I think they would almost kill each other, and then realise there is no point, and, as PF said, drink to badassery.

Ill go with Jonson since he was a Spartan 1.

Good old fashioned barfght between these two?

I have to go with Hoffman. Johnson is a bigger badass, but he’s more the gun-toting, cock-sure badass. Hoffman looks like a man who’d go 13 rounds with a gorilla and still come out on top.

Hmm…I’m not sure, but I’ll lean towards Johnson since I’m more familiar with him.

Didn’t Master Chief say he was the toughest soldier he had ever seen?

Johnson all the way . I doubt even Victor could fight his way out of
a flood infestation.And Johnson is over 80 years old .really !!!
Also he’s a spartan 1 and has delt with humans . Im pretty sure johnson is stronger given that he received augmentations due to being a spatran 1 . It says so on halopedia .

@ orpheus12

That doesn’t mater if Hoffman decides to strike first with a bottle.

Besides, I regard it as a drawn.

@ O.G.F.

The same can be said of Hoffman, hes a hands on commander and the fact he even lived through the hell that was E-Day speaks of his capacity.

I do believe that Johnson’s a tougher son-of-a… but that’s not the point of this post.

@Orpheus + Overpowered Guest
I’m just curious as to where you guys ever see Johnson as a ‘Spartan I’. Those ‘Spartan I’s you speak of are the Spartans from Sparta…made famous in the Battle of Thermopylae.

Actually,i believe the Sparta Spartans are just called Spartans.

“Actually,i believe the Sparta Spartans are just called Spartans.”

Or the Badass I (Badassery has evolved over the ages, but we can most clearly see it first, in the Spartans from Sparta!)

- the pondering fool

Johnson took part in project orion which made him stronger and faster.

If it’s a bar fight, wouldn’t they both be unarmed and unarmored?

John got a highly flammable alien to light his cigar. What is more b-a then that? Besides, these two would probley drink it out, not duke it out.

@ Jwlynas

Probably because he actually survived E-Day (A very big accomplishment) and without his direct command and leadership… the Gears would have been fucked 20 times over by now.

- Besides, I can see Sargent talking shit about how cool he is, how the marines are the best (BS in Halo), blah blah blah. While the Hoff just sits there,makes no indications or warnings, calmly picks up a bottle and breaks it into Sargent’s face. Then,and only then will Victor pick up Sargent and defenestrate him.

“Lets throw a new twist on it.

Johnson = Sergeant

Hoffman = General (See the four stars on his collar)

Johnson is outranked here. And these guys aren’t in armies where you get promoted for being good at paperwork.”

But Johnson was there when the Human-Covenant war began, and when it ended (Inless the brutes are still out there fighting for the covenant.).

I still think Johnson still has this. If he hadn’t died on the Ark i could see him becoming general of the Entire UNSCDF forces. Plus he still has some minor regenerative powers as well.

Though Hoffman might have slightly more experience than Johnson, but not enough to simply trash Johnson like some grandmaster vs. pupil. But, Johnson’s physical abilities (being a Spartan I for ONI) gives him the advantage over Hoffman, who is well past his prime. I would have to give it to Johnson in the end…..but i still want to see who could drink the most gin.

- the pondering fool

@ Mega

” Now he is a tough man but he isn’t a Marine Sergeant Major or a US Army Staff Sergeant. ”

- Not tough? He willing chose to go along with a plan to fire bomb almost his entire race to oblivion along with his wife and sister. The he successful lead the remaining humans against an overwhelming Locust enemy and being a front line combatant several times. That is tough in my book. Did you even read your own links?

@ PF

” But, Johnson’s physical abilities (being a Spartan I for ONI) gives him the advantage over Hoffman, who is well past his prime. I would have to give it to Johnson in the end…..but i still want to see who could drink the most gin. ”

- Sure he’s past his prime, but don’t forget that his suit has servos in it to give him increased strength and the fact that he is still in top physical condition. Just because he’s over the hill doesn’t count him out (see Rambo 5 and Rocky Balboa).

@ Jwlynas

- I do believe that Johnson will initiate the fight with trash talk, but Hoffman will deliver the first strike.

@ Hotshot

He “may” be stronger, but that doesn’t matter if you inadvertently start the fight with trash talk and the opponent responds by blinding you with a glass bottle to the face and eyes.

” but he is still stronger than any normal human.” – See servos in armor.

I don’t really see how a bottle is going to really hurt johnson .
He’s taken worst like taking a beating from a 9 foot tall ape . Aka brute cheiftan .

“Just because he’s over the hill doesn’t count him out (see Rambo 5 and Rocky Balboa).”

I went to the city of Philly, and stayed over a friend and of course, being a Brit, they made me watch all 6 Rocky movies. But didn’t Rocky lose in the last one (when he was “old guy” facing the champ?). Still, it was quite a good movie (at least, for me). Still leaning towards Johnson…..is this match in full battle armor, or just a day off, two guys hanging in the pub?

- the pondering fool

@Kenny
The part where it says Eyes & face = Ouch
Arn’t the eyes part of the face . I mean if thay’re removed then they would’t be part of the face . Any how you did asked .

But seriously though Johnson does have enhanced reflexes due to his augmentations , what’s stopping him from dodging it

@ Orpheus12

1 – Congrats on a epic tripost.
2 – Eyes & Face refers the the fact that the bottle would his a certain part of the face while also hitting the general overall face.
3 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb0ENiXxFIs (Johnson does have some awesome reflexes doesn’t he.)

@ Mega

Thank you for a post that really holds no merit for Hoffman as he does quite a bit of his own dirty work.

If you would actually read my posts, you would see that I’m not disputing that.
Yes Johnson has enhancements… which are not really discussed in your links… just that he has enhancements… very weak description to say the least.

Also heres an exert of your own words that describes tough : “He is a General of COG Military. But you don’t become an officer because your tough much less a General. You become an officer by showing that you can lead men and make hard choses.”

- You CHOOSE to describe being an officer as being more than tough, its about leadership and making hard decisions. I responded in kind by listing how Hoffman is indeed an officer of the highest caliber, and therefore tough as required by your logic, by giving notable examples of both of your requirements. The fact that you responded that I was “foolish”to use such thing in proving that Hoffman is tough shows that you neither read my comments correctly nor understand your own stance in previous comments.

Now he is a tough man but he isn’t a Marine Sergeant Major or a US Army Staff Sergeant.

Wow…. Johnson has a debilitating disease that would have eventually killed him for not his untimely demise at the hands of a flying ball. That really helps him here.

Your post makes little sense as it attacks a stance I’ve never taken and lists a disease as a…. strength???

Johnson may be a superior combatant in terms of experience, but Hoffman has seen his fair share of hell in the Pendulum Wars and the Locust Wars. The issue I’m supporting is that Sargent will initiate the fight with his trash talk, which seems to make up half his dialog, and Hoffman will respond in his fashion. He will sit there calmly, pick up any weapon close at hand, place a critical first strike to then dominate the rest of the fight.

You know what I see? more textures on hoffman. polygons on johnson

Bungie Is CRAP at making faces.

Comical as in I’ll laugh my ass of at the guys that are sometimes missing a jawbone…

@ Mega

You are once again denying that your post implies that to be a superior officer you need to be tough, make hard decisions, and have leadership qualities. I gave adequate examples of the last two and then you went all psycho when I did as you said Hoffman maybe tough, but did not have the last two items I clarified.

“So you’re telling me you missed this line” – I didn’t miss it, it just hold no real merit to list a disease the man may have or not have as part of the debate. The project ORION I already read, but I must say the fact they lack any real data as how Johnson was enhanced is kinda weak…. just that he was.

” You see I thought you would have pick that up but you didn’t and I’m very disappointed in you. Even more so when you fail to understand the fact that if a Army General faced off against a Marine Corps Sergeant Major you always bet on the Sergeant Major that is simple military logic. ”

– So you claim that a Marine Corps Sargent Major is simply tougher than a COG General….. because it is common logic. Please, explain to me how a he is simply tougher because of his training? The COG Army is built on a tradition of fighting a 87 year long war and has a boot camp that turns their soldiers into literal slabs of muscle and indoctrination, which Hoffman was apart of. To just go “DA SARGENT IS DA BEST BECAUSE HE IS A MARINE!!!!!” Holds no real weight here as I can argue that a training program and a life time of war has produced soldiers that are even better than regular marines.

” In short you misunderstand everything I said and because you failed to understand my comment is more of a misunderstanding on your part than anything. However I will admit I should have separated my comments to avoided future misunderstanding. ” – I’m sure you will. The fact that I couldn’t “catch your drift” maybe your fault, not mine.

@ Orpheus

While I don’t doubt that Sargent Johnson has enhancements… the specific enhancements are not addressed in Halopedia and for that reason you can’t really source as saying he has increased reflexes.

Besides, I see the two beating the shit out of each other until they call a truce and decide to bring out the vodka and their favorite soldier songs.

There would be some explaining to do the next day concerning why theres a hole in the planet where the bar was, why the local supply of beer is completely gone, and why the local supply of drunks are all dead.

@ PF

True… but I’m saying that Hoffman would strike first because of Johnson’s usual bravado and that might make all the difference.

“So you claim that a Marine Corps Sargent Major is simply tougher than a COG General….. ”

Kenny do you realize how foolish that statement is. First off quit misspelling Sergeant when you do you disrespect the rank. Also the UNSC Marine Corps is based on the US Marine Corps the toughest in the world and I’m sorry dude but the COG is weak when compared to the UNSC Marine Corps. A Sergeant Major in the Marine Corps is the head gunt and is the toughest son of bitch on the planet. Also if you knew anything about the real military that the rank of Sergeant Major is one of the hardest ranks to get. You have a better chance of becoming a Lieutenant or Captain or any of the officer ranks even more so in the Marine Corps. Hell most junior officers take orders from the Sergeant Major. It’s a special rank that is only given to a few the best of the best. Men in their top physical condition. Generals and Colonels are the ones how tell them where to go and what to do. But it is the Sergeant Major who gets the men there and spile the blood of friend and foe alike.

And Kenny you and I have been fooled neither of us has read his profile. Hoffman isn’t a General he is a Colonel. It seems in the COG military they use European style rank Insignia. Look at the Czech Republic, Italy, and Turkey Colonel insignia they almost match Hoffman’s Colonel insignia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronel_(rank)

“I didn’t miss it, it just hold no real merit to list a disease the man may have or not have as part of the debate. The project ORION I already read, but I must say the fact they lack any real data as how Johnson was enhanced is kinda weak…. just that he was. ”

Kenny Why do I always give you too much credit I guess I’m forced to spoon feed you this info. Given the fact that Johnson was apart of the Office of Naval Intelligence Naval Special Warfare program. Which is UNSC Special Forces and given the that he fought through the whole war from beginning to end. IF that doesn’t make him the tough SOB in the universe than nothing will.

“You are once again denying that your post implies that to be a superior officer you need to be tough, make hard decisions, and have leadership qualities. I gave adequate examples of the last two and then you went all psycho when I did as you said Hoffman maybe tough, but did not have the last two items I clarified. ”

First off Kenny I was drunk not Psycho there is a differences. Like there is a differences between a Ruthless Officer and a Tough Officer again you mixed the two together why I don’t know maybe because of your young you can’t tell the difference yet or your lack of knowledge of Military History or you have your head jammed up your ass. But at this time I’m going with the “your young” statement. By your statement in Comment 44

“Not tough? He willing chose to go along with a plan to fire bomb almost his entire race to oblivion along with his wife and sister”

That doesn’t not make him a tough officer it makes him a ruthless officer. Again there is a differences. A ruthless officer orders me to their deaths and sits on his ass and enjoy the show. While a Tough officer or a Sergeant Major is in the thick of it the whole time and is the last to pull back. Maybe now you understand the difference between the two types of officers and NCOs. Also forgot to add that Colonels are too far away from the bullets to get hit while the Sergeant Major is much closer to the bullets.

Which was my orginal topic I was rising that you forced me off of. All I was doing was showing that because Hoffman was a higher rank doesn’t mean he is tougher. If anything it shows me that he was more ruthless than tough.

Also Kenny again your scenario it is based on CIS, Character Induced Stupidity and has zero merit in this fight even if it is at a bar. But I will say this if they drink Moonshine both of their asses will be on the floor.

@ Kenny

It seems to that what is happening here is an issue of miscommunication both of us has failed to get what the other is saying.

Comment 41 was a respond to Comment 33 which said

“Lets throw a new twist on it.

Johnson = Sergeant

Hoffman = General (See the four stars on his collar)

Johnson is outranked here. And these guys aren’t in armies where you get promoted for being good at paperwork.”

All I mean to say was because Hoffman was a General (Even though in truth he is a Colonel) doesn’t mean he is a tougher and better fighter. While a Sergeant Major is a tougher and better fighter. That was all I was saying.

In comment 55 I responded to one of the things you said. Of the examples you gave out for some reason this one stand out more than the others

“Not tough? He willing chose to go along with a plan to fire bomb almost his entire race to oblivion along with his wife and sister”

That is not the charactortics (I know I misspelled it.) of a tough officer. But it is the charactortics of a Ruthless Officer which there is a difference between the two which I stated in the last comment so I’m not going to repeat myself.

“The COG military has a proud tradition of engaging in near constant total war for almost ninety years.”

So was the French and the English during the Hundred Year’ War and both sides were weaken to the point Dukedoms and Principalities around the area started becoming stronger because France and England were weaken because of a hundred years of total war both countries were weaken. Granted France was the one decleared the victor however they had suffered greatly as well. Also granted militarily, it saw the introduction of new weapons and tactics, which eroded the older system of feudal armies dominated by heavy cavalry. However by the end of the war both Armies where barely combat effective to say the least.

And also to the modern battlefields in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan the Soviets send in elite airborne units and Spetsnaz to conquer the country and put in place a Socialist “Republic” to replace the old government. These elite Spetsnaz units were unable to defeat by the Mujahideen and in many engagements the Spetsnaz who like the COG developed a culture of proud warriors that are fully motivated and indoctrinated in the art of war were defeated by the Mujahideen. While fastforward US Marines who are not trained like COG or Spetsnaz are fairing far better than Soviets. You see Kenny History is my judge that is how I pick the winners on this site and way I’m not so easily impressed.

“- Do you want us to agree to disagree or you want this to continue?”

But like I said earier this is a case of miscommunication so I will agree to disagree on all points. But I will disagree with your scenario due to the fact that it is based on CIS, Character Induced Stupidity.

@ orphues12

Dare I ask where in the hell this was ever stated?

“way I’m not so easily impressed”

I meant to say why I’m not so easily impressed

*tosses two faced quarter into the air* Oh… HEADS! YOU BOTH LOSE!!!

“tosses two faced quarter into the air* Oh… HEADS! YOU BOTH LOSE!!!”

You I have never senn to two faced coin before

“*tosses two faced quarter into the air* Oh… HEADS! YOU BOTH LOSE!!!”

Darn, he tricked us again…..I am going to have to get my lawyer now….lost £4000 on that bet……..

- the pondering fool

I really don’t know who’d win in this fight. Johnson may be tough and a Spartan 1, but that does not mean he can automatically beat Col. Victor Hoffman. Remember, the Spartan 1 project crashed an burned, having to high a mortality rate. Plus the descriptions of the augmentations are practically none existent so you can’t really judge how much stronger Johnson is. Btw those who thought Hoffman was a general should fell pretty dumb considering they refer to him as Col. Hoffman several times in the games.

Also, I used to like Johnson until Bungie decided to make him a Spartan 1. Apparently only specially augmented people, some with super-special-awesome armor made just for them that would kill a lesser man, are allowed to kick ass, while all the normal people get to die. This is one reason I’ve started seperating myself from Halo. Back in the first game. Sgt. A.J. Johnson was just a regular marine who kicked ass. Now he’s a prototype super-soldier with limited regenerative abilities. Not as nearly as impressive.

hoff looks like he has a lot more muscle, but that might just be the COG uniform speaking.

idk much about hoff, but as johnson was the only awesome human character in the halo series (master chief sucks) i will go with him.

what johnson has done:
survived uncounted encounters with the flood (without wearing protection)
(*i know he has a condition that renders him unifectable but…meh)
escaped an exploding HALO ring, saving the lives of a few marines
helped capture a covenant ship (i think)
first human to kill a covenant
hugged an elite
activated a button that set in motion the death of life as we know it
got his ass kicked by a lightbulb

what hoff has done:

…

i dont know…

Man-with-the-answers, if you could just give us a list of the augmentations a S1 has and just how much better they increase the S1’s performance, we’d love it. Simply saying he’s augmented doesn’t mean he’s automatically stronger.