The Tau Vs The Covenant

Belisaurius

September 8, 2009
#1

I’d find a way into the Admech first chance I get.

Sure, now im an unholy monstrosity of meat and metal, but I’ve got a good chance at long life, a steady job at something useful, and a decent chance at progressing up the ranks.

Kenny C.

September 8, 2009
#2

@ Belisaurius

For once, I agree with you.

L-W

September 8, 2009
#3

The key here is standardization, how do you equip a trillion man army with the best weapons available when most platoons and regiments are hundreds of light years apart?

The Lasgun is actually a pretty awesome weapon, with individual pulses being ten times more powerful than a hand grenade at even low powered shots and so cheap and easy to manufacture that even the most backwater of planets can mass produce them from very basic materials.

Unfortunately, it just so happens that every other faction likes to standardize their troops with molecule thin shurikens, rocket propelled self-detonating .75 caliber bullets, plasma cannons, flesh eating maggots, holy napalm, daemon spirit spitting handguns, lava and even the tears of the God Emperor himself. In comparison, even an uber laser gun appears to be a futile gesture.

Diana

September 8, 2009
#4

“The key here is standardization, how do you equip a trillion man army with the best weapons available when most platoons and regiments are hundreds of light years apart?”

Light Speed travel and galactic spread of weapon manufacturing will do.

Kenny C.

September 8, 2009
#5

Neither would do very well in the Imperium

- Light Speed Travel – The Warp is Finicky

- Weapons manufacturing – The Imperium’s mechanics haven’t changed anything for the part ten thousand years.

Diana

September 8, 2009
#6

Warp travel is different from Light Speed Travel(That is to say from the perspective of W40K)

Kenny C.

September 8, 2009
#7

See second dash for reason why Imperium has no light speed.

L-W

September 8, 2009
#8

“Light Speed travel and galactic spread of weapon manufacturing will do.”

Not when you have to keep the military standard equal in a ground army compromised of trillions of soldiers.

Even the US military struggles to standardize her few hundred thousand troops currently in service, extrapolating this by several billion orders of magnitude is a logistical nightmare to even the number crunching machine that is the Imperium.

Diana

September 8, 2009
#9

@L-W

Lets just say that not every soldier is worth a thousand grand to be equip with standard issues. And not all of the money of taxpayers goes to the highest bidder(Military equipment manufacturers)

L-W

September 8, 2009
#10

That’s what standardization means.

Jwlynas

September 8, 2009
#11

“4) They have a good sniper rifle. And as every student of history knows, wars are won and lost on the basis of who has the better sniper rifle, not on the basis of something as inconsequential as overwhelming numerical, technological, and logistical superiority.”

Except of course that good sniper fire is all it takes to turn the Tau from organised fire teams and expert manouvers to disorganised and fleeing. An Ethereals death is a HUGE morale blow to the Tau, and with flying snipers who can get into a good firing position whatever happens, and with the ethereals having robes, no head protection and no personalised shielding, all it will take is one good shot and the Tau, at least the Tau under that ethereals leadership, will scatter.

Considering all Tau troops barring those under Commander Farsights command, are under the direct control of an Ethereal, that sort of advantage can’t be ignored.

The Covenant may have the same issue with the Prophets, but they at least have shielding and the intelligence enough to stay off the front lines.

As to the teleportation, Its not so much that as some sort of gravity well… but whatever it is that the covenant use to get ground troops from ships in space to the ground without breaking bones or having easily shot down troop carriers.

Matapiojo

September 8, 2009
#12

“The Covenant may have the same issue with the Prophets, but they at least have shielding and the intelligence enough to stay off the front lines.”

You know, there are such things as Shield Drones…

Diana

September 8, 2009
#13

@L-W

Yes! At last I got the point! Now I know that my mind is not dried up…

“Never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder” – CoD 4

L-W

September 8, 2009
#14

1) Once again, you seem to have a misconceived notion that a sniper is so tactically relevant that they forever alter the tide of warfare in lieu of dozens of other far more important factors, which they do not. Whilst the assassination of political leaders is no doubt a bonus to the opposition, lone black ops missions are inconsequential in comparison overwhelming numerical, technological, and logistical superiority.

Anyone with even a minor understanding of military history could tell you that.

2) Ah, the classic “if I kill the Ethereal, I automatically win” tabletop gambit. Unfortunately the relevance of this game play mechanic to fluff is equal to that of the 20% Necron phase rule. A common misconception of the Tau army is that without the Ethereal that was in the space of that horrid mangled corpse five seconds ago, the tau will simply up and run. Not true at all.

As Commander Shas’O Vior’la Shovah Kais Mont’yr demonstrated during the Damocles Crusade, in the absence of the Ethereal, nearby Tau will regain their independence and free will, but their force of discipline (the Fire Caste have trained from birth onwards) keeps them in place. Without the oppressive will of the Ethereals, Tau warriors will begin to behave independently and act on their best judgment and intuition. They do not (I repeat), they do not run around like headless Chickens, the Tau aren’t Grunts after all.

Don’t panic, this is a perfectly healthy and often necessary response from a trained soldier, one that saves lives as a result.

Ultimately though this all assumes that an Ethereal is going to stand right in the open at all times, rather than coordinating or observing Tau forces from the general safety of the rear lines, a bunker or a command vehicle.

3) That’s the gravity lift you refer to, which to me seems like less of a logical choice. Whereas dropships can disperse and behave independently (guaranteeing that someone, somewhere gets through), a Covenant Cruiser dropping into low orbit is just too much of a tempting target for any Tau forces nearby.

The moment one of these things parks too close to start disgorging troops, the Tau fighters and bombers such as the Tiger Shark or the AX-10 are going to start playing target practice with an bulbous oversized target. Never mind the fact that the sky will be swarming with Manta fighters armed with dedicated anti-Titan weapons reay to pick off capital ships at a moments notice.

Belisaurius

September 8, 2009
#15

I wonder how broadsides would far against a phantom…

Jwlynas

September 8, 2009
#16

“As Commander Shas’O Vior’la Shovah Kais Mont’yr demonstrated during the Damocles Crusade, in the absence of the Ethereal, nearby Tau will regain their independence and free will, but their force of discipline (the Fire Caste have trained from birth onwards) keeps them in place. Without the oppressive will of the Ethereals, Tau warriors will begin to behave independently and act on their best judgment and intuition. They do not (I repeat), they do not run around like headless Chickens, the Tau aren’t Grunts after all.”

The exception does not prove the rule. That particular commander is a hasty, aggressive combatent, with a mysterious weapon of unknown origins (That looks incredibly egyptian and archaic, and frankly tzeentchian, but this is hardly the place to debate it) and a large preference close quarters combat. Were all Tau commanders like him, Ethereals would be obsolete, but then again, the Tau would be a hugely different army. As it is, they have a very high standing, and in some cases their defeat results in the routing of the whole tau war effort.

“You know, there are such things as Shield Drones…”

Sniper drones too, and its odd that no-one mentions them as a counter to the Covenant Jackals. However shield drones are linked to battlesuits and drone commanders. Ethereals, barring the lead Ethereal (name escapes me at the moment… he has a floating chair and is for all intents and purposes a Tau prophet of truth.) don’t use them, preferring instead to have their bodyguards be the shields.

“3) That’s the gravity lift you refer to, which to me seems like less of a logical choice. ”

Ah, my thanks, forgot the name. While its far from perfect, its still a fine way to deliver troops. Land it somewhere with cover, disgorge troops, let them do some footslogging and attack from a flank. its hardly a genius level tactic, so I’m sure the elites can manage to use it.

Tau stealth suits are generally more scouting parties than offensive weapons. They are wholly capable at offense, but if it comes tot hat then somethings gone wrong.

L-W

September 8, 2009
#17

1) “I wonder how broadsides would far against a phantom…”

If a 90mm tank round can punch a hole through a Phantom, a single broadside is literally going to turn it inside out due to the sheer force of the propellant created by a slug moving at relativistic velocities through the hull of a vessel.

Imagine if you will the contents of a box getting sucked through a small penny sized hole, and you gain a decent image of what would happen to a Phantom.

2) Hardly an exception to the rule, because it demonstrates that even without the overt psychic presence of the Ethereal in question (as claimed by the Fire Warrior novel), Tau soldiers can still maintain discipline on a squad based level, without losing their morale all together. The loss of the Ethereal merely grants the Tau the initiative on an individual basis, it doesn’t rob them of their will to live.

Although the sight of even the largest and most heavily armoured Covenant troops turning into a charred heap of briquettes as a result of a single burst from the standard issue Pulse rifle would be more of a morale booster than anything else.

3) A 1.7km vessel generally doesn’t posses a low profile, or offer much in terms of subtlety, does it? Do you really think that a Covenant warship is going to slip past the general orbital superiority of the Tau navy without alerting it’s presence to potential swarms of atmospheric fighters capable of stellar interdiction speeds, or that any landing attempt won’t suffer heavy casualties as a result?

As I said, the most logical solution would be to deploy and scatter Phantoms over a wide area, and enough of them to ensure that the Tau air force doesn’t turn entire legions into ionized scrap as a result. Whilst they transport fewer troops into a specific region, their low profile would make them harder targets; whereas dropping a Capital ship onto a planet (the UNSC lacked the firepower to repel this kind of incursion – the Tau don’t) is the equivalent of painting an Elephant luminous green and asking poachers to take pot shots at it.

4) The stealth technology of either party is not fit for direct battlefield confrontations, in fact the entire idea is so absurd that it goes entirely against the purpose of the technology in the first place.

As I said before, the Tau are the worst possible enemy for the Covenant to face: its strengths (superior firepower, disciplined troops, rugged and heavily armed warships, robust and mature technologies with the common implementation of AI, highly mobile ground forces capable of rapid deployment) play directly to the Covenant weaknesses (almost complete dependence upon orbital superiority, technologies with built-in weaknesses such as their inability to harness the true potential of their imitated firearms, poorly armoured and egg shell thin warships, reliance on cannon fodder, limited mobility, zero initiative or AI assistance). The key here is mobility, the Covenant work best against bogged down or entrenched positions where they can overwhelm them with sheer brute force alone, Tau doctrine is designed for mobility, thus making them a particularly tough army to face off against.

Jwlynas

September 8, 2009
#18

Out of curiousity, what would then be the covenants strengths?

Ah dear, another defeat for the underdogs I fear.

One day they’ll come out on top. One day

megafire

September 8, 2009
#19

Well, in their own universe, it would be brute force, superior technology and firepower, air superiority ant the likes.

Against the Tau… I’d say brute force…

Sapper007

September 8, 2009
#20

@ L-W agreed. But who is the agressor? that would weigh heavily on tactic’s and planning and defense…

So the question to be asked is who’s fleet can logically get to the other planet faster?

Kenny C.

September 8, 2009
#21

@ Megafire

Brute force…ha.. ha ha … HA HAA HAHAAHHAAAAA… man that is good!

See Greater Knarloc.

L-W

September 8, 2009
#22

He’s right through, the one tactic the Covenant have always fallen back on was sheer brute force and brute force alone.

During the war of the Sangheili and the San ‘Shyuum, the latter used their captured Dreadnought to smash through enemy lines, the Grunt rebellion was stymied with a violent oppression that was followed by years of experimental eugenics, the Hunters were tamed with the threat of orbital bombardment, the Brutes fell through several technological tiers as a result of a nuclear civil war and the war with humanity proved that in lieu of subtlety, the Covenant prefer to just smash through UNSC defences head on and overwhelm planetary forces before turning the crust into glass.

L-W

September 8, 2009
#23

On the subject of Covenant firepower, I posted some calculations on a previous thread. Here they are if anyone is interested:

During Halo: First Strike, an asteroid three kilometers in diameter is struck by a Covenant energy beam, which according to the text took several seconds to bore a hole through the main structure and shatter the remainder, leaving behind several hundred tonnes of visibly ejected globules (Presumably a combination of molten iron).

The passage says the asteroid was shattered through “uneven internal heating”, ie thermal expansion. If the beam had just punched straight through it wouldn’t have fractured through “uneven internal heating”, it would have exploded due to shock. We don’t get a beam punching through, shocking the surrounding rock and causing it to fracture. We know the asteroid wasn’t shocked, so the beam can’t have cut through the rock faster than the speed of sound in iron. This puts a burn time of 0.6s as the absolute minimum. 0.6s of contact with a 500 gigaton beam should have delivered 250 gigatons into the rock. More than enough to completely vapourise it with a surplus of excess energy to spare.

We get a beam striking the asteroid, its surface being “heated to orange, yellow, and then white,”, note that it takes a noticable amount of time to change through the colours, the asteroid spraying molten debris long enough for its rotation to change, the beam cutting through a “wide arc” of the asteroid, and then emerging from the other side. There are five visibly distinct phases there, orange, yellow, white, rotating, and finally exploded.

Let’s do that in more detail. We know the asteroid was white hot in patches. This gives a temperature of 6500K. From this we can work out the average KE per mole, and by extension, the momentum of ejected gasses. In a best case scenario, this works out at 2500kgm/s per kilogram. The moment of inertia of the asteroid is 10^17kgm^2. The average moment generated by a kilogram of ejecta will be 1,875,000kgm^2/s (well, actually it’ll be less than that, because it’s not all concentrated into a tangential jet, but that’s just another thing that makes this calc rather conservative), meaning 5.3*10^10kg needs to be ejected in this fashion per radian/sec of momentum change. That’s half the total mass of the asteroid. Let’s assume a single degree per second of rotation due to the ejected mass. That’s visible, but practically crawling around, it being six times slower than the second hand on a watch. Still need to eject 10^9kg of material. Let’s assume a 5m wide area. Given that the beam is supposed to be “laser fine”, this again is very conservative. This would require vapourising down to a depth of 2 km. Problem: The average speed of the ejecta was only 3km/s. With an absolute lower limit of 0.4s to burn down to a depth of 2km, it would still have taken another 0.66s for the last of it to escape, meaning a contact time of 1.07s is a very conservative lower limit. Oh, look, you’ve just dumped over 500 gigatons into a rock that only takes 33 GT to shatter. The gunner was Cortana. An AI who was described as using plasma beams “like a scalpel”. “Like a scalpel” implies very fine control, ie that she turned off the beam the moment it penetrated with very little waste.

The asteroid was the size of the firing ship, and had a much higher moment of inertia. If the plasma did have significant momentum, we’d see ships firing it be pushed around. Quite noticeably. The impulse required to duplicate the asteroid-spinning is enough to make a ship of that size recoil at 800m/s (assuming only 90% empty space, and a density of iron, which given how unfeasibly spacious Covenant ships are is something of an underestimate). We don’t see Covenant ships firing plasma beams being pushed around or put into spins by the recoil, even when they’re firing off axis, so they don’t have enough recoil to matter.

Quite handily, this actually puts a 16.5GT/s upper limit on the firepower of that beam, with an excess of 27 megatons to shatter the asteroid itself.

- – -

Let’s not forget that this was a Cortana enhanced beam designed for optimum efficiency (according to her, the Covenant were neglecting the optimize the brute firepower of their plasma cannons to any degree), as earlier in the novel the Ascendant Justice is surrounded by four Covenant cruisers, two of which she detonates from a lancing strike from the laser like plasma weapons similar to the energy projector, which shares properties similar to the beam used to cut through the asteroid.

Earlier it is demonstrated that the Ascendant Justice was resistant to several plasma torpedoes, and was reduced to only 67% of her shield capacity before Cortana took control and began to steer the ship towards Threshold, when another cluster of torpedoes fired from the pursuing covenant dropped the shields, gutting parts of the hull.

the_man_with The_Answers

September 12, 2009
#24

Is there any ground battle where the covenant could win besides outnubering their enemy 4-1?

Kenny C.

September 12, 2009
#25

@ the_man_with_the_Answers

No…. just no.

Sean0931

September 13, 2009
#26

“As I said before, the Tau are the worst possible enemy for the Covenant to face”

Qualitatively, I agree with you, though quantitatively, there are far worse enemies for them to face. The Imperium, for example.

L-W

September 14, 2009
#27

Heck, throw in the Culture, the Xelee, the Q, the Cosmocrats, Downstreamers and the Time Lords and you’ll have one hell of a shin dig, but that’s not the point of the statement.

It’s to illustrate that from a tactical and strategic standpoint, Covenant strengths are nerfed by those of the Tau; why would I include other civilizations when the purpose of this thread is to discuss only the two presented?

Sean0931

September 14, 2009
#28

Heck, throw in the Culture, the Xelee, the Q, the Cosmocrats, Downstreamers and the Time Lords and you’ll have one hell of a shin dig, but that’s not the point of the statement.”

Neither was it the point of mine. I was stating that, while the Tau may have strengths against the Covenant, there are races in 40k which would be far more deadly. Hence the “qualitatively, not quantitatively”. I thought it should be reasonably easy to work out I was saying that other races in the 40k universe would be far more deadly. The Imperium, for example.

“It’s to illustrate that from a tactical and strategic standpoint, Covenant strengths are nerfed by those of the Tau; why would I include other civilizations when the purpose of this thread is to discuss only the two presented?”

Wait a minute, hold on. You said that “the Tau are the worst possible enemy for the Covenant to face”. What was that statement supposed to say then? That the Tau were the worst race the Covenant could face from a choice of… the Tau?

the_man_with The_Answers

September 14, 2009
#29

I don’t think the Tau are the wost for the Covenant to face, though they are high up there. Wouldn’t the Imperium be much worse of an enemy to face?

L-W

September 16, 2009
#30

“Wait a minute, hold on. You said that “the Tau are the worst possible enemy for the Covenant to face”. What was that statement supposed to say then? That the Tau were the worst race the Covenant could face from a choice of… the Tau?”

Out of the races the Covenant HAVE canonically faced in the past and will face in this battle (I though this point was easy to understand by the fact that I surmised previous Covenant battle tactics with other races), whether they were the UNSC, the Hunters or each other, the Tau are the worst opponent that they can face off against on that list for precisely the reasons that I stated.

Sure you can discuss the Imperium, but who is talking about the Imperium here? In fact I made this point quite clear in posts #122 and #117, for every advantage that the Covenant possessed within their respective universe, they will lose to the Tau. It’s a simple concept really.

- – -

I could also go on to say that the Kryptonians defeat the Covenant, or the Tyranids, the Night Sisters, the Empire, the Burning Legion, Photino Birds, Andalites, the Vogons, DOOP, the Replicators, the Vong, the Eternals, the Golden Tribe, the Executioners, the Kiint, the Morveks, the Noocytes, the Vorlons, the Jurai, the Ori etc. etc. blah. blah.

It just gets to a point where banality becomes less and less of a virtue in debates.

Black Hand

September 16, 2009
#31

The covenant will embrace space communism and their numbers mysteriously decreasing within the next 50 years the tau will outnumber other covenant species with the possible exception of the grunts and hunters.

We could pit the covenant against stargate earth at the start of the series for them to finally be on the advantage?

i dunno

September 19, 2009
#32

the covenant have the advantedge of melee
both the brutes and elites have some serious melee handiwork going forward
of course, the kroot arent too shabby as far as melee goes.

range: the covies have the fast firing but sh*t plasma weapons, after halo one the plasma pistol just sucks. the only advantedge the covenant have at range are

vehicles: the tau have hover tanks, as do the covies. the tau have f*cking railguns mounted on their tanks, the covenant have plasma mortars, which are ok

air support: the tau have the fast, heavily armed, and large barracuda. the covenant have the small, lightly armed , fun to drive banshee.

the ONLY way the covenant can win would be to drop thousands of elites from orbit right on top of the tau. and that brings me to space, the tau are terrible at naval combat, it took them in excess of 1000 years to build up a fleet, the imperium destroyed a lot of it in months. the covenant have respectable fleet that smashed UNSC resistance at almost every battle.

tau: land victory
covenant: space victory

Kenny C.

September 19, 2009
#33

@ i dunno

” the ONLY way the covenant can win would be to drop thousands of elites from orbit right on top of the tau ” – Which might be difficult considering the Covenant’s current political landscape.

” vehicles: the tau have hover tanks, as do the covies. the tau have f*cking railguns mounted on their tanks, the covenant have plasma mortars, which are ok ” – You forgot the kick ass battle suits… and the Greater Knarloc.

” the tau are terrible at naval combat, ” – Terrible? They were outnumbered for Christ sakes and the fact that they could even stand against an Imperial Fleet makes them vastly superior to the Covenant’s fleets.

” of course, the kroot arent too shabby as far as melee goes. ” – Believe me, they would beat the shit of the Covenant if it went Hand to hand. The Kroot have been able to go toe to toe with the Orks, which is quite a feat considering the capablity of the average ork to smash heads around.

Sean0931

September 20, 2009
#34

“Out of the races the Covenant HAVE canonically faced in the past and will face in this battle (I though this point was easy to understand by the fact that I surmised previous Covenant battle tactics with other races), whether they were the UNSC, the Hunters or each other, the Tau are the worst opponent that they can face off against on that list for precisely the reasons that I stated.”

So a choice from; the Tau, the UNSC and the Flood? A rather pathetic list, wouldn’t you say?

I’d say that the flood were a far greater threat, anyway. If it weren’t for the Deus Ex Mechanica of the Halos and many other plot devices, the Covenant would have been utterly destroyed by the flood in short notice.
“Sure you can discuss the Imperium, but who is talking about the Imperium here?

Me.

“In fact I made this point quite clear in posts #122 and #117, for every advantage that the Covenant possessed within their respective universe, they will lose to the Tau. It’s a simple concept really.”

That’s nice, and I agree with you, but what has this got to do with my post?

“I could also go on to say that the Kryptonians defeat the Covenant, or the Tyranids, the Night Sisters, the Empire, the Burning Legion, Photino Birds, Andalites, the Vogons, DOOP, the Replicators, the Vong, the Eternals, the Golden Tribe, the Executioners, the Kiint, the Morveks, the Noocytes, the Vorlons, the Jurai, the Ori etc. etc. blah. blah.

It just gets to a point where banality becomes less and less of a virtue in debates.”

Again, what’s the point? I was saying that, while qualitatively (as in their inherent qualities, not in their pound-for-pound power) the Tau are indeed suited for combat with the Covenant, in actuality there are far more deadly enemies in 40k. And your problem with this is?

i dunno

September 20, 2009
#35

i always think of the covies in a pre schism context, when the elites were evil and the brutes were unheard of, i mean the halo 1 covenant. damn, those were the days…

even if the tau were outnumbered by the IOM navy, they were still developing naval warfare.

and since when was the greater knarlock a vehicle?! and the battlesuits sort of bridge the cap between infantry and vehicle.
kroot = instant win

about half the enemies the tau face would be capable of beating the living crap out of the entire covenant army in about a day, so i think we can say that the tau win this one.

Kenny C.

September 20, 2009
#36

@ i dunno

” since when was the greater knarlock a vehicle? ” -Since Dawn of War Dark Crusade, bitch.

Sean0931

September 21, 2009
#37

“@ i dunno

” since when was the greater knarlock a vehicle? ” -Since Dawn of War Dark Crusade, bitch.”

Because Daemon armour was completely fucking overpowered. Damn DW1 Squiggoths.

Tom

October 2, 2009
#38

Just a note here – in the games the effectiveness of covenant plasma weaponry is very downplayed. A shade turret will tear a human apart (as in 2 parts, from 1 shot)

Also a Human SMAC is 51 Gigaton and it can shoot straight through a covenant capital ship.

Inarto

October 2, 2009
#39

@Tom
So then the Shade turret is a bit stronger than the standard issue pulse rifle for the Tau. If we were to compare the shade turret to similar Tau weapons you would see just how much of an advantage the Tau have in firepower. For example their railgun is capable in taking out a Leman russ or land raider in one shot, whose hulls are made of plasteel and admantium which are much more durable then the materials used by the Covenant

Tom

October 2, 2009
#40

Im not sure about the 40k world, just stating what I know from the Halo world.

Also the covenant have antimatter technology. (again just putting this out there not debating as I don’t know 40k so can’t really state anything)

Kenny C.

October 2, 2009
#41

@ Tom

All of this has been considered and the outcome is the same… Tau win.

Tom

October 3, 2009
#42

I only brought up antimatter because if you run a text search on the page, only 1 other antimatter entry is brought up and it relates to engines so didn’t seem at all like this had been considered, at least in this discussion anyway.

Really it would be better if they pitted more well suited enemies against each other. At the moment we have a group from 2500 and one from 40000.

Forerunner would be interesting, I mean they can traverse from one galaxy to another in an instant, can slipspace your ship to the middle of a star, can create, modify or at least move stars and can create a ring thats 10 000km in diameter in less than a year. Not to mention they can slipspace that ring to another galaxy and activate it remotely and said ring will wipe out sentient life 25000 light years around it.

At the moment though it is hugely unfair – its obvious the Tau would win because they are so much more advanced from being in the future and having ships and infantry that can take huge amounts of damage.

Kenny C.

October 3, 2009
#43

@ Tom

Well… that’s FactPile and thats Warhammer 40,000 – The most brutal and violent fictional universes ever conceived.

the_man_with The_Answers

October 31, 2009
#44

I want the Forunner Trilogy to come out. There is alot unkown about them and from what everyone’s seen, the forunners look pretty damned impressive. Especially the whole building/transporting planet sized weapons in less than a year that can kill everything within 2500 light years.

Forward Unto Dawn

December 11, 2009
#45

The Tau would get screwed if the Elites were flying the BCs. remember- one Elite fleet has the battle prowess of 3 brute fleets.
But we would also need to know if Tau fleets are susceptible to slipspace rupture slaughter. If so, all the covvies need to do would be to jump into the Tau fleet and then open uninterrupted slipspace ruptures. From there on, it’d be a downhill wormhole ride for the Tau.

Inarto

December 12, 2009
#46

@Forward Unto Dawn
When have the covenant shown this ability to open controlled slipspace rifts? In all the halo media I played/read I dont think the covenant once used this as a tactic. I was unable to find any mention of this on halopedia either. However I havent played the most recent games or read all the books, so if they can do this then I apologise.
Onto your next point, prowess is good and all but it doesnt really matter if your completly outgunned by a competent enemy.

shaun182

December 12, 2009
#47

“I want the Forunner Trilogy to come out. There is alot unkown about them and from what everyone’s seen, the forunners look pretty damned impressive. Especially the whole building/transporting planet sized weapons in less than a year that can kill everything within 2500 light years.”

i suggest you go read L-W post about forerunners on page 6, i believe, on the flood vs chimera thread, its both funny and true.

Forward Unto Dawn

December 14, 2009
#48

The Covenant have been known to screw Earth with something called an Uncontrolled Slipspace Rupture where a spaceship with slipspace capability can hitch a ride with them while anything else gets hit by something with the calibre of a Death Star beam… They screwed New Mombasa after all.

Forward Unto Dawn

December 14, 2009
#49

The only disadvantage being that it requires a ship with a slipspace engine to use it and has a “ground zero” firing range of zero.

shaun182

December 14, 2009
#50

doesnt that require i ship, getting into a tau worlds atmosphere, which is not going to be easy, with the tau shooting any ship that comes now.

Goldman
December 22, 2009
#51

Can we wrap this up? We’ve proven beyond a doubt that the Tau are more mobile and tactical with better technology.

And they dont charge Spartans with spears.

Nominate the Tau for the Fact Pile award.

L-W

March 3, 2010
#52

1) “So a choice from; the Tau, the UNSC and the Flood? A rather pathetic list, wouldn’t you say?”

No one said the list had to be composed of brilliant contenders, merely contenders. If you understood this rather simple concept we would not be having this conversation as of now.

2) “Me.”

Then you are the only one bringing up an irrelevant point of conjecture.

3) “That’s nice, and I agree with you, but what has this got to do with my post?”

Try and maintain the route of discourse Shaun, otherwise no one else will. Now try and keep it relevant to what we’re discussing as to avoid further derailing us.

4) “Again, what’s the point? I was saying that, while qualitatively (as in their inherent qualities, not in their pound-for-pound power) the Tau are indeed suited for combat with the Covenant, in actuality there are far more deadly enemies in 40k. And your problem with this is?”

My problem is that you would derail the topic of the conversation with a rather anal demonstration of listed science fiction Empires (something that’s not new to you) and accuse me of sophistry in the process, a matter that I will not take lightly.

Now keep any of your comments relevant to the thread, or don’t bother.

shaun182

March 3, 2010
#53

you had me confused for i minute, you meant sean0931 but used my way of spelling the name.

L-W

March 3, 2010
#54

My apologies, I’ll make sure it doesn’t happen again.

shaun182

March 3, 2010
#55

its no problem, and your not the first and most probably wont be the last.

you just used my spelling instead of his, its worse when people think its me thats the one that has posted, and i get blamed for his rubbish, hell i can create enough rubbish of my own, before taking someone elses.