Wow, very interesting fight. I think this is a little more evenly matched than admin realizes, but I agree with the final conclusion. Rahl wins this by the skin of his teeth.

I have read all the sword of truth books and all the legend of drizzt books… and with that being said i believe richard should win this. he has hundreds of years of sword skill experience from the hundreds of previous seekers whose knowledge suddenly gets passed on to him from the sword of truth.

its not fair really. drizzt is probably the best skilled sword fighter in the fantasy world, but richard’s swordsmanship is supernatural in origin – accumulated sword skills of hundreds of fighters. And he didn’t even work hard for it. very unfair.

I doubt that.

Drizzt has defeated Dow warriors, some of them weapon masters (notably Dantrag Baenre of the First House of Menzoberranzan) who are centuries older than he is. He wasn’t even 1 century old when he killed Dantrag, or most Drow for that matter.

I still bet on Drizzt in this fight.

I’ve read all of the SOT series, and most of the Drizzt books. I would only give this to Richard IF he was using two weapons. Drizzt attacks simotaneously from differnt angles with Twinkle and Icingdeath. If Richard only had his one sword, he would be in trouble.

Ok, to the comment above me, Gratch left. he’s not coming back. Richard also doesn’t have a yabre or mriswith cape. they were evil and he left them behind..

As for who would win, I believe it would be a tie. Richard has the exp. of countless generations, but Drizzt has LIVED countless generations. and if Richard used the magic of the blade, Drizzt has Icingdeath. it stops all fire(including wizard’s fire and the angry-fire magic). that just makes The Sword of Truth a sword of the Ancients. It would be an interesting fight though. i think they would both drop from exhaustion after about 4 days of straight fighting. after that, it would be whoever woke up first

You should probably rename richard rahl to richard cypher. If even one eye strays here that is watching the movies without reading the book, it will ruin ALOT of the show for them.

Drizz’t for the Win. Straight up sword fight, no question. Maybe the SOT guy has some experience. Drizz’t's skills are not just based on his talent. His wit, will, guile, SPEED, adaptability, and experience at least equal to if not greater than o’l RR (Drizz’t after all has killed Drow weapon masters, Drow Wizards, human assassins and Wizards, and quite a few demons, Giants, and other things). in fact, the harder the fight, the better Drizz’t Likes it. And then there’s the Hunter. Consider Drizz’t as he is. A Masterful Scimitar wielding Drow, with amazing speed and agility. Add in a can of truly Pissed Off. O-F-F. he has been known scare the ever living crap out of people MUCH larger than himself. This includes Ogres, Giants, Artemis Entreri, barbarian leadership, and at times his own companions. This is known as his Hunter Aspect. he has been known to shear right through magical protections, magical armor and weapons, shrug off heavy, close to archmage level spells, and freeze enemies in thier tracks. One example of the Hunter aspect. in the Book, EXILE, he takes two scimitar like lengths of wooden poles and goes to show some young deep gnomes how he defeated a huge basilisk. A stone model was his target. He took the head off that stone representation with wooden POLES.

Just my 2 cents =)

The one constant about Rahl’s magic is that it’s *usually* based on need. While in regular instances it’s not fast enough to get Drizzt, he may set off another spell that could be instant to the touch that could get the Drow…

@AHEM “Or all the times he got cuts or minor injuries in sword fights and his magic didn’t do squat.”

Don’t forget, per FactPile debating rules, currently, Rahl is at his peak in the book series as to knowing how to use his powers. Is it possible that Zedd would teach Rahl some tricks like this for the purposes of protection? Or that Rahl himself devised his own “defense” spells?

Though he wants to I’m sure, Zedd has never really sat Richard down and taught him anything about magic, let alone taught him specific defense spells.

Thats because Richard is a War Wizard with both addative and subtractive magic that Zedd doesn’t know how to even begin to explain because their magic works differently. It is not even explainable by Nathan Rahl who’s been alive for 1000 years and did try and teach Richard to use his gift. They got NOWHERE. In my opinion the two would be so evenly matched that it would be the first to make a mistake from pure exhaustion after HOURS maybe DAYS of fighting. They would be too evenly matched to say one over the other, but I’ve read Drizzt longer and I’m in his corner. I know that it is a hands down draw except for a biased fans opinion. But I have read all of both series and Drizzt not only has the superhuman dexterity but the monsters he has fought are WAY more dangerous and deadly than the ones Richard faced. Dragons, demons, GODS, orcs trolls, giants, etc.,etc. and the list goes on for a WHILE. Drizzt RULEZ!

“I know that it is a hands down draw except for a biased fans opinion. But I have read all of both series and Drizzt not only has the superhuman dexterity but the monsters he has fought are WAY more dangerous and deadly than the ones Richard faced. Dragons, demons, GODS, orcs trolls, giants, etc.,etc. and the list goes on for a WHILE.”

Are you kidding me?

Rahl has fought dragons, gars, wizards with both additive and subtractive power, sorcerers, beings protected from all harm by the divine power of Orden, heart hounds, creatures of the Underworld, the Sisters of the Dark, Mriswith, the Mriswith Queen, deadly plagues, telepaths, former Seekers, Mord-Sith, humans twisted into monsters, etc. His resume is every bit as impressive as Drizzt’s, if not more so.

@john
most of those just seem to be magice weilding humans, so u really dont need 2 repeat them over and over
im for drizzt here, lets see richard fight blind

I haven’t read the SOT series, but Rahl is in for a beat-down. Drizzt has the two magical scimitars, IcingDeath and Twinkle. But… It has been said that Drizzt moves those two swords faster than the eye can see. Oh, and look at this, straight from Wikipedia…. “Drow are highly resistant to magic,” So, Rahl’s magic won’t ‘obliterate’ him as some said.If Drizzt can beat up a stone statue with wooden poles….

@john
i did not know that particular fact, that definately give him more of a chance than i thought, but how often has he fought blind? i just think drizzt has more experience here and i really think they are quite equal in sword play

“I guess Drizzt would have more experience with it since he uses it regularly to turn the fight to his advantage, and he could probably hold his own against Rahl in a sword fight, but I don’t think either of those factors will decide this fight; it will be Rahl’s army-crushing magic that will.”

I have to agree with this point. Rahl’s magic would be the wildcard that could give him the win. He’s demonstrated some pretty extreme magics when his gets his power working. For Drizzt to win, I think his strategy would have to be to outmaneuver Rahl and strike from behind before he could land a solid hit.

It might depend on how much control Rahl has of his magic at the time, whether he is in a pre-training state, has managed some rough control, is angry/needful enough to use it consciously, etc. It also may hinge on how much time Drizzt will give him to react. If the Drow catches him by surprise, ambushes him, or charges in immediately before Richard can get an idea of what he’s fighting and to use his magic, he would take the advantage. However, the longer the introductory blows last, the more the scales tllt in Richard’s favor.

Drizzt is only a little faster and more agile than a peak human athlete. Most of his speed advantage comes from his anklets of speed, which allow him footspeed about twice as fast as normal.

I am not sure i am sure dritzz in a weapon master which means he can hit vital spot more often infact 6 out of 20 hits will be on a vital spot and if i am right dritzz is a drow of at least 18the level or more meaning he have magic resistance of 86% or SR:28 dont know how that translate sory and i guess he still have those draw ability like darkness fiery fire and stuff i dont think richard can have a sure win but it would be an interesting fight with each equally capable of killing one another

Richard wouldn’t last a week in Drizzt’s world. The monsters and enemies Drizzt had faced would squah Richard like a bug. He wouldn’t last five seconds against Ertu and the assortment of demons Drizzt has slain. Being *in tune* or whatever with your weapons doesn’t count for jack squat when your opponent actually FIGHTS BETTER. What does “in tune” with your weapons mean anyway?

What it comes down to is who has the will, passion, and drive to become a master at what they do. Richard was gifted his abilities: they are supernatural in nature. Even if Richard COULD somehow concievably kill Drizzt, I would respect Drizzt more. He has been training for decades. He grew up in Menzoberanzan. He had one of the hardest childhoods possible. He has been beaten and tortured far more than Richard. He had the courage to run away and eventually return to Menzoberanzan. This guy has got some serious BALLS.

Drizzt Do’Urden is one B.A.M.F and has more than earned the right to be called a master.

He represents everything that a good fighter needs to be.

Truly, he IS the Deadliest Warrior.

Because of Drittz’s speed, surpassing everything Richard has, he would most definitely take this one. Richard has gained centuries of prior knowledge from Seekers dead, but how will that help him against an enemy that is speed itself? And I agree with AHEM: Richard wouldn’t be able to cast his subtractive magic that fast. Sure Rand (sorry about bringing Wheel of Time into this, but it is relevant) would be able to balefire Drittz out of existance before Drittz could say drow, but Richard just doesn’t have fast magic like that. Bottom line: the dark elf takes this fight.

“No, honestly, I’m confused. Since when does Richard get to use his magic to defend himself? He’s fought plenty of batttles in which his life was very much on the line and in which he certainly had great need, but he didn’t get to use spells against his enemies. Examples:
-When he fought the gars in the first book.
-when the Denna tortured him in the first book. At that time he was DEFINATELY in DIRE NEED and ANGER…but oops…no magic!? “Duh…how’d that happen?”
-fighting the mriswith in book three

“Oh and also there is the time when Nicci uses the maternity spell on Kahlan. If seeing that done to his wife didn’t give him enough need and or anger, then nothing will. ever.

“Let’s face it fellow Factpilers: Richard Rahl’s war wizard abilities are nothing but a pathetic attempt at a plot device by Terry Goodkind.”

You make some good points. Magic is pretty much a plot device in the SoT, especially considering how many Deus Ex Machinas Richard pulls off whenever he is in terminal trouble and suddenly is able to use his magic effectively. However, there are a couple of things to consider in the examples you cited.

-When he was captured by Denna, Richard didn’t even know that he had magic, and certainly didn’t know how to use it. It also would have been a pretty stupid move to make, as Denna was immune to magic and was holding Richard in a metaphysical death grip using the power of the Sword of Truth against him. Using his war wizard’s magic against her would only have tightened her hold on him. Same case with the gars; Richard wasn’t even told that he had the gift until the second book.

-When Nicci put Kahlan under the Maternity Spell, Richard recognized right away that harming Nicci would have killed Kahlan. He deliberately didn’t attack her, because of that, and told his bodyguard not to do so either. On other occasions, Richard has consistently shown himself able to use magic when Kahlan is threatened, such as when she was kidnapped by Oba. On that occasion, he killed over a thousand men with a single spell.

-Richard does not need to “enter the dance with death.” Now that he’s called the spirits once, he has all of their knowledge stored in his head, and he practices the sword forms he learned from them even when he doesn’t have the Sword of Truth. Once, in the tenth book, Richard was caught without the Sword of Truth, and he unleashed his fury with a simple unenchanted steel blade and slaughtered his way through an entire batallion of Imperial Order soldiers and nearly escaped a castle full of enemies before he was recaptured. The IO commander there was so impressed with his skill that he decided not to execute him and instead recruited him unto his blood sport team.

I agree that Richard’s magic is unreliable, but I don’t think it’s any more fair to assume he won’t have it at all in this fight than to assume he’ll automatically be able to control it. He has shown some truly powerful and impressive spells, from fire to lightning to destroying a series of milennia-old towers to healing. If he does somehow unleash his magic in this fight, which he may or may not do, Drizzt may be in trouble. He has resistences to magic, yes, but those would make little difference when Richard’s attacks are strong enough to kill +1000 men at once. He’d need to avoid them, which I think he probably could.

“We don’t even know that the Sword of Truth will slice through Drizzt’s scimitars. Drizzt’s swords are magical in nature and were able to withstand athrogate’s disintegrating/rusting solution wich is designed to corode your weapons. Even if the swords power affects Drizzt’s blades, I highly doubt they’ll completely blast through it. Once Drizzt realises what the sword of truth does to his weapons, he’ll back off and methodically defeat Richard’s blade as if Richard were Tos’un using Kahzid hea.”

I would argue that it is pretty clear that the Sword of Truth is unlikely to cut through Drizzt’s scimitars. The only time Richard has actually faced an opponent with an enchanted blade, rather than an ordinary metal sword, it withstood the blows of the Sword of Truth just fine.(This happened towards the end of the second book, Stone of Tears.)

“Richard could have done a number of things with his magic in that situation. He could have dispelled the magic link straight away, or mind controlled Nicci and made her dispel it, then kill herself. Nicci wouldn’t have been able to defend herself from a mind control spell from Richard because the link with Kahlan consumes all of her magic. My point was that if his war wizard abilities functioned as they should, he should have had enough anger and need to do something, preferably one of those things.”

The only way to end a Maternity spell is for the one who cast it to willingly end the spell while in the presence of the target. Richard attempting to sever the cord without Nicci’s consent would have probably resulted in both their deaths, or at the least, just Kahlan’s. Richard, being as relatively untrained as he was, would have been very stupid to try to tamper with Nicci’s magic in desperation like that.

No wizard in the SoT series has ever displayed mind control powers; only Dreamwalkers, Witch Women (limited and temporary), and Confessors have, and Richard isn’t one of those, and hasn’t ever used any sort of similar spell in the entire series. Besides, at the point where she cast the Maternity spell, Nicci was also using a loophole in the terms of an ancient magic to grant herself the protection of the Rahl Bond, and had immunalized herself to any alien magical presence entering her mind; even Jagang the Dreamwalker found himself unable to penetrate her mind. She didn’t need to use her Han to maintain this protection, and kept it even when the Maternity spell was up and running. At this point, mind controlling Nicci would have been flat out impossible.

Richard also knew, and he stated this himself, that using any sort of powerful spell or mind control on Nicci, even if it worked, could very likely have caused unknowable consequences to Kahlan, who was connected to her through the Maternity spell and thus feeling everything that happened to Nicci, magical or mundane.

Richard didn’t really have a lot of options at that point, because even if he could have used his magic, the life of his beloved was hanging in the balance and could be severed at any moment. Nicci could have killed Kahlan with a flick of her thoughts if she wanted to, and probably would have if RIchard had tried to dissolve the Maternity spell somehow.

“I agree that Richard’s magic is unreliable, but I don’t think it’s any more fair to assume he won’t have it at all in this fight than to assume he’ll automatically be able to control it. He has shown some truly powerful and impressive spells, from fire to lightning to destroying a series of milennia-old towers to healing. If he does somehow unleash his magic in this fight, which he may or may not do, Drizzt may be in trouble. He has resistences to magic, yes, but those would make little difference when Richard’s attacks are strong enough to kill +1000 men at once. He’d need to avoid them, which I think he probably could.”

I think it’s totally fair to assume he won’t be able to use any magic. Supposedly he gets the ability to use magic when he’s really angry, or needful or desperate. And supposedly he’s supposed to get exactly what he needs. There are plenty of times throughout the series where Richard’s life is at stake, may fights he gets into where he’s very much angry or needful.
Gee, his war-wizard magic would have come in a lot of handy when he let Kahlan stab him in Faith of the Fallen. He suffered a gruesome, painful stomach wound and lay gasping for air, dying on the floor. However no healing magic leapt to his fingers. If being moments away from death isn’t needy, I’m not sure what is.
Besides, most of the time all Richard seems to get is lightning. Drizzt has shown the ability to evade lightning, sometimes just barely being clipped by it, but he has enough magic resistance to make a clip from lightning inconsequential. If Richard receives some Wizard Fire, he’s even more out of luck. Drizzt has Icingdeath, which protects him from demon and magic fire. And he still has his drow magic resist.
Richard can’t consciously control his magic. Even if he was clever enough to invent a spell that could hurt Drizzt, he wouldn’t be able to use it because he doesn’t control what he gets.
Terry Goodkind is the one who controls Lord Rahl’s magic, not Richard himself. All Terry does with Richard’s magic is make plot devices and plot armour. Terry doesn’t play by his own rules and if Richard’s magic worked the way Terry says it should, then Richard would have killed all of his enemies in an instant. I mean, come on, just how overpowered is this guy? He took out thousands of D’Haran soldiers at once in the second novel.
I would rather have Drizzt’s talent, speed, and skill, something tangible and real than being able to say “I’m needy give me magic!”

has everyone forgot that Richard’s sword would shatter Drizzt’s on first contact? much less by the end of the SOT series Richard basically became a god? Richard wins. Love ya Drizzt, but Richard is in a whole different catagory.

oh, and from what i’ve read on here “ahem” apparently scans books and doesn’t read them, because he has been wrong about alot in the sot series and sounds like a moron

Heh heh. Drizzt wins. Tal and Mike, You obviously haven’t read my posts, because you have no idea what your talking about. That or you REALLY don’t like logic.

“aceofqueens” you seem to be making these two fight at what ever timeline you want in their respective stories. of course drizzt would win if he fought richard before he mastered all his powers and sword. same way richard as a woods guide would slaughter drizzt in his baby crib. if they fight at their best, well as extragoodchi put it, richard controls the whole universe.

i never once mentioned experience in swordplay, don’t put words in my mouth. and “Making a fight fair” has nothing to do with who would win in a fight, i’m sure Poland would have loved that rule at the begining of the nazi march across Europe. none the less weather he gave up his power of orden he still had control over his han at the end. and for the whole he can’t fight in the dark thing apparently you don’t remember the third book “Blood of the Fold” where he fights the mriswith and slaughters many of them in one fight while they are all invisible. he could just sense where they were, same as he would with drizzt. now for the sword fighting thing, just because someone was “gifted” the knowledge doesn’t make it any less tangible in a fight. because of it he does have more experience, about 3000 years more experience. and drizzts accomplishments over creatures is actually about the same, in my opinion, as Richards. and seriously what ever happened to the sword of truth shattering drizzts swords huh? nothing about drizzts swords would indicate that they wouldn’t shatter. and if you don’t like the dialog in the book then fine, don’t read it. has nothing to do with a fight though, it’s off the subject and sounds desperate.

Richard can sense creatures life-force to tell where they are. This won’t help him sense where Drizzt’s swords are, or the ground, or other objects. Richard could easily run into a wall and hurt himself because all he can sense is living things. Drizzt on the other hand, can use his hearing, smell, sense of direction, and his ability to quickly observe and remember surroundings (he proves he has this ability because he often uses his surroundings to great advantage) to know where non-living objects are, instead of JUST a person. If Richard were to try and fight inside a drow darkness globe, he could tell where Drizzt is (provided that Richard’s magic penetrates Drizzt’s drow magic resistance) but not Drizzt scimitars, since last time I checked, swords are not alive. This is a big problem because it is hard to block if you can’t see your opponent’s weapon, after all.

yeah, let’s just agree to disagree about the fact that you are wrong lol.

lol

Well, here is MY refutation, also neatly arranged into numerical points. Although these points have a little more, how do you say, truth.

1. First of all everybody, Tal has no clue what he is talking about. If he did, he would know that Drizzt BEAT Enteri. The first fight between Enteri and Drizzt resulted in Enteri being strewn acrossed some rocks, clinging to life after falling from a cliff. In the second fight, Enteri won, but only because a man named Jarlaxle had his pscionist aid Enteri.

Yes Tal, you have the right attitude, a far less experienced opponent has a shot at a more experienced foe. I.E. Drizzt has a GREAT shot at Richard even though Drizzt has near to one hundred years of experience, and Richard has at least a thousand.
You help to prove Drizzt would win. Thank you.

2. Since when did I ever talk like a redneck? Whatever. Anyways, you are wrong. Drizzt’s two swords DOES have an advantage over Richard’s single sword. See, if Richard was fighting just any two-sword-wielder, he would have be at a distinct disadvantage because he has to expend extra energy to block one sword after another, and he would tire out rather easily. Let alone Richard getting in an attack. But Drizzt is no ordinary sword fighter, he has greater hand speed and dexterity than most, and is a very vicious and aggressive fighter, especially when he is in the hunter. He once saw an orc holding his girlfriend’s sword (he was trapped behind enemy lines and assumed the orc took it off her corpse) and basically went ape on it, hitting it at least a hundred times before his ally could run over and get him to stop.

What I’m saying is that since Richard carries one sword and no off hand weapon or shield, he is at a big disadvantage because he would have to use a lot more energy to parry Drizzt’s lightning attacks, let alone get an attack in. And I don’t even think anybody is crazy enough to argue Richard has more endurance in the first place.

3. Yes, as an elf, Drizzt is naturally a bit lighter and more graceful than a human, more agile and acrobatic. The flip side of the coin is that if Richard gets ahold of him, he can beat Drizzt’s nose back into his brain in about three punches. Drizzt can’t stand up to Richard, strength against strength. Rahl outweighs him substantially, has far superior reach, and gains an advantage to seizing the offensive by benefit of pure muscle. Think of it in terms of Oberyn Martell versus The Mountain That Rides in ASoIaF. Drizzt might win by finesse if he genuinely has the skill to, but the whole time, he had better be really careful. Rahl, if armored (particularly plate armor), can shrug off a couple of scimitar hits easily. Drizzt, on the other hand, could be killed by main force even if the Sword of Truth doesn’t penetrate his mail.”

This whole paragraph is alot of b.s. let me explain.

While Richard has in the very least a thousand years of experience, the amount of time he has been fighting is far less than Drizzt. Richard started fighting at the beginning of the series, and had been a woods guide for a short time.

Drizzt on the other hand, has been fighting for 100 years. Most of this century he was a ranger, similar to a woods guide. Drizzt has finely honed fighter’s muscles and a seasoned veteran’s endurance. However, Drizzt is an elf, and as such has a shorter body, shorter reach, and a naturally smaller constitution. I figure this evens him out to about normal. Richard and Drizzt are about even in strength.

This is the part of the rambling bs that I take most issue with:

“if Richard gets ahold of him, he can beat Drizzt’s nose back into his brain in about three punches.”

The problem with that is the fact that Drizzt knows how to grapple well. He was trained how to wrestle in Menzoberanzan. Once Wulfgar the barbarian pinned Drizzt because Wulfgar though Drizzt kissed Wulfgar’s G.F. Drizzt basically used leverage, cunning, and a trained mind to slide out of Wulfgar’s grasp and overpower him. Keep in mind Wulfgar is a F*cking ripped barbarian, I would be amazed at the stupidity of anybody who suggests a Richard vs. Wulfgar wrestling/hand to hand fight. In fact, Wulfgar and a cave giant locked arms and basically sumo wrestled each other. Wulfgar, by sheer strength, bent the creature back so far the cave giant broke it’s spine.

Yet Drizzt beat Wulfgar, even though he was pinned by this muscle beast.

So don’t give me that crap.

4. Ok. Let me school you.

Drizzt frequently uses his globes of darkness to devastating effect, especially in the Hunter’s Blades Trilogy, which you obviously have not read, thus helping to prove the fact that you have no idea, what the hell you are speaking about in your above comment.

What’s this crap about “Granted, he can’t see what’s underfoot…but then, neither can Drizzt.”

I thought you understood the whole point of fighting blind. Drizzt can’t see of course, that’s why it’s called blind fighting.

Once, Drizzt rushed into a tent full of orcs and one orc shaman. He dropped darkness globes all over the tent so that it was pitch black in there. Also, the shaman had cast a spell causing silence. In other words, Drizzt had no sound or sight. Yet he slaughtered all of those orcs. He relied on his sense of direction, feel, instinct, and even smell.

Rahl can’t use magic to pinpoint Drizzt’s location. Rahl can’t control his own magic. How sad. First off, he’d need to be smart enough to even devise a clever trick like that, which he is not. Second, all he gets is usually lightning and simple cave man stuff, let alone a complex trick that could bypass Drizzt’s magic resistance.

Ah, let’s not forget about this little one: “Drizzt, on the other hand, could be killed by main force even if the Sword of Truth doesn’t penetrate his mail.”

Um…hello McFly! the point of armour is that it stops the blade, and you don’t get hurt. Oh, I forgot. a blade not penetrating armour still kills you. Silly me.

“So these are my points. Drizzt is a skilled warrior, but then so is Rahl. Goodkind considers Richard the most dangerous man in his universe…Salvatore, on the other hand, has made numerous comments to the effect that Drizzt is a sort of “big fish, small pond” character. Rahl is bigger, stronger, and as far as I’m concerned, comparably skillful. Drizzt can step fast, true, but I have yet to hear a convincing argument for him actually winning. Most commentators seem to simply think “OMG, BUT HE’S DRIZZT!” and leave it at that.”

I don’t give a rat’s ass what the authors say, R.A. is a genius and Terry has a girls name and can’t write a well thought out story. What the authors say about their characters doesn’t change the fact that Drizzt would pretty much massacre (and I say massacre because massacre refers to the slaughtering of defenseless civilians.) Richard, then move on like nothing happened.

“Goodkind considers Richard the most dangerous man in his universe…”

LOL. Even you know that Richard is surely NOT that powerful.

“easily digested numerical points:”

those are points?

Go ahead and post again if you are in the mood to make me grin.

I love doing this.

wow is it just me or is aceofqueens the biggest troll ever? who let this 3 year old get a hold of the internet? never getting laid seems to build up a lot of repressed anger.. i honestly think aceofqueens would suck drizzt’s dick given the opportunity. reading this person’s assertions regarding richard rahl is like watching some douche on fox news talk about obama. get over yourself and introduce yourself to a treadmill and buy some lean cuisines you miserable vagina… once again.. power of orden > elf with two gayly named swords. you lose. get a life and live it loser

*Groan* Aceofqueens, I realize you’re da biggest drizzt fan evah and all, but I think my arguments have at least been fairly civil. You, however, have responded to everyone who has questioned you with abuse and ad hominem attacks. This does not impress me, nor does it make me particularly eager to concede points to you.

1) Yes, Drizzt beat Entreri. Twice now (he didn’t beat Drizzt the second time, as you kindly pointed out. He was defeated, and then tried to commit suicide by announcing his backstab). It has been acknowledged each time as something very close, almost dumb luck. My point is not that Entreri is Drizzt’s superior, only that despite Drizzt’s vaunted “experience”, he’s come close numerous times to being defeated by a man roughly sixty years his junior. Salvatore himself has called Entreri Drizzt’s “opposite number”, his “dark reflection”. I.e., the points you made about Drizzt’s swordsmanship winning out purely due to practice are not terribly valid. I would also make the point that Richard does not have “experience”, per se. He has a certain intuition based on the knowledge of past Seekers.

2) I apologize if I made you sound too redneck. I was mostly lampooning this:

“2 SWORDS to RICHARDS 1″. At any rate, you make an interesting point, but I think you’re basing it on a flawed understanding of martial arts (no offense: very few disciplines actually use double swords). You seem to be suggesting some sort of addition, that Richard is going to expend more effort keeping away two blades than one, as if he was fighting two people at once. That’s not the way it works. Dual blades work in concert. No swordfighter can duel with two blades entirely independent of each other. That is, the motion of one dictates what the other is going to do. This effect becomes even more prominent when one considers that Drizzt is using two long blades, rather than a single longsword and a main gauche. There are moves to control dual swords, just as there are moves to control single swords. I say again: no style is inherently superior.

3) No, you don’t understand. Much as it’s against the kung fu wisdom, size matters. A bigger man with more weight to carry around and a broader build is naturally going to develop more muscle mass than a smaller, lighter man. Drizzt is only a little heavier than Cattie-Brie, an average-sized (if fit) woman. We can estimate her at around 110-130 lbs. Richard is a fairly big and powerful man, maybe 200 to 210 lbs. He’s not a beast like Wulfgar, but he’s definitely significantly larger than Drizzt.

On your Wulfgar point…oh yes, Wulfgar is much bigger than Richard, that’s a given. No one questions that: Wulfgar is a Conan spin-off. Being more of a tank than anyone else kind of comes with the territory. You’ll notice, though, that I used words like “could” and “careful”. What I’m saying is that Drizzt has to be careful. He beat Wulfgar by finesse and skill (and the fact that Wulfgar had gone waaaay over the rainbow to Hulk-land). That doesn’t mean that he’s suddenly got big, strong guys all figured out and he can bend them around his little finger. My point here is that Richard, unlike Wulfgar, has skills and combat abilities comparable to Drizzt’s own through the Sword of Truth. So if Drizzt can’t get out of it by skill alone…exactly what is he going to do?

4) Okay…here’s a quote from you. “Richard can sense creatures life-force to tell where they are.” That’s pretty much it, in a nutshell. I honestly don’t see anything else in there that says anything about my point. Just a lot of summarizing of Drizzt’s accomplishments…in a rather breathy, awed style, I might add, xD. To save you (and me) further plot exposition, let me be clear: I read all these books, kid. Yeah, I may not remember every fight scene. I read them, like most people, when I was around twelve to thirteen, but I do remember the general occurences. Moving on.

Okay, on the magic. I was mostly dealing with this as a swordfight, because I honestly find “would magic work” questions pretty hard to answer a lot of the time. It’s all so relative to the books. That said, though, I don’t think you can really claim that Richard CAN’T use magic. Yeah, he’d have to be all “grr, evil!” about Drizzt, but without further knowledge of the fight’s setting and origins, we can’t really be certain he wouldn’t. I mean, does Richard come into this with the entire well-thumbed Legend of Drizzt collection in his backpack? I kind of doubt it. If he just meets Drizzt in a forest and they somehow end up fighting, he’s just going to think: “Agh! Strange black pointy-eared man! Scary violet eyes! Wicked-looking blades (heh heh, wait, did he actually call that one Twinkle? Dude, that is soooo gay…okay, back on task). Trying to kill me? What?! But that would leave my kingdom uncared for! And my beautiful gf cold in her bed at night! NOOO!!!” *Hulk rage*

This wouldn’t necessarily happen. That isn’t to say it wouldn’t, either. Another bit of likelihood in Rahl’s favor.

“Um…hello McFly! the point of armour is that it stops the blade, and you don’t get hurt. Oh, I forgot. a blade not penetrating armour still kills you. Silly me”

Uh…look, main force is…okay, explanation incoming. Chain mail can stop a blade. That doesn’t mean it stops the force behind it. If a big man swings a large metal object into you, it will hurt like hell, even if the blade doesn’t cut you. After the advent of plate armor in the middle ages, blades generally DIDN’T get through armor, so the knights took to using warhammers and axes on other knights. This was because, given enough impact swung directly into you, you may not have so much as a paper cut, but you will still be on the ground, coughing up blood for your last few seconds of life before the curtain drops. If Richard gets a chance to put his full force into a two-handed swing that connects, Drizzt is screwed. It will break bones at the least, possibly crush his throat, skull or chest, and very likely cause internal bleeding as his ribs shatter. Drizzt, on the other hand, makes a lot of raking slashes, but he’s been generally shown to be oddly reluctant to go for the kill shots. Like you so kindly reminded me, he “went ape” on an orc and hit it dozens of times. That’s, in fact, sort of his M.O. He slashes his opponent a lot and waits for them to bleed out and weaken before coming in for the coup de grace. He may have to revise that attitude facing Richard, however. Rahl’s a man who knows how to find an instant kill once in a while.

As for the last points…look, argument aside, don’t get all worked up over this.

Final point on the armor is a good one, though. I seem to recall Richard wearing armor at some point, but I read SoT before Legend of Drizzt even. Can someone who isn’t all gay for Drizzt (xD, no real harm meant: I’m all gaga for FitzChivalry Farseer at the moment) verify whether or not Rahl wears armor at the peak of his power?

Mmph. That’ll teach me to try to edit en route, xD.

well, I pretty much skimmed most of that, since it’s all bs anyway.

“*Groan* Aceofqueens, I realize you’re da biggest drizzt fan evah and all, but I think my arguments have at least been fairly civil. You, however, have responded to everyone who has questioned you with abuse and ad hominem attacks. This does not impress me, nor does it make me particularly eager to concede points to you.”

It’s funny that you would say that. I’m not crazy for Drizzt at all. There are plenty or people (Fictional and non-fictional) who could pretty much beat Drizzt to a pulp, which is exactly what Drizzt will do to Richard. The fact that you try to put words into my mouth shows your weakness, It’s hard to take a person seriously when they resort to childish games like telling me what I said.

1. I don’t know what your fascination with Enteri is about, I had thought we already cleared up the fact that Drizzt is superior. A younger, less experienced opponent CAN beat an older one, however in this case it is coincidentally experience that wins out.

I’m sick and tired of people who are always spewing crap out of their mouths about Richard’s “intuition” or some other abstract term that basically shows that person is just trying to sound smart. I would rather side with Drizzt’s exceptional speed, agility, stealth, and a fricken impressive list of accomplishments over Rahls “intuition” (whatever that means.)

2. I’m not gonna try to argue this point about 2 swords versus one, since It will get me no where because you obviously don’t comprehend math, which is a sad thing since math is a very useful skill in life.

“Uh…look, main force is…okay, explanation incoming. Chain mail can stop a blade. That doesn’t mean it stops the force behind it. If a big man swings a large metal object into you, it will hurt like hell, even if the blade doesn’t cut you. After the advent of plate armor in the middle ages, blades generally DIDN’T get through armor, so the knights took to using warhammers and axes on other knights. This was because, given enough impact swung directly into you, you may not have so much as a paper cut, but you will still be on the ground, coughing up blood for your last few seconds of life before the curtain drops. If Richard gets a chance to put his full force into a two-handed swing that connects, Drizzt is screwed. It will break bones at the least, possibly crush his throat, skull or chest, and very likely cause internal bleeding as his ribs shatter. Drizzt, on the other hand, makes a lot of raking slashes, but he’s been generally shown to be oddly reluctant to go for the kill shots. Like you so kindly reminded me, he “went ape” on an orc and hit it dozens of times. That’s, in fact, sort of his M.O. He slashes his opponent a lot and waits for them to bleed out and weaken before coming in for the coup de grace. He may have to revise that attitude facing Richard, however. Rahl’s a man who knows how to find an instant kill once in a while without a map and two signposts.”

WOW. What is this crap about Drizzt not going for kill shots? And he doesn’t just slash you and wait for you to die, that would be a bonehead move like something Richard would do. Drizzt kills more people per day (on average) than Richard in his whole life.

Drizzt charges you, disarms you, confuses you with whirling blades, and before you know it…BAM…Richard’s carroted artery is leaking.

Or you simply don’t see him…then bam, you’re dead without knowing what happened.

Richard, on the other hand, just sits around reading books and spewing crap about philosophies that every human already knows about. I mean, come on. Choosing life over death? Obviously that’s the whole point of survival. And survival is something Drizzt knows a lot about.

Maybe if Richie would get off his ass and get crap done every once in a while he would be a badass like Drizzt.

You know, I laughed pretty hard about your point involving Richards magic. That is some funny stuff. I’m not even gonna grace that with an argument, just go and read my posts. (you obviously have not done this.)

You know, all these things you claim about Rahl are pretty f’in hilarious. Dude, you are a trooper. Albeit a completely incorrect one.

You make my day.

Aceofqueens, once again…you don’t have to prove the John Gabriel greater internet dickwad theory right at every turn. To start with, I didn’t put words in your mouth. That’s not what the phrase means. I informed you in general terms that you were being offensive, and that I wasn’t impressed. As I could only assume you were putting on this facade of “me internet tough guy, you jane” to impress your opponents, I vaguely hoped (although didn’t really expect) you to make your points without trying to insult everyone who disagrees with you. That’s what an ad hominem attack means. It’s a term referring to debates, in which one individual tries to distract from the inadequacy of their own arguments by personally insulting his opponent. It’s considered a puerile way to do business.

1) Yes, yes, I’m aware that you think Drizzt is “frickin awesome” (no, you’re not crazy about Drizzt at all, I see it now…:) ). You’ve implied as much to, just saying, a bit of a nauseating extent. Aside from that, though, you’ve just engaged in another logical fallacy, an argumentum ad hominem. Your personal opinion has no place in a structured debate. You seem well-versed in the books themselves. Give me a reason why Drizzt’s speed and agility would defeat the sword of truth that is not based on something like “This one time, Drizzt did this, and it was so awesome…”; or “clearly, Rahl can’t be as good as Drizzt because Drizzt is more awesome (begging the question)”. Rahl has been shown capable of defeating 150 or so armed assailants at once. Drizzt, too, while never to my knowledge accomplishing a similar feat in specific…is a very skilled adversary. I don’t see any direct way of comparing their martial skills beyond that point (except possibly going over their individual moves line by line, and I don’t think either of us have enough time for that, xD), so we’re forced to turn to other strengths they may have. Ergo, Rahl’s size, strength, weight, possibility of magic, etc.

2) This is another ad hominem attack, I believe, mostly designed to draw attention from the lack of a useful counterargument. In the interest of clarification, however, I’ll give a brief example. It will be simple, as I, naturally, cannot claim to be a swordsman in any way comparable to fictional characters, lol. Say Drizzt makes a strike at Richard, right to left, with his right hand scimitar (Twinkle, I believe). Imagine further that Richard is able to interpose the sword of truth so as to halt Twinkle’s progress long enough for his off hand to seize Drizzt’s arm at the elbow. At this point, he basically controls Drizzt’s immediate reactions. He can yank him sideways easily with his greater weight, such that Drizzt has few options for using Icingdeath. His right shoulder is toward Richard. Twinkle is immobilized, and will be jutting out in front of Drizzt’s body, blocking a low stab by its mere presence. Any change in foot position will be betrayed by a twist to the shoulder or arm and alert Rahl, who can just drag him back a bit and resume the status quo. Drizzt has two main options: make an unlikely stab over his head with Icingdeath, or drop Icingdeath long enough to use a hold-breaking technique on Rahl’s wrist or hand. In the one case, Drizzt will likely be killed by Richard before he completes the maneuver. In the other, he may escape, but he will be a heartbeat slow for having to drop the blade and will likely come away tagged, as well as having lost one of his blades. The fight resumes. Never underestimate a grappling hand, especially when your opponent has nothing immediate to repel it with.

3) Mm…it would be gracious, at this juncture, to acknowledge that you were mistaken concerning blunt force trauma…but then, of course, I didn’t really expect that either. You may be right, however, there at the end, that I do Drizzt a disservice, generalizing his style without reference to specific examples. I do remember noticing, however, that Drizzt really seems to take a while to kill most of his opponents. Salvatore makes much reference to “cunningly placed cuts” and suchforth, but most of Drizzt’s duels seem to take a long time, involving a lot of cutting, before his opponent finally falls. He rarely goes for the (next time, spellcheck) carotid artery, as you say, right off the bat, as a real soldier would do. Instead, he wastes his time giving his opponent sustainable slashes, only then moving in for the final kill. That said, that’s only my recollection talking. If you’ve got a specific example where Drizzt just slits the throat of someone he’s facing without so much as breaking stride, feel free to post it up.

Okay…*reads on*…the rest of the post seems to be an expose on Rahl’s personal habits, for some reason that I’m apparently not privy to. I’d say it was a straw man fallacy (i.e. constructing an easy argument of your own to tear down, thus gaining an apparently better position), but to be honest, it’s fairly unrelated even for that, and I think it’s mostly just more ranting about the “frickin awesome” thing again.

I’ve reviewed your posts on the magic. I don’t honestly see them as useful. You refer only to examples in the first one or two books. Surely you know that Rahl used magic to greater effect later. Granted, his abilities have not fully matured even by the end of the series, but to claim it is impossible they will occur based on a few occurences when the poor guy doesn’t even know he’s a wizard doesn’t seem fair, mm? Lawlz…

Now. In the interest of putting this somewhat tiresome thing to rest (yeah…sure, xD), and making my position more clear (pretty damn already, but let’s give it a whirl)…here we go. One to one lineup.

Just as a minor note….I’m sure you won’t believe me, but I really don’t like Richard Rahl that much more than I like Drizzt Do’Urden. They’re both pulp fantasy mary-sues, and I’ve never been a big fan of Terry Goodkind (b/c he’s a pompous ass. “I don’t write fantasy”. Yeah. Fo sho, Terry…) or R.A. Salvatore (who, while apparently a nice guy, is just a terrible writer). Anyway, like I say, this isn’t really meant to convince you, because I’m sure you’ll be just as dubious as I am of the whole “No, really, I’m just a reasonable, balanced commentator, weighing the odds…” thing. Just thought I should mention it. Go Martin! Go Hobb! Go Rothfuss!

Anyway…

Rahl

Advantages: Outweighs opponent by about 50-60 pounds. Much stronger. Far superior reach. Possibility of using magic (it is, btw, physically impossible to dodge a lightning bolt), which would likely lead to a critical hit. Likely has access to more sword moves, overall.

Disadvantages: Lack of armor (no one’s responded, so I’ll assume you’re right on that). Inferior speed (while he is described as a faster man than all others in his village, Drizzt has his enchanted anklets–or greaves, if Salvatore knew what they were actually supposed to be called, xD).

Do’Urden

Advantages: Quick on his feet. Chain mail will deflect weaker blows with no damage. Marginal advantage may be gained by invoking sphere of darkness power (debatable).

Disadvantages: Physically smaller, weaker, and lighter than his opponent. Probably has access to fewer sword moves overall.

Finally…

“You make my day.”

“I love doing this”

“Make me grin.”

“Blah blah blah.”

*Raised eyebrow* Heh heh…heh heh heh….AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! Dude, could you get more obvious? Do you really think I haven’t seen the “you’re barely worth my attention, so I’ll fake being amused by your antics” attitude before? It’s as old as the web. Obviously, you care a great deal, otherwise you wouldn’t be trying to insult us with this feeble attempt at snarkiness and pseudointellectualism. You really make me laugh, kid. Ah, for the innocence and stupidity of youth…

*Drops smile*

As you may have noticed, I can pull the same anal, passive-aggressive little trick. It doesn’t mean anything. So spare me and stop pretending to find everyone criticizing you funny. Don’t shoot back a reply justifying it with a long-winded explanation of WHY you find us all so hilarious. A six year old could see it for the defensive mechanism it is at a glance. If you truly found this as negligible as you claim, you wouldn’t still be here. Now please…civility?

Yeah, I know, that probably ain’t gonna work either. But hey, no one can say I’m not putting effort into this.

“One final point: you also argue above that Rahl can’t use the magic of “his universe”, because he and Drizzt must be fighting in a neutral location. You then go on to announce that Drizzt can use his enchanted anklets to increase his speed, as well as using his globe of darkness powers. ”

For somebody who claims to know about Richard, you have this very pathetic misunderstanding of how the magic of orden works. Richard can control THE UNIVERSE. However a neutral area would prevent Rahl from using orden because it’s a neutral, unbaised place out of both of their respect universes. Richard would be OUT OF HIS UNIVERSE.

But Drizzt’s anklets and other magic items he amassed over the years would still work, because they draw energy from him and/or use the energy they are enchanted with. They will work wherever. The same thing with Richard’s sword.

By your logic, Richard’s sword wouldn’t work out-of-universe. However this is not the case, as I have already explained. The sword of truth has energy enchanted into it that it uses. However, if Richard lost his sword and was transported out of universe, then the link obviously wouldn’t work. (He can’t seem to hold on to that thing.)

“Excuse me, Mr. Goodkind, but if Richard Rahl was fighting Drizzt Do’Urden, would he be capable of using his magical powers? PS: If you say he can, I’ll make cheesy attempts to belittle you! Beware!”

Is that an imitation of me? Cause’ that’s highly humerous and very inaccurate.

Why should Terry get to decide the circumstances. Why is he allowed to say that the circumstances allow Richard to use magic (and the circumstances usually don’t) just to protect his little richard.

If Terry gets to manipulate the circumstances to help his character, than Mr. Salvatore can as well.

“Hey Mr. Salvatore! If Richard fought Drizzt Do’Urden, would Drizzt have his companions with him. P.S. If he does, than I’ll make lame attmepts to argue despite having holes punched through my logic. I’ll also continue to do immature arguing techniques and try to sound smart.”

Either Richard has no magic, or Drizzt has his allies with him.

(Catti-Brie, Wulfgar, Regis, Jarlaxle, Athrogate, Bruenor, Thibbledorf Pwent, Banak Brawnanvil, Alustriel of Silverymoon, Harkle Harpell, Guenwhyvar, and possibly others.)

I doubt Rahl can somehow fend off Drizzt, then dodge an arrow that moves lightning fast, stop Ageis Fang, avoid a bear hug from Pwent with his spiked armour, then counterspell Alustriel’s fireball or whatever it is she may throw (she IS a chosen of mystra,) roll to avoid thibbledorf pwent and bruenor, then stop Jarlaxle’s lightning bolt and sticky goo wand combo, while simultaneously throwing the 600 pound panther off his face, and somehow stop Harkle Harpell from accidentally killing everybody.

I doubt Richard could do this even with Terry’s convenient over-powering of his mages.

Ah, don’t forget Cadderly and Stumpet, the two clerics who will heal all of Drizzt’s band constantly.

As for the points you have to say above, I don’t give a crap. I’ve said the same things over and over again if you “don’t want to see reason” then I don’t really care.

A list of immature things you have done:

1. Attempt to put words in my mouth. For example, you suddenly claimed I was some kind of raving fan of Drizzt who could see reason. This is clearly not the case, plenty of REAL heroes have a good shot and killing Drizzt. I never said “Drizzt was the BEST evur” or whatever you claim I said. This shows that you know you are losing and shows you have nothing better to do, it’s as if you think that being a fanboy makes your points invalid.

Disadvantages: Lack of armor (no one’s responded, so I’ll assume you’re right on that). Inferior speed (while he is described as a faster man than all others in his village, Drizzt has his enchanted anklets–or greaves, if Salvatore knew what they were actually supposed to be called, xD).

Idiot.

Drizzt took the “anklets” from Dantrag Baenre the sword master. They are really bracers that Dantrag used on his wrists to increase his hand speed. However Drizzt put the BRACERS on his ANKLES. They are now ANKLETS. Greaves are something entirely different. Greaves are metal guards that protect your leg, thigh, and shin.

lol

wow ace, wish you’d read what you just wrote because you just verified what Tal was saying about your whole argument. just thought of something too, even if you make the assumption that drizzt’s swords wouldn’t shatter when striking richard’s; i have no knowledge why any of his armor or flesh wouldn’t be butter to it.