Moiraine wins this hands down, unless Kahlan is capable of blocking balefire, which I seriously doubt she is.

I’m not familiar with these two matrons, seems to me that they can be a good addition to the characters of Flash Gordon….Hey, at least now the pics are conservative….

*sigh* even if she wins here, it still won’t…it still won’t bring her back,goddammit….poor old thom….

“On a side note, which of these two would win a stare-down? They both seem to be pretty good at holding a poker face.”

I’ve got a better one.

Which of these two is put through the most awkward, ridiculous ritual/task involving nudity by their respective(and obviously male) authors?

Getting back to the duel itself, I do not think Kahlan’s Con Dar would be effective against Moraine. a) the only time she was able to use Con Dar (at least in books 1-5) is when she convinced herself that Richard was in danger, and Richard is not part of this duel. b) and more importantly, Moraine’s balefire erases Kahlan’s existence, in the present, future, and at least some of the past. I have no doubt Kahlan could confess Moraine in the Con Dar, but as long as Moraine starts with balefire, Kahlan would be obliberated and Moraine’s Confession would be erased from history. Of course, this is all assuming Moraine decides to use balefire in the first place. She repeatedly cautioned Rand on its dangers, and I might be wrong, but I believe she only ever used when fighting Be’lal. She may not consider Kahlan a big enough threat to use balefire in the first place. I’m not sure if there is a clear winner to this fight, there are just too many ifs.

“Getting back to the duel itself, I do not think Kahlan’s Con Dar would be effective against Moraine. a) the only time she was able to use Con Dar (at least in books 1-5) is when she convinced herself that Richard was in danger, and Richard is not part of this duel.”

Yes, it might count on outside help, though I’d like to point out that the Con Dar can be triggered in any situation that calls for extreme vengeance. If Kahlan believed that Moiraine was responsible for the death of something important to her, even that that wasn’t Richard, she might be able to invoke the Con Dar. While this wouldn’t really affect how effective the technique itself would be against Moiraine, it might limit Kahlan’s ability to use it, as the Con Dar coming into play in one of these fights is a bit of an if itself.

“b) and more importantly, Moraine’s balefire erases Kahlan’s existence, in the present, future, and at least some of the past. I have no doubt Kahlan could confess Moraine in the Con Dar, but as long as Moraine starts with balefire, Kahlan would be obliberated and Moraine’s Confession would be erased from history.”

That would work, in freeing Moiraine from Confession once she’s been Confessed, assuming she balefires Kahlan at the same time as Kahlan confesses her. If Moiraine was confessed and Kahlan was balefired at about the same time, the deduction of Kahlan’s influence from several seconds/minutes into the past would release Moiraine from Confession, but that’s a moot point anyway considering that if Kahlan is killed in any way, whether through balefire or not, all of her Confessed victims are released anyway.

Of course, if Moiraine is confessed before she can finish weaving balefire, she may not be able to complete the weave and erase her opponent, as she would instantly become a slave to Kahlan’s will and unable to attack her. She would probably abort her weaving before the balefire was actually formed.

“She repeatedly cautioned Rand on its dangers, and I might be wrong, but I believe she only ever used when fighting Be’lal. She may not consider Kahlan a big enough threat to use balefire in the first place. I’m not sure if there is a clear winner to this fight, there are just too many ifs.”

She didn’t really fight Be’lal, it was more of a stealth strike. As soon as he noticed her, she blasted him before he could counterattack.

The only instance of Moiraine using balefire outside of that incident was, I believe, earlier in “The Dragon Reborn” when she, Perrin, and some others were being chased by Darkhounds, which she balefired.

But yeah, how willing Moiraine is to use balefire depends on the level of threat she believes Kahlan poses. If she mistook her for one of the Forsaken, for example, she would almost certainly use balefire immediately, as it is the only weapon she has that is really capable of permanently destroying them. Otherwise, she may resort to more basic weaves, which not not be completely effective against Kahlan. While she has comparatively little magical defense most of the time, ConDar!Kahlan was able to effectively dissolve mixed additive/subtractive spells at a distance at the end of the first book.

“Yeah, it was so pitiful to see a Forsaken beaten that easily…”

Though the other Forsaken at the end of that book sure book up one hell of a fight against Rand. That was how an elite lieutenant of the Dark One should have conducted himself.

“Kahlan would probably come up with a plan to fool Moiraine into thinking she isn’t a threat or is even an ally, and then whammy her with Confession when she gets close enough.”
Back up…Moraine trusts absoloutely no one except Lan and maybe Siuan, and even not her completely. Considering we are setting them up to kill each other, I doubt Kahlan could convince Moraine let her get within a few yards (though realistically they would probably be working together anyway).
“She has the advantage in intelligence.”
Moraine is an expert in manipulation. Easily, she pulls strings to get people to do what she wants, how she wants it. She is so practiced people fully aware of her manipulation powers still fall victim to it, sometimes while realizing what she is doing. The only person she ever had any real trouble with was Rand al’Thor, and she found a way to gain his trust, and he is following her advice even now that she is dead.
Any LOST fans out there? I’d love to see a battle of manipulation between Moraine and Benjamin Linus on factpile.

Something Kahlan may be able to use in defense against Moraine…
In Temple of the Winds, Kahlan was able to access the Con Dar by convincing herself Shota was out to harm Richard. As it turned out, Shota was trying to help Richard, but the truth of the matter was not important. My point is if Kahlan somehow convinces herself that her dying would harm somebody she loves, or Moraine living would do the same, she would be able to Confess her from a distance or unleash blue lightning. Still would not matter if Moraine cast balefire though…

“In Temple of the Winds, Kahlan was able to access the Con Dar by convincing herself Shota was out to harm Richard. As it turned out, Shota was trying to help Richard, but the truth of the matter was not important. My point is if Kahlan somehow convinces herself that her dying would harm somebody she loves, or Moraine living would do the same, she would be able to Confess her from a distance or unleash blue lightning.”

Since that doesn’t require Richard to be in the battle, it might work. I have to wonder if Moiraine has a method of blocking Subtractive Lightning.

“Well, I’m pretty sure an ordinary shield could do it, as saidar has both Additive and Subtractive Magic. Its the confessing from a distance I’m more worried about. Hmmmm…since Kahlan is technically using magic, could Moraine shield or even still her power? I know Zeddicus said a Confessor’s power cannot be taken away, but it was blocked in Temple of the Winds…”

The blocking seemed more of a mind block than her power actively being sealed away, as she simply needed to remember how to use it in order for the power to activate. However, a shielding weave would very likely put any Confession possibilities out of commission.

I doubt Moiraine could still her on the spot, however. Usually that requires thirteen Aes Sedai, and the only ones we’ve seen capable of possible stilling on the spot are powerhouses like Nynaeve or Moghedian, who are vastly above Moiraine’s level.

Moiraine’s biggest worry would be Kahlan confessing her before that can happen. Kahlan uses her power instinctively as her primary defense in a bad situation, so if she fighting Moiraine she’d probably use it immediately. Moiraine, on the other hand, would possibly use a tamer method than balefire or shielding against Kahlan, like maybe forming an Air weave to knock her out or something. Moiraine doesn’t quite possess the lightning channeling speed that Lanfear or Rand demonstrates and she sometimes uses hand gestures or a vessal(such as her staff) to guide her, so speed might be an issue.

“Well, I’m pretty sure an ordinary shield could do it, as saidar has both Additive and Subtractive Magic.”

I think that might be jumping to conclusions a bit. From what I understand, every woman draws different amounts of powers from Saidar and there are some powers that some have and weaker ones don’t. I wouldn’t assume that anyone who channel Saidar “automatically” has A and S unless they’ve explicitly shown weaves that do both those things.

For a modern Aes Sedai, Moiraine is pretty high up on power, though not much compared to those with “ancient” power levels like Lanfear or Elayne.”

I’d say Moraine would be in the top 10% of living Aes Sedai, not including Forsaken. So Moraine would probably be able to shield Kahlan, but, then again, we have never seen her shield. That could possibly be something she is not good at, like how some sisters, or even some Forsaken, are terrible at Healing…That’s a rather low chance, however, as it seems a rather common skill…

So, to sum things up…

Kahlan will not be able to get close enought to Confess Moiraine using only Additive magic. If she somehow manages to make Con Dar, she could win unless Moiraine decided to use balefire.

Moraine can immoblize Kahlan, blast Kahlan with fire, possibly shield her from using her powers, blast Kahlan with balefire which would undo any damage Kahlan could manage to do beforehand (though she only uses balefire in emergencies).

I’d say Moiraine Damodred for the win….