Here’s a match that should start a few fireworks. Both are massive and carry a ton of power. In the end, maneuverability may be the key to victory…
Who do you think wins this?
Here’s a match that should start a few fireworks. Both are massive and carry a ton of power. In the end, maneuverability may be the key to victory…
Who do you think wins this?
March 3, 2009
#1
Definately Rex, if Master Chief can beat a scarab, Barney could.
March 3, 2009
#2
yes,says the guy who has no idea who master chief even is.
March 3, 2009
#3
My vote is for the scarab
March 3, 2009
#4
while i have no info on the metal gear rex. one must remember while yes the beam is slow the scarabs main gun is plasma. really just a large version of the hunters gun. so that said it is also much much more powerful. and so i am wondering how powerful is metal gear rex’s armor? can it withstand plasma?
March 3, 2009
#5
The Rex is far more maneuverable than the scarab. The scarab has its boost but that could only help so much. Rex will run behind it, shoot off the back panel and hit the power core.
March 3, 2009
#6
“can it withstand plasma?”
not for long but the problem is hitting it. The scarab’s gun is limited by the movement of the head and REX could easily say out of the gun’s sights.
March 3, 2009
#7
I don’t know anything about the Rex, but I think I remember reading somwehere that it has Nukes…
March 3, 2009
#8
“can it withstand plasma?”
they only need to destroy the radome,then the rex pilot will be firing blind.
March 3, 2009
#9
“not for long but the problem is hitting it. The scarab’s gun is limited by the movement of the head and REX could easily say out of the gun’s sights.”
and that goes to the AA gun ontop of the scarab.
“Rex will run behind it, shoot off the back panel and hit the power core.”
that all hinges on the fact WOULD the rex know said way to stop the scarab?
March 3, 2009
#10
“they only need to destroy the radome,then the rex pilot will be firing blind.”
not exactly, it will cause the pilot to have to open the cockpit ad plot it by eyesight.
March 3, 2009
#11
Both are incredibly clumsy, neither REX or the Scarab have any particular advantage in terms of maneuverability (Watching REX operate in the Hanger bay is akin to witnessing Bambi for the first time), if anything, the bipedal Metal Gear is at a MASSIVE disadvantage in a contest of agility.
This is a matter that must be resolved through firepower and firepower alone.
What we must remember is that Metal Gear REX is primarily a ballistic missile delivery platform, armed with a myriad of anti-personnel weaponry for instances that its whereabouts are discovered by hostile forces, such as a pair of 30 mm Vulcan cannons, pod launched anti-tank missiles and a free-electron chemical laser with a limited output and range. As proven in Halo, none of the above weapons are really suited for permanently damaging or immobilizing the Scarab in combat.
And let’s face it, although the Titanium compound armour of REX seems impregnable, anything stronger than a 20th century Stinger missile (Such as a HEAT or SABOT round) is going to damage the hull. Anything within the range of Covenant level technology is going to turn the Metal Gear itself into molten slag very quickly.
In lieu of this, the Scarab is classified as an “Ultra Heavy Assault Platform”, designed to be anti-personnel, anti-tank, anti-air, essentially anti-everything. Besides the shielded primary cannon (Which fires a four second long stream of Super-Heated Plasma), which would devastate the Metal Gear in a single blast, you have a multitude of mounted anti-aircraft turrets (Firing 600rpm of Plasma) which could quite easily pocket REX full of holes within seconds.
Admin, this is a no-brainer. You’re pitting a 21st Century Ballistic Missile platform against a Covenant era Assault vehicle over four times the size of the Metal Gear. In fact, REX would be lucky to even get a shot off at the reactor given its severe height disadvantage, it would be like giving a Midget a Blunderbuss. Too hilarious for words.
March 4, 2009
#12
L-W, I love your comment on the REX, Midget with a blunderbuss indeed.
Also, in the rare event that the REX did slip past the Scarab’s main weapon it has a number of measures designed to deal with point blank combat. Firstly, there are three plasma turrets designed to cover the blind spots of the main cannon and the top mounted anti-aircraft turret. Secondly, Scarabs are always equipped with a small contingent of troops (usually a mix of brutes, grunts and jackals) led by a Brute Chieftain with a Fuel Rod.
March 4, 2009
#13
im thinkin rex would win scarab has a lot more fire power than rex but rex is a lot more manuverable and has decent weapons as well its would be a long battle but i think that rex’s ability to avoid will pull out the win
March 4, 2009
#14
sigh im way to lazy to read ur long posts
)
i think that some blasts from the scarab gun would do it. It practically blows any vehicle in halo away though that is only my idea
March 4, 2009
#15
“rex is a lot more manuverable” Really? cyborg your an idiot did you not read anything L-W wrote.
March 4, 2009
#16
“that all hinges on the fact WOULD the rex know said way to stop the scarab?”
The pilot would have to know, but that is pretty much a roll of the dice.
March 4, 2009
#17
“The pilot would have to know”
why would he have to know?
not like he has contact with the UNSC…..
March 4, 2009
#18
So none of the mounted weapons on board REX can actually harm a Scarab, not even those 102mm High-Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) rockets it fires from its shins. Whilst the Radome (Which can be undone with a single Plasma bolt by the way) is the only means of externally interfacing with the environment…
…In which case the pilot has to OPEN his cockpit, not open a visor or find an alternate A/V feed, but he has to directly open the entire cockpit like a gaping maw that exposes not only the ENTIRE nerve center of the machine but also the Pilot itself. You’re exposing the pilot to extremely accurate bolts of Plasma with a temperature in excess of at least 10,000K each (More than five times the boiling point of Titanium – Which REX is composed of).
Are you kidding me?! Have we gone so far down as a collective that I have to explain the OBVIOUS to everyone?
As for the Scarab reactor core, you do realize that REX is only a 1/4 of the height of a Scarab, right? With most of its weapons designed for close proximity anti-personnel use? Never mind if it even knew where the primary weakness of the Scarab was, it would never even be able to strike it in the first place.
March 4, 2009
#19
“why would he have to know?”
he would have to know to be able to beat a scarab. I said nothing about contacts in the unsc.
March 4, 2009
#20
“he would have to know to be able to beat a scarab. I said nothing about contacts in the unsc.”
while L-W is correct. id like to point out that im pretty sure you dont enter the fight knowing your enemys weakness. if a MG REX just happened to come across a scarab with no info what so ever on it. he instantly gains info on how to destroy it?
March 5, 2009
#21
ooopss sorry i got rex confused with ray
but jeez x on arent you wound on a bit tight lol
March 6, 2009
#22
@swifterdeath: lets say that after somehow dodging the main scarab cannon rex gets behind it to avoid another shot and accidenly discovers the weak back panel. Thsn rex would need no prior knowledge. Just a thought.
March 6, 2009
#23
” lets say that after somehow dodging the main scarab cannon rex gets behind it to avoid another shot and accidenly discovers the weak back panel. Thsn rex would need no prior knowledge. Just a thought.”
but tell me how would he discover the back panel to be weak? it he aiming all his fire at said back panel just becouse it somehow looks weak?
did you even take anything L-W said into consideration?
March 6, 2009
#24
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March 6, 2009
#25
“but tell me how would he discover the back panel to be weak? it he aiming all his fire at said back panel just becouse it somehow looks weak?
did you even take anything L-W said into consideration?”
I simply assumed that in a fight REX would be getting all the shots off it can, and notice that the back panel would be weak while shooting everywhere it can. I’m not saying this is how it would happen, it simply could happen.
And yes, yes i did take what L-WE said into consideration. Let me quote myself:”Just a thought.”
You see, I was not even making an important argument, just thinking through my keyboard, so go pounce on someone else’ comments for a change.
March 6, 2009
#26
“I simply assumed that in a fight REX would be getting all the shots off it can, and notice that the back panel would be weak while shooting everywhere it can. I’m not saying this is how it would happen, it simply could happen.”
my main thing for it figuring out the back panel is weak. yes it getting its shot everywhere. but would it not notice the leg’s weakness first? it just would be plain easier for it to fire at hte leg.
“Let me quote myself:”Just a thought.”
i must have missed that part in how you used it. the intention i was getting was this was how your thoughts of it winning was. not a simple thought.
“You see, I was not even making an important argument, just thinking through my keyboard, so go pounce on someone else’ comments for a change.”
my whole reason for said ‘pounce’ was that you made no move that you thought the Rex lost. in all your posts it seemed you defending rex still thinking of him as the winner.
March 6, 2009
#27
I never really defended the REX after my first post. I think it can win with some luck and fast learning on the pilot’s behalf, but that is about it.
March 6, 2009
#28
Yes Mata, major facepalm.
How many times do I have to repeat the same point until it sinks in?
March 6, 2009
#29
i dont play either game so i couldnt realy say but to me the rex looks like a light biped fighter mech which cant go against a heavy mobile destroyer platform that the scarab looks like so i would say scarab btw whats that thing mata posted?
March 6, 2009
#30
“I think it can win with some luck and fast learning on the pilot’s behalf, but that is about it.”
Those aren’t really substantial reasons.
Beyond mechanical of environmental calamities (That we often dismiss) how is REX supposed to be “lucky” in such a scenario, and how (Depending on the variable of prior knowledge or experience) is the pilot supposed to strike the Scarab reactor core?
March 7, 2009
#31
Um…..Yeah…..Major facepalm…..Danm resistance 2 sapping away my time!!
March 22, 2009
#32
yay! someone listened to my idea
anyway rex wins cos he has railgun
March 22, 2009
#33
rex details:Length:18.9m Height:13m Weight:505.450kg
Phaland FTAT-3 rapid guided ati-troop missiles. high energy laser. 2xg12.7mm gatling guns. magnetic railgun that can launch a untracable nuke to anywhere in the world.
armor type: laminate and steel
March 22, 2009
#34
“rex wins cos he has railgun”
A railgun that can only be armed with a low yield ballistic missile designed for long range ordinance delivery. Even if this weapon could fire at close ranges (Which it cannot), Scarabs are renowned for absorbing several direct shots from orbiting MAC delivered ordinance, so I doubt that REX would be victorious on that basis alone.
“length:18.9m Height:13m Weight:505.450kg”
Less than half the size of the Scarab. Wow.
“FTAT-3 rapid guided ati-troop missiles”
The Scarab can deflect HEAT based Anti-Tank missiles and even low yield artillery fire.
“high energy laser”
Scarabs have been proven to sustain even more damage than this minor chemical laser can output, of which is limited to extremely close ranged combat.
“2xg12.7mm gatling guns”
Guess what this sound is *Ping! Ping! Ping!*.
“magnetic railgun that can launch a untracable nuke to anywhere in the world.”
This is not a nuclear war.
“armor type: laminate and steel”
Actually it’s Titanium. Either way, both alloys would easily become molten slag when exposed to Covenant plasma based ordinance.
March 28, 2009
#35
someone do rex vs a weaker opponent please
March 28, 2009
#36
I agree completly with L-W. Oh and these battles arnt designed to be around the world bu just in an area abuot up to 10mi around. that means a nuke going off would kill them both.
April 1, 2009
#37
first off, Rex is quite agile, just watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTETEBI4q2c&feature=PlayList&p=9419F7E4B2E5460F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=23
second this fight’s winner really depends on the situation, if it’s an arena type fight (close range) then the Scarab will be the victor due to it’s incredible armor and heavy weaponry. If it’s an open arena (long range) then the winner will be Rex due to the fact that Rex is able to rain nukes down upon the Scarab
April 1, 2009
#38
Rain nukes? It can only carry one comparatively low yield nuclear warhead, which requires the entire logistical support of the Military infrastructure to accurately launch.
Since there are no third parties present in this fight, the nuclear option is only viable if REX could somehow accurately fire an ICBM whilst blind. Accurate for the average ICBM being “Off by just a few hundred miles”.
April 5, 2009
#39
The missles were the only thing the rex had, without them, it is useless against the scarab.
May 5, 2009
#40
A few points.
First of, the muzzle velocity of a rail gun is apporximately mach 7. At those velocities, an iron slug could tear through a battleship length-wise. Ammuntion is anything that can fit between the rails; the rails are magnetic and will hold the projectile to the rails.
Next, the raydome allows for extreme engagement ranges, far outranging the scarab which doesn’t even seem to notice the player at over a mile. Granted, noticing a radar permiable footsoldier with a radar reflective background (metal hanger), but radomes are ment for range and it is difficult to miss something as big as a scarab.
Next, if you’ve played through MGS4, you realize that REX is moderately maneuverable. It still handles like a brick with legs, but it has decent response time and can strafe to a degree. The best equivalent I can think of is the Armored Cores mid-weight with really bad boosters.
Next, the AT missiles REX uses are quite large, atleast 5 feet long and 3 feet in diameter. Considering missiles the quarter of the size of standard ATGMs can disable the scarab, it’s a safe bet that REX can cripple the covenant walker in a single volley. Granted, the scarab main cannon is considerably more powerful, but takes time to charge and lacks the recycle rate of the missiles.
Summing in up, REX has the advantage in close range with maneuverability, mid range with multiple AT missiles, and long rage with the combination of Radome and Rail Gun. Now I will grant you, the only way to kill the scarab is the core in the rear, but the weak point on modern tanks is the rear armor and the core is mighty suspicious.
May 5, 2009
#41
The rail gun is carrying a useless(in this case) nuke.
The radome can be destroyed.
Scarabs can take heat based anti-tank missles.
MG still loses.
May 6, 2009
#42
“First of, the muzzle velocity of a rail gun is apporximately mach 7. At those velocities, an iron slug could tear through a battleship length-wise.”
Too bad it is designed to utilize a single ICBM, and in no canonical instance can it contain any other material or projectile.
“but radomes are ment for range and it is difficult to miss something as big as a scarab.”
Too bad most of the mounted weapons are nigh useless even at long ranges.
“Next, if you’ve played through MGS4, you realize that REX is moderately maneuverable. It still handles like a brick with legs, but it has decent response time and can strafe to a degree. The best equivalent I can think of is the Armored Cores mid-weight with really bad boosters.”
Still insufficient to remain outside of Scarab weapons range, especially since the other weapons have a far greater turning radius than the front mounted cannon.
Plasma beats laminate steel.
“Next, the AT missiles REX uses are quite large, atleast 5 feet long and 3 feet in diameter. Considering missiles the quarter of the size of standard ATGMs can disable the scarab”
Talk about a hyperbole. Those are conventional 21st century close ranged anti-troop missiles, useful in engagements against infantry. Whilst potentially crippling against the weaker joints, they are hardly going to disable the entire platform. Considering it can easily withstand dozens of 90mm tungsten sheathed APS rounds to the hull of the main platform, AT-3 warheads would remain quite ineffective even in prolonged volleys.
Too bad none of this has yet to address the various other mounted weapons besides the main cannon, the massive size and weight discrepancy between both platforms or the fact that laminate steel has a melting point far below that of plasma ordinance.
May 6, 2009
#43
Talk about holes in arguments
First, Marche, the rail gun doesn’t carry an ICBM, just the warhead. Now the following may sound like technobable, but I can assure you that if you research the topics, you’ll find it scientificly sound.
When the uranium of the warhead impact the armor of the scarab, one of two events will occure. The first is that the dense uranium will plow through the scarab and keep traveling as dictated by newton. The second is that the uranium payload will rapidly compress.
When the fissionable material compresses, the critical mass level which is the minimum mass needed to mantain a nuclear reaction, drops. At the rate the uranium compresses, it will reach a super critical density, allowing nuclear decay to occur very rapidly, most of the uranium is triggered in the first nanosecond or two. It is this sudden release of nuclear energy that defines a nuclear detonation.
For those that don’t speak nerd, If the warhead is traveling fast enough hits something hard enough, it will explode. Please note this tactic will only work with targets within line of sight.
Just to get this out of the way, Rex is listed as armed with dual 30mm cannons, Anti-Tank missiles, and an Anti-Personel laser. You can youtube “rex vs Ray” and see for yourself.
The crew would be slaughted by 30mm rounds and soft killed by AT missiles. The anti-air armament never seems to attack ground targets.
Covenent hand weapons never blow off limbs or send bodies flying so they aren’t enough to get titanium anything but warm and pitted. Granted, plasma is hot enough to vaporize titanium, but it’s all for naught if the energy isn’t focused enough to blast Through a single human target.
While 90mm rounds never seemed to kill a scarab, hits to the legs could send it into shock. Multiple missile hits, even obsolete hits, would produce the same effect, stunning the purple beast. While this alone is not enough to slay the scarab, the armor over the core is destructable while the core it’self is quite vulnerable.
As for that remark of anti-personnel missiles,wait, WHAT?! Anti-personnel missile?! Wiskey Tango Fox!? Can you name one? Can you google one? How about Wikipedia? No? Then take the word of a gun nut, THERE ARE NO ANTI-TROOP MISSILES, bullets not withstanding.
Now I will grant you, modern metals and most ceramic plates can’t withstand the torrent of energy from the main gun, but REX still has a defense, the dash function. Granted, Liquid, being the douche that he is, never used it, but metal gear REX does have one. This is a paltry defense against a contiuous stream of energy, but it is a defense.
On the otherhand, a scarab is but dust before a nuclear warhead.
Size alone means little, the Bismark was killed by airplanes, the deathstar was killed by X-wings, Russia once got it’s ass handed to it by Japan. Listen to wise Yoda “Size matters not”. Even in bed, a full 12 inches means little when your erection lasts 10 seconds.
Finally, the scarab is an excavation machine at heart. Metal Gear is a weapon of war/anihilation. When it comes down to which is better built, you can bet your ass that the people that actually understand their tech are going to know how to use it best.
May 8, 2009
#44
As we see again Belisaurius doe’s not know what the hell he is talking about and can’t read every one feel sorry for him again.
May 8, 2009
#45
Look pal, the only thing that has holes in it is your analysis and Metal Gear Rex’s hull, after being pocketed by plasma fire:
1) Actually, even at the speeds necessary to place an AGM-129 ACM warhead (The W80 is the variant used in Rex’s missile launching capacity) in low orbital reentry, the impact will only generate a KE rating of 3929376 joules (3.929376 megajoules) due to the fact that the ACM warhead is an aluminum encased air burst missile intended for a primary terrestrial targets.
Even if you scale up the imparted energy to compensate for the 200kt yield present in modern W84 warheads and electromagnetic acceleration (For example, let’s say within a vacuum) you only produce a distribution of KE measured at 135 gigajoules, equal to 32 tons of explosives. The Uranium itself does not present a solid core, instead it is a series of plated layers suspended in Polystyrene foam and various other dampener alloys designed to prevent the core from achieving accidental supercriticality; a useful design feature if a high speed delivery system were to impact with the contents of a nuclear warhead. (See Broken Arrow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_nuclear_incident_terminology#Broken_Arrow) If the mass of fissile material did impact and somehow coalesce at such speeds, it would no doubt cause a “prompt critical” reaction and a burst of hard radiation as a result, the effects of which would most likely become apparent to any Covenant forces stationed outside the hull without sufficient protection; but judging from their personal combat gear, the effects of such an incident would take weeks to become apparent in present organisms.
In the case of the Scarab, her armoured hull has been depicted as to survive several blasts from the mounted MAC cannon of the Spirit of Fire, which fires 600 ton slugs of either ferric Tungsten or depleted uranium at 30,000 m/s, which equals 58 kilotons of explosive power against a stationary target. ultimately it only takes a minimum of two slugs to penetrate and destroy the interior of the hull, but it certainly suggests that an aluminum encased W80 warhead would prove an insufficient penetration device.
It would make more sense to arm the warhead with a proximity fuse, although with a 200 kiloton blast it would make sense to dial it down somewhat as to avoid the repercussions of such a large blast (the one that flattened Hiroshima was only 18 kilotons) at close range. This is a delicate procedure, to which the Rex pilot is limited to only one chance.
2) Whilst the repelling party would no doubt remain vulnerable to weapons fire (The driver and gunnery crews would remain safe), Rex is firing up at a target more than four times its own height, meaning the cockpit section is going to be straining upwards at an almost obscene angle to compensate.
But throughout combat, the head section continuously faces downwards and hunches forwards, in fact whilst ambulatory it is very rarely (If ever) horizontal to the rear pod in which Snake and Liquid fought in hand to hand combat all those years ago. The only time it is ever above an angle parallel to the rear pod is when forcefully mounted by an equal or greater mechanical force. The angle of the neck strut seems to suggest that it is structurally impractical for Rex to look up (I could make a “Dogs can’t look up” joke right now), as throughout the Rex Vs. Ray sequence it continuously hunches forward during full ambulatory and defensive polymerization.
3) Actually, to cause the explosive explosive destruction of limbs and other organic materials requires an inordinate amount of energy displaced into a single area at once. But in the Halo Graphic Novel (Halo is rated 16+, explosive body parts often garner an R18+ stamp on most games) plasma rifle fire is depicted as detonating concrete, spreading molten ejecta at a two meter radius and even penetrating straight through (In and out) the titanium body armour of an ODST Marine.
With an energy distribution of eight megajoules per shot (In small plasma pistol shots), single plasma bolts can generate over 10,000 Kelvins worth of heat (Three times the boiling temperature of titanium) and have been depicted as rapidly evaporating Titanium-A body ceramic armour upon impact, usually killing a human with the rapid expansion of molten metal and various ejecta from the impact before the plasma can even do its job. The beauty of the alloy in question being the fact that it has a high tolerance for heat and can quite easily dissipate it upon impact, in which case a Marine has the opportunity to uncouple and remove his body plating before it continues onwards to his exposed flesh (Which to plasma is nothing).
Steel laminate plating on the other hand has a remarkably lower heat based dissipation rate, and as seen in the Fall of Reach, steel structures provide little to no protection from plasma, with bolts often passing through with limited loss to the structural integrity of the bolt. In the case of Rex, his plating will provide paper thin protection to the slagging abilities of Covenant plasma.
4) Mechanical stress (as opposed to psychological stress) is expressed in units of force divided by area, and it is conceptualized as the load acting normal to a plane surface, divided by the area of that plane surface.
This cross-sectional area is often referred to as the “load-bearing area”. For example, if the load-bearing area is 5 m squared and the bar is supporting a 100,000 ton mass against the force of gravity, then the stress would be roughly 2E8 N/m squared, or 200 MPa (structural steel yields at ~260 MPa, in case you’re wondering).
The critical factor is the load-bearing area. The length of the bar doesn’t help at all, and you can verify this with an experiment. Get a length of good high-quality rope, tie one end to a solid post, and try to pull on the other end until it breaks. Does it matter how long the rope is? No. You could cut a 100 foot length and it would be no stronger than a 1 foot length. So the moral of this story is that the load-bearing capacity of our bar is affected by changes in width or height, but not by changes in length. If you scale the bar up by a factor of 100, then its volume will increase by a factor of 1 million but its load-bearing area will only increase by a factor of 10,000.
Which suggest that if the surface area of Rex is compromised in the least, structural integrity begins to decline rapidly. Whereas the Scarab already demonstrates the integrity of the available material (Sans absorbing MAC rounds) when it possesses a mass to surface area ratio far greater than that of Rex.
What does that suggest? The Scarab can survive any shock in its structural integrity far more easily than Rex can survive a minor equivalent of. This also alludes to the amount of surface area the Scarab presents to the ground, improving its stability over the bipedal Rex.
5) Actually the Phalanda F(AT-3 “Rain From Heaven”) Rapid guided anti-troop missiles used by Rex were once part of the Chinese AT-3 Anti-Tank missile family, until it became obsolete due to the mass availability of reactive armoured compounds to even relatively “primitive” Tank producing nations. It was then retrofitted with an IR/wireless remote system for Helicopter deployment, so it could utilized as an effective missile platform against stationary infantry positions such as gun nests or occupied garrisons.
Considering Rex is a black ops project, the use of Chinese missiles (At the Fox Archipelago laying south-west of Alaska in the Bering sea) is hardly that much of a surprise.
6) The Main cannon is not the only offensive measure, in fact it utilizes three Type-52 mounted weapons with a rate of fire equal to 300rpm, firing bolts capable of penetrating clean through the titanium hull of a Pelican Dropship.
The rear mounted turret on the other hand is a scaled down Plasma cannon, with a higher rate of fire, a semi-homing projection ability (It has a decent compensation speed of around 60Km/h) and a swivel mounted turret pod, allowing for total coverage of the entire platform. This lone weapon was sufficient as to keep the Forward unto Dawn (A a heavily armed Frigate with a meter thick Titanium-A battle plate) from landing.
7) Size means a lot when the single coup de grace delivering weak point (Hit the red spots for maximum damage!) can remain elevated out of weapons range, or a single Scarab leg is larger than the entirety of the opposition craft, which a single violent brush could quite easily immobilize (As seen in Ray Vs. Rex, Rex doesn’t respond well to being pushed over).
Also:
A) The Bismarck was voluntarily scuttled after several hours of continuous shelling from superior British Destroyers who outnumbered it greatly.
B) Luke had the mobility to reach end of the trench, comparatively Rex is limited by severe height restraints, like a Child reaching up at an opponent of superior height.
C) The circumstances resulting in the 1904 war is an irrelevant comparison when Japan fielded a larger fleet in the region and lost more ships than Russia in suicidal canal dashes.
- – -
What I dislike most about your analysis is that it seems to work on the basis that the Scarab is completely inert and will not fire back, when we know that the Scarab will turn to face its opponent, will respond and maneuver with equal speed and will return fire with one of the five mounted weapons present on the platform, each one of which is nigh devastating and could be used to either disable the Radome, drown the cockpit in plasma and kill the lone pilot or reduce the entire structure to molten slag in a sustained volley.
May 8, 2009
#46
Alright, how is my argument invalid?
Should I quote sources?
May 8, 2009
#47
Alas i have never seen rex in action, having only an xbox 360.
But from what i can tell metal gear looks slightly fast compared to what we had to use to destroy the scarab, the scorpian. From what L-W says about the armormant the might be able to put a few pockmarks in it before its melted down to scrap metal. But if we had a smart drver he would take the timed advantage of the scarabs heat up for its primary shot (which is not actually a beam but a series of rapid shots as the covenant see it as heresy to mess with the forerunner tech more than allowed) Rex should try to run to the back and hit that plating off. then shoot some kind of missile in that sucker.
May 9, 2009
#48
Which once again totally ignores everything I’ve just said in my whopping 1700 word post.
Great, another ignoramus for the fire.
May 14, 2009
#49
Rex should try to run to the back and hit that plating off. then shoot some kind of missile in that sucker.
remember there were plasma turrets on every side of the scarab to make sure that didn’t happen. Plasma is 10,000 degrees titaniums melting point is 1,300 or somthing like that anyway the1 plasma cannon on the rear alone will melt REX. To make things worst for the REX the plasma cannon that shoots in burst located on its back has 180 degree turning so if REX got behind it he would still be taking VERY heavy fire.
how would REX even now were the core was anyway?
May 29, 2009
#50
You could have all the energy in the world, but it’s all meaningless if you can’t control it.
Plasma weapons are horrendously inefficient. The problem is that when the plasma hit the target, the super-heated gas tends dissappates rather that trying to burrow throw the target. While the ionized residue is effective against shields and energy based barriers, solid armor plates are less affected by such trivial things.
L-W, a Graphic novel sidestory is generally not enough to rewrite cannon.
This is why covenant weapons tend to be inferior to more primative weapons.
Also, L-W? Your sited source doesn’t describe the structure of warheads at all; it only listing terminology for nuclear incedents. Your description of the inner workings of a nuclear warhead are also counter-intuitive.
I’m also calling bullshit on your description of Metal Gear’s missiles. The rockets are listed in game as “AT Missiles”. They also lack the fragmentation or concussive blast waves typicly utilized by anti-personel\anti-troop warheads.
Uranium is also listed as a pyrophoric substance, which is to say it will ignite at room tempature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrophoric
My argument on size being a minor factor still stands as all three of the mentiond titans were crippled by inherent flaws in the design, much like how the scarab is a broken design that can be felled by a man on foot.
Modern main battle tanks and the scarab walkers share the same weakspot, it would not be too absurd to assume that Rex’s pilot would attempt to treat the scarab like a tank.
June 1, 2009
#51
1) Plasma weapons are horribly inefficient weapons (I’ve often believed that the magnetic sheath itself would make a far more effective energy transfer method), but that doesn’t change the fact that Covenant ordinance is depicted as vaporizing Titanium plating upon contact (In the Fall of Reach, a single plasma torpedo is seen to vaporize half a Halycon-class Cruiser), or burrowing through multiple layers of steel, mortar and concrete upon impact.
Whilst lacking the kinetic velocity of a slug like material, Covenant weapons do not function on the basis of delivering a mass at sufficient velocities to impart kinetic energy, instead it utilizes a reaction in which the energy level is so high within the compound (Hydrogen Fluoride in this case) that the electrons will not stay confined in their atomic energy shells, so they escape upon impact, with the intention being to release abundant levels of exothermic energy upon contact as the electromagnetic sheath dissipates. It is the internal energy of a hot plasmoid which damages the target, not the forward kinetic energy of any sort of ballistic.
With the magnetic propulsion system of the plasma cannon, the plasma bolt can continue to burrow through a target for as long as the resistive properties of the material in question is capable of dissipating the heat. Whilst most infantry scale weapons are purely “fire and forget” (With exception to the Needler), larger classes have the ability to manipulate and guide the propulsion of the bolt over greater distances.
2) Actually the Graphic Novel is canon, as are the other novels that depict instances of hand held plasma weapons firing bolts that are capable of penetrating multiple layers of armour and organic tissue.
3) Wow, and here was me thinking that you would know the basic structure of a W84 through basic research without me having to CITE a source.
The link I offered (If you had payed attention) described an incident known as a “Broken Arrow”, a code name issued by the US governments for accidents involving the loss of a nuclear warhead, the most common of which being the disappearance of said warhead through head on collisions of transport vehicles (Air delivery being the most common means).
Thus there are safety measures in place to prevent the accidental detonation of nuclear materials, such as:
A) One-point safety: While the firing of one detonator out of many will not cause a hollow pit to go critical, especially a low-mass hollow pit that requires boosting, the introduction of two-point implosion systems made that possibility a real concern.
In a two-point system, if one detonator fires, one entire hemisphere of the pit will implode as designed. The high-explosive charge surrounding the other hemisphere will explode progressively, from the equator toward the opposite pole. Ideally, this will pinch the equator and squeeze the second hemisphere away from the first, like toothpaste in a tube. By the time the explosion envelops it, its implosion will be separated both in time and space from the implosion of the first hemisphere. The resulting dumbbell shape, with each end reaching maximum density at a different time, may not become critical.
B) Steel ball safety method: As shown in the diagram, one method used to decrease the likelihood of accidental detonation used metal balls. The balls were emptied into the pit; this would prevent detonation by increasing density of the hollowed pit. This design was used in the Green Grass weapon, also known as the Interim Megaton Weapon and was also used in Violet Club and the Yellow Sun Mk.1 bombs.
C) Chain safety method: Alternatively, the pit can be “safed” by having its normally-hollow core filled with an inert material such as a fine metal chain, possibly made of cadmium to absorb neutrons. While the chain is in the center of the pit, the pit can not be compressed into an appropriate shape to fission; when the weapon is to be armed, the chain is removed. Similarly, although a serious fire could detonate the explosives, destroying the pit and spreading plutonium to contaminate the surroundings as has happened in several weapons accidents, it could not however, cause a nuclear explosion.
4) Call bullshit all you want, but that’s the designation of the missiles used by Metal Gear Rex according to both the game and the novelization. If you have any issues, I suggest you take them up with Hideo Kojima.
5) I’m aware of the chemical properties of both enriched and naturally occurring Uranium samples, unfortunately even enriched Uranium samples are inefficient in releasing heat binding energy, with only 1-2% of the atomic mass (Superseding the concentration and amount of uranium-235 needed to achieve a ‘critical mass’ by a degree of 5%) actually reacting as a conventional oxide at room temperature; in fact it’s thermal conductivity is far below that of gold, requiring temperatures measured at 9.14 kJ·mol−1 to reach a state of super-criticality.
6) Do you mean “much like how the Metal Gear is a broken design that can be felled by a man on foot.”?
Let’s see, you have one Metal Gear disabled by the destruction of a vulnerable supercomputer, another annihilated by fragmentation grenades thrown at its feet (What were they using? Aluminum?!), Rex was bought down by a former Green Beret armed with a surface-to-air missile…
(If you want to talk about bad design choices, how about the fact that cockpit canopy opens once the radome has been destroyed?)
…Despite being an anti-Rex Metal Gear, Ray was immobilized during a battle with a handicapped Rex and a former Child Soldier reared as a soldier through extensive VR simulations managed to simultaneously fend off twenty five Ray prototypes with nothing more than a shoulder mounted surface-to-air missile.
At least the Scarab can claim destruction at the hands of a SPARTAN-II super soldier supported by the entirety of the UNSC military arm (Tanks, light and heavy aerial support etc.), meanwhile the Metal Gear project has had the distinction of being repeatedly hampered by a lone man armed with conventional explosive devices that are unfit to even destroy a Tank, let alone a supposedly invincible walking nuclear mechanoid.
7) Of course the Rex is going to aim for the weak spot, but once again your argument is founded on the single-minded belief that:
A) The Scarab won’t fire back for some reason or another.
B) Rex can even reach said weak spot.
C) The Scarab is going to allow itself to be flanked by a single target when it more than has the maneuverability to dictate the state of the terrain.
June 3, 2009
#52
1. In “The Flood” a technician was shot by a plasma rifle mid-torso. While the blast inflicted lethal burns, it also failed to penetrate his body. The effect is also noted in-game with plasma weapons being effective against shields, but less effective against armor. While plasma weaponry would eventually melt titanium armor, doing so would take time.
2. See above.
3. Of course, knowlage of nuclear weapon design isn’t exactly common knowlage.
4.I hate being an asshole but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA02xxwaOH8
Time: 2:02
Weapon is listed as AT MISSILE
Also, the video confirms the use of the dash function for rex.
5. Railgun, mach 7, close range (relatively), is any of this getting through?
any way, all isotopes of a particular element are chemically identical. If the warhead fails to detonate, the uranium will be pulverized by the impact and the resulting explosion will be much larger than that of a DU anti-tank round. Additionally, much of the force of impact will be turned into waste heat. At the supersonic velocities of a railgun, even ten percent of the inertia would be enough to fataly burn the crew complement and the exposed core. Also, only the chain method would have any chance of successfully preventing a nuclear detonation caused by a hyper-sonic impact.
6. Metal gear REX is an end boss, taken down with a truely absurd number of stingers and help from a cyborg ninja who was neigh invulnerable to conventional weaponry. Meanwhile, the scarab can be anihilated with 3 anti-tank rockets and an assault rifle. Additionally, REX was never destroyed in the traditional sense, rather, it was disabled and abandoned after successfully destroying RAY, quite possibly due to lack of fuel.
Also, Jack, aka Raiden, was both Solidus’s favorite child soldier and capable of killing multiple dead cell members as well as a harrier jumpjet while on foot. Your example speaks not poorly of RAY, but well of Jack.
7. Scarab has a longer recovery time than REX.
AT soft kill while the scarab is stunned.
Rex is more maneuverable than the scarab.
Admintedly, if it was liquid in the cockpit, my entire plan goes to crap since the guy is a true and utter moron.
June 3, 2009
#53
Correction to my previous post, the Anti-tank missile is listed as “Anti-Tank Missile” at 2:00-2:01
June 6, 2009
#54
1)
A) “Halo: Ghosts of Onyx”: Plasma munitions are demonstrated as passing through multiple layers of concrete and steel upon impact, warping and slagging even reinforced structures. A large Plasma bolt vaporizes a Spartan-III Trooper upon impact. Multiple steel structures are described as igniting a brilliant white.
“Something was wrong. 85 Pegasi-914A was supposed to be a faint yellow sun. This was electric blue—boiling plasma blue. He jumped, rolling to one side as the bolt washed over him. The outer layers of his Semi-Powered Infiltration armor boiled and peeled like a bad sunburn.”
B) “Halo: The Flood”: Multiple instances of plasma weapons being depicted as vaporizing titanium and Organic flesh upon contact.
As for the technician in question, he is described as suffering a paralyzing chest wound, the level of damage accumulated is not described.
“He heard the whine of plasma rifle fire, then felt something punch him in the
chest. His vision blurred, and he groped to feel the wound. His hands came
away sticky with blood.It doesn’t hurt, he thought.It should hurt, shouldn’t
it?”
C) “Halo: First Strike”: Multiple instances of concrete, steel and titanium being evaporated upon contact.
“Flight Officer Mitchell flinched as a stray energy burst streaked into the landing bay and vaporized a meter-wide section of bulkhead. Red-hot, molten metal splattered the Pelican dropship’s view port.”
“Ahead, the Pelican intercepted a second torpedo and burst into flames, vaporized, and smeared across the night as a cloud of sparkling ionized metal.”
“Fred had seen them in action; they fired an encapsulated blob of plasma that obliterated everything within twenty meters of impact. Titanium battle plate, concrete, or flesh—it all vaporized.”
“She took the initiative and fired at the closest four cruisers. Laser-fine plasma lanced from her turrets, burned though the Covenant shields, and split open their hulls. When the superheated gas came in contact with the atmosphere inside the ships, plastic, flesh, and metal caught fire and roiled throughout
their interiors. Two of the targeted cruisers immediately detonated as the
plasma beams found the reactors. Billowing clouds of vaporized
metal mushroomed across the night”.
D) “Halo: Fall of Reach”: Multiple instances of titanium battle plate and other materials being vaporized on contact. Entire Pelicans and Longswords are described as being bisected by Seraph plasma cannons.
E) “Halo: The Cole Protocol”: A few instances of plasma causing environmental and structural damage, single bolts are depicted as severely injuring or killing a fully armored marine/ODST as the armour vaporizes upon contact, and can melt through several layers of Spartan armor.
2) See above. Whilst titanium is effective at dissipating the heat of a plasma bolt through evaporation, the steel laminate that composes the hull of Rex is several grades lower than that of titanium.
It’s not going to warp, melt or even partially soften the hull, in fact it will most likely collapse the surrounding area of damage and launch molten ejecta upon contact. In fact the sudden explosive ignition of gasses upon the highly damaged structure of Rex would most likely cause total structural collapse within seconds.
This is how I foresee it happening:
A) The main cannon: Instantly turns the entirety of Rex to molten slag, leaving a cloud of metallic vapor.
B) The AA cannons: The smaller bolts would cause a reduced area of damage (Most likely meter wide holes at best), but their accuracy and rate of fire would quickly pocket the Rex full of holes within a matter of seconds. A quick volley aimed at the cockpit and the Rex is gone.
C) The rear mounted cannon: Whilst smaller than the main cannon, the rate of fire and turning speed allows it to pick off Rex with some ease. Could very easily demolish Rex in possibly just one hit.
3) Not that I would infer that it is.
4) Neither did I *not* refer to it as an AT missile. But that still doesn’t alter the nigh disputed fact that the missile is referred to as a Phalanga-F (AT-3 “Rain From Heaven”) Radio-Guided Anti-Troop Missile.
5) I’m more than aware of the physics associated with a hyper velocity rounds, are you?
A) A Scarab has been demonstrated as to survive multiple strikes from ship mounted MAC weapons, which fire 600 ton slugs of either ferric Tungsten or depleted uranium at 30,000 m/s. Whilst this speed would greatly diminish in the atmosphere, the UNSC method of magnetic propulsion is no doubt superior as intra-atmospheric slugs have been depicted as accelerating to 15,000 m/s; placing them within the theoretical limit of mach 45 in intra-atmospheric combat.
B) Even at those speeds the fissile mass coalesce would most likely coalesce at a state of fusion, it would no doubt cause a “prompt critical” reaction and a burst of hard radiation as a result, the effects of which would most likely become apparent to any Covenant forces stationed outside the hull without sufficient hazardous protection; but judging from their personal combat gear, the effects of such an incident would take weeks to become apparent in organisms present outside of the hull.
Anything inside the vessel will remain perfectly fine.
C) Even at impact, the core is not going to remain as a stabilized whole and will most likely scatter upon impact along with the remains of the casing. In this case you’ll have a series of randomly igniting aluminium shells and the occasional burst of white flame as the Uranium cases individually ignite.
Even if it somehow merges at these speeds (Which I doubt, considering the orthorhombic structure of Uranium), it is not going to cause any more damage than a wide scorch mark and the occasionally pitted surface.
D) You seem to be under the false assumption that a nuclear warhead functions in a similar manner to that of a DU tipped missiles, this is simply not the case. It is a series of plates divided by beryllium sheaths, tungsten, titanium and foam casings held aloft in an aluminium chamber. It’s an airburst Cruise Missile system, it simply does not have the penetrative properties that you imagine it does.
Even if the core magically remained stable impacting at these speeds, a Scarab has proven to survive worse.
E) Actually most of the methods I’ve listed are capable of halting a super-critical reaction in delivery systems measured at speeds of Mach 23. In fact your entire proposal just seems like a waste of a perfectly good missile to me, especially since Rex is only carrying one.
6) Apparently I was too subtle with this remark, so I’ll restate it in plain English as to prevent it flying over your head. It is fallacious to assume that the actions of characters in a narrative can be simplified to the point that their effects on the universe are indicative of its constraints.
Meaning? Rex and Ray can be equally bought down by infantry when circumstances in the plot favor their destruction (Example: The Cyborg Ninja dies whilst fighting the Rex, Snake fails to utilize the major glaring weakness), such as the unlimited ammunition scattered around the arena, the intervention of certain characters or the limitations placed on weaponry. Likewise it is fallacious to state that the Scarab has *only* been bought down by little old Master Chief (A Soldier insurmountably superior to the likes of Snake and Raiden) when he has relied upon plot convention, the combined might of the UNSC ground forces and the occasional assistance of Covenant Separatists.
7) Rex has a remarkably lower integrity than her opponent.
Scarab fires AA cannons, pockets her full of holes at 600 rpm, cripples the main structure.
Scarab kicks her puny frame over. Dead.
It’s easy to simplify battle plans, isn’t it?
June 6, 2009
#55
…My post is shorter than yours, yet you fail to read it, why?
1. It should be noted that the velocity of plasma weapons tend to be inversely proportional to their power. Case in point, the plasma pistol blasts travel faster than wraith main cannon shots.
I also noticed that the weapons in question are mostly anti-vehicle weapons.
Hell, the last quote for “First Strike” is actually reffering to cortana’s modified plasma weapons.
2. Last time I check, the armor was listed as compound armor. Compound armor implies a ceramic layer, which, in turn, would sugest a resistance to heat transfer. Without heat transfer plasma weapons are little more that hot air.
3. Then we are agreed that information regarding the design of nuclear weapons needs to be verified before being confirmed.
4. Now your being a twit, see the damn video already.
5. Bullshit on Scarabs surviving MAC strikes. Halo wars demonstrates that a scarab can be killed by orbital attacks.
6. Such statements also invalidate your own argument.
7. You forget the first rule of battle. The Plan is Fucked up as soon as it meets the Enemy.
We can go back an forth with who will do what, but ultimately, victory goes to the more flexible.
Granted, If liquid is the pilot, my entire argument goes down the drain, but then even a grunt would be more suited to REX than Liquid.
June 6, 2009
#56
“Last time I check, the armor was listed as compound armor. Compound armor implies a ceramic layer, which, in turn, would sugest a resistance to heat transfer. Without heat transfer plasma weapons are little more that hot air.”
Be that as it may how much resistance does the compound armor have against heat? Cause last time I checked plasma is a few thousand degrees Fahrenheit.
“You forget the first rule of battle. The Plan is Fucked up as soon as it meets the Enemy.”
Unless you have far more superior technology compared to your enemy, which is the case right now.
June 6, 2009
#57
“Bullshit on Scarabs surviving MAC strikes. Halo wars demonstrates that a scarab can be killed by orbital attacks.”
Bullshit on you being a fool they have it takes 2 Mac hits to down a Scarab.
June 8, 2009
#58
L-W pretty much disarmed REX in his post so you can stop now.
July 5, 2009
#59
Rex wins, it’s obvious, so now you can accept it.
Well, in fact, if he uses the IBMC it would end in a draw. And guess what genius?, it doesn’t need any accuracy to blow both of them.
July 5, 2009
#60
So how does rex win?
Its clear that it isn’t obvious,It has been debated to the contrary.
P.S
Rex fires no such thing as an IBMC
July 5, 2009
#61
The length of my post is only relative to the information I’m capable of offering per each post, which is certainly a lot more than the mini-bites of faux science you’ve been offering up.
1) Physics fail.
A) Velocity is of concern ONLY when the weapon system demands that the munitions are capable of striking the target in question. Plasma pistols are naturally used in close range combat, and are thus reserved for targets in the immediate vicinity. Cannons are reserved for long range engagements; their acceleration is dependent on the ability of the target to manoeuvre away during fire fights.
B) Plasma utilizes a reaction in which the energy level is so high that the electrons will not stay confined in their atomic energy shells, so they escape upon impact, with the intention being to release abundant levels of exothermic energy upon contact as the electromagnetic sheath dissipates. It is the internal energy of a hot plasmoid which damages the target, not the forward kinetic energy of any sort of ballistic.
C) Magnetic field lines are known to reorganize themselves in plasmas, converting magnetic to particle energy. Evidence harvested from the solar wind implies that the scale of the effect is larger than was thought, which is a convenient display of velocity since
The reconnection of magnetic fields that occurs in the ionized gases known as plasmas is a fascinating and enigmatic phenomenon. It transforms magnetic field configurations, converting energy stored in those fields into kinetic energy of the electrically charged particles that make up the plasma.
In fact heat is a function of the particles average velocity within their magnetic bonds (Magnitude average); we could move the particles until they get close to the speed of light before the plasma boundaries begin to collapse. At this velocity we begin to witness some interesting physical properties when the quantum states of two particles can be entangled. Until the free particles are observed, they exist in a superposition of two quantum states. If the particles are separated and one of them is observed to determine its quantum state then the quantum state of the second particle is determined automatically through superconductivity. Fortunately, if the plasma bolt reaches these velocities not much would be left in the immediate environment as a result.
A review was presented of the studies in the former Soviet Union and in the USA of the mutual interactions of plasmas at high speeds. There are reports from as early as the 1980s of large changes in the standoff distance ahead of a blunt body in ballistic tunnels, significantly reduced drag and modifications of travelling shocks in bounded weakly ionized gases. Energy addition to the flow results in an increase in the local sound speed that leads to expected modifications of the flow and changes to the pressure distribution around a plasmid due to the decrease in local Mach number. There have been a large number of experimental studies on the influence of a weakly ionized plasma on relatively low Mach number shocks and inherently also on the influence of the shock on the plasma.
D) Plasma (Even when shaped by electromagnetic pulses) reforms into a sphere at relativistic velocities. The issue with projecting plasma is NOT velocity as most mistake, but through maintaining the coherency of the electromagnetic sheath that contains the plasma over a distance. The further away from the source the weaker the bolt becomes not due to resistance, but due to a lack of resistance.
E) The structural stresses imposed upon the Plasma bolt during even 1 m/s acceleration are huge. Let us imagine that the bolt’s interior is 10% gaseous, and composed of hydrogen. This would give it a surface area of 10cm squared (A very conservative figure since it unleashes energy with a mass-reactive equivalent of around 10Mj upon impact). This composite would, of course, also be the bearing stress the bolt as it travels (And it’s more than 300,000 times the yield stress of structural steel). How potent would bolts have to be? Let’s put it this way: if you took a jet engine of such nozzle pressure, and scaled it down to 1cm wide (Like a miniature version of the engine outlets on an F-15 Eagle), it would produce enough thrust to accelerate the 21 ton aircraft at roughly 330 million g’s!
When some simpleton looks at enormous sci-fi structures and concludes that anyone could generate them with enough raw materials, he is only betraying a pitiful lack of scientific knowledge, not to mention common sense. Have you ever seen the Tonka commercial where they shove a Tonka truck and real, full-size dump truck off a cliff? The Tonka truck bounces and clatters all the way down to the bottom, dented but intact. The full-size dump truck, on the other hand, crashes to the bottom as a twisted, barely recognizable pile of wreckage. The humorous subtext to the commercial was that Tonka trucks are tougher than the real thing, but the real story is as an object grows larger, its own mass becomes its worst enemy.
You can’t just “scale up” a design to make a bigger gun or a bigger bolt, even if you have the necessary raw materials. Bigger designs require entirely different engineering and construction methods, not to mention superior materials. Therefore stating the necessitation of an inverse law is fallacious where the scale of an electron soup is concerned.
2) So you’ve gone from saying that titanium is only slightly pitted by plasma (which was wrong) to saying that even as a composite armour, steel laminate is superior in dissipating heat to an alloy that has a higher heat threshold, against an exothermic chemical reaction that exists on a totally separate order of magnitude known to the 21st century (By my calculations the reaction would leak over 41,800,273 kelvins into the immediate environment)? Try and stop yourself from backpedalling so much.
Anyway, whilst conventional logic does state that given a sufficiently resistant material compound it should be possible to dissipate heat, what it fails to take into account is threshold. Every material has a mechanical threshold which has to be considered from an engineering perspective during construction. Armstech never had to take into consideration that their mobile missile platform would engage a target that could expose it to over 10,000 Kelvins of heat energy, thus they used steel laminate; a compound that has the ability to resist close quarters 21st century projectiles with some ease. The UNSC have been engaged in total war with an advanced alien empire for over two decades, the compounds they use are designed to resist the weapons presented by their alien counterparts; however they have yet to develop an armour that is not burnt away or simply evaporated on contact. Which of these two examples is more likely to have an effective counter-measure against Plasma? The 21st century engineer who is literally centuries away from conceiving plasma as a viable battlefield projectile, or the 26th century engineer who has over two decades worth of experience devising a resistive compound against a plasma wielding Empire and has thus far relied upon titanium, a “Space Age” transition metal with a greater threshold for heat resistance? It doesn’t take a genius to recognise that engineers have the capacity to understand the tolerance levels of such materials and when they are applicable.
Titanium-A Battle Plate uses Ceramic ossification to increase its resistance to heat. For example, ceramic titanium entering the atmosphere at 7.8 km/s (One hundred times the re-entry velocity of a Single Occupant Exoatmospheric Insertion Vehicle) would experience a peak shock layer temperature of 7800 K. This is often unexpected, since the kinetic energy increases with the square of the velocity, and can only occur because the specific heat of the gas increases greatly with temperature (Unlike the nearly constant specific heat assumed for solids under ordinary conditions). At typical re-entry temperatures, the air in the shock layer is both ionized and dissociated. This chemical dissociation necessitates various physical models to describe the shock layer’s thermal and chemical properties.
Yet despite its exoatmospheric properties, titanium-A and her known variants are vaporised *on contact* with Covenant plasma, their structures are not only severely warped, they simply cease to exist as their original structural states. Saying that steel laminate compounds are resistant to plasma is like saying that there’s no way the Death Star could blow up a small moon, when we’ve already observed it blowing up an entire planet. There’s a word in the scientific community for someone who refuses to acknowledge both the theory and observed proof, a zealot, to whom science may as well be nothing more than a religion used as a stranglehold on others.
All we’ve gathered thus far from this statement is that your knowledge of engineering and metallurgy has two major holes:
A) Mechanical limit: Iron is strong, why not use Iron for every metallic requirement? Who cares if it has shown a definite threshold to environmental factors that corrode or degrade its tensile strength?
B) Material dependence: The melting point of aluminium is 933K, therefore it can resist any amount of heat. Ever.
3) Good, then we know it’s an W84 warhead; thus the specifications are clearly available.
4) I’ve seen the video (in fact, I own the games), which still doesn’t change previous classifications.
5) That’s nothing, a prototype Super Scarab Assault platform can survive ten consecutive bursts from the Spirit of Fire.
6) Hardly, in fact it does nothing more than reinforce how simplistic your perception of narrative events are when judging the traits, abilities and individual values of a combatant. The fact that the greatest super-soldier of the 26th century needed the assistance of a space-borne military and a separatist alliance of the Covenant to even get as far as he did against the Scarabs does nothing for you, yet validates everything I’ve stated thus far.
Try not to get confused by conversely simplistic semantics.
7) Yes, because Rex has demonstrated itself to be amazingly flexible during combat. A large dish that is easily destroyed by direct energy weapons, no backup sensory systems, an exposed cockpit with no shielding and an armour plating that will last only several seconds against the lightest of Covenant weapons. Whilst the only weakness the Scarab can conveniently present is a shielded core that Rex would have to stand at her tippy-toes on a elevated platform to reach.
Judging from the Slave-I Vs. Enterprise debate it is clear you don’t understand the significance of such an uneven technological disparity.
July 6, 2009
#62
“Rex wins, it’s obvious, so now you can accept it.
Well, in fact, if he uses the IBMC it would end in a draw. And guess what genius?, it doesn’t need any accuracy to blow both of them.”
1) What on Earth is an IBMC? I believe you are referring to an ICBM, an intercontinental ballistic missile. In either case you are wrong, as Rex fires an AGM-129 ACM with W84 warheads attached; a short ranged (2,000 nautical miles) cruise missile system that is designed for close range missile penetration.
2) The ACM series is dependent on pinpoint accuracy to even correctly function, utilizing an inertial guidance system enhanced with LIDAR Terrain Contour Matching (TERCOM) satellite guidance; in fact just one missile required two separate operators just to stop it from slamming into the ground at high speeds.
3) Please return when you can demonstrate a marginal level of intelligence. If you have anything further to add, try and make it at least original.
August 2, 2009
#63
even assuming REX doesnt obliterate the scarab with a nuke, it has a railgun, missiles, machine guns and lasers if i remember correctly.
also: i think rex is more agile…
SHAGOHOD OWNS BOTH PLAYERS!
August 2, 2009
#64
Shagohod is even older than Metal Gear Rex.
August 2, 2009
#65
“even assuming REX doesnt obliterate the scarab with a nuke, it has a railgun,”
Which launches a nuke,which one person cannot.
“missiles”
Which will do what?The most it can hope to do is hit its legs,whilst the main gun on the scarab reduces REX to molten slag
“machine guns”
Again,won’t do much.
“lasers”
Minor chemical laser,again scarabs have taken tougher things.
August 2, 2009
#66
I think one thing that is forgotten alot is that the Scarab actually does have a great deal of agility. A good example would be the Ark level in Halo 3 in which a Scarab simply clambers over a gigantic pyramidal structure as if it wasn’t even there.
Also the scarab is essentially a gigantic cyborg due to it’s being the the body of a massive lekgolo colony, the same creastures that comprise the much better known Hunters.
Plus anyone who’s played Halo 3 has come close at least once, if not fallen prey to the Scarab’s very dangerous legs. If a scarab can skewer something as agile and small as a ghost it can crush REX easily.
December 28, 2009
#67
“Plus anyone who’s played Halo 3 has come close at least once, if not fallen prey to the Scarab’s very dangerous legs. If a scarab can skewer something as agile and small as a ghost it can crush REX easily.”
Superior technology AND agility. Things are not looking good for REX.
February 15, 2010
#68
midget with a blunderbus… lol
February 15, 2010
#69
But did it mean to stomp on the Ghost, or was it entirely accidental?