at least MC isn’t losing to guy right now from the stone age.

“This is so effin stupid… this whole arguement violates the Debating rules…
For Example:
1″-Incarnations
Current incarnations of characters are used unless otherwise specified.”
Altair in his most current, canon, ready to fight, wouldnt have intimate knowledge of the apple…”

Really. So the instant the game ended Altair got severely handicapped, was chained to a wheelchair and almost dropped dead. He lost all ability to fight, and the only thing he could do after this point was studying the Apple. Of course, that makes so much sense.

Altair would be able to fight for a long ime after the games ended. Of course, if we go with a playable version and that version only, he’s got problems. But, if we make the quite logical assumption that he learned some Apple tricks before getting handicapped and then go with this version, that would change things. Usually, making too many assumptions isn’t a very good idea, but Altair could use mind control with no training and Ezio could use the clone trick with no training. And here is a list of people who has used it.

Adam and Eve
Abel
Cain
Jesus (possibly)
Muhammad (possibly)
Girolamo Savonarola
Houdini
Napoleon

In addition to Al Mualim, Altair, Ezio and their respective orders, of course. The other, identical apples have been used by people like Gandhi, US Presidents, Nikola Tesla etc. Now, this does not really prove anything, I admit that, but all of these guys could use the Apple, and Altair showed some mastery with zero training. This is assumptions, but I say it’s much in favor of the idea that Altair can use this thing to good effect while still being in good physical condition.

If the entire idea of guesses is banned in general, I can see why one would ignore this.

“2″-Outside help
Outside help is not allowed in vs matches between combatants,a leader of a team cannot call someone for help.”
Altair gets 25 century weapons?? from where? there isnt knowledge of an attack coming… and i didnt notice any gun stores… the only thing i saw in game was a few police cruisers… and im pretty sure they dont have sniper rifles… and military weapons are locked up… to gain access we are looking at Altair losing a day or so…”

Now, I myself haven’t argued in favor of him running about with a splazor, but it’s sensible enough that he can steal some weapons if he uses the Apple to good effect. Still, I suspect the number of big guns will be limited. This one is pretty much right.

“3″-No Limit Fallacies
The no limits fallacy is the illogical idea that a poorly understood phenomena can be extrapolated to infinity or assumed to not have any maximum value or threshold.”

just because the apple can do X doesnt mean Altair can do X as well… especially since he hasnt been shown to do so… EVER….”

He could do minor mind control right outta the blue with no training. Later, he seemed able to dig into the vast amounts of knowledge the Apple gives and write an entire Codex about it. Altair and Ezio have both used some effect with no prior instruction, Al Mualim gained mastery FAST and Pope Alexander didn’t seem to have problems using the Apple after getting hold of it either. It’s rather safe to assume Altair can use the thing to good effect.

“5″-Standard Equipment In Versus Debates
Each side starts out with the equipment that they normally and have been shown to consistently carry on them. For example, Daredevil would have his billy-club, but Reed Richards would not have the Ultimate Nullifier.
In a scenario fight, the contestants in whose city/reality the fight takes place are allowed access to any material resources they usually have there or of any team they’re active members of, as long as they can reasonably get to them.”
The apple is not standard equipment… no matter how you slice it…
and even if it was how long does it take to learn things from it? if all altair made was a few weapons and some armor from the knowledge… in his WHOLE lifetime… apparently it takes a while…”

It’s not standard no matter how one slice it? I’d have to disagree. I mean there is nothing to suggest he didn’t bring the Apple everywhere after deciding on keeping it, like Ezio did. When gaining such a weapon it also seems plain weird to keep it at home while you go other places. I could accept it if someone has something supporting that view, though.

As for what Altair made, it was impressive. He built up and reformed the Assassin Order, hunted the other Pieces of Eden, made wrist mounted guns before anyone else made handheld guns, made an unbreakable metal, and a bit more. He did a lot in his life, so he wasn’t entirely dedicated to Apple research. Also, he had a very hard time getting materials. He lived in a ravaged land and was going to find the materials needed for all his projects in the middle of all the stuff he did? Constructing that unbreakable armor was a very good feat. Not to mention that he sought to seal the thing away towards the end of his life, shortening his time with the Apple.

Anyway, moot point as it’s the mind control powers that are important in an assassination scenario.

“6″Plot Induced Stupidity and Character Induced Stupidity”

so you are all assuming that-
A. Altair is going to learn everything about a city with a sprawling land mass over islands… that holds millions… vs the 80k or so in Jerusalem”

Not really. But he only needs a few key locations and persons, not every damn corner or every damn guy. Unless MC constantly runs all over the place, of course, in which case the Apple is handy in finding out what routes he takes.

“B. Avoid an avanced AI superintendant”

It hasn’t presented a problem for the last three days.

“C. Learn English”

His wife was english, so he should at least have some basic knowledge. If not and the Apple proves incapapable of helping, playing mute is an option.

“D. Learn 24th century customs”

A problem until he kidnaps some guy and make him spit out the basics. Fruit power.

“E. learn to use public transit (water seperates most of the city)”

That really isn’t the biggest of problems if he needs to. The fruit will again come in handy to make some guy help.

“F. learn advanced sniper tactics”

Not neccesary. He’ll order Chief to remove the helmet and shoot himself.

“G.aquire future military grade weapons (ONI might have some but they are on a protected Island”

Not neccesary.

“I. Find a supersoldier”

Easy. The project is public, he has Eagle Vision and there is a limited amount of places the chief is gonna reside.

“J.get past his energy shields”

Again, not neccesary.

“K.not get killed in the process”

Mind control the shit outta everyone in the vicinity for enough time to make a getaway.

The space station point is harder, though. If the chief really does that then the eagle will find himself bested.

Cortana was given to the chief on the pillar of Autumn before it was attacked and the from there on out he……wait this is after the attack is what im talking about……..forget what i said.

You’re not smashing shit. Anyway, I don’t have time to answer now, but rest assured, I haven’t run out of steam yet.

……..if it makes you feel any better you can smash the shit out of my post

Cortana is a micro chip with knowledge… Apple is the same… and no if I had an item like that it would be locked away except when i use it…

really? if the apple is standard equipment, I completely disagree… she is no more than an item… a super advanced iPhone… nothing more… you cant assign it as a person… because
Cortana can operate without the user just makes it a very advanced item… not a person… if Cortana’s battery dies… its worthless…

there are several swords in fiction that have sentient thought… but their owners can still use them…

One of the only fights MC would actually win. Altiar would’nt stand a chance against MC as none of his wepons could peirce MC’s MJONIR IV armour and The Apple is’nt included as it is’nt Altiars personal iteam.

I don’t have time to read all the comments. are we still arguing about whether or not Ali gets the apple?

@chewie… yes
@midnite… i knew you were logical…

i think the apple of eden sounds kind of like outside help because it helps altair and gives him info on stuff like cortana does MC.

No I’m talking about matches like Gordan Freeman vs Samus, Arbiter vs Orc Warboss, and more.

Mc for the win.

@ orph

- Stop complaining and actually act. Oh wait….. you already did…. that one was “Good.”

Considering M&M only said he recognized the trend and you actually went ahead and critised us for apparently being two-faced for treating fail matchs of this “era” differently then those beforehand.

The truth is that there were not so many in a direct line (in my memory) as it has been the case of late and to accuss of us being janused-faced is hardly appropriate when you yourself (no matter the intention) is part of this latest line of unfair scenarios.

My main point – Don’t bitch about us seemingly being hypocrites, when the fact is we have just been overloaded as of late. Indeed, if you think we’re treating the new matchs unfairly due to our past responses to one-sided matchs – Then act (submit more evenly matched scenarios) and stop and think that we might actually want to have a front page line up of a fair scenarios and perhaps one silly match instead of half silly – half serious.

” Besides what is there left to say ? What, you want me to say Altair wins ? The hell ?”

- Your putting motives and words in my comment that are hard to justify as being there in terms of meaning or purpose.

/End rant

Anyway, MC wins for there are too many “maybes” and “perhaps” for Altair to even get close to MC, when MC has only to have the city AI go – “THAT GUY IZ UNKNOWNZ, ARRESTED HIM!”

I’m displeased that there is no more opposition… or are they lurking… like… lurkers… /shifty eyes/

“but is the apple maybe outside help though?”

Until we determine that we’re kind of at a stalemate aren’t we.

stalemate means that neither side is gaining nor loosing ground.

“thank you and i think this post is officially no longer popular”T
he Altair fanboys are replaying the games trying to come up with some sort of defense…

Is this going to be like the Halo VS Star Wars debate? We all knew SW would win from the start but you get loads of Halo fanboys going:

“yh wel we wil light d halo ringz and kil evey1 !!!”
or
“mc wold get spartan lazerr and noooob ever1 !!”

We think its all over then someone posts

“Altiar would just sneak up and stab him”
or
“The Apple would stop him and Altair would then kill him”

Please Admin, just give Master Chief the FactPile Award and end this !

@ man

With standard kit – Hell no.

knives… wont… go… through… armour….
period…
MC for FP award…

Either way i think altair loses even with the apple so MC for the FP Award.

uhm, not to be an a$$ but no, altair would NOT get the apple. he has never been shown holding it. he has never been shown using it. only stories have been told of him using it, therefore it is not standard equipment. there is no canon behind a story someone can completely overtone to make altaïr sound beastly. cortana however IS standard equipment, she is an attachment to chief’s armor, which can be equipped or unequipped, therefore, she is equipment, and since she is with MC over 80% of the entire halo story, she is standard equip.

now, onto a different matter, how do you know the apple will affect MC, after all, it didn’t control altaïr’s mind, just held his physical body still. besides that how do you know cortanan couldn’t negate the effect completely on chief? she could easily tap into his armor and control him like a puppet while the apple was in effect.

plus you’re forgetting the fact that altaïr’s weapons wouldn’t be able to phase MC’s armor, MC’s armor can withstand bullets. a sword won’t do much good against it.

i second master chief for the FP award.

I third this vote for MC.

we already covered that truckman

First of I vote for MC, secondly at some point in this thread someone said the apple provides divine power. That statement isn’t exactly accurate. It does provide what humans of the time period considered to be divine, but in actuality it’s just an extremely high tech tool created by an alien race.