hmmm… im thinking snake would win.

most factors actually favor fenix in this fight except for stealth where snake is at his best.

but fenix has all that armor on him is usually prepared for snipers and the like and has an apparent vacuum chainsaw..

so im thinking if snake gets the fatal shot in quick then it is his but if he is seen or the kill shot doesnt work then fenix will probably take it

snake…
i think i have said it before…
adaptive camoflauge…
+
Javelin
=
splat

Good match-up. I’ll have to think.

Snake has the element of suprise on his side due to his Octo-Camo

Sort of also depends on Snakes guns. The first guns he gets in MGS4 include an operator silenced pistol, a tranquilizer gun and and customisable assault rifle (Can’t remember the name).

Well Snake can easily put either a 45 cal or 5.56mm into Marcus’ head. since no body in the future wears a helmet

“m-4?”

Eh I’m not sure.. I think it’s called a SOP-MOD or something.

TOS the SOP MOD is a kit of toys for Special Forces that modify the m-4.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SOPMOD_2-2005.jpg

this is unclassified because this kit is dated… comes in a handy hard case for deployments…

Ironic that Fenix is going to loose this fight because he is protected from sniper fire by wearing a helmet, yet the reason why he doesn’ wear one is so he can see the snipers (which doesn’t work when the sniper is nearly or totally invisable).

+1 to David.

although if it did drop a ball anywhere near itself the vibrations in the floor/table would probably cause the machine to chew the disk.

just a thought

@Sapper

Ahh my bad. I had read that while back. I was thinking that the SOPMOD was the rifle and kit together, not just the attachments.

Oh, jeez. Well, as much as I hate to say it b/c I am a huge snake fanboy, I just don’t think he would win. Young snake would have won for sure. He is a clone of big boss who was able to take down Colonel Vulkan, and he destroyed the Shagohod. Then there’s Snake himself who can apparently jump off of a missile (mgs: twin snakes), he beat grey fox in both his human and cyborg ninja form, he took on Metal Gear code name Rex, and beat all kinds of other bad asses in MGS:4. However, Snake got old, and Fenix has some pretty amazing credentials himself. While I think young Snake woulda beat the tar out of Fenix, I can’t say that old Snake has much of a chance. And octo-cammo seems like hax in what should otherwise be a fair match-up.

On a side note, I want to register for this site so i can make a profile and such but I can’t find the area to register… so if anyone could help me figure that out i’d be eternally grateful

Thanks Megaraptor, I’ll get on that right away.

Here is a link to it
http://en.gravatar.com/site/login

@megaraptor
Ok, I set up my account with both of those, not really sure how the gravatar thing works, I guess its auto whenever I use that email address, I guess I’m also about to find out in a few minutes .
@sapper
As I said before, IMO, octocammo is hax. But assuming that snake is using that, just remember that neither Fenix nor Snake are your run of the mill sissy hero that just happens to have the fate of the world in their hands. These aren’t your typical anime heroes who ” don’t wanna hurt anyone QQ”. These are both warriors. They live for the fight, breathe the fight. Genetically they are probably both built for the fight. I can assume that Fenix is, and it’s a fact that Snake is. So, with that said, I don’t think octo cammo is going to fool someone with the “warrior instinct”. Fenix would know something was wrong from the feeling of someone watching him. From both games i’ve played, it seems to me that these characters almost have a bit of the force in them, normally diving down, or taking cover right before they are about to get hit, even when that hit might be coming from an unknown source.
On top of that I’m fairly sure that Fenix would not attempt to dodge the missile so much as going full auto and attempting to take it out before it hits him. And if snake is running around with an rpg launcher I dont know how he can be carrying any other weapons besides. shoulder mounted rocket launchers are pretty heavy. And assuming that Snake is using an assault rifle or pistol, Fenix has some pretty heavy duty battle armor. Snake on the other hand normally doesn’t wear any kind of body armor, just a sneaking suit, and if he gets shot its going to severely hamper his movement.

Last, but certainly not least, Snake is an old man now. He doesn’t have the same agility, strength, and stamina that he used to have in the older games. As much as it pains me to say it, Old Snake is simply not a match for Fenix in terms of warrior attributes.

“He doesn’t have the same agility, strength, and stamina that he used to have in the older games.”

Actually, the Octo Camo functions as a muscle suit, allowing Snake to move at the same level he was at in his younger form.

@sapper
Hm, dont remember that missile. im assuming it was in the 4th one b/c thats the only 1 that i’ve played less than 5 times

@Asger
i was unaware of that. thx for filling me in. well in that case maybe snake does stand a chance, and more.

The one of the rules for these fights is the characters have no knowledge of the other before the fight so chances are Snake won’t default to his octo-cammo-thingy. Also remember, these fellows use weapons that are standard for them. Are javelin missiles standard fair for Snake? Marcus has a Lancer which in his respective universe is a decent med to short range (though it’s not that bad at longe range due to it’s low recoil) which for this fight is pretty good.

Also Marcus is very used to going up against the Locust which are stronger than humans and have very thick skin on top of the armor they wear. So if Snake gets too close, it’d be messy.

As for the COG armor he wears, the thing is made out of an unknown alloy so gauging how effective Snake’s weaponry would do against it. It is known in it’s respective universe to deflect bullets but it can’t hold up against concentrated or sustained gunfire, though again we don’t know how effective Snake’s weaponry would be against it. The observant will notice the limbs are significantly less armored to make sure the armor doesn’t impair movement.

As for battle tactics, Marcus is the kind to sit back and observe first before moving in to fight, but again so does Snake so this could turn into a “Who has the more patience” match. Also note Marcus does have a tendency to want to ride bigger and more badass things. First he stole a Locust Reaver and then later graduated up to a freaking Brumak aka Rancor-saurus Rex with guns and missiles on it. If he could have he probably would’ve ridden the massive Riftworm Freeman style. So if he ever was teleported to the MGS universe, I can very easily see him trying to ride a Gekko while it flails at him with that arm.

Anyway, I really don’t know who’d win. I know nothing of Snake’s weapons really and what he is able to bring to this match that is STANDARD for him. I know what Marcus can do, but really not knowing what Snake can bring to the match and how it’d fair against Marcus’s armor makes for too many unknown variables too make any sort of prediction. A lot of people are saying “Snake could just shoot Fenix in the head!” Which is stupid since anyone experienced with a firearm will fire at center mass, which on Fenix is armored pretty well. Also I love how the same people claiming Snake could just shoot Fenix in the head forget that Marcus could do the same. They’re both skilled fighters. Both have decent aim.

I’m gonna wait for more info on Snake’s weapons before I decide.

“Who has the more patience”

Well Snake wins that hands down. He is extremely patience and can easily hide in anywhere and with his Octo-camo which is standard issue in MGS4

Octocano in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gB4777rbcg

And Snake does have a face cover for the octocamo to make his nearly impossible to see.

“As for the COG armor he wears, the thing is made out of an unknown alloy so gauging how effective Snake’s weaponry would do against it”

But yet zero head protection. If he gets a 5.56mm or a 45 cal bullet in the head that armor will not mean much. Now the reason I say this is because Snake would let Marcus get close enough for a clear head shot and if Marcus cannot see Snake due to Snake’s Octocamo than Marcus will not see Snake’s assault.

Snake would see that Marcus would have on heavy armor and since he is an experienced soldier and who is a clone of the greatest warrior in MGS history known only as Big Boss. He would aim for the head when Marcus wonders into a trap that Snake has set up.

“Also I love how the same people claiming Snake could just shoot Fenix in the head forget that Marcus could do the same”

You can’t shoot what you can’t see that is just common sense. If Fenix cannot see Snake he would wonder into one of Snakes traps possible Claymore mine and if somehow Fenix survived (which I seriously doubt he can survive a blast from a claymore) Snake would put a 45 cal bullet into his head and Fenix would die

@megaraptor

“But yet zero head protection. If he gets a 5.56mm or a 45 cal bullet in the head that armor will not mean much. Now the reason I say this is because Snake would let Marcus get close enough for a clear head shot and if Marcus cannot see Snake due to Snake’s Octocamo than Marcus will not see Snake’s assault.”

You forget marcus s Bandana of Invulnerability its made out of Fanboys not it would take a 50 megaton bomb to scratch it

but srsly Snake has this so far

Ok, I’m sorry but you’re not really going to convince me Marcus cannot see Snake at all with his octocamo on. It is not like the active camo from Halo or Predator, where the wearer can move pretty freely about. If Snake starts moving about, his camo is only going help him hide so much. I mean it’s a practical piece of tech for when you’re sneaking around, but in a match like this it’s use will be limited so don’t wave it around like it’s an infallible piece of tech that will allow Snake to airhump Fenix’s head when he’s not looking.

Also, hello, no forewarning in matches. How’s Snake going to set up a trap? Have Marcus calmly wait in the wings while he sets up a claymore (again is that Snake’s standard load out).

Come on, guys. It seems I’m alone in giving credit to both sides here and it’s not a good feeling. It seems that Megaraptor assumes Marcus is a complete retard with no training whatsoever. The octocamo is not infallible as I said before. Good god, you guys are waving it around like Halo fantards with the Splazer. It’s simply camoflage that can adapt to the enviroment around it, but it doesn’t do so seamlessly or even automatically. He still casts a shadow and that tiny little bit could be just enough to tip off an alert enemy.

“How’s Snake going to set up a trap?”

Simple my dear friend he plaes it on the ground it’s not that hard.

“It’s simply camoflage that can adapt to the enviroment around it, but it doesn’t do so seamlessly or even automatically”

Actually it does do it automatically.

Look at the 8:00 to the end of the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5It5FWtdd_E

Whatever surface he goes against it would automatically change to that surface. Also might I add the suit hides his body heat and acts as a muscle suit. Also given the fact that Snake is far more patience than Fenix. Snake can go hours without moving a muscle.

“Ok, I’m sorry but you’re not really going to convince me Marcus cannot see Snake at all with his octocamo on. It is not like the active camo from Halo or Predator”

What makes Marcus so special. That Octocamo was good enough to fool a billion dollar AI in the Gekko that couldn’t see him because of his Octocamo and hordes of elite PMC Mercs who are jacked up with Nano Machines which make them Faster, Smarter, Stronger, and even removes fear (All due to Nano Machines).

“but in a match like this it’s use will be limited so don’t wave it around like it’s an infallible piece of tech that will allow Snake to airhump Fenix’s head when he’s not looking.”

So you don’t like the fact that Snake would use his OctoCamo to hide from Marcus. Might I add Marcus doesn’t know that his foe has this type of camo. He walks pass Snake who is well hided due to his Octocamo and the fact he isn’t moving a muscle. Once He moves passed Snake, Snake would rise up and put a 45 cal in the back of his head. Game Over

Fenix wouldn’t be prepared for an enemy that hides in plain sight. Locost don’t use camo, from what I’ve seen of the humans they don’t use camo either. Not even a basic battle dress uniform or even something like digicam. Fenix isn’t ready for something as advanced as the Octo-Camo. He is conditioned to shoot at targets that are quite clearly displaying their colors and make no attempt to blend in with the environment.

I’m not saying that Fenix isn’t a good soldier. I’m saying that he is better prepared to look for and target enemies that are distinctive and that stand out. Snake blends in, disappears, and is silent. Fenix isn’t ready for such sublty.

And the mentality is to use camouflage, which is something that people on Sera are not accostomed to doing, and something that Snake excels at.

@zerviziel

the camo is designed to blur the image of whoever is wearing it. so unless fenix is staring at snake directly for long enough to render an image of snake then he will be able to see him…..

“It is not like the active camo from Halo or Predator, where the wearer can move pretty freely about.”

he has that aswell if you want to bring it up…..also infinite ammo

also calling the opposing team “fantards” really does nothin except make you look like one yourself

“Marcus Fenix would rip Snake in half and eat him for breakfast. The guy as destroyed huge enemy’s the like of which snake would poop his pants. Snake is a old man who is half way into a nurse home at this point.”

More like Snake would rip Marcus Fenix in half and eat him for dinner because everyone knows that Cannibalism is best in the evening. plus Fenix is a big boy which means a big dinner.

@z
when you talk shit, expect shit to be talked back… especially if you dont know what your talking about…

and this is hardly keeping it civil:
“Good god, you guys are waving it around like Halo fantards ”
“Ok now, you’re just being fanboys”
“like Halo fantards”

so, taking a little scrap of your book…

Do you have to call the opposition to your flawed side fanboys to get your point across?

Long story short, snake has to do something retarded for marcus to win.

Honestly, snake has done more with less. He fought against the patriots who controlled the world with little to no support and won, because he’s just that good, but more to the point, snake has almost always fought alone while Fenix fights as part of a unit. Without someone to watch his flanks, Fenix is easy pickings for a stealth expert like Snake.

If it comes to a battle of pure badassery, Snake would win this several times over.

@sapper
i c yo point about the camo but the Zervziels point is that the octo camo aint gonna sprout grass leaves and such outta thin air like guille suits, which he shouldve just said. and he’s tryin to point out that his octo camo is no more effective than a guy pressed up against the wall while wearing the same color. and then it becomes a question of depth perception. he’s trying to say that the octo-camo isnt changing snakes size or shape which are key elements. and fenix has survival instinct which gives him a sense of incoming danger and when a situation is unsafe which may put him on his gaurd.

in both characters defense i have to say that they are excellent soldiers and have proven themselves in many situations. both have their advantages and dis advantages.

just dont throw around the octo-camo like it the end all solution. it has become a crutch instead of a piece of equipment.

That’s not to say he is incapable of self-defense Darkblade. Snake has been shown frequently in-game to be quite adept at both weapon usage and hand-to-hand combat. Stealth is simply his preferred work method.

@Asger
im not saying that he’s defenseless and cant fight just stating that his method is not plowing through hordes of enemies and extended firefights.

@sapper007
my statement was mostly about the octo-camo being only in one game and overall not that great. because the game is mostly urban with alot of plain surfaces and repeating textures, where the camo is at its best. yet it still manages to fail a large portion of the time due to an enemy starring at the person shaped growth on the wall or ground.

im just sayin that its completely wrong to assume that octo camo works effectively everywhere and all the time. and if it fails it leaves him with basic colors. which may still work because stealth is snakes thing.

just givin credit to both combatants

@zerziel

yep he has the light refrating one as well

its seen in every game as far as i can remember and he uses it in 1 2 and 4

its the area is a flat surface then octocamo wouldnt work too well however if he was on the same flat ground but say….under a car then due to shadows and other cover it becomes nearly impossible to see him..

and with the light refracting…..its always fun in the game to just run up to a super soldier punch them in the face then watch them spaz

he had the light refracting camo in 4 it shorted at the beginning of 2 did they repair it or is i an unlockable?

“It shorted? What caused it to do that?”

The consensus is that it was suffering from overuse and the impact of Snake lanfing on the tanker was the last straw for it.

ahhhhhh my computer sucks i cant comment on the battle request page…..
i wanna request: Spawn vs *insert character here* it can be anybody.

hint, hint, admin.

well in mgs1 his enemies were genetically altered/engineered supersoldiers

i dunno in number 1 they were good enough to spot footprints in the snow during a snowstorm

“And remember, the idiotic AI of the soldiers is NOT canonically reflective of their actual intelligence since that aspect of the MGS is ENTIRELY a game mechanic and is thus ignorable. Snake didn’t sneak past a bunch of blind 3-years with ADHD, which is what the game would imply. Well in MGS2, they got better.”

Case in point, the tanker.

Russian soldiers land by chopper and proceed to silently cut down every marine on deck like the pros they were.

But……..in gameplay their IQ’s drop by about 40 or 50 points, and can only see about ten feet ahead of them.

Yeah……..

well not any enviroment and there are circumstances and variable that would allow fenix to win…..but alot of those would require snake to screw up, or something otherwise unlikely.
So…..
Snake FTW

4thing the nomination for Snake.

I really don’t see how the environment plays into this. the only place Snake’s tactics couldn’t work would be on a flat rooftop or something.

marcus would just walk up break snakes arms, pull one of his exploding cigarettes out of his butt shove it in his mouth light it then chainsaw gun him in half, then marcus runs and snake goes boom

so its settled… Snake for the win… I nominate snake for the FP award…

I third the nomination for Snake.