“Wrex’s ceramic armor would melt around the same temp it would take to melt steel, and high velocity impacts would smash it (the armor is even designed to break in order for energy to be dispersed over the armor instead of traveling into the wearer).”

Modern ceramic armor melts around 2730 C. Steel melts at 1500 C. Ceramics are always used in layers because they’re meant to shatter to absorb the energy. Kinetic shielding prevents solid impacts to begin with.

“HK on the other hand is made out of a rather durable metal (likely durasteel due to the fact that nearly everything is made out of durasteel, but don’t quote me on that). By being a solid chassis instead of plates he would be more resistant to impacts (such as bullets) and we know that it has an absurdly high boiling point as he is able to survive blaster bolts without having large portions of his body melt on impact.”

His inner circuits still have mass, therefore, the can be affected by biotics.

“Also we know that energy weapons cut through Kinetic Barriers with ease, although they are not totally ineffective (just not optimized against them). Meanwhile the shields that KH uses blocks large amounts of energy from most any type (thermal, kinetic, electrical, ect).”

By energy weapons, they mean lasers which have no mass. plasma and particle weapons have projectiles with mass. ergo, kinetic shields would deflect, even partially, the energy from a blaster.

“Finally while a bullet at hypersonic speed (I think ME bullets are hypersonic at least) is rather damaging, the blasters in Star Wars are capable of vaporizing man sized targets. The amount of energy it would take to do that is extremely high; much more energy that to send a bullet through a person’s skull.”

Er, no. infantry grade blasters have never vaporized anyone, only inflict deadly burns. Also, ME electro-kinetic weapons have rounds designed to expand or shatter on impact rather than pass through without relying on hydrostatic shock alone.

“So since Wrex is a biotic what’s stopping him from using Warp to rip HK apart at a molecular?”

lack of proof that he is capable of such a feat.

“‘Finally while a bullet at hypersonic speed (I think ME bullets are hypersonic at least) is rather damaging, the blasters in Star Wars are capable of vaporizing man sized targets. The amount of energy it would take to do that is extremely high; much more energy that to send a bullet through a person’s skull.’
Er, no. infantry grade blasters have never vaporized anyone, only inflict deadly burns”

And to add to that. in starwars you never see anyone with shields except for Droid Dekas, which their shields deflect lasers. So what’s stopping kinetic barriers from doing that same feat?

@OriginalA
Proof? Fine, I’ve used biotics to kill robots before.
Has HK-47 survived gravitonic attacks? Is there any reason that a robot would be given anti-gravitonic defense systems? Are there gravitonic defense systems in SW?
Unless you can answer yes to all three of these things, and do so convincingly, then HK-47 is as vulnerable to Biotics as any other geth or mechanoid. Quod Erat Demonstrandum, as it were.
Your turn.

Warp doesn’t kill things in a single shot unless the target in question is already injured or increadibly weak to begin with. It mostly weakens their armor, which means that the attack centers primarily on the exterior. Wrex won’t be able to specifically target the central CPU of HK and 1-hit kill him. That’s not how the attack works.

The reason why most SW people are not seen with shields is because by the time of the Clone and Galactic Civil Wars blaster tech is too powerful for shields to be extremely helpful (although Kyle Katarn would probably advocate them as he uses them a lot and they have kept him alive). HK is from the old republic when personal shield generators were in wide use.

“which their shields deflect lasers. So what’s stopping kinetic barriers from doing that same feat?”
Three things:
1) Destroyer Droids’ shields deflected blaster bolts, not lasers.
2) Mass Effect Lore STATS that KBs ignore lasers (like actual lasers; beams of light) This is why the GARDIAN defense laser array on starships is so effective even though it is stricktly a close range weapon.
3) A KB could protect Wrex against a blaster bolt. The thing is though is that kinetic barriers suck against particle beam weapons as seen from collector particle beam weapons, which chew through kinetic barriers like a hot knife through wet paper. His shields are optomised to stop bullets, not energy beams. HK’s shields are optomised to stop any harmful projectile, including bullets, lasers, and blasters.

@OriginalA
“HK’s shields are optomised to stop any harmful projectile, including bullets, lasers, and blasters.”
Incorrect. If you pay attention to the battle system, you realize that personal shields are effective against only energy weapons. Physical attacks like swords tend to pass right through. They actually lampshade this by saying how melee weapons are coming back in style.

“Warp doesn’t kill things in a single shot unless the target in question is already injured or increadibly weak to begin with. It mostly weakens their armor, which means that the attack centers primarily on the exterior. Wrex won’t be able to specifically target the central CPU of HK and 1-hit kill him. That’s not how the attack works.”

So it’ll take a few hits from biotics to tear him limb from limb. The first hit usually knocks down an opponent, seeing as standing is awfully hard when down is no longer down, leaving them open to follow up attacks.That, and lift and push tactics still work.

Hmm… I felt the urge to visit the site for some reason. It’s good to see that OriginalA is still here. But I’m still somewhat inclined to say Wrex has more of an advantage if what I’ve heard of biotics and the stasis beam is true from the J-Man DarkBlahBlahBlah, and Beli, but that doesn’t mean HK is the definate loser methinks. Not by a long shot.

“Er, no. infantry grade blasters have never vaporized anyone, only inflict deadly burns.”

That’s not quite true I’m afraid… not only can just about any regular blaster be overcharged (which drains the blaster’s power pack more rapidly, but puts the already devastating bolt on par with the standard disruptor blast), but most infantry grade blasters (with the exception of the plasma-based weapons utilized by the Republic during the Clone Wars, which could only vaporize roughly one meter of an object made of a material that is comparable to iron once overcharged) usually were shown to have more of an explosive, violent effect, such as blowing holes through torsos, dislodging appendeges, etc, at standard setting. In fact, the standard particle blaster bolt doesn’t burn so much as to vibrate the target, presumably at the rate the bolt travels… the minimum of which being around lightspeed. This is not surprising, considering the standard E-11 shot can pocket grapefruit-sized holes in reinforced durasteel walls in Cloud City at standard setting, and an overcharged blast can vaporize around a two meter deep hole in one of the Death Star’s prison walls…

“Durasteel, the most commonly used metallic alloy used in the construction of vessels and vehicles, possesses a unique atomic structure that allows the material to remain incredibly light even in human hands, but has a structural integrity greater than most alloys available. A single cubic inch of dense and processed Durasteel has only 0.01 the equivalent mass of modern day steel (Or even Titanium) of equal density, yet it is possesses a hundred times the tensile strength.”

- Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels

… now that’s impressive. However, I must inform you that this was a section from the outdated EGtVaV… the durasteel page on Wookiepedia claims the durasteel is actually 300,000 times stronger than modern steel, but I cannot find the source to support such a claim…

Now, considering HK has sustained more than several direct blaster bolts in the past without so much as an energy shield, I’m wanting to say his armor is made from either a heavily processed durasteel/plast (sort of like both of the Fett’s standard sets of armor) shell or some sort of other heavy compounds, like phrik or Mandalorian iron. I doubt the latter… Some of the heavier energy shields could sustain a fair amount of damage… namely fifty direct blaster bolts at full power (not overcharged) as well as the elements and a samll amount of other things… but little else. They shouldn’t pose too much of a problem for Wrex… unless HK somehow becomes Mandalorian anyway, their sheilds block just about every form of attack. Sadly, I find it unlikely he will…

“collector particle beams fire constant beams of energy. blaster bolts fire shots. of course the beam cut through once contact is made simply track the target. blaster bolts fire individual shot which makes it much easier for the KB the deflect.”

Ugh… do you know how many settings the standard blaster has? One moment you see Han Solo completely disentigrating a three meter tall heavily armored war droid with a single overcharged shot, the next you see a stormtrooper set his blaster to stun in order to capture a certain princess, and the list goes on… I’ll let my good friend L-W finish the rest:

“8B) Blasters of all kinds have demonstrated remarkable energy outputs and the varying effects upon organisms, droids and other solid surfaces.

I) Blasting through two to one inch thick Droid armour.
II) Gutting an armoured apartment sized Sandcrawler.
III) Destroying torso sized holes in Duracrete.
IV) Pocketing holes in durasteel walls.
V) Han Solo at “Star’s End” has the burning, which is a blaster set on low power used to burn the flesh off of a body until only bone remained (usually starting with the legs and then to other limbs) as a form of torture.
VI) The novel also had a number of instances where blaster fire was set to “needle beam” for very precise (small holes), such as when Rekkon was killed.
VII) The “Tales from Jabba’s Palace” had a blaster whose mode was changed from “explosive bursts” to a “cutting beam” and then proceeded to cut through a Krayt Dragon’s armoured hide to reach the stomach and retrieved jewels (Which included vaporizing the flesh as well as cutting).
VIII)“Shatterpoint” and The ROTS novel both mention steam explosions from “Deep tissue hits” burning/boiling the flesh and causing explosive (mechanical) wounds such as the removal of limbs.
IX) Medstar has blasters blowing legs off, but the wound is left cauterized.
X) “Betrayal” has a blaster rifle blowing away part of the head and some of the upper chest of a man (And putting a torso sized hole in the wall behind him), as well as another shot putting a “dinner plate sized” hole through a woman’s torso.
XI) “Tyrant’s Test” had a blaster bolt making a blackened crater in the “upper third” of a human body.
XII) “Krytos Trap” has blaster fire that would have vaporized Corran Horn’s “heart and lungs” and reduced them to ashes if he’d not ducked – E-11 carbines were used there.
XIII) In the TESB novelization a Wampa is vaporized by the Probe droids blaster weapon set to maximum power, and the WEG always mentioned maximum settings “vaporizing” any material upon contact.
XIV) In “Tales of the New Republic”, the Wolfman vaporizes the corpse of a two meter tall Alien he met in the cantina as to prevent her capture.”

As you can see, there is quite a variety.

“well lets just see the attack is described as shredding objects at the molecular lvl.

kno someone is gonna bring up the fact that it doesnt to it to enemies on the game so im gonna knock that arguement out right now.

1. its mass effects universe they been fighting wars against biotic enemies for centuries.
2. because biotics are used as weapons their armor has an ability called Hardening thru which currently unknown methods are used to resist the influence of mass effect fields. which is probably why its nigh impossible to shred an enemy.”

Sounds sort of like conjecture, no offense. It’s somewhat plausible, but I feel doubtful all the same. Is there an official source that confirms this theory?

“naw dont buckle to that crap, if you remember ME armor and shield are made to resist biotics.”

This is embarissing… but I honestly can’t find this source either…

Keep in mind, most assassin droids can analyse and action a situation within micro-seconds. And with his modified disruptor (standard shots typicly bypass all shielding and completely vaporize the target, unless game mechanics prevent it from happening anyway…), this could be over all the same for Wrex as it could be for HK with the stasis field and biotic combo. I’m not saying who will and won’t win, I just sense a lot of underestimation on our droid friend…

However, I feel compelled to say that IG-88 would have been a far tougher opponent for Wrex than even HK…

i use the games as greatest canon source.

“just when blaster bolts destructive abilities mean nothing when they are being swatted away by KBs .”

Excuse my ignorance, but KBs?

“if a disruptor rifle has any sort of plasma in its shot the KBs stop it. and a lack of defense against biotics.”

Really, the most plasma weaponry we see in the SW saga is clone weaponry. Disruptors and most other blasters are actually particle beam accelerators, most of which travel arond the speed of light.

“Energy weapons fire invisible energy beams at light speed. The visible “bolt” is a glowing pulse that travels along the beam at less than light speed. Therefore targets can actually explode before the beam arrives.”

The ICS

Disruptors are just blasters on steroids… which is actually a good definition. They are fed far more ammunition than your typical blaster, and the particles are accelerated at a faster rate. The result is a deadly beam that travels faster than ordinary bolts and shakes the target even faster, resulting in molecular destablization. Targets were lucky if a patch of ash remained of their former selves…

“Wrex’s weapons were never his deciding factor in this HK’s armor isnt designed to handle being shredded at the molecular lvl, sure it can handle blaster bolts and heavy weaponry but thats all irrelevant.”

Well, to be fair, it hasn’t quite been deceided yet… anyway, HK’s armor has sustained thermal detenator fusions before. As we know, the particle field that expands from the fusion usually vaporizes everything on contact. That’s impressive for SW standards.

“i use the games as greatest canon source.”

For Mass Effect I hope, because SW games are flimsy when it comes to canon… mainly because of the game mechanics.

That’s another thing to consider. I don’t own Mass Effect, nor its sequal. You’ll have to guide me on what is and isn’t considered game mechanics with them. That would be appreciated very much, haha. We don’t want hyperbole running amok after all…

“Apparantly Battlefront isnt considered a canon source.”

Not very much of it, no. Just the campain story lines. But it’s still an awsome game!

You know how you sometimes read a match and you see one person trying to get his point across over multiple posts and then some other guy just comes right out of the blue and describes exactly what the first guy was saying but in a more clear and consise way that makes more sense? Yeah, I feel like that just happend to me.

KBs are Kinetic Barriers. They are the sheilds that Mass Effect uses. They do not stop toxins, temperature, radiation, or lasers (as in Light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation).

“because biotics are used as weapons their armor has an ability called Hardening thru which currently unknown methods are used to resist the influence of mass effect fields. which is probably why its nigh impossible to shred an enemy.”

Hardening implies having a hardness and increasing it. Anything with a high density should be able to resist Warp.

“KBs are Kinetic Barriers. They are the sheilds that Mass Effect uses. They do not stop toxins, temperature, radiation, or lasers (as in Light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation).”

Oh… thanks for the information Original! Though I feel like a dummy now…

I’m going to have to look into what weapons HK has in those regards… I don’t think lasers worked their way into very many hand-held weapons in SW though…

@Who?

“…blasters should actually be lethal in ME, should they not?”

depends on firing rate, the particle beam is effectice because its a constant beam focused on one point on the KB, a constant drain, but a blaster bolt is a shot, fire 1 it hits the KB, next….so on so forth. the trick with a KB is that its weak against rapid fire, or sustained attacks like beams. hence a SMGs effectiveness against the KB were a pistol fails. and if the weapons are particle beam accelerators than the KBs should hold seeing as the collectors have heavier particle weapons that your shield holds up against..

and i dont use much SW games for canon i was talkin bout ME.

and you asked about seperating game mechanics of mass effect from things that we can actually use. so here you go.

1. the KBs should stop any projectile execpt a laser of pure light energy, toxins, or meele attacks. if it ever does otherwise its wrong.

2. biotics in gameplay are nerfed alot! in cutscences biotics have shown abilities ranging from levitation to omni directional energy blasts, but they still stay true to their basic descriptions, and can impact with forces between 200 and 1000 newtons.

3. some biotics do in fact go thru solid objects.

4. KBs recharge faster than they do in gameplay, as seen in the cutscene when you are fired upon point blank and the KB is recharged immediately after the shot impacts.

5. Krogans shouldnt die as easily as they do in gameplay.

6. anything hit by reave should actually die instantly. because its and attack against nervous systems and electrical circuitry. and anything hit by warp should be shredded but the armor is designed to resist biotics to a degree and KBs can stop certain biotics.

7. those are the only real things to point out, bioware did an amazing job of keeping the lore, tech and powers consistant throughout both titles.

@OriginalA

“Hardening implies having a hardness and increasing it. Anything with a high density should be able to resist Warp.”

normally yes, but in mass effect its the armors ability to use mass effect fields to counter act the effects of biotics. the actually hardsuit is unaffected.

*****Biotics would be useless on HK… Why? People have claimed this and given no good reason. Give a reason, maybe I’ll be more inclined to agree.******

ok then, how would they work on hk??????

so, We done here?

ME should use game mechanics as it’s greatest source of canon seeing as it’s a game series. Have you read a ME novel to show Wrex’s KBs have defence against lasers? Particle beam is deadly in ME as said a lil’ eralier in this thread.

I see that people are, quite reasonably, pointing out that “KOTOR shields don’t block swords, and that’s why swords came back into fashion in the age of stellar warfare”: That mechanic is ripped off wholesale from Frank Herbert’s Dune. In Dune, shields block fast moving particles like bullets (and certainly slugs from mass accelerator weapons) but permit slow moving items like carefully timed sword blows and air molecules to pass through. That’s why people wearing shields don’t quickly use up the air inside and suffocate. Ergo HK’s shields wouldn’t stop Wrex from body slamming him if he got close enough, but they will most certainly resist his shotgun fire.

“Kinetic barriers don’t stop energy weapons”

Charged particles have mass, therefore they are subject to gravity and the effects of a kinetic shield.

“Also, Krogans are tough but they need to breath”
Wrex’s armor is a self contained space suit. The enclosed helmet is on hand at all times.

“everything in SW is probably going to be more powerful than its ME equivalent.”
Except for the Mass relays, which is the fastest way to get around the galaxy.

“Wrex is a fantastic character, but AFAIK we have no indication that he’s anywhere near the ME universe’s deadliest bounty hunter.”

He is however the deadliest Krogan, a race consisting almost entirely of Bounty Hunters and mercenaries because they’re so well suited to it. As demonstrated by his beating the Thresher Maw single handed, surviving an ambush by his fathers fully armed clan with archaic armour and Reuniting the Tribes of the Krogan through violent expansion.

have you noticed that when someone say Wrex for the FP 2 new people show up to argue for HK.