Gandalf would WTFPWN Dante so badly…

Well considering that Gotrek’s axe negates magic (not to mention possibly being the second of the Axes forged by Grimnir) and the fact that Gotrek was able to take on, to date and my knowledge, a high lever bloodthirsty, a supped up vampire, a Chaos general second only to Archeon, a few giants (child play to him now), a chaos plague… bug…god… thing, a dragon, a fire and cannon based magical being of immense power, a couple of the most powerful chaos wizards ever (the Albino Twins), etc.

Hell, when Teclis, one of the most powerful spell casters ever in Warhammer, took one look at Gotrek and his axe, and nearly shit himself.

So Link is done for, all he’s really good with is magic and that won’t help him much here.

Gandalf is shown to control… well…. just about anything he wants too, so It should be easy for him to basically wipe the floor with Dante’s ass.

Prediction : The Slayer is once again disappointed to not find someone that is able to kill him.

Gandalf could negate Link’s magic quicker than he could blink. Most of it, anyway. Gandalf is a VERY powerful wizard.

@ Original A

The axe doesn’t have an area affect,it only affects Gotrek… which makes the whole stopping time thing a non issue… not to mention that Gandalf probably has so many wards and sheer magic that he wouldn’t be affected or even he would just throw the spell back at Dante.

well, idk about link, but i would think that gotrek would beat the sh*t out of him easily.

gandalf and dante, tough one

gandalf is a pretty powerful wizard, but dante is half demon and brings technology from a more advanced age to the fight (a gun)

as most of you believe that magic >>> technology, i guess that you will say gandalf.

i, of course, say that magic can screw itself, guns are better than wands.

pistol >>> magic

revolver >>> pistol

Tolkein never went into magic, but considering he helped create the world……

Dante could just Royal Block lightning and stabs and take no damage from those attacks. He’s done it before.

“All well and good, but Gandalf has a magical shield to black shit to0…. but considering that Gandalf can call upon the power of pure lightening…. well, barbecue anyone?”

“I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor!”. Seeing as Gandalf is a maiar, put in human form, I see magic will be no real problem for the Grey (or should I say White) Wizard. Though I wish Tolkien would have elaborated on that….does anyone give feats of Gandalf’s in the realm of magic?

- the pondering fool

tolkien based his works off ww2, so all we need to look for to find gandalfs power
is find the character that gandalf was based off.

jack churchill? nah, tolkien probably never heard of jack
the RAF? ??
sure as hell not omar bradly

Dante can pin down Gandalf with an endless barrage of blades and bullets (Ebony and Ivory never need to reload) . Add this to Dante’s speed and power and Gandalf will be hard pressed to hold his own.

Gotrek is tough and powerful but not fast enough to pin down Link long enough to kill him. Link has plenty of ranged weaponry and a tough shield. Gotrek might not die from the arrows, bombs, and arrow bombs but it will tire him.

“tolkien based his works off ww2, so all we need to look for to find gandalfs power
is find the character that gandalf was based off.”

What? Mate, I was asking if someone would show examples of Gandalf’s magic, not the inspiration of the character. And I doubt Tolkien based his masterpiece on WWII, though it would have some immense influence on his life.

- the pondering fool

I hate debating with Lord of the Rings characters because all we have to go on is that they are powerful. The only known limit to Gandalf is that he “cannot burn snow.” The Balrog got killed by tossing it into a mountain. Every time 2 really powerful guys go up against each other they both end up dead. An elf and a human took out Sauron himself, though they died in the process. It gets confusing.

Lord of the Rings magic is subtle, not explosive, and just has nothing to go on.

We have established that current incarnation Link is WW/PH? That’s the one with a time stop, flaming sword/sword beams/barrier shield, elemental arrows, some magic armor, and other assorted items. He’s also the best swordsman of the Links with his special parrying ability.

Dante’s Speed, strength, abilities, and precision, he can dodge avoid, and counter nearly anything that comes at him. His endurance also helps.

Link’s advantages are in his items. He has many ways of coming at this (since it is WW/PH). He could use his bow, time stop, parries (counter all melee attacks on WW), temporary invulnerability and many others. I have one question. I have been wondering this from the start. Since Boba can call in the Slave I, would Link be able to use the Tingle Tuner? Sure he’s a pain in the ass, but he has advantages.

The one thing I want to know more about (cuz i dont want to underestimate anything) is Gotrek’s axe.

Oh I overestimated it then… my bad

I don’t think the Tingle Tuner would be acceptable. Slave 1 is an inanimate ship with some AI programs to instruct it. Tingle is a very seperate character.

I see some big problems that are going to come up with this axe against Dante’s Royal Block. On the one hand appearntly the axe cuts through anything. On the other hand Dante’s Royal Block can stop Yamato, a sword that is said to be able to cut through anything, and RB has also been able to stop every attack that it has been used against. Immovable Object and Unstoppable Force pitted against each other I think.

I could see the axe potentially hurting most of the Devil Arms (weapons crafted from the souls of demons) of Dante’s arsenal due to point 6 in Kenny’s post, but I think Rebellion could stand up to that due to the fact that it is a physical manifestation of Dante’s own personal power.

What about Gotrek’s character? Is he evil? Psycopathic? Defender of Truth, Justice, and the American Way? Could Evil’s Bane hurt him? Mind you Evil’s Bane isn’t magical, but rather a property of the Master Sword much like the axe’s anti-magicness (at least from my understanding of it, which is limited to just from this topic)

This is one of the more random match-ups I’ve ever seen, but would be a hell of a lot of fun to watch

At this point in the Gotrek and Felix Saga, Gotrek is damn close to becoming the Avatar of Grimnir, or at the very leasy a demi-god. Even before this he was an incredibly skilled, incredibly tough fighter with no small amount of magical resistance. Dwarves are born with an innate resistance to magical means, which is why there are no Dwarves sorcerers, mages or otherwise. Added to the magic resistance of his axe, and theres pretty much nothing mystical anyone can do to him.

Him Verse Link, Gandalf Verse Dante., and team one win.

The other way round however, and it becomes quite different, at least as far as I can see. Link has a fair few items at his call that’ll aid him hugely against the White wizard, and Royal Block would be hellishly useful against gotrek.

But what about the fierce deity mask?

Can that compete with Gotrek?

*But what about the fierce deity mask?

Can that compete with Gotrek?*

sure fierce deity link is Ub3R Pwz0r and stuff like that but i think where basing link on TP link not MM link.and FD-link is pretty small when it comes down to abilities.all he has is that huge ass sword that fires OP magic.

*1 – Cuts through anything…. ANYTHING, even a fucking magical barrier would be destroyed in one hit*

theres always a problem with this kind of statement.sure its true what you said.but links magical barriers also block anything…ANYTHING i say.

as alreay said by orignalA…

Immovable Object >< Unstoppable Force WTFBOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM

I’m with I dunno on all of his/her points.
on to the fight: if Gandalf can take on a balrog, he can take a child with a sock on his head.
Gortrek could pwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn them with one arm back behind his back.
I think you know who Im going with.

I have a thing for hating link…its the sock on the head thing…
“Only LoZ/AoL and LttP/LA Links surpass WW/PH Link’s magic abilities (in universe of course).” Im not sure what that means.
If he’s that strong how come he doesn’t just walk through his world??? (just wondering, nothing to do with the fight)
oh and this is the hundredth time I’ve read “they will stop time and pwn somebody” get a new argument please,if only to keep things interesting. If they can stop time how come they don’t just stop time and kill whoever the enemy is?(again just wondering).

wow that all came out in a jumbled mess.

“He has faced a Bloodthrister in one on one combat and was able to hold his own…. not even a fucking Space Marine could do that !”

He did!! Mmhhh that gives me a new perspective on Gotrek….had no idea he was that freaking strong….well, shows to tell, don’t judge a book by its cover (i usually assume dwarves are weak, so yeah…)

- the pondering fool

“….. where in the hell did you get that assumption? In almost every fantasy setting I’ve encountered, the Dwarves are always really strong.”

Sorry mate, I meant compared to the other powerful races, I assumed dwarves were weak in the realm of magic. No doubt, even I, a humble fool, know dwarves are insanely powerful in the art of combat and technology. Just never knew they had the power to handle a bloodthirster….now that is a suprise I am glad to find out.

- the pondering fool

To be fair he didn’t actually take on the Bloodthirster by himself although he did do quite a lot of the work.

“the shire = america, which in both wars was fairly untouched by german raids”

The Shire has nothing to do with America it was based on the part of England where Tolkien lived, and the Lord of the Ring’s as a whole is based on different mythologies and cultures thoughout history NOT World War 2. Tolkien fought in WW1 so some of the Battles in his books MAY have been based on his experiences during that.

As to who Gandalf is based on, their is quite a bit of Merlin in there but I always thought the main inspiration for Gandalf was actually Jesus. If you look there is quite a few similarities between them, not as many as Aslan from Narnia but still quite a few. Also Tolkien was a Christian so that makes it even more likely.

And how does Gotrek get past Dante’s Royal Block? Unstoppable Force and Immovable Object remember. Either way it doesn’t stop Dante from Royal Releasing ever attack Gotrek uses against him. It won’t pack the full punch it normally would have if it had a charged Angry Meter from Royal Blocking, but it would counter and evade every attack Gotrek could pull off against Dante since the attacks never actually touch Dante at that point.

@chewie who asked why don’t Link and Dante ever stop time and smash their big bads into dust during the time stop. Link actual did that against Bellum. That was the only way Link could win. He HAD to do that, and that is what he did.

As for Dante and Mundus, well Mundus is so powerful even Dante still cannot kill him. Sparda, the only full blood demon that comes even close to Mundus’s power could not kill him. No one has ever come close to killing Mundus. The demon’s Underworld, that Mundus rules, is ruled by the whoever can force everyone else into submission. Since Mundus rules this realm it is likely that every has already tried to kill him too. To date he still rules the Underworld. I’m not saying he is unkillable, but no body in the DMC universe has thus far gained enough power to kill him.

That said Dante still could stop time and totally wreck Mundus, and if the player chooses that is what Dante actually does. Even then Mundus will still nearly kill Dante due to cutscene attacks. Then Dante will seal Mundus for another 2000 years.

Oh yeah, Dante has sealing magic. I forget about that sometimes. It may be possible that Dante could seal Gandalf away. Mundus, aside from being nigh unkillable, could create entire dimensions as he pleased. Trish is a being he created, as are a number of other high powered demons. He is a reality warper/creator and Dante still had the power to seal him away into the Underworld even after Mundus was in the human’s realm. That was in DMC1 and with Trish’s power aiding him. As of DMC 2, the furthest in the timeline, Dante is much more powerful. Even in DMC 4 Dante more powerful. In the DMC anime, which takes place after DMC 1, Dante killed another high class demon (ruled the underworld before Mundus did, so he isn’t quite as powerful as Mundus) simply by activating his Devil Trigger. The DT Flux alone was enough to kill it when back in DMC 3, when the Flux was introduced as an attack, even a fully charged DT Flux could only kill the lowest ranks of mooks.

“He did get a whole lot of pain in manslayer through. – Considering that Gandalf derives his power from the beings that created middle earth and the fact he was stopped from using his true power by the gods, its fair to assume he can lay down a serious can of whoop ass on anyone who tries to use magic.”

It is quite humorous, as the “gods” of middle earth, are little more than servants (or stewards) of Ilúvatar. When the Balrog killed him (or when Gandalf died after the great struggle), the “gods” could not resurrect him, but Ilúvatar intervined. Shows he has someone pretty powerful at his back and at command. Wonder what it would have been like though, if Gandalf was allowed to go all out against Sauron……would have been a sight to behold.

- the pondering fool

So Gotrek fights off against Dante, and they keep fighting, until Gandalf can whoop Link’s ass, then Gandalf intervenes and destroys Dante.

Gandalf’s true power is far beyond that of any of these…….. He helped create a world… I consider that powerful…

@ OriginalA

Sheer assumption, but a good guess really considering the power hinted at in the Tolkien books.

@ AHEM

Gotrek in immune to magic, so the whole stop time thing won’t work on him

” Gotrek will certainly be stopped. Even if he himself isn’t, every molecule around him will be. And will not move. He won’t even be able to see. ”

- ummmm, why would that happen considering the axe has been shown to influence its surrounds with its powers too?

“The Shire has nothing to do with America it was based on the part of England where Tolkien lived, and the Lord of the Ring’s as a whole is based on different mythologies and cultures thoughout history NOT World War 2. Tolkien fought in WW1 so some of the Battles in his books MAY have been based on his experiences during that. ”

meh, whatever you think, i just draw similarities between pre 60′s america and the shire

man, i miss the days (which i never saw) when countries were comparable to lotr, sigh…

still, yeah, g&g pretty much rape the hell out of d&l

but Dante is still badass

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Valor create the world and the constants that govern it like gravity and time, and the Maiar, that is Gandalf’s race, only assist in creating small parts of it, like trees, mountains, and the start of technology.

So wouldn’t that mean that all that assumed immunity to time stop is complete and totally worthless because his race has never shown that kind of power, much less him specifically.

Even still Dante is described to move at lightning speeds when using Alastor, and from the visual perspective of the player in DMC 3 and 4 he moves considerably faster in those games then he ever did in DMC 1 with Alastor. On top of that he has supersonic reflexes as he can catch bullets and react to lightning bolts. Then he has Quicksilver which doubles his speed.

I don’t think Gandalf’s ability to cause weapons to heat up will be much of a problem for him either. Ifrit tried to incinerate him with hellfire when he picked up the Ifrit gauntlets. He just held on to them and started punching people. Later he sat on the burning tail of a fire demon that ruled part of the underworld. He has also survived below 0K degree attacks. Yes, you read that right, Dante can survive below absolute zero temperatures. I don’t think extreme temperatures is going to be much of a problem with him especially since he could royal block it too. He can punch a lightning demon and then royal block the electrical current that travels back at him so it isn’t unprecedented for him to be able to royal block damage he takes from touching something that hurts him.

I was under the impression you cant get bellow 0k?

“He has also survived below 0K degree attacks. Yes, you read that right, Dante can survive below absolute zero temperatures.”

Wait, DMC actually acknowledges the idea of temperature below 0k, that is like saying that your speed can be less than zero. It defies the very understanding of temperature.

Temperature is ultimate related to the speed of particles. The faster they are, the higher the temperature. Therefore, apparently particles in DMC can have a negative speed, which means that absolute value of some number in DMC is a negative.

Theoretically, to actually achieve 0k, you would need a particle in a box that has no velocity (and assuming the “box” itself is made of nothing but encloses the particle). Technically even two particles in the universe would be some unbelievably small fraction above 0k.

But even considering 0k with decent rounding off error, the fact that all the atoms in Dante never completely stopped moving automatically means that scientifically he never reached 0k, let alone…below it.

Well DMC has lost 1 cool point from me, that was one of the most stupid things I have ever heard in a video game. Even Katamari Damacy doesn’t outright violate laws of physics like THAT.

…
Ok, nevermind but it is close.

Physics rant over.

I’m not claiming I like it any more than you Cap’N. I’m just repeating what DMC 4 said about the ice demons in that game. Even Metroid has enough decency to keep Abosolute Zero intact even if a few weapons can either reach or approach it.

I’ve got an absurd theory!
The -0K attacks are attually moving away from Dante, but since temperature is related to movement, and it is below the lowest possible, the attacks move backwards and thus move into Dante. Or weirder yet, they start at Dante and move back to the ice demon, but it is reversed because of how cold it is.

Yeah, okay, that paragraph was just to say something increadibly stupid. I do that sometimes and I am a sucker for speculating on things I really don’t know all that much about.

@Pondering Fool: So what you are saying is that no being in Tolken’s world are confirmed to control, alter, or create time and physics save Eru, and yet people keep saying Gandalf, who’s race is at least two steps below Eru, should still somehow be able to pull something like this out of his ass even though neither he nor his entire race has ever been attributed with a feat of this kind. Right?

Because when I read the Silmarillian it was my understanding that right from the start, the moment beings set foot on the world, time was in motion and nothing altered its course. Or maybe even before that, the moment the world was created time started.

Remind me why everyone thinks time stop will not work on Gandalf again?

@ To the good OriginalA

“@Pondering Fool: So what you are saying is that no being in Tolken’s world are confirmed to control, alter, or create time and physics save Eru, and yet people keep saying Gandalf, who’s race is at least two steps below Eru, should still somehow be able to pull something like this out of his ass even though neither he nor his entire race has ever been attributed with a feat of this kind. Right?”

Well, from my point of view, Eru creates reality, and everything including Valar, Maiar, elves, and man. He has something called the Flame Imperishable. Here is what wiki said about that:

“Eru is the sole creator of the Flame Imperishable, and hence the only being in Tolkien’s world able to truly create independent life. All beings not created directly by Eru, (e.g. Dwarves,Ents, the Eagles), still need to be blessed by Eru through the Flame Imperishable in order to be more than mere puppets of their creator.”

I believe the Valar and the other spirits that entered “our world” were able to shape it to some extent. Like, one raises a mountain, then Melkor [the jerk also called Morgoth) destroys the mountain. Of course, that is a crappy example, but gets the point across. The “Gods” can change their world to an extent, but not create a new reality (hence, Gandalf can not say “Let there be Light and there was light and etc….”. I know this is a long winded explanation, but hope it helps mate.

- the pondering fool

It isn’t possible. That is why it is called ABSOLUTE zero. I was just pointing how absured Dante’s Royal Block ability is by being able to block an attack that has a temperatur that is below absolute zero, which is an equally absurd concept.

nah, I can deal with breaking the conservation of energy/momentum in cartoons and such.

but when a game tries to make its characters so “cool” and “powerful” that they have less than 0kelvin temperatures… it’s complete fail and deserves a universe facepalm.

There all these wacky theories on FTL travel and such so I am qualified to understand stuff like that. I would really need a PHD in Physics for that, which I have no intention on getting lol.

All gravity is, is a force. If you provide an opposite and equal force to gravity, you have a gravity-less environment. That’s not too unrealistic.

Even Superman with his gravity defying flight is merely defying a force placed on him. In the world of fiction, it’s not too crazy to think that he might have a way of acting upon this force with a force of his own.

The biggest complaint I have with is this is that it seems the writers of these media in question are so uncreative that they must make ridiculously stupid abilities to make their characters seem strong. but all they will get from me is an Epic Fail award.

“All gravity is, is a force. If you provide an opposite and equal force to gravity, you have a gravity-less environment.”

No, that’s not anti-gravity. With your description, any sortof powered flights ( birds, jets, rockets etc ) and even jumping would be considered “anti-gravity”. An Antigravity machine works not by working against the force of gravity, but by weakening it or removing it all together.

SWITCH TO THE METRIC SYSTEM!

Ahem…Rant over.

it seems the only reason this fight has gone on so long is that OriginalA has forgotten one of the key rules of FactPile: No using gameplay mechanics in place of canon. Also OA has forgotten about the No Limit Fallacy mentioned in the rules. Post 17 being a perfect example of this. Also remember unless specified, all the characters have their standard gear, which unfortunately for Link, means no Fierce Deity Mask.

Hey, the only reason why I boast Royal Block up so much is because in the game, and by extention within DMC’s Canon, it has yet to fail to block an attack. Lightning? Blocked.
<0K Ice? Blocked.
Lasers? Blocked.
Sword that can cut through anything including dimensions? Blocked.
Royal Release (a PERFECT Counter attack, and pretty much the exact opposite of the Royal Block)? Blocked!
Holy Based Anti-Demon Beam? Blocked.
Death Beam from the Emperor of the Underworld who is the definition of most powerful entity in the DMC Canon? Blocked (in a cutscene no less)!

Royal Block isn't something that you can scoff at, and I have the proof that backs this up. Also read the post again, I didn't make that fallacy, he has blocked physical attacks that claim that fallacy themselves, he has blocked ice attacks that injured the Good Cap'N's mind because of the sheer stupidity of their informed temperature, he has blocked Hellfire that immolates the soul, he has blocked lightning from … okay you got me there; the best he has done against lightning is just a lightning bolt from a lightning demon. Still Lightning isn't something that can be shrugged off easily and he does it with a wave of his hand.

Okay, so other than the lightning claim, I didn't make a no limits fallacy. I said that he could block damage from those things and he has proof of astounding feats of doing just that when those things are taken to an extreme beyond logic. And even the lightning claim isn't all that far off. It is likely though that he would be able to block a lightning based attack that is taken to the same illogical extreme that the other attacks have been taken too; perhaps even more so because Dante has an affinity for lightning. In DMC 1, 3, & 4 Dante has some lightning crackles of energy when using his charged attacks and in DMC 2 Dante starts out with the Lightning Heart.

I highly doubt that featless Gandalf is going to be able to pull off a lightning bolt so powerful that it would be comepletely uncomparable to anything else that he has already been canonicly able to Royal Block. Yes, I'm aware how stupidily powerful this move is, but that is how it is in the game and by extension the canon of DMC.

I’m on OriginalA’s side. You guys have obviously not been paying attention to what Dante can do in DMC. He is faster than anybody. ANYBODY. Gotrek when up against some blood thing or whatever big whoop, Dante went up against basically satan, and managed to seal him for 2000 years. And guys, they are demons, 0K temp. if they are demons they defy any logic themselves so they could be pushing 0k with there own mind without it moving. who knows? they are demons. Royal guard could destroy both gandalf and the dwarf, Dante is stronger faster and he has more life. Especially with Devil Trigger, and Final Devil Trigger. Dantes standard equipment are guns, ahem let me say that again GUNS, kill from a distance before gandalf could even cast a spell, and his guns never have to reload, Pandora which has 666 different weapons as in guns and explosives to use. Let alone all of Dantes abilities with all of them activated he can move one point five hundredths the speed of light, as proven by a mathematical theory in Dante vs Sephy. Dante threw the savior (a giant at least two hundred ton person) miles with ease. Dante has withstood more than any of these people ever had. Getting shot in the head, his head crushed, his body crushed, burned, stabbed through the heart, spine, etc… And, he hasn’t even died. Dante is just too much for these guys. Even if he didn’t royal block he would just dodge activate DT stun them, and kill them with one swing.
he is way too fast, strong, and smart for them. For reliability on the smartness he analyzed a situation where he bounced the bullets off the wall to kill a large group of enemies, with only two bullets, and hedid it in a split three seconds. This shows extreme mathematical genious. He could get out of a pinch with his smarts, speed, strength, and pretty much anything he has.