Garra sand sheild is quite strong, but since it has been penetrated with enough physical force such as rock lee’s kicks and punches and sasuke attack, which fall far below the kind of power aang can throw against him.

eartbending
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=541gq0qAlx8
firebending
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huMpG4jkv1U&feature=related
airbending
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKmluL9VRAs&feature=related
waterbending
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iegBUjlPN04&feature=related

as well as the skills and powers of past avatars such as roku
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwC67R0nPmQ&feature=related
and kyoshi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50kWNxYCrm4

Wait before I argue this any further I want to know from the admin himself. Is this a fight to the death or is Garra trying to kill Aang and Aang is trying to knockout Garra. That sems to be the Naruto fans last steady arguement.

So please admin let us know what’s what so we can at least settle on that.

firebending
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huMpG4jkv1U&feature=related
airbending
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKmluL9VRAs&feature=related

@Sparks-The reason why I say Aang can freeze water in the air is because most water benders are able to do it since its a basic skill.And since Aang’s water bending skills are only second to Katara then its quite obvious he can freeze water in the air. Also keep in mind since Aang’s waterbending skills are only second to his Air bending skills he is in fact a master at water bending able to cause rain storms and tsunamis with ease. Which also brings another way to win to mind. Simply hitting Garra with a tsunami then freezing the water should be more the proficient for killing him. But I’ll hold back on my comments until admin lets us know whether or not Aang is out for blood. If he is he wins period. If not it 50/50.

@Admin:

Are you doing some freaky stuff today, admin? I’ve gotten server fail messages all day while trying to log in here. Seems very unstable, i cannot even know if my posts get posted.

@Sparks:

My point is that Earthbending and Sandbending is different. Therefore it doesn’t matter if you can bend earth, sand might still be beyond you. Hope that clears up a bit.

I listened to what other said, and most people seemed to believe it to be true. At least the air around him part, as Aang in theory can control any water and freeze it. Inside the body might not work due to being considered Bloodbending, so I have scrapped it in my book. Freeze the air around the target has the same effect. But, since Aang apparently hasn’t figured out this is a possibility, he might not even attempt to use it.

Well, sand is really Gaaras nature too. The sand daemon was placed in him at birth, and he showed near-perfect use as a child. He is not inferior in control, rather the opposite. Aang has to go avatar to wield as much at once as Gaara. And since Aang doesn’t know sandbending, he cannot contest Gaaras control either.

I do not know all that much about the Avatar state, it sounds like his access to it is random and sometimes restricted, based on what i’ve found on thw web anyway. Someone else might know more of this.

@midnite marauder

Alright that’s valid enough, yeah if he can cause rainstorms then that really puts his chances up pretty high, as well as freezing the water.

As to the death vs. no death. It’s really not much of a difference. To say “Aang would fight Gaara but not kill him” is picking and choosing in a hypothetical match, and that’s not really a fair way to go about it. If it can be proven Aang has the necessary abilities and strength to beat Gaara, then obviously he can kill him or get Gaara to give up. But saying he won’t win the fight because he won’t go lethal is just intentionally gimping Aang’s chances. If it’s said “Aang won’t kill Gaara” it can be easily countered with “Aang can indefinitely subdue Gaara” so the only thing to worry about is proving Aang can overpower Gaara, which thereby shows he is able to kill. Regardless if he would willingly do so.

One thing on the things that has passed through the sand shield.

Sasukes Chidori: It was used to cut clean through both the shield and the armor underneath, wounding Gaara for the first time, allowing the Shukaku inside to take over. The technique involves gathering a lot of Lightning Element chakra in his hand, run at extreme speeds before penetrating most anything. You see, in the Naruto universe, Lightning Chakra is known for it extreme penetration power, unlike normal lightning. But considering this was a master technique made by the elite ninja kakashi and used by the genius ninja sasuke, it stands to reason how a smaller and weaker shield than today would fall.

Rock Lees punches: At this time Gaara used a floating shield rather than a solid one, so Lee, who could run faster than the eye could see, moved faster and hit. However, even his immense strength enchanced by opening the 3rd chakra gate failed to wound Gaara. Even though the floating shield was useless, his 2mm thick sand armor blocked and negated punches that could wreck solid rock formations with ease. These days, the sand is harder, almost always total encased and it’s more of it. Had Lee tried this today he would MAYBE land a single blow that would only hit the sand shield.

Just don’t believe the shield is weak these days. Notify me if i missed a sand shield negating event.

Oh right, about lightning.

Sand gets glassed at about 3600 degrees F

Lightning is some 50,000 degrees F (Wonder where I wrote this before.. )

Anyway, I know there’s some person in Avatar that can do the lightning business, so I was wondering if Aang gains this power in Avatar State since he effectively becomes a master of every form of bending.

And I know Gaara’s sand isn’t normal sand, but it’s not Lightning Chakra that’s powerful in Naruto, it’s lightning itself. That’s why that one ultimate technique sasuke used on itachi was regarded as so powerful, because it was ‘natural’ lightning Sasuke was calling down.

That could also prove the point of the natural control of elements being more dangerous than chakra controlled elements in regards to Aang’s earth and Gaara’s earth.

Eh, are reading my posts? The armor alone stopped Lee in 5 gates open form dead in his tracks, the shield was a non factor. And when i talk about the shield now, i refer to the solid version where he packs sand around himself rather than hope he manages to put something between every attack. And as he no longer has problems with a demon eating his personality while he sleeps, he can actually meet up well rested. Onë thing to consider. Small impact, but it does count for something.

The biggest problem with Shukaku removed is that he cannot rely on the Shukaku form if he begins to crumble.

Still, Sasukes Kirin is definitly being powered further by chakra. When he uses the technique, he uses all the energy at once and can crush a byilding with it. Some sort of Chakra enchancement is likely used, even though the power source is raw, powerful ligthning.

according to what iroh said about the subject, lightning does not sound like anyreal bending, or real liht nig, though i could b wrong, he says that its separating ying and yang energies , then allowing them to reform which releases the energy

Why is this so easily true? Winds in naruto seems to do nothing our own wind doesn’t, yet elemental chakra has a cutting power in the extreme, even at lower levels. By appying that logic, natural lightning does not neccesarily pack penetration, rather it packs untold heat and genral destruction. My thoughts on it anyway.

I base my belief it is echanced by chakra in that the building it is used on break into several pieces. This is neither representative by lightning in our own world or in narutos world, where what we have seen of lightnin(the elemental sort) punches cleanly through stuff rather than break it into pieces. Therefore i believe that it is real lightning with some added property. If he can empty all the enrgy at once, this doesn’t seem to unreasonable.

The citizens of the Sunagakure have to speciallr prepare for the sandstorms by putting the guards around the town and what not.

Gaara through his jutsu can manipulate this kind of thing.

Aang with his Avatar abilities can create it.

stop spamming on…

…its getting so…

… please ….

The problem is that the Lightning in Kirin CRUSH, and that ain’t natural. And since Kishimoto has said something at one point and another later(though you could kinda guess by reading carefully) I say this is just such an example. It might be complete and utter fail, but this is the nature of Kirin as I’ve seen it after reading Sasuke vs Itachi.

And even if real winds can cut(which I have little knowledge about, school hasn’t taught me this) they will pull sooner than cut. And the one big natural wind in Naruto made trees bend, but it didn’t cut anything, wheras even the weakest of wind techniques cut to the extreme. Like Asuka(?) Sarutobis chakra reactive knife. I’m not convinced.

I think …

soz

@Whacko-If you don’t know what yor talking about then why comment on it until after you’ve properly research it. It makes no sense to do otherwise unless you enjoy making yourself look like an ass.

@shaun182-My thoughts exactly. This match should be over by now since you and myself have shown irrefutable evidence of Aangs victory. The only one still challenging itt is Whacko and is doing a very bad job at it.

And Gaara’s very much mentioned sister can use winds to wreck forests in seconds, yet it has no effect at all. The cutting properties of the wind will not be sufficent. The trick that was mentioned earlier about pulling away the air is more lethal, and i’ve already said i acknowledge that Gaara would lose if this is a common trick in Aangs arsenal. And i haven’t properly researched the exact properties of very strong winds because i have never seen anything in the real world that suggests it. Had i knew the potensial i would of course have looked it up. Apart from this, have I miscalculated something? If so, tell me what. Telling me i look like an ass doesn’t help at all. Your constant swearing is what made me invite Sparks over to the discussion in the first place.

@Sparks: My proof is merely that the building Sasuke and Itachi was fighting on broke when Kirin impacted. Broke into several pieces, in fat. Here’s the page:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/391/10/

As you can see, the building is crushed. Yet the lightning hasn’t done very much the the ground beneath the wreckage, unlike what enormous hole it would have created if it was truly penetrating power at that scale. It cannot be a big bad version of Chidori, that would have carved perhaps a hundred metres hole downwards.

And the wind i debate, from temari, is merely chakra winds created with a big fan. It is not focused in any way, as it hits randomly like normal wind over a large area, yet it cuts even trees apart. And this wind work like that. Normal winds of equal power in the series have no such properties whatsoever.

And this is very ineffective against Gaara. It’s probably even safe to asume that her wind summon cannot hurt him, as she states several times that he is impossible to damage before seeing Sasuke. And after this she still regards Gaara as a warrior easily capapable of beting her.

@Whacko

Oh okay, I thought you were speaking of some sort of compacting like a solid weight. Lightning (even in our own world) actually does have concussive property to it, and the bolt Sasuke called down is actually a much larger one that typically seen in our world. (Keyword typically, there have been occassions of titanic sized bolts though) However a bolt that size destroying a building really isn’t outside the boundaries of a natural lightning bolt. Besides this, the Kirin has been confirmed as natural lightning directed with chakra. So the Kirin would still be classified as natural lightning.

Temari’s winds really only serves the purpose of saying wind elemental chakra isn’t as good or lacks enough force against Gaara. Like I said the Sunagakure (or however you spell it) shields itself whenever the sandstorms come in because the wind could potentially rend skin from bone. Aang can create such wind currents.

Also to note about Temari, regardless if she can, through chakra, create wing with properties to what we see, it’s not fair to relegate Aang’s own powers to those of hers. We know Aang is the master of elements and more specifically air itself so it’s pretty correct to say he can create larger gusts of wind with greater force than Temari. And in line with natural elements being more powerful than chakra related ones, it’s not a stretch to say a ‘natural’ hurricane amplified by the Avatar’s control over it is enough to make match of Gaara’s defenses.

@marauder: Okay, i miscalculate a lot, okay. Where? Tell me.

And i’m usually fine with a bit of swearing, but come on. You do take it a bit far. And if your only response to hearing it is “pussy hole with virgin ears”, I don’t think i’ll bother bringing it up anymore. Just a reference, really.

@Sparks:

I do know lightning is packs some punch, my only concern is the sheer amount of damage casued to a building like that. If Lightning can pack THAT amount of power in a single cloud, then i didn’t really manage to catch it’s maximum potential, and i confess, marauder, that my own small calc on it was utter fail. This was a bit beyond what I thought it could.

You shield yourself against sandstorms as much because of the sand particles in the air as the winds themselves. Such winds get a lot of the destructive power on account of sand, so the wind cannot get all the glory in that.

Andmy note on Temari does not imply i think of Aang cannot do more, but if you have no problem with winds that cuts entire forstes that contain trees that 10 meter i diameter, it’s still tough going. A lot of wind is needed, and if powerful enough winds arise any half brained creature would leg it. In gaaras case that means encase in sand and get out before the full burnt of the tornado hits home. If he’s forced to stay he could at the very least use max force to win. You will need tornado level power to deflect all that sand, and i doubt and can make two such winds simoultaneously(sp?)

After all of this, i still think that freezing and depletion of oxygen is the best bet, and that other powers may be tanked or destroyed before they get up to speed. (yeah, i said it. You turn marauder.)

Magma: Not sufficently hot to either melt steel or glass sand, gaaras sand will take this. The whole point is also to stop it at range, Gaara will know that it it gets too close he’s done for.

Freezing is disregarded because Gaara can continually get more of it(by crushing rocks) so trying to freeze it all wil take a while. But freezing the water around Gaaras body will do, i’ve admitted that long ago.

If he cannot crush it all he will make his sand as hard as possible with as much as possible while getting out of the way. Should work.

@Whacko

As for the lightning sasuke used, it was of a much greater size than really any lightning bolt you’ve seen, so I understand the misconception on it’s power, but a bolt big enough even in our world that can surround an entire structure like that most certainly would reduce it to rubble.

As to the sandstorm — Perhaps the ’sharp’ effect of it could be attributed to the texture of the sand, but the force behind it is all wind. Now, more to the sandstorm, Aang can also control earth and as such sand as well. But the main point of the sandstorm is that the sheer force of wind created by a natural storm like that can cause grains of sand to be massively damaging. So take the master of elemens like Aang and use a magnified wind force, only push basketball sized rocks, or ice, or flaming balls of magma, whatever you like. The main point there is that Aang can emulate a sandstorm basically, but given precise manipulation via airbending powers he could in effect surpass it, which really hasn’t been shown in Naruto.

As to Temari, as I said i’m not particularly well informed on every single Naruto character, but to my recollection it was Temari’s summoned weasel that actually cut the forest, not her and her fan.

Furthermore, yes we know Temari couldn’t get past Gaara’s shield with her wind chakra. However natural elements in the naruto world are said to greatly surpass in power their elemental chakra counterparts. Aang not only uses the natural elements but he can potentially magnify them as an Avatar.

So think of it as: Wind Chakra (Temari) < Natural Elements < Avatar Natural Elements (Aang's)

The scale is much, much greater when used in context with an Avatar's abilities.

Now, if Gaara is still able to handle all of this and prove to be a potentially life threatening obstacle for Aang, that would only serve to activate the Avatar State which from some of the stunts Aang has done, is very firmly out of Gaara's league.

According to AvatarWiki Aang while in Avatar Sate can erode pure rock with a single gust of air, and can influence the ocean the same way the moon does during it's cycle.

So, the most probable ways this'll play out are:
1) Aang outmaneuvers the sand with his agility and deflection via wind bursts, and uses some sort of offense in the form of sharp winds, magma, or the freezing rain thing Marauder mentioned (Mayhaps a combination of all 3 of them )

or 2) Gaara's shield stands it's ground (which seems less likely.. but eh) and he begins to surround Aang with sand (given Aang's own control over earth, this would be another iffy situation for this to work) and being on the border of death Aang goes into Avatar State and sweeps all the sand under the rug.

So really odds are stacked for Gaara. We know Aang can do more damage than Temari's winds. And we know natural element takes front seat instead of chakra manipulation. <– This could also serve to support theories of Aang being able to counter Gaara's chakra sand with his own natural control over the earth element.

shaun182 has it right. Also Whacko I do apologize if I offended you in any way. My patience is a bit limited these days since I just got a surgery done.

@Whacko-Hey apologized didn’t I? And don’t bakc down if you think yor right unless your absoulutley proved wrong. Quiters never win.

Also, quitters never win. That’s true. But people who argues with other who don’t see the same as themselves won’t win either. It’ll just beand endless cycle of the same arguments.

Eh, i just need to answer this before leaving.

Earthbending and Sandbending is different. It was the side supporting Aang that came up with it, and the example convinced me that sand is beyond Aang. If he had any kind of real power over sand my whole basis of debate would be ruined and the debate would never have gotten this long.

Lees’ attacks never broke through the shield. When opening 5 chakra gates his strenght increases to the point where he is utterly impossible to see when moving, you only see a blur when he stops to hit. A hit that send people flying 30 metres with severe injuries, and this is tough as nails fighters we talk about. In this mode he was so fast that the shield couldn’t keep up, so all of Lees’ attacks hit the armor of sand where it lay invisible on Gaaras skin. After delivering a world of hurt like hell itself had broken loose, Gaara simply crushed Lee and then got back on his feet, completely unharmed. And that armor is no more than a few millimetres thick. The shield I have envisioned Gaara using is the tightly packed version he used against sasuke. That is half a metre thick, and more resilent than back then. It’s fairly safe to asume Lee has fat chance of really breaking the shield at full power.

Okay NOW i’m done. Cya elsewhere.

@Whacko

Yeah I just read sand bending is a ’specialty’ of earth bending light lightning is a specialty of fire bending so unless he can do that in Avatar State Gaara’s sand won’t be moved.

However, given the entire ‘natural overcomes chakra’ which factually exists in Naruto, then Aang’s abilities of the ice, magma, earth and wind still come into play and can potentially trump Gaara’s shield the main 2 being of any use would be wind and ice.

Now earlier you said to counter the freezing point that Gaara can just break down rock for more sand. The problem with that defense is that Aang can certainly control any surrounding rocks in the vicinity, and thus break down the amount of sand Gaara has via freezing it repeatedly, as well as Gaara’s should he get the chance.

Ontop of this, precision wind strikes or even hurricanes created around Gaara could also cause problems, and add more of an advantage to Aang.

From a defensive standpoint, Aang also is capable of rock armor or something of the sort. Now, Aang has pretty top notch agility and maneuverability but the rock armor would help him repel sand should a part of his body be caught. To a greater degree, if he is surrounded by it and death is imminent (big if) then the Avatar State takes over.

You said if Gaara surrounds you you die instantly. However fitting Aang with a case the exact size of his body is unlikely giving his speed as well as ability to redirect the sand with forceful gusts of wind. If Gaara used the giant wave of sand like he tried with Deidara then the most probable solution is A) Aang creates an opening with his powers (wind, rock wall, what have you) or B) Goes Avatar State.

Aang already has a pretty decent advantage given his control and greater arsenal. The Avatar State simply is the clencher. If Aang’s attacks in normal form cannot defend against or hurt Gaara (which is a stretch to say given he magnifies natural elements) then an Avatar State transformation is imminent, and the Avatar State simply outclasses Gaara.

“How can you continually disregard, things like lava which would, eat through garra sand even if its steel like are not, as well as the immense heat would effect him as well.”
Because Aang cant shoot lava.

“aang can freeze garra’s sand in place, coating his sand sheild, in a thick wall of ice and if trapped in this ice bubble he wont be able to control sand since he cant just pull it out of ice.”

Since you are freezing one whole layer of the shield and not the individual sand particles, Gaara would churn the sand and have it break out of the shield, and the whole desrert of sand in the area gives him a lot to work with.

“And i dont know how his sheild will survive an impact from hundreds of tons of rock, since i dont see him turning it, into sand before it all comes crashing down on him with tremendous force.”

How fast have you seen aang, or any earth bender, throw those huge rocks? As far as I’ve seen Big ones go slow and the small ones go fast. Not only could Gaara pull an enourmus amount of sand into some sort of defense, he could just dodge it.

“Wait before I argue this any further I want to know from the admin himself. Is this a fight to the death or is Garra trying to kill Aang and Aang is trying to knockout Garra. That sems to be the Naruto fans last steady arguement.”
Aang has energybending, we don’t know if its compatible with garra or not. If it is, Aang will fail and lose his bending, If not then gaara crushes aang easily. Aang is garunteed to use this if he survives long enough.

The reason why I say Aang can freeze water in the air is because most water benders are able to do it since its a basic skill.And since Aang’s water bending skills are only second to Katara then its quite obvious he can freeze water in the air. Also keep in mind since Aang’s waterbending skills are only second to his Air bending skills he is in fact a master at water bending able to cause rain storms and tsunamis with ease. Which also brings another way to win to mind. Simply hitting Garra with a tsunami then freezing the water should be more the proficient for killing him. But I’ll hold back on my comments until admin lets us know whether or not Aang is out for blood. If he is he wins period. If not it 50/50.”
…Do you seriously believe that? The number of waterbenders that can use microscopic amounts of water can be counted on one hand…3 and none of them are an avatar, none of them have taught aang how to do that, and NONE of them can freeze water in the air.
Aang has NEVER made a storm and no one else has either.

“Whacko I just realized that Garra doesn’t have the sand demon anymore anyways and since we always use current incarnations the shield is no longer automatic meaning if Rock Lee, the only character besides Neji who makes the show worth watching, would obliterate him.”
“…Do you seriously believe that?”

“Until the lightning business for Avatar State is confirmed though this really isn’t a valid argument, however in the Naruto universe the natural elements seem to take weight over the Chakra manipulations.”
No, aang cant shoot lightning, the same reason why he cant shoot lava, or freeze air, or make a air lock bubble. He dosent know how, he never learned how and even the avatar state cant change that.

“Whacko’s post 218 no, it’s natural lightning. Sasuke uses his chakra to aim it and dictate the target, but the technique is to call upon the lightning. It’s not coming from sasuke and it isn’t created with elemental chakra. Sasuke’s control over it is the summoning and aiming, not the output.”

But you cant just say that ALL jutsu’s are weaker than their natural counterparts. Sauske has made fire hot enough to slightly melt rocks, gaara’s SUPER hard sand. The reason he used normal lightning is probably one of two reasons:
1.Sauske had no remaing chakra(He was running low at the time)
2.Ninja’s in the naruto world cant generate the same output as a lightning bolt.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/391/05/

And also, I don’t understand how this scene was taken out of the manga and is now being used to say “natural elements > chakra elements”. Clearly, what was being implied was that most if not all shinobi in the Naruto world cannot generate the same amount of power as a lightning bolt with their lightning jutsu. Umm, cause know, the power of even a natural lightning bolt varies… This relates back to how you have yet to prove lightning bending in the Avatar universe is at the same as an avaerage lightning bolt.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/391/08/

I mean, for gawd’s sakes, when was the last time you’ve seen “natural lightning” take the form of a dragon?

How does this suddenly imply Naruto ninja’s can’t generate the same amount of heat with thier flames? Natural water is more wet than the water generated by their jutsu? Natural wind is better than “chakra wind”. When was the last time you’ve seen a “natural breeze” ( I say “breeze” because I’m ignoring that the “power” of natural “elements” vary just as you did ) level a forest the same way as Temari did?

Really, I’m shocked as to how you took this one statement, which simply implies that Naruto ninjas can’t generally generate the same power as a lightning bolt ( neither can Azula or any other lightning benders in the Avatar Universe btw ) and turned it into “Chakra makes everything weaker”.

Damn, I should have re-read my posts. Why was I in such a rush…

“If he has not shown the capability to do any of these things, then its NOT valid for this fight.”

*fixed*

Also as to post #261:

No it was more clear cut than an implication, it says the natural element move of lightning is more powerful than anything a human can produce.

That is pretty cut and dry, you’d have to try to not understand it.

Now as to Aang, the highest scale winds ‘our’ world knows of are classified as Hurricane winds, which actually do have enough force to uproot trees and such, similar to Temari’s little dance.

People keep comparing Naruto stuffs to elemental occurances in our own world just based on various stories and such you hear about.

Aang can create winds that surpass hurricane level (In Avatar form anyway) and can direct and control them to a very specific target. Hurricane winds we know of pass over things and cause supreme distruction just as a random occurance as they pass over. If an entire hurricane was specifically going from the top of a jungle canopy to the ground floor, the trees and everything else would most certainly be wiped off the earth.

Aang can direct these sorts of wind attacks, and any other various elements he can control. As I don’t know a great deal about Avatar compared to Naruto, I can’t really go into detail about what elements Aang can or can’t manipulate, so you’ll have to use your own knowledge or someone who’s a bigger fan of the series for them.

Aang’s abilities:

Airbending- has no ofensive capabilities, airbending is a peaceful practice that uses wind to redirect or repel attacks. He can fly, create small(handheld) tornados, push people and objects with air and “create gale force winds capable of eroding rock”.

I dont quite agree with winds that powerful, the rock colloums that aang broke were long and thin, on top of that he is an earthbender, furthermore if these winds are that powerful Ozai should have been sucked in by these winds, he was close to aang while aang was doing this.

Can someone give a credible source,not a wiki, for the “gale force/erosion winds” statement?

Waterbending- is the ability to control water, turn it to ice, and back to water. Aang cannot bloodbend or control the miniscule amounts of water in plants or animals. He CAN control large amounts of water though.

Firebending- the manipulation of flames usualy comming from ones own body, it HAS defensive capabilities, but aang only knows the “regular” type(the kind zuko used against azula). He cannot magmabend, create fires from a distance, create walls of fire, or shoot lightning.

Earthbending- is simply, controling rock. Aang can make sheilds and armor out of stone,sense vibrations through the earth(if his skin is touching the earth), throw rocks at high(mach) speeds(deepends on the size of rock), and (when in the avatar state) control rocks from a distance and condense them. He cannont metalbend, sandbend, or use his seismic sense through sand.

While in the avatar state aang gains an increased mastery over his current skills. Basically, he only gets the ability to control several elements at once, and uses more of each of those elements. He does not gain any extra abilities outside of the avatar state. The rule is: if he cant do it outside of the avatar state, he cannot do it in the avatar state.

“because these several examples of him doing just that such as in the first episode he used water bending in order to freeze himself for a hundred years without learning water bending”

When I saw the episode in which aang had a flashback of this moment, he seemed to use airbending to create a sphere around himself,the freezing sems to have been an accident. If he entered the avatar state and got the idea to freeze himself, he could have gotten out using waterbending, katara did it so why cant he? On top of that, T.V. shows have a nack of doing something in the first episode then saying they cant do so throughout the show.

If you freeze yourself in suspended animation you cant undo, it youself otherwise it would suspended animation, we also see in the first episode he uses water bending against zuko whilst in the avatar state, having never learnt it.

1:10 in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOrxeA4jqNY

for magmabending would be a mixture of earth and firebending however since we know at least one
avatar has done it, so can aang
not even counting the times roku and kyoshi did it, so we might not understand the mechanics of it but as it has been shown an avatar can control magma, so can aang in A.S., as well as any other ability they would possess, since they are part of him and his soul they are not counted as outside help.

Damnit I did it again! >=(

“not even counting the times roku and kyoshi did it, so we might not understand the mechanics of it but as it has been shown an avatar can control magma, so can aang in A.S., as well as any other ability they would possess, since they are part of him and his soul they are not counted as outside help.”

You are still talking about the time when avatar roku’s ghost entered Aang’s body and possesed it, it wasnt the avatar state. Kyoshi only broke a piece of a continento off to make an island when did she bend magma?

“katara pre-planned her move,she also wasnt at the bottom of the ocean, she just froze
a small amount whilst holding back enough energy to start unfreeze it.”

You said Aang was in the avatar state, he obviously had enough energy to to freeze and unfreeze some water. There also dosent seem to be any amount of energy required to bend , no charester has ever run out of bending.

“it quite clearly waterbending since he wouldnt need A.S. to airbend he is already
a master at that, it also fits with every other example of waterbending in the
show,”

He also wouldnt need the A.S. to swim back to the surface, but it came out anyway. I didnt say the, supposed, waterbending wasnt linear with the rest of the series, but the avatar state’s presentation and abilities. In book 2 aang is having an EXTREEMLEY hard time drawing out the A.S., but in the first episode, being submerged in water is enough to trigger it.

“im not a writer for avatar, i do not have any control over what they make aang do,
so even if i do believe he could have used earthbending to save her and they made him
use airbending does not mean he couldnt have done it another way.”

He didnt save her at all, he was at the mercy of the general even in avatar state, after the general lets her go aang finaly powers down.

“Im sure aang was in the avatar state with roku’s ghost due to the glowing eyes
and tattoos,and for kyoshi in order to create and move an island you need to
manipulate magma flow underneath, how ever if you need proof over her magma bending
checkout 1 minute into this video.”

Even If he was, he was STILL possesed,remember the moon spirit’s giant fish, aang cant do that by himself. The point is spiritual posesion would be Aang + spirit + temple, aang wont be able to access the last two.

@EnigmaJ

This is a response to your post 266 about Aang dishing out more powerful winds than nature has seen –

In Avatar state he can erode rock almost instantly.

Not talking about slicing or piercing, just using the force of the wind.

So that’s why I said that surpasses levels heard of on our own wind scale.

But if those winds are that strong then, why didnt ozai get blown/sucked away/in?

“In Avatar state he can erode rock almost instantly.
Not talking about slicing or piercing, just using the force of the wind.
So that’s why I said that surpasses levels heard of on our own wind scale.”

1) I re-watched the fight. I saw none of this.

2) This would not prove ALL of Aang’s elements are “superior to natural ones”, something your trying to pass on in this debate.

3) Why does this matter when were looking at a sand defense harder than steel and a sand offense hard enough to crush steel. Or when Gaara can create a desert full of sand with little effort. Aang’s airbending will only hold his inevitable sand burial.

Garra’s abilities to control sand are impressive, but much of that did come from the Shukaku. He is able to control any sand he wishes and break down other earth element into sand, both of these things required substantial amounts of chakra and focus to do them which is why Garra carries sand with him which is actually specialised to respond to his commands because he has spent time lacing it with his chakra. So even though he has the ability to control any sand he wants and break down more, without the Shukaku he is limited to his own chakra and as a kage leve ninja he is going to be aware of this limitation and is less likely to use several tons of unmodified sand than sand he can use with greater ease.

Sandbening is actually an offshoot of earthbending created by desert dwelling peoples of the Earth Kingdom, because of sand’s inconsistent nature, sandbending tends to resemble water and air bending arts than traditional earthbending styles which tend to use more solid materials. Any earthbender should beable to earthbend sand, as sand is just a form of earth, any earthbender could bend sand, the only reason Toph had trouble was because she couldn’t detect the vibrations in the sameway as through earth. Aang as never been shown to use sand in combat however so since he has never been observed doing so in the show it is not a variable in this fight. Same thing goes for bloodbending and lightning.

Bloodbending is describe as the bending of any water that resides within the body. This is only possible during the fullmoon as described by the show. Lightning is desribed as only usable by people who are able to drain themselves of emotion, something Aang as been shown unable to do. So while Aang is capable of learning and using these techniques, he has never shown an ability for them in the show so they are not a factor in this fight. Metalbending follows the same category as above, learnable but as of the last episode he is never show using it.

The Avatar State when activated allows the current Avatar to gain all the knoweledge and power of all the previous Avatars that came before him or her. This works by allowing all the previous Avatars to inhabit the body of the current avatar. So yes, anything that any previous Avatar knew Aang would know while in the Avatar State. Though none have actually been shown to us sand, blood, metal or lightning so that is a moot point. Though any thing with air, earth, water and water he should be able to do, at a scale that would cause natural desaster level of ecological damage. Even anchore Garra would have to bo going into the 100 ton range of weight in order to escape the wind speeds involved in tornados and hurricanes, not to mention tsunamis, earthquakes and the ability to relegate flame intensity.

I think this is a fight will be determined on whether or not Garra could get an early victory or not. If not, I see the longer the fight going the lower his chances as chakra exhaustion and injuries from being tossed around would begin to overwhelm him. Where as Aang is more likely to take longer to start using his heavy hitting abilities, so as the fight goes on the better his chances are because he’ll start escalating his power once he starts to realise how serious Garra is.

“No, the avatar SIDE is throwing away large scales ( though not quite as big, but I’ve still yet to see any examples ), without really proving any benders could achieve such feats.”

fixed*

…Wait, sand is porous, couldn’t Aang just bend some water over Garra’s face and wait for him to pass out?

“Perhaps not in the scales of a category 5 hurrican or a 10.0 earthquake but something in the range of a F2-F3 tornado would not be out of Aang’s abilities”

I don’t recall Aang ever creating any kind of tornado.

“Does his sand stop the transfer of motion?”

The movement of the sand is constantly under his control.

“…Wait, sand is porous, couldn’t Aang just bend some water over Garra’s face and wait for him to pass out?”

1) This assumes Gaara is going to remain stationary.

2) Porous or not, this assumes the water is just going to ignore the sand all together. Not only that, but this would only be an “issue” ( I quote, because it’s not ) with his sand in its normal state, which can be compressed to such densities that it assumes a hardness more than that of steel. Water isn’t getting through this.

“because creating and moving a landmass that would weigh several hundered tonnes at least, by controlling the flow of tonnes of molten rock in order to move it all whilst starring down an army of earthbenders, is not grand enough for you”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50kWNxYCrm4

(0:50+)

1) “Creating”? “Creating” a landmass? You did a nice job with the flowery language, but this did not happen. She seperated a small section of land from the rest of the continent.

2) And “landmass”? Your referring to blip of rock that wouldn’t even appear on a map as a “landmass”? Hah, I used the term “small island” for a reason.

3) And yes, the same army that stared in awe, dropped their weapons, and ran in the opposite direction. That army.

And your trying to compare this to moving a vast expanse of sand, enough so that it can partially cover a large section of a massive city from a bomb powerful enough to wipe it from the face of the Earth, all the while controlling it so nimbly and perfectly agaisnt a fast moving enemy taking advantage of all of his weak spots? The same sand, mind you, which can reduce a human being to a pool of blood and can apply enough pressure to crush even steel? What is Aang going to do with this island feat? Drop him into a hole?

Hah, again. This fight ends is over in seconds.

“I was speaking about the sand armor, would that counter the transfer of motion?”

1) If your talking about the layer of sand on his skin, then no, it doesn’t stop him from being pushed back. But it does dampen physical damage, as seen from him taking blows from Lee with several gates opened, and it further gives him the possibility to use a substitution using his sand, something Aang would not be prepared for.

2) I don’t see why this matters when-
a) He can have large amounts of sand block such attacks and attacking Aang at the same time.
b) He can create powerful walls of dense sand that would further protect him. Shield of Shukaku and he won’t have anything to worry about.

“And since Garra is getting the advantage of have a large expanse of sand to call upon, Aang should get the advantage of a large expanse of water.”

Not really, Garra has the advantage of a large expanse of sand where ever he is. Gaara started his fight against Kimimaro in a clearing in a forest, but by the end of the fight, it was a desert. Neither side has a home field advantage.

“See Sozin’s Comet part 3 i think where he uses waterbending to raise the ocean levels, and where Aang created a Tidal Wave in the second episode of the Fire arc.”

Looking.

Aang did in fact move the water in the ocean to put out the fires by taping into his Avatar State.

“Aang did in fact move the water in the ocean to put out the fires by taping into his Avatar State.”
This is a fact? I happen to know a good lake that was nearby.

we dont even know how much of the shukaku’s power gaara was using, and after his fight with lee, he stopped relying on the auto defense and did it himself.