Enterprise hands down, all they’d have to do is beam a matter/antimatter bomb or nuclear device aboard and that’s that.

It would just be a matter of them getting within transporter range.

I believe it depends greatly upon who the captain is of the Enterprise at the time of the fight.

Winner: Enterprise ::ENGAGE::

Hey, I love both ST and RT, but lets put things in perpective:

Length of SDF-1: 1210 meters
Length of Enterprise: 289 meters

Crew of SDF-1: 20,000 military, 58,000 civilian
Crew of Enterprise: 430

You’ve got to realize that the SDF-1 could step on enterprise and not realize it. The pictures at the top of the page don’t do the scale difference justice. Kirk didn’t beat V-ger in a fight, he talked it out of destroying the Earth. In a straight fight, SDF-1 is going to win hands down. And if you do overload its omnidirectional barrier, you’re toast because it will explode with enough force to level the surface of a planet out to a radius of 20 miles, yet leave the SDF-1 undamaged.

how about the whole halo fleet (convenant and humans) vs. The whole star wars fleet (droids and others…)

interesting…admin (pontifixx)

the sdf-1 wins easely, heck even one single VF-1S strike valkyrie can take doen the enterprise with reflex weaponry. Now if you want even more destructive power they can use macross frontier’s VF-171EX with “dimension eater” warheads wich basicvally rip apart space & time.

Has anybody considered veritechs/variable fighters in this??

The SDF-1 without a doubt. If I was Kirk, I would piss off the citizen of Macross City.

somebody make a metal gear vs ramdom pther mecha one on topic: sdf-1 will own

On another note, does the SDF-1 get it’s VF complement?

SDF-1 without a doubt

“Okay, yeah, we can call this because there is no way in h*ll that the enterprise is surviving the kind of reflex warhead salvos that the SDF-1 and it’s VFs can lay down.”

Why brother with that the SDF-1′s Main cannon is more than powerful enough to destroy the Enterprise

VERO-TECH FIGHTERS! SDF-1 FTW Enterprise can suck it!

Destroid Monster
Also known as: MAC II Monster
Heavy Artillery Destroid

STATISTICS:

Designation: HWR-00
Mecha Class: Battloid
Crew: 3 crewmen
Weight: 285.5 tons (without barrels), 378.5 tons combat ready

Depth: 22.1m (without barrels), 41.1m (with barrels)
Height: 22.5m
Breadth: 24.0m
Max walking speed: 41 kph
Max hover speed: 52 kph

ARMAMENT
4 x 406mm cannons with 28 rounds total, mounted on the top
2 x triple missile launch tubes with 2 x 530mm missiles in each tube. Each triple tube forms one arm.

A view of the Destroid Monster from below

The Destroid Monster takes a step

DESCRIPTION:

The HWR ‘Monster’ artillery destroid is the largest weapon system ever fielded by the United Earth Defence Forces. Designed to field the largest caliber of artillery on a mobile platform, the Monster can, for a few seconds, outshoot an old World War II battleship.

The Monster is designed as a mobile siege cannon, intended for use against heavily armored targets such as starships and planetary bases. In order to achieve this, the Monsters’ main armament is optimized for armour-piercing qualities. However, the 406mm cannons of the Monster are inefficient, as artillery goes, against any other target.

The Monster is a platform for its main cannons, and thus carries little other armament. There are six launch tubes for heavy missiles in the arms, and as mentioned the main cannons can be fired directly at enemy mecha. The barrels of the main cannons are made of material technologies derived from the information found on board the SDF-1, and as a result weigh only a sixth that of normal 406mm barrels. However, barrel life is reduced to at average 30 shells, and thus the designers built the Monster with external barrels which can be easily replaced. Usually, the supply department ships a new set of barrels with every 120 rounds.

The Monster is well armored around its cockpit and ammunition magazine, but the rest of the mecha is only fitted with anti-splinter armour, to keep the weight down. This is done because the mecha is not really intended for the front lines, although it is, by necessity, occasionally used there.

http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/viewmecha.php?id=15

Destroid Defender
Also known as: Raidar X
Air Defense Destroid

STATISTICS:

Designation: ADR-04-Mk X

Crew: 1 pilot.
Weight: 21.7 tons (dry), 27.1 tons (loaded)

Height: 10.8m
Breadth: 8.6m
Depth: 4.3m
Max walking speed: 98 kph loaded

ARMAMENT
2 x twin 78mm anti-aircraft guns mounted in the arms

A Defender on the deck of the SDF-1

DESCRIPTION:

The Destroid Defender was the first of two mecha to be derived from the Tomahawk chasis. Equipped with four long-range 78mm anti-aircraft guns, this mecha was intended to defend airbases and the large spacecraft of the early Earth forces from enemy attacks. These weapons were extremely powerful, and coupled with the extensive radar suite with which the mecha was equipped, this allowed the Defender to engage and destroy threats at great ranges, especially in space.

The mecha is equipped with vernier thrusters, making it capable of limited space operations. In most cases, the mecha was used on the deck of the SDF-1, and its capacity to maneuver in zero gravity was limited to propelling itself back toward the ship’s deck, if it is ever knocked off.

http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/viewmecha.php?id=13

Destroid Phalanx
Also known as:
Artillery Battloid

STATISTICS:

Designation: SDR-04-Mk XII
Mecha Class: Battloid
Crew: 1 pilot.
Weight: 22.2 tons (dry), 47.2 tons (loaded)

Height: 12.7m (total), 11.3m (w/o searchlight)
Breadth: 7.5m
Depth: 5.0m
Max walking speed: 72 kph loaded

ARMAMENT
2 x missile bins. Each bin has 11 missiles at the ready and another 11 in each magazine. Missiles are 430mm long-ranged missiles, and are usually used in an anti-air capacity, though artillery rockets can also be carried.

Several Phalanxes on the deck of the SDF-1

A Destroid Phalanx prepares to fire its missiles

DESCRIPTION:

Like the Defender, the Destroid Phalanx was based on the chasis of the MBR-04 Destroid Tomahawk. First designed and deployed aboard the SDF-1, the Phalanx was intended to serve as a walking missile battery, capable of delivering air defense missiles to protect the SDF-1 from Zentraedi attacks. Late in the First Robotech War, this mecha was refit with reflex missiles and used in the final massive attack against Dolza’s fortress. After the First Robotech War, surviving mecha were dispersed to protect airbases in New Macross and near-by cities, like Monument.

The mecha is equipped with vernier thrusters, making it capable of limited space operations. In most cases, the mecha was used on the deck of the SDF-1, and its capacity to maneuver in zero gravity was limited to propelling itself back toward the ship’s deck, if it is ever knocked off.

http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/viewmecha.php?id=14

The above are just a few of what the SDF-1 had to defend itself.

SDF-1
Also known as: Super Dimension Fortress One, Macross, Zor’s Battlefortress
Super Dimensional Fortress

STATISTICS:

Designation: SDF-1
Class: Space Vessel.
Crew: 3500 crewmen, 1500 pilots and air group, 11000 troops and other personnel

Length: 1210m
Width: 339m (original hull), 496m (with Earth carriers)
Height: 312m
Mass: 18,000,000 tons (operational)
Range: Full solar system transit capability, unlimited fold range

ARMAMENT (after 2009 Earth refit)
1 x Reflex cannon (heavy particle beam)
8 x main particle cannon, one under the main hull, three on the upper main hull, two on the flanks of the reflex cannon, and two on the upper legs.
1 x secondary triple-barreled particle cannon, mounted on the forward main hull. Sometime into the war this turret was refitted with six missile launchers rather than its cannons.
4 x single barrel rail cannons mounted on the shoulders.
16 x triple barreled laser/particle beam turrets scattered around the hull.
12 x torpedo tube, capable of launching strategic missiles.
48 x ten-tube missile launcher box, firing defensive missiles, scattered around the hull.
Numerous single-use missile launchers were installed by the crew prior to the battle against Dolza’s Fortress

~200 VF-1 Veritech Valkyrie fighters.
~120 QF-3000E Ghost drone fighters.
~150 Destroids
~ 50 AEW aircraft, space shuttles, and other small auxiliary craft

SDF-1 after its modular transformation

The SDF-1 prepares to fire its giant Reflex Cannon.

DESCRIPTION:

One of the best known vessels, if not the best known vessel, of the Robotech Wars is the SDF-1 battlefortress. Originally, this was a battlefortress belonging to the Robotech Masters, but it escaped to and crashed on Earth under orders from Zor. The planet Earth spent almost a decade repairing the ship and learning its secrets, then went to war with the Zentraedi fleets that came to retrieve the battlefortress. During the war, much of Macross City was recreated inside the ship, an amazing feat of creative use of available internal spaces.

The forward half of the ship is made up of the main armament. On the flanks here are some of the mecha hangars. Behind this is the central hull, command citadel and the ‘shoulders’ with additional hangars. At the rear are the main reaction engines and the engineering sections. After its first and only fold in human service, two naval carriers were attached to the shoulders. The hull could be transformed into something resembling a humanoid shape, with the main gun booms protruding out of the shoulders. The original purpose for this ability is unknown, though speculation runs towards better engineering access for repairs and refits.

As a vessel, the SDF-1 is relatively small and carries few mecha compared to the main line of Zentraedi vessels. The main cannon can destroy any enemy ship, but only one or two at a time, and it has a lengthy recharge cycle. It is suspected that it is more of a planetary bombardment weapon than an anti-ship cannon. However, its secondary particle beam armament is more powerful than those on Zentraedi vessels. Even so, the crew of the SDF-1 was exceedingly lucky that their opponents had orders to capture the vessel, rather than destroy it.

The SDF-1 served until 2014, when the ship was destroyed in a kamikaze attack by Khyron. Many of its systems were salvaged and used for the SDF-3. A nearly-complete sister ship, the SDF-2, was destroyed minutes before the SDF-1.

http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/viewmecha.php?id=6

@Jwolf

http://www.spike.com/video/robotech-vol-1/2698786

This one is hard to say since the technologies are so different, and i think it would be highly dependent upon the circumstances of the fight.

If the enterprise could use its warp speed to advantage then it can eventually sting the sdf-1 to death by darting in and out at a speed and distance that the sdf-1 cannot counter. The sdf-1′s fighters would probably not be of much use in a situation like that since the missiles carrying the reflex warheads would not be able to engage the enterprise unless the enterprise happened to run into them since they are so slow, and the rail-guns that most of them are equipped with are not likely to get through deflectors that are designed to keep small high speed debris from striking the hull while traveling at near light speed even at navigational levels, much less when they are raised to combat levels, and most of the fighters are not armed with very powerful energy weapons.

On the other hand the sdf-1 is armed with an impressive array of energy weapons which while not able to use the full ships power on each gun like the enterprise can with its phasers are still more than powerful enough to hurt a federation ship, and they have a number of them. The main gun may be useless since it propagates so slowly (like a romulan plasma torpedo) that the cruiser can dodge or it may be very effective if it is attracted to the warp field like other subspace weapons such as the son’a isolytic burst gun from insurrection.

Captain Kirks usual ship to ship knife fight style would get the enterprise killed very quickly because it is seriously outclassed by sdf-1 at close range and slow speeds. Standard federation combat doctrine (which you never see in the various tv series or movies but is written about in a number of places) of mobile medium to long range combat with darting closer range strikes (a technique called sword dancing) would give the advantage to the enterprise.

I would have to call this one a toss-up though for raw power sdf-1is the clear winner.

Enterprise is screwed beyond all measure.

“If they can get in for a rear shot and get out before the sdf-1 can turn to bring main weapons to bear often enough that would be the way they can sting it possibly sting it to death.”

The SDF-1 does have rear-facing converging beam cannons and anti-ship missile launchers; http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/macross/macross-cruiser-lineart.gif

And here’s the 2012 refit version; http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossdyrl/macross-dyrl/macross-dyrl-schematics.gif

“The photon torpedoes are ftl as long as the launching ship has warp and ship mounted phasers are shown in TOS to be ftl as well though paramount seems to consider them sublight in later technobabble they still show phasers catching up to and damaging ships moving away from the firing ship at ftl speeds so that is one of the notorious paramount continuity gaffs. It is possible that sdf-1 would not even be able to see the enterprise making its attack runs at warp 4 (which seems to be the maximum practical tactical warp speed in TOS), and the point defense disks would most likely not be able move to intercept them in time even if they could see them.”

I know photon torpedoes can be launched at warp by a vessel in warp thanks to their warp sustainer engines, but I’m not familiar with any incidents of them firing photon torpedoes whilst in warp at a sublight target.

I was also under the impression that phasers were relativistic in their propagation speed, not FTL….

Of course, I’m not particularly familiar with TOS. Though I’m not sure it even matters.

Doesn’t TNG and onward override TOS? I was under the impression that TOS was canon except for when it explicitly contradicts something from TNG onward, in which case, TNG would override it.

Did that even make any sense to anyone? Lord, I some need coffee.

“unless by chance their shields were phased just right to deflect the damage”

How does this phasing work? How could it possibly be phased “just right” to “deflect” super-dimension-energy, energy derived from a sub-universe the Federation has no knowledge of at all?

The Enterprise’s shields could dissipate the energy depending on how much power it can churn out of its warp core and divert to its shields, I suppose.

But completely deflect the energy by being “phased just right”? What does that even mean?

“Hey guys, is SDF-1 vs Pillar of autumn worth requesting? How about vs vs ISD?”

ISD would wreck the SDF-1 in very short order.

The Pillar of Autumn? Well, I’ve no doubt that its spinal mount would tear right through the SDF-1 (1.17 teratons?), but I have no idea if the SDF-1′s main gun would have enough oomph to do the same to the Pillar.

I believe highest end numbers for super-dimension-energy cannons/heavy converging energy cannons would place them at best into the single digit gigaton range (if we use DYRL? instead of SDFM).

But I’m not particularly adept at such calculations, so that could just be dismissed as hyperbole.

The relevant scene I’m thinking of starts at approximately 1:31:58 into the film, we see 9 shots hit Altira ( http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossdyrl/altira.htm ), proceeded by a very large fireball and then mushroom cloud.

I probably overestimated the firepower being thrown down onto Altira, so anyone better educated (which would practically be most everyone else here, barring certain individuals) could just take a whack at it and give a proper firepower calculation for said weapons.

Also, I’m really lazy and terrible at scaling.

“he PoA however did have an excort of 450 whereas the SDF-1 comes standard with 470.”

Where are you getting the 470 number from?

“Space planes: 120 x QF-3000E Ghost
Variable Mecha: 212 x VF-1 Valkyrie (on launch date February 7, 2009: 120 x VF-1A, 12 x VF-1D, 50 x VF-1J, 30 x VF-1S); 300+ VF-1 Super Valkyries (as of February 11, 2010).”

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/macross.htm

So that’s 332 fighter craft all together for launch date numbers and 420+ as of February 11, 2010.

The really annoying thing about cannon in star trek is that it is all independent of anything else. TOS is not overidden by TNG, when there is a conflict both are cannon at the same time and the anomaly is officially ignored. The ‘explanation’ for this is that none of the series are on precisely the same space time continuum due to the ‘temporal cold war’ though i personally do not see how it could affect the physics as well as the technology and society as it seems to do. I am more familliar with the TOS era stuff, including the movies (though they are also not necessarily the same as the original TOS and seem to be an uncomfortable mishmash of the two) so i tend to use examples from that more than TNG though my posts have been kind of mixed mode (i did try to avoid the worst of the mismatches except when pointing out how incredibly bad the continuity is though).

A good example of conflicting cannon is impulse speeds, in TOS Sulu or Spock would often call off speeds as either impulse or speed of light percentages interchangeably whereas in TNG full impulse is well below the speed of light.

There is no special relationship between a ship in warp and any other ship in warp unless they are in the same warp bubble (which means they have to be practically touching or else linked by tractor beam or other some other means that is ‘conductive’ as far as a warp field is concerned) so as long as you have a way of targeting something it does not matter if of one or both are in warp or not. Also you can be in warp without moving forward at all, there are tactical warp turns where the ship stays in place and snaps to face a different direction almost instantly and somehow helps reaction speed slightly (perhaps through some kind of reverse time dilation effect). Weapons have to travel the intervening distance in normal space unless they have some kind of warp component since unlike hyperspace, warp drives do not take the ship into another dimension, it just tricks the normal one. It has been described as ‘going nowhere fast’ because the warp drive does not add velocity at all. A ship that warps directly out of orbit at say warp 4 is still ‘moving’ at orbital speed, the space that it is in however is sliding itself at a rate that appears to be superlight speed. It is almost like a very short range fold that happens in very rapid short pulses (you can hear the pulse inside the ship, that is what makes all the engine hum and whine and vibration) but the ship never really completely leaves normal space so it is effectively solid the whole way unlike the fold where you do not travel the intervening space at all and the warped space is not flip-flopping in discrete packets, so the field has a certain amount of ‘slide’ to it that acts like inertia in a way. The warp field does it trick mainly through the time vector of space-time which is why a ship in warp can be thrown through time if the field is overloaded by very high mass or gravity fields.

The ftl photon torpedoes use the warp sustainer which is relatively straightforward, and supposedly there is a way to infuse some of the ‘warp energy’ into phaser beams to get the same effect, though that part seems bit shaky it does explain (in an unfortunately handwaveum way) how they can perform chase shots at ftl targets like they do occasionally. While there are a number of times in TOS (and for that matter in the other series as well i think and it is common with both weapons in the novels) where they have fired phasers while chasing a ship in warp to damage the engines and bring it to a halt there were not many times that photon torpedoes were used in TOS at all (it was well established that Kirk preferred phasers at ridiculously close range over torpedoes) so there are not many examples of their use just in the live TOS.

The shields are another piece of poorly defined technology. The effects are that they repel matter ‘using its own speed against it’ which is why a railgun round bounces while something slow like a shuttle can push through it (it sounds suspiciously like dune in that respect) unless it is swept out of the way first by the main navigational deflector dish which does not use the ‘speed against it’ trick and is more like a pressor beam than anything else and does not care about speed and is limited to a cone in front of the ship. Anything that gets past the dish beam crashes against the front skin shields which are the ones that get ‘raised’ to combat levels when the ship go to battle. Against energy it acts like a reflective sink somehow, reflecting (or possibly refracting) what it can, and imperfectly ‘absorbing’ what is not reflected with some kind of direct energy vs. energy effect that drains them. How well they can deflect any particular energy depends on how they are tuned. Most of the time they are on a kind of generic setting, but if you know exactly what you are being hit with you can somehow tune them to deflect it better at the expense of making them weaker against other forms. In TNG they measure it with ‘phase frequency’ and if you know what that ‘frequency’ is then you can tune your weapons to bypass most of the shields effect. A good example of the shield tuning is the sun-diver shuttle in one of the episodes, the special shield that allowed a small ship without a lot of power to expend to dive into a stars photosphere for research did not take a lot more power that the normal shield, but it was almost invulnerable to stellar radiation (and in theory at least almost useless to anything else). Also the dominion ships were tuned specifically against federation phasers and photon torpedoes and their polaron beam weapons were tuned to cut specifically through federation shields (in TOS tuning that fine would not be possible i think, and why the TNG shields did not adjust to negate the dominions trick is another question often asked without a satisfactory answer ).

I’m a total Trek fanboy, yet I have to give this to the Macross. The reason being that it’s a superior paradigm: Carrier > Battleship.

A battleship relies on a number of big gun emplacements, torpedo launchers and shielding to duke it out while expecting to take a pounding.

A carrier stays even further out of the fight and relies on its pilots to zip in and deliver their ordnance with pinpoint accuracy.

This is why battleships are being phased out of the world’s navies. There’s nothing they can do that a carrier’s planes can’t do better.

@overlord I’m trying to stick to contests where I know both combatants. I kind of stretched this rule by posting on Elric vs. Drizzt, but at least I know Drizzt by reputation. I know nothing about the PoA.