Woahh, yes! A comment! That means the weird error that stopped me from posting should be gone now!

Alright, having read the Eragon series and part of the LOTR trilogy, it seems that these two contestants utilizes numerous similar abilities and skills.

Both uses fear as their main weapon.
They can both wield black/dark magic effectively.
Both are skilled in weapons.

However, if someone with more in-depth knowledge could post strengths/feats, it would help alot!

Personally, I think Durza might lose this as he constantly underestimates his opponents. Also, he really likes to toy with his enemy until he ‘goes in for the kill’.

I think your underestimating the shade sapper,
while I’m undecided about the victor Durza can use a form of teleportation when he should die, eg when he was shot in the head by an arrow he disappeared in smoke then came back a few minutes later, I’m pretty sure it was of his own will too.

also he’s not technically a man so he can kill them right?
as I said I’m undecided.
oh and my posts didn’t show up yesterday but I take it that it is fixed now?

oh ok thanks,

blah blah blah. Is this comment long enough yet?

i think durza can as he is not a man, but a shade

Sorry for the re-post, just wanted to get credit for the post for my collection of meaningless stars…..

Finally, it seems that the site is working again. I admit, I am not a great person with technology, so could someone enlighten me what the problem was yesterday?

Anyway, who ever requested this match, I congratulate you. Personally, I am leaning towards Durza (which is no argument, I know) out of favoritism. I know the Nazgul are wraiths, but was their physical abilities (while wearing armor), above that of a man? I guess, what I am trying to ask, did they have superior speed/strength/reaction time, compared to that of a man? Thanks to all who answer the question of a mad man.

- the pondering fool

The comment table in the database became corrupt so that had to be restored. Good times. – Admin

“The comment table in the database became corrupt so that had to be restored. Good times. – Admin”

Oh, that probably wasn’t fun. Thanks for actually replying mate (another reason I like this site so much.)

“ok, i thought we were talking about the witch king, we need 2 decide which 1 we are talking about to know who will win”

I agree. Is this going to be the Witch King vs. Durza, or a regular Nazgul vs. Durza? I don’t think it changes the battle as much. Doesn’t the Witch King differ from the Nazgul, because of the prophecy Glorfindel made about him in the 2nd age? Besides that, isn’t he stuck between death and life just like the others?

- the pondering fool

Thanks for the answer, AHEM. However, that still leaves the question fairly open. Can the shade be categorized as a magical construct or an undead?

“Thanks for the answer, AHEM. However, that still leaves the question fairly open. Can the shade be categorized as a magical construct or an undead?”

Well, the physical host never died per say, before the spirits took hold of his body? A possessed mortal? It is through sorcery (I believe, correct me if I am wrong), that a Shade is able to come into being (by overpowering the sorcerer and taking over his/her body). I would lean towards magical/possessed being…..

- the pondering fool

@Sapper

My good friend, I fear you are breaking the no limits fallacy rule mate.

“No Limit Fallacies
The no limits fallacy is the illogical idea that a poorly understood phenomena can be extrapolated to infinity or assumed to not have any maximum value or threshold.

For a gross example, observing that a shield can easily withstand an attack from a particular weapon, one might illogically conclude that the shield could withstand fire from an unlimited number of those weapons at the same time, or that it could withstand fire from a similar weapon that was much more powerful.

For example, Darkseid has stated that no can stand up to his Omega Beams, which he emits from his eyes, but when in actuality, Superman, and other certain characters have withstood his OE, which proves his statement to be false.

Or that only those of the Uchiha clan who have the ability to use the Mangekyo Sharingan can stop Itachi, or any other high class Sharingan user.”

(Credit to Matapiojo [I believe?] or Admin)

Sure, the Witch King (and the other Wraiths) could only be harmed by weapons designed in “their” universe. But that does not mean, weapons not designed to solely to defeat Lord of the Rings’s Wraiths, will not work on them. Sure, Durza still needs a pretty damn powerful weapon to work on a Wraith, but it is still possible for him to harm the wraith.

- the pondering fool

“and the shade need only be stabbed in the heart?

Witch king for the win”

Not that I wholly agree with his take on the exclusivity of the weapons needed to harm a Nazgul, but I agree with his take on the outcome. Regardless of No-Limit elements being taken into account, the ring wraiths seem to be a lot more resilient than the shades if all it takes to eliminate one is a heart-strike. The Witch King is quite a proficient combatant that we have seen possessing numerous magical counters and wards in addition to his martial skills.

I think the Witch King takes it for sure.

any nazgul would kick durza’s A$$.

“I know where you got this quote and its untrue… there are several instances where the nazgul influence the”seen” world despite being completely invisible and not ‘disguised’ and able to reap havoc on the Numenor….”

That complicates things, as it indicates that there is a dispute, even outside this match, as to the extent of the Nazgul’s powers.

hmm… I think i just wrapped up the last possibility of defeat for the Witch King…. say Durza has a weapon that can harm the nazgul…. and raises it to kill him…

Then…

“On October 20, the five Nazgul were rejoined by the other four. They pursued Frodo to the Ford of Bruinen. Glorfindel’s horse Asfaloth bore Frodo across the river, but Frodo felt compelled to stop. The Nazgul commanded him to give up the Ring, but Frodo refused, saying, “By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!” (FotR, p. 226-7) The Witch-king advanced into the river and raised his hand. Frodo’s sword broke and he could not speak.”

just change Frodo to Durza….

The Witchking of Angmar FTW

“If there is no such event on the pages of the books, then it could be argued that the shattering spell/effect couldn’t work on magical weapons such as “Wraith-slayers”.
”

except the weapon was a wraith slayer…
(Paraphrased:)
“The Witch-king advanced on Frodo with a sword and a Morgul-knife. Frodo slashed the Witch-king’s robe with his sword and invoked the name of Elbereth, one of the Valar, and the Witch-king cried out at the sound of her name. He stabbed Frodo in the shoulder with his Morgul-knife and a sliver of the blade broke off in Frodo’s shoulder and began working its way to his heart. Although the sliver was later removed, the wound continued to trouble Frodo for as long as he remained in Middle-earth.”

The Witch-king also recognized that Frodo’s sword from the Barrow-downs had been made by the Dundedain for the war against Angmar. He knew that the blow that had narrowly missed him would have been deadly to him.

Well, like I said in the beginning(again), I never really thought that Durza could best the Lord of the Nazgul. I think him against a regular Nazgul would be a much more fair fight, but not the Witch King.

I know it’s a common exaggeration to say “no man can kill me” but does Durza count as a man? because while Eowyn can kill Nazugul, Eowyn does not necessarily have a higher killing effectiveness than a man.
Grrr… MAGIC!
Someone answer?

Ouch.

That’s harsh.

Not undeserving, but still harsh.

“But then, I consider debating whether the opponent is a man or not when fighting the Witch King to be inconsequential, since the Witch King isn’t really “immune” in any special way to men. The prophecy, given inside the LotR universe, simply states that death by a man is not what will happen in his history in Middle-Earth.”

or

Glorfindel
“Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall”
The Lord of the Rings
Appendix A I (iv), Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion

“Glorfindel
‘Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall’
The Lord of the Rings
Appendix A I (iv), Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion”

Not the key phrase: “Not by the hand of man WILL he fall,” not “not by the hand of man CAN he fall.”

“1. the movies, while very nice and all(especially when talking in graphics) hardly represent the books…”

When did I mention something from the movies that wasn’t in the books and use that as a basis for an argument? I don’t recall doing so.

“2. the books pretty much spawned all fantasy writing then on out… so a little respect is order, especially if you like said genre”

I am well aware of the influence that the Lord of the Rings has had on the fantasy genre and on fiction in general, as any contemporary reader of fantasy is; in fact, I personally consider it one of the best and most influential series in the entire genre.

I really don’t understand where you’re coming from; are you explaining why you like LotR so much, or are you insinuating that I’m somehow “disrespecting” Tolkien’s work because I’m not automatically throwing my support to the character from LotR?

Really, I’m fine with it if you really like/respect LotR, I do too, I just don’t think it should get in the way of these debates. This is Durza vs. Nazgul, after all, not the Inheritance Cycle vs. Lord of the Rings as literature.

Considering to kill a Shade all that’s needed is to stab their heart, I think the Naz’gul can accomplish this.

“I was talking about the halo fanboy… slow your roll ahem…”

The Halo fanboy? Who? I haven’t noticed anyone mention Halo so far. I apologize if I mistook a comment directed at someone else as something meant for myself, but it was kind of confusing, with my name at the beginning of your post . . .

“UNIVERSE FIGHT!!!

Get on it, Admin.”

Hmm, Alagaesia against Arda. Come to think of it, that would make a pretty epic fantasy battle. I think I’ll request that one too.

” but did they ever fight with swords for more than a few seconds?”

I think so… but i cant be sure… since they are multi THOUSAND years old. and were the greatest warriors of the second age… but i doubt they used swords for longer than a second…

/facepalm

” but did they ever fight with swords for more than a few seconds?”

“I think so… but i cant be sure… since they are multi THOUSAND years old. and were the greatest warriors of the second age… but i doubt they used swords for longer than a second…”

What I meant by that post, Sapper 007, is do we have a recorded example by Tolkien of the Witch King fighting a very skilled opponent, someone like Aragon, Gandalf, or Elrond (or even someone lke Faramir or or Eomer) so that we can compare his skills to Durza’s to see if he has what it takes to beat him and stab him in the heart?

“Yes… the witch king lead the war of Angmar against the Numenorians of old… and eradicated them… leaving small pockets of their race… and he beat ass on aragorn on weather top… just off the top of my head…”

Weathertop didn’t really end very well for the Nazgul, as they failed to capture Frodo, were resisted, and fled. But then, wasn’t the Witch King there just an avatar or weaker version of him, not at full power?

“Yeah, i meant King Arveleg I but wrote Aragorn… and several battles happened on weathertop… but yeah… long story short… witchking beats up Aragorn, stabs frodo… reconizes the the blades of the westernesse and decides its better to not hang around… and since frodo was supposed to become a wraith soon… under his command… its best to lose nothing and leave…”

Wait a minute…you are making Weathertop sound like a victory for the Witch King. Its been ten years since I read the books, so I won’t claim to be an expert on Nazgul, but from what I remember, they were after the ring, not Frodo, and left Weathertop kind of Ringless… Yes, Frodo was probably going to become a Wraith, but Aragon was protecting him, and they were pretty darn close to Rivendell and elves who could heal him. I know you really like the Witch King sapper007, but even he had some losses to go along with his many victories (was he present when Dol Guldur was destroyed?)

“the witch king lead the war of Angmar against the Numenorians of old… and eradicated them… leaving small pockets of their race…”
And yes, he did obliberate Arnor, but not without a gigantic army behind him…

*Sigh* You can always rely on a LotR character to complicate a debate with confusing information about powers and feats. . .

actually tolkien is pretty clear through his notes that Glorfindel from the first age is the same person as Glorfindel from the third…

and I will not and cannot decide that… and thats a little one sided… nazgul are “supposedly” very easy to kill once cut with a blade of the westernesse… so… if that nerf bat is swung, then i would like to see “no magic” nerfing the shade… kind of unfair…

The witch king on some occasions has shattered weapons… Frodo had a blade
of the westernesse at the Ford and had it shattered and gandalf the white had his
staff shattered at minas tirith, so its a moot point to give the shade a
weapon that could kill him anyways…
but thats the fun of these debates, learn more about characters you didnt know about

“However, if you would still argure against it, this might very well turn into a standstill. Each can neutralize many of the other’s powers, and neither is human, neither has to eat or even gets tired. Shades are experts in bladework, and so are Nazgul, so they would probably be dueling until the end of time, or Rand al’Thor shows up and blasts them both with balefire…”

That seems a pretty likely scenario. It will most likely go on for a long while, until either the Nazgul figures out to stab Durza in the heart and gets past his deadly swordsmanship(shattering his sword might help), or Durza devises some use of magic that can permanently hurt the Nazgul.

Since it is the Witch King, the greatest of all Nazgul, that we’re talking about, I’m leaning towards him. I’d be more inclined for a stalemate or even a victory for Durza against one of the others, but the Witch King is one of the most formidable beings from LotR and could probably best Durza just on power, even without his incredible durability brought into play.

I just remembered another ability that might help Durza.

Inheritance mages can turn invisible if they want. This might help to cancel out any stealth advantage the Witch King might take using his Wraith nature, and if he is limited to having to wear armor and thus be visible, it could give Durza an edge that would prolong this fight.

“Hey…what about the twelve instant death spells from the Inheritance Cycle Universe? Ringwraiths are not exactly alive, but not exactly dead either, so they should still be affected. There must be some reason Durza never used it on Eragon, but I cannot think of it. Whatever the reason, the Ringwraiths probably could not duplicate it. Think of it…The Witch King of Angmar dead because of a single word….”

It’s an elegant thought, but I don’t think the twelve words of death would be very effective against a wraith. According to Oromis, the premise of the death words is to cause infinitesimal damage to vital organs, such as arteries in the heart or brain or the severing of essential nerves, that cause the target’s body to fail. While they are very efficient in dispatching organic opponents with little energy loss for the spellcaster, a wraith probably wouldn’t have any noticeable organs to strike. Also, since the death words are very small and precise uses of magic, they are quite easy to block, which is why they are pretty much useless against more powerful spellcasters such as Eragon; wards can deflect them with no problem. Against an enemy as resistant as the Witch King, they would likely be ineffective.

“Well since this is the Witch King who is nearly invincible and resistant to magic I have to go with him. Isn’t Durza like the “Inheritance” equivalent of Saruman or something?”

Come to think of it . . . yeah, Durza is kind of similar to Saruman, in function at least. The equivalent of the Witch King would probably be Murtagh Morzansson.

“Enough… The Nazgul for the win….”

Yeah since this is the Witch King and the strongest of the Nazgul the victory should go to him. Factpile Award for the Lord of the Nazgul.

good both sides agree…

Witch King FTW…

“Factpile Award for the Lord of the Nazgul.”

Alright. I’ve tried to argue a few points for the Shade, and I still argue he could beat a regular Nazgul and tie with Khamul, but against the Witch King of Angmar he will probably meet his demise. I’ll fourth the Factpile Award for the Witch King.

“or Rand al’Thor shows up and blasts them both with balefire…”

ROFL wow… I was actually reading all the posts and thinking of posting that exact same comment. Yea, victory goes to Rand al’Thor… even though this duel has absolutely nothing at all to do with him.

YAY FOR NAZGUL!!! peanut butter jelly time! /dances around/