Saevam iram, iram et dolorem
Saevam iram, iram et dolorem

Sephiroth, Sephiroth

Wrong case of those nouns!!! That’s all the accusative.

That’s the Advent Children version isn’t it? Shame, it’s not even proper latin.

Those lines are basically a series of Direct Objects with no subjects :/
OWA from FF7 is better Latin.

(just because it is a “dead” language doesn’t mean we as a culture should abuse it!)

As for this match, a large component might be if Dante is able to royal block Sephiroth. Not in the sense that is a royal block capable of blocking Sephiroth’s attacks, but if Dante has the skill and speed to do it.

I think Dante has the speed and skill to be able to kill Sephiroth. They both have close to the same reaction time, and Dante has stated “lightning fast” movements with Alastor, so a speed blitz shouldn’t be possible by either side to a great degree.

However I think Sephiroth’s spells would make up the differance. Supernova (not actually a system buster) would hurt Dante a great deal since I doubt he could dodge it. Other Max HP fractional attacks would be greatly effective against Dante, however those won’t kill him. Getting that last hit in would be difficult but possible. Dante’s numerous items would prolong his life to the point that he might be able to kill Sephiroth though.

This is actually a very even match because Sephiroth doesn’t have insane materia set-ups like Cloud and his crew does.

Sephiroth wins this. He’s using a weapon that makes Virgils look damn near concealable in comparison, and he’s still capable of going toe to toe with anyone and anything the final fantasy universe can throw at him, barring cloud, and thats only because of PIS.

Play Crisis Core, complete the game, then tell me how Dante could win this. Sephiroth is too fast, and unless we’re in an arena that has those much lovable time-stopping statues, dante has nothing that can match that speed.

…I#’ll take the only coherant part of that post on.

Half Demon is levelled off by Half “Ancient”. Tie there really.

Now I wonder if Nero would stand a chance if he had as much skill as Dante… Plus the devilbringer, you can’t forget that.

I would go with Sephiroth mostly because I have seen him in action in Advent Children and Crisis Core, but he would still have a hell of a time fighting him.

^ Thats not what she said.

Oooh, an excuse to find video’s of Sephiroth Kicking copious ass.

Before I do, you’re right, i didn’t get that far into DMC4. Freakin burrowing lizard beasts with the whip head were just far too annoying for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ZaSipHuO4 – action starts 50 secs in. note that Sephiroths sword isn’t even slowed by carving through that cannon, and that at only one point does his facial expression change from “bored now”

Now, you do make a fair point, slowing down time could help massively. I’m still not convinced it’ll be enough to stop sephiroth. It doesn’t seem to extend to stopping time, and sephy is a nippy little swine at the worst of times.

@Space Marine
There is a single incarnation of Dante. He keeps all of his weapons. Quicksilver, Gunslinger, Doppleganger, Sword Master, Trickster, Royal Guard are the fighting styles he keeps. I left out Dark Slayer as he leaves Yamato with Nero. He keeps all weapons from his adventures.

@Jwlynas
Thank you for putting that up. It is my single fav vid in Crisis Core (In fact I even put it on my PS3. I’ve watched it so much that I have completely memorized it. But, if you have noticed, of course I know that it was temporary and that he is not at his full power, Genesis (and this is just Genesis) actually has an advantage starting at 1:56. He even lets out a grunt at this point. Sephiroth soon turns this around when Genesis leaves an opening. This shows that a repeated attack could render Sephiroth unable to do anything. Sephiroth can only keep up for so long. This may not sound like something important, but it is an important factor in a fight like this. Especially considering Dante’s speed and strength is far above Genesis without the time slowing and/or stop.

Of course, it is quite expected for Sephiroth to be able to do feats like slicing through the Sister Ray with ease. It shows his immense strength by having the ability to wield the masumane, especially at the speed he does, but it isn’t quite Dante’s strength. One good example of this was after Nero defeats Sanctus in DMC4, Dante blocks a punch from the Savior (This link should workshow it’s size: http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/devilmaycry/images/thumb/c/c1/Silvergigas0.jpg/463px-) on impact, it deactivates. With it’s fist on his sword still, he effortlessly pushes it a good distance into the air so that he could walk away.

As far as reaction speed goes, Sephiroth may possibly be able to block bullets (I don’t remember a scene that shows it tho). Im going to assume he can do it fairly well, but he wouldn’t be able to block them from all sides. Dante, using his Trickster style (and this is actually possible in gameplay by a skilled player), can immediately move all around his opponents, firing Ebony and Ivory (If you haven’t seen how fast they fire in-game alone, here’s a link, it has a display of the styles in-game:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6fCKhX4HQ0).

As is brought up often, Royal Block would be too much for Sephiroth to handle in close range as it counters an attack easily while adding a significant amount of energy to the Royal meter. With this, he can also become the invulnerable Dreadnaught.

There is also the matter of various weapons from DMC4 alone. (here are displays: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3k8xWZ4RmE) Pandora alone could put the hurt on Sephiroth. Watch carefully at 4:40. You’ll notice that the Bael’s barely moved at all in the air before Pandora went through all of them, and Dante caught it like it was nothing. This alone shows the speed of the weapon. Then you have OMEN. This would do serious damage to everyone’s favorite SOLDIER. There is also the opening scene in DMC3 (link. warning, badass alert:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVkRlk6g7oM). He acts as if he weren’t touched. This is the weakest Dante ever is in the games.

I hope this is enough information for now. Thanks for your time.

@ Eric7777

Show me proof, any actual evidence that can accurately and canonically back up what you are saying as far as the materia goes. How does he not need it when it has never been said that he doesn’t and he has never shown this trait?

Dante has survived far more and worse than being hit by meteors and if it came down to it, Dante could dodge them. Dante is not like any opponent that Sephiroth has come up against. Just about every move Sephiroth makes can be dodged as well as countered by Dante. Dante’s speed and strength as well as natural abilities are greater than Sephiroth’s. His portable arsenal of weapons also provides a significant advantage. Dante is overall too powerful to fall to Sephiroth.

He’s been constantly stabbed in the heart, shot in the heart, shot in the head, crushed, beaten, shot, burned, froze, etc and he acted like it was nothing. He gets up and does a cocky smile/laugh. He could also dodge it with a combination of his time slow/ stop and teleportation. Need I go on?

Sephiroth doesn’t have stop. He has only attack magic. Dante is far faster, being able to dance circles around the likes of Sephiroth and having the ability to move faster than the naked eye could see. He regenerates naturally, he has three was to become invulnerable, two ways to stop time whenever, an arsenal of weapons with various effects, His strength is far greater than Sephiroth, and this is without the use of Devil Trigger. His endurance is also greater than Sephiroth.

Now my question is Battra Boy, did you read what was above, or could you not grasp it because I think it’s pretty clear.

Bringing Dante to his weakest state would only make him stronger as he can then turn into his Final Devil Trigger, making him invulnerable. Oh, and don’t say Sephiroth could finish him before he could, cuz we all know that’s BS. DT has an instant effect and interrupts any attack. All this time he is regenerating while whooping up on Sephiroth. That is a great plan!!!

Now let me ask, what is to stop Dante from teleporting all around Sephiroth while constantly assaulting him? It has been shown that while Sephiroth on the defensive, it is hard for him to recover. This is against fairly weak opponents such as Genesis too. Dante’s speed and strength would make this far easier. Oh and make sure not to forget Royal Block. Never forget about Royal Block.

Any questions?

Play Final Fantasy 7, watch Advent Children… and then dare compare a single
Character like Dante to him, Dante dies repeatedly in the game if you can’t play it well,
hehe…right? Dane is no match for Seph, if you disagree you need to play the game
again and watch the movie again

@Me

Play DMC, play it again, play it a third time, heck even play it a fourth. Then just maybe, you’ll realize how impressive even in-game combat is.

You’re talking to someone who has played FF7 multiple times and likes AC better than any other movie. Just your comment alone sounds ridiculous by saying Dante dies if you can’t play well as if it’s a trait special to him. Just to point something out… the same holds true to any character. Now children, remember today’s lesson and make sure to do your homework. Have a nice day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgSuIIesIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UurJkiwZEZI&feature=related

Are we done saying that Dante is slow yet?

Dante’s defenses, mostly Royal Block, are very impressive. Thus far he has yet to come against an attack that could peirce his Royal Block. Sephiroth’s attacks, while powerful, are fairly compareable to Dante’s and his enemies’ own attacks.

Sephiroth has ice attacks; cool, Dante can (as absurd as it sounds) can easily block Below Absolute Zero temperature ice attacks.
Sephiroth has fire attacks; neat, Dante can casually strol in Hellfire without even using Royal Block.
Sephiroth has his reduce to 1 HP attack; spiffy, Dante instantly gains access to his Desperate Devil Trigger and becomes invulnerable, and has his healing and damage and defensive capabilities increased several fold over his already impressively abilities.
Sephiroth has Metearo… which takes three days to get here. (non-factor)
Sephiroth has teleportation; so does Dante
Sephiroth has speed; so does Dante
Sephiroth can slice through stuff from afar; so can Dante AND he can block interdimensional slices.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA3CTXuGyP8&feature=related
Sephiroth can jump high; so can Dante
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Sk_HEr0kc&feature=related
Note that that player isn’t particularly good. The cutscenes are what are important here.
Sephiroth can fly; so can Dante in every game except DMC4. In DMC1 he could fly at “lightning speeds”.
Sephiroth can injure a world; Dante can seal off a dimension. Perspective is something isn’t it?
Sephiroth’s sword work is fast; Dante can stab 1,000,000 times in a few seconds when he is at his SLOWEST, and Dante has multiple, stackable, abilities to increase his base speed and even that has grown from DMC3 when he was still able to pull this off.
Sephiroth is a bullet timer; Dante is a bullet timer. And this is before Dante uses any of this his various skills and items to increase his base speed or influnce the flow of time.
Oh and Dante would be able to absorb energy from Sephiroth’s projectile attacks with his Ultimate move which converts energy into life. Dante has a healing method aside from items. And since this is current incarnation that means Sephiroth doesn’t actually have any magic aside from his connetion to the lifestream which wouldn’t be in this battleground.

Dante matches Sephiroth in some cases and surpasses him in others. Also Dante just has more variables to him because he uses magic, guns, swords, guitars, anti-tank rifles, missile launchers, grenade launchers, and gauntlets instead of just a sword like Sephiroth does.

I’ve said it before in the Cloud & Link vs Dante & Kratos match: when you go against an FF7 character aren’t actually fighting the character. You are fighting the materia set up.
Sephiroth doesn’t have a materia set up and that makes him, ironically, one of the weakest characters from FF7 to put up in a debate. If this match was Dante vs any of Cloud’s crew then Dante would lose, but it isn’t so he won’t; Materia set ups are just that damn powerful.

OriginalA is right. Sephiroth is the most powerful character of FF7 for sure, but the materia makes weaker characters stronger than Sephiroth. I think you can comprehend that. Sephiroth doesn’t have the necessary materia that would defeat Dante.

Ok how can I sum this up… Dante’s capabilities are greater than Sephiroth’s. Sephiroth is very fast, but Dante is faster overall.
Sephiroth is strong, but Dante is stronger. Dante barely punched a huge demon gate and it shattered. He didn’t need to cut it (although he cut one from a looonnnng distance. He easily threw the savior.

That pretty much sums up anything that could possibly be unclear… Everything else is simple enough. You truly have been dumbing down Dante to extremes. We’ve clearly considered each characters acts, and Dante’s are overall greater extremes. Sephiroth is powerful, but without the right materia, he can’t beat Dante.

Ok…let’s see how I can dumb this down even more… I figured that it would be clear enough to anyone who would possibly venture on this site…

For one, the abilities that materia gives is user are things Sephiroth lacks… so outside of FF7 ironically thanks to these abilities, Cloud can beat opponents that Sephiroth can’t… I don’t know how that can’t be clear but just in case… let’s use an example on someone else… An example could be Kratos. While I say Sephiroth might easily win this, lets go with the scenario that Kratos is winning. Sephiroth can’t use the ability that would allow an easy win for Cloud. This is Stop. Stop would allow the overall weaker character (Cloud) to beat someone the stronger character (Sephiroth) can’t. I hope you can understand that because I don’t think there is any way in the English language to make it simpler…

My bad, I got the name wrong. Instead of Demon gate, it is hell gate. They are basically these huge portals (you can see in one of the Youtube links in my second comment) that connect the human would to the demon world. Dante would just show off his new weapon (as usual), easily annihalating these things. The Savior (I too, put a link above for him, this is showing that you did not read previous comments… -.-) is shown right here: http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/File:Silvergigas0.jpg. Keep in mind Dante is smaller than even the blue crystals on this things body, yet he easily tosses it aside after blocking its punch. It is obvious that Sephiroth is strong to be able to swing such a sword at the speed he does as well as cut through solid objects, but Dante has feats that just show off part of his strength that are greater than Sephiroth’s physical strength. Just a couple are mentioned above.

The movement speed of the two is very debatable as both show great movement speed throughout, (im talking about transportation). Dante’s attack speed is greater than Sephiroth’s though, Sephiroth’s speed in attacks is certainly impressive, but have never seen him do 1,000,000 stabs in a couple os seconds. Also an impressive feat that Dante has shown (and I have had to constantly mention) is when goes to put Yamato through the Savior to give it to Nero. To dodge an attack from the Savior he jumps away from where he stabbed the sword and while moving in midair, he fires eight shots that hit the exacts same spot, stacking up and pushing Yamato through.

A good display of power??? Let’s see out of the many… ah here’s one of the best. Abigail was a demon whose power rivaled even the demon king. (This is in the anime). At this point, Dante still isn’t at his fullest power so far in the series. Dante is first stabbed to a cross by his sword. Coming back to the human world, he acts as if it was nothing. He just lets Abigail impale him multiple times, laughs, calls Rebellion (his sword) and in merely one attack, he defeats Abigail. He has also defeated Mundus in the first game (the Demon King). He also defeated Argosax (who, although demon, was basically a god). If there needs to be anything else added let me know, but I think that’s all that needs to be said as far as power display goes, cuz I can keep em coming if you need.

I think that I simplified things enough for you to understand everything we’re saying. Please do not take that as an insult though. But please try to think about what I put before you respond. I’m slow at typing and I hate retyping things…

“Oh you did not respond to Seph destroying planets and suns with his Super nova.”

Super Nova is purely theatrics. If it was litteral then he would only be able to do it once, the sun would actually be destroyed instead of showing up as soon as Cloud and Crew left the creater, and it would actually be able to kill someone. The Super Nova attack, as preformed by Sephiroth, is ONLY capable of reducing a group of targets’ life by 3/4th of their current HPs and that is ALL it is capable of. It doesn’t destroy planets. It doesn’t destroy a star. It doesn’t destroy a system. and it doesn’t kill ANYONE.

“Seph also controls the lifestream now, which are all the souls of everyone or thing that has ever died or is yet to live.”

No he doesn’t. He has never been able to do that. He poisoned it for a little while, and even then it was only a small amount, and even then all that that did was weaken those poisoned people and made them capable of becoming new Sephiroths. He never once was able to directly control it; only influence it minorly.

“Seph can slice bullets in mid air, also great speed, I can’t comment on Dante’s 1,000,000.00 stabs in say, 3 seconds… hmmm.”

Yeah, woow, “great speed”. How undescriptive. Bullet speed isn’t even all that great at this point either as Dante was a bullet timer in DMC3 before he got his speed boosts from anything. With the Alastor Devil Arm Dante is capable of matching Lightning speed, which is about 72 miles per second. Even without that he is still capable of reacting to Lightning fast enough to dodge it via teleportation or block it with Royal Block. That puts Dante’s speed significantly higher than anything Sephiroth has been shown capable of. Also Sephiroth’s main weakness is from being blitzed as seen when Cloud ROFLStomps him with Omnislash in FF7, and again with Omnislash V5 in FF7:AC (and AC Complete).

Dante’s speed advantage is more than enough to deal with Sephiroth, and this is before Devil Trigger, which increases Dante’s speed by about 0.5, and before QuickSilver which increases Dante’s speed by about 2.0, and before Chrono Heart which reduces time speed by 0.5, and before Bangle of Time which stops time completely.

So even without the time stop, Dante should be able to reach:
72 + (72 x 0.5) x 2 / 0.5 = 432 Miles per second or Mach 2043. Dante is a speed demon, haha, litterally.

Holy crap! Dante can theoretically reach 1/500th of the speed of light!

Dante can also withstand hellfire, which is said to burn significantly hotter than a volcano. Volcano’s can burn at least as hot as 2,200 degrees F.

I’ve mentioned the fact that he can survive below 0 K ice attacks.

By the way, the big bad of the first DMC game was an interdimensional reality warper / actual immortal. … Dante beat him with a sealing spell that had enough power to prevent him from touching the human world for another 2000 years.

Dante is a POWER HOUSE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rz2ivHHCug

By moving his hand an INCH he completely demolished a solid stone monolith that stood several stories tall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyPunrjd1kU&feature=related

Dante tosses the Savior several feet so he can walk away from underneath its hand. Several 100 tons of solid stone at the very least.

So speed and strength both go to Dante.

Agility is at best a draw for Sephiroth; at worst Dante takes that too because his teleportation is faster as Sephiroth’s teleport takes a second for him to become able to move again. Aside from teleportation, Dante’s movements are far more agile as he constantly flips, twirls, twists, slides, revolves, and leaps with the upmost of ease. Contrasts Sephiroth who is mostly straight forward and cannot quickly change his flight path after entering flight. (Sephiroth can swoop and bank, but Dante can preform instant 180s in air without loss of speed).

So agility either is a tie or goes to Dante.

Dante’s Royal Block makes the vast majority of any magic that Sephiroth MIGHT be able to use useless anyways becuase it has been shown to block similar attacks that have a much higher power. Additionally since Royal Block is instant instead of passive it cannot be debuffed so any attempt made by Sephiroth to null Royal Block is just wasting time.

So endurance goes to Dante too.

You know I’m begining to think that not even a well developed Materia set up would allow someone to direclty defeat Dante without a cheap trick like infinite Shield, Death, and counter-Omnislash.

Anyways there you go. Dante is faster, stronger, more enduring, and more agile. He probably thinks faster too since he commonly causes things to richocett off of random objects and hits his targets with perfect accuracy while doing this.

As seen at 3:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGv5w3kCVHc

And 0:17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV-Z19chIJQ

And when he uses the Gunslinger attacks for Spiral, which includes shooting a bullet with another bullet so that they both bounces off of the walls into the target that the first bullet was flying straight towards already. And yes that does break logic as the second bullet would have to travel faster than the first despite that it is fired from the same gun; Dante can do weird things like that with his guns.

So his thinking speed is probably better too. At least in the way that he is able to understand complex geometry in an instant and in a constantly changing environment. And he has the percise control to accuratly pull off these shots with extreme ease.

The ONLY way Sephiroth would be able to stand against something like this is if he is simply immune to it all. Unfortuantly since Cloud’s regular old sword does its job of beating things to death pretty well when used against Sephiroth that means that Sephiroth isn’t going to be able to take advantage of the “Ganondorf Defense” (awesome match in my opinion. I loved seeing that silver haired momma’s boy taken down a peg by a true villian).

First of all the burden of proof is on you at this point. I’ve shown, I’ve stated, I’ve backed up my points and you have disregarded them with supposition, conjecture, and out right ignorance. Since I’m such a nice guy I will still take the burden from you just to prove how stupid you are being.

“(Super Nova is purely theatrics. …. and it would actually be able to kill someone)”

You didn’t quote that correctly. I said it can NOT kill.

“You have no evidencial grounds to back up the first part of your statement. Your reasoning is irrelevant and besides the point, it remains that the destruction could be from an alternate universe such as possibly where the summon creatures come from. Thats just a possibility. You have no grounds to say the planets destroyed isn’t a reality in the game. Concerning the killing, also irrelavent. The fact remains that as is, Sephiroth can destroy planets with a single action. This an act of power far beyond anything ive seen Dante do. ”

I’m obviously arguing against a praragon of ignorance.

FACT: The Super Nova Attack CANNOT KILL. This is seen, demonstrated, and observed in the FF7 game every time Sephiroth uses the attack. Additionally Super Nova obliterates the same planets and star each time, yet these same, already destroyed, planets are destroyed again when the spell is used again.

And when the sun is shown to go super nova it is shown to expand from where it is (that is to say in the center of the same solar system that the unnamed planet [assumed Earth as all the other planets are named exactly like our own planets except the unnamed planet] orbits in which means that it is the sun that the planet uses to sustain itself with. Since this is destroyed, multiple times, and yet remains after Sephiroth is defeated that means that Sephiroth never once destroyed it in the first place. This means that the Super Nova attack is theatrics and nothing more.

Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWcFUQ0THJ0&feature=related

That also is Sephiroth’s supernova attack and it still doesn’t kill anybody.

It is a gravity based attack that only does a fraction of current HP damage to a group of targets. THAT IS IT! It’s litteral programed nature is something similar to:
Check Current HP of Target1, Target2, Target3;
Return Current HP of Target1 == 15/16 Current HP of Target1
Return Current HP of Target2 == 15/16 Current HP of Target2
Return Current HP of Target3 == 15/16 Current HP of Target3

This means that if a Target has 9999 HP the attack will do 9375 damage, and if the Target has 16 HP the attack will do 15 damage, and if the Target has 2 HP the attack will do 1 HP, and if the Target has 1 HP the attack will do 0 damage (as the battle mechanics cause damage dealt to round down to the nearest whole number).

By the very mechanics of the attack, it will ALWAYS do a FRACTION of the CURRENT HP, and thus can NEVER reduce a target’s HP to zero and thus killing them. Characters will ALWAYS SURVIVE this attack because of the very nature of the attack. This is shown, repeatedly, in the game and thus is above reproach regardless of your arguments

(Yeah, woow, “great speed”. How undescriptive. Bullet speed isn’t even all that great at this point either as Dante was a bullet timer in DMC3 before he got his speed boosts from anything. With the Alastor Devil Arm Dante is capable of matching Lightning speed, which is about 72 miles per second. Even without that he is still capable of reacting to Lightning fast enough to dodge it via teleportation or block it with Royal Block. That puts Dante’s speed significantly higher than anything Sephiroth has been shown capable of. Also Sephiroth’s main weakness is from being blitzed as seen when Cloud ROFLStomps him with Omnislash in FF7, and again with Omnislash V5 in FF7:AC (and AC Complete).)

“Its quite descriptive, bullets can fly at a reasonably assumable speed so his ability to meet them is also reasonably judgeable. Dante may be faster, I never denied this.”

You miss the point that even at Dante’s slowest speed he is able to match the description of “bullet speed”.

(Dante’s speed advantage is more than enough to deal with Sephiroth)

“Completely unevidence statement by yourself here.”

Followed by a mathimatical equation that proves that Dante can reach 1/500th of C. Yep, I have no proof what so ever to back that claim up. /sarcasm.

(So even without the time stop, Dante should be able to reach:
72 + (72 x 0.5) x 2 / 0.5 = 432 Miles per second or Mach 2043. Dante is a speed demon, haha, litterally. Holy crap! Dante can theoretically reach 1/500th of the speed of light!)

“I would assume you are making your calculation based off some grossly incorrect assumption somewhere in the algorithm but I cannot challenge that at the moment so I will regress from that.”

You assume that I’m incorrect because you cannot counter it.

I am incorrect actually. I didn’t add it correctly and I didn’t add the Quick Heart, which increases Dante’s speed while Devil Triggered by an additional 0.5.
The equation should go like this:
Alastor’s lightning speed (72 mps) * Devil Trigger Speed Boost (1.5 base speed + 0.5 QH speed boost) * QuickSilver Acceleration (2) / Slow Time from the Chrono Heart (0.5) = 576 miles per second.

You see the first equation was:
B + (B * DT) * Q / T
And the new one is:
B * (DT + QH) * Q / T

This is because DT multiplies the Base by 1.5, but with the QH affect on the DT it increases the Base by 2. So you add the QH to the DT before multiplining to the B. Then you factor for the Acceleration done by Q and finally multiply by 2 again as time is slowed to 0.5 its normal speed (shown by dividing by 0.5 which is the same as multiplying by 2).

Now you probably noticed the major differance between equation 1 and 2 and that is: B “+”(B*DT) vs B “*”(DT+QH). Devil Trigger allows Dante to move at 1.5 his regular movement speed. If you work out the numbers you will see that even though the equation is altered, it doesn’t alter the number produced by it.
E1 says: 72 + (72 * 0.5) = 108
E2 says: 72 * (1.5 [edit out the QH to keep the equation equal as it wasn't included in E1])= 108.
That alteration was done just so that it more accurately and simply depicts the effects of DT.

So, 576 miles per second or 2,073,600 MHP is equal to 0.003 C.

Congratulations, by forcing me to look at my equation for Dante’s speed again you allowed me to show that he isn’t 1/500th the speed of light, but rather he is 1.5/500th the speed of light.

(Dante can also withstand hellfire, which is said to burn significantly hotter than a volcano. Volcano’s can burn at least as hot as 2,200 degrees F.)

“Can withstand fire attacks.”

Sephiroth cannot do so to the same degree. Dante can withstand hellfire without taking any damage at all. Fire Material attacks do cause fire damage, but not in the range that it will always totally incinerate a normal human being. Despite this Sephiroth can still be hurt, marginally, by these attacks. Yet Dante can be immolated by flames that are at least well above 2200 F and still take no damage. On the otherhand Sephiroth walked through fire in Nimbelham and shown no discomfort or damage and large fires can reach temperatures that rival valcanos so Sephiroth might not be too far behind Dante here.

(I’ve mentioned the fact that he can survive below 0 K ice attacks.)

“Can withstand ice attacks.”

Absolute Zero temps? You understand that number right? The point at which any energy cannot be transfused. Sephiroth has never shown himself capable to surviving attacks even close to that number. Ever. In fact all that is known about the Ice Attacks in FF7 is that A) they are below the freezing temperature and B) not cold enough to kill a regular human. Then again the Ice attack damage in FF7 are mostly done through kinetic energy rather than the absorbtion of heat energy. Again Ice attacks are something that Sephiroth has shown no immunity too regardless.

Dante on the other hand can TANK Below Absolute Zero, at this point quantum mechanics, time, electro magnetic fields, and gravity are going to be severly messed up (as they do get messed up when theorising about temperatures below 0K and above Absolute Hot [so much so that the two absolute temperatures might be the same temperature]) and if he uses Royal Block he will take absolutely no damage from it. Even if he is totally encased in Below 0K ice he only takes minor damage. This is absurd reality breaking stuff here and he takes it in stride.

(By the way, the big bad of the first DMC game was an interdimensional reality warper / actual immortal. … Dante beat him with a sealing spell that had enough power to prevent him from touching the human world for another 2000 years.)

“Dante can seal off a deminsion. Also not able to destroy immortal characters.”

Yeah, he can’t kill his actually immortal enemy because his enemy is ACTUALLY IMMORTAL. That doesn’t stop him from sealing off Sephiroth into a dimension that he has absolutely no chance to escape becase Sephiroth hasn’t shown the capacity to deal with dimensional barriers, much less powerful ones that are able to hold of a being that makes reality his bitch.

(Dante is a POWER HOUSE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rz2ivHHCug

(By moving his hand an INCH he completely demolished a solid stone monolith that stood several stories tall))

“Noted”

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyPunrjd1kU&feature=related

(Dante tosses the Savior several feet so he can walk away from underneath its hand. Several 100 tons of solid stone at the very least)

“Noted.”

(So speed and strength both go to Dante.)

“The strength part is still an assumption on your part. You have no proven that Seph’s display’s of strength were not equal or dominant. You did not comment on Seph using mental power alone to destroy and hurl skyscrapers, (something alot heavier than the gigas Savior)”

Except Sephiroth has never shown the capicty to hurl or destroy skyscrapers with his mind. The only building he has destroyed through a means outside of burning it down was the Shinra building during Advent Children, and in that movie he cut it to pieces and still didn’t destory the whole thing. He didn’t hurl pieces of it either; that was a little thing called “Gravity”. See Issac Newton for more on this subject, but the main idea of it is “things that are UP will come DOWN”. All Sephiroth did was cut through some of the supports of the top section of the building; that shown neither physical strength nor mental capacity. It does show that his sword is sharp, but we already knew that.

I haven’t proven that Sephiroth has equal or greater strength to Dante because Sephiroth hasn’t demonstrate to have equal or greater strength to Dante. Dante has shown the ability to transfer massive amounts of kinetic energy with minial effort (first video) and the ability to move several hundreds of tons (2nd video); Sephiroth hasn’t, thus Dante has superior strength.

(Agility is at best a draw for Sephiroth, at worst Dante takes that too because his teleportation is faster as Sephiroth’s teleport takes a second for him to become able to move again)

“What information do you have to support this statement?”

In game observation from Sephiroth’s fight against Zack. And ingame observation of Dante’s teleportation “Air Trick”. In a direct comparision Dante dissappears faster, reappears faster, and can move again after reappearing faster than Sephiroth can do the same.

(Aside from teleportation, Dante’s movements are far more agile as he constantly flips, twirls, twists, slides, revolves, and leaps with the upmost of ease. Contrasts Sephiroth who is mostly straight forward and cannot quickly change his flight path after entering flight)

“Support that last statement with evidence.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgSuIIesIE
Staring at 0:55, and the next 2 minutes are done entirely in the air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3sXpwPXbHY&feature=related
From the beging is a 2 minute sky dance. The 2nd part also shows Dante’s powerful Distortion ability. Keep in mind that he is using the same weapon that did this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rz2ivHHCug) from an inch away and here he is using full blown punches; this is a tough demoness.

Also Dante just moves more when doing stuff. Sephiroth just kinda stands there and swings. Even when flying/jumping he is still upright. Dante just does more stuff. Nearly a quarter of all of Dante’s attacks alter his standing to the ground, no longer making him perendicular to it; the same is simply not true about Sephiroth.

(Dante’s Royal Block makes the vast majority of any magic that Sephiroth MIGHT be able to use useless anyways becuase it has been shown to block similar attacks that have a much higher power. Additionally since Royal Block is instant instead of passive it cannot be debuffed so any attempt made by Sephiroth to null Royal Block is just wasting time.)

“Seph can create barriers that as of yet are indestructable such as the one he created on the crater he was sleeping in. It made him undectable by the weapons and the sister ray could not penetrate it. (A gun about 300 feet long) You also disregard his mind abilities such as the power to hold back holy (the strongest attack the earth is capable on and truely, the ultamite summon) and his ability to control Cloud. Also, Seph is not simply a material person, he is a soul whos body was absorbed into the lifestream but who’s soul remained, and to the extent of the damage that he caused on AC. He also can simply hold off attacks that his offender might bring with only the power of his mind, such as holy.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17oJeTCGEic&feature=related

I’m sorry, but was that the Sister Ray DESTORING the barrier you said that it couldn’t do damage to? Why, yes, yes it is. His ability to control Cloud was because Cloud had Jenova cells in him and Sephiroth was control those cells which allowed him to affect Cloud. Even then Cloud could resist him as he did when Sephiroth tried to make Cloud kill Aries; when that failed Sephiroth decided to just do it himself and gave us the iconic moment of when she dies.

You said Sephiroth survived, and this is partially true. It largely depends on what you define “survive” as. If you mean to say that he was still alive, then no, he did not survive. His body was destroyed and his life was taken from him and he returned to the LifeStream. However, he was able to focus his hate on Cloud so much so that his self awareness remained even among the LifeStream so that part of him did “survive”. It doesn’t change the fact that he would have remained that was for eternity if he wasn’t able to absorb still existing Jenova cells that were in the physical world and transplant his awareness into them, thus rebirthing himself as seen in Advent Children. So since in this battlefield there is no lifestream or other source of Jenova cells, once Sephiroth is dead… he’s dead. Like deader than dead, dead. Unlike Ganondorf, Sephiroth can’t just will himself back into existance when he is reduced to a soul.

Additionally Dante’s weapons are souls. He wields them very easily and has shown the capcity to bring them into submission. Then there are the enemies that he just completely destroyes entirely, like Phantom, Abigale, or Despair Embodied. He completely destroys these entities, even their soul. Sephiroth’s soul state isn’t enough to keep him alive from Dante’s peak might.

(So endurance goes to Dante too)

“Not evidence sufficiently.”

Possibly, but I don’t see Sephiroth outlasting him.

(You know I’m begining to think that not even a well developed Materia set up would allow someone to direclty defeat Dante without a cheap trick like infinite Shield, Death, and counter-Omnislash)

“My research abilities at the moment are limited, please accomodate me. What is the extent on time limit, cooldown, etc of this royal block you speak ok? What can and cannot penetrate it?”

Royal Block and Royal Release’s speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKnrqg9wR30
When Dante sits there and takes the attack and flashes spark and he doesn’t get hurt, that’s Royal Block. When Dante zips forward so fast that he blurs and enemies randomly die, that’s Royal Release. Royal Block doesn’t have a cooldown. There is no limit to when Dante can use it. And thus far it has not failed to protect him from an attack. Whenever a video shows Dante get hit while attempting Royal Block it is because the player has failed to preform the Royal Block at the correct time; Canon battles and cutscenes show that Dante has fast enough reflexes that this should never happen. Royal Block has blocked attacks from Vergil’s sword, Yamato, which is said to be able to cut through anything including dimensions. Also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKnrqg9wR30

That is Dante Royal Blocking one of the most powerful attacks from the most powerful being in DMC canon. The fact that the attack instantly killed Trish is proof of its power as she can nearly comperable abilities to Dante and she was nothing compared to its might. Royal Block just cast it aside like a play thing. This is also in the middle of Mundus’s domain where he controls reality to the fullest extent. By all means, if Dante can totally ignore Mundus’s might here of all places then its power is increadibly immense.

(Anyways there you go. Dante is faster, stronger, more enduring, and more agile. He probably thinks faster too since he commonly causes things to richocett off of random objects and hits his targets with perfect accuracy while doing this.)

“These statements are not evidenced, possibly the speed on, the rest no.”

Play DMC 3 and use Gunslinger with Spiral. The attacks do as I say. I don’t need to provide evidence of it when the games already do that. And I did show proof of it in my very next following statement that you quoted but didn’t comment. I’ll leave them in this post so that you may observe them again.

****
As seen at 3:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGv5w3kCVHc

And 0:17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV-Z19chIJQ
****
That is the proof that I provided in my previous post that you didn’t look at nor comment on. Please use your eyes next time before you type.

(And when he uses the Gunslinger attacks for Spiral, which includes shooting a bullet with another bullet so that they both bounces off of the walls into the target that the first bullet was flying straight towards already. And yes that does break logic as the second bullet would have to travel faster than the first despite that it is fired from the same gun; Dante can do weird things like that with his guns…So his thinking speed is probably better too. At least in the way that he is able to understand complex geometry in an instant and in a constantly changing environment. And he has the percise control to accuratly pull off these shots with extreme ease.)

“Septh is made of Jenova’s genes, more than other mako enhanced creatures or persons. Seph obsorbed the knowledge of the ancients as well at the temple of the ancients. I would say Dante’s mind probly isn’t comparable to Seph. Seph’s mental power’s and knowledge mostly likely far overshadow Dante’s. But please, fill me in what does Dante know?”

Knowledge doesn’t equal the ability to preform complex math in an instant. Sephiroth KNOWS a lot about a bunch of already dead hippies that made peace with the earth. That doesn’t mean jack against someone who can calculate the most convoluted path from point A to point B while hitting as many as possible other points between A and B and factoring in that A and B are moving independantly of each other. Knowing history doesn’t mean anything imporanat in a fight and the enemy is proven to be able to accurately be able to make improbably shots. Dante can imagin, track, and cause these mathimatical nightmares; Sephiroth looses all hope beyond measure when Cloud just makes himself really fast and unpredictable (omnislash V5 and 6). Dante is already insainly fast, as I proved earlier, and with his already unpredicatable nature and now proof that he is able to make these kind of calculations in his head on the fly means that he will be able to predict where Sephiroth will be and be able to attack him in a manner that Sephiroth is not likely to predict.

(The ONLY way Sephiroth would be able to stand against something like this is if he is simply immune to it all. Unfortuantly since Cloud’s regular old sword does its job of beating things to death pretty well when used against Sephiroth that means that Sephiroth isn’t going to be able to take advantage of the “Ganondorf Defense” (awesome match in my opinion. I loved seeing that silver haired momma’s boy taken down a peg by a true villian).)

“Stand up to what? Your claims have been boastful at best. Stop ignoring statements of myne and consider the information, stop jumping to cocky assumptions aswell”

Let us see here. How to express this in any way other than “facepalm”… Ah yes. *Headdesk*

Sephiroth cannot survive being hit by a large sword repeatedly. Every time he has been killed it is because of this. This means that Sephiroth doesn’t have the physical endurance to shrug off even the most basic of attacks IF they hit him.

Dante, by means of being faster, CAN hit Sephiroth. Dante has large swords. Thus he has the two requirements to being able to kill Sephiroth. Dante also has a signifacant endurance advantage which means that he is likely able to outlast Sephiroth in a slug fest.

The fact that Dante’s power extends to the point of being able to destroy the soul only solidifies his ability to kill Sephiroth. Additionally since Dante can deliver attacks the likes of which Sephiroth has never encountered before (dimensional breaking/sealing kinds) means that it is highly unlikely that Sephiroth would be able to counter them effectively.

Next time take the time and effort to actually accept the burden of proof, because honestly shoving that away from yourself and putting it all on the person who is proving you wrong is a horrible way to debate as all you can ever say is “prove it” even when they already have.

Do understant this this entire post is me being nice. I could have just left it as “The burden of proof is on you” because I DID actually back up my statements and you did not.

Sorry, DC. I like to talk a lot when its about characters I like and/or hate and/or am knowledgable about. As it turns out I like Dante, hate Sephiroth, and know a lot about both so it makes me rather wordy.

I can still think of a few things to add but the end result is that Dante is still too fast for Sephiroth to form a comprehensible defense against and then gets his momma’s boy ass handed to him from an enemy that still isn’t really trying that hard.

We’ve argued this out (and frankly I hope this’ll attract more ppl in the Recent comments thing), is it time for a FP award?

although a couple a weeks off i 2nd originalA’s nomination for the FP award.
dante curbstomps sephy on all bases. that and dante doesn’t look like a lady, sephy looks like a woman going through her menstrual cycle (no offense to women).