Tyranid Hive Mind Vs The Four Chaos Gods

Tyranid Hive Mind Vs The Four Chaos Gods

Brought to you by ROBOTECH2140

The Tyranid Hive Mind squares off against The Four Chaos Gods (both from Warhammer 40K)

They would have all of their powers and abilities (including fleets, titans, ground units, special character, etc.)

The battlefield would be the Warhammer 40,000 universe (material space and immaterium) with only the Tyranid Hive Mind and the Four Chaos Gods left to battle (Slaanesh, Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Khorne).

All other races have been destroyed/corrupted/devoured however for the purpose of this battle these other race’s powers/abilities should not be included (e.g. no Chaos Tau Riptide Suits or Tyranid Bio-Titan Squiggoths)

Main points to consider:

Would the corrupting influence of Chaos have any effect on Tyranids (remembering and animals and inanimate objects such as Titans can be corrupted)?

Would destruction of all other races weaken the Chaos Gods, effectively “starving” them of new souls/emotions to feed off?

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66 Comments on "Tyranid Hive Mind Vs The Four Chaos Gods"

  1. StealthRanger August 18, 2013 at 9:14 am -      #1

    Who the hell is Robotech? Is he one of those guys who pays for threads but never shows up? This is why we shouldn’t have the pay system >.>

    Anyways, pretty sure Chaos has superior DC to the Tyranid equivalents. Plus Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes>>>>almost any notable ‘nid unit in almost every notable aspect

    As for the Hive Mind vs Chaos Gods. We know very little about the CG’s save for powerscaling off massively weaker Daemons and almost nothing about the Hive Mind itself and the CG’s are ridiculously too powerful to enter the materium, Tyranids can’t enter the warp without being destroyed due to lack of gellar fields. Retarded match is retarded and there can be no winner

  2. Amm0vamp1r3 August 18, 2013 at 9:17 am -      #2

    I’m Going Chaos Gods because Chaos wins all wars, why I am still in business

    castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos

  3. jackn8r August 18, 2013 at 9:38 am -      #3

    Don’t Chaos Gods stomp?

  4. The Imperator August 18, 2013 at 10:06 am -      #4

    I’ve heard rumors that the Chaos Gods are weaker than the Tyranid Hivemind, mostly because the Hivemind can cut off access to the Warp near itself and such. However, I don’t know enough Tyranid lore to argue one way or the other.

  5. Namer August 18, 2013 at 10:53 am -      #5

    I’m certain the entirety of the Immaterium is bigger than the volume of the entire Tyrannid Swarm. But that’s a useless thought.
    .
    My question is, if the Tyrannid Shadow in the Warp can cut off access to the Warp, can the Chaos Gods overpower it or something? Otherwise… two different enemies in two different dimensions. Oh, can the Tyrannids even enter the Warp? I don’t think they do…

  6. Crimson Sentry August 18, 2013 at 11:57 am -      #6

    Actually with all sentient life wiped out (except for a few very high level tyranids) the chaos gods would be severely weakened and as Imperator mentioned the Tyranids have an aura called shadow in the warp where they essentially block out all all psyhic connection to the area they are encompassing. (This is because every tyranid creature is psychic and unlike the eldar there are fuck tons more of them) In terms of winning and losing territory chaos fails miserably here even coupled with the fact the tyranid swarm can’t use chaos as biomass. If the chos gods had all the sentients back it’d be a stomp for them, otherwise the tyranids smoke em. (Although you can’t permanently kill chaos entities just banish them back to the warp where they reform) Albeit in this scenario the chaos gods would be in a perpetual stage of getting shit on by tyranids and getting reformed.

  7. StealthRanger August 18, 2013 at 12:04 pm -      #7

    “Actually with all sentient life wiped out (except for a few very high level tyranids) the chaos gods would be severely weakened”

    No not really, it’d just slightly weaken them and that’s about it

    “coupled with the fact the tyranid swarm can’t use chaos as biomass”

    Which would actually be a positive for Chaos since the ‘nids would slowly lose biomass

    Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes have very few Tyranids that could possibly match them tbh and would in most cases only lose to sheer numbers

    Still, both “god tier” beings are mostly unquantifiable

  8. Xornell August 18, 2013 at 12:52 pm -      #8

    Meh, +1 for the Chaos gods because they can’t be physically nommed.

  9. OberHeresy August 18, 2013 at 1:02 pm -      #9

    So….is this basically Tyranids vs. Chaos? Because, just so you know, the only reason the Chaos gods don’t just stomp the whole WH40k universe by themselves is because they don’t feel like it. They could just keep resurrecting their soldiers, keep sending out Daemons, ect. They just like the entertainment from what I know.

    Now, Hive Mind vs. Chaos Gods specifically, is kinda pointless, since the Hive Mind is basically unaffected by anything Warp related I believe, and the Chaos gods can’t be eaten.

  10. orber August 18, 2013 at 3:53 pm -      #10

    Chaos wins this.Infinity>billions upon billions of insects.And the effect of the shadow of the warp the nids project is debatable.Because it sure as fuck didn’t save these nids: img139.imageshack.us/img139/3343/daemonsjh6.png

  11. Aelfinn August 18, 2013 at 4:23 pm -      #11

    “No not really, it’d just slightly weaken them and that’s about it”

    I was pretty sure the Eldar prophecy went: “Either the Emperor will win the Heresy and the galaxy will be overrun by Chaos or Horus will win the Heresy, Humanity will die out, and then so will Chaos”.

  12. orber August 18, 2013 at 5:06 pm -      #12

    *Humanity will die out, and then so will Chaos”.*

    The new chaos deamons codex throws that piece if text into doubt though.Khorne apperantly got his own army of Orks being resurected everytime to wage a war of titanic proportions in his own realm.Unless that passage you posted implies the incursion of chaos into realspace itself.In that case it holds grounds because no souls to take over means no deamonic incursions.

  13. Tyran August 18, 2013 at 6:02 pm -      #13

    Draw, because they cannot attack each other. The Nids cannot enter the warp, and Chaos cannot reach the Nids in the realspace.

  14. SgCombine August 18, 2013 at 6:12 pm -      #14

    @Tyran
    Chaos would still be able to send CSM, traitor guardsmen, Dark Mech, and whatever other non-daemonic forces they have, but they would certainly run out of that kind of cannon fodder before the Tyrinids do. However if all 4 Chaos Gods focused on corrupting the Hivemind I’d think they’d probably be able to do it eventually. After all they have an eternity of attempts. I think the Chaos Gods might actually succeed (after a long ass time).

  15. Tyran August 18, 2013 at 6:28 pm -      #15

    @SgCombine
    It still an assumption, practically this is a draw.

  16. SgCombine August 18, 2013 at 6:29 pm -      #16

    @Tyran
    Ok =(

  17. OberHeresy August 18, 2013 at 6:32 pm -      #17

    “billions upon billions of insects”

    More like trillions upons trillions if we go just the known Tyranids, not even counting the massive main force thats outside the galaxy right now.

  18. Tyran August 18, 2013 at 6:41 pm -      #18

    @OberHeresy
    Infinite is still way superior to that.
    Although it doesn’t matter, those infinite armies have no way of reaching the Hive Fleets.

  19. ROBOTECH2140 August 18, 2013 at 6:54 pm -      #19

    Hi all, long time reader, first time battle requesting, however I don’t often post as I’m clearly not as well learned as othhers here but was keen to have some other opinions on something I’ve wondered for a while.

    Sorry, to clarify, this match up between the Hive Mind and the 4 Chaos Gods was not “individually” but as the entirity of the race, with the masters stepping in. I mean the Last Battle before the lights of the Milky Way finally grown dim. Who is left standing amongst the ruins? I thought, out of all the races, it would be one of these two (except maybe the Necron Star Gods but I know even less abiut them)

    I would be leaning towards the Tyranids, because even though you cannot completely destroy Chaos (from what I understand) the Chaos Gods are sustained by the fears and emotions they get in battle. Also (again from wheat I understand), they are a product (that’s not quite what I mean) of the Race of Mankind and Eldar (and other Milky Way native sentients?). Without these races to replenish chaos, and not beong able to be sustained by Tyranids, Chaos would evwntually be too weak to enter material space and be trapped (I don’t know if Chaos can use Tyranid Zoanthropes as portals as they do with human pskers). The Tyranids would then consume the rest of the bio mass in the Milky Way before moving onto the next galaxy (the advantage here being that they are not “bound” to Milky Way for b sustainance (this also assumes that there is life elsewhere in the WH40K universe).

    Actually, thinking about now, perhaps Tyranids vs Necron in the last batttle would have been a better match up (one hyperlife, one antilife, both immune to fear, etc.)

    Anyway, enough of my ramblings, and back to people who actually know what they’re talking about :)

  20. Neon Lord August 18, 2013 at 7:28 pm -      #20

    Chaos basically can’t sustain itself without sentient life. Removing the Imperium takes away a MASSIVE portion of their power.

    Without extra humans, Chaos can’t summon demons nearly as effectively due to a lack of sacrifices.

    Slaneesh will be severely weakened without Eldar souls to feed on.

    All the Tyranids have to do is wipe out the human followers with sheer numbers, and Chaos is gone. Tyranid stomp due to the scenario.

  21. The definition of insanity August 18, 2013 at 8:00 pm -      #21

    Well this looks interesting. Alright now if some cannon i know is correct The Tyranid incersion forces in the milky way at the turn of the 41st millennium is small in comparison to what has been seen outside the galaxy. It is estimated the entire ‘nid species has a mass of half of our entire galaxy. But it may come down to attrition but most likely it will end in STEELMEET until the milky way is picked clean or they breed a f*ckton of Doom of ma’liti and try to destroy the chaos gods through the masses of psycic beams killing the KHAYOS gods
    —–
    Little extra bit on why the nids are even attacking the milky way

    1) (most common) They are just hungery to keep their species alive
    2) They are running from something even more powerful
    3) they are being directed the the C’tan god called the outsider possibly to kill all sentient life to stop khayos or other S*it like that

  22. mack006 August 18, 2013 at 8:24 pm -      #22

    WELCOME BACK INSANITY!
    How was your little holiday?

  23. Aelfinn August 18, 2013 at 8:28 pm -      #23

    “Unless that passage you posted”

    It actually wan’t a passage, just something I remembered. It was up for debate, if people were feeling it.

  24. Neon Lord August 18, 2013 at 10:13 pm -      #24

    The Prophecy was made by the Cabal to Alpharius and Omegon, and was something like if Chaos won the Horus Heresy, Horus would realise his mistake as soon as he killed the Emperor and go on to destroy humanity and thus destroy Chaos. If the Emperor won the Heresy, the Imperium was doomed to millenia long suffering and death (so grimdark now).

  25. wpago August 18, 2013 at 11:12 pm -      #25

    Choas wins because tzeench is the master of fate and thus he goes nida lose

  26. The definition of insanity August 18, 2013 at 11:50 pm -      #26

    It is good to see you mack. but i wont be able to comment much due to my duties in the GLORYOUS alfa leigon

  27. ROBOTECH2140 August 19, 2013 at 4:11 am -      #27

    Sort of on topic, could low level Tyranids be corrupted (in the same way that animals can be corrupted into beasts) or high level Tyranids be corrupted to serve the Chaos Gods rather than the Hive Mind and fight against other Tyranid forces?

    Is the any sort of biomass/physical material left over from any of the Chaos forces (not just daemons but say corrupted creatures) that could absorbed then add some kind of benefit to new Tyranid strains?

    Would either of these scenarios make any impact to decide on a victor?

    Some really good points from everyone :)

  28. StealthRanger August 19, 2013 at 4:14 am -      #28

    “I was pretty sure the Eldar prophecy went: “Either the Emperor will win the Heresy and the galaxy will be overrun by Chaos or Horus will win the Heresy, Humanity will die out, and then so will Chaos”.”

    It was also stated that if the Emperor were to die then there would be nothing left holding Chaos back and they’d consume the material universe. By it’s description, it’s likely some form of dimension merging /shrug

    Though since the other races were destroyed here…..

  29. Neon Lord August 19, 2013 at 5:01 am -      #29

    “It was also stated that if the Emperor were to die then there would be nothing left holding Chaos back and they’d consume the material universe. By it’s description, it’s likely some form of dimension merging /shrug”

    That is also half the point. If Chaos were to consume the material universe, it would wipe itself out doing so (the great irony of Chaos).

  30. tyrannicuslictorface August 19, 2013 at 5:36 am -      #30

    Wait, was the match parameters EVERY single hive fleet? Even those we did not know about? Because, that could mean the tyranids are, well, uncountable. Possibly a couple of steps back from infinite. The tyranids did empty out an ENTIRE GALAXY’s worth of biomass, and a single world’s worth of biomass is already many many many many thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of tyranid organisms.
    .
    .
    This match could theoretically be endless. Khorne fighting against the endless hordes will be a self sustaining cycle of violence. The decomposition of all those corpses is Nurgle. Not sure about Slaanesh and Tzeentch though.

  31. Cananatra August 19, 2013 at 6:06 am -      #31

    Chaos wins this easily. As it is set in the 40k galaxy they can just pour out of the eye of terror or any other warp storm and overrun the tyranids. The nids will always be fighting a losing battle because every one they lose cuts into their stockpile of biomass. Chaos does not have that limitation. As for chaos losing power. Firstly they have all the forces loyal to them. Secondly they are somewhat self sustaining. Thirdly going on how long it took the gods to form with sentient life pumping energy in it would take billions of years for the energy to reverse to the point that chaos no longer exists.

  32. orber August 19, 2013 at 6:15 am -      #32

    *but as the entirity of the race, with the masters stepping in.*

    Khorne alone can create huge warprifts with a single swing of his blade according to the deamons codex.The hivemind has no such feats, and again the shadow of the warp is up for debate since the picture I posted clearly showed chaos deamons killing tyranids.If the shadow of the warp was a infallible thing those deamons couldn’t even exsist.

  33. StealthRanger August 19, 2013 at 6:30 am -      #33

    “Khorne alone can create huge warprifts with a single swing of his blade according to the deamons codex.”

    Even Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes can casually do that. As for the Shadow, it’s arguable a powerful enough being can ignore it’s influence really

    Although I must say that Bloodthirster pwning a Carnifex pic has always been an old favourite of mine

    images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121111062658/factpile/images/f/fd/Khorne_s_Fury_by_MajesticChicken.jpg

    I like this one better tho

  34. Neon Lord August 19, 2013 at 8:02 am -      #34

    “Khorne alone can create huge warprifts with a single swing of his blade according to the deamons codex.

    Even Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes can casually do that. As for the Shadow, it’s arguable a powerful enough being can ignore it’s influence really”

    Proof? All I can find is a passage “It is said that when Khorne takes up his sword, a single sweep can cut through reality itself, allowing Khorne’s daemonic legions to spill forth”.

    First, it starts off with “It is said…”, and a allowing daemonic legions to pour forth is not the same as a huge self-sustaining warprift.

    “This match could theoretically be endless. Khorne fighting against the endless hordes will be a self sustaining cycle of violence. The decomposition of all those corpses is Nurgle. Not sure about Slaanesh and Tzeentch though.”

    The Chaos Gods feed off emotion. Tyranids don’t feel emotion. Ergo, Chaos Gods can only gain emotion from their own human followers fighting. And Nurgle wouldn’t get any decay anyway due to the biomass being reconsumed and reused.

    “As it is set in the 40k galaxy they can just pour out of the eye of terror or any other warp storm and overrun the tyranids.”

    So they can pour out of these localised areas and then over the galaxy…how?

    “The nids will always be fighting a losing battle because every one they lose cuts into their stockpile of biomass.”

    If they win a battle, Nids lose nothing.

    “Firstly they have all the forces loyal to them.”

    A decent amount, but not enough to sustain them for very long.

    “Secondly they are somewhat self sustaining.”

    Clarification? Self-sustaining in what sense?

    “Thirdly going on how long it took the gods to form with sentient life pumping energy in it would take billions of years for the energy to reverse to the point that chaos no longer exists.”

    It takes a long time to make sentient life. It takes a very short time to kill it. Ergo, it is a lot faster to reverse.

    Chaos goes down fighting, but goes down nonetheless.

  35. StealthRanger August 19, 2013 at 8:06 am -      #35

    “Proof? All I can find is a passage “It is said that when Khorne takes up his sword, a single sweep can cut through reality itself, allowing Khorne’s daemonic legions to spill forth”.”

    I was actually referring to Daemon Princes and Greaters being able to create warp storms under their own power if anything tbh

    Although IIRC daemonic weapons due to being warp based ignore durability and defenses, as well as soulfuck

  36. The Auditors of Reality August 19, 2013 at 9:15 am -      #36

    I remember reading somewhere that the Imperium’s xenobiologists are unable to explain why such a large concentration of psykers as the Tyranid Hive Mind doesn’t draw armies of daemons into the material world, but that the explanation might be something to do with the fact that Tyranids are such powerful psykers, or that they lack anything resembling a soul. I’d say that whatever the reason, they must be immune from Chaos’ influence for the same reason. I’ll try and dig up the passage in my old codex.

    Anyway, I don’t think the Chaos cultists/space marines will last very long in this scenario, since they’ll become the Tyranids’ only source of biomass in the galaxy and therefore pretty much the entirety of the Tyranid swarm is going to be throwing itself against them. I don’t believe the Chaos Gods are able to exert much influence outside the Warp without human servants, or else they would surely have manifested themselves in order to challenge the Emperor instead of using Horus as a puppet. So I’m predicting that it’ll come down to a siege situation with the Chaos forces holed up inside the Eye of Terror, since any stragglers caught outside the Eye will be devoured and the Chaos Gods won’t be able to do jack to help them. I can’t predict what would happen if the Tyranids actually tried to invade the Eye, though. I’m not even entirely sure what the Hive Mind is or how Tyranid psychic powers work relative to the Warp.

  37. tyrannicuslictorface August 19, 2013 at 9:17 am -      #37

    Sooooo, does this match draw down to how long the unknown quintillions of quintillions of tyranids can force the chaos gods to expend all their energy and go out like candles?
    .
    .
    Really, if you bring in EVERY SINGLE Hive fleet, the tyranids are PRACTICALLY infinite, unless you want to measure the match in millenniums….

  38. Sauroposeidon August 19, 2013 at 9:34 am -      #38

    Wow.. never realized that deep down I had a soft spot for the nids.

    Holy fuck. I guess ya learn something new every day.

    Turns out I really, really, REALLY want them to not suffer defeat in this!

    That having been said.. I have a hard time seeing them take this.

  39. Tyran August 19, 2013 at 9:35 am -      #39

    @orber
    The only known fight between the Daemons and the Tyranids is when Leviathan invaded a Daemon World, and managed a draw. And in the 4th edition codex, IIRC, the Shadow in the Warp is stated to block daemonic incursions (there was no perils in the warp). The Hive Mind probably can’t close already existing warp rifts, but it can stop new ones of opening.

  40. orber August 19, 2013 at 10:01 am -      #40

    *Clarification? Self-sustaining in what sense?*

    As said before, Khorne has his own army of Orks being resurected everytime they die to wage war in his realm against his own forces.It’s the story of the warboss Deamon-killa, look it up.Ontop of that, it is implied that the “great game” being played by the chaos gods pretty much dwarfs everything that happens in realspace, hence why their attention is not on realspace very often.

    As for corrupting tyranids…well it’s a thorny issue but has happened before.There is a book where the Iron warriors corrupted a Nid bioship with the Obliterator virus and used it to transport titans with.The name of the book completely escapes me and will give a quote once found unless somebody beats me to it.The problem with the argument is however, that they where isolated cases and Chaos had yet to prove to be able to do this on a large scale, but however in the 5e nid codex their is a picture that clearly shows hivefleet Behemoth avoiding something called “the plague worlds” but I guess that’s to vague to use in this debate.

    Ontop of that, a huge Carnifex skull is a nice addition to your throne and a battle worthy of story.Nids don’t provide emotion but they sure as hell provide slaughter.Wether the nids enjoy it or not, they bleed well and make the red river flow…or green river…or purplish…whatever the fuck they bleed anyway.

  41. OberHeresy August 19, 2013 at 11:48 am -      #41

    Assuming we count the outside forces of Tyranids, this could quite possibly be an endless war. The Tyranids could presumably use the corpses of the CSM, and Daemons to fuel their war machine and make new biomass, not to mention the massive force they already have behind them, and THEN, you add to that trillions upon trillions of things in the Milky Way that can be made into forces. Heck, could in theory Ork Planets serve as a constant supply of biomass?

    Which makes me wonder how a Orks vs. Tyranids would turn out…..

    And unless Chaos can be defeated by wiping out all sentient life, they aren’t gonna go down.

  42. Xornell August 19, 2013 at 12:05 pm -      #42

    “As said before, Khorne has his own army of Orks being resurected everytime they die to wage war in his realm against his own forces.It’s the story of the warboss Deamon-killa, look it up.”

    Yeah I was gonna bring this up. An army of demonically-enhanced Orks would be in their glory fighting Nids until the end of time.

  43. Cypher August 19, 2013 at 12:09 pm -      #43

    This might help. Just looking through my Daemons codex and found this:

    – – –

    Lure of the Warp Stars
    “After a titanic Warp storm roils out of the Eye of Terror, the first Warp Stars are sighted – stellar anomalies whose unnaturally exact gravitational pull lures spacecraft and even small planets into their Daemon-haunted embrace.”

    – – –

    Wrath of the Chaos Sun
    “In the Maxil Beta System, a red giant star explodes in a warp-tainted Supernova. All those touched by its dark Chaos energies are mutated, possessed, or destroyed outright. The Imperium mobilises every military asset within fifty light years of the event, sending them straight to war. The resultant disaster is eventually contained at the cost of uncounted billions of lives.”

    – – –

    The Perillian Catastrophe
    “The Perillian gas belt swirls toward the agri world, ‘blah blah blah… corruption…”

    – – –

    Chaos should have enough things to turn away Tyranid advances. Warp stars being sent towards the fleets, tainting a star and make it go boom while there’s a war going on in its system.
    x
    The Shadow in the Warp drowns out a lot of psychic communication yes, but it’s not like Tyranids approaching the Maelstrom or the Eye of Terror would cut off the worlds there from the Warp. Daemon worlds still have sentient life in them to sustain the Chaos Gods after all.

  44. orber August 19, 2013 at 12:13 pm -      #44

    *he Tyranids could presumably use the corpses of the CSM, and Daemons*

    But that’s the problem.Deamons don’t leave bio-mass.

  45. Cypher August 19, 2013 at 12:42 pm -      #45

    Technically Khorne and Nurgle leave some sort of biomass behind. Explosion of blood for Khorne daemons sometimes, while Nurgle daemons leave behind puss, bile, etc.

    x

    To be fair, would a Hive Fleet really want to absorb tainted bio-mass that came from the death of a Great Unclean One?

  46. Cananatra August 19, 2013 at 2:29 pm -      #46

    “If they win a battle, Nids lose nothing.”

    They still lose biomass. Nowere is it stated their recycling is 100% efficient and even if it was the energy exerted by the tyranids as they move and fight and fire their bio weapons is forever wasted.

    “A decent amount, but not enough to sustain them for very long.”

    That’s total guesswork on your part. We have no idea the minimum needed for a self sustaining cycle, nor do we have concrete numbers of followers.

    “Clarification? Self-sustaining in what sense?”

    The self driven conflicts amoungst their servants.

    “It takes a long time to make sentient life. It takes a very short time to kill it. Ergo, it is a lot faster to reverse.”

    Drop a stone in a pond. Ripples created instantly, significant time for them to fade away. Your ananolgy is flawed anyway, they are sentient energy which means we should if anything be treating them as an energy wave which depending on teh medium could be almost perpetualy self sustaining.

  47. Tyran August 19, 2013 at 3:22 pm -      #47

    @Canatra
    I’m almost sure that it is stated somewhere that if the Tyranids win they recycle all their losses. The way GW writes them seems that the Tyranids get energy of nowhere. Althought IIRC their ships have bio-plasma reactors.

    Anyway if everything in the Galaxy is dead except the Tyranids and the guys inside the warp and warp rifts then the Tyranids simply are going to exit the galaxy for the next one. The Hive Mind knows that an attack to the Eye of Terror is suicide. But Chaos can’t really hurt the Nids in realspace, so draw.

  48. ROBOTECH2140 August 19, 2013 at 6:57 pm -      #48

    So from what’s been said, it essentially comes down to a battle of resources and who will run out first?

    I’ve read that Tyranids will invade a life abundant planet and leave nothing but a barren ball of rock behind (so plants, animals, oceans, top soils, atmosphere that is a fairy large amount of biomass input. Multiple that by how many planets have life/civilisation in the Milky Way (WH40K version) and this would be substantial.

    Tyranids will scower the battlefield after wards to absord the biomass of their enemies amd their fallen (recycling efficiency in question) but still substantial.

    I’m not entirely convinced babout the self sustaining nature of chaos, as most things I’ve speak of sepf destroying nature (I thought the reason for the Great Game was one of the Chaos Gods trying to get ascendancy over the others) and while all the battles including the Khrone Ork hordes would be essentially be 100% recycled within the warp I don’t thinkbthis would be true outside the warp in material space. I think they would lose some energy which with out souls and emotions to replenish them would eventually deplete to astage where they would not be able to manifest in material sspace/pose any threat to the Tyranids.

    Khrone may be the exception here, depending on whether the emotions generated in slaughter (terror, rage, bloodlust – which Tyranids don’t feel) or the actual act of slaughter is the fuel source. But then by himself, I don’t think Khrone can defeat the Tyranid Hive Mind/Race.

  49. Neon Lord August 19, 2013 at 9:34 pm -      #49

    “I was actually referring to Daemon Princes and Greaters being able to create warp storms under their own power if anything tbh

    Although IIRC daemonic weapons due to being warp based ignore durability and defenses, as well as soulfuck”

    Daemon Weapons are simply weapons with a Daemon bound into them. It doesn’t necessarily mean they are better than normal weapons though.

    “As said before, Khorne has his own army of Orks being resurected everytime they die to wage war in his realm against his own forces.It’s the story of the warboss Deamon-killa, look it up.”

    I don’t see how the story is relevant to the match though. They are ghosts fighting the same battle over and over again. You can’t pull them out to use somewhere else.

    “Ontop of that, it is implied that the “great game” being played by the chaos gods pretty much dwarfs everything that happens in realspace, hence why their attention is not on realspace very often.”

    And is likely to continue in the face of Tyranids.

    “As for corrupting tyranids…well it’s a thorny issue but has happened before.There is a book where the Iron warriors corrupted a Nid bioship with the Obliterator virus and used it to transport titans with.The name of the book completely escapes me and will give a quote once found unless somebody beats me to it.The problem with the argument is however, that they where isolated cases and Chaos had yet to prove to be able to do this on a large scale”

    It probably won’t work on a large scale as the Tyranids can simply adapt to the virus after enough encounters.

    “but however in the 5e nid codex their is a picture that clearly shows hivefleet Behemoth avoiding something called “the plague worlds” but I guess that’s to vague to use in this debate.”

    Do you have a page number? I wouldn’t mind looking at this.

    “The Shadow in the Warp drowns out a lot of psychic communication yes, but it’s not like Tyranids approaching the Maelstrom or the Eye of Terror would cut off the worlds there from the Warp. Daemon worlds still have sentient life in them to sustain the Chaos Gods after all.”

    If they throw enough Tyranids, it is possible they shut out all Warp activity in the area. Considering their numbers, it shouldn’t be hard to launch an attack of that size after everything else has been consumed.

    “They still lose biomass. Nowere is it stated their recycling is 100% efficient and even if it was the energy exerted by the tyranids as they move and fight and fire their bio weapons is forever wasted.”

    It may not be 100%, but its pretty 99%
    “When the culling is complete and every shred of biomatter is assimilated, the Tyranids leave in search of fresh feeding grounds…”

    Energy exerted by Tyranids leaves ‘exhaust’ in the atmosphere, which is entirely consumed after all opposition has been eliminated. Bio weapon ammo biomass can be reclaimed after a battle.

    “Drop a stone in a pond. Ripples created instantly, significant time for them to fade away. Your ananolgy is flawed anyway, they are sentient energy which means we should if anything be treating them as an energy wave which depending on teh medium could be almost perpetualy self sustaining.”

    Your analogy refers to normal energy. Chaos feeds of emotional energy, which is fleeting and comes and goes very quickly. Without emotion, there can be no Chaos. Therefore, if Tyranids destroy all life, there can be no Chaos as there is no emotion anymore.

    “The self driven conflicts amoungst their servants.”

    So removing the servants removes the cycle then.

  50. Mardonious August 20, 2013 at 4:01 am -      #50

    The undead ork army people mention is taking place within the warp, where weirder things happen, there is nothing that states that that can happen outside, in real space.

    The main problem for chaos is that the only sentient life left would be that serving them, with most of the galaxy wiped out, that would severely cripple the power of the gods of chaos. they live off emotion and the Nids have none. The chaos gods in the moment can not even defeat the Imperium, they are slowly pushing them back, yes but that is because the Imperium is fighting all the other faction across the galaxy. It is stated in the 4th ed Nid rule book that the Imperium would need to scale up its war machine by 300% in order to stand against the Nids, and that would only work if the other races would be gone. The Chaos gods cannot match that.

    Sure there are infinite demons in the Warp, but they are kind of stuck there with out a link to the real world, and if they are fighting the nids with no humans or other sentient life left to recruit they would be stuck in the warp.

    In the newest Nid dex it states that the nid psychers pull their power directly from the hive mind, so they cannot be used by chaos as portals, and the troops of the nids are incorruptible as they have no free will, they are just the physical extension of the hive mind, they have no free will and cannot be sway to chaos. It is not like the chaos gods or demons just point to people and make them turn to chaos, they use mind tricks and fear or just turn them to madness through the warp for their victims to fall to chaos. This cannot work on nids.

    Another thing is that the gods have been shown only to affect the real world on planets where the material realm has already been weakened by demonic incursion.

  51. Mardonious August 20, 2013 at 4:29 am -      #51

    also about the Nids avoiding worlds, they also avoid tomb worlds because they would loose more than they gain, but if they have consumed everything else they will not care about a bit flu on a planet.

    Another thing is that Chaos is fighting a battle of loosing ground every time they loose they loose another planet permanently and the Nids just grow in number.

  52. orber August 20, 2013 at 7:06 am -      #52

    *I don’t see how the story is relevant to the match though. They are ghosts fighting the same battle over and over again. You can’t pull them out to use somewhere else.*

    It was an answer to the self sufficient question.They resurect (as in they are actually the same Orks with the same lust for war, not ghosts) and fight and feed Khorne’s realm.

    *And is likely to continue in the face of Tyranids.*

    Maybe.If the nids prove to be a great enough of a threat like the Emperor did, who knows what happens.

    *It probably won’t work on a large scale as the Tyranids can simply adapt to the virus after enough encounters.*

    As far as the virus goes, I agree with you on that.But the fact that it has been possible gives room for the possibility of Nurgle having some power in this match.

    *Do you have a page number?*

    According to my PDF reader, it’s page 12.

    *The undead ork army people mention is taking place within the warp, where weirder things happen, there is nothing that states that that can happen outside,*

    It happened with Kharn.But I am not going to press that argument since there are many interprentations regarding his revival and I don’t feel much for debating opinions.

    * The chaos gods in the moment can not even defeat the Imperium*

    They actually can if they wanted too.Actually it would be a pushover if they dedicated themselves to it.But why would you destroy something that serves and feeds all 4 faces of Chaos?

    *It is stated in the 4th ed Nid rule book that the Imperium would need to scale up its war machine by 300% in order to stand against the Nids, and that would only work if the other races would be gone.*

    Codexes are generally a bit biased towards the race discussing it.This counts for Chaos aswell obviously, but if you wan’t to argue from that point then the 6th edition rulebook calls Chaos “the greatest threat”.

    And where does the argument come from that “Chaos dies” if sentient life dies? I agree that they are pretty much stuck in the warp should it happen, and most certainly the warp would stop growing in power, but it is clearly stated that Deamons themselves have personality and it is the great game that currently deicides which god is the most powerfull.The materium at this point is just throwing fuel on a burning fire that produces it’s own fuel.

    So yes, if you really go down to it, it’s a draw I guess.Because you got chaos stuck in the warp unless the CSM try something, but invading the warp is completely out of the question.

  53. StealthRanger August 20, 2013 at 7:11 am -      #53

    “Codexes are generally a bit biased towards the race discussing it.This counts for Chaos aswell obviously, but if you wan’t to argue from that point then the 6th edition rulebook calls Chaos “the greatest threat”.”

    Yeah, Codexes generally tend to say that about their races. IIRC one of the Ork ones said that if all the Orks in teh universe teamed up they’d be unstoppable to the other races

    And yes, Chaos would pretty much curbstomp the Imperium if they dedicated themselves to the task and united and if Abaddon wasn’t so terrible a leader (seriously, they should replace him some time)

  54. Neon Lord August 20, 2013 at 7:27 am -      #54

    “It was an answer to the self sufficient question.They resurect (as in they are actually the same Orks with the same lust for war, not ghosts) and fight and feed Khorne’s realm.”

    It’s a drop of water in a vast ocean in the scale of the galaxy.

    “According to my PDF reader, it’s page 12.”

    You’re right, a “The Plague Worlds” label is ridiculously vague.

    “Codexes are generally a bit biased towards the race discussing it.This counts for Chaos aswell obviously, but if you wan’t to argue from that point then the 6th edition rulebook calls Chaos “the greatest threat”.

    They are slightly biased, but everything is really the greatest threat. Chaos can overwhelm the Imperium because its Chaos. Orks are able to annihilate all the other races if they united (which is impossible), Necrons are able to conquer the galaxy if all of the woke up (but are still long way from doing so), and the Tyranids can wipe out the galaxy if they all arrived unless all the other races united.

    “And where does the argument come from that “Chaos dies” if sentient life dies? I agree that they are pretty much stuck in the warp should it happen, and most certainly the warp would stop growing in power, but it is clearly stated that Deamons themselves have personality and it is the great game that currently deicides which god is the most powerfull.The materium at this point is just throwing fuel on a burning fire that produces it’s own fuel.”

    Because the Warp is made up of emotion. It’s ‘material matter’ fluctuates as the universal balance of emotion changes. The Chaos Gods merely represent large aspects of emotion, but sentient life powers the warp itself. Without sentient life, the Warp dies with it. Emotion does not hang around after people die, it dies with people.

    Daemons also only have personalities as they are part of their gods. Any Daemon can produce another Daemon, but it has to be sufficiently powerful enough to control it without it turning on its master. The Chaos Gods are simply the largest Daemons there are, and can thus afford to create all their minion Daemons.

    “So yes, if you really go down to it, it’s a draw I guess.Because you got chaos stuck in the warp unless the CSM try something, but invading the warp is completely out of the question.”

    Wiping sentient life wipes out the Warp. Ergo, no Chaos Gods (or at least so severely weakened as to have the power of a nurgling) and Tyranids win.

  55. The Auditors of Reality August 20, 2013 at 2:00 pm -      #55

    Chaos is “the greatest threat?” I thought the ‘Nids were the top dogs in the 40K universe, at least since the Necrons were retconned into bad Tomb King expies.

    As for the obliterator virus, I don’t think it’s comparable to physically corrupting the Tyranids purely through psychic power like the Chaos Space Marines.

    Here’s an interesting thought- if the Tyranid fleet invaded the Warp, could the Hive Mind, being nothing more than the collective consciousness and “eternal hunger” of the Tyranid race, manifest as a physical being and fight the Chaos pantheon mono e mono?

  56. orber August 23, 2013 at 11:01 am -      #56

    Just re-read some stuff in the new Deamon codex.The fluff in there clearly stated that in order for a violent act to please Khorne the one commiting the violent act has to experience emotion.It seems the simple act of violence no longer is enough as some sources stated.

    Seeing how Khorne was pretty much my biggest line of defence against the Nids, I give up on my points for a Chaos victory.

  57. Mardonious August 23, 2013 at 4:28 pm -      #57

    I am wondering if Nurgle’s diseases might have any effect on the Nids evolutionary process, like the Ultramarines did with the virus they planted into the Nid hiveship, in one of the Uriel Ventris novels

  58. Tyran August 23, 2013 at 5:38 pm -      #58

    @Mardonious
    It would have an effect until the Nids adapt.
    IIRC they are already immune to the Zombie Plague.

  59. Captain Loken August 29, 2013 at 10:39 pm -      #59

    Couple things, first chaos gods have godly powers so could fry the hive minds. Also chaos could destroy planets to deprive nids of food source.

  60. Tyran August 29, 2013 at 11:14 pm -      #60

    The Chaos Gods never showed the power to destroy a planet in realspace.

  61. Mardonious August 30, 2013 at 3:30 am -      #61

    The chaos gods, are not necessarily gods, rather extremely powerful demons, they need the barrier to real space to be weakened before they can interact with it, usually during a demonic invasion, like the Gheistos Cataclysm

  62. Captain Loken August 31, 2013 at 10:51 pm -      #62

    @tyran
    the match says they have minions avalible ( such as chaos space marines). So, a chaos space marine strike cruiser could conduct orbital bombardment.

  63. Captain Loken August 31, 2013 at 10:52 pm -      #63

    also this is a death match so the tyrinids would have to get into the warp to kill the chaos gods.

  64. Mardonious September 1, 2013 at 2:17 am -      #64

    if there is nothing sentient for the gods to live off of the will become weakened enough for the warp itself to consume them, and its not like the Imperium hasnt tried that tactic, but that chaos means chaos looses that world, and with the size of the hive fleet they can only outrun it for so long

  65. tyrannicuslictorface September 1, 2013 at 10:23 am -      #65

    Captain Loken August 31, 2013 at 10:51 pm – #62
    @tyran
    the match says they have minions avalible ( such as chaos space marines). So, a chaos space marine strike cruiser could conduct orbital bombardment.
    .
    ~
    .
    This isn’t a handful of hiveships we are talking about here. We are talking about the entire tyranid race. The combined hordes of what? More than five hive fleets put together? Such a force of Hive-ships could only be faced by the necron/eldar fleets in their prime, or the entire pre-HH IoM fleets were focused into one army.
    .

  66. Tyran September 1, 2013 at 12:04 pm -      #66

    “also this is a death match so the tyrinids would have to get into the warp to kill the chaos gods.”

    There isn’t any rule that forces the Tyranids to do such thing. As I have said before: this is a stalemate.

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