Zerg Vs Necromorphs

Zerg Vs Necromorphs

Suggested by EnigmaJ

The Zerg (StarCraft) invade the Dead Space universe and come into contact with the Necromorphs.

Which race would be victorious?

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226 Comments on "Zerg Vs Necromorphs"

  1. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 8:02 am -      #1

    Why is the picture for Zerg a Dark Templar?

  2. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 8:24 am -      #2

    Do Necromorphs have anything for Kerrigan?

  3. OberHerr June 11, 2013 at 8:31 am -      #3

    Gonna say Necromorphs to start…..

  4. TheBoss June 11, 2013 at 8:32 am -      #4

    “Why is the picture for Zerg a Dark Templar?”
    _
    Don’t you mean a Dark Zerglar?
    _
    …I’ll show myself out.

  5. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 8:45 am -      #5

    “Gonna say Necromorphs to start…..”

    I can make the case for the Zerg, but I haven’t gotten around to playing Dead Space so if you could fill me in on their capabilities that would be great.

  6. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 8:50 am -      #6

    Without PIS Kerrigan wanting to withdraw all the Zerg forces and keep them at Char, Protoss consistently glassing Zerg planets, and no war allowing them to utilize 100% of their resources Zerg get pretty fucking scary. I can bring out the calcs if you want. They’ll be in the range of pumping out trillions of units a day after about half a week.

  7. OberHerr June 11, 2013 at 8:54 am -      #7

    ‘I can make the case for the Zerg, but I haven’t gotten around to playing Dead Space so if you could fill me in on their capabilities that would be great.”

    I don’t know a ton about the Necromorphs myself, but I know that they can make some pretty OP stuff. Like, the Ubermorph, which I don’t think can be destroyed really short of throwing it into a sun.

    Also, I’m not sure who the Xenomorphs infect things, thought I do know they can take over any dead tissue.

    What do the Zerg use for attacking close range? Their mouths? I’m wondering how suited they are to fighting an enemy you need to strategically dismember to kill.

    I guess it kinda depends on how much tissue the Necromorphs get to start with, and how they infect stuff.

  8. TheSorrow June 11, 2013 at 8:54 am -      #8

    Based off of what I know from Deadspace 1 & 2, I believe the Zerg have more advantages by far.

  9. Virgil June 11, 2013 at 9:45 am -      #9

    @Jackn8r

    Reporting for duty sir!

    After going through our debate and examining what I know about the Necros I have to say that the Zerg take it so far.

    I will be “neutral” for this fight but you’ve given me plenty of stuff from the Zerg to work with :)

  10. Mr. happy June 11, 2013 at 10:30 am -      #10

    IIRC the necros first drive their target insane or kill them(if any necros are around) to turn them into necros in which the process releases a lot of heat. In contrast the zerg can kill their targets but gain intelligence immediately or infect them which is almost instantaneous.

    the zerg has also highly evolved acid based critters which might be effective against the necros(perhaps even the dreaded ubermorph) as you can’t fight if you just dissolve before your opponent.(roaches,banelings and corruptors)

    zbout taking over dead tissue,the necros have the ability to turn and dismembered limb into a necro but the zerg simply absorb it and use it(might be wrong for both though)

  11. Ford Prefect (the Hoopy Frood) June 11, 2013 at 11:03 am -      #11

    I don’t see the necros surviving attacks from acid throwing creatures like Roaches or Banelings. Do the necros get their Squid-Moon things or no?

  12. luchagoort June 11, 2013 at 11:08 am -      #12

    don’t the necromorphs need a steady supply of humans in order to make new ones?

    Initial bet on the zerg due to superior numbers as well as them having many more space-capable units then the necromorphs (if space ever factors into this, that is)

  13. Ford Prefect (the Hoopy Frood) June 11, 2013 at 11:19 am -      #13
  14. Diana June 11, 2013 at 11:30 am -      #14

    If the Marker is present then all zergs would be converted into zerg-necromorphs.

  15. Ford Prefect (the Hoopy Frood) June 11, 2013 at 11:37 am -      #15

    I assume the victory also depends on whether A) The Brethren Moons are present, and B) whether or not Zerg are vulnerable to necromorph infection and vice-versa

  16. Namer June 11, 2013 at 12:42 pm -      #16

    I’m pretty sure the Zerg will still beat the necromorphs through sheer numbers and far greater versatility. I could be wrong, but Necromorphs will need to take over other ships (like the USG Kellion) to travel through space, while the Zerg can do it by themselves, carrying ground units inside Overseers/Overlords or Leviathans.

    But can we decide on if the Zerg can be Necro-fied first ? It could make or break the match.

  17. OberHerr June 11, 2013 at 12:56 pm -      #17

    Well, is there any reason they shouldn’t be able to be Necro-fied?

  18. Namer June 11, 2013 at 1:36 pm -      #18

    Because the Zerg are the ones doing the assimilation, plus they have a pretty robust biology…

    Flimsy Logic. I seriously need to think before posting. I still say the Zerg will still outnumber, outmanoeuvre and in some cases, Outgun the Necromorphs.

  19. Draco June 11, 2013 at 1:52 pm -      #19

    FINALLY, a match I can get into…

    The Marker must be present as the Necromorphs actually need it to be ‘alive’.

    Infectors jab a spike into the brain of its target, and change the targets DNA structure to best fit what the Marker wants. I dont believe Zerg are immune to a rapid 10 second DNA scramble.

    The Swarmers are a new way of infection in DS3. I believe it’s nearly the same thing except they have to group up and dig into a target. Taking it over in less time.
    There are, I think 8 Bretheren Moons…? These things are FTL Marker signals more powerful than the Markers themselves are.
    (Spoiler: Markers are just conduits of a Moons powers)

    I think the Necro’s win, just to sheer mindfuckery…

  20. DragonRebornSTOMP June 11, 2013 at 1:54 pm -      #20

    I’m going with the Zerg. At first, they might be able to be Necro-fied, but they will adapt to the power of the matrixs’, either genetically or psionically, what with their Primal enhancements. The Brethren Moons won’t help much when faced with several dozen Leviathans, some of whom are Moon-Sized themselves. The Zerg are more powerful, more diverse, and more numerous. Acid spitters and such will finish off the regenerative Necro’s.

    NecroMORPHS, NecroMONGERS, NecroMANCER, NecroNS. Seeing a theme here.

  21. DragonRebornSTOMP June 11, 2013 at 1:56 pm -      #21

    ‘Markers’

  22. Draco June 11, 2013 at 2:01 pm -      #22

    @DragonReborn
    Can you show an instance where they were able to adapt psionically? That might have been helpful if they were able to do that with the Protoss and all…

  23. DragonRebornSTOMP June 11, 2013 at 2:05 pm -      #23

    The instance I was thinking of is the Overmind’s plan to use Kerrigan to break free of the Dark Voice. And subsequently Kerrigan’s use of the sentiant primal Zerg to change herself and the capabilities of the Swarm She changed the whole basis of the hive mind when she used the forst spawning pool. They can’t adapt to the Protoss psionics because the Protoss don’t use it to control or manipulate them, just kill their asses dead. And the Zerg HAVE beaten the Protoss on many occasions despite their awesome physical and psionic might.

  24. Draco June 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm -      #24

    I know they’ve beaten the Protoss, I was using them as an example. Why cant Zerg make themselves blanks? cause they cant.

    Did using Kerrigan work Exactly? The Moons being many Lightyears away could drive people insane and kill themselves in mass quantities.

    I mean I know the Zerg can adapt, but to a very powerful mental attack that drives things insane?

    And all it takes to create a new moon is enough bio-mass near a Marker to trigger a Convergance event that lifewipes the whole planet in time.
    This means the Zerg are at a huge disadvantage, they are nothing but bio-mass. And wherever there are Necromorphs there are Markers.

  25. luchagoort June 11, 2013 at 2:46 pm -      #25

    Pardon me if i’m wrong, but wasn’t there a part in starcraft 2: wings of liberty with the researcher saying that zerg cells actively hunt each other so that the ones with the best DNA get to reproduce. This could be used/adapted to fight against the “DNA altering” from the infectors.

    keep in mind, i’m not an expert on either starcraft or dead space, all i’ve really done is played the games and that’s it.

  26. Draco June 11, 2013 at 2:58 pm -      #26

    @Lucha
    I’ve only played SC 1 and SC:BW, so I dunno what your talking about. If you could confirm this by posting the cutscene with that I’d appreciate it.

    Also, the Infectors scramble all of the DNA in the dead host. The Marker, moon, or combat forms need to kill them for them to be infected. But can die in the process of infection as well.

    I dont think a dead Zerg will be able to fight back against infection… But all the Biomass Zerg leave around will be like ripe pickings at the harvest. Necro’s can utilise any biomass, and given a little time can turn a severed arm into a Brute, or a Tripod. Zerg bases have plenty of the stuff, and if taken can be used to create Tripod Hives and become a massive spawner of Necro’s.

  27. luchagoort June 11, 2013 at 3:11 pm -      #27

    i did a little bit of digging, and found the research notes that describe the DNA altering thing, as well as something you people might find interesting.

    “Zerg sample recovered by Raynor’s Raiders, 6.10.2504.
    Sample appeared dead when brought in, including tissue necrosis. However, tests now reveal frantic cellular activity, and it is moving.
    This defies everything I understand about biology. I’m tracking massive generational changes in each cell. In the last hour, this thing has evolved more than humans did in 100,000 years.”

    and

    “I noticed earlier that zerg alpha amino acids have unique R groups. I’ve run a full regimen on some. Results are stunning. Zerg aminos are able to combine dead cell matter with normal proteins to biosynthesize new cells. They don’t suffer generational cell degradation. Simply put, a zerg will never die of old age. They can constantly renew themselves, albeit with radically changing cell structure.”

    so, as i thought, i was wrong about the zerg cells hunting eachother, but they aren’t new to having their DNA altered or revitalizing dead cells, which might lead to some resistance to the infectors.

  28. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 3:29 pm -      #28

    Thanks for changing the image admin.

    “I don’t know a ton about the Necromorphs myself, but I know that they can make some pretty OP stuff. Like, the Ubermorph, which I don’t think can be destroyed really short of throwing it into a sun.”

    Can Necromorphs be infested?

    “What do the Zerg use for attacking close range? Their mouths? I’m wondering how suited they are to fighting an enemy you need to strategically dismember to kill.”

    Close-range varies between strain, but maiming and dismembering isn’t out of the question.

    “I guess it kinda depends on how much tissue the Necromorphs get to start with, and how they infect stuff.”

    I’m guessing how much Necromorphs currently have? Since this is apparently all Necros vs all Zerg.

    “can kill their targets but gain intelligence immediately or infect them which is almost instantaneous.”

    This pretty much. Zerg can kill an organism and then rob its DNA afterwards. or just infest it outright.

    “the zerg has also highly evolved acid based critters which might be effective against the necros(perhaps even the dreaded ubermorph) as you can’t fight if you just dissolve before your opponent.(roaches,banelings and corruptors)”

    Plus corrosive blood.

    “If the Marker is present then all zergs would be converted into zerg-necromorphs.”

    Which, and how?

    “Well, is there any reason they shouldn’t be able to be Necro-fied?”

    How does it work?
    Zerg physiology fights back at even the cellular levelto the point of survival of the fittest inside their bodies. This along with ridiculously fast evolution rates prevent them from being generally impervious to infestation without psionic manipulation.

    “Infectors jab a spike into the brain of its target, and change the targets DNA structure to best fit what the Marker wants. I dont believe Zerg are immune to a rapid 10 second DNA scramble.”

    Proof of 10 seconds figure? And what happens when the Zerg infests said spike as it attempts to infest the Zerg. Also, proof that it can penetrate Zerg carapace?

    “There are, I think 8 Bretheren Moons…? These things are FTL Marker signals more powerful than the Markers themselves are.
    (Spoiler: Markers are just conduits of a Moons powers)
    I think the Necro’s win, just to sheer mindfuckery…”

    What mindfuck advantages to the Necros have over the Zerg? Zerg flyers fly in space based on fart-propulsion and have superior FTL via wormholes. Plus Kerrigan is over twice as strong as she was as the Queen of Blades currently.

    “I know they’ve beaten the Protoss, I was using them as an example. Why cant Zerg make themselves blanks? cause they cant.”

    Blanks?

    “Did using Kerrigan work Exactly? The Moons being many Lightyears away could drive people insane and kill themselves in mass quantities.”

    Not that impressive. High Templar have been shown to communicate telepathically across hundreds of lightyears. Kerrigan communicates telepathically to all the Zerg across lightyears as the Hivemind. She’s psionically active across those massive distances 24/7.



    Do Necros even have anything (other than the Uber) against banelings?

  29. Draco June 11, 2013 at 3:30 pm -      #29

    @Lucha
    Thats more changing Cell matter than DNA changing, and a Necromorphs infection process pretty much does the revitalization for the Zerg, so i wouldn’t be suprised if a Necro infection was accepted by the Zergs systems seeing how it’s doing near the same job. except it changes the form of the creature and giving it enchanced abilities by turning organs and other useless things in the body into pure muscle and, depending on the creature, special abilities like spitting acids.

    Changing their cellular structure and changing dead tissue is good, but it’s not changing the very DNA that makes you up.

  30. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 3:35 pm -      #30

    “I’ve only played SC 1 and SC:BW, so I dunno what your talking about. If you could confirm this by posting the cutscene with that I’d appreciate it.”

    It’s in Stetmann’s logs.
    The zerg sample has developed an ocular organ. Will limbs be next? There is a basic dichotomy to zerg cell reproduction. Type A cells throw off seemingly random mutations. Type B cells hunt down these mutations and destroy them. It’s survival of the fittest on the cellular level. Successful mutations thrive.

    “Also, the Infectors scramble all of the DNA in the dead host. The Marker, moon, or combat forms need to kill them for them to be infected. But can die in the process of infection as well.”

    luchagoort posted the quote I was going to grab about tissue still growing and the immune system still fighting back even though it’s dead.

  31. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 3:39 pm -      #31

    “Thats more changing Cell matter than DNA changing, and a Necromorphs infection process pretty much does the revitalization for the Zerg, so i wouldn’t be suprised if a Necro infection was accepted by the Zergs systems seeing how it’s doing near the same job. except it changes the form of the creature and giving it enchanced abilities by turning organs and other useless things in the body into pure muscle and, depending on the creature, special abilities like spitting acids.

    Changing their cellular structure and changing dead tissue is good, but it’s not changing the very DNA that makes you up.”

    Actually it is. The quote was talking about the Zerg sample evolving which is DNA.
    Here’s a primal Zerg evolving drastically in under 10 seconds:

  32. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 3:40 pm -      #32

    Sorry for triple post, that was supposed to be timestamped at the 50 second mark.

  33. Draco June 11, 2013 at 4:12 pm -      #33

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW0cbXAcgVg

    4:15-4:30
    At the 4:18 mark the infector latches onto the body and at 4:28 he detaches, though it looks more like it got stuck rather than it was finished.

    Can Zerg infect dead tissue? Necro’s are reanimated dead tissue.

    “Actually it is. The quote was talking about the Zerg sample evolving which is DNA.
    Here’s a primal Zerg evolving drastically in under 10 seconds:”

    it grew and gained a glow like the creature it ate. Drastic evolution? not really…

    “There is a basic dichotomy to zerg cell reproduction. Type A cells throw off seemingly random mutations. Type B cells hunt down these mutations and destroy them. It’s survival of the fittest on the cellular level. Successful mutations thrive.”

    this is worrysome, but it says ‘succsesful’ mutations survive. The Infectors process is a full-body rapid change in the DNA structure (mutation) thats very successful. what happens when the cells that hunt mutated cells are changed?


    “Not that impressive. High Templar have been shown to communicate telepathically across hundreds of lightyears. Kerrigan communicates telepathically to all the Zerg across lightyears as the Hivemind. She’s psionically active across those massive distances 24/7.”

    The moons were all across the galaxy and i think farther (dont quote me on that last bit) and were telepathically talking to Isaac, driving him mad as well as everyone on Tau Volantis at the time while they were all going to earth… which they got there in less than an hour from all over the galaxy.

    they were the reason humans hadnt found any aliens for their whole history up to the events of DS3. they lifewiped whole sections of the galaxy by themselves…

    “What mindfuck advantages to the Necros have over the Zerg?”

    the Black Marker on planet earth forced humans to evacuate the planet i believe.
    The government prototype on Aegis 7 could reach a bit into space, survive a continent sized-piece of earth being dropped on it, and still transmit its marker signal enough to create an infection bad enough that a whole ship was killed except for 4 survivors, 3 or which died later.
    The Gold Marker on Titan station drove the whole station on the moon to go crazy with almost no survivors in just hours.
    The moons… i already explained the moons.

    the mindfuckery advantage goes to the Necro’s, planets ravage themselves in utter chaos. driven mad by the Moons power.

  34. DragonRebornSTOMP June 11, 2013 at 4:16 pm -      #34

    They sound like Cthulhu’s testicles.

  35. Draco June 11, 2013 at 4:27 pm -      #35

    @DragonReborn
    kinda look like them too.

    images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130207200340/deadspace/images/7/7c/DS3_Brother_Moon_01.png

    24.media.tumblr.com/56dbb8cd164e244e5b8a150fa372b942/tumblr_mk2beswAPH1r77g57o1_1280.png


    @Jack
    Something to combat the Banelings? What about a Nexus? they’re also living Markersignal, and are gigantic. there were some frozen on Tau Volantis that were small mountain size.
    the necro’s could also just mass produce Tripods. Those things are about… four, five times the height of a human and can catch up to a space-elevator as well are the progenitors to a Tormentor which is the armored version of a tripod that wasnt phased by a heavy machine-gun on a Small ship.

  36. The definition of insanity June 11, 2013 at 5:01 pm -      #36

    This looks interesting Two races notorious for zombie like humanoids and are good races to be used in horror games (I KNOW SC is an RTS)
    i will go with zerg for now butthats because i know more about the zerg than the necromorphs

  37. Hermit June 11, 2013 at 5:08 pm -      #37
  38. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 5:10 pm -      #38

    “Can Zerg infect dead tissue? Necro’s are reanimated dead tissue.”

    Lore heads say that Zerg can infect anything that isn’t deemed antithetical to them. I don’t see why not.

    “it grew and gained a glow like the creature it ate. Drastic evolution? not really…”

    I don’t think you realize what that showed. That wasn’t the creature simply morphing, and growing another set of eyes in 10 seconds (which is still impressive,) it completely evolved. That much evolution is still much more than how much humans have undergone in the last 100,000 years.

    “this is worrysome, but it says ‘succsesful’ mutations survive. The Infectors process is a full-body rapid change in the DNA structure (mutation) thats very successful. what happens when the cells that hunt mutated cells are changed?”

    Yeah, changing Zerg DNA to something so different it can’t be recognized as Zerg anymore is specifically not a successful mutation to the Zerg, as Abathur stated in HOTS that keeping the swarm identity is more important than anything. That quick change of the Zerg genome I can say quite confidently would be targeted by the B cells who we know can work that fast by the Stetmann log statement saying that a piece of Zerg tissue can evolve more than humans did in 100,000 years in an hour.

    “The moons were all across the galaxy and i think farther (dont quote me on that last bit) and were telepathically talking to Isaac, driving him mad as well as everyone on Tau Volantis at the time while they were all going to earth… which they got there in less than an hour from all over the galaxy.”

    Yeah, Kerrigan communicates across the Koprulu sector 24/7 as the Hivemind. Do you know how fast they moved? If it was across the entire galaxy, and if not where the starting point was? Because Kerrigan and Leviathans (moon sized ships) are both capable of making wormholes for FTL which are instant except for the time it takes to enter them.

    “the Black Marker on planet earth forced humans to evacuate the planet i believe.
    The government prototype on Aegis 7 could reach a bit into space, survive a continent sized-piece of earth being dropped on it, and still transmit its marker signal enough to create an infection bad enough that a whole ship was killed except for 4 survivors, 3 or which died later.
    The Gold Marker on Titan station drove the whole station on the moon to go crazy with almost no survivors in just hours.
    The moons… i already explained the moons.”

    And Kerrigan doesn’t die, can create wormholes (even in and atmosphere,) has a beam-o-death www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvhOWJ_Xa-U&feature=youtu.be&t=3m40s , is over twice as strong as QoB who was already stronger than Nova who levels city blocks with TK, and can prevent experimentation and possibly infestation telepathically:
    The primary purpose of life was to survive. And most life survived by eating other life. The zerg were the most pernicious and hungry life-forms the protoss had ever encountered. They had come to the Koprulu sector specifically to destroy the protoss. And now, as the Swarm continued to expand throughout the sector, the situation was approaching the tipping point.

    The danger was inherent in the zerg genome. It existed by taking other life-forms into itself, assimilating their strengths. This was how the Queen of Blades had been created. And the result was an even stronger and more dangerous zerg hive mind—one that was now recognized as the most critical threat in recent protoss history.

    The pervasive control of the Queen of Blades extended throughout all zerg infestations. This made it perilous to isolate and study any form of the zerg biology. In fact, any attempt to study the zerg would alert her to the activity. She sometimes manipulated or thwarted experiments, and she had often attempted to subvert the experimenters.

    And apparently, distance was not a limiting factor.

    This colony here… it had to be obliterated.
    -In the Dark

    “the mindfuckery advantage goes to the Necro’s, planets ravage themselves in utter chaos. driven mad by the Moons power.”

    Only reason this happens is because people are driven insane. No proof that the Markers/Moons can corrupt/drive Kerrigan insane.

    @Virgil Hey, cool to see you’re still active :)

  39. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 5:17 pm -      #39

    “@Jack
    Something to combat the Banelings? What about a Nexus? they’re also living Markersignal, and are gigantic. there were some frozen on Tau Volantis that were small mountain size.”

    And if the Zerg just bring in a single Leviathan and launch billions of scourges at it (scourges take down Battle cruisers which have survived purifictation before which is teraton level)?

    “the necro’s could also just mass produce Tripods. Those things are about… four, five times the height of a human and can catch up to a space-elevator as well are the progenitors to a Tormentor which is the armored version of a tripod that wasnt phased by a heavy machine-gun on a Small ship.”

    These don’t sound nearly as impressive considering the Zerg can just pump out billion oof 25 meter tall Ultralisks or Banelings who explode with 2.5 tons of energy each. Heavy machine guns aren’t much, in the HOTS intro cinematic Ultras tank mortar rounds to the face.

    Also as Hermit pointed out, Infestors have Neural Parasites.

  40. OberHerr June 11, 2013 at 5:17 pm -      #40

    “Only reason this happens is because people are driven insane. No proof that the Markers/Moons can corrupt/drive Kerrigan insane.”

    Actually, your the one that has to prove she can’t.

  41. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 5:30 pm -      #41

    “Actually, your the one that has to prove she can’t.”

    It’s not guilty until proven innocent. There’s no material presented currently (proof) stating the capabilities of the Markers/Moons. I can’t give a counter argument with proof for Kerrigan if I have nothing to counter. Burden of proof is him first.

  42. DragonRebornSTOMP June 11, 2013 at 5:44 pm -      #42

    @Ober
    it’s called ‘Burden of Proof’. You and yours made the claim, you have to back it up.

  43. luchagoort June 11, 2013 at 5:46 pm -      #43

    not to annoy you, jackn8r, but the markers have been proven to turn people insane. Nicole appearing at all in the dead space series for one. also the intro to that one dead space wii game has you playing as a crazy guy i believe.

    however, seeing as how powerfull Kerrigan is in her universe, i think she could handle it. But i’ll leave that to smarter people to figure out.

  44. OberHerr June 11, 2013 at 5:48 pm -      #44

    @DR Jackn8r
    We are saying she can be mind-raped because the are shown to drive whole planets insane. Now you have to prove that Kerrigan is immune to that sort of stuff. you made the claim she is. Prove it. :)

  45. OberHerr June 11, 2013 at 5:49 pm -      #45

    Sorry for got to add after “the in the above post, Brethen Moons.

  46. Hermit June 11, 2013 at 5:50 pm -      #46

    @ jack
    How about presenting evidence that Kerrigan has resisted mental attacks.

  47. Draco June 11, 2013 at 5:51 pm -      #47

    “Only reason this happens is because people are driven insane. No proof that the Markers/Moons can corrupt/drive Kerrigan insane.”

    has anything tried actually driving her mad? making her see ghosts of the past, experience horrific hallucinations enough to be driven to the point of suicide? fight off monsters of her darkest dreams that arent really there?

    gotta prove that she cant be driven to madness. that she xant be affected by dimentia and a sudden urge to create new markers… a psykers mind is already fragile by SC standards, it requires great training and focus to be able to not accidentally rip apart people.

    “I don’t think you realize what that showed. That wasn’t the creature simply morphing, and growing another set of eyes in 10 seconds (which is still impressive,) it completely evolved. That much evolution is still much more than how much humans have undergone in the last 100,000 years.”

    Necromorphs can do more drastic ‘evolution’ in ten seconds than that. All their organs and blood vessels transform into muscle, they grow new appendages, gain new abilities like spitting acids, extra eyes, ect.
    far more than growing and changing like that did.


    from the wiki it says that the humans were the last source of life in the galaxy and the moons were spread out across the entire galaxy. this means massive FTL travel from all parts of the galaxy to earth in less than an hours time. (rough judgement of the events of the Awakened DLC in DS3)

    “Also as Hermit pointed out, Infestors have Neural Parasites.”

    how will this be helpful? Necromorphs dont have brains AFAIK. They run on the signal produced by the moons, Nexus’, and Markers. The first thing an infector does is stab the brain of its chosen host.
    Markers are inanimate objects.
    Moons are… well, moons.

    “And if the Zerg just bring in a single Leviathan and launch billions of scourges at it ”

    well, Nexus’ are ground troops, and the moons will appreciate the additional biomass and can also launch spores with Necromorphs inside at their targets. Moons swallow entire populations of planets, hovering near it and just sucking in to be transformed into additional biomass.

    “And Kerrigan doesn’t die, can create wormholes (even in and atmosphere,) has a beam-o-death”

    She was barely able to hold it against another psyker. but it looks cool.

    “, is over twice as strong as QoB who was already stronger than Nova who levels city blocks with TK, and can prevent experimentation and possibly infestation telepathically:”

    powerscaling? or are there canon feats showing city block+ attacks?
    also, key words there are ‘possibly’


    There’s nothing showing Kerrigan can resist her mind being messed with by the Moons which can cause everyone on Tau volantis to go insane. And even further proof is the Markers driving everyone mad on multiple worlds. Can see resist it is what i’m asking?

  48. Hermit June 11, 2013 at 5:55 pm -      #48

    How powerful (penetration power) is the stab thingy is the Necromorphs?

  49. Draco June 11, 2013 at 6:11 pm -      #49

    the infectors stabby thing? they like to go for the eye’s, but they can break through an armored helmet and the skull with one strike.

  50. ReDruM June 11, 2013 at 7:12 pm -      #50

    To say the Markers drive entire planets insane so it should do it to Kerrigan is a fallacy. The Markers have never shown the ability to corrupt the mind of one as powerful as Kerrigans. She has the strength of will to control the minds of trillions of creatures and her mind itself is nothing like what the Marker has encountered.

    “powerscaling? or are there canon feats showing city block+ attacks?
    also, key words there are ‘possibly’”

    She has shown the telekinetic ability to level buildings and pluck Battlecruisers out the sky en mass. For reference to Battlecruisers size they are 560 meters long and 86 meters high protected by shields and neo-steel armor. She has also lifted Thors into the air and crushed them for instant kills.

  51. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 7:20 pm -      #51

    “not to annoy you, jackn8r, but the markers have been proven to turn people insane. Nicole appearing at all in the dead space series for one. also the intro to that one dead space wii game has you playing as a crazy guy i believe.”

    Did Nicole or any of the others have TK or the ability to resist TK?

    “We are saying she can be mind-raped because the are shown to drive whole planets insane.”

    You mean population right? Yeah, why is that such a big deal? Kerrigan (I know this is slightly different, but I’m pointing out scale) communicates telepathically with billions of Zerg at all times. Their bodily actions ultimately are all controlled by her.
    She doesn’t drive people insane, she fries minds:
    A single glance fried that trooper’s mind, and
    she was already looking for a third as he swayed and
    fell, blood leaking from his eyes and ears.

    (She also accidentally fried her parents minds when she was a kid.)

    “@ jack
    How about presenting evidence that Kerrigan has resisted mental attacks.”

    Well, for resisting methods that are supposed to drive her to insanity, there’s the fact that she resisted Narud:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-eJezQV1cY

    There’s nothing that indicates any degree as to what she can withstand mentally other than deduction based off her general psionic abilities. She has resisted psi-screens before though, which exist for the sole purpose of mentally blocking ghosts from using all of their abilities, and if left on for 7 hours or more drives you insane. Kerrigan basically ignored this when she went hunting for Ethan Stewart in Shadow Hunters (keep in mind this was as a Ghost, so she was quite a few orders of magnitude (see Q&A 13) less powerful than she is now.)
    So the ultimate answer is yes, she can resist mental attacks and is also on the telepath level of controlling billions.

    “has anything tried actually driving her mad? making her see ghosts of the past, experience horrific hallucinations enough to be driven to the point of suicide? fight off monsters of her darkest dreams that arent really there?”

    Narud the shapeshifter. She killed him.

    “gotta prove that she cant be driven to madness. that she xant be affected by dimentia and a sudden urge to create new markers… a psykers mind is already fragile by SC standards, it requires great training and focus to be able to not accidentally rip apart people.”

    Since when are the stronger SC psykers weak compared to Deadspace? I’ll happily pull out Ulrezaj single highhandedly taking on a dozen Zerg armies and mind controlling them along the way, or the Twilight Archon continent-sized psionic storm, or Kerrigan stopping hypersonic rounds in their tracks and firing projectiles at the same velocity with TK, or The Voice in the Darkness surviving a planet blowing, up having greater cloaking that Dark Templars and, and still possessing Templar even after that, or hell even a piece of Creep that became sentient and psionic and ended up possessing some Zealots.
    She resisted Narud, psi-screens (which should have driven her mad after wearing it for so long,) and also the influence of Amon who according to Zurvan is a planet buster.
    youtu.be/tkrFY-Hs5Jg?t=27m24s
    She says the trace is long gone, because she lost her memory as the Queen of Blades.

    “Necromorphs can do more drastic ‘evolution’ in ten seconds than that. All their organs and blood vessels transform into muscle, they grow new appendages, gain new abilities like spitting acids, extra eyes, ect.
    far more than growing and changing like that did.”

    No, they can’t. Necro infestation just rearranges the DNA from the victim organism into Necro DNA…not exactly the same as undergoing many millennia of cell division and natural selection on a cellular level in 10 seconds. Growing appendages and gaining new abilities from dying and being given Necro DNA isn’t the same as or nearly as impressive as independently gaining those abilities yourself which hadn’t existed before within the entire species in 10 seconds. That’s not evolution, that’s just changing a few physical characteristics. Zerg do that all the time. Zerg larvae can grow a whole Ultralisk body in a matter of a few seconds. Even infestation causes these types of growth which again, is not evolution.
    imgur.com/a/MUM2i

    “from the wiki it says that the humans were the last source of life in the galaxy and the moons were spread out across the entire galaxy. this means massive FTL travel from all parts of the galaxy to earth in less than an hours time. (rough judgement of the events of the Awakened DLC in DS3)”

    Ok, but what was the furthest distance from Earth? You can use that to find the high end of Necro FTL. ( Zerg is thousands-millions c.)

    “how will this be helpful? Necromorphs dont have brains AFAIK. They run on the signal produced by the moons, Nexus’, and Markers. The first thing an infector does is stab the brain of its chosen host.
    Markers are inanimate objects.
    Moons are… well, moons.”

    Wasn’t aware of that. Point conceded.

    “well, Nexus’ are ground troops, and the moons will appreciate the additional biomass and can also launch spores with Necromorphs inside at their targets. Moons swallow entire populations of planets, hovering near it and just sucking in to be transformed into additional biomass.”

    How will any of this affect a Leviathan?

    “She was barely able to hold it against another psyker. but it looks cool.”

    So?

    “powerscaling? or are there canon feats showing city block+ attacks?
    also, key words there are ‘possibly’”

    I don’t see why it wouldn’t be infestation as well considering experimentation was just meddling with the Zerg DNA and that’s exactly what Necro infestation entails.
    As for being over twice as strong as the QoB:
    Q&A 13 says:
    The psi index rating (PI) was developed by the Confederacy, so the only beings that have been reliably measured with it are Terrans. It goes from 0 to 10.

    Between 0 and 2, there is no noticeable psionic ability. (I’m a 1, personally.) At 3 and above, a person is considered “sensitive” to telepathy but is not a telepath. (The wranglers for the Ghost program are usually around 3.5.) PI 5 is telepathic, which also happens (surprise, surprise) to be the minimum acceptable rating for Ghost training.

    PI 8 is potentially telekinetic, although PI 8s have been known to exhibit other outstanding powers. PI 8 is very rare. Nova is a PI 10. The only other PI 10s on record are Sarco Angelini (superintendent at the Dominion Ghost Academy) and pre-infestation Sarah Kerrigan. There is no data on how Spectres rate while under the influence of Terrazine.

    Terran equipment refers to the Queen of Blades as class 12 because it can’t measure her PI rating at all. She exceeds the scale and is at least an order of magnitude above 10.

    So she’s an order of magnitude above the max of the scale which is Nova as the Queen of Blades. Here’s a quote of Nova with the psi-nuke level a block thing from Ghost: Nova:
    “The TPF had already cordoned off a four-block radius surrounding the skyscraper. When Mal went through the cordon, he saw why: There were bodies everywhere. Not a single sign of trauma on any of them. Also damage consistent with a major explosion, but without any of the signs. No burn marks, no scorching, no evidence of any kind of explosive agent. Plenty of broken glass, metal, plastic, and wood, though.”
    Starcraft: Ghost–Nova pg. 57


    After Kerrigan emerges from the first spawning pool, she becomes even stronger than previously as the Queen of Blades. Then, Izsha stated to Kerrigan in a private conversation that Zurvan was stronger than Kerrigan. Kerrigan then defeated him, and consumed his essence effectively making her currently over twice as strong as the Queen o Blades who was already an order of magnitude stronger than Nova, who leveled a block.

    “How powerful (penetration power) is the stab thingy is the Necromorphs?”

    Yeah, because some Zerg carapace is tougher than BC armor.

    “the infectors stabby thing? they like to go for the eye’s, but they can break through an armored helmet and the skull with one strike.”

    If that’s their best then it’s most likely not going to work.

    “For reference to Battlecruisers size they are 560 meters long and 86 meters high protected by shields and neo-steel armor.”

    Not sure which type of Battel Cruiser, but the larger ones reach all the way up to 11km.



    Infection</strong-Necros can't infect Zerg due to immune system and Kerrigan preventing it.
    Physical combat-I haven’t pulled out the numbers yet, but I can show you why the Zerg can literally bury the Necros in a pile of bodies (all of which can’t be used for anything.)
    Psionics-Still up for discussion I suppose.

  52. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 7:28 pm -      #52

    Bear with me please, I didn’t include many links to sources of these quotes and things because all the posts get moderated now if you have over 4 links I think it is.

  53. The definition of insanity June 11, 2013 at 7:34 pm -      #53

    I wonder who is winning i just fell asleep through most of this debate

  54. mack006 June 11, 2013 at 8:07 pm -      #54

    teh the zerg will view the necromorphs as moving pieces of pure biomass. I mean just look at them! All that meat for them to gorge on.

    I am sure eventually the Zerg will grow resistant to the necromorph virus. The virus itself is not fatal right away as it slowly makes you mad with its severe mindfuck which means it gives the Zerg time to react or something. I also don’t believe the Zerg can be affected by their mind messing up properties as long as it is connected to the hive mind. I think the Zerg hive mind is a lot stronger then the Necromorph’s one.

    As I said before the marker mainly affected civilian worlds where inhabitants may not be strong willed or disciplined enough to resist the marker. Kerrigan is too connected to the Zerg in order to be mindfucked. Her roots are too deeply entranched to her… people. SHe is also one of the strongest psykers in the Starcraft universe which means her mind is a lot stronger then a average human being. I mean if Isaac can resist it then Kerrigan can probably do it as well.

    One MAJOR disadvantage for the necromorphs is that they cannot travel through space easily as they need a host ship to travel. This means that they can only do ground engagements at the enemy. A thing the Zerg will just sneer at and send groups of flying Zerg creatures like mutalisks and broodlords. I mean how can the necromorphs counter that?

    Another thing I should mention is that necromorph tissue are EXTREMELY soft. An example is the Pulse Rifle which fires ultra low calibre rounds at hypersonic speed. The round is strong enough to squash flesh and break bones but not strong enough to penetrate ship hulls. The necromorphs as said before are nothing but walking pieces of unguarded meat.

    So to sum it up the Necromorphs cannot mindfuck Zergs by the virus because they will eventually evolve out of it. They can’t mindfuck Zergs by the marker cos the hive mind is stronger and their units are shit compared to the Zergs

    P.S. Sorry for my bad grammer. I lost like 80% of my brain cells while doing my homework. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done
    8(

  55. Draco June 11, 2013 at 8:42 pm -      #55

    @Redrum
    “To say the Markers drive entire planets insane so it should do it to Kerrigan is a fallacy. The Markers have never shown the ability to corrupt the mind of one as powerful as Kerrigans. She has the strength of will to control the minds of trillions of creatures and her mind itself is nothing like what the Marker has encountered”

    Uh, how exactly is this a no-limits fallacy? She’s a being with a brain, she thinks, the only difference is that she’s psionic. it can affect her, it affects the mind, implementing the Marker code into the brain.

    “You mean population right? Yeah, why is that such a big deal? Kerrigan (I know this is slightly different, but I’m pointing out scale) communicates telepathically with billions of Zerg at all times. Their bodily actions ultimately are all controlled by her.”

    Compared to the billions that the Moons drive to the point of insanity and suicide from perhaps millions of lightyears away while traveling to earth at the same time? They didn’t even appear in the same system as Tau Volantis.

    Their fairly similar, except one kills just by telepathically speaking. All over Tau Volantis people were shooting themselves, or were curled up in a ball murmuring to themselves ‘they are hungry, they are coming’. Even Isaac and Carver were going insane. They were kept from turning into blubbering messes or commiting suicide just by PIS.

    “Well, for resisting methods that are supposed to drive her to insanity, there’s the fact that she resisted Narud”

    Hardly something that would drive her to insanity, infact, I think this would more SUPPORT the fact that the Dimentia given to her by the Moons would affect her seeing how it’d be her own mind fighting itself in a way. Just being nudged on by Dimentia.
    Just by seeing how she reacted to seeing a shapeshifter? something that haunts her and cant be killed would affect her even more.

    “So the ultimate answer is yes, she can resist mental attacks and is also on the telepath level of controlling billions.”

    Technology ment to block her powers, and causing dimentia within a persons mind are two different things.

    so she hasnt shown the ability to block mental attacks on her mind? you cant exactly say that a powerful psyker can block an outside force if they havent done so before.

    “Since when are the stronger SC psykers weak compared to Deadspace?”

    I never said that, I said that SC psykers are ‘fragile’ not ‘weak’. Their minds are fragile because even the slightest break in concentration can be fatal to people around them, or even themselves. Dimentia would affect her concentration, eventually driving her to loose her sanity as the white noise in the back of her mind continued on endlessly.

    “Ok, but what was the furthest distance from Earth?”

    There was no set distance, only that the moons were spread out all across the galaxy in a hibernation till the most recent moon had called to his brothers about the humans.


    “No, they can’t. Necro infestation just rearranges the DNA from the victim organism into Necro DNA…not exactly the same as undergoing many millennia of cell division and natural selection on a cellular level in 10 seconds. Growing appendages and gaining new abilities from dying and being given Necro DNA isn’t the same as or nearly as impressive as independently gaining those abilities yourself which hadn’t existed before within the entire species in 10 seconds. That’s not evolution, that’s just changing a few physical characteristics. ”

    The infector changes DNA. it changes the coding structure of DNA strands to something that the Marker/Moons want it to be. And what is Evolution but DNA changing to support something new so it survives?

    Physical characteristics are very important to evolution. A bird with a certain beak can eat the harder nuts of a tree, while one ment to eat seeds cant survive on the same turf as the other if there are no seeds…
    Just an example. Necromorphs evolve more in ten seconds than a Zerg.

  56. PeteSkizzle June 11, 2013 at 8:59 pm -      #56

    Dementia, not “dimentia”. Kept bugging me. Also necromorphs are weak as shit. They get torn apart by weak-ass rifles.

  57. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 9:06 pm -      #57

    “Uh, how exactly is this a no-limits fallacy? She’s a being with a brain, she thinks, the only difference is that she’s psionic. it can affect her, it affects the mind, implementing the Marker code into the brain.”

    Saying that “it can drive anything insane” is a no limits fallacy since the SC universe was never part of the Dead Space-verse so that statement doesn’t apply to SC. You need something more substantial, and more specific is what he’s saying.

    “Compared to the billions that the Moons drive to the point of insanity and suicide from perhaps millions of lightyears away while traveling to earth at the same time? They didn’t even appear in the same system as Tau Volantis.”

    Again, what’s the big deal? If Kerrigan was into the whole messing with people’s minds instead of just killing them, there’s no doubt in my mind she could do that. She already has better FTL herself than the Moons, and can telepathically communicate with, and control more than the Moons too.

    “Their fairly similar, except one kills just by telepathically speaking. ”

    Proof required.

    “All over Tau Volantis people were shooting themselves, or were curled up in a ball murmuring to themselves ‘they are hungry, they are coming’. Even Isaac and Carver were going insane. They were kept from turning into blubbering messes or commiting suicide just by PIS.”

    And Isaac and Carver just happen to also be multi-block busting psyker-hiveminds?

    “Hardly something that would drive her to insanity”

    Um, if she had no fought Narud or been such a strong telepath (like all those citizens) she would have gone insane. Narud only shapeshifted into 2 people and both were directly related to the biggest conflicts and traumatic memories of her life.
    Not to mention I already talked about resisting psi-screens back in her ghost days which should have caused her to go insane, as well as resisting the influence of planet-busting Xel’naga Amon.

    “infact, I think this would more SUPPORT the fact that the Dimentia given to her by the Moons would affect her seeing how it’d be her own mind fighting itself in a way. Just being nudged on by Dimentia.”

    And who says she can get dimentia? And after she dies, she just resurrects herself. No problem there.

    “Just by seeing how she reacted to seeing a shapeshifter? something that haunts her and cant be killed would affect her even more.”

    Yeah, y’know unless she just mental-blocks it out like she did with Amon’s influence and psi-screen effects.

    “Technology ment to block her powers, and causing dimentia within a persons mind are two different things.”

    Not in the sense we’re talking about. She has to be given dimentia first. How is she going to be given dimentia if she can resist the Moon’s mental attacks? She isn’t going to be given dimentia if she can simply resist the Moon’s will to give it to her and permanently keep the Moon out of her head.

    “so she hasnt shown the ability to block mental attacks on her mind? you cant exactly say that a powerful psyker can block an outside force if they havent done so before.”

    I already brought up 2 instances in which she had.
    Resisting mental blocks, and resisting telepathic influence. Both qualify as mental attacks.

    “I never said that, I said that SC psykers are ‘fragile’ not ‘weak’. Their minds are fragile because even the slightest break in concentration can be fatal to people around them, or even themselves. Dimentia would affect her concentration, eventually driving her to loose her sanity as the white noise in the back of her mind continued on endlessly.”

    You don’t even have proof that Zerg can get diseases, I mean do you want me to pull out the Zerg regeneration quotes? Because she’s more than capable of growing new brain tissue, as well as realizing she has dimentia and then proceeding to kill and revive herself fresh without it, fight the dimentia itself as she fought away the hallucinations of Narud, and on top of all this prevent the Moon from ever giving her dimentia in the first place. There is absolutely no way she would obtain dimentia and it will leave a lasting impact.

    “There was no set distance, only that the moons were spread out all across the galaxy in a hibernation till the most recent moon had called to his brothers about the humans.”

    Ok. Zerg FTL is still faster.

    “The infector changes DNA. it changes the coding structure of DNA strands to something that the Marker/Moons want it to be. And what is Evolution but DNA changing to support something new so it survives?”

    Not the case. First, you haven’t given proof that the Infector does at all what you describe. Second, Evolution is what happens when natural selection occurs over a massive timeframe within a species. The Zerg, perform natural selection on a cellular level, which allows them to evolve within 10 seconds. Simply changing DNA in one quick mix based off of things that already exist within the Necros, is notevolution, it’s just infection. The infection just happens to include altering the physical characteristics of the subject through changes to DNA made right then and there on the spot. You know who else do that? The Zerg during infection, the Flood during infection, just about any parasitic faction you can name does that, and it is not evolution.

    “Physical characteristics are very important to evolution. A bird with a certain beak can eat the harder nuts of a tree, while one ment to eat seeds cant survive on the same turf as the other if there are no seeds…
    Just an example. Necromorphs evolve more in ten seconds than a Zerg.”

    Invalid one at that. Those happen over generations due to natural selection which is integral to evolution. Infectors do not do this. This also, is the developing of characteristics entirely unknown to the species before these mutations occurred. This again, is not the case for the Necros, as they make the same plane infection forms over and over.
    The Zerg evolve, the Necros do not.

  58. Virgil June 11, 2013 at 9:07 pm -      #58

    @Everyone

    Ah, the debate on whether another infection can “infect” another… This realm is quite difficult to debate and such and really bogs it down but is important nonetheless. This was in fact a point to which I conceded the Flood vs Zerg debate as the Flood just couldn’t match the Zerg’s adaptability in that respect (I still think that the Flood infection time in the games is canon but whatever jackn8r!).

    That said I think that the Necromorphs fall into the exact same hole here… The necros can evolve sure but not anywhere near the same level as the Zerg. That and except the huge Necro at the end of Dead Space 3 (Of which we have no info. on how long it took to be created.) the Zerg outclass just about everything… They can make gigantic forms in a relatively short amount of time and they would just steamroll through most necro forms. A huge charge of banelings would leave them VERY weak and with superior air forms they could just sit up in the sky and just launch guys down.

  59. Virgil June 11, 2013 at 9:10 pm -      #59

    @Jackn8r

    Sorry about the double post but I’ve never really been offline. I monitor from the behind the scenes and wait for a match to draw my attention as this one has.

    Totally irrelevant question but has anyone seen TMWTA? He seems to have disappeared in all the matches I’ve been following…

  60. Draco June 11, 2013 at 9:15 pm -      #60

    @Mack
    Please try to read the debate before posting.

    “So to sum it up the Necromorphs cannot mindfuck Zergs by the virus because they will eventually evolve out of it. ”

    Necro virus doesnt mindfuck, it alters DNA and rapidally changes the host. It works against the Zerg virus.

    “They can’t mindfuck Zergs by the marker cos the hive mind is stronger and their units are shit compared to the Zergs”

    Uh… Sentient, mindfucking Moons. And the Markers…
    And the Units are debateable… but i agree the Zerg are more durable than most Necromorphs.

    “Another thing I should mention is that necromorph tissue are EXTREMELY soft. An example is the Pulse Rifle which fires ultra low calibre rounds at hypersonic speed. The round is strong enough to squash flesh and break bones but not strong enough to penetrate ship hulls. The necromorphs as said before are nothing but walking pieces of unguarded meat.”

    Yeah, because hypervelocity rounds that squash on impact are GREAT against Necromorphs. Bullets dont even phase necromorphs unless targeted at the limbs. Pulse rifles cause almost no damage to the upgraded Morphs when they hit the torso. The only reason any ‘die’ are because all of their limbs have been cut off. even then they can reuese the biomass.

    “One MAJOR disadvantage for the necromorphs is that they cannot travel through space easily as they need a host ship to travel. This means that they can only do ground engagements at the enemy”

    As of DS3, they have massively FTL Moons tat can launch spores. besides, this is the DS universe, meaning homefield advantage and possibly thousands of Markers all over human controlled space.

  61. Draco June 11, 2013 at 9:19 pm -      #61

    A rapid mutation of the Zerglings DNA changing their structure? if the two cell groups ment to stop these from happening are changed, then what?

  62. mack006 June 11, 2013 at 9:37 pm -      #62

    @Draco
    LoL, I knew something like that would happen. I was half asleep when I typed that rubbish post up. Oh well, enough debating for today. Gotta go and have a nap now :)

  63. mack006 June 11, 2013 at 9:47 pm -      #63

    One last thing I want to point out. The Markers alter the cell structure not by the use of viruses but instead they send out electromagnetic waves to alter tissue at a cellular level, which then transforms into necromorphs. I wonder if the Zerg can adapt against EM waves because if they don’t then a couple of well placed markers can alter their bodies and turn them into… well I can’t imagine what they would look like.

  64. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 9:57 pm -      #64

    “Ah, the debate on whether another infection can “infect” another… This realm is quite difficult to debate and such and really bogs it down but is important nonetheless. This was in fact a point to which I conceded the Flood vs Zerg debate as the Flood just couldn’t match the Zerg’s adaptability in that respect (I still think that the Flood infection time in the games is canon but whatever jackn8r!).”

    Indeed lol. I think we’ve settled much of the infection discussion here, we’re on a tangent right now discussing what constitutes evolution.

    “They can make gigantic forms in a relatively short amount of time”

    That said, I’ll go ahead an post this quote now:
    Vik fired up a plasma torch and began. Every so often he caught audio from Serj’s console.

    “… larvae are the backbone of the Swarm, the tools necessary to build a zerg army. ‘Biological super-cache’ is an apt categorization for the creatures. They contain the DNA of the entire alien collective. It’s for this reason that they can transform into nearly any zerg subspecies.”

    “No wonder the lab rat wants these things, huh?” Serj nudged Vik’s leg with his boot. “All that info locked inside… must be worth a fortune.”

    Vik nodded absently to appease his friend, hoping he’d eventually get bored of the vids. He didn’t.

    A few hours later, Serj ripped the shades off Vik’s face and shoved the console in front of him. “Gotta check this out.” A collage of vids played across the screen: larvae transforming into mounds of pulsating flesh. The cocoons burst open, and out streamed the monsters Vik had seen on UNN: hydralisks, zerglings, mutalisks, and other grotesque beasts. Creatures of nightmare.

    “Zerg overlords issue psionic commands to larvae, initiating their metamorphosis,” a dull voice droned over the vid. “The duration of the pupal stage is contingent on the complexity of the final organism.”

    Vik glanced at the larvae and startled. They’d turned their long, jagged bodies toward him. Their mandibles clicked. Their spindly legs scraped the floor. Goosebumps prickled over Vik’s flesh.

    “I thought they were just big slugs, y’know?” Serj said. “They’re dangerous.”

    “Haven’t changed yet. Don’t think they will.” Vik looked away from the aliens.

    Serj turned the console toward the larvae, replaying the vids of them transforming. “Yeah, well… Maybe they just need to see. They don’t know how to do it yet.”

    “Cut it out.” Vik kicked his friend in the leg. “You want them to transform?”

    Serj shrugged. “Just seems like a waste. I don’t know… They could be more than that.”

    “Yeah. And then they’d eat us.”

    “Maybe…” Serj drew the words out, dream-like. He settled back against the cage’s fence and thumbed through the vids of the larvae transforming, replaying them over and over again.

    ^Larvae can morph into Zerg strains within a couple seconds.

    “Totally irrelevant question but has anyone seen TMWTA? He seems to have disappeared in all the matches I’ve been following…”

    I’ve seen him around a little bit, but he’s been spending a lot of time of spacebattles recently.

    “Necro virus doesnt mindfuck, it alters DNA and rapidally changes the host. It works against the Zerg virus.”

    He didn’t claim the virus, he claimed the Necromorphs, which AFAIK includes the Moons and such. If it didn’t we wouldn’t have been discussing them.

    “Yeah, because hypervelocity rounds that squash on impact are GREAT against Necromorphs. Bullets dont even phase necromorphs unless targeted at the limbs. Pulse rifles cause almost no damage to the upgraded Morphs when they hit the torso. The only reason any ‘die’ are because all of their limbs have been cut off. even then they can reuese the biomass.”

    This is shenanigans. Hydra spines penetrate Battle Cruiser armor. Banelings explode with 2.67 tons of energy. Ultralisks tank mortars to the face, and have Kaiser Blades larger than most Necromorphs. Roaches spit acid from 250 meters away with viroids in them that neutralize plasma shields and dissolve the target substance molecule by molecule. These are just the ground units.

    “As of DS3, they have massively FTL Moons tat can launch spores. besides, this is the DS universe, meaning homefield advantage and possibly thousands of Markers all over human controlled space.”

    Massive doesn’t cut it when it’s still inferior. I have to admit, homefield advantage is a very big advantage, considering Zerg don’t have access to the hundreds of planets full of resources they currently have.

    “A rapid mutation of the Zerglings DNA changing their structure? if the two cell groups ment to stop these from happening are changed, then what?”

    Sorry, could you rephrase this?

  65. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 10:05 pm -      #65

    “I wonder if the Zerg can adapt against EM waves because if they don’t then a couple of well placed markers can alter their bodies and turn them into… well I can’t imagine what they would look like.”

    As in EM radiation? High levels of nuclear weapon radiation and cosmic radiation help Zerg growth rather than hinder it.
    us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/planet/char
    Nuclear radiation, is also responsible for Torrasques which revive themselves after death.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYpxREJaPMY&feature=youtu.be&t=36m55s
    I don’t think weaker radiation like EM waves are going to have much of an effect.

  66. Draco June 11, 2013 at 10:06 pm -      #66

    “Saying that “it can drive anything insane” is a no limits fallacy since the SC universe was never part of the Dead Space-verse so that statement doesn’t apply to SC. You need something more substantial, and more specific is what he’s saying.”

    All of the prestiques needed for infection and the use of mindfuckery is there. It’s possible, and currently we are debating if they can or not.

    “Again, what’s the big deal? If Kerrigan was into the whole messing with people’s minds instead of just killing them, there’s no doubt in my mind she could do that. She already has better FTL herself than the Moons, and can telepathically communicate with, and control more than the Moons too.”

    I never doubted better FTL. But the Moons are the reason anything Necromorph exists. Meaning however many of them there are they are controlling ALL of them. like Kerrigan, except there are 8 of them.


    www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6hND7HoHhU
    (3:26-3:58)
    the Moons didn’t even have to speak, whatever they did. It just caused everyone at once to loose their damn minds.
    (Isaac has the heaviest plot shield of all time. we dont take PIS into account here)

    “And Isaac and Carver just happen to also be multi-block busting psyker-hiveminds?”

    heaviest… plot shield… ever. We dont take PIS into effect on here.

    “Um, if she had no fought Narud or been such a strong telepath (like all those citizens) she would have gone insane. Narud only shapeshifted into 2 people and both were directly related to the biggest conflicts and traumatic memories of her life.”

    Narod is just a physical shapeshifter no? and when did she resist the psychic influence of Amon besides that little battle they had? thats not resisting a mental influence of another psychic being. thats fighting back against physical psychic attacks.
    the closest thing is the technological thing she had strapped to her head. But thats also not a mental attack from another being… or 8 beings.

    “You don’t even have proof that Zerg can get diseases”

    Dementia affects her brain… if it affects her brain her psionic powers are not going to be doing well with that.

    “Not the case. First, you haven’t given proof that the Infector does at all what you describe.”

    i went to look it up, and i couldn’t seem to find it… my bad about that. I swore i saw it…
    Anyways, if i ever find it i’ll repost it.
    So far what i re-researched was that it was massive mutation on a cellular level. It’s a massive change, and produces enough energy to boil blood.

  67. jackn8r June 11, 2013 at 10:49 pm -      #67

    “All of the prestiques needed for infection and the use of mindfuckery is there. It’s possible, and currently we are debating if they can or not.”

    Exactly. His point was that saying the Marker/Moons can automatically mindfuck Kerrigan because they can do it to others in the DS-verse is a fallacy.

    “I never doubted better FTL. But the Moons are the reason anything Necromorph exists. Meaning however many of them there are they are controlling ALL of them. like Kerrigan, except there are 8 of them.”

    So 8 Moons doing the job 1 Kerrigan is doing? :P

    “heaviest… plot shield… ever. We dont take PIS into effect on here.”

    My point was that we’ve never seen what happens when someone tries to resist the mindfucking without PIS.

    “Narod is just a physical shapeshifter no? and when did she resist the psychic influence of Amon besides that little battle they had? thats not resisting a mental influence of another psychic being. thats fighting back against physical psychic attacks.
    the closest thing is the technological thing she had strapped to her head. But thats also not a mental attack from another being… or 8 beings.”

    Yes, Narud is a physical shapeshifter. Actually the link I gave when she was talking about Amon’s influence was referring to after the death of the Amon, the influence it had over the Overmind was passed down to Kerrigan after she became the Queen of Blades. I concede on the point about Amon’s influence as it was the Xel’naga artifact that cleansed Kerrigan.
    The point about the psi-screens still stands though. Neural inhibitors are another example of psychic-dampening tools that Kerrigan has resisted.
    We don’t know how much exactly Kerrigan can resist, there aren’t many TKs in SC that rival her and have fought her.
    How about another question: How much can the Moons resist? Kerrigan does have mind control after all, and has mind controlled a Dark Templar matriarch.

    “Dementia affects her brain… if it affects her brain her psionic powers are not going to be doing well with that.”

    I meant you don’t have proof that Kerrigan can even get Dementia since the Zerg have never in the history of their existence gotten a mental illness in any individual organism, out of the countless billions that have existed.

    “i went to look it up, and i couldn’t seem to find it… my bad about that. I swore i saw it…
    Anyways, if i ever find it i’ll repost it.
    So far what i re-researched was that it was massive mutation on a cellular level. It’s a massive change, and produces enough energy to boil blood.”

    Haven’t we been over this? Zerg immune system *looks at A cells, B cells, and timeframe quote* doesn’t let it happen.

  68. DragonRebornSTOMP June 11, 2013 at 11:11 pm -      #68

    Whoa Whoa Whoa, Necromorphs have no air units? They need to steal ships for FTL, except the moons? Without the Protoss burning worlds out from under them, and without PIS, the Zerg could spam dozens of Leviathans and hunt down Cthulhu’s testicles. No testicles, no Necromorphs. Since the Brethren Moons are slow as fuck compared to the Zerg, there would be next to nothing the Moons could do about it. With Kerrigan and the hive mind, the Leviathans would meet next to no resistance. The EM radiation wouldn’t do much, as previously stated.

  69. Draco June 11, 2013 at 11:20 pm -      #69

    “How about another question: How much can the Moons resist? Kerrigan does have mind control after all, and has mind controlled a Dark Templar matriarch.”

    there are no other psionic or mentally powerful beings in the DS universe. They are the ‘hiveminds’ of the necromorphs but they dont have any feats for resisting control except that they are controllers.

    could Kerrigan even control 8 or so massive sentient moons with immense mental powers?

    “Exactly. His point was that saying the Marker/Moons can automatically mindfuck Kerrigan because they can do it to others in the DS-verse is a fallacy.”

    i just… dont see how that’s a fallacy… at all… she was human before, she’s just a human with psionic powers… Still human, but now Queen of blades. She has a brain. so i dont see the fallacy?

    “So 8 Moons doing the job 1 Kerrigan is doing?”

    Across an entire Galaxy… rather than a single star system…

    :P

    “My point was that we’ve never seen what happens when someone tries to resist the mindfucking without PIS.”

    Because they couldn’t, their mere appearence in their head caused massive suicides across tau volantis.

    Even if the Zerg were to overwhelm planets controlled by necromorphs, they’d have the problem of accidentally triggering a Convergance event with the Markers on the planet. if too much biomass is in close proximity to a Marker it triggers a life-wiping event on the planet that absorbs all biomass on the planet along with parts of the planet itself and throws it all into atmosphere where the moon is created. That alone will work a few times should kerrigan throw too many forces at one place.

    “I meant you don’t have proof that Kerrigan can even get Dementia since the Zerg have never in the history of their existence gotten a mental illness in any individual organism, out of the countless billions that have existed.”

    it wasnt forced on them was it?


    this is current incarnation right? is the Zerg in Current Incarnation?

  70. PrimusxPilus June 11, 2013 at 11:20 pm -      #70

    So Kerrigan WTFPWNing Protoss and keeping them out of her head, battling Xel’naga, twilight archons, etc are invalid because the moons Fuck up VANILLA HUMANS? Awesome

  71. Draco June 11, 2013 at 11:30 pm -      #71

    physical attacks from psionics are not the same as mental, but keeping protoss out of her head…
    perhaps you could provide the instance where she did?

  72. Draco June 11, 2013 at 11:34 pm -      #72

    And the Moons can defend themselves, those tentacles arent for show… and they cand spawn Necromorphs and launch them through pods.

  73. OberHerr June 11, 2013 at 11:57 pm -      #73

    Plus the mindfuckery. I mean, if they can do all that crazy shit from lightyears away, imagine what they can do when your right on top of them.

  74. OberHerr June 12, 2013 at 12:02 am -      #74

    Also, we can bring up the Ubermorph. It was virtually indestructible because it regenerated so fast. The only way it was destroyed was by the reactor of the ship it was on exploding.

    And thats not the highest form of Necromorph. The moons are supposed to be. So it stands to reason that they would have crazy regeneration too. Basically, their gonna be tough to take down. it’s possible you couldn’t even kill them unless you destroyed them all in one blow.

  75. mack006 June 12, 2013 at 12:09 am -      #75

    I don’t think the necromorphs will use the Brethern Moons as its main air units. It is too risky as no one will be dumb enough to send their own leaders to a battle where they will be most likely be targeted and destroyed easily. I mean the moons are HUGE and will provide an easy target for the Zerg. That plus the fact they have no smaller fighters in space makes the moons a sitting duck against several Leviathans and if a moon does get destroyed then… well lets just say maybe the link towards the necro hive mind gets broken then they all go feral and derpy

  76. Draco June 12, 2013 at 12:09 am -      #76

    A moon that wasnt fully created was killed thanks to alien technology. Striking the ‘face’ with Markers fired at unknown speeds and then having the inside of its ‘mouth’ ripped out, then finally dieing when the machine on Tau volantis crashed the moon into the planet. killing it.

  77. Draco June 12, 2013 at 12:12 am -      #77

    Without the moons the Necromorphs are reduced to a DNA soup. A puddle of Flesh.

    But the Zerg have no moon-busting weapons AFAIK. meaning even if they couldn’t mindfuck current kerrigan, the Zerg cant really kill the moons.

  78. Draco June 12, 2013 at 12:15 am -      #78

    sorry for the triple post…

    But the Moons wouldn’t really care, they’d want to consume all life. All 8 went to earth, and the Humans have planet crackers.
    They’d suck in nearly anything they could get, absorbing it into their biomass and making them bigger and stronger.

  79. mack006 June 12, 2013 at 12:15 am -      #79

    @Ober
    The ubermorph and the hunter are the exact same thing in Dead Space right? Well the hunter was destroyed in the original Dead Space by the use of fire from a space shuttle. That works because it destroys the body faster then it could regenerate so at the end there was nothing left of the Hunter. I can imagine the Zerg achieving a similar feat using a few Roaches and focus firing it’s acid at the Ubermorph/Hunter until it is completely dissolved. Something that wouldn’t be too hard as the Hunter/Ubermorph is an unarmored walking piece of meat.

  80. OberHerr June 12, 2013 at 12:17 am -      #80

    Basically, it had to be frozen, get its proverbial balls ripped out, and then chucked into a planet to get destroyed.

  81. OberHerr June 12, 2013 at 12:23 am -      #81

    @Ober
    “The ubermorph and the hunter are the exact same thing in Dead Space right? Well the hunter was destroyed in the original Dead Space by the use of fire from a space shuttle. That works because it destroys the body faster then it could regenerate so at the end there was nothing left of the Hunter. I can imagine the Zerg achieving a similar feat using a few Roaches and focus firing it’s acid at the Ubermorph/Hunter until it is completely dissolved. Something that wouldn’t be too hard as the Hunter/Ubermorph is an unarmored walking piece of meat.”

    Nope. They just look similar. Ubermorph would either be unaffected by the acid, or just regenerate fast enough for it not to matter.

  82. Solid Joe June 12, 2013 at 1:14 am -      #82

    “Why is the picture for Zerg a Dark Templar?”
    This aint AC bro

  83. mack006 June 12, 2013 at 1:17 am -      #83

    @Ober
    Have you even played Dead Space? The hunter was NOT thrown into a planet to be destroyed! It was destroyed by the shuttle fires when Isaac activated them. Here is the video of how it died. Just skip to 3:43
    m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=lb2skr1nXOs&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dlb2skr1nXOs

    The übermorph and hunter are EXACTLY the same. They have the same time taken to regenerate (crawling on the floor before spasming and then regenerating) and even the same fucking animations. The death scene is even the same too. What makes you think they are different? There wasn’t even acid in Dead Space that you can use against the Ubermorph! Just because they look different doesn’t mean they are different.

  84. mack006 June 12, 2013 at 1:20 am -      #84

    *and THEY even have the same fucking animations*
    Proof reading, I should really start to get into the habit of it :/

  85. Draco June 12, 2013 at 1:32 am -      #85

    @Mack
    He was talking about the moon in that one where it was thrown into a planet.

    Also, in DS1 it was an experiment by a Unitologist. He created the Hunter, and in DS2 and 3 they became more common and naturally occuring.

    Sure, they are recurring nemies that act similarly, but they are not the same enemy at all.


    Those in DS3 could even walk through the same fires that the Hunter in 1 couldn’t survive. Meaning they got an extreme upgraded from 1 even when naturally occuring.

  86. DragonRebornSTOMP June 12, 2013 at 1:48 am -      #86

    I’m just enjoying contemplating what would happen if the CT’s tried to assimilate the Protoss. Hehe. The Necros would be reduced to cosmic skid marks

  87. Draco June 12, 2013 at 1:57 am -      #87

    @Reborn
    And… the point of that is?

  88. DragonRebornSTOMP June 12, 2013 at 1:59 am -      #88

    I’m just saiyan.

  89. mack006 June 12, 2013 at 2:15 am -      #89

    @Draco Malfoy
    Yeah I know, in dead space 3 those regenerators can withstand the shuttle fires (different shuttle model maybe?) yet they cannot withstand blasts from a frakking turret. Game logic like I said before, is the best logic ever!

  90. Draco June 12, 2013 at 2:29 am -      #90

    @mack
    Aahh, hiiss… the eventual ‘draco malfoy’ deal.

    my name isn’t based off of malfoy, but of the dragon from Dragonheart.

    It wasn’t the turret, it was the grinders and I believe that some came back even after going through the grinders… if it wasn’t the grinders then the rounds disintegrated them on contact.
    Gamr logic, lol…

    It’s likely an older shuttle model since the SK1P was on the very old warship according to the logs. But still, they got a severe upgrade to their durability.

  91. Neon Lord June 12, 2013 at 3:45 am -      #91

    Infection vs Infection matchups to me seem somewhat messy to debate. It would probably be more sensical to do infection competitions where one side tries to out-infect a specific target than the other.

    Btw, since nobody has mentioned it, would the fact that the Zerg are invading the Dead Space space in the battle scenario change anything?

  92. mack006 June 12, 2013 at 4:10 am -      #92

    @Draco MALFOY
    ‘He was talking about the moon in that one where it was thrown into a planet.’

    lol I didn’t understand what that mean’t at first as the Hunter was never thrown onto a planet. I was like “What? The hunter was never thrown onto a planet!” I finally realised that you mean’t the Ubermorph. I figured it out when I was in the middle of a shower! LOL!

    Well anyway a re entry from space can kill almost any unarmored thing. It is just overkill man! Reminds me of the Hung, Drawn and Quatered trick to criminals back then. It is completely unecessary as beheading (which is also part of the execution) would have done same thing as well!

    The re entry death is just like the Shuttle fire because:
    1. It destroys the Ubermorphs body faster then it could rebuild it
    2. There is no escape
    3. It is also extremely hot
    4. It leaves no traces of it’s biomass behind so it cannot grow back
    So either way it would die as long as all of it’s body is destroyed. In other words GANGBANG WiTH ROACHES AND ACID!!!

    Oh and Draco are you new? If so then WELCOME TO FACTPILE FRIEND!

    If you are some very ancient veteran then, welcome back old friend. It is a huge honor to meet you once again and to have you debating with us once more.

    If you just some present day factpiler who changed his/her name then GTFO and leave this thread! The Zerg wins!!! >:)

    Oh and thumbs up if any of you want to punch that brat Draco Malfoy in the face cos he is such a dick. :)

  93. Draco June 12, 2013 at 4:24 am -      #93

    I never doubted the ubermorph could be killed by acids… but now those creatures can be mass produced, not sure how, but they can.

    Only the moons been thrown into a planet. None of the ubermorphs have ever been outside of where they can stand on their two legs.


    Also… I’ve been here for many years and never changed my name. But i’d hardly call myself a veteren. I’ve been in a few instense debates here and there but nothing flashy…

    I’m just your average factpiler who came from long ago and decided to stick around.


    Ugh… malfoy… -_-

  94. Namer June 12, 2013 at 4:41 am -      #94

    @Above
    That’s just juvenile, adding the name of a character from a book onto that of a character from a completely different film and using it to mock.

    Re-entry=/=Shuttle Fire. I don’t want to have to elaborate. And what proof is there that Roach and Baneling acid would destroy it ? I’d rather put it up with Ultralisks and Brutalisks. Even then it’ll be outnumbered, several Ultralisks to one Hunter. Haven’t played 3 yet, so I can’t say the same for the Ubermorph.

    Instead of getting down to Infection or Psychics can we talk about who’d win if neither could infect or psychically affect the other, then debate those and tack on the results ?

  95. mack006 June 12, 2013 at 5:14 am -      #95

    @namer
    ‘That’s just juvenile, adding the name of a character from a book onto that of a character from a completely different film and using it to mock.’

    heh heh, I know I am a bit childish sometimes but I just can’t help it. When I see something funny I just have to point it and LMAO, you know, that feeling you had back then when you were a child. I just still have it intact for some retarded reason.

    An ultralisk or brutalisk cannot destroy the body all at once. It uses it’s blades and strength to tear things apart so that means it will be completely ineffective as the Ubermorph/Hunter will just regenerate lost body parts. Have you seen the latest Starcraft trailer? The Ultralisk is like the size of a fricking bio-titan! Squishing it like a pancake won’t help either as it still leaves behind parts of it’s body to regenerate from.

    A roach on the other hand spits out a highly corrosive acid that can melt through walls and metal. A continuous stream can corrode through it’s flesh faster then it could be replaced (the Ubermorph/Hunter takes several seconds to regenerate lost limbs, just watch the videos). eventually nothing will be left for it to regenerate from. It also leaves behind no traces of any body parts for it to regenerate from.

  96. mack006 June 12, 2013 at 5:17 am -      #96

    @namer
    Oh and namer, at least watch some gameplay footage before you debate. It isn’t that reliable but can show you a bit of their capabilities.

  97. jackn8r June 12, 2013 at 7:49 am -      #97

    “there are no other psionic or mentally powerful beings in the DS universe. They are the ‘hiveminds’ of the necromorphs but they dont have any feats for resisting control except that they are controllers.”

    The same exact thing can be stated about Kerrigan. She is the hivemind, and she’s (supposed to be) the strongest shown TK in SC. She also has no feat resisting mental attacks. She does however have a couple feats resisting control (psi-screens and neural inhibitors.)
    We can’t debate this any further. Both are incredibly similar and we have a lack of feats for each.

    “could Kerrigan even control 8 or so massive sentient moons with immense mental powers?”

    Considering that it took 8 Moons to do the job that she did alone. Definitely 1 or maybe a few at a time. We don’t have enough feats to say for certain whether she could mind control all at once.
    Anyway, like I said this isn’t debateable, both sides are even, and there’s a distinct lack of deciding feats.

    “i just… dont see how that’s a fallacy… at all… she was human before, she’s just a human with psionic powers… Still human, but now Queen of blades. She has a brain. so i dont see the fallacy?”

    Because it’s extrapolating that kind of statement from the DS-verse and applying it to the SC-verse. The statement being that Moons can automatically induce dementia to anything in the SC-verse.
    It’s the same as if I stated in StarCraft Kerrigan is said to be the strongest TK ever. Therefore, she’s stronger than anything in DS.
    Same fallacy.

    “Across an entire Galaxy… rather than a single star system…”

    The Koprulu Sector is larger than a star system. It’s the whole outer edge of the Milky Way (no actual size is ever specified.) She has however controlled Zerg fleets who traveled to the Distant Shadowed World, so she does have control ranging across an entire galaxy.

    “Even if the Zerg were to overwhelm planets controlled by necromorphs, they’d have the problem of accidentally triggering a Convergance event with the Markers on the planet. if too much biomass is in close proximity to a Marker it triggers a life-wiping event on the planet that absorbs all biomass on the planet along with parts of the planet itself and throws it all into atmosphere where the moon is created. That alone will work a few times should kerrigan throw too many forces at one place.”

    That’s perfect. Keep throwing expendable Zerg at a planet until the Marker kills all the Necros for them. Even better.

    “it wasnt forced on them was it?”

    Not that I’m aware of unless you include experimentation, which debatably should count.

    “this is current incarnation right? is the Zerg in Current Incarnation?”

    Yes. And current Zerg is also the strongest incarnation.

    “physical attacks from psionics are not the same as mental, but keeping protoss out of her head…
    perhaps you could provide the instance where she did?”

    ….He was describing mental. As far as I’m aware Kerrigan has never battled with a Twilight Archon, nor a Xel’naga, though that is basically the entire plot of LotV coming out (hopefully) either next year or 2015.

    “And the Moons can defend themselves, those tentacles arent for show… and they cand spawn Necromorphs and launch them through pods.”

    You still haven’t explained why this even matters. Zerg launch pods too. And a lot more often than Necros.

    “Plus the mindfuckery. I mean, if they can do all that crazy shit from lightyears away, imagine what they can do when your right on top of them.”

    Same can be said for Kerrigan, who is also shown to simply fry minds rather than having to drive them insane to get the job done.

    “Also, we can bring up the Ubermorph. It was virtually indestructible because it regenerated so fast. The only way it was destroyed was by the reactor of the ship it was on exploding.”

    Was? Are you saying that it isn’t around anymore? If it’s dead, you can’t use it.

    “The moons are supposed to be. So it stands to reason that they would have crazy regeneration too. ”

    Sure it does, but there’s still no proof of Moons regenerating anything, unlike Kerrigan who grows new appendages in seconds.

    ” it’s possible you couldn’t even kill them unless you destroyed them all in one blow.”

    Prove it.

    “A moon that wasnt fully created was killed thanks to alien technology. Striking the ‘face’ with Markers fired at unknown speeds and then having the inside of its ‘mouth’ ripped out, then finally dieing when the machine on Tau volantis crashed the moon into the planet. killing it.”

    Good to know. Moons can die to physical trauma. That makes things significantly easier.

    “But the Zerg have no moon-busting weapons AFAIK. meaning even if they couldn’t mindfuck current kerrigan, the Zerg cant really kill the moons.”

    Um, the Zerg have FLEETS of Leviathans which are the size of the moons.

    “But the Moons wouldn’t really care, they’d want to consume all life. All 8 went to earth, and the Humans have planet crackers.
    They’d suck in nearly anything they could get, absorbing it into their biomass and making them bigger and stronger.”

    So?

    “Nope. They just look similar. Ubermorph would either be unaffected by the acid, or just regenerate fast enough for it not to matter.”

    Prove it. Zerg magic acid neutralizes plasma shields, is filled with pathogens, and tears things apart molecule by molecule. Not to mention a single baneling explodes with nearly 3 tons of tnt.

    “This aint AC bro”

    It is SC bro.

    “Infection vs Infection matchups to me seem somewhat messy to debate. It would probably be more sensical to do infection competitions where one side tries to out-infect a specific target than the other.”

    Except the methods of infection are entirely different, so we can actually discuss it.

    “Btw, since nobody has mentioned it, would the fact that the Zerg are invading the Dead Space space in the battle scenario change anything?”

    Yes. It’s actually a huge nerf to the Zerg since they don’t have any planets with resources to start the match out with, considering they have hundreds in SC.

    “Re-entry=/=Shuttle Fire. I don’t want to have to elaborate. And what proof is there that Roach and Baneling acid would destroy it ? I’d rather put it up with Ultralisks and Brutalisks. Even then it’ll be outnumbered, several Ultralisks to one Hunter. Haven’t played 3 yet, so I can’t say the same for the Ubermorph.”

    Because roaches and banelings are sufficient enough? Roaches spit molecular bond dissolving pathogen infested plasma shield neutralizing magic acid from 250 meters away. A single baneling explodes with 2.67 tons of tnt. Here’s 1 ton for reference:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAYVMXYYAp4

    “Instead of getting down to Infection or Psychics can we talk about who’d win if neither could infect or psychically affect the other, then debate those and tack on the results ?”

    Well, there’s only 3 things to debate here. Infection has been settled pretty much. Necros can’t infect Zerg, and Zerg really have no need to infect Necros anyway. Now before physical aspects are discussed we’ve been drawn into the TK argument. Seeing as neither side has an advantage here, I’m perfectly fine with moving onto the third part to this which is the physical part of this match.

  98. DragonRebornSTOMP June 12, 2013 at 1:19 pm -      #98

    Pure physical force, the Zerg stomp. The Necros have no ace up there sleeve to help against Zerg flying units, and Ultralisk+roach or Baneling= fucked Ubermorph. They have other combos or even individual units to defeat the Necros strongest unit, and fleets of Leviathans to take down the Brethren Moons.

  99. jackn8r June 12, 2013 at 1:45 pm -      #99

    Here’s all my sources for everything:



    youtu.be/_NVN1cKUdQM?t=6m22s
    Here’s a display of all the pods Zerg use to launch invasions. These pods exist just to survive re-entry, and this shows how many hundreds are launched at once.

    i.imgur.com/YcS9pct.jpg
    This isn’t even a single invasion force’s worth of Leviathans. Not even an entire brood invasion force at that. The whole swarm is going to have tons of these.

    Quote from Q&A 13 on Kerrigan’s coming back to life:
    Crota: Another Question. We found out you can actually lose Kerrigan, but all of a sudden the mission doesn’t stop. Is there lore based upon or is that something that is going to be disabled for Brutal, and say Brutal is the true lore?

    Dustin Browder: No, we feel that Kerrigan’s revival is a natural part of her abilities as the Queen of Blades. That’s something she can develop as she regains her power within the Swarm. We saw this throughout the last mission in Wings of Liberty. The killing of Kerrigan is a little bit more challenging than just destroying her mortal form, that you have to do maybe a lot more than that ultimately to wipe her out. And so we’ve brought this mechanic forward. Obviously it helps us a lot with the campaign, but it is part of the experience, of the game, part of the lore.

    Crota: So, how would one kill Kerrigan? You said that the entire Protoss race wants to kill Kerrigan. How would one kill Kerrigan?

    Dustin Browder: That’s something we haven’t revealed yet, what you would do to kill Kerrigan. I could hypothesize with you ways that you could potentially do that, but I imagine it would involve the destruction of her hatchery, all nearby hatcheries, and her, all at the same time, in a place where her consciousness could not really get back to any place where she can revitalize herself and continue forward.

    Physical durability:
    She jumped through a Viking.
    youtu.be/InPvOiXzGx0?t=5m24s

    It takes a couple seconds for Larvae to morph:
    Vik fired up a plasma torch and began. Every so often he caught audio from Serj’s console.

    “… larvae are the backbone of the Swarm, the tools necessary to build a zerg army. ‘Biological super-cache’ is an apt categorization for the creatures. They contain the DNA of the entire alien collective. It’s for this reason that they can transform into nearly any zerg subspecies.”

    “No wonder the lab rat wants these things, huh?” Serj nudged Vik’s leg with his boot. “All that info locked inside… must be worth a fortune.”

    Vik nodded absently to appease his friend, hoping he’d eventually get bored of the vids. He didn’t.

    A few hours later, Serj ripped the shades off Vik’s face and shoved the console in front of him. “Gotta check this out.” A collage of vids played across the screen: larvae transforming into mounds of pulsating flesh. The cocoons burst open, and out streamed the monsters Vik had seen on UNN: hydralisks, zerglings, mutalisks, and other grotesque beasts. Creatures of nightmare.

    “Zerg overlords issue psionic commands to larvae, initiating their metamorphosis,” a dull voice droned over the vid. “The duration of the pupal stage is contingent on the complexity of the final organism.”

    Vik glanced at the larvae and startled. They’d turned their long, jagged bodies toward him. Their mandibles clicked. Their spindly legs scraped the floor. Goosebumps prickled over Vik’s flesh.

    “I thought they were just big slugs, y’know?” Serj said. “They’re dangerous.”

    “Haven’t changed yet. Don’t think they will.” Vik looked away from the aliens.

    Serj turned the console toward the larvae, replaying the vids of them transforming. “Yeah, well… Maybe they just need to see. They don’t know how to do it yet.”

    “Cut it out.” Vik kicked his friend in the leg. “You want them to transform?”

    Serj shrugged. “Just seems like a waste. I don’t know… They could be more than that.”

    “Yeah. And then they’d eat us.”

    “Maybe…” Serj drew the words out, dream-like. He settled back against the cage’s fence and thumbed through the vids of the larvae transforming, replaying them over and over again.
    -In the Blood

    It takes a drone a couple seconds to become an entire hatchery:
    desmond.imageshack.us/Himg23/scaled.php?server=23&filename=zergdronetohacthery2.jpg&res=landing

    A single hatchery can produce hundreds of units within a day:
    While many Queens had landed with the arrival of Kukulkan Brood, this one had remained in the Hatchery established at Rastin’s homestead. The only purpose of this place was to spawn larvae by the hundreds, each of which would evolve into one of the various minions.

    […]

    The larvae continued to mutate from spiny grubs into Zerglings, Hydralisks, even mammoth-sized Ultralisks. Newborn flying-dragon Mutalisks took to the skies, ready to launch aerial attacks with hurled acid.

    And there was something new. The Queen, following her Zerg instincts, had absorbed the DNA of the large blue-furred dog that had been infested here. The Zerg considered the ferocious animal a potential candidate for an experimental new strain of minion.
    -Shadow of the Xel’naga

    HOTS era Ultralisk scaling-22 meters:
    img153.imageshack.us/img153/4438/ultralisksiegetankscale.png

    Kerrigan and Leviathans can create wormholes:
    Question: Do overlords move at the speed of light? How exactly do the Zerg travel throughout the galaxy?

    Answer: In the past the Overmind created wormholes that the Swarm could use to move rapidly about the galaxy. After its death, Kerrigan was able to do the same thing. At some point between the events of BW and Wings, she added leviathans to the Swarm, huge spacefaring creatures able to carry countless Zerg within them and bend space, creating wormholes that let them travel immense distances quickly.
    -Q&A

    Every Zerg organism has the genetic coding for every strain of Zerg:
    At cellular level, the sample shown strains of every known zerg creatures – and many other strains that I do not recognize. It will take a while to map it all, but I’ve already begun extracting data from an ultralisk cell, and I found a spore crawler cell that may yield data on its instinctive threat-recognition routines.”
    -Stetmanns Logs

    Zerg can assimilate an organism into the entire swarms’ DNA in hours. This is similar for example to me eating an apple. An hour later the entire Earth’s population had apple DNA in their cells:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSyF8lVJrpU&feature=youtu.be&t=37m

    Decentralized nervous system:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSyF8lVJrpU&feature=youtu.be&t=1m31s
    The Zerg assimilated mitoscarab DNA/essence.

    Torrasque revival:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYpxREJaPMY&feature=youtu.be&t=36m55s

    Ultralisk Carapce save for joints isn’t even scratched by continuous hypersonic gauss rifle fire from 28 marines:
    Twenty-Nine Marines were hammering an Ultralisk with their weapons.

    It didn’t damage the carapace straight on, only hits to the joints or cracks in the carapace did any damage.
    -The Great One

    Ultralisk cutting down a jungle while running:
    The scientists, or cultists, or whatever, ran like hell. Torch Seven moved like a single organism, striking and moving and also running like hell into the thicker underbrush.

    This time the ultralisk came after them, and after us. Its blades scythed through the jungle, mowing down great swaths of trees and undergrowth as it charged after the cultists. It caught one of them and paused, tearing its victim into more pieces than I could count. The air around it was a storm of leaves and blood, and flowers torn loose and catching filtered sunlight through the jungle canopy. We held our fire for fear of taking down too many of the scientists, but if I had it to do over again, I’d mow them right down.

    Experimentation and messing with dead Zerg doesn’t work:
    The primary purpose of life was to survive. And most life survived by eating other life. The zerg were the most pernicious and hungry life-forms the protoss had ever encountered. They had come to the Koprulu sector specifically to destroy the protoss. And now, as the Swarm continued to expand throughout the sector, the situation was approaching the tipping point.

    The danger was inherent in the zerg genome. It existed by taking other life-forms into itself, assimilating their strengths. This was how the Queen of Blades had been created. And the result was an even stronger and more dangerous zerg hive mind—one that was now recognized as the most critical threat in recent protoss history.

    The pervasive control of the Queen of Blades extended throughout all zerg infestations. This made it perilous to isolate and study any form of the zerg biology. In fact, any attempt to study the zerg would alert her to the activity. She sometimes manipulated or thwarted experiments, and she had often attempted to subvert the experimenters.

    And apparently, distance was not a limiting factor.

    This colony here… it had to be obliterated.
    -In the Dark

    Infection also doesn’t work on live Zerg:
    The zerg sample has developed an ocular organ. Will limbs be next? There is a basic dichotomy to zerg cell reproduction. Type A cells throw off seemingly random mutations. Type B cells hunt down these mutations and destroy them. It’s survival of the fittest on the cellular level. Successful mutations thrive.
    -Stetmann’s Logs

    Mutas can smell a drop of blood over a mile away:
    Mutas are born to frenzy. Frenzy for food, frenzy to spread. Frenzy for blood. A mutalisk can smell a single drop of blood on the wind two klicks away.”
    -Frenzy

    Hydra spines pierce neosteel:
    A dozen Hydralisks burrowed up from beneath the ground. Before the Battlecruiser captain and the Wraith pilots could ascend out of range, the Hydralisks had lashed out with wave after wave of penetrating needle spines that pierced the Battlecruiser’s hull and shredded its engines.
    -Shadow of the Xel’naga

    Kerrigan frying a mind:
    A single glance fried that trooper’s mind, and
    she was already looking for a third as he swayed and
    fell, blood leaking from his eyes and ears.

    -Queen of Blades

    Nova leveling 4 blocks:
    “The TPF had already cordoned off a four-block radius surrounding the skyscraper. When Mal went through the cordon, he saw why: There were bodies everywhere. Not a single sign of trauma on any of them. Also damage consistent with a major explosion, but without any of the signs. No burn marks, no scorching, no evidence of any kind of explosive agent. Plenty of broken glass, metal, plastic, and wood, though.”
    -Ghost: Nova

    Kerrigan reacting to a hypersonic projectiles by freezing them in the air, and shooting the rounds back:
    “You’ll never make it out of here alive, bitch!” one
    of the troopers shouted, firing his gauss rifle on full
    auto into the approaching brood. Several zerg were 96 AARON ROSENBERG
    hit, and two fell with steel spikes through their throat
    and eyes.
    “See?” another trooper bellowed, laughing as he
    swung his weapon around to fire upon them. “They
    ain’t so tough!” He let loose a barrage and more zerg
    died. “These critters bleed just like anybody else!” he
    shouted, and several of his comrades cheered.
    Kerrigan had not been hit, however. A chill raced
    up his spine as he saw why. One of the troopers aimed
    at her and fired, a cluster of iron spikes racing toward
    her. She raised one hand and the spikes simply
    stopped in midair, slamming to a quivering halt as if
    they’d run into a wall. A second gesture and the
    spikes spun about and leaped toward the trooper,
    punching him into a wall from the impact. The spikes
    pierced not only the man but the wall behind him,
    and his body was left hanging there as the rifle slipped
    from his dead hands.

    -Queen of Blades

    Dead Zerg tissue tries to escape experimentation:
    The sample is trying to escape. I’ve detected several new acids in the nutrient solution. Over time, they will crack the tank.
    -Stetmanns Logs

    Acid neutralizing plasma shields:
    The explosion hurtled Iaalu back into the relay hub. Flailing his arms, he hooked an elbow around a cable to keep from rebounding. But that didn’t screen him from being drenched in the mutalisk’s blood. The vile acidic fluid neutralized his defensive shields and began eating through his radiation suit. He quickly unclasped its front shell and wriggled out of it, using the leggings to wipe the slime off his helmet.

    A pale glow welcomed him. Floating like a blue dwarf amid constellations of blood droplets was the crystal matrix.

    Iaalu reached through the red cloud and snatched the crystal without considering the harm to himself. Acid sizzled on his skin, permeating to the flesh beneath. His muscles cooked; cells vaporized. The agony was excruciating. Uhn dara ma’nakai. Uhn dara ma’nakai. If he could get the engines online, he would not suffer long. Deprived of a protective radiation suit, he would be battered into peaceful oblivion by the spent ions bouncing around.
    -Carrier

    Acid is full of viroid pathogens which infect the nervous system:
    Lee squeezed his hand in return. “Yeah. I know.” She turned to the medics, and gestured at Brach’s leg. “Now listen, this is a roach hit. The acid contains viroids that propagate through the nervous system, and a standard nanoscab just exacerbates the process. The only way to neutralize infection is put the whole leg in an alkali bath, shoot it up with bacteriophage virals, then clean and assess.” She paused. “But honestly, you’ll probably still have to amputate.
    -Acid Burns

    Roaches spit acid from 250 meters away:
    he zerg column came within a quarter klick of the comms dish, and the front row rose up to unleash blasts of lurid green acid from their mouths. As they finished, the row behind them rose up and did the same. Thirty seconds later, the dish installation was a smoking pile of molten neosteel.
    -Acid Burns

    Zerg acid dissolves things by breaking down tthe molecular binding:
    Lee waited, powerless and impotent as the roach acid slowly broke down the base walls, molecule by molecule. Section 4D was falling fast.
    -Acid Burns

  100. jackn8r June 12, 2013 at 1:49 pm -      #100

    The quote for the shooting at an Ultralisk should be:
    I think I’m the only man in the platoon who hasn’t been brain-panned. The guys let me hear about it all the time, like I joined the marines to slum with lowlifes. One time, we were on Mar Sara, and I started talking about the history, just to kill time. The unit decided I was a professor because I read something other than a weapons manual once. Now they’re like a bunch of kids sometimes. Tell us this, tell us that, what’s this, where does this come from.

    I don’t mind. Long as they still listen when I give them orders. And they do. There’s twenty-seven of them and one of me, but every man in Torch Seven knows who’s in charge. Sergeant Doakes is fekking in charge: that’s who.
    —————————————–
    Then something else happened that didn’t make sense until later. One of my men went into full-on freakout. Started screaming out coordinates that didn’t make any sense, racked his gauss, and went tear-assing across the clearing in the direction of the sound. He was saying something about gods, but I don’t know which gods he meant.

    I also think he said the words Great One, but at the time I didn’t know why.

    And I didn’t have time to think about it because of the ultralisk that came tearing out of the jungle, right into the middle of our formation.

    If you’ve never seen an ultralisk… it’s bigger than a goddamn tank, and louder, and faster. Tall as four marines in full armor, and long enough that in the jungle you can be fighting the front end before you can even see the back of it coming out of the bush. It’s got two pairs of scythes attached where wings might be on a dragon. They’re called kaiser blades; I don’t know why, but I’ve seen what they can do. They sweep through marine battle armor like it’s tinfoil. You can unload a C-14 at an ultralisk until the barrel melts, and you’ll only make it mad. Correction: madder. They’re already mad. Ultralisks get out of bed mad and hungry. When they’re done slashing you to bits, they stomp on the pieces of you before you’re all the way dead.

    This was my first time seeing one. I’d done all the simulations and seen all the files, but none of it does justice to the presence of the thing. Your first thought when you see an ultralisk is, There’s no way I can kill this thing.

    We hit it with everything we had, and it didn’t even slow down. While we fired, I was shouting orders, getting Torch Seven to what cover there was, and trying like hell to figure out how you fought something like that with small arms in open ground. The answer is you don’t.

    Singh lost his legs and then his head before the ultralisk was all the way out into the clearing. Morrison was next, spiked on the tip of one of the blades and flung into the underbrush with his armor opened up and him spilling out of it. Then I lost track of specifics. Torch Seven took thirty percent casualties before their training asserted itself and they formed up in the only way that made sense: a covering-fire, get-the-hell-out retreat. We backed straight up the ravine until it narrowed enough that the ultralisk could barely squeeze through. It stopped, and we kept firing, starting to do some damage as a spike here and there found a joint or a crack in its carapace.

    Then it backed out of the ravine into the clearing, still roaring over the sound of our C-14s, and turned around to rumble back the way it had come. That was when I saw that Twohy, who had gotten us into this mess, was down under a fallen tree trunk the ultralisk had knocked over on its initial charge. The ultralisk didn’t even see him, but it crushed his entire upper body flat as it passed by on its way back into the jungle. Part of him shot out from under its foot like ketchup squirting out of a ruptured commissary packet. It splattered across the churned-up ground in a curve of pink and red.

    That’s when the graffiti suddenly made sense. It was a warning. At least that’s what we thought at the time. The curving, crossed lines were kaiser blades.
    -The Great One

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