Imperium of Man Vs Galactic Empire

Imperium of Man Vs Galactic Empire

Suggested by PwNaGE TraiN

Composite Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40K) faces off against a composite Galactic Empire (Star Wars).

Everyone from both sides are available to fight.

Which side would win?

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3,163 Comments on "Imperium of Man Vs Galactic Empire"

  1. Jedah Dohma May 20, 2013 at 7:15 am -      #1

    Well the GEoM would rape anyone from the GE. Primarchs would also be a major threat to said majors
    -
    Although the GE has superior FTL and logistics compared to the IoM (at least Post-Heresy)

  2. Cananatra May 20, 2013 at 7:43 am -      #2

    Hmm, IoM is a tad on the slow side in comparison. But they do have massive amounts of people that they can throw at this.

  3. OberHerr May 20, 2013 at 7:45 am -      #3

    Wait, does this mean they are both at their peak?
    -
    I’m gonna say IoM to begin with, just cause its WH40K and stuff. But, not counting GE out totally yet.

  4. Jedah Dohma May 20, 2013 at 7:45 am -      #4

    Well that and since they’re not limited to their post heresy selves (composite….) so they actually have some good industrial capacity (as in they can build new ships, forge worlds, shipyards among other things), albiet idk much about this so, yeah
    -
    And they’re not divided and war torn in the match

  5. OberHerr May 20, 2013 at 7:52 am -      #5

    The Primarchs and GEoM are gonna rape in whatever battle they’re in, cause the whole “really freaking hard to kill” thing.
    -
    I dunno, I mean they have industrial capabilities, have the GEoM leading them, all the Primarchs, all their soldiers that have ever been. Plus, the whole WH40K kinda joke about how everything is heresy didn’t exist under the GEoM, so more freedom for the IoM forces. I would say GE is gonna have a tough time.

  6. Hermit May 20, 2013 at 8:06 am -      #6

    The Emperor vs Palpatine.

  7. Hermit May 20, 2013 at 8:12 am -      #7

    I mean, I can easily see one of them to set up a duel with the other so that “our soldiers need not be sacrificed for this meaningless war.”
    .
    The losing side might not surrender immediately, but the loss of their leader is a devastating break in their morale.

  8. AssassinStriker May 20, 2013 at 8:35 am -      #8

    I mean, I can easily see one of them to set up a duel with the other so that “our soldiers need not be sacrificed for this meaningless war.”

    ““““““““““““““““““`

    the sith definetly wont and from what ive heard the imperium wont keep their promise either.
    regardless of who wins the one on one the other side will double cross and attack anyway

    ““““““““““““““““““““““
    and just so everyone knows im a big star wars fan and am going to support them until someone supplies us with some more info on the imperium as i know next to nothing on warhammer 4k

  9. AssassinStriker May 20, 2013 at 8:57 am -      #14
  10. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 9:04 am -      #15

    Well, I suggested this match at least three times in the past two years. Never once did composite IoM cross my mind though, that seeems to me to make it a stomp for the IoM. Maybe I am overestimating pre-heresy IoM, but I don’t think the Empire can even put up a token resistance.
    -
    Oh well, I guess I’ll try to debate this. Does WH40k have planetary shields? If not, the GE could just start putting railguns on their ships like the days of old, and popping into systems, destroying the planets, and popping out.-
    -
    @ Stoker
    -
    Shit like that is gonna be useless for a fight like this, look towards X-1 Vipers, Turbolaser Tanks, and Cal class warships.

  11. AssassinStriker May 20, 2013 at 9:17 am -      #17

    @zomb

    the top two of my comments have the better stuff like the death stars and stuff but there awaiting moderation

  12. AssassinStriker May 20, 2013 at 9:19 am -      #18
  13. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 9:23 am -      #19

    “the top two of my comments have the better stuff like the death stars and stuff but there awaiting moderation”
    -
    Ahh, okay, I wouldn’t put much faith in new superweapons for this. I think they should go back to what the Star Wars factions used before the invention of planetary shields. Make every ship a planet buster, and just start busting planets. Of course, that is only if the IoM doesn’t have planetary shields, which to my VERY limited knowledge it doesn’t.

  14. TheBoss May 20, 2013 at 9:26 am -      #20

    I don’t know too much about WH40K, but against a composite IoM, it doesn’t look like GE has much chance.
    _
    Though as it’s a composite GE, and there has apparently been a few “Empire’s” in SW (think ToR MMO) do they get counted, or is it just the OT+ Empire?

  15. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 9:29 am -      #21

    Now this is one of those situations where I think Terra could be destroyed fairly quickly. Unless the Emperor has some means of stopping the Galaxy Gun’s torpedoes, then there goes The Astronomican and probably a few of the High Lords and other important people. Just sniping the most important worlds doesn’t seem like an impossibility.
    -
    Primarchs and Emprah are still thorny issues.

  16. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 9:29 am -      #22

    “Though as it’s a composite GE, and there has apparently been a few “Empire’s” in SW (think ToR MMO) do they get counted, or is it just the OT+ Empire?”
    -
    Those weren’t THE GE(As pictured) so yeah, just the Empire that lasted less than a century, vs a composite of an Empire that lasted thousands of years.

  17. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 9:35 am -      #23

    “Primarchs and Emprah are still thorny issues.”
    -
    JUst so noone gets it twisted, I have no delusions that Star Wars can win this. As soon as I saw ‘Composite’ I resigned myself to the fact that Star Wars was getting fucked by WH40k again. I bring up the Empire’s ability to put planet destroying railguns on their ships, and go ham, purely out of the lack of support for WH40k so far.

  18. TheBoss May 20, 2013 at 9:36 am -      #24

    @ZomB

    Ah well, I’ll see how this plays out. But it seems like a waste of a potentially good match.

  19. Hermit May 20, 2013 at 9:41 am -      #25

    I heard there was a dragon in 40k residing on Mars.

  20. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 9:47 am -      #26

    “Now this is one of those situations where I think Terra could be destroyed fairly quickly. Unless the Emperor has some means of stopping the Galaxy Gun’s torpedoes, then there goes The Astronomican and probably a few of the High Lords and other important people. Just sniping the most important worlds doesn’t seem like an impossibility.”
    -
    Wouldn’t that take care of the Emperor too? Or is hisd drability at planetary level +? Or is he just not on Terra usually?
    -
    Also, will noone tell me if IoM has planetary shields!?

  21. luchagoort May 20, 2013 at 9:47 am -      #27

    @Hermit
    that’d be the Void Dragon, one of the Necron’s C’tan. Seeing as he’s on the Necron’s side, i doubt he factors into this at all though.

  22. Hermit May 20, 2013 at 10:06 am -      #28

    @luchagoort
    Would make for a good last resort weapon though.

  23. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 10:10 am -      #29

    “Would make for a good last resort weapon though.”
    -
    It is not a weapon for them to use. It is a C’Tan, a sort of Necron god, no affiliation with the IoM.

  24. luchagoort May 20, 2013 at 10:11 am -      #30

    @Hermit
    I’d love to see the GE’s face when all of a sudden there’s 40k’s version of reapers showing up on every world they have.

  25. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 10:15 am -      #31

    @Zom
    For about the first 200 years of the Great Crusade, the Emperor was on the front lines. Once he relegated the title of Warmaster to Horus, he secluded himself on Terra to work on his Webway project.
    -
    So it’s kind of a hit and a miss whether he’d be there, and there’s the possibility that he’d sense the destruction coming and manage to teleport or board a ship in time.
    -
    Still, they lose Terra, they lose the Astronomican and the Emperor’s laboratory. The Morale blow would be rather large I imagine. HIt Mars and you lose an enormous amount of the Mechanicus’ archived knowledge and a lot of industrial capacity. Hive Worlds, Agri-Worlds, Forge Worlds. They can hit a lot of important places, very quickly.

  26. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 10:16 am -      #32

    And going off of Titanicus, there are city sized Voids. Dunno about planetary.

  27. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 10:27 am -      #33

    “For about the first 200 years of the Great Crusade, the Emperor was on the front lines. Once he relegated the title of Warmaster to Horus, he secluded himself on Terra to work on his Webway project.”
    -
    Only 200 Years? That is like how long it takes to take a shit in WH40k it seems. He was on Terra alot more often than not then. The Galaxy Gun could destroy just about every planet in the IoM really. They could send out the Death Stars as fleet support. Keeping the Galaxy Gun safely nestled in GE space as it picks off the IoM’s planets one by one.
    -
    -
    Anyways, I will now assume the IoM doesn’t have planetary shields, which means, in addition to the Galaxy Gun, Death Stars, and Centerpoint. The GE can start using planet busting railguns like back before they invented planetary shields. So, how well can the IoM fight a war with no planets?

  28. luchagoort May 20, 2013 at 10:36 am -      #34

    “So, how well can the IoM fight a war with no planets?”
    seeing as how this is compact IoM, they should still have their astartes legions (unless i’m mistakes, which is a very good possibility). Think about it, 18 legions worth of space marines, all of them with a primarch to lead them, under the leadership of the Emperor, and ever so slightly annoyed at the EG for blowing up their most holy planet(s).
    -
    I get the feeling that whoever wins this, it’ll be a pyrrhic victory, no matter how you slice it.

  29. Tsubodai May 20, 2013 at 10:43 am -      #35

    The Imperium of Mankind is going to have a big problem here not because they are weak, but rather because they are so strong. let me explain.
    -
    I am going to assume for sanity’s sake that in an all-out war of fleets or ground troops, the IOM would win. I have difficulty believing any different, given the IOM’s ability to duel with the likes of the eldar and necrons. Also, judging by the descriptions, void shields are comparable to vong dovin basals, which worked quite well during the invasion of the imperial remnant.
    -
    Now, the problem is that the IOM is based around an extremely rigid structure, with litttle to no new technology and a frightening lack of redundancy. That makes it extremely vulnerable to GE Superweapon tactics, particularly the sun crusher and galaxy gun, which could take out vital worlds with no chance to respond. The Astronomican’s destruction in particular would deal terrible damage to their mobility, if i understand correctly.
    -
    I really don’t know who will win. Even engagements belong to the IOM, but superweapons will be taking their key worlds out from under them before they can blink. the IOM would win in a sane scenario, but 40k wasn’t designed to be sane. They are so focused on a few vital points – mars, for instance – that i have little faith in their ability to fight an opponent who can take those away.

  30. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 10:45 am -      #36

    I think they will lose quite a few, as well as possibly the GEoM. I mean, not everyone is going to be on a ship. The big thing is though, this eliminates the IoM’s industry, they will have no more resources, hell, if the Empire uses World Devastators, they can actually destroy the IoM’s planets while building their own forces. The IoM will become like the fleet from Battlestar Galactica, wandering through space dreadin when they’ll come across a GE fleet.

  31. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 10:51 am -      #37

    “I am going to assume for sanity’s sake that in an all-out war of fleets or ground troops, the IOM would win.”
    -
    FLeets, is actually very close, the IoM may have a slight firepower per ship edge, but they have alot less ships. Ground forces, well, since it is composite, the GE can actually fight back there as well, they’ll probably still lose, but between SD-10s, X-1 Vipers, Phase III Dark Troopers, and Turbolaser Tanks. It won’t be a picnic.

  32. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 10:55 am -      #38

    World Devastators are a good point. Wreckage from space battles and ground engagements can be recycled into new material for the GE to use, giving the ability to stretch their supplies away from home, which is something harder for the Imperium to do.

  33. itcheyness May 20, 2013 at 10:56 am -      #39

    Since it’s composite I think IoM takes it with sheer numbers.
    -
    I mean, the have 10,000 years worth of troops, the Primarchs (which would number at 20 even if we don’t know two of them), massive amounts of ships, titans, tanks, the industrial capacity to build even more of the above and last but not least the GEoM.
    -
    The only thing that could save the GE is their massive amounts of doomsday weapons.
    -
    Although, if the GE takes out Terra and the astronomican early on, this match becomes a lot more winnable for the GE…

  34. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 11:03 am -      #40

    “World Devastators are a good point. Wreckage from space battles and ground engagements can be recycled into new material for the GE to use, giving the ability to stretch their supplies away from home, which is something harder for the Imperium to do.”
    -
    Industry is the backbone of any war.
    -
    -

    “Since it’s composite I think IoM takes it with sheer numbers.”
    -
    NUmbers that are going to dwindle really fast as the IoM starts losing planets. The first thing that will be gone is either Terra or Mars. After that, it is just going to become a crapshoot. They can send in world devastators to turn the slagged remains of the IoM’s planets into their own war machine.
    -
    Plus, Centerpoint was technically part of the Galactic Empire.

  35. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 11:19 am -      #41

    awww, you guys started the party without me.
    Oh well, time to unleash some dogs of war baby.
    Just got the essential guide to warfare for star wars the other day so time to dig through it for useful info.
    In case it’s unclear I support the Gallactic empire.
    Composite Empire means two things, 1. Grand Admiral Thrawn, and 2. In prime of life Emperor Palpatine(I’m pretty certain anyway). Doesn’t garuntee a win but gives the Empire it’s best tactician and an Emperor who’s got plenty of clone bodies to spare and the ability to raze entire fleets from space.
    For now though I’m going to be looking for what I can as far as tech info goes.

  36. Messmaker May 20, 2013 at 11:23 am -      #42
  37. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 11:26 am -      #43

    The Palpatine, as stated in the Thrawn books, was actually able to use his force influence to improve the effectiveness of the Imperial Navy and other armed forces. Something like he improved reactions and discipline and tactical ability. That’s Zhan’s reason why the Empire kind of just fell apart at Endor when they still outnumbered and outgunned the Rebels-the sudden shock of the Emperor’s influence vanishing caused disorientation among the Imperials. But it also does lend a fact that some of the Empire’s most experienced officers were aboard the Executor when it was destroyed.
    -
    Here we have both Thrawn’s tactical ability, and Palpatine’s force influence.

  38. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 11:31 am -      #44

    And those Books give Thrawn Spaarti tech; that means lots and lots of disposable troops, and lots more troops from the Cloning Facilities the Empire owned on Kamino.
    -
    Thrawn was able to clone Luke Skywalker with a Spaarti cylinder, and Joruus C’baoth was a clone of Jorus C’baoth created the same way. I’m curious about whether or not Primarch’s are out of the question, provided the genetic material is obtained.
    -
    How would the Force nulling effect of Ysalmiri translate to Warp abilities, elemental compatibility and all that considered?

  39. Namer May 20, 2013 at 11:33 am -      #45

    Despite what everyone thinks, the Imperium isn’t without their superweapons. Blackstone Fortresses have the capability of obliterating entire Star Systems and the Composite Imperium would have six of them.
    -
    [url]http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Blackstone_Fortress[/url]
    -
    Granted the Imperium doesn’t know how to use them when they owned them, but the God-Emperor definitely would.
    -
    On the God-Emperor, he will be a major turning point for the Imperium. Even in a crippled and weakened state, constantly fighting off the Warp, he was capable of creating a Multi-system Warp Storm, something not even palpatine at his prime was able to. And the GE is at his prime here.

  40. Messmaker May 20, 2013 at 11:37 am -      #46
  41. Sauroposeidon May 20, 2013 at 11:39 am -      #47

    “How would the Force nulling effect of Ysalmiri translate to Warp abilities, elemental compatibility and all that considered?”
    -
    Considering how adamant I’ve seen 40kers insist that the force and the warp should be treated as the same thing in debates.. I’d say the little lizard does the exact same thing it does with th warp as it does with the force.
    -
    Also.. I feel like this has been done already. I can’t believe that it hasn’t been if indeed it hasn’t. This seems like a match up that would have taken place on this site ages ago…

  42. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 11:39 am -      #48

    So we have a shit ton of super weapons, Darth wipes fleets away with a Force Storm Sidious, a special band of Storm Troopers cloned from one of the Emperors Hands giving them force powers of pretty decent degree. All the clones of Starkiller, any versions of Starkiller allied with the Empire in canon, various Emperors hands. The Empire’s best tactician in Admiral Thrawn. Darth Vader, a clone of Luke Skywalker (not as strong as him but still). The Empire’s massive industrial capacity.
    Anything I’m missing?

  43. AssassinStriker May 20, 2013 at 11:43 am -      #49

    @ga

    all the eu shit since its composite xd

  44. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 11:43 am -      #50

    When they were looking through Mount Tantiss (same place they found the Spaarti tech and cloaking devices), it implied that the Empire still makes some-small perhaps-use of Trihexalon.
    -
    And then if you take Death Troopers, you could have Zombies added on top of all that.

  45. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 11:45 am -      #51

    You’re missing ACTUAL Luke Skywalker, he was afterall, a citizen of the Empire before he joined the Rebellion, so composite could have Palps make him his apprentice easily.

  46. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 11:46 am -      #52

    Oh, hadn’t thought about the use of Ysalmiri lizards to nerf the Imperium warp users.
    oh and
    @Messmaker
    that’s nothing, there’s a water based submarine AT-AT, an AT-IC or All Terrain Ion Cannon, which is basically a walking Ion Cannon like it sounds like. There are multiple versions of the AT-ST some more deadly than others, oh and a lot of Old Republic warships and weapons stayed in commission for a while before being removed so all those armored vehicles like the AT-TE the Republic Star Ships….all those are still in play.
    -
    @ZomB
    technically in canon when Palpatine was in his prime again Luke became his apprentice…..soo….

  47. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 11:50 am -      #53

    And you’ve got Mara Jade, from when she was Palp’s hand. Luke and her just need to breed the Imperium out of existence with Jedi babies and Starkiller’s derpy clone brothers.

  48. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 12:03 pm -      #54

    If the Empire hits hard and fast early in the conflict they can massively devastate the IoM by wiping out whole solar systems in a matter of seconds. Which then get turned into mines for materials to further the Empires industrial complex. Blitzkrieg style warfare will prove a most effective strategy here against the larger numbers of the Imperium

  49. Namer May 20, 2013 at 12:07 pm -      #55

    The AT-HT is from Darth Krayt’s Galactic Empire. Like a century and half after the Original Galactic Empire.
    -
    The Composite Imperium has [i]millions[/i] of Space Marines and twenty Primarchs. While the Empire does have cloning technology, I doubt they will get the DNA of the Primarchs’ that easily.
    -
    Sidious was capable of creating force storms that wiped out entire fleets at his prime. The God-Emperor was capable of creating a Warp Storm that spanned multiple systems when he was a corpse barely kept alive and had been using most of his psychic prowess to hold back the Chaos Gods. at his Prime, the God-Emperor would wipe the floor with every single force user in the Empire.
    -
    The Galactic Empire has the Advantage only in their Faster than Light Hyperdrive and their odious amounts of Superweapons. Not to say the Imperium doesn’t have Superweapons, namely the Blackstone Fortresses. I am aware when the Imperium held those, they were unable to use it for what it was meant for, but the God Emperor or a Pre-Heresy Imperium would be able to make full use of them.
    -http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Blackstone_Fortress
    -
    On ground, the Empire loses. Badly. The Imperium have far greater reserves of the Imperial Guard than the Empire has Stormtroopers. I believe it has been decided that Lasguns are generally equal to blasters. And Imperium Armor far outstrips anything the Empire can fields. Any Titan, for instance. The Reaver-Class titan is the mainline unit fielded by the Collegia Titanica and it far outstrips the AT-AT that is the heaviest armor the Empire fields.
    -
    Yeah, this could go both ways, but my money’s on the Imperium of Man.

  50. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 12:11 pm -      #56

    Yeah, I don’t see how the Imperium can stop it, two of their planet destroyers don’t even have to be near the planets to destroy them (Galaxy Gun/Centerpoint). Combine that with the other planet destroyers, (Death Stars, Sun Crusher, the Tarkin) This will become a search and destroy with the remnants of the IoM’s fleet real fast, and eventually the GE will find and destroy the last of the IoM.

  51. Richard Rider May 20, 2013 at 12:12 pm -      #57

    The Galactic Empire could just use the Center Point Station to rearange the Imperium of Man’s planets.

  52. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 12:15 pm -      #58

    “The Reaver-Class titan is the mainline unit fielded by the Collegia Titanica and it far outstrips the AT-AT that is the heaviest armor the Empire fields.”
    -
    You my good sir, are unaware of TUrbolaser tanks, and X-1 Vipers then.
    -
    -
    Also, you failed to address any of the points brought up for the GE. Like how a massive portion of the IoM will be dead in a matter of seconds as the GE destroys Sol.

  53. Sauroposeidon May 20, 2013 at 12:18 pm -      #59

    As usual, I bring up the World Devastators. These things alone are an enormous threat. They are the most powerful weapon the Empire can deploy which fights on land. They would literally eat the Imperium’s Titans.
    -
    I think the Imperium’s biggest weakness here, aside from their vastly slower FTL, is they lack of ability to replenish forces. The only things they have which are really dangerous they can’t replace. Do they still build new battle barges and battleships? They don’t have nearly enough Space Marines to make a difference, and can hardly replace any they lose in an all out war like this.
    -
    Where as the Empire can keep replacing ships it loses at a phenomenal rate compared to the Imperium, and we know they have ships which can take on 40k vessels. I suspect that while it would slow down the numbers they churn out, that they’d switch to only making vessels of the Eclipse-class after a while if this became a long and drawn out fight..
    -
    As this is composite, the Empire has access to phrik armored droids. Molecular Shielding which eats non ballistic attacks (Plasma, laser, energy, ect) and empowers the shield user and allows the user to even shoot back what it absorbed). Self healing alloys, and the ability to mount large Ship level weaponry on droids/walkers the size of AT-ST’s..
    -
    In a ground war, they just can’t lose. Not when Palpatine can also use his sith alchemy and dark arts to mutate new monstrosities out of normal creatures like Rancors.
    -
    In space, there’s no contest. They have the logistical advantage by a landslide, and the technology to put out enough fire power to destroy Imperium Ships. Along with a distinct numbers advantage in ships, and the ability to pump out a butt load more boats if need be.
    -
    My money is with the Empire on this one.

  54. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 12:18 pm -      #60

    “The Galactic Empire could just use the Center Point Station to rearange the Imperium of Man’s planets.”
    -
    Or just destroy them, or bring them to them one by one for World Devastation, or destroy their stars. When you can move your opponents planets, shit gets crazy yo.

  55. Sauroposeidon May 20, 2013 at 12:22 pm -      #61

    “The Imperium have far greater reserves of the Imperial Guard than the Empire has Stormtroopers.”
    -
    The Empire’s Automodons would be able to take on the entirety of the Imperial Guard by themselves on the ground.
    -
    “The Reaver-Class titan is the mainline unit fielded by the Collegia Titanica and it far outstrips the AT-AT that is the heaviest armor the Empire fields.”
    -
    The AT-AT is not the heaviest thing the Empire fields in a ground war campaign. I don’t know who told you this. World Devastators are. Their molecular furnace would dismantle a Titan on the atomic scale after it’s been torn up by the powerful tractor beams.

  56. Sauroposeidon May 20, 2013 at 12:23 pm -      #62

    “Or just destroy them, or bring them to them one by one for World Devastation, or destroy their stars. When you can move your opponents planets, shit gets crazy yo.”
    -
    That’s just ridiculous.. it seems we’ve wrapped this up pretty quickly.. The Empire’s gong to break Earth before Earth even knows an attack has been launched against it, presumably..

  57. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 12:26 pm -      #63

    “The AT-AT is not the heaviest thing the Empire fields in a ground war campaign. I don’t know who told you this. World Devastators are. Their molecular furnace would dismantle a Titan on the atomic scale after it’s been torn up by the powerful tractor beams.”
    -
    I didn’t even think of the WDs as ‘Heavy Armor’ when I responded to that. I’ve always thought of them as like planetary capital ships, that double as factories.

  58. Sauroposeidon May 20, 2013 at 12:30 pm -      #64

    “I mean, the have 10,000 years worth of troops, the Primarchs (which would number at 20 even if we don’t know two of them), massive amounts of ships, titans, tanks, the industrial capacity to build even more of the above and last but not least the GEoM.”
    -
    For the record, I would imagine there’d be a very fast die off. They lack the ship numbers to transport them, the cities to hold them, and the food to feed them for very long. This is more of a logistical nightmare for the IoM than any sort of boon.

  59. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 12:31 pm -      #65

    “That’s just ridiculous.. it seems we’ve wrapped this up pretty quickly.. The Empire’s gong to break Earth before Earth even knows an attack has been launched against it, presumably..”
    -
    Indeed, the IoM put too many eggs in too few baskets for this match. They will be crippled before they even have time to respond, Not to mention they’ll be losing battles when they actual get a chance to fight.

  60. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 12:32 pm -      #66

    I truly am amazed that this wasn’t posted earlier. Truly I am, it just seems…Like one of those matches.
    -
    World Devastators are pretty cool. If it’s not bad enough that your planet is being destroyed, your planet is being molecularly reshaped into more material to help the people responsible.

  61. Sauroposeidon May 20, 2013 at 12:32 pm -      #67

    “I didn’t even think of the WDs as ‘Heavy Armor’ when I responded to that. I’ve always thought of them as like planetary capital ships, that double as factories.”
    -
    Well, they fight on the ground when actually engaging in battle. They just have the ability to fly through space too since they’re too big to transport. They COULD fight in space, of course, but as their most dangerous weapon is their molecular furnace.. it’s a pointless thing to use them when you could easily fit a star destroyer task force in to the same role of space combat.. which would then free you up to deploy the WD’s on ground missions.. for as long as there’s ground left for them to eat.

  62. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 12:33 pm -      #68

    “As usual, I bring up the World Devastators. These things alone are an enormous threat. They are the most powerful weapon the Empire can deploy which fights on land. They would literally eat the Imperium’s Titans”
    -
    I would just like to say this conjured one of the greatest images I have ever imagined to my mind.

  63. TheBoss May 20, 2013 at 12:35 pm -      #69

    So, wait. Is this a stomp for Composite GE? Providing they use their extensive array of Super Weapons straight out of the gate?

  64. Namer May 20, 2013 at 12:35 pm -      #70

    …This is what happens when you don’t bother doing enough research on the EU.
    -
    I was under the impression the World Devastators were closer to a ship than a ground vehicle.
    -
    You got me schooled. I could argue on technicalities or throw around God-Emperor wankeries, but that would just be dumb.

  65. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 12:36 pm -      #71

    doing some research, not sure how accurate this is but does the Imperium really only have a million worlds?

  66. Richard The Ghost Rider May 20, 2013 at 12:37 pm -      #72

    Heres some info on the Centerpoiht Station:
    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Centerpoint_Station

  67. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 12:40 pm -      #73

    “So, wait. Is this a stomp for Composite GE? Providing they use their extensive array of Super Weapons straight out of the gate?”
    -
    Seems like it, I’m shocked honestly, I had plenty of arguments ready to go.-
    -
    -
    “…This is what happens when you don’t bother doing enough research on the EU.”
    -
    Happens to everyone mate, STar Wars’ EU is ridiculously massive. Even I don’t know a large amount of it.
    -
    -
    “I was under the impression the World Devastators were closer to a ship than a ground vehicle.”
    -
    They’re more like a ground ship.
    -
    -
    “doing some research, not sure how accurate this is but does the Imperium really only have a million worlds?”
    -
    Sounds about right, from what I have heard, they have a very small Empire.

  68. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 12:41 pm -      #74

    @TheBoss
    pretty much, so long as the Empire plays it smart and hammers the Imperium hard as soon as they can the Empire can cause too much damage for the Imperium to mount a good defense. Considering every world that falls will be used to further the Empires industrial complex it just gets worse the longer the war goes on.

  69. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 12:43 pm -      #75

    @ZomB
    I honestly thought they’d be larger the way people were talking, the Empire has far more systems/worlds than that. Also are we counting the Imperial Remnant from the NJO era in this?

  70. Sauroposeidon May 20, 2013 at 12:43 pm -      #76

    And the Warsies say we shit on Star Wars on this site. Pfft. Nonsense.
    -
    “So, wait. Is this a stomp for Composite GE? Providing they use their extensive array of Super Weapons straight out of the gate?”
    -
    I want to say no, but it will be a handily won with the same success as the American Navy’s sweep of the Pacific during the second World War, I suspect. I believe that the Galactic Empire deserves the award. The Imperium of Man is no small foe, and not an easily defeated one. The engagements will be violent, bloody, and full of smoke.. but the Empire can win it. Especially with their super weapons in play. They definitely have the technological edge over the Imperium, which is a major benefit for them.
    -
    So I think I’m already to the point where I nominate the Galactic Empire for the Factpile Award. Too soon?

  71. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 12:44 pm -      #77

    Now Space Marines are a good point, but even they need to have boots on ground to be at their most effective. When the Empire is literally ripping their worlds apart one by one and blasting their fleets away in space, they cannot actually do very much. This is a war of attrition that favors the Empire.
    -
    Exterminatus in Preemptus (made that up) wont hinder the Empire like the nids; the World Devastators don’t care whether the planet is habitable or not, so the IoM cannot even very easily deprive the Empire of resources.

  72. Richard The Ghost Rider May 20, 2013 at 12:45 pm -      #78

    Just read L-W’s posts on Star Wars Vs. Imperium Of Man:
    www.factpile.com/2968-star-wars-vs-imperium-of-man/

  73. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 12:48 pm -      #79

    “I honestly thought they’d be larger the way people were talking, the Empire has far more systems/worlds than that. Also are we counting the Imperial Remnant from the NJO era in this?”
    -
    I certainly am, it is still the remnants of the Palpatine’s Empire, so I see no reason wouldn’t count.-
    -
    -
    “And the Warsies say we shit on Star Wars on this site. Pfft. Nonsense.”
    -
    I’ll cry persecution as much as I want damnit!
    -
    -
    “So I think I’m already to the point where I nominate the Galactic Empire for the Factpile Award. Too soon?”
    -
    I expected a long drawn out debate that would last over a year. It seems though, this was a good clean and most amazingly, fast victory for the GE.
    -
    +1

  74. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 12:53 pm -      #80

    I wonder if Krytos would affect abhumans?

  75. Namer May 20, 2013 at 1:04 pm -      #81

    This had the chance for an FP award, but I doubt this’ll get one, seeing as how clean-cut the victory was.

  76. Sauroposeidon May 20, 2013 at 1:10 pm -      #82

    “This had the chance for an FP award, but I doubt this’ll get one, seeing as how clean-cut the victory was.”
    -
    Samus got her award over Boba, and the moment we had actual data on her, her victory was extremely clear cut. It was well debated, but we threw everything the GE had at the IoM, and the IoM supporters appear to have conceded.
    -
    These are the primary requirements.
    -
    “4.) Said award should only be given when the fight was fairly balanced, debated civilly (relatively) and no true counter argument exists that would upset the assumed victory.”
    -
    Nothing concerning length is present. Although we can talk and wait to see if anyone has a counter argument.

  77. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 1:14 pm -      #83

    Given…Perhaps it would be meet to allow time for 40K’s constituent supporters to convene on the topic. Middle of the day isn’t the most convenient time, especially for those who might be students. I have a decent conviction that the GE can win, but I do feel it is necessary for opposition statements to be heard.

  78. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 1:18 pm -      #84

    well we have a week before the award would be given anyway. So no real rush. Might as well let the debate run it’s course.

  79. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 1:22 pm -      #85

    I hate waiting. Nonetheless, I’ll do it, “FOR THE SITH EMPRAH!”

  80. Sauroposeidon May 20, 2013 at 1:28 pm -      #86

    Agreed. Time to wait and see what can be brought to the front.

  81. captain napalm May 20, 2013 at 1:36 pm -      #87

    Not much to add, this debate looks pretty much decided already, but:

    @GuardianAngel1911

    “doing some research, not sure how accurate this is but does the Imperium really only have a million worlds?”

    Yup. The Imperium spans pretty much the whole galaxy but it’s very thinly spread–many of its systems are light years apart from any allies. This is mainly due to warp travel being what it is.

    So, basically, no, their empire isn’t ‘small’, it covers a lot of area, but yes, it’s ‘small’, in that it doesn’t contain many controlled planets.

    Otherwise, have to agree with you guys. IoM make most engagements on the ground IIRC, so wouldn’t really be able to mount an effective defence against all those SW superweapons. Unless the emperor and all his psykers can throw up a massive psychic shield or something, I don’t know . Unlikely.

  82. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 1:54 pm -      #88

    well there is one thing, images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120306025041/starwars/images/8/89/Stormtrooper_Saber_art.jpg Cuis Clones, Troopers cloned from one of the Emperors Hand Sith. Trained in the way of the Force and lightsaber combat. Composite means the original six pictured there are in play, and due to composite and FP rules saying the Empire all gets along the Emperor could have multiple of his Sith Assassins cloned for the purpose of making a mass produced army of successful Sith Troopers.
    After every ground battle, many regular Stormtroopers would be slaughtered, but every battle the number of Sith Troopers will grow, until the Space Marines are fighting an army of Sith.

  83. BC May 20, 2013 at 1:55 pm -      #89

    “ So we have a shit ton of super weapons, Darth wipes fleets away with a Force Storm Sidious, a special band of Storm Troopers cloned from one of the Emperors Hands giving them force powers of pretty decent degree. All the clones of Starkiller, any versions of Starkiller allied with the Empire in canon, various Emperors hands. The Empire’s best tactician in Admiral Thrawn. Darth Vader, a clone of Luke Skywalker (not as strong as him but still). The Empire’s massive industrial capacity.
    Anything I’m missing? “
    -
    Mara Jade for one, she was a Hand during the latter part of the Imperial period. While she is not as impressive from a shear destruction point of view she was the best hyperspace pilot in living memory, perhaps the best ever. Skywalker chewed her out a few times for her pulling jumps on nothing but their feel through the force instead of waiting for calculations. If she stayed dark side she would have been a prime candidate for doing Force Storm because of her affinity for hyperspace.
    -
    There is also Gilad Pellaeon, he was not yet a Grand Admiral in the Imperial Era but he was still a tactical genius and was high enough in rank to make a difference, especially in cooperation with Thrawn.
    -
    Don’t forget Yoda or the other Jedi survivors, they were a handful of outlaws but still technically Imperial citizens.
    -
    Princess Lea could also factor into it, Yoda and Kenobi both know who she really is and it is implied that they knew of her force potential. Like most force users she has affinities that come naturally to her, in her case energy absorption (an instinctive use of which saved her life on Endor when a direct blaster hit burned through her clothing but miraculously left her untouched) and battle meditation, the same inspiring and luck altering power that Sidious used to boost Imperial forces and hinder rebel ones when he was present at a battle zone. With a little training she would be quite an asset (though she would be expensive to keep supplied with lightsabers since her father was still using his :) ). The Endor incident makes me wonder if the storm troopers were actually hitting her more often before that while she thought they missed or even if she used a little battle meditation the same way. Luke certainly tended to get sliced up and otherwise damaged a lot more when she was not present.
    -
    “ And you’ve got Mara Jade, from when she was Palp’s hand. Luke and her just need to breed the Imperium out of existence with Jedi babies and Starkiller’s derpy clone brothers “
    -
    Don’t laugh, with the extreme slowness things generally happen in WH40K that is not out of the question…. :)
    -
    There is also Dathomir, it is technically an imperial world though the locals did not like Palpitine much, and it is full of Witches and Night Sisters.
    -
    The communication and transportation advantage the GE has can help make up for a lot of the fact that WH40K is nothing but a big war machine. They also have weapons that require almost nothing in the way of ammo storage, just a little fuel gas and plenty of electric power so they can operate away from home for longer periods than the bullet depended IoM. Also the advantage of being able to organize and launch major raids in hours and orchestrate them in realtime cannot be stressed enough.
    -
    Composite fights get messy very quickly, it would have probably been better to just pick two times and call it good. The biggest imbalance is that WH40K has thousands of years’ worth of “hero” types while the GE is limited to a few decades worth (and those decades are relatively sparse on them at that). Most of the old Republic hero types were killed off in the coup and a lot of the new ones did not crop up until the new Republic era. Of course since the Empire was technically the Republic with a coup replacing the top (the Senate was still in place until ANH for instance) it would be theoretically possible to include the old Republic heroes which would help to balance the hero situation. On the other hand with the technical advantage it has the GE probably does not need the extra heroes.
    -
    I do not think it would be a stomp, and if the blitz stalls for some reason the GE could be in for some big hurting, but I think the GE has enough of the advantages to win.

  84. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 1:56 pm -      #90

    also
    @Captain Napalm
    well Ysilmir lizards that cancel out the Force can help with the GEOM and Psykers thanks to Warp=Force. Seed the planet with pods full of the little lizards before the actual attack, then hit the neutered forces with everything they have.

  85. BC May 20, 2013 at 2:13 pm -      #91

    “ well there is one thing, images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120306025041/starwars/images/8/89/Stormtrooper_Saber_art.jpg Cuis Clones, Troopers cloned from one of the Emperors Hand Sith. Trained in the way of the Force and lightsaber combat. Composite means the original six pictured there are in play, and due to composite and FP rules saying the Empire all gets along the Emperor could have multiple of his Sith Assassins cloned for the purpose of making a mass produced army of successful Sith Troopers.
    After every ground battle, many regular Stormtroopers would be slaughtered, but every battle the number of Sith Troopers will grow, until the Space Marines are fighting an army of Sith. “
    -
    Technically they are not “Sith” they would be “Dark Jedi” or “Sith Cultists” to get around the rule of two though that is mainly just semantics.
    -
    That reminds be about the Jensaarai though, match rules would force Palpitine to accept them instead of ordering them hunted down as possible enemies of the state so they would have at least a few dozen and probably more force users following Larad Noon’s blended light/dark philosophy and techniques.
    -
    Just think what launching a limpet torpedo with a Ysilmir in it to attach just before a warp ship jumps would do to their navigation attempts….

  86. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 2:27 pm -      #92

    @BC
    Sith Troopers sounds more mennacing than Dark Jedi Toopers though.
    And that’s them on top of 14 Hands of the Emperor (including Cuis himself in composite) imagine legions of Sith troopers lead by someone like Mara Jade, Lumiya….and of course Darth Vader. Of course it would take time for the transition but Space Marine Legion vs Sith Trooper legion would be a clusterfuck of epic proportions.
    -
    Once Psykers are discovered and Ysilmir filled torpedoes begin being used to diminish their abilities then the primary weapon the Imperium as over the Empire (the use of the Warp) is gone. Of course as the Emperor increases his number of Sith Troopers the Psykers will be countered to a point anyway in numbers if nothing else. And I can only imagine the effect the new legions would have psychologically. As the AT-AT’s and other troop transports march on Imperium Citadels and the Imperium forces charge to meet them hundreds of lightsaber weilding troops leap from the transports the battlefield glowing red from the sheer number of lightsabers, the pale white armor cast in a blood red glow, might not really effect Imperium Forces, but the civilian’s of the Imperium will be freaked the fuck out.

  87. Sauroposeidon May 20, 2013 at 2:28 pm -      #93

    “Just think what launching a limpet torpedo with a Ysilmir in it to attach just before a warp ship jumps would do to their navigation attempts….”
    -
    At that point, the Imperial Officers aren’t so much tactically assaulting the Imperium’s logistical capabilities as they are just laughing their asses off in their Star Destroyer’s bridge as the troll the ever living hell out of the Imperium’s captains.

  88. Fire grot tim May 20, 2013 at 2:42 pm -      #94

    ….. this is just sad to me. Atleast warhammer’s writters arn’t as insane as starwars writers. Galaxie guns and stuff like that is just plain stupid to me. I much would have liked to see a non-super weapon match. Troops against troops, vehicles against vehicles. Ships against ships. Heroes against hero’s…but nope. EU wins through wankness

  89. ZomBarbie Girl May 20, 2013 at 2:52 pm -      #95

    Oh don’t be bitter. Star Wars was built on superweapons, it is a core principal of Star Wars basically.

  90. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 2:53 pm -      #96

    I could take that EU wank comment seriously if this wasn’t a fight involving Warhammer40K…….
    The Galaxy gun as far as I know is only a planet busting weapon..and no less stupid than some of the stuff I’ve seen said for the Warhammerverse……

  91. Fire grot tim May 20, 2013 at 2:56 pm -      #97

    @Guardian

    Though being able to destroy planets in a rapid rate with a gun many light years away…. I dunno if I like that. I would also say that they would be able to develop shielding to protect their planets. And how will they know the locations of mars? Terra? They’d have to scout. Not everything would be known I would think….would it?

  92. Sauroposeidon May 20, 2013 at 2:59 pm -      #98

    “….. this is just sad to me. Atleast warhammer’s writters arn’t as insane as starwars writers. Galaxie guns and stuff like that is just plain stupid to me. I much would have liked to see a non-super weapon match. Troops against troops, vehicles against vehicles. Ships against ships. Heroes against hero’s…but nope. EU wins through wankness”
    -
    Oh come now Tim. If we had a match with Nazi Germany, removing all their wonky super weapons and experimental vehicles from the match would make them rather bland. It’s these Nazi-like qualities that make the Galactic Empire so charismatic. However much we pretend to hate the Nazis, the reality is that we also love and respect them for the enemies they were, and the feats they were able to accomplish. The may not have been the most practical, but they were theatric, with memorable commanders and soldiers, and even still got shit done. The Galactic Empire holds all those traits that make us hold the Nazis so high up on a pedestal even while we vilify and detest them.
    -
    Removing these bizarre one shot super weapons from the Galactic Empire effectively neuters them. Not just clipping their combat potential but removing an important part of the very character of the faction itself.

  93. GuardianAngel1911 Super Sayian god May 20, 2013 at 3:05 pm -      #99

    The weapons can target across a galaxy (Centerpoint can at least) that’s also why I brought up blitzkrieg warfare. I don’t know if the sides are allowed that kind of knowledge of each others maps

  94. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 20, 2013 at 3:13 pm -      #100

    My thoughts on finding Terra honestly pretty much came down to Palpatine and Luke and Mara and Leia and Joruus sensing the immense psychic power of the Astronomican and following it back to the Sol system. I mean, Jedi have detected things like that before, haven’t they?

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