Kalameet Vs Alduin

Kalameet Vs Alduin

Suggested by Rookie

Kalameet (Dark Souls) debuts on FactPile facing off against Alduin from Skyrim.

Two black dragons.

Only one must win.

They fight to the death or KO.

Who wins?

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189 Comments on "Kalameet Vs Alduin"

  1. Kitten Lord May 14, 2013 at 7:43 am -      #1

    I was never that impressed by Alduin but I dont know all the facets of his law, while Kalameet kicked me down many a time and his speed, dark energy attacks and the like are both varied and powerful so I would initially go with him/her.

  2. Ford Prefect (With a Towel on his head) May 14, 2013 at 8:25 am -      #2

    I have no idea about Kalameet, but Alduin wasn’t overly powerful, I had less trouble beating him than some bog-standard ancient dragons

  3. Dark Expert May 14, 2013 at 8:30 am -      #3

    kalameet is more powerful i’d say based off the game but canon wise auduin is the ancient dragon who almost destroyed all of tamriel a little hyped but he is pretty powerful.

  4. Rookie May 14, 2013 at 10:18 am -      #4

    My first match! Thanks admin! Some info about Kalameet. He is one of the last remaining everlasting dragons and powerful enough that gods of Anor Londo do not dare to provoke him. The same gods who destroyed almost all dragons.This is some video about their powers:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj10Uu9ZRGg
    Now about Kalameet.
    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8CPuTqSGLo4
    After that shot, Kalameet still manages to be one the hardest boss in the entire game.
    Also creatures in the Dark Souls setting eats the soul of whatever they kill by default, so perhaps he may be able to kill Alduin for good.
    And finally fight against Kalameet:

  5. OriginalA May 14, 2013 at 10:33 am -      #5

    YEY!! A Dark Souls match!!!
    AWW, a match from the DLC and a late game boss that I haven’t fought yet.

    I’m still in Anor Londo (well, The Painted World technically).

  6. Hellion Nick May 14, 2013 at 10:44 am -      #6

    Even though I love skyrim and do not know Kalameet, I am inclined to say Kalameet.
    Because even though Alduin should be a beast by lore, ingame he is an absolute piece of shit.

  7. Kitten Lord May 14, 2013 at 11:02 am -      #7

    I am not sure Alduin brings anything to the match apart from hearsay from his lore. Kalameet actually has feets and a lot of powerful attacks. Alduin was well described by Hellion Nick :)

  8. PrimusxPilus May 14, 2013 at 11:21 am -      #8

    A lot of elder scrolls is based of lore lol. I beat alduin on the hardest difficulty

  9. Kitten Lord May 14, 2013 at 12:36 pm -      #9

    I had to add a ton of mods to alduin to make him a worthwhile final boss. If the base game does not give it to you, the community will. A modded alduin would be a beast.

  10. Negative Zero May 14, 2013 at 12:56 pm -      #10

    I’m guessing Alduin wins this.

    He’s capable of wrecking decent sized towns in minutes and can rain down fireballs from the sky. He also has an assortment of Dragon Shouts.

    Skyrim lore also calls Alduin the World Eater. Now while there’s no way that could literal, it could imply that Alduin is capable of planetary destruction.

  11. Crimson Sentry May 14, 2013 at 2:22 pm -      #11

    After watching the kalameet fight in a couple videos I saw I’d saw he’s stronger in game by far, but if we are going by a strict canon basis here then Alduin takes this. Also keep in mind that Dovahkin is much stronger than any player could be in Dark Souls (with his shouts and all that), if someone from dark souls were to fight Alduin that fight would take forever seeing as there would be no way to for him down.

  12. Rookie May 14, 2013 at 2:32 pm -      #12

    @Negative Zero
    “I’m guessing Alduin wins this.

    He’s capable of wrecking decent sized towns in minutes and can rain down fireballs from the sky. He also has an assortment of Dragon Shouts.”


    Alduin is powerfull yes, but Kalameet pretty powerfull too.
    Kalameet in his prime capable to kill player in less than a minute (from 3:48):
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR6ydb3LJjg
    Also it was said that all four Anor londo Gods( Nito, Seath, Gwyn and Izaleth) actually afraid of him.


    @Crimson Sentry
    “Also keep in mind that Dovahkin is much stronger than any player could be in Dark Souls (with his shouts and all that), if someone from dark souls were to fight Alduin that fight would take forever seeing as there would be no way to for him down.”


    I don’t know about magic, but Chosen Undead definetly very powerfull. He capable to block strikes from this: www.g33kwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/IronGolem.jpg
    It sends him back, but that’s just physics (mass).

  13. Kitten Lord May 14, 2013 at 2:33 pm -      #13

    What were Alduins successes in the lore? I cannot recall. World eater and such doesnt mean anything without feats but what did he do?

    And to be fair, the dark souls player required outside help to down kalameet as well. I dont think how hard it is for their respective opponents to take them down in their games is relevent to how either of the dragons can fight.

  14. Epicazeroth May 14, 2013 at 3:30 pm -      #14

    Most of TES is lore. It’s kinda like Tolkien. You get to see the important events, but it’s primarily a world with a story going on, thought perhaps less so than LotR.

  15. Epicazeroth May 14, 2013 at 3:45 pm -      #15

    Sorry, that was @PxP and Helion Nick.

    Also, World Eater is actually literal. He’s supposed to destroy this universe (Tamriel/Mundus) and let the new one come about. He might absorb it.

  16. PrimusxPilus May 14, 2013 at 6:33 pm -      #16

    @epic
    Oh indeed I know. The games had to be playable. If the characters were as lore the game would be VERY unbalanced. Idk dark souls though, hence my lack of involvement

  17. OberHerr May 14, 2013 at 7:20 pm -      #17

    Couldn’t Alduin not actually die?

    As for feats, he managed to easily kill a accomplished dragon-slaying Nords, and would have killed two more if not for the Elder Scroll.

    Plus he razed a whole village full of soldiers and mages without much effort.

  18. General Joshua Hundell of the Trans-Dimentional Fleet May 14, 2013 at 7:29 pm -      #18

    gameplay wise alduins such a noob, one shot with mayrune’s razer was all it took.
    now the lore is a hole other story entirely

  19. Negative Zero May 14, 2013 at 8:41 pm -      #19

    “gameplay wise alduins such a noob, one shot with mayrune’s razer was all it took.”
    Yeah, that’s how we should debate from now on.

    By how easy it was for us to beat an antagonist. Totally legit.

  20. OberHerr May 14, 2013 at 8:43 pm -      #20

    “Yeah, that’s how we should debate from now on.

    By how easy it was for us to beat an antagonist. Totally legit.”

    Second dis!

  21. Negative Zero May 14, 2013 at 9:36 pm -      #21

    I’m joking, by the way.

  22. Voidhunter May 14, 2013 at 10:05 pm -      #22

    Ive played and beat both games so while I’m not exactly an expert I do know the powers and capabilities of both. Alduin the world eater cannot be slain by anyone that does not have the power to absorb the souls of dragons, Akatosh grants this power to mortals to create Dragonborn and as such should have this ability, therefore gods can kill Alduin. Kalameet however is so powerfull that the gods themselves feared to provoke his wrath, the same gods that made the dragons(exept for Kalameet and one other who is in hiding) extinct. In this logic Alduin is stronger than mortals but Kalameet is stronger than gods Kalameet>Alduin.

  23. OberHerr May 14, 2013 at 11:47 pm -      #23

    @Negative Zero

    As ’twas I.

    @VoidHunter

    Well, that doesn’t neccsaryily mean Alduin is weaker than Kalameet. We don’t know how powerful Dark Souls gods are to TES, nor even if they are more powerful does this mean Kalameet could beat Alduin. I have no idea what it takes to kill Kalameet, or banish him or whatever, but Alduin from what I Remeber is basically invincible, or for all terms and purposes is in this fight.

  24. Negative Zero May 15, 2013 at 2:07 am -      #24

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9yB1Pr59PY
    8:00-10:00

    Does Kalameet have anything on that level?

  25. Rookie May 15, 2013 at 3:36 am -      #25

    @Negative Zero
    “Does Kalameet have anything on that level?”


    I don’t think so… The only his attack against Chosen Undead that close to this level is (From 4:10):

  26. Random guy May 15, 2013 at 4:09 am -      #26

    @NZ

    Well, his black fire breath (Which deals mostly magic damage btw, just something to be noted) can fill a rather large canyon, as you can see form Rookie’s vid. But something to be noted is that Kalameet survived this www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylFzJ3wRgHw (1:50 onward)

    The sky being filled with sunlight spears and the ground being turned into an inferno, with Nito spreading literal death, on a large scale as you can see. An entire race of immortal and powerful dragons were destroyed in that war, but Kalameet survived, and had the victorious gods scared of him, so I don’t think that one attack is going to be enough to take him out.

    One more thing to note, he has an attack where he screeches and his eye glows, and if you’re in his field of vision he psychically lifts you up and casts calamity on you, so everything that you get hit with hits twice as hard. The ring you get from killing him does the same thing “A ring enchanted by the orange eye of Kalameet, the bringer of calamity. Doubles damage received by its wearer.”

    If Alduin gets cursed by that attack, it’s bad news bears for him, especially with how relentless and powerful that black fire attack is.

  27. Namer May 15, 2013 at 8:46 am -      #27

    Alduin’s powers are kind of more unquantifiable than what I’m seeing of Kalameet. He is said to be a “Devourer of Worlds”, but shows no sign of that.

    What he CAN do, is use Shouts by simply speaking. Indeed he can will whatever to happen by simply speaking it out loud.

    And for god’s sake, don’t use the fact how easy he was in game as a reason for him to lose to Kalameet.. There is a reason why Halo Fluff is generally taken over the games in terms of technical detail.

    Alduin himself is said to be a son of Akatosh, the Dragon-God of Time, or even a different incarnation of him. So in a deific level, I’d say they’re on a similar point

  28. Messmaker May 15, 2013 at 11:04 am -      #28

    dude.
    can kalameet impose the posibility of death on alduins mind? id be willing to bet not, unless he has super-evil-darth-sidious-level mind manipulation.

    alduin can literally wipe something from existance, and the only reason he doesnt is a warped sense of fair play.

  29. Negative Zero May 15, 2013 at 11:54 am -      #29

    “Alduin’s powers are kind of more unquantifiable than what I’m seeing of Kalameet.”
    Alduin cam wreck a town in mere minutes and can make exploding fireballs rain down like Hell from above.

    Please, PLEASE tell me how Kalameet>Alduin.

  30. Negative Zero May 15, 2013 at 11:55 am -      #30

    *can wreck

  31. OberHerr May 15, 2013 at 11:56 am -      #31

    I’m just not sure if Alduin CAN be truely killed by Kalameet, and from what I’ve read, it seems he is powerful….but not that powerful.

    I guess the question is, CAN he be killed? Like, by normal means? Eventually? Or is it a case of you need the “super uber holy sword of dues ex machina!”?

  32. OberHerr May 15, 2013 at 11:59 am -      #32

    Or more correctly, not powerful in the right way.

  33. Negative Zero May 15, 2013 at 11:59 am -      #33

    “I guess the question is, CAN he be killed? Like, by normal means?”
    In Skyrim, they said only the Dovahkiin could kill Alduin.

  34. Cananatra May 15, 2013 at 1:13 pm -      #34

    Which technically means anyone who can kill him, and then trap and consume his soul.

    Mind you, as it always comes down to in Alduin fights. He only has to dragon rap to win.

  35. Messmaker May 15, 2013 at 2:30 pm -      #35

    lol. dragon rap^ lol

  36. Epicazeroth May 15, 2013 at 3:35 pm -      #36

    @Voidhunter: That’s not logic. If Akatosh can absorb souls (which he can’t because he has no body), that doesn’t mean other Aedra can, and it certainly doesn’t mean Dark Souls gods can beat Alduin.

    Also, Alduin actually destroyed the town in seconds.

  37. Messmaker May 15, 2013 at 5:07 pm -      #37

    no, it took a few minutes. hes rampaging the whole time your in the castle.

  38. Kitten Lord May 15, 2013 at 5:14 pm -      #38

    I think “town” destroying is being talked about too much, does anyone doubt Kalameet couldnt burn down a town in minutes also? Its basically old nordic wooden buildings. I think it would be harder to think of Dragons that could not wreck the village let alone powerful ones. One strafing run from Kalameet, whos breathe generally seems more powerful and widespread than dragons in Skyrim could torch the place.

    Alduins only advantages are in his dragon shouts. How some of these would affect Kalameet and if he could get off these words before he gets into a brutal melee/magic breath duel I dont know.

  39. Kitten Lord May 15, 2013 at 5:15 pm -      #39

    And to add to that, Alduin does not “have” to die for Kalameet to win and vice versa just incase Alduins immortality comes up. Kalameet only has to “knock out” his foe.

  40. OberHerr May 15, 2013 at 8:37 pm -      #40

    I also wonder if Alduin CAN be KO’ed.

  41. Anonymous May 15, 2013 at 11:28 pm -      #41

    Alduin was a pansy of a final boss, and at the end his soul wasn’t even absorbed.

  42. Negative Zero May 16, 2013 at 12:09 am -      #42

    “Alduin was a pansy of a final boss”
    Subjective.

    Nobody cares.

    Adds nothing to the debate.

  43. Namer May 16, 2013 at 6:16 am -      #43

    @Negative at post 29.

    The phrasing came out as totally wrong. I meant to mean that despite Alduin being able to literally cause something to be (whether it be a Earthquake or Hell Raining down or a flood) by simply speaking it in the Voice (Which is normal speech for him. There is a reason why a battle between dragons is called a deadly verbal debate), he never shows his full power. And he has power in spades.

  44. Negative Zero May 16, 2013 at 11:08 am -      #44

    It doesn’t matter if he’s never shown his full power, he’s still shown enough power to wreck Kalameet from what I’ve seen. That’s all that really matters.

  45. Namer May 16, 2013 at 1:38 pm -      #45

    It’ll be a damn close fight, either way. I’ll let the people who actually have played both Dark Souls and Skyrim decide.

  46. Cananatra May 16, 2013 at 1:50 pm -      #46

    It wont be close at all. Shouts mean that Kalameet is paste realy fast.

  47. OMEGAMI May 16, 2013 at 2:54 pm -      #47

    Does Alduin now all shouts, or did the game limit him to only a few, because he could literally rap till he wins, time slow and ethereal, and all that.

  48. Cananatra May 16, 2013 at 3:01 pm -      #48

    Technically all dragons know all shouts. It’s their normal language.

  49. Epicazeroth May 16, 2013 at 5:07 pm -      #49

    Alduin would know all Shouts except Dragonrend (which he could technically say, but can’t comprehend so it would have no effect). I believe this came up in Balrog vs Alduin. He’s been around as long as the language.

  50. OberHerr May 17, 2013 at 1:29 am -      #50

    Yeah, Alduin could basically do whatever the hell he wanted, just by yelling it at Kalameet. So, Kalameet gets pwnt.

  51. Mr. happy May 18, 2013 at 10:03 am -      #51

    wait can’t alduin be harmed without having dragonrend used on him unless that has already been addressed?

  52. Negative Zero May 18, 2013 at 11:51 am -      #52

    Yes, he can.

    But why does that matter? Does Kalameet suddenly have the Dragonrend shout?

  53. Kitten Lord May 18, 2013 at 11:59 am -      #53

    Dragonshouts are being used as a sort of no limit fallacy. He can only be proven to know the shouts he has actually shown doing, we dont know what shouts he can actual comprehend or not. He being old does not necesserily mean he can do “anything” a debater on factpile can think of.

    Based on whats actually shown rather than what can be assumed Kalameet has many attacks Alduin also has or can be compared to.

  54. PrimusxPilus May 18, 2013 at 12:20 pm -      #54

    @kitten
    They are indeed but not the way you’re implying. Dragon shouts are them JUST SPEAKING, so yes Alduin knows them all save Dragonrend, which was created by Dragonborn. All he needs to say is “fire” and fire comes to be. All this knowledge is in the game. Have you played it? The NLF is the damage that fire would do. It’s been discussed almost as a one shot kill. Idk the other wyrm so I stop here

  55. Kitten Lord May 18, 2013 at 12:30 pm -      #55

    I have gone through and finished both games many times. Granted Skyrim a while back, but saying “fire” and fire coming into be is one thing but suggesting he can do whatever he wanted like OberrHerr said is a no limit fallacy. He can do whatever he has proven to be able to do, and whatever he has proven to do in the games.

  56. Cananatra May 18, 2013 at 12:42 pm -      #56

    The shouts in the game are enough for him to win anyway.

  57. Kitten Lord May 18, 2013 at 12:46 pm -      #57

    Which ones? Apart from maybe “time” I cant see the othersas being that overpowered. And if he gets assaulted in melee which Kalameet often attempts in Demonsouls Alduins not going ot be saying much is he.

  58. Kyuuketsuki May 18, 2013 at 12:49 pm -      #58

    Time slow would be useful and the one were he becomes invincible, I forget the name, that would be useful in combat.

  59. Kitten Lord May 18, 2013 at 12:51 pm -      #59

    The invincible one, if your refering to ethereal stops him from fighting as well. Its like brief intangbility. Time slow could be a game winner granted ut it all revolves around speech, which with Kalameet breathing fire down Alduins lungs and clawring his head is going to be difficult.

    Theres also the fact Alduin through CIS iirc never used time slow. This is not a bloodlusted match. Fire blasts and maybe fire storm may be first used.

  60. Kyuuketsuki May 18, 2013 at 1:00 pm -      #60

    Thats it ethreal, and even if it stops him from fighting it gives him time to plan, and wouldn’t Kalameet have to get to him first to do that, I mean its not like they start off in combat

  61. Cananatra May 18, 2013 at 1:01 pm -      #61

    Well lets say he starts out with Summon Fog. Does Kalameet have special senses? If he doesn’t his visibility is now massively limited. Not a problem for Alduin though who just uses Aura Whisper and can now see Kalameet wherever he is. Already a big advantage for Alduin but he’s not finished yet. Next comes mark of death, because massively weakening your opponent is always fun followed swiftly by Drain Vitality. Now Kalameet is weakened and having his life siphoned from him.

    For defence Alduin always has Become Etherial which solves any rush problems he has as he can just ghost up and get some more room. More offensive wise though we have Bend Will , and mind fuck attacks are always fun. Does Kalameet have any feats of resisting them? Cyclone is also a useful shout, considering the massive surface area the wind has to act upon with a giant dragon. Then there is the normal attacks of fire and frost breath of which alternating the two could be very dangerous. Not forgetting Ice form, because freezing a target solid is always fun. Next for some lightening fun is Storm Call, because lightening bolts hitting your opponent is a nice way of killing them. Of course, who can forget Alduins own meteor strom which can also cause plenty of havoc.

    Then there is the time slow you mentioned.

    So plenty of ways to screw over Kalameet, even indirectly.

    “Theres also the fact Alduin through CIS iirc never used time slow. This is not a bloodlusted match.”

    Irrelevant. FP basic rules have both sides going no holds barred to kill the other.

  62. PrimusxPilus May 18, 2013 at 1:02 pm -      #62

    @kitten
    So you’re ignoring key points (lore granting Alduin all shouts save one, and this is lore on ALL dragons, not a few, not hearsay, etc) based on game balancing, CIS, pis? Then this:

    ” *
    The invincible one, if your refering to ethereal stops him from fighting as well. Its like brief intangbility. Time slow could be a game winner granted ut it all revolves around speech, which with Kalameet breathing fire down Alduins lungs and clawring his head is going to be difficult.

    Theres also the fact Alduin through CIS iirc never used time slow. This is not a bloodlusted match. Fire blasts and maybe fire storm may be first used.”

    You argue a possible win with tine slow he didn’t use in game. You are acknowledging him KNOWING A SHOUT HE DIDN’T USE.

    Hypocrite.

  63. Namer May 18, 2013 at 1:04 pm -      #63

    @55 : Its a NLF supported by all of Canon and Lore.

    Time Stop would literally let Alduin fly circles around Kalameet. Not that he already can… Kalameet would be utterly screwed in Melee with a combination of Time Stop and Elemental Fury. That point is Moot. Kalameet’s main advantage would lie in his ranged attacks.

  64. Rookie May 18, 2013 at 1:06 pm -      #64

    @Cananatra
    “The shouts in the game are enough for him to win anyway.”

    If we count only the shouts that Alduin ever use in game then no, it won’t be enough. Fog? Dragons in Dark Souls always lived in fog. Storms and so on? That nasty for sure, but Kalameet survived inferno, death, crystal magic and lighting spears. Fire? Kalameet is a dragon too. Also let’s not forget that Kalameet actually have more limbs to use in battle.
    But if we count all the shouts in the game then yes, this will be hard for Kalameet. Alduin can use dragonred and force Kalameet to fall on the earth while he himself stay high in the sky. But Kalameet have his telekinesis and maybe he can catch Alduin with it. Timeslow also nasty.
    Overall yes, Alduin should be much more powerfull than Kalameet, but Kalameet actually have enough battle experience to somehow compensate what he lacks in power.

  65. Cananatra May 18, 2013 at 1:10 pm -      #65

    Nice reply rookie with absolutely nothing backing it up.

  66. Rookie May 18, 2013 at 1:14 pm -      #66

    @Cananatra
    “Nice reply rookie with absolutely nothing backing it up.”


    Well for example…
    “Fog? Dragons in Dark Souls always lived in fog.”
    From 0:10:

  67. Cananatra May 18, 2013 at 1:18 pm -      #67

    And that in no way invalidates its obscuring effects.

  68. Kitten Lord May 18, 2013 at 1:22 pm -      #68

    @Primus

    I like your whiny sounding tone, it suits you but I never ignored “lore granting alduin all shouts”, I dont recall that part of the lore of course and i ask for that evidence but CIS is relevent on factpile young Pilus I am afraid.

    Thats not hypocrtiical, I pointed out some facts. I said time slow can potentially give him a heftier advantage, but CIS, e.g. Alduin not generally opening with whatever you think would be most useful to him in the game is relevent.

    @Canatra

    “FP basic rules ”

    Read rule 8, CIS generaly stands. This includes Alduins apparet lack of using/spamming all these shouts at any point in the game. Same with all the dragons the Dova faces. infact the game suggests each dragon has a specific element it prefers and uses.

    “Well lets say he starts out with Summon Fog. Does Kalameet have special senses? If he doesn’t his visibility is now massively limited. Not a problem for Alduin though who just uses Aura Whisper and can now see Kalameet wherever he is. Already a big advantage for Alduin but he’s not finished yet. Next comes mark of death, because massively weakening your opponent is always fun followed swiftly by Drain Vitality. Now Kalameet is weakened and having his life siphoned from him.”

    Well lets add up the amount of words all of this would take, each word, especially the 3 worded shouts take a fair while to do when youve got another dragon trying to plough into you. I dont know about Kalameets senses but fog only weakens eyesight, not sound which a large dragon shouting words like Alduin is going ot be doing a lot of.

    It wont take much for Kalameet to storm the other dragons head and Kalameets fire is iirc longer reaching.

    If he goes ethereal first then that only stops him from being hit, does it make you invisible? I dont recall, but if not Kalameet just has to follow.

    I find a lot of those powers are less useful, I would say Kalameet is a quicker flier than Alduin as well but I dont remember Alduin moving much. Granted however, time and bend will could be useful. I dont recall Kalameet having mental resistance.

    But this is mostly conjecture, on one hand a few powers could be useful, on the other Alduin has proven he prefers fire storm and fog at best and relies on guessing on what Alduin “may” use out of all his words he knows.

  69. Rookie May 18, 2013 at 1:32 pm -      #69

    @Cananatra
    “And that in no way invalidates its obscuring effects.”


    How could dragons live and breed in this fog if they can’t sense each other?
    I don’t recall if the fog can curse the opponent but anyway Kalameet survived Seath magic that can curse his foe. So he definetly have some level of protection.


    Now could you bring any piece of Elder Scroll lore or game video with Alduin using his timeslow or Become Etherial shouts against his enemies? Because Alduin looks to me that he is way too arrogant to use them.

  70. Cananatra May 18, 2013 at 1:37 pm -      #70

    “Read rule 8, CIS generaly stands. This includes Alduins apparet lack of using/spamming all these shouts at any point in the game. Same with all the dragons the Dova faces. infact the game suggests each dragon has a specific element it prefers and uses.”

    I’m familiar with the rules. However Alduin is capable, as of lore, or using these. Discounting game mechanics, which are always discounted, he is able to use them as much as he wants. His CIS is never shown to stop any of that when game mechanics are removed.

    “Well lets add up the amount of words all of this would take, each word, especially the 3 worded shouts take a fair while to do when youve got another dragon trying to plough into you. I dont know about Kalameets senses but fog only weakens eyesight, not sound which a large dragon shouting words like Alduin is going ot be doing a lot of.”

    You’re making baseless assumptions now. It is not specified how close the combatants are. You are also ignoring the simple ability of just straight up flying in the opposite direction while reeling off the shouts. If the first shout is one which buys time, such as the time one, the others can easily be used. You also need to prove that Kalameet could prevent Alduin reeling off the shouts even if he got in close combat. As for the fog, you’d have to show Kalameet can either see through it or otherwise navigate towards alduin in it. Just saying he could follow the sounds of the shouts wont cut it because first off one of the shouts is to throw your voice and secondly it isn’t that easy to follow a sound in thick fog because fog changes the way sound moves in air.

    “It wont take much for Kalameet to storm the other dragons head and Kalameets fire is iirc longer reaching.”

    And now prove he can do anything to stop Alduin speaking.

    “If he goes ethereal first then that only stops him from being hit, does it make you invisible? I dont recall, but if not Kalameet just has to follow.”

    Fog solves that problem.

    “I find a lot of those powers are less useful, I would say Kalameet is a quicker flier than Alduin as well but I dont remember Alduin moving much. Granted however, time and bend will could be useful. I dont recall Kalameet having mental resistance.”

    The speed issue is guesswork. Unless you can quantify them you cant say one way or the other.

    “But this is mostly conjecture, on one hand a few powers could be useful, on the other Alduin has proven he prefers fire storm and fog at best and relies on guessing on what Alduin “may” use out of all his words he knows.”

    No, all we know is which powers the coders had him use in each appearance. As per canon he knows them all and is free to use them all.

    “How could dragons live and breed in this fog if they can’t sense each other?
    I don’t recall if the fog can curse the opponent but anyway Kalameet survived Seath magic that can curse his foe. So he definetly have some level of protection.”

    It could be thin fog, it could change density, they could fly above it, they could marco polo till they found each other. So any number of ways.

    “Now could you bring any piece of Elder Scroll lore or game video with Alduin using his timeslow or Become Etherial shouts against his enemies? Because Alduin looks to me that he is way too arrogant to use them.”

    You are asking for a video of an action he is prevented from doing ingame. Obviously I can not give you that. I will however once again point out, game mechanics are not used in FP debates.

  71. Rookie May 18, 2013 at 1:50 pm -      #71

    @Cananatra
    “It could be thin fog, it could change density, they could fly above it, they could marco polo till they found each other. So any number of ways.”


    Well I can’t bring anything to prove my point, so let’s say you win.


    “You are asking for a video of an action he is prevented from doing ingame. Obviously I can not give you that. I will however once again point out, game mechanics are not used in FP debates.”


    You have a point. But still here’s the problem. Alduin used his fog shouts three times against Dovahkin and party then it was obvious that it won’t work against them. After this Alduin decied to attack 4 opponents at once. And I doubt that he forget that prior to that he losed to only two opponents. This shows us that Alduin is either very arrogant or way too stupid then it comes to direct battle. So you see it doesn’t matter if Alduin know all shouts, he maybe way to arrogant or stupid to use them in battle.
    Now if you could bring any ingame lore that proves that Alduin is a smart fighter this may help.

  72. Kitten Lord May 18, 2013 at 1:53 pm -      #72

    @Canatra

    “Alduin is capable”

    Thats not the same as willing, you dont know what tactics Alduin has beyond whats shown, and his tactics have never included what youve listed unless you have sohwings of such. A persons charactero r actions are not game mechanics. Mechanics are the fact that soul tear does 300 damage for example.

    “could follow the sounds of the shouts wont cut it ”

    I need more of an explanation why you think Kalameet is somehow deaf, “one” shout is to throw your voice yes, and thats all it does, if Alduin is going to be shouting that over and over again “maybe” he could rely on Kalameet following that while hes doing it. meanwhile hes not attacking with other shouts.

    “You’re making baseless assumptions now”

    The only assumption I have made is that their within sight of eachother, maybe a hundred or so meters granted, meanwhile your basically “making up” a list of tactics you want Alduin to use, not what he has ever used even though the game shows us that he never uses those shouts even in Valhalla when it would have been useful.

    “You also need to prove that Kalameet could prevent Alduin reeling off the shouts even if he got in close combat”

    My suggestion would claw his face, breath fire on him, things Kalameet does. You have proof Alduin can speak through having his face mawled?

    “The speed issue is guesswork”

    Its more educated guesswork based on having played both games and having seen both fly.

    “No, all we know is which powers the coders had him use in each appearance. As per canon he knows them all and is free to use them all.”

    Thisi s the most ridiculous response yet. The coders and those who make the game decide everything about the Dragon, they have a lot more say in it than you do, and they have decided Alduin prefers to do those powers when attacking.

    “game mechanics are not used in FP debates.”

    Indeed, neither are player made conjectures based on nothing. Instead we use what characters have shown, whining about how the coders didnt allow Alduin to do it is simply admitting the makers of the game did not think it prudent or in Alduins mindset to just slow time.

  73. Cananatra May 18, 2013 at 1:55 pm -      #73

    “You have a point. But still here’s the problem. Alduin used his fog shouts three times against Dovahkin and party then it was obvious that it won’t work against them. After this Alduin decied to attack 4 opponents at once. And I doubt that he forget that prior to that he losed to only two opponents. This shows us that Alduin is either very arrogant or way too stupid then it comes to direct battle. So you see it doesn’t matter if Alduin know all shouts, he maybe way to arrogant or stupid to use them in battle.
    Now if you could bring any ingame lore that proves that Alduin is a smart fighter this may help.”

    You’re bringing up game AI now and scripted sequences. So once again, game mechanics. Incidentally there are mods out there that improve dragon AI.

  74. Rookie May 18, 2013 at 1:57 pm -      #74

    @Cananatra
    “ou’re bringing up game AI now and scripted sequences. So once again, game mechanics. Incidentally there are mods out there that improve dragon AI.”


    Intresting… well I can’t win this one too.

  75. Kitten Lord May 18, 2013 at 2:01 pm -      #75

    @Canantra

    “mods out there that improve dragon AI.”

    Which are not canon to the game and are irrelevent.

  76. Cananatra May 18, 2013 at 2:08 pm -      #76

    “Thats not the same as willing, you dont know what tactics Alduin has beyond whats shown, and his tactics have never included what youve listed unless you have sohwings of such. A persons charactero r actions are not game mechanics. Mechanics are the fact that soul tear does 300 damage for example.”

    And we don’t assume a character is an idiot unless the character is proven to be. In lore dragons are at least as smart as humans if not substantially more so. Also you seem not to understand game mechanics. The dragons landing and fighting you tooth to sword when they don’t need to are game mechanics. The dragon using some decent brains, flying to the nearest mountain and dropping boulders on you from 2000ft up is what would happen without the mechanics in play. Alduin staying at 2000ft and spamming storms is smart. Alduin staying under 200ft and attacking you directly is game mechanics. Do you see the difference yet?

    “I need more of an explanation why you think Kalameet is somehow deaf, “one” shout is to throw your voice yes, and thats all it does, if Alduin is going to be shouting that over and over again “maybe” he could rely on Kalameet following that while hes doing it. meanwhile hes not attacking with other shouts.”

    Do you live in an area that never gets thick fog? In thick fog you cant tell which direction sound comes from with nearly as much accuracy as on a clear day. Hell in bad enough fog it often sounds like it’s all around you. Then of course Alduin can be a decent distance away, and moving. Meaning even if Kalameet has amazing hearing, by the time he flies there Alduin is elsewhere.

    “The only assumption I have made is that their within sight of eachother, maybe a hundred or so meters granted, meanwhile your basically “making up” a list of tactics you want Alduin to use, not what he has ever used even though the game shows us that he never uses those shouts even in Valhalla when it would have been useful.”

    You are getting hung up on the differences between game and lore. We use lore in matches not game mechanics. The canon says Alduin knows them. If I’m smart enough to think up using fog (which incidentally Alduin uses in game) then so is Alduin.

    “My suggestion would claw his face, breath fire on him, things Kalameet does. You have proof Alduin can speak through having his face mawled?”

    You really aren’t getting this are you? What exactly do you think is there to stop him speaking? Unless Kalameet is carrying a gag and has much more dexterous hands then he seems to it wont stop Alduin speaking.

    “Its more educated guesswork based on having played both games and having seen both fly.”

    Lol. Kalameet spends most of his time on the ground. He never flies above 10ft in the battle. Do you really want to use that sort of combat practice against one another? That aside, you thinking one looks faster is not proving one moves faster.

    “Thisi s the most ridiculous response yet. The coders and those who make the game decide everything about the Dragon, they have a lot more say in it than you do, and they have decided Alduin prefers to do those powers when attacking.”

    Would you please understand the difference between lore and game mechanics? Game mechanics are not used in FP fights. Alduin only using a handfull of shouts is game mechanics. Alduin being a fucking dragon and able to speak his own language is lore and says he can speak his own language.

    “Indeed, neither are player made conjectures based on nothing. Instead we use what characters have shown, whining about how the coders didnt allow Alduin to do it is simply admitting the makers of the game did not think it prudent or in Alduins mindset to just slow time.”

    Seriously, learn the difference between game mechanics and lore.

  77. Cananatra May 18, 2013 at 2:09 pm -      #77

    “Which are not canon to the game and are irrelevent.”

    Using the info to illustrate a point. One which seems to have flown clear over your head.

  78. Rookie May 18, 2013 at 2:31 pm -      #78

    @Cananatra
    “And we don’t assume a character is an idiot unless the character is proven to be.”


    Urhm… but the game itself proves that Alduin isn’t as smart as he could be. As a fighter of course. First this (04:00):
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJY49wVFK0c
    This is part of story, that show us that Alduin rely more on his raw force in direct battle rather then any special ability like the timeslow. And he suddenly decied to let the mage do his weird ritual (I assume that Alduin does’t know how Elder scroll can affect him) after the same mage along with the others managed to surprise him. Not the smartest thing in battle. And then he suddenly decide to go after this mage he doesn’t even try to use timeslow or anything like this.

    Now for the next, Alduin fog shout. This is part of story, I hope you agree. Why in the world he use this shout three times?
    And for the last. Alduin was force to run away from 2 opponents. Later he suddenly go and attack four at once.
    This all proves to us that Alduin isn’t the smartest person then it comes to battle. Or he simply arrogant.

  79. Cananatra May 18, 2013 at 2:38 pm -      #79

    “This is part of story, that show us that Alduin rely more on his raw force in direct battle rather then any special ability like the timeslow. And he suddenly decied to let the mage do his weird ritual (I assume that Alduin does’t know how Elder scroll can affect him) after the same mage along with the others managed to surprise him. Not the smartest thing in battle. And then he suddenly decide to go after this mage he doesn’t even try to use timeslow or anything like this.”

    Well firstly, you do realise that prior to this he could have flown into the middle of a group like that and sat there indefinitely without being killed? SO obviously when someone pulls something brand new on him he isn’t going to have reacted like he knew it was there.

    “Now for the next, Alduin fog shout. This is part of story, I hope you agree. Why in the world he use this shout three times?”

    Why not? Costs him nothing, briefly inconveniences his foe.

    “And for the last. Alduin was force to run away from 2 opponents. Later he suddenly go and attack four at once.”

    That’s the magic of Plot.

  80. Rookie May 18, 2013 at 2:42 pm -      #80

    @Cananatra
    “Well firstly, you do realise that prior to this he could have flown into the middle of a group like that and sat there indefinitely without being killed? SO obviously when someone pulls something brand new on him he isn’t going to have reacted like he knew it was there.”
    Yep and if someone surprise you like that< you surely should be more careful in the future, right? And not let the weird mage do his weird ritual.

    "Why not? Costs him nothing, briefly inconveniences his foe."

    Three times. How many times Alduin should try something to see that it isn't working?

    "That’s the magic of Plot."

    And story. Alduin is sure looks like he was arrogant or stupid when he act as fighter after all of that. Well to me at least.

  81. Cananatra May 18, 2013 at 2:50 pm -      #81

    “Yep and if someone surprise you like that< you surely should be more careful in the future, right? And not let the weird mage do his weird ritual.”

    He did try and crisp the mage with fire, but since he didn’t actually go on fire I’d guess the scroll was already active to a certain degree.

    “Three times. How many times Alduin should try something to see that it isn't working?”

    That’s not what I mean. He can use that, just toss it off, to get some breathing space ect. He forces the other side to counter it.

    “And story. Alduin is sure looks like he was arrogant or stupid when he act as fighter after all of that. Well to me at least.”

    When you think about it, after all that, it still didn’t kill him. Sure it inconvenienced him by tossing him around time, but that didn’t realy do much to him did it?

  82. Rookie May 18, 2013 at 3:04 pm -      #82

    @Cananatra
    “He did try and crisp the mage with fire, but since he didn’t actually go on fire I’d guess the scroll was already active to a certain degree.”

    But that just prove my point about Alduin rely more on direct attack, rather than something special like timeslow then he is in the middle of the fight.

    “That’s not what I mean. He can use that, just toss it off, to get some breathing space ect. He forces the other side to counter it.”

    Yes and that would be great if he use this in the miidle of the fight. Use it, get some distant, eat some souls and then back to the fight. But he never use it like that. He know this shout, but he doesn’t know how to use it right in the battle.

    “When you think about it, after all that, it still didn’t kill him. Sure it inconvenienced him by tossing him around time, but that didn’t realy do much to him did it?”

    Who knows. He will be back thats for sure, I just hope that he will spend some time in learning and testing how to use his shouts in battle to get some advantage.

  83. Negative Zero May 18, 2013 at 3:39 pm -      #83

    “He can do whatever he has proven to be able to do, and whatever he has proven to do in the games”
    That’s nice.

    So the strongest dragon in Skyrim’s history has a speech impediment.

    Yeah….no. He could logically use all the shouts.

  84. Namer May 19, 2013 at 6:06 am -      #84

    Alduin lost a fight/retreated three times so far. Once at the End of the Dragon War when he was banished via the Elder Scroll, the second time against the Dragonborn and Paarthurnax at the Throat of the World and the third time in Sovngard.

    The first time he was defeated, it was because Dragonrend had been used against him. Dragonrend is anathema to Dragons. It forces their immortal natures to experience mortality like men and mer.

    The second time, the Dragonborn was aided by Paarthurnax, one of the oldest and strongest remaining dragons in the world.

    The third time in Sovngard, Dragonrend again.

  85. Kitten Lord May 19, 2013 at 7:14 am -      #85

    @Canatra

    “Do you see the difference yet?”

    Yes, what you describe first is not game mechanics but what Alduin has actually done, wheher hes been programmed to do it is irrelevent, everything in the game is coded or programmed from the story to actual mechanics which is not what your describing. What you describe second is what you think you would do if you were Alduin, your not proving anywhere thats what Alduin would do, has done because your not him, and saying what you think would be sensible in his position is not the same as what a character has actually done. Kratos could just as rightly smash his way out of most puzzle chambers with his bare hands, but the truth is he didnt because you have to take into account what actually happened not what “you” think is sensible. Dante could easily have used quicksilver every fight after he acquired it or spend the majority of the game in his more powerful Devil trigger, he never does…theres such a thing as character. Your missing it and trying to shove off Alduins actions as mechanics.

    “Do you live in an area that never gets thick fog? ”

    Ancedotal, do you have some evidence for your claims, then further reasoning beyond “Alduin could just be elseware!”, Kalameet could be also. The power of shouts lasts only a certain duration, hes going to have to keep taking account of all the shouts he uses and then the timing to keep up things like fog and aura sense.

    “which incidentally Alduin uses in game”

    This is the only part of your next comment thats actually true, infact the only comment youve made actually proven by the game. Just because a player with hindsight and sitting in their study and comfy room thinks of it oesnt mean Alduin can on the fly in the middle of battle, your giving him feats, actions and character you cannot prove. Handwaving everything Alduin does as simple gameplay when actually, a lot of the things he does are during cinematics as well is daft, worse still when your making things up on the fly.

    “You really aren’t getting this are you? ”

    What the part where your ignoring what is required to speak? e.g. a moving tongue and mouth? Since when do you need a gag to stop someone from speaking? Playing silly buggers not going to convince me of anything.

    “Game mechanics are not used in FP fights”

    No, and neither are fan fictions which you seem to enjoy spouting. But the lore, and what is shown in the game is used which is what I am refering to.

    “Seriously”

    Seriously actually use the lore your talking about rather than making things up on the fly because you think its sensible or because you think its what you would do. Your not in the match, whispering in Alduins ear.

    “Kalameet spends most of his time on the ground”

    Go and play the game, Kalameet in the battle is wounded by a Giant fireing a huge spear into his wing. Unless this fight has Kalameet hobbled and barely able to fly from the giants spearlike arrow he has full flight. Combined with a greater range of flame breath (which could easily disapate fog btw due to heat on said vapour/water particles). All Alduin has as a trump card are shouts, which he rarely uses beyond you apparently making things up on the fly.

    “Sure it inconvenienced him ”

    Thats a downplay, it ruined his plan completly. Alduin plays a lot of daft roles, in your mind I am sure he could just drop rocks from hundreds of meters up on all his enemies, assuming you were pulling his strings but thats not how he works. Alduin has as Rookie mentioned shown arrogance and he does not use his strengths, flight or shouts to the effect “you imagine” him doing.

  86. Kitten Lord May 19, 2013 at 7:31 am -      #86

    @NZ

    “He could logically use all the shouts ”

    Like Dragonrend amrite? :)

  87. Negative Zero May 19, 2013 at 12:35 pm -      #87

    @Kitten Lord
    You know what I mean.

    Dragonrend is the only shout a dragon can’t do, as it (if I remember correctly) was invented by people to combat them.

    Still, every other shout is fair game for Alduin.

  88. OberHerr May 19, 2013 at 12:47 pm -      #88

    The reason Alduin doesn’t use his full power in the game is simple.

    1. Budget reasons. Bethesda could only have so many attacks for him. The meteor shower and flames were all he could use because that all they could probably afford.
    2. Gameplay reasons. If he could just say what he wanted to happen into an attack, he would’ve invincible to the Dragonborn. You couldn’t kill him with what you have available to you. So, they made him weaker.
    3. Plot-Insuduced stupidity. He’s arrogant in the game. He doesn’t think the Dragonborn could even stand before him.

  89. Aelfinn May 19, 2013 at 1:20 pm -      #89

    Kitten Lord’s denial of Alduin’s Shouts is endemic to most of his debates, at least from what I’ve seen. Whether it’s Cloud’s choice of Materia, or DBZ going to King Kai’s planet, or Alduin’s choice of shouts, Kitten Lord finds that characters must fight in the manner they did in their canon.

    Which I suppose makes sense, or at least some. You know, CIS and all that. It’s no longer the character who’s doing the fighting, just the “skill-set”.

    However, what I see Kitten Lord denying (things like Alduin’s shouts) are in fact clear-cut examples of PIS once they are studied. I will link to Forgot About His Powers, which was changed from Plot Induced Stupidity on TV Tropes.

    “When a character has the Idiot Ball slipped into their pocket while they weren’t looking, causing them to forget to properly use their abilities or powers to stop a bad guy or get out of a situation”

    tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ForgotAboutHisPowers?from=Main.PlotInducedStupidity

    When a character has no moral problem, no logical explanation for them not to use a power that could quickly and easily end the fight, they have been hampered with Plot Induced Stupidity. The Plot of Skyrim is that you beat Alduin, and if he is not using all of his powers that he would logically have, then he is being Stupid for the Plot.

  90. Kitten Lord May 19, 2013 at 2:10 pm -      #90

    @NZ

    “Still, every other shout is fair game for Alduin”

    If you cant generalize all the shouts being able to be done by dragons, Dragonrend being a good example of one he cant do for good reasons then how do you know some of the others are not similiar? You dont know either way, theres no mention iirc of a dragon doing many of the shouts.

    @Aelfinn

    “Kitten Lord finds that characters must fight in the manner they did in their canon.”

    Yes it does make sense, a character does not necesserily have to be stupid not to be debated as a “skil set” as you put it. Simply in many cases, you cant assume characters are as combat worthy in certain situations as you would like them to be. You dont see Alduin fighting other dragons iirc in the game.

    “hampered with Plot Induced Stupidity”

    You cant prove that though since there is absolutly no showing, plot based or required that shows Alduin as some adept shout user, the belief every Dragon shout is simply doable by a dragon by speaking normally is not necesserily the case because Dragonrend shows us that a dragon has to be able to concieve and understand said shout himself. what is being suggested in here is Alduin as a “skill-set”, it cannot be proven he was simply being stupid for the plot, since there is no evidence to support him being this clever strategist who knows and can think up on the fly (with another dragon on him from the get go) exactly what shouts he would want in good order.

    Its only “defintatly” PIS when you know a character generally acts a certain way, or has no qualms about using their powers in a certain way and then suddenly “gains” or “loses” this ability for the sake of the plot. To assume this works with Alduin, you would have to prove that not only would Alduin be victorious with no chance for the Dragonborn had he used all his powers which I disagree with since the Dragon born by then no doubt has most of the same shouts AND dragonrend to ruin Alduin in the first place but also that Alduin is a proficient fighter in Dragon debate and you can prove he does these moves such as time control and what not in those circumstances.

    Theres no reason why Bethesda, plot or otherwise couldnt have shown some of these shouts for Alduin if they wanted fans to get the idea he could have done all this if he wanted to easily.

  91. Negative Zero May 19, 2013 at 2:22 pm -      #91

    “If you cant generalize all the shouts being able to be done by dragons, Dragonrend being a good example of one he cant do for good reasons then how do you know some of the others are not similiar? You dont know either way, theres no mention iirc of a dragon doing many of the shouts.”
    I just explained why.

    Dragonrend was made by mortals to combat the dragons, if I remember correctly.

    Your argument can be summed up exactly like this, “This guy comes from an English speaking family, but he only knows a few words of English.”

    Yeah….

  92. Kitten Lord May 19, 2013 at 2:52 pm -      #92

    Considering some areas of London that could make sense. If you were argueing against the quality of education in some boroughs but trying to use it as an analogy for why a Dragon who needs to do more than just speak, but to understand know said words and speak them in a certain way makes no sense. Did you listen to the greybeards? theres more than just “knowing” how to say words in the dragon tongue.

    Dragonrend was, it was still in the dragon languae though and Dragons cannot do it, how do you know for certain none of the other shouts are mortal made? You realise most of these carvings and dragon shout walls the Dragonborn learns shouts from are buried deep underground in the tombs of ancient nords. Simply assuming a Dragon knows them “all” and will use them fluently (without evidence) in savage combat with another dragon (who wont just shout at him) is falty.

  93. PrimusxPilus May 19, 2013 at 3:02 pm -      #93

    It’s faulty, not “falty”, and the lore would support them knowing dragon shouts. But kitten, we know how you roll, so debating is now pointless

  94. Kitten Lord May 19, 2013 at 3:06 pm -      #94

    Well you “trying” to debate is pointless, you wont get much headway due to your own impotence, dont try and generalize everyone under your own banner. And I never said they didnt know “dragon shouts”, I said you dont have proof they know all shouts, and due to the fact theres one they dont know/cant comprehend there leaves question for what ones they do know.

  95. OberHerr May 19, 2013 at 3:11 pm -      #95

    The graybeards say that the dragons cannot do Dragonrend because it’s something they can’t comprehend. It was designed to be used against them. It’s purpose is it makes them feel morality, which shakes them up to the point where they can’t fly. Dragons can’t use it because it’s against their nature. No other shout has been shown to even vaguely be this way. And unless you can provide evidence that they can’t be comprehended by dragons, your argument is invalid.

    Also, saying something in the dragon language does make that effect. It’s putting those words into a Thu’um that does it. All the dragons can say the words in Dragonrend, but they cannot use them because it’s uncomprehendable to them.

  96. OberHerr May 19, 2013 at 3:15 pm -      #96

    As for the dragon language on the walls, and words, those were put there during the time when the dragons ruled. They had a lot of humans under their control, as shown by the Dragon Priests.

    And it should be noted that most shouts in the game can be seen being used by various types of dragons. Some, like Call Dragon, aren’t used for obvious reasons.

    And the Greybeards are able to kill someone by merely TALKING to them, if they don’t have a strong enough Th’um. These are merely humans. You really think Alduin, the Eater of World, a part of Akatosh, is not gonna be able to do what the Greybeards can do?

    And lore ALWAYS trumps gameplay, or game mechanics.

  97. Kitten Lord May 19, 2013 at 3:17 pm -      #97

    @OberHerr

    “your argument is invalid.”

    Not at all, because your argument as is NZ is that as long as dragons can speak their own language they can do what they want within that, but Dragonrend is also in their own language, they just cant comrehend it, throwing the theory (that was wrong in the first place, its more than just speaking) that Dragon speech is exactly the same as a shout, Dragons shout but they have to comprehend fully what their doing, you cant prove all the powers the Dragonborn learned are just as comprehensible to dragons as any other shout or indeed Dragon Rend.

    Its up in the air what “shouts” were mortal made, and theres no precedent for any one shout being common knowledge among dragons, even Alduin. Theres not really any grounds at all apart from conjecture and asking loaded questions of “surely Alduin as old as he is knows it!!” as if age is an automatic accumulation of knowledge.

  98. OberHerr May 19, 2013 at 3:19 pm -      #98

    And regardless, Alduin was killed by a mixture of PIS, TES prophesies, game mechanics, and plot-required mechanics.

    Kalameet has none of these things going for him. Alduin would probably think of Kalameet as a more worthy foe than a human anyways, not that arrogance should be taken into account anyways.

  99. Kitten Lord May 19, 2013 at 3:21 pm -      #99

    @OberHerr

    “what the Greybeards can do?”

    The greybeards can kill a person. You cant stretch to say they can kill anyone without a strong enough Th’um as that would be a no limit fallacy, let alone a dragon.

    “As for the dragon language on the walls, and words, those were put there during the time when the dragons ruled. They had a lot of humans under their control, as shown by the Dragon Priests.”

    I never said otherwise, that does not mean Dragons ordered them or tought them those words anymore than they tought them how to do Dragonrend which they did not. Many of these tombs are deep, some places of which some Dragons may have never even ventured due to their size.

  100. Kitten Lord May 19, 2013 at 3:23 pm -      #100

    @Ober

    “Alduin was killed ”

    He was simply killed by a plot item/power, a combination of Dragonrend and the power of the dragonborn in Valhalla, things snowballed against him sure, but then Kalameet was shot out of the sky, he is completly unfightable in Darksouls without the use of the Giant Gough shooting him down.

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