Caius Ballad Vs Sephiroth

Caius Ballad Vs Sephiroth

Suggested by Kuja9001

Amazingly, this is the debut appearance of Caius Ballad on FactPile. He faces off against Sephiroth, both of whom are from the Final Fantasy franchise.

For this battle, everything goes.

Who would win?

Related Posts:



Read before commenting! We welcome constructive comments and allow any that meet our common sense criteria. This means being respectful and polite to others. It means providing helpful information that contributes to a story or discussion. It means leaving links only that substantially add further to a discussion.

Comments being disrespectful to others or otherwise violating what we believe are common sense standards of discussion can lead to the banhammer getting used. You can read more about our comments policy here.



121 Comments on "Caius Ballad Vs Sephiroth"

  1. Jedah Dohma May 2, 2013 at 7:13 am -      #1

    Well, this was bound to happen eventually

    Anyways, any relevant feats for Caius Ballad? I’ve heard he has a meteor that’s less destructive but can be more easily summoned than Sephiroth’s, although can anyone give me any feats of strength, speed, durability, etc?

    Initial bets with Sephiroth

  2. Neon Genesis Fallstar May 2, 2013 at 8:20 am -      #2

    Sephiroth takes this from what I know

  3. Murder May 2, 2013 at 8:50 am -      #3

    Gaius Baltar is a genius but he is vulnerable to pretty blondes. I think that if Gaius has Six in his head he’ll be able to overcome the pretty blonde girls sexual advances.

  4. VunderGuy May 2, 2013 at 9:02 am -      #4

    @Murder

    HA!

  5. Commander Cross May 2, 2013 at 9:07 am -      #5

    Its Caius, not Gaius.

    Geez, even I can actually get this spelling regard correct most of the time unless I feel we’re dealing with some inane unrepenting jackass. =_=’

    Initial bets says this could be anyone’s game at the moment so I’ll go sit this one out and just watch, for now.

  6. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 9:21 am -      #6

    @ murder
    Frack, so say we all

    I need to wrap my head around this match before I make any statements here

  7. Messmaker May 2, 2013 at 10:54 am -      #7

    from what ive heard, (i have not played the games) sephiroth takes this rather easily

  8. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 11:02 am -      #8

    Sephiroth doesn’t have time manipulation on Caius’ level though. Sephy is likely physically faster though and I’d put them at about equal skill with swords with Caius having Better combat casting feats compared to Sephy’s lacking in that department although Sephy should have a larger spell arsenal. It’s tough to call.

  9. Hellion Nick May 2, 2013 at 11:10 am -      #9

    Lol once posted Caius vs Dante long ago when I just finished FF13-2.

    On topic though, to start off with both have insane blades in terms of “how do you even handle them”.

    Both have no apparent weaknesses.
    They both have access to Flight, Time manipulation, Teleportation.
    Both can can summon to an extend, though this is just extra information that is irrelevant due to FP rules.

    @Jedah
    For strenght I am inclined to say he is on sephiroths level, however durability is actually an unknown part of Caius and I hope that FF13-3
    will actually shed some light on that.
    As for speed I thought Caius was at least supersonic if not faster, though it should be noted this is as Chaos Bahamut.
    Which is also Caius his access to flight.
    Ow and for the meteors, yes Sephiroths meteor is stronger without a doubt being said to be able to wipe out a whole planet.
    However it takes weeks to arrive, as where Caius can summon his meteor in a blink of an eye. That meteor still needs to come crashing down but it is already in the sky when summoned

    For now I say it is most likely gonna come down to their unique abilities like Caius his Time Travel or Sephiroth his Negative Lifestream.

  10. PrimusxPilus May 2, 2013 at 1:58 pm -      #10

    @Nick
    Summoning isn’t outside the rules dependent on their mechanics. FF7 summoning is in fact NOT outside help due to the summoning of a bound minion that is under control without the need for placating/bargaining.

    Sephiroth is immune to magicks courtesy of “lawl I haz all materiuhz”, preventing time fuckery, absorption via shield, etc

    I know not the other effeminate character. Anybody care to enlighten me?

  11. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 2:19 pm -      #11

    Caius can summon a literal army of minions. Ff13 summons for the party aren’t really considered outside help but I’m not sure if Caius’ follow the same method or not.

    He can also cast a multicity block meteor with a wave of the hand as well as wide scale comet magic. His durability is about 1ton TNT range if Ruin functions like explosives in terms of blast radius. And he casually took being blasted through 3 , 1ft thick solid stone walls. That’s all I got ATM but there is a respect thread kicking around somewheres

  12. PrimusxPilus May 2, 2013 at 2:30 pm -      #12

    @dassadec
    Thanks. How fast are these meteors? How fast is he? How durable are these army summons? We all know Sephiroth had some durability, insane strength/speed (speed blitzing bullet timers and all), and magic resistance/immunity/absorption. I’m fairly confidentSephiroth can manage summoned mook armies with magic or just “lawl I’ll swing my sword horizontally and bisect them with energy projections”

  13. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 2:38 pm -      #13

    “How fast are the meteors”

    Not all that fast, but fast enough to be aflame from reentry

    “How fast is he?”

    He keeps up and eventually defeats Goddess Lightning, who was a bullet timer in the first cutscene of the first game, before gaining any real special powers.

    How durable are these army of summons

    I’m fairly certain Sephy can 1 shot most of them but were still talking hundereds to thousands aerial and ground forces

  14. Hellion Nick May 2, 2013 at 3:30 pm -      #14

    Regarding the summons, I am pretty sure the summons would actually start having their own battles with each other while Caius and Sephiroth go at each other, and will be one shotted by stray attacks of either party.

    Also Caius is so to speak the Overseer of Time/Space. How would Sephiroth defend against Caius his actual time travel.

  15. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 6:29 pm -      #15

    Here’s the lightning and caius respect threa with videos and time indexes
    www.factpiletopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=40135

  16. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 6:40 pm -      #16

    @ hellion
    “Regarding the summons, I am pretty sure the summons would actually start having their own battles with each other while Caius and Sephiroth go at each other, and will be one shotted by stray attacks of either party.”

    The numbers would be heavily on Caius’ side in monster vs monster, all the summons in the FF7 world only number 20 or so but a bit more powerful to be sure.

    “Also Caius is so to speak the Overseer of Time/Space. How would Sephiroth defend against Caius his actual time travel.


    This is caius’ best advantage IMO it takes him zero effort to shift through time

  17. Zazax May 2, 2013 at 7:23 pm -      #17

    “a bit more powerful to be sure.”
    Understatement of the year. Aside from Caius himself (and perhaps his other two Bahamuts, but we don’t know where they come from; whether he summons them or they just show up or what), Caius has nothing that even shoot back at Bahamut Zero, let alone something like KotR (each of which was about the same size as or bigger than the WEAPONs)

    That said, I’m still betting on Caius. I even recall reading somewhere that Word of God said he was supposed to be the most powerful FF villain yet, which considering we have people like Kuja, Kefka and Exdeath is no laughing matter.

  18. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 7:40 pm -      #18

    @zazax
    That should have read “quite a bit more powerful” lol. The Riftbeasts are likely on par with Titan level summons 1v1 then the power tips heavily on the ff7 side when you talk about Hades , Leviathan+

  19. Jedah Dohma May 2, 2013 at 8:33 pm -      #19

    “That said, I’m still betting on Caius. I even recall reading somewhere that Word of God said he was supposed to be the most powerful FF villain yet, which considering we have people like Kuja, Kefka and Exdeath is no laughing matter.”

    Given the feats of the guys you mentioned outstrip Caius’ own, I wouldn’t take that at face value

  20. Kuja9001 May 2, 2013 at 8:48 pm -      #20

    Speed- Caius easily matched and defeated Lightning who was capable of dodging a small meteor at blank range(watch——->www.youtube.com/watch?v=umQ6Z8myWJ4#t=5m32s and she chased Caius from Etro’s Temple down to the beach(watch—>www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLTYm_0Qg9s#t=9m4s

    They’re(Caius & Light) are equal in all stats.

  21. Jedah Dohma May 2, 2013 at 8:54 pm -      #21

    Well Cloud dodged a flare bolt attack from Kadaj for what it’s worth and Sephiroth is far superior to him in all stats for speed points

  22. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 9:30 pm -      #22

    As it stands right now
    Speed- sephiroth has the slight edge here

    Durability- I’d have to say caius since Sephy’s only real feat was impalement by the buster sword which really fucked him up
    Skill and experience – Caius is thousands of years old charged with protectin the seer for all time

    Magic- even. Sephy pack a larger arsenal of spells that pack a bit more punch than caius but Caius has faster casting speed and better combat casting feats. Caius also has true time travel as fast as he can wave his hand so he might actually get the nod in this category

    Summoned forces- Caius has the numbers advantage while Sephiroth has the brute force advantage I’d call this category pretty even as well.

    CiS- Sephiroth is notorious for toying with his opponents( cloud repeatedly) and underestimating them to the point he gets killed

  23. Jedah Dohma May 2, 2013 at 9:35 pm -      #23

    “I’d have to say caius since Sephy’s only real feat was impalement by the buster sword which really fucked him up”

    He also survived being shoved through a building by Cloud in AC without losing momentum, he emerged unscathed

  24. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 9:38 pm -      #24

    @ Jedah
    True enough. But that building was nowhere near as solid as the 3 Caius was blasted through Vs Lightning in Valhalla

  25. Kuja9001 May 2, 2013 at 9:50 pm -      #25

    Caius has had skyscrapters and crap drop on him.

  26. Kuja9001 May 2, 2013 at 9:51 pm -      #26

    “Skyscrapers”

  27. Jedah Dohma May 2, 2013 at 9:52 pm -      #27

    Okay, I’ll concede that point, just pointing out that Sephiroth has more durability feats than just being impaled on the Buster sword is all

  28. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 10:01 pm -      #28

    @ jedah
    All good, man. I hadn’t recalled much damage sephiroth took in AC aside from Clouds final blow anyway.

    What do you guys think of the assessment in post 22 anything to add ?

  29. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 10:08 pm -      #29

    @ jedah
    There is also a scene with Caius at the Epicentre of a 50-80 meter radius magical explosion somewhere I’m sure it’s in the respect link but I can’t find vids to link ATM

  30. Kuja9001 May 2, 2013 at 10:39 pm -      #30

    There is also a scene with Caius at the Epicentre of a 50-80 meter radius magical explosion somewhere I’m sure it’s in the respect link but I can’t find vids to link ATM
    —–
    This?——>www.youtube.com/watch?v=umQ6Z8myWJ4#t=12m56s

  31. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 11:35 pm -      #31

    For some reason I can never load your links Kuja ill have to check it when I’m at a PC

  32. Dassadec May 2, 2013 at 11:49 pm -      #32

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbUQiF45V_k
    At 8:15, It’s the same blast Odin tanks with his shield, Chaos bahamut form, but still.

  33. Kuja9001 May 3, 2013 at 12:22 am -      #33

    I never thought about him being there as his Mega Flare explodes as a durability feat thanks.

  34. Namer May 3, 2013 at 4:09 am -      #34

    Both of them are on almost equal levels. Whatever planet this take place on will not survive.

    Sephiroth matches kind-of annoy me, because despite being such a popular character, he has surprisingly few quantifiable feats.

    I’m giving a slight edge to Caius.

  35. Hellion Nick May 3, 2013 at 12:07 pm -      #35

    Actually now that I think of it, since these two are so evenly matched I am inclined to say that Caius his Time Travel is gonna win him this match. Because he can gradually learn about Sephiroth his style of fighting and learn a point in the fight where he can turn the match completely in his favor.
    Also would Sephiroth decide to summon his meteor and it would be close to arival at some point, Caius can just reset the match like nothing happend.

    So even though I love both of these charaters I am going to put my money out on Caius.

  36. Kuja9001 May 3, 2013 at 10:48 pm -      #36

    Caius was stabbed in his heart and his physical body had died but he came back to life just in time to destroy the world.

  37. Dassadec May 3, 2013 at 11:04 pm -      #37

    @ kuja

    It’s looking like caius may edge Sephy out here now that were looking at it.

  38. Kuja9001 May 4, 2013 at 12:18 pm -      #38

    About Caius being the most powerful, it was mistranslated into English, it really said that he was ONE of the strongest rivals.

  39. The Geek Lord May 5, 2013 at 2:36 pm -      #39

    Haven’t beaten XIII-2 yet, but Caius is pretty serious. Still, idk if he’s on the same level as Sephiroth.

  40. dougierules13@gmail.com May 26, 2013 at 8:30 pm -      #40

    sephiroth all the way first of all hes a nobody and all nobodies ar immune to all non-magical attacks and second off all when he “dies” he comes rises from the dead to see another day now when Caius thinks Sephiroth is dead hes acctualy not so Caius work is not done. Sepi is the leader of the nobodies and has so much power with his 5 elements he cant be destroyed. BEAT THAT BITCHES ( I know Caius can’t)

  41. Kuja9001 May 26, 2013 at 10:23 pm -      #41

    What the hell?

    1st- He’s not a nobody, you’re thinking of Xemnas.

    2nd- He needs a bunch of Jenova Cells in order to revive himself.

  42. Jedah Dohma May 27, 2013 at 12:43 am -      #42

    “He needs a bunch of Jenova Cells in order to revive himsel”

    That and it takes too long to revive himself, so by them Caius would be considered the winner

    And wtf is with the nobodies shit?

  43. Dassadec May 27, 2013 at 1:15 am -      #43

    Nobodies are the main bad guys in Kingdom hearts. They have absolutely nothin to do with the fight at hand

  44. Gluttonous-Behemoth May 27, 2013 at 1:18 am -      #44

    @Dougie
    You dun goofed.

  45. Dassadec May 27, 2013 at 1:25 am -      #45

    Much as Sephy is a badass, Caius has him matched in power, beaten in skill and durability. And loses in the speed by a narrow margin. Handwave casted time travel ensures he will know Sephiroths first few moves just by engaging and shifting back to the start o the fight any time things get hairy.

  46. dougierules13@gmail.com May 27, 2013 at 8:14 am -      #46

    i knew he was a no body i just wanted to see peoples reaction and 2nd of all fuck u he needs those cells to over write other peoples existent

  47. Dassadec May 27, 2013 at 11:28 am -      #47

    Sephiroth never overwrote anyone’s existence. I have no idea what you are trying to say. Please organize your writing and only being relevant feats to the fight.

  48. Soldier's Shadow June 10, 2013 at 10:29 pm -      #48

    How did Caius win this one exactly?

  49. ZeroTheBloodedge July 9, 2013 at 4:33 pm -      #49

    @Soldier’s Shadow:
    Caius Ballad is almost the same in fighting abilitys with Sephiroth, BUT with the Heart of Chaos that make him Imortal and time traveling powers, Caius can beat Sephiroth easily… He even summon a giant meteor of crystal to smash Valhala, the place where a god live… AND SUCCEDED!!!
    Nothing against Sephiroths Super Nova, but to destroy the entire Solar System and fail to kill 3 persons(even beign said that attack is most eye candy) Caius is the winner.

  50. Dassadec July 9, 2013 at 5:20 pm -      #50

    @SS
    I broke it down in Post 22 but basically Caius only loses in the speed category and there by a small margin, he has a couple heftier durability Feats over sephiroth and brings comparable physical offensive capability. Their magic is almost identical but Caius has legit time travel and can BFR someone to another time like nothing. All this couple with thousands of years of experience (5000 IIRC) he has all the tools to bring sephiroth down a majority of the time. I think Sephiroth could win 20-30 of 100 though with his speed advantage since the best we can assume for Cauis is “at least billet timer”

  51. Kuja9001 July 9, 2013 at 7:48 pm -      #51

    Still don’t understand what happened here

    m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=nLTYm_0Qg9s

    2 min mark(can’t tell whether he dodged that lightning or not).

  52. Dassadec July 10, 2013 at 1:47 am -      #52

    Oh okay, there Light castes Thundaga at Caius, he dodges the inital bolt and avoids the wide scale aftermath while preparing for her next attack.
    I wouldn’t go calling Caius a lightning timer cause of it though magical lightning and all that but it was a good speed feat in close range against someone as fast as she is.
    As I was watching that I want to call attention to the real game changer. At2:20 Caius shows just how easily he can phase through time that is sick. Just disgustingly OP

  53. Kuja9001 July 10, 2013 at 12:22 pm -      #53

    Magical Lightning?

  54. PrimusxPilus July 10, 2013 at 12:46 pm -      #54

    Poor Sephy.. He has to get more feats lol. Probably won’t happen though

  55. Soldier's Shadow July 10, 2013 at 5:59 pm -      #55

    “Durability- I’d have to say caius since Sephy’s only real feat was impalement by the buster sword which really fucked him up”

    Sephy endured the same kind of “crashing through a building” as Caius in Advent Children. He was just fine and long gone and recovered by the time Cloud followed through the flight path.

    “Magic- even. Sephy pack a larger arsenal of spells that pack a bit more punch than caius but Caius has faster casting speed and better combat casting feats. Caius also has true time travel as fast as he can wave his hand so he might actually get the nod in this category”

    Being that Sephiroth is faster than Caius, he’ll be slinging spells faster including ones like Silence or Death.

    “CiS- Sephiroth is notorious for toying with his opponents( cloud repeatedly) and underestimating them to the point he gets killed”

    Only with the VII gang. Caius doesn’t get any kind of mercy.

    “True enough. But that building was nowhere near as solid as the 3 Caius was blasted through Vs Lightning in Valhalla”

    Do you know this for sure?

    “beaten in skill and durability.”

    Durability is even as far as evidence is showing. Skill? Just because Caius is older doesn’t mean he has more skill than Sephiroth.

    So far, the only thing of note that Caius seems to have over Sephy is the Time Travel ability. Most stats are around even.

    “Handwave casted time travel ensures he will know Sephiroths first few moves just by engaging and shifting back to the start o the fight any time things get hairy.”

    Not if he’s silenced, petrified or restrained by telekinesis.

    -

  56. Dassadec July 10, 2013 at 6:29 pm -      #56

    Good points all I can address is th building feat ; sephiroth was blasted through was similar to an office building , glass , drywall, perhaps steel studs if Midgar construction is similar to ours. In comparison to Caius being sent through 3 buildings which gave no indication of them being anything other than solid stone. Stamina is easily in Caius favour here as well since he fought Lightning for a minimum 200years in Valhalla.

  57. Soldier's Shadow July 10, 2013 at 7:53 pm -      #57

    “In comparison to Caius being sent through 3 buildings which gave no indication of them being anything other than solid stone”

    Or something like cement.

    “Stamina is easily in Caius favour here as well since he fought Lightning for a minimum 200years in Valhalla.”

    Is that really to be taken as literal? Were they fighting 200 years straight or just fighting across 200 years? Huge difference.

  58. Kuja9001 July 10, 2013 at 8:28 pm -      #58

    Is that really to be taken as literal? Were they fighting 200 years straight or just fighting across 200 years? Huge difference.
    —-
    Well they fought a never ending battle.

  59. Soldier's Shadow July 10, 2013 at 9:01 pm -      #59

    ” Well they fought a never ending battle.”

    I get that but it could be less of 200 years of straight fighting and more like a war. Take the Hundred Years War for example. It wasn’t fought every day for 100 years nonstop. Just fighting across that period of time.

  60. Kuja9001 July 10, 2013 at 9:17 pm -      #60

    Valhalla is a timeless realm so we don’t know exactly how long it lasted.

  61. Dassadec July 10, 2013 at 9:27 pm -      #61

    “Hundreds of years” is how they described it. They were the only two combatants in the “war” other than their summons. So I’m inclined to believe they were fighting nonstop. Even if not, his stamina does have a better feat than sephiroth still

    Basically, all or most of Sephiroths wins in this match are when he blitzes hard an lands a good shot early, the longer the match lasts; the better for Caius.

  62. Soldier's Shadow July 10, 2013 at 9:39 pm -      #62

    “Valhalla is a timeless realm so we don’t know exactly how long it lasted.”

    ““Hundreds of years” is how they described it. They were the only two combatants in the “war” other than their summons. ”

    Then this feat would be unquantifiable being that we can’t tell whether it was nonstop or not beyond speculation.

    “Even if not, his stamina does have a better feat than sephiroth still”

    No proof suggests so. Sephiroth fought Cloud casually without any signs of tiring in Advent Children and even in a weaker incarnation, did not even tire when he fought Genesis in CC.

    PIS/CIS may have something to do here but in AC, despite the injuries he sustained like being sent through a building, he wasn’t very much phased by it enough to hinder him.

    -

  63. Dassadec July 11, 2013 at 3:26 am -      #63

    Sephiroth’s building durability feat.
    youtu.be/FAVwPR5E8wM 2:20
    Caius building feat 9:00
    youtu.be/DbUQiF45V_k
    At 8:20 he survives being at epicentre of that explosion too
    2:40 survives being frozen solid and proceeds to one hand stomp Shiva.
    3:43 his blade beams are meteor(multi city block) busting after being redirected
    11:00-11:50 he takes a barrage of clean hits from Lightning and has all that rubble fall on him , he is up and unfazed in less than a minute

  64. Dassadec July 11, 2013 at 1:30 pm -      #64

    At 10:10 in that vid we have an actual bulletimer feat now as well his sword comes up AFTER she already pulled the trigger twice. Sure you could say he only blocked it due to his sword’s size but he reacted and that the feat of RT. actually now his Rt is quantified better than Sephiroths( who never actually bullettimed) I don’t mean to claim or believe Sephiroth is anything less than a bulletimer though since he routinely overpowers high level ones like Zack and Cloud. But in terms of actual feats all Sephiroth has for speed is powerscaling.

  65. Soldier's Shadow July 11, 2013 at 1:43 pm -      #65

    “But in terms of actual feats all Sephiroth has for speed is powerscaling.”

    WoG states that Sephiroth is the most powerful of SOLDIER and has shown himself to be better than either Cloud or Zack so why would he be any less than a bullet timer? Even in movement speed, Sephiroth has been shown to move faster than Caius does except as Chaos Bahamut.

    “3:43 his blade beams are meteor(multi city block) busting after being redirected”

    Where the hell does multi city block busting even come from based of it destroying big rocks?

    “At 8:20 he survives being at epicentre of that explosion too”

    It shows the dragon fire off that blast and then after Lightning lands safely, he just appears. Out of he teleported out of the way or he wasn’t in it. We didn’t see him as the dragon hit by it.


    Durability also won’t matter much if he’s turned to stone by Sephiroth’s more powerful moves like Pale Horse.

  66. Dassadec July 11, 2013 at 2:04 pm -      #66

    WoG states that Sephiroth is the most powerful of SOLDIER and has shown himself to be better than either Cloud or Zack so why would he be any less than a bullet timer? Even in movement speed, Sephiroth has been shown to move faster than Caius does except as Chaos Bahamut.

    Note I said I didn’t accept sephiroth as anything other than a high level bullet timer for the same reason a for the speed thing if you pay close attention to the distances Caius an Lightning are covering they seem comparable to cloud vs sephiroth.

    Where the hell does multi city block busting even come from based of it destroying big rocks?

    The multi city block was meant for the meteor spells damage my bad but it was just a feat I was thr

  67. Dassadec July 11, 2013 at 2:20 pm -      #67

    Sorry iPhone

    “It shows the dragon fire off that blast and then after Lightning lands safely, he just appears. Out of he teleported out of the way or he wasn’t in it. We didn’t see him as the dragon hit by it.”

    Alright, then its a teleport or speed feat I guess, decent either way.

    “-
    Durability also won’t matter much if he’s turned to stone by Sephiroth’s more powerful moves like Pale Horse.”

    finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Heart_of_Chaos
    This is Caius’ provisional immortality, he actually has to allow himself to be killed by a designated guardian. And his time powers allow him to Rez himself if the Heart wasn’t destroyed. Ill try to dig up the time the party “kills him”
    I know stone=/=ice but Caius did shrug being frozen solid off like nothing and has enough physical force in one hand to toss shiva into her sister and send them both about 50-75m near casually.

  68. Soldier's Shadow July 11, 2013 at 7:42 pm -      #68

    “The multi city block was meant for the meteor spells damage my bad but it was just a feat”

    But how can that be gauged as a multi-city block level attack? Where’s the calcs?

    “This is Caius’ provisional immortality, he actually has to allow himself to be killed by a designated guardian. And his time powers allow him to Rez himself if the Heart wasn’t destroyed. Ill try to dig up the time the party “kills him””


    Would still count as an incapacitation from the fight if Sephiroth pulled off Pale Horse, Break or Supernova. PH can inflict Frog, Break can turn him to stone, and Supernova can cause Silence. Last one isn’t a BFR move, but would remove his magic as a factor.

    Caius is said to be in FFLR so I don’t think Serah and Noel killed him.

    “I know stone=/=ice but Caius did shrug being frozen solid off like nothing and has enough physical force in one hand to toss shiva into her sister and send them both about 50-75m near casually.”

    Physical force won’t matter if he can’t even move his arms when turned to stone.

  69. Dassadec July 11, 2013 at 8:34 pm -      #69

    “But how can that be gauged as a multi-city block level attack? Where’s the calcs?”

    It was the cause of all the comets ripping up the landscape. Seemed an appropriate description since there were dozens of comets, each easily capable of cratering a 2 storey building

    Incapacitation yes but is a minute or so a reasonable length of time? not in my mind otherwise Wolverine wouldn’t be so hard to put down on FP. It has never taken Caius more than 3-4 minutes(generally less) to phase back after a defeat at 100% capacity

    All in all it’s Caius’ broken time powers seeing all possibilities and such instant time phasing that seal this IMO. Right from the first swing all Caius has to do is time skip to capitalize on where he know sephiroth will be. I tend to think sephiroth opens with his sword from the get go

  70. Soldier's Shadow July 11, 2013 at 8:51 pm -      #70

    ” It was the cause of all the comets ripping up the landscape. Seemed an appropriate description since there were dozens of comets, each easily capable of cratering a 2 storey building”

    That’s a sustained barrage of the comets. A single comet is a building buster, something Sephy is with just his strength or TK.

    “Incapacitation yes but is a minute or so a reasonable length of time? not in my mind otherwise Wolverine wouldn’t be so hard to put down on FP. It has never taken Caius more than 3-4 minutes(generally less) to phase back after a defeat at 100% capacity”

    Sephiroth defeated Wolverine here in the same manner I’m suggesting he can defeat Caius.

    “All in all it’s Caius’ broken time powers seeing all possibilities and such instant time phasing that seal this IMO. Right from the first swing all Caius has to do is time skip to capitalize on where he know sephiroth will be. I tend to think sephiroth opens with his sword from the get go”

    That didn’t save him from being hit by his own redirected Ruin attack from Lightning, her attacks, and attacks from Noel.

  71. Dassadec July 11, 2013 at 9:04 pm -      #71

    “That didn’t save him from being hit by his own redirected Ruin attack from Lightning, her attacks, and attacks from Noel.”

    PIS and location limitations; against Lifht he was in Valhalla there was nowhere to time travel to in that place it being timeless. And vs Noel, Caius always wanted Noel to kill him all the way through 13-2 he was holding back I mean when Noel finally”kills” Caius. It’s pretty much just Caius making sure Noel keeps holding the blade while Caius makes Noel stab him

  72. Soldier's Shadow July 11, 2013 at 9:23 pm -      #72

    I stand corrected but I don’t see how Caius would afford any chance to pull off his tricks to kill Sephiroth when there’s nothing really stopping Sephiroth from going all out with his spells and TK. He doesn’t get the CIS/PIS benefit of the VII crew that would stop him from being opened up on in any matter of ways.

  73. Dassadec July 12, 2013 at 2:53 am -      #73

    I’m not so sure all of Sephiroths cockiness and toyin with opponents evaporates against Caius. I mean Cocky, taunting, playing is how he fought Genesis as well in FF CC he toys with everyone doesn’t matter if you are cloud and Co. Or not. Cockiness is definitely a Sephiroth character trait

  74. Soldier's Shadow July 12, 2013 at 3:11 pm -      #74

    Genesis was his friend and rival and Sephiroth knew that he was going to beat him so he acted smug and arrogant. Caius is just his opponent here with no connection to him whatsoever.

  75. Dassadec July 12, 2013 at 3:48 pm -      #75

    But there is nothing that suggests Sephiroth would do any different; precedence has been set

  76. Soldier's Shadow July 12, 2013 at 4:11 pm -      #76

    He killed loads of Shinra mooks without a second thought in VII and they mean as much to him as Caius does.

    The “precedence” is skewered as these were people with reasons as to why he didn’t full out obliterate them. Cloud was someone he wanted to make suffer and toy with which resulted in his downfall in AC whereas Genesis was his friend at the time.

    Caius means to him about as much as a chocobo does so he does not achieve such a level of mercy.

  77. Dassadec July 12, 2013 at 9:56 pm -      #77

    “He killed loads of Shinra mooks without a second thought in VII and they mean as much to him as Caius does.


    Those are all offscreen. He could have toyed with them too we have no way of knowing. During the nibelheim incident he didn’t hesitate at all but that wa sephiroth bloodlusted
    -

  78. Zazax July 12, 2013 at 10:13 pm -      #78

    I know it’s in gameplay, but he also does casually one-shot a dragon during the Nibelheim flashback in the original game and uses the highest-level magic he has available in his materia at the time. No holding back there.

  79. Dassadec July 13, 2013 at 1:55 am -      #79

    Zazax, can you agree that arrogance is an intrinsic part of Sephiroths character?

  80. Zazax July 13, 2013 at 4:38 am -      #80

    Oh most certainly, but that doesn’t necessarily preclude him from using his best stuff right off the bat.
    The big examples we have of him holding back are the fights vs Genesis, Zack, and Cloud. The fight vs Genesis was, until the end, just a sparring match. It makes sense that he’s not trying to kill his friend. Against Zack he knew exactly what to expect and what his opponent was capable of since he helped train him. And he wants Cloud to suffer, not just die. He’s got legit reasons for holding back (or at least a justification for not needing to use his full strength) in all three cases.
    Now, I’m not saying he *will* use his best stuff right away, just that arrogance does not necessarily mean he won’t.

  81. Dassadec July 13, 2013 at 4:59 am -      #81

    Same as Caius’ time powers and such then eh? Well with Caius’ close range bullet timing feat out there now or if it’s not
    youtu.be/DbUQiF45V_k
    10:10. Reacts to Lightning’s gunfire at a range of ~20-30ft this is a better combat RT feat than anything Seph can bring aside from powerscaling Zack or cloud- once again I’m not attempting to de power/ under sell Seph – but he doesn’t have his own Bullet time feat to draw from AFAIK even though he HAS to be one at least though likely higher

  82. Zazax July 13, 2013 at 5:24 am -      #82

    Oh, don’t think I’m arguing for Sephiroth. I said right from the get go that Caius would most likely win. Just trying to clear up some confusion over PIS/CIS and such.
    Another thing to consider is that in the fights against Genesis and Zack he was still limited by what materia he had with him, which as of AC he’s not anymore. It’s entirely possible he didn’t use the Big Three because he didn’t have them (and if memory serves, if you check his gear in the flashback bit of FF7, he doesn’t. He’s just got the standard elemental and recovery magic).

  83. Dassadec July 13, 2013 at 6:13 am -      #83

    I know bro , just was excited finding a bullettimed feat for Caius.

  84. Dassadec July 13, 2013 at 9:18 pm -      #84

    @zazax
    While Seph may have all materia as of AC. Can he still link them? iIRC Masamune only had 6 slots with links so he may be hampered in his utility since all his magic is innate as opposed to “actual” materia.

  85. PrimusxPilus July 13, 2013 at 9:37 pm -      #85

    @Dassadec
    How are you making this assertion? He had them all “in him”, therefore HE is linking all at once. You link IN Masamune, he had them as part of his innate powers. He has status ward, he has stop/time, they’re both in him, part of his soul, he’s immune. Your logic is also fundamentally flawed because in the gear you’re using knowledge of ancients not your own like “stop” and “be immune to”. Sephiroth can do this with willpower alone. Furthermore in. AC (current incarnation) its a

  86. Zazax July 13, 2013 at 9:39 pm -      #86

    “While Seph may have all materia as of AC. Can he still link them? iIRC Masamune only had 6 slots with links so he may be hampered in his utility since all his magic is innate as opposed to “actual” materia.”
    I don’t actually know. The only evidence we have is a statement from Word of God that he can use ‘all powers found on materia’ or something to that effect. Now, he doesn’t actually have physical materia, so that implies he can’t link them, but ‘all powers found on materia’ includes stuff like All and Added Effect, implying he can. It’s just a mess.

  87. PrimusxPilus July 13, 2013 at 9:40 pm -      #87

    Psychic construct, he had no materia to put in, and WoG states he can access any spell as if he had all materia. Shit he can do stupid ass links not bound by slot limitations by that logic, but that’s extrapolation

  88. Slayer July 13, 2013 at 9:42 pm -      #88

    Not reading the thread. Someone sum up the arguments for Caius/against Sephiroth

  89. PrimusxPilus July 13, 2013 at 9:43 pm -      #89

    @zazax
    I’m of the belief he can innately link because he’s not borrowing knowledge from ancients to use materia. Ancients did their deeds with innate powers and Sephiroth can to. I believe logically it’s like I said he understands how to put the knowledge “pieces”in order. all linking slots did in game was push two materia with specific functions (pieces of knowledge) together, to work together. My logic anyways.

  90. TheSorrow July 13, 2013 at 9:43 pm -      #90

    There are only 88 comments to go through, is it really so hard?

  91. Slayer July 13, 2013 at 9:47 pm -      #91

    “is it really so hard?”

    Yes

    I was summoned here, apparently arguments of Sephiroth’s CIS or whatever of “not using the materias because he didn’t” or whatever

  92. Soldier's Shadow July 13, 2013 at 9:52 pm -      #92

    @Stealth

    The argument of CIS is that Sephiroth is arrogant towards all of his opponents based on the example of Cloud, Zack and Genesis among named cast members by the opposition. Sephiroth has been known to hold back against Cloud due to PIS and Genesis due to being friends with him thus that led to him holding back.

    Caius lacks any sort of connection to Sephiroth to make him have to hold back in any which way. Opposition denies this.

  93. Slayer July 13, 2013 at 9:58 pm -      #93

    Well Sephiroth’s never been in a position where he’s needed to use any magics. Since like you said about Cloud, Zack, Genesis and Angeal, other than that everyone else is so much weaker than him to the point where he woiuldn’t need to use anything other than being super strong and fast tbh

  94. Soldier's Shadow July 13, 2013 at 10:05 pm -      #94

    Beyond his time powers, I think Caius is just about done for in this.

    However, I don’t know the full on extent of his time abilities so I’ll refrain from FP award nominations.

  95. Slayer July 13, 2013 at 10:08 pm -      #95

    Well, personally I don’t see why Seph wouldn’t use his magics on Caius when he realises Caius is putting up alot moar of a fight then some Shinra mook

  96. Dassadec July 13, 2013 at 10:09 pm -      #96

    Now that Cauis has a better speed/RT feat than Seph now the first move is on Caius
    @ primus
    I wasn’t really making an assertion so much as asking a question, the lack of a physical medium the way zazax explained it was what I was thinking. I’m not gonna outright claim he can’t link but I wanted to open a discussion on it since it just kinda came to me. We can only (without any doubt)quantify 3 sets of linked materia from Masamune and 2 more sets from the Gold bangle he had in Nibelheim flashback without making assumptions. Granted they aren’t really much of a reach and I’m not gonna dwell on it more than seeing what the thoughts are.

  97. Dassadec July 13, 2013 at 10:19 pm -      #97

    Caius’ time powers include
    :altering possibility to create paradoxes in the timeline
    : a stop spell that worked on Lightning with all her resistances and similar time powers
    : the ability to time travel to future possibilities created through paradox effects.
    ( he uses this one to effectively Rez himself multiple times in game)
    : basically he has true time travel and mastery over the nuances of it with Bullet time RT to use it in a moment.
    Most of the Time shit Caius brings is used on himself aside from the “superstop” he used on Light so Seph’s time immunities don’t protect from that kind of thing AFAIK

  98. Soldier's Shadow July 13, 2013 at 10:20 pm -      #98

    “Now that Cauis has a better speed/RT feat than Seph now the first move is on Caius”

    No he does not. Being that Sephiroth is stated to be (WoG) and shown himself to be better than either Cloud or Zack, that’s more than enough to permit him a greater speed than either of them.

    -

  99. Kuja9001 July 13, 2013 at 10:23 pm -      #99

    (he uses this one to effectively Rez himself multiple times in game)
    ——
    Actually its the Heart Of Chaos that allows him to res himself over & over.

  100. Slayer July 13, 2013 at 10:26 pm -      #100

    “altering possibility to create paradoxes in the timeline”

    Requires prep to happen in the first place, so out of the question

    “Now that Cauis has a better speed/RT feat than Seph now the first move is on Caius”

    Based off what and since when?

Leave A Response

You must be logged in to post a comment.