Published on April 16, 2013, by admin - Posted in Group Combat 209
Suggested by Striker
Wolverine, X-23, Daken, and Sabertooth
Venom, Carnage, Anti-Venom, and Toxin
Both teams are fully aware of what needs to be done and aren’t shy about getting it done.
Which team would win?
I kinda want to go with the Symbiotes here, but I’ll wait and see.
I think Toxin and Anti-Venom are much stronger than anyone on either side (50-70 ton range)
Prolly true, although Sabertooth did own She-Hulk and Rogue (who are Class 50+) and own a Wendigo who was capable of standing toe to toe with Savage Hulk. That and Sabertooth is a complete psychopath who lacks morals
Granted this isn’t to say Sabertooth is stronger than any of the gaise he bet, since he’s a Class 10+ afaik
Strength in favor of the Symbiotes.
I’d say the Symbiotes have a mobility advantage, but perhaps not a speed advantage (symbiote wall-crawling/web swinging/jumping etc)
cool the admin used my pictures i included in my suggestion as well.
For this match it is the mac gargan venom
and the cletus cassidy carnage
and the eddie brock anti venom
I think the symbioted have the advantage in strength, mobility, and defense.
And the mutants have the advantage in
brutality, speed, and endurance.
Which Toxin are we talking about, for that matter?
As much as id rather the Wolvie team to win … I think the Venom team has this … as far as brutality goes … yeah the mutants are brutal … but Cletus alone is a psycopath and more brutal than all on both sides
Symbiotes also get range advantages.
Theres only been one Toxin and its a lab experiement not a regular person i believe.
Sabertooth is just as psycocotic and homicidal as Cletus in my opinion
Wow. An actual match with Wolverine, Sabertooth, X-23, and Daken all in one, and it not being called a stomp.
Sadly, I know very little about the Symbiotes, aside from that they’re ridiculously strong and able to cover more ground faster.
I think, given the circumstances, Wolverine, Sabertooth, X-23, and Daken would end up working together to take down the Symbiotes. I don’t know how though, aside from they don’t like fire and sonic wave emissions.
“Sabertooth is just as psycocotic and homicidal as Cletus in my opinion”
Also, Sabertooth and Wolverine both have over a hundred years of experience.
Carnage if I’m not mistaken fully merged with Cletus yes? meaning, basically it’s just fully red goo through with no squishy human center? Thats why he’s always been more powerful than Venom?
Kinda hard to kill just a sociopathic red goo man that has all the powers of Spider-Man on roids….and Spider-Man, while unable to kill the Healing Factor side, can any in a fight. This is four Spider-Men that have said powers on roids, and can eat things on the cellular level. Wolverine and X-23 might survive due to metallic skeletons and all but Sabertooth and Daken will…become the minions of Carnage….and become extensions of the will of Carnage…and then shit gets worse for the adamantium duo.
the only toxin i’m aware of is the one spawned from carnage. I’m definitely going with the venom team, considering that when venom is the weak link on a team they have some seriously heavy hitter (aka toxin and anti-venom who are ridiculousely powerful). Also considering that I don’t think the wlverine team will have access to sonic shit or fire I think it’s gg because to be honest if anything team one would get tired before team two unless they have unlimited stamina, since I don’t think in marvel regeneration directly translates to stamina.
Honestly if it were vs anything else daken would have a really good chance of fucking them up with his pheremones, but since the symbiotes aren’t human it stands to reason it wouldn’t be very effective :/
lets assume that for this match none of tthe symbiotes can take any of the mutants as a host
also i think venom and anti-venom would die if one of the mutants decapitated them.
But they would be insanely hard to catch/hit
so no taking control, Daken and Sabertooth are still the most vulnerable to being eaten by the Symbiotes
Everyone one on team 1 gets ripped apart except for wolverine.
Spider-Man vs Wolverine 2: Electric Boogaloo
Now that that’s out of the way, I find myself in agreement with Guardian and Crimson Sentry here.
“Both teams are fully aware of what needs to be done and aren’t shy about getting it done.”
The admin wrote this part lol
I mean really, are they ever?
C’mon guys this wolverine vs spiderman all over agian except worse. Here we have toxin whom is a 70 tonner carnage a 50 tonner venom and anti venom maybe 20 tonners team one stands no chance. The way I see it is they rip everyone on team one apart except wolverine since he’s unkillable so they’ll maybe just turn him into a symbiote.
actually anti-mage is also a 70 tonner himself
lol i mean anti-venom ><
“actually anti-mage is also a 70 tonner himself ”
oops I’ve never heard if him so I just made a guess
Anti-Venom’s whole existence is complicated…he was somehow made from a piece of Venom and Brocks white blood cells or something like that….can drain radiation and radiation based mutations to heal people (which is why he’s dangerous to Spider-Man, just being around Anti-Venom makes Spidey weaker)
still suppose I should find some feats so the symbiotes can hurry and have a family lunch of mutants with a side of adamantium.
Anti-Venom can also increase his strength based on muscle mass it allows….so he can make himself more powerful physically. And with it’s further enhanced healing abilities Brock was even able to survive a shotgun blast to the face….something tells me decapitation may not even be enough unless you can keep the symbiote from healing him.
Plus Anti is immune to normal symbiote weaknesses like fire and sonics…so while the others may get weakened Anti Venom can just stop any sonic or fire attacks to free up his palls. Plus he can likely sense the Adamantium poisioning in Wolverines blood (dude can sense if your addicted to heroin or have some impurity in your system….and cure it but I don’t think he can strip the adamantium)
Sounds like Anti-Venom is the most overpowered character here.
eh, he’s about even with Carnage, it’s just he has abilities that are made to counter the symbiotes to a point. other than a couple bonuses he’s the same as the others, good regen, ability to make tentacles and weapons, Spider-Powers etc.
Then there’s Venom’s poisonous fangs, which while not deadly here can cause problems. and if the regenerating team has to break away could allow them to be tracked. And with this being Gargan venom he can use the Scorpions powers including venom spewing tail….one more thing for the regenerating team to worry about when they have a gang of flesh eaters in front of them
Carnage is likely the second most powerful here being able to reach the 80 ton range easily the only thing being weaker than Anti-Venom is the fact that he has Symbiote weaknesses.
Toxin is the most powerful, and is more resistant to the weaknesses inherent in symbiotes, but is stronger than Carnage and Venom combined, can track anyone as long as he has a startpoint, unlimited webbing that looks like steel chains…
he was even capable of soloing Wrecker and Pile Driver (two Thor villains)
“The way I see it is they rip everyone on team one apart except wolverine since he’s unkillable so they’ll maybe just turn him into a symbiote.”
Both Wolverine and Sbaertooth have adamantium frames as well as healing factors that will counter-act the symbiots.
But since both teams no how to kill each other yet only Team 2 is actually killable I’m going with Team 1 roasting Team 2 with a flamethrower. Sabertooth isn’t very shy about using guns and neither is Wolverine. Not sure about Daken and X-23 though.
“Sbaertooth have adamantium frames as well as healing factors that will counter-act the symbiots.”
Proof saber tooth has one on his neck
“Team 1 roasting Team 2 with a flamethrower. Sabertooth isn’t very shy about using guns and neither is Wolverine. Not sure about Daken and X-23 though.”
Standard equipment? No
“Proof saber tooth has one on his neck”
Sabretooth was subsequently captured by the reformed Weapon X Program, and Adamantium was once more bonded to his skeleton. Sabretooth was used as the Program’s key operative, responsible for recruiting other former Weapon X members back into the fold. Sabretooth recruited the mercenary Deadpool, but failed to recruit his former Team X teammates Maverick and Wraith. Sabretooth was then assigned as back-up on Deadpool’s mission to kill the shape-shifting mutant named Copycat, Deadpool’s former lover. When Deadpool refused to kill her, Sabretooth performed the deed instead.
More on Marvel.com: marvel.com/universe/Sabretooth#ixzz2Qf4vHp6b
Hence why Wolverine had to kill him with the Muramasa Blade when he completely lost his mind.
“Standard equipment? No”
Molotov cocktails will work just fine. All that’s need is gasoline, preferably diesel, and a glass bottle with a piece of cloth. But it would help to know where they are fighting and what weapons they get.
Carnage once possessed Wolverine, so he could probably do it again easily.
And is it me or does Factpile seem empty lately? Not much fun debating with the same people over and over again.
Ima go with team one of this one
Is team two immune to Dakens pheromones or whatever?
Only thing that stands out the rest is just they heal and have sabertooth and wolverine expierence, I don’t know if anything is *needed* to kill the symbiotes like sound or fire or something to that nature so that means Healing team get it
“The first thing we should be introduced to Sabretooth with: Victor Creed spent his entire childhood locked in a seller. It was always supposed that he was put there because of his mutations, his claws and his teeth which his father made a point to continuously remove. Now we know that he had a brother and killed him over a piece of cake, to which he was then put into the basement. In terms of a Creed feat:
SUPERHUMAN STRENGTH: we see his first bit of super strength when he rends a bolted chain from a brick wall as a child. This strength is also supported by Birdy who sees Creed as a child destroying metal restraints as well. He also displays his first major wound to heal when he heals a severed hand afterwards though I seem to have misplaced the scan.”
Sabretooth heals his hand back on in his first encounter with Wolverine.
(Note) This is probably the most prevalent example of just how badly Jeph Loeb can simply F up entire comic book continuities due to the complete disregard and lack of care to established characters and histories. Its garbage like this that makes me wonder just how in the hell he even has a job in comics. His work is more suited for alternate timelines than mainstream stories. When it comes to this particular crap nugget from Wolverine’s past, it completely discredits the entire significance behind Claremonts version of their first encounter and pisses all over why it was significant. The whole point behind their first encounter was that Logan was a man with no fears, no doubt and no limits. That he was never a beaten man… until he met Creed. It was the entire catalyst for Sarbretooth’s superiority complex with Wolverine, and Wolverine’s concession to it. Instead Loeb provides us with a Wolverine who is easily pushed around by the Hand, and an encounter where he makes short work of Sabretooth using a sword. But all this after Sabretooth pulls off a feat that’s almost Deapoolesque in scope? Which was another FUBR on his part, as the revelation that Sabretooth’s healing factor was faster than Wolverine’s was shocking to Logan well into his bone claw days… You think he would have noticed something like Creed re-attaching limbs.”
“Carnage once possessed Wolverine, so he could probably do it again easily.”
He has also resisted Symbiot possession so it really depends on the circumstances and his adrenaline level. Technically both him and Sabertooth can set themselves on fire and continue to fight Team 2 at optimum efficiency.
“He has also resisted Symbiot possession so it really depends on the circumstances and his adrenaline level. Technically both him and Sabertooth can set themselves on fire and continue to fight Team 2 at optimum efficiency.”
-He seemed pretty enthralled in Carnage USA. And Carnage was ripped in half and left to rot in orbit by Sentry. He survived a satellite collision and reentry.
“Is team two immune to Dakens pheromones or whatever?”
Likely. If Team 1 is going to win they have to burn them or wear them out.
But I just remembered that Sabertooth before he died had become a raving psychotic little more then an animal so he won’t be using tactics or work as a team with the rest unless we go back to where is in a sound, at least for him, state of mind. But in his psychotic state with that Muramasa Blade I have my doubts the Team 2 can stop him. But he’s likely to turn on his own team as well. This match is pretty interesting actually since he’s a wildcard in this.
Wait is this just the Symbiotes or will they have their hosts?
last I checked Sabertooth wasn’t adamantium.
Anti-Venom is not affected by Symbiote weaknesses
Toxin is resistant to the Sybiote weaknesses
All of them have regen that lets them survive things such as having a shotgun blast to the face.
All of them massively over power team one to a laughable extent with the weakest among them being 70 ton lifting and the strongest being able to match 100 ton lifters in head on fights. No one on team one has a shits chance in close combat.
“-He seemed pretty enthralled in Carnage USA. And Carnage was ripped in half and left to rot in orbit by Sentry. He survived a satellite collision and reentry.”
Likely it was PIS. Symbiots main weaknesses are Sonic, Heat, and deprivation of a chemical that they need to survive which is located either in chocolate or the brain.
“last I checked Sabertooth wasn’t adamantium.”
You’re wrong then.
Isn’t sabertooth back and not crazy?
“But I just remembered that Sabertooth before he died had become a raving psychotic little more then an animal so he won’t be using tactics or work as a team with the rest unless we go back to where is in a sound, at least for him, state of mind.”
Turns out, it was a clone….again.
And Daken is resurrected.
“Likely it was PIS. Symbiots main weaknesses are Sonic, Heat, and deprivation of a chemical that they need to survive which is located either in chocolate or the brain.”
Like said before this Spiderman vs Wolverine again and that isn’t solved and te sybiots don’t use the same “tactics” as spiderman
so how will they put him down?
“SABRETOOTH VS. WOLVERINE:
OVERALL PERFORMANCE: Sabreooth has what was supposed to be his first real fight with Wolverine in the early 1900’s. Creed successfully beats the tar out of Logan and takes falling off of a cliff he also manages to out scale a cliff to get to the second half of their fight before Wolverine could even though Logan had a head start… This would be the first on panel evidence of Creed sustaining a major advantage over Logan in a h2h fight. ”
“Turns out, it was a clone….again.
And Daken is resurrected.”
Oh. Never mind then. Does he still have the frame cause if not he’s done for and Team 1 stands no chance.
Plot Induced Stupidity. Typically used when characters forget they have certain weaknesses or sprout certain abilities for the sake of plot progression.
“Like said before this Spiderman vs Wolverine again and that isn’t solved and te sybiots don’t use the same “tactics” as spiderman
so how will they put him down?”
-Possession. Or just eat him.
“so how will they put him down?”
They can’t beat him to death so likely possession if they can manage it.
“Possession. Or just eat him.”
Possession seems to be something that has been fought before
“SABRETOOTH VS. WOLVERINE:
OVERALL PERFORMANCE: Sabretooth quickly gets an advantage over Wolverine in a quick h2h pinning him to the ground and pounding him until the fight gets broken up… LOL at Sabretooth’s 70’s look. This would be the second time we see a clear advantage of Sabretooth over Wolverine h2h on panel.”
possession or eating the mutants is likely what will happen.
IIRC, I think he still has it. Not to sure. I might need to go to the bookstore this weekend.
Post 57 was about Sabertooth’s adamantium frame.
“SABRETOOTH VS. WOLVERINE:
OVERALL PERFROMANCE: Wolverine attempts to engage Creed in a fight and is quickly punched across the room for his troubles, while Creed is restrained from continuing the fight. This will be the 3rd example of on-panel evidence of Creed asserting some dominance over Logan in melee. ”
STRENGTH: Creed casually holds up two full grown people with his arm outstretched in front of him. Gambit struggles just to hang on to one.
STRENGTH: Sabretooth nonchalantly crushes a large mutants head with his bare hand.
Also can I get some scans of these guys eating people?
why do I get the feeling claws don’t work on Symbiotes….
Plot Induced Stupidity. Typically used when characters forget they have certain weaknesses or sprout certain abilities for the sake of plot progression.”
-Well he had Cassidy up there with him.
“Possession seems to be something that has been fought before
-He fought it because Spider-man saved his ass.
That’s Grim, Hawkeye, Capt, and Wolverine. All under complete control.
And Carnage eats things. Almost entire slaughterhouses even.
Well if Spiderman vs Wolverine has taught me anything
Then wolverine would know that and find another way he knows would work
By the by where are they fighting?
I’m trying to find some working scans of these guys period.
and since we’re talking about regen
Punisher blows Eddies brains out, he gets up.
Is there a time frame to these feats?
How long did it take to eat the slaughter house? And I doubt he could digest Adamantium and aren’t dakens bones made of adamantium or a mixture ?
“SABRETOOTH VS. IRON FIST (FIRST APPEARANCE)
In Sabretooth’s first appearance, he made it to the books as an Iron Fist enemy. Interesting notes here are that Iron Fist recognizes that Sabretooth fights with no skill at all. We know later that Sabretooth uses his skill but it isn’t until he’s more fleshed out character wise.
INTELLIGENCE: Sabretooth uses his knowledge of the environment to his advantage luring Iron Fist into a trap he’s able to make IF snow blind and take the fight from there.
SPEED: Iron Fist notes how incredibly fast Sabretooth is in combat, showcased when Sabretooth tears Fist’s disguise off at a whim.
OVERALL PERFORMANCE: This is quite a low performance for the Sabretooth that we came to know later on, but for his first appearance and lacking any known superhuman attributes to his credit he does manage to draw IF into a bad position and force him to fight defensively, his durability and fighting skill ”
I know, but the problem is, the main symbiote killing strategy only works on Venom and Carnage, Toxin is resistant and Anti-Venom is flat out immune to them, fire, sonics, won’t be very helpful. And in close combat there’s not much the mutants can do besides get their asses kicked.
just so I have proved it..
Anit-Venom has no symbiote weaknesses.
“I know, but the problem is, the main symbiote killing strategy only works on Venom and Carnage, Toxin is resistant and Anti-Venom is flat out immune to them, fire, sonics, won’t be very helpful. And in close combat there’s not much the mutants can do besides get their asses kicked.”
2 down if they can do it, one weakend by some good hits and One that they can tag team.
“Punisher blows Eddies brains out, he gets up.”
-The shotgun butt seemed to work better.
SABRETOOTH VS. MISTY KNIGHT
SPEED: Sabretooth attacks MISTY KNIGHT before she’s even aware of what’s happened.
OVERALL PERFORMANCE: Decent display in Sabretooth one shotting Misty quite easily until Colleen Wing interjects.”
SABRETOOTH VS. COLEEN WING:
OVERALL PERFORMANCE: Creeds able to land a one hitter quiter on Wing sending her on the immediate retreat.
SABRETOOTH VS. IRON FIST
SPEED: Once again Iron Fist is shocked and astounded by Sabretooth’s sheer speed.
INTELLIGENCE: Sabretooth once again seeks to assert an advantage over Rand by capitalizing on his enhanced powers in the environment.
ENHANCED SENSES: Sabretooth claims to be able to fight in the dark using his sense of smell like radar against Iron Fist.
OVERALL PERFORMANCE: Again another showing of Sabretooth able to use an environment to his advantage, but again another low showing of his skill, and durability which appear piss poor in this fight.
Anti-Venom is knife proof….
…so to speak, Amm0 can attest to Punishers quickness with a knife, not quite what Wolverine and co can do but it’s a good idea of what kind of defense Anti Venom has.
run over head bashed in with a sledgehammer, gets up and chucks the jeep.
Yea I saw the punisher knife thing, yea Frank is quick with the knife, not like wolverines claws but yea that defense is quick, I wouldn’t say Gaara fast but (Symbiote vs Gaara?)
SABRETOOTH VS. MISTY KNIGHT
DURABILITY: Sabretooth shows his first impressive feat of durability where he’s able to take being electrocuted and remain in the thick of things.
OVERALL PERFORMANCE: Nothing to write home about, but wounded and caught off guard by Misty’s arm he DOES manage to quickly incapacitate her all over again. It is of note how effected Sabretooth is by a broken rib or two though. He’s quite injured and it takes him weeks to recover from the injury as any normal man would.
Like I said, was just a sample of what Anti-Venom has going for him.
The Punisher shotgun blasting him point blank in the head is the impressive thing.
SABRETOOTH VS. WOLVERINE: pre-1981-83
SPEED: Sabretooth grabs wasabi and shoves it up Wolverine’s nose from 6 feet away in the time it takes Wolverine to look back and sniff twice, then Creed disappears from a room as fast as it takes Wolverine to get up after being thrown.
STRENGTH:Creed shows a minimal feat of strength ripping an oven out of a wall to throw at Wolverine. He also pins Wolverine to a wall by sticking cooking stakes through concrete.
MINDGAMES: Creed stalks Wolverine all over again, putting on a ninja costume to spy on him from a distance.
OVERALL PERFORMANCE: Sabretooth manages to toy with Logan once again and overpower him in a fist fight. Wolverine only uses his claws for a portion of the encounter which is questionable. This may have to do with Sabretooth’s mind games making Wolverine lose his cool or the book may just be generated towards a younger audience. This is Creed’s 4th on panel win/advantage against Wolverine.
symbiote possesion is not allowed they have to stay with their original hosts i said that already in one of the first posts.
the battle ground is in new york city and starts with both teams facing each other in times square
after that they can go anywhere as long as they dont leave the city
“symbiote possesion is not allowed they have to stay with their original hosts i said that already in one of the first posts.
after that they can go anywhere as long as they dont leave the city”
This can lead to some interesting traps then. Exploding oil comes to mind.
“the battle ground is in new york city and starts with both teams facing each other in times square
after that they can go anywhere as long as they dont leave the city”
Sorry bro but its too late to set the battleground. You have to discuss the scenerio before we hit the 50 post mark
I would have but I lost Internet till about 6:00 today
I lost internet at 1:00 and it took me forever to get the cox people to do something about it
“also i think venom and anti-venom would die if one of the mutants decapitated them.”
Guardian’s scans, at least for Anti-Venom, prove otherwise.
Is there any way to kill the Mac gargan venom by slicing or shooting
“symbiote possesion is not allowed they have to stay with their original hosts”
-What about multi-possession?
“the battle ground is in new york city and starts with both teams facing each other in times square”
-Oh the Carnage fodder.
No posseson means no possession
They can not posses anyone besides there original host
“lets assume that for this match none of tthe symbiotes can take any of the mutants as a host”
Never said anything about “no possession”, if you want to be technical like that. That scan of Carnage had him possessing people without leaving the host body.
No posseson means no possession
They can not posses anyone besides there original host”
-Still fodder. With Cletus comatose, Carnage is deadlier than ever.
“That scan of Carnage had him possessing people without leaving the host body.”
wait…does the city specification in 77 even count? it was made after the 50th post, the no possession thing counts I know but does the rest?
Post # 77
77 is after the 50th post. 50 means “No Rule Changing”.
So possession remains valid unless the community votes otherwise at this point.
you can’t change anything past post 50
so 77 doesn’t count if the City counts Carnage can do anything to people, if it doesn’t then nothing changes
Ok I get it than. I just wish My Internet hadn’t gone out for so long so I could have said this ages ago. But okay the no changes past post 50 rule does make sense if only to keep people from changing the match to help certain characters when their losing.
the rule came from the abuse of just that, during Daken vs Snake
Just out of curiosity who was abusing it?
if I remember right anyway
Oh the irony.
“Ok I get it than. I just wish My Internet hadn’t gone out for so long so I could have said this ages ago. But okay the no changes past post 50 rule does make sense if only to keep people from changing the match to help certain characters when their losing.”
-Think about it like this. Even if they couldn’t change hosts, Carnage has the ability to expand his biomass by ingesting meat, as seen in Carnage USA. He has impressive control over this mass, even to the point of being able to make it act as individuals. And this was before Cleatus went Comatose. If this was in NYC, think of all of the meat. Team 1 would literally be fighting an army/wave of Carnage.
About this whole thing with NY
Is it a rule change or clarification? were they fighting some place already and he is changing it or is he saying the stage for the first time because I have come into this problem late in one of my matches and was allowed to verify but not change
Well technically this is the first mention of where there fighting soi ever changed anything i just clarified
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