Imperium of Man Vs Great Race of Yith

Imperium of Man Vs Great Race of Yith

Suggested by fatazn

In this exciting battle, we pit the Post Heresy Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40K) vs the Great Race of Yith.

Making their first appearance on Factpile and part of the Cthulhu Mythos, the Great Race of Yith are beings of immense intelligence and psychic powers.

They use their psychic powers to travel across time and switch bodies with lifeforms to learn about other races. Originally from the dying world of Yith, the Yithians traveled to prehistoric Earth and created a great civilization before being destroyed by the Flying Polyps and forced to travel even farther into the future.

In their grand cities, they have numerous libraries containing information on all creatures and races in the past, present, future, and beyond including the complete history of humanity from it’s infancy to it’s death.

In this battle, we pit only the Imperium against the Yith.

Will the Imperium of Man survive the might of the Great Race of Yith, or be destroyed like many others by the Yith?

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95 Comments on "Imperium of Man Vs Great Race of Yith"

  1. Dark God of Chaos March 12, 2013 at 7:22 am -      #1

    *shrug* Anyone got some feats for the Yith race?

  2. jhud March 12, 2013 at 7:38 am -      #2

    not me

  3. Praetor Prefect (who knows where his towel is) March 12, 2013 at 8:00 am -      #3

    All i know is that many beings in the Lovecraft-verse drive mortals to madness with their presence, although the IoM deals with Chaos on a day to day basis.

  4. The Expert March 12, 2013 at 8:32 am -      #4

    Im with the imperiuum of man although i know nothing about the yith guys

  5. Praetor Prefect (who knows where his towel is) March 12, 2013 at 8:54 am -      #5

    Ok, I found that the yith can possess the bodies of other species and travel through time. They don’t seem to be very violent but if they could possess important imperials…
    -
    Also, they know the future of their own species, that’s how they avoided extinction in “history” by preparing a contingency plan.

  6. The Expert March 12, 2013 at 8:56 am -      #6

    here are some armed forces of the IOM
    Imperial Guard
    Imperial Navy
    Adeptus Astartes
    Collegia Titanica
    Adepta Sororitas
    Adeptus Custodes
    Adeptus Arbites

  7. SgCombine March 12, 2013 at 9:19 am -      #7

    So how would pskers like Librarians, Inquisitors, Saints(?), and others stand against the yith?

  8. Private Khaos March 12, 2013 at 9:49 am -      #8

    ^ my question exactly. Psykers have minds of steel depending on how powerful they are. So how capable are the Yith at controlling people?

  9. uhnioin March 12, 2013 at 10:17 am -      #9

    Wow. The Great Race of Yith was in H.P. Lovecraft’s “The Shadow Out of Time” in 1936. They have mastered time travel, and reproduce by spores and that’s the only info I got on them.

    Initial bets on IoM though, unless the Yith people just time travel their way to victory.

  10. Crimson Sentry March 12, 2013 at 10:36 am -      #10

    From what I’ve read and the scaling of the Yith, there are far more humans in the curreny IoM then Yith currently existing in all time.Yith barely ever procreate, and they were defeated by things that could barely pass as weak warp entities on just Earth. So in terms of a fight I think the IOM has the advantage. However, if the Yith can manage to occupy the minds of people of the Imperium right before they die then technically even if their physical body is destroyed it means nothing since they’ll just move hosts. So in the long term I don’t think this is winnable for the Imperium, unless everyone becomes a psyker and knows how to steel their mind lo..

  11. SgCombine March 12, 2013 at 10:44 am -      #11

    @crimson
    But wouldn’t the Inquisition detect them? I’m sure they would suspect something is wrong when entire worlds start worshipping tenticle sea monsters.

  12. Crimson Sentry March 12, 2013 at 11:12 am -      #12

    That may b e true if they could sense an alien presence, and even assuming they were 100% successful, it doesn’t seem like it’d do anything since the aliens can switch their conscious at will to anyone from the past, present, or future :/. They are kinda time-traveling mary sues.

  13. Crimson Sentry March 12, 2013 at 11:13 am -      #13

    at anywhere in the galaxy to anyone that is sentient, infact I think they can even inhabit animals.

  14. Soulerous March 12, 2013 at 11:44 am -      #14

    The Great Race of Yith.
    ~
    Appearance: “The Great Race’s members were immense rugose cones ten feet high, and with head and other organs attached to foot-thick, distensible limbs spreading from the apexes. They spoke by the clicking or scraping of huge paws or claws attached to the end of two of their four limbs, and walked by the expansion and contraction of a viscous layer attached to their vast ten-foot bases.
    ~
    I’m guessing ugly.
    ~
    With suitable mechanical aid a mind would project itself forward in time, feeling its dim, extra-sensory way till it approached the desired period. Then, after preliminary trials, it would seize on the best discoverable representative of the highest of that period’s life-forms; entering the organism’s brain and setting up therein its own vibrations while the displaced mind would strike back to the period of the displacer, remaining in the latter’s body till a reverse process was set up. The projected mind, in the body of the organism of the future, would then pose as a member of the race whose outward form it wore; learning as quickly as possible all that could be learned of the chosen age and its massed information and techniques.
    ~
    Effective. Impressive. Not very useful for combat.
    ~
    These were the dying permanent exiles, whose bodies in the future had been seized by keen-minded members of the Great Race who, faced with death, sought to escape mental extinction. Such melancholy exiles were not as common as might be expected, since the longevity of the Great Race lessened its love of life—especially among those superior minds capable of projection.
    ~
    They sometimes switch their minds with another when their own body is dying to escape death.
    ~
    As for the ordinary cases of exploration—when the displacing mind had learned what it wished in the future, it would build an apparatus like that which had started its flight and reverse the process of projection.
    ~
    Their mind-switching ability relies on technology.
    ~
    And meanwhile the Great Race itself waxed well-nigh omniscient, and turned to the task of setting up exchanges with the minds of other planets, and of exploring their pasts and futures. It sought likewise to fathom the past years and origin of that black, aeon-dead orb in far space whence its own mental heritage had come—for the mind of the Great Race was older than its bodily form. The beings of a dying elder world, wise with the ultimate secrets, had looked ahead for a new world and species wherein they might have long life; and had sent their minds en masse into that future race best adapted to house them—the cone-shaped things that peopled our earth a billion years ago.
    ~
    Their grotesque form is not their own. How fascinating.
    ~
    An enormous army, using camera-like weapons which produced tremendous electrical effects, was kept on hand for purposes seldom mentioned, but obviously connected with the ceaseless fear of the dark, windowless elder ruins and of the great sealed trap-doors in the lowest subterrene levels.
    ~
    I suppose they have lightning guns because they’re afraid of the dark. Imagine that.
    ~
    I say Imperium of Man.
    ~
    Sourced.

  15. Crimson Sentry March 12, 2013 at 11:55 am -      #15

    If the source of their mind transference is indeed technological, then if the imperium can locate and kill them fast enough after they transfer their mind, then they might be able to transfer in time. Otherwise they are just running lol.

  16. Crimson Sentry March 12, 2013 at 12:03 pm -      #16

    ^lol
    I mean if the IoM can kill them fast enough then they’ll win, however it seems like more of a game of cat and mouse.

  17. Shgon Dunstan March 12, 2013 at 12:36 pm -      #17

    While I don’t know much about the , and nothing about the GRoY….
    -
    I’m not really sure I need to know anymore then that the OP says they have time travel, as I know the IoM doesn’t(well, there’s the warp, but that’s not reliable enough.), Time Traveling races tend to >>>>> Non-Time Traveling races. Their just a touch to much of a out of context problem for them.
    -
    But like I said, what do I know….

  18. Soulerous March 12, 2013 at 12:37 pm -      #18

    Since they are in a match together, I’m assuming each force knows more or less where the other one is. I couldn’t find any information on the Race’s defense measures save for electricity projectors of questionable power. Their feats are minimal. The Imperium can simply blow them away.
    ~
    But hey, at least we learned about the Great Race of Yith. The story, The Shadow out of Time, is a truly interesting read. Very well written, too.

  19. Crimson Sentry March 12, 2013 at 12:49 pm -      #19

    agreed Soulerous ^_^

  20. Gluttonous-Behemoth March 12, 2013 at 1:22 pm -      #20

    Oh Bother, this was very poorly thought out if you ask me.
    -
    I’m glad Soulerous enjoyed the writing, but he’s right. We know precious little of the Yith as it is, and the bits we have are riddled with vagueness.
    -
    We know that the race was getting soundly trounced by the Flying Polyps during the scuffle they had on earth until they developed their lightning guns. The only marginally corporeal representation of the things comes from Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth which I find to be a fine game, but not exactly overflowing with feats.
    -
    I think the idea was that the Yithians could possess important Imperials. But there are two hitches with that plan:
    1. I don’t think they’ve ever tried to possess a race with psychic abilities of their own and that deals with that kind of thing. Holy exorcism rites might be able to throw them out once they’re in.
    2. Its a two way deal, the Yithian takes the human body, the human takes the Yithian’s. Unless they are prepared to imprison every member of their species that switches bodies, they’ll have problems when the xenophobic humans realize they are inside an alien body.
    -
    So interesting concept, but Mankind is far too populous here to effectively overtake by subversion on this scale.

  21. Obyron March 12, 2013 at 4:05 pm -      #21

    “That’s some nice mind-swapping tech you got there, too bad about the EXTERMINATUS!”

  22. tau43 March 12, 2013 at 4:51 pm -      #22

    2 Questions.
    The Yith were The Old Ones right?
    Was The Shadow one of the Yith or was it something else?
    If not the Imperium wins. Nothing from the Lovecraftian Horror collection I bought, outside of The Shadow, would be anything new to them. Although…an army of Dunwich Horrors…could make a dent.

  23. Sauroposeidon March 12, 2013 at 4:59 pm -      #23

    I don’t see how the Imperium of Man is supposed to be able to launch an offensive against a group which lives in a period of time they don’t exist in. Or how they are supposed to defend against a technology alien to them. A handful of mind switches with important people, like the GEOM, and suddenly they are in control of everything. Their ability to switch minds through time lets them learn from every failed encounter to rework it in to a victory or to never have engaged at all. They can learn everything they need to, appearing anywhere in time. It’s.. beyond pointless to try and wage a war against these guys unless you’re physically there with them and somehow prevent all of them from mind hopping through time, to any mind at any point in time. They are the most frustrating kind of enemy for one to encounter. It’s headache inducing to even contemplate trying to take on the Yith.

  24. The Imperator March 12, 2013 at 5:01 pm -      #24

    The Great Race has body switching, but other than that they lose. Maybe if they took over the Tau and worked on procreating quickly, they might win. But other than that, they probably aren’t going to win here unless they go back in time and assassinate the Primarchs or other important personas.

  25. The Imperator March 12, 2013 at 5:03 pm -      #25

    Edit: I meant in a straight up battle the GRoY would lose. If they have free reign of time travel, they win through the ability to reproduce quickly in the future (or past), and then mass transfer with the Imperium.

  26. Dark God of Chaos March 12, 2013 at 5:05 pm -      #26

    So the Great Race is vague other than time travel and mind rape (which the IoM fend off daily) and have no DC feats to speak of
    -
    “Maybe if they took over the Tau and worked on procreating quickly, they might win”
    -
    Tau aren’t in this match
    -
    Anyways, IoM ftw I guess

  27. tau43 March 12, 2013 at 5:07 pm -      #27

    “Or how they are supposed to defend against a technology alien to them.”
    >Eldar
    >Tau
    >Necrons
    What was that about being alien?
    -
    “like the GEOM, and suddenly they are in control of everything.”
    -Yes…because control a corpse in a stasis field will give you so much power.
    -
    “They can learn everything they need to, appearing anywhere in time”
    -Oh, so the Shadow is one? In which case, Yith wins. There is no beating The Shadow permanently, even though Atomic Robo did technically.

  28. The Imperator March 12, 2013 at 5:07 pm -      #28

    Technically, we don’t know if psychic resistance will work against the GRoY. Since they use tech, they may simply be forcibly moving the memories from one person to another. Or using something like an effector. We don’t know.

  29. Gluttonous-Behemoth March 12, 2013 at 5:16 pm -      #29

    Its revealed that the Protagonist of CoC: DCotE received several traits from the Race because one of them possessed his father at the exact moment of conception. So it is more than just transferring personas.
    -
    @Sauro
    True, they may not be able to strike at the Yith directly, but there are only so many people that they can switch with. If done right, it could be done though. Take the high lords of Terra or such people and you could probably engineer a lot of damage. Still, the Imperium is simply so large that I’m not sure that they can be taken down in this manner.

  30. Dark God of Chaos March 12, 2013 at 5:28 pm -      #30

    “Technically, we don’t know if psychic resistance will work against the GRoY”
    -
    And on the other hand you can’t prove they can overcome psychic resistance
    -
    “Since they use tech, they may simply be forcibly moving the memories from one person to another. Or using something like an effector. We don’t know.”
    -
    So its ambiguous, lovely

  31. Total_Overkill March 12, 2013 at 9:24 pm -      #31

    “The Great Race has body switching, but other than that they lose. Maybe if they took over the Tau and worked on procreating quickly, they might win.”
    -
    The Yith could possess every Tau in existence and still be outnumbered by a single Imperium Hiveworld.

  32. The Imperator March 12, 2013 at 9:32 pm -      #32

    The point would be to have infrastructure, and a chance to ally with others. But since that scenario doesn’t apply it, it doesn’t matter.

  33. Soulerous March 12, 2013 at 9:42 pm -      #33

    And on the other hand you can’t prove they can overcome psychic resistance
    -My thoughts exactly.
    ~
    Since they use tech, they may simply be forcibly moving the memories from one person to another. Or using something like an effector.
    -The quotes say they switch minds.
    ~
    It’s.. beyond pointless to try and wage a war against these guys unless you’re physically there with them and somehow prevent all of them from mind hopping through time, to any mind at any point in time.
    -They are quite adept at escaping this way, that is true. Were they to do so, they could logically grow accustomed to their race’s new form, rebuild their technology, multiply, and then transfer their consciousnesses into all those of the Imperium of Man who do not have psychic power. They could do this gradually or suddenly. They could make sure their old bodies died with the Imperium of Man members inside them.
    ~
    Obviously, they would learn about the Imperium first like they do with every race, and would so determine exactly what they needed to do. Which advanced weapons to hijack, how to use them, how to properly impersonate Man, everything. That’s kind of their thing.
    ~
    Once they know practically everything, they could take over everyone without psychic defenses. The question from there is whether or not the remaining psykers could defeat their own empire.
    ~
    So, Imperium of Man vs their psykers, anyone? I suppose the Great Race could even pick off weak individual psykers in secret before the full-blown revolution.

  34. Gluttonous-Behemoth March 12, 2013 at 9:53 pm -      #34

    @Soulerous
    Given the proper command from the right authority, I think that most psykers could be successfully taken down. The problem comes when you get to the Space Marine Librarians. I am certain the Chapters would follow an order to cull or incapacitate their psykers, but if they fight back there is potential for huge losses. Tigurius or Mephisto are army killers, even astartes ones. They might fall eventually, but it is hardly a guarantee.

  35. Sauroposeidon March 12, 2013 at 10:16 pm -      #35

    “What was that about being alien?”
    -
    Not alien as in not human. Alien as in unlike anything I know of being used against them.
    -
    “-Yes…because control a corpse in a stasis field will give you so much power.”
    -
    He was an example of an authority figure, although if taken, he could be a wealth of information.
    -
    “-My thoughts exactly.”
    -
    Why would being psychic have any effect at all? Unless you’ve shown resistance against a technology which mind switches then having any given power won’t really help much.

  36. Soulerous March 12, 2013 at 10:48 pm -      #36

    Why would being psychic have any effect at all? Unless you’ve shown resistance against a technology which mind switches then having any given power won’t really help much.
    -The theory goes if you have resistance to mind control/manipulation it will prevent your consciousness being relocated regardless of whether it’s done by organism or machine.
    ~
    I couldn’t claim that though, for I’m not a Warhammer fan and don’t know if the psykers truly have a compatible resistance.

  37. Soulerous March 13, 2013 at 12:00 am -      #37

    It was evident that the coming doom so desperately feared by the Great Race—the doom that was one day to send millions of keen minds across the chasm of time to strange bodies in the safer future—had to do with a final successful irruption of the Elder Beings.(Source)
    ~
    The Great Race has at the least two million members. With the feats posted so far, they conquer the Imperium of Man by escaping into the future and then stealing their foes’ bodies.

  38. Dark God of Chaos March 13, 2013 at 12:05 am -      #38

    “Why would being psychic have any effect at all? Unless you’ve shown resistance against a technology which mind switches then having any given power won’t really help much.”
    -
    Your point, it still works off the same principle off effecting the mind
    -
    Being technology doesn’t automatically make it able to mindrape them
    -
    “The Great Race has at the least two million members.”
    -
    So only the numbers of a small city? That wouldn’t be enough to conquer the IoM at all

  39. Soulerous March 13, 2013 at 12:18 am -      #39

    So only the numbers of a small city? That wouldn’t be enough to conquer the IoM at all
    -
    Of course not, but they have just about as long as they want to reproduce. I was just giving a starting reference.
    ~
    Still, it would be best to support the Imperium with feats. Some quotes or video clips perhaps. Many of you know them well, but not everyone does, and they still need to be supported to win.

  40. Gluttonous-Behemoth March 13, 2013 at 12:19 am -      #40

    @Stealth
    Two Million of the most important leaders in the Imperium? A mere thousand is enough to occupy the Chapter Masters of all of the loyal Space Marines. Take a million and you have almost every space marine in the imperium. The Chapter Masters? High Lords of Terra? Creed? Admirals of the Navy, Generals of the Guard, Arch-Magi, Priests of the Ecclesiarchy, Assassinorum agents, Inquisitors? The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced this is possible.

  41. Dark God of Chaos March 13, 2013 at 12:23 am -      #41

    “Of course not, but they have just about as long as they want to reproduce. I was just giving a starting reference.”
    -
    Fair enough
    -
    “Still, it would be best to support the Imperium with feats. Some quotes or video clips perhaps”
    -
    Well there many references on several threads involving them, in regards to firepower, psykers and stuff (I guess I’ll dig)
    -
    “and they still need to be supported to win.”
    -
    To be fair, if the Great Race lives on another planet outside of the IoM’s time frame or whatever, then they won’t lose, then again it’s unlikely they’ll gain much of a foothold on the IoM since they’re alot weaker than Chaos (‘cept for time travel) as far as can be proven). Like Gluttonous said, the GRoY are fairly vague

  42. Shgon Dunstan March 13, 2013 at 1:06 am -      #42

    Just how easy/fast can they do this whole “telaport there mind through space and time” thing?
    -
    Because if they can just do it every time the IoM so much as shows up in orbit…… There’s kind of “fuck all” the IoM can do about that.
    -
    They could just keep moving from IoM world, to IoM world, taunting the Imperium to “burn the Xeno” only to leave right before everything goes to hell… Basically making the IoM kill itself. :?

  43. Shgon Dunstan March 13, 2013 at 1:30 am -      #43

    By the way, every time I see anything having to do with Lovecraft, I can’t help but thinking about something someone once posted on SB….
    -
    “Originally Posted by foamy
    -
    “I wouldn’t trust a Lovecraftian description of a glass of milk, let alone of their alleged cosmic horrors. ”
    -
    Originally Posted by Pooka
    -
    “Like distilled madness, the ghastly white fluid was of a viscous quality quite unlike anything that could truly be called ‘liquid’ by contemporary man.
    -
    This pseudo-fluid was contained, yet not contained, within a transparent barrier like the purest ice, yet its temperature was not cool. This container was not a square, but a thing of unnaturally precise curves. “”
    -
    ….No really, I can’t help it. :lol:
    -
    Never read anything by him myself though, so take it for what it’s worth.

  44. wpago March 13, 2013 at 2:30 am -      #44

    Sauroposeidon and everyone else. You do realise that the GEoMK is to powerful to be mind controled at all. If it were easy then the gods of Choas would have done it. Since he battles them on a daily basis. Just thought id point hat out. There is no way they can take him over. kinda surprised no one else said this yet remeber GEoMK is the strongest phyker ever.

    Also anyone else smell another form of genesteeler cult?

  45. Soulerous March 13, 2013 at 2:42 am -      #45

    Just how easy/fast can they do this whole “telaport there mind through space and time” thing?
    -That’s a very good question. Thankfully I have been able to find the following quote.
    ~
    It is, of course, from others that I have learned what followed. I shewed no sign of consciousness for sixteen and a half hours, though removed to my home at 27 Crane St. and given the best of medical attention. At 3 a.m. May 15 my eyes opened and I began to speak, but before long the doctors and my family were thoroughly frightened by the trend of my expression and language. It was clear that I had no remembrance of my identity or of my past, though for some reason I seemed anxious to conceal this lack of knowledge. My eyes gazed strangely at the persons around me, and the flexions of my facial muscles were altogether unfamiliar.
    ~
    So the mind-switching process itself takes about sixteen and a half hours. But preparation for that, which includes finding the proper lifeform, takes an unknown amount of time. It could be minutes or days.
    ~
    I wish I knew what the set up was, but at least I know it’s not fair for the Race to be out of reach to begin with. In every instance that they’ve run from the danger of destruction they have had lengthy forewarning due to seeing the danger in the future. They have no such luxury here.
    ~
    It looks like I was right in my first posts after all… the Imperium can just blow them away. Assuming they have weapons and spacecraft, that is.
    ~
    Oh wait, I got it. The Imperium of Man wins. Isn’t this great?
    ~
    You do realise that the GEoMK is to powerful to be mind controled at all.
    -Proof, you foo-el! Proof!
    ~
    Originally Posted by Pooka” -That’s awesome.

  46. Dark God of Chaos March 13, 2013 at 2:47 am -      #46

    “Assuming they have weapons and spacecraft, that is.”
    -
    They do ofc
    -
    “-Proof, you foo-el! Proof!”
    -
    Well the GEoM daily holds back the power of 4 skyfather+ level beings along with several Greater Daemons that can mind rape planets and even solar systems with his mind (Chaos), so yeah

  47. Soulerous March 13, 2013 at 2:58 am -      #47

    Oh I know, I’m just pushing the point of backing up claims. I went over to Spacebattles I think it was, and their opinion of FactPile is not exactly flattering. They have rules very similar to ours though, and one of them got stuck in my mind: If you make a claim, post proof for it.
    ~
    Really, that’s what we push for.

  48. Dark God of Chaos March 13, 2013 at 3:01 am -      #48

    Well fair enough I s’pose
    -
    As for SpaceBattles, they think every other site is stupid, and several of their members are former FP members who left out of hate of this site

  49. Shgon Dunstan March 13, 2013 at 4:19 am -      #49

    @Dark God of Chaos
    “Well fair enough I s’pose
    -
    As for SpaceBattles, they think every other site is stupid, and several of their members are former FP members who left out of hate of this site”
    -
    Honestly, having been going to SB for years, while it’s “thinks other sites are stupid” is true of some sites, FP…… Just doesn’t ever really come up.
    -
    The only ones I’ve ever really even seen *mention* it, are a few WoT debaters(like once that I remember, and that time is what made me find out about this site in the first place), and they weren’t calling the “site” stupid… Two guessing “who” they *were* talking about, and the first one doesn’t count(….I’ve never understood that saying. :? ).

  50. Dark God of Chaos March 13, 2013 at 4:22 am -      #50

    “Honestly, having been going to SB for years, while it’s “thinks other sites are stupid” is true of some sites, FP…… Just doesn’t ever really come up.”
    -
    Meh, well they don’t hold FP in high esteem either as far as I’m concerned
    -
    Although there was a “Biggest Wankers” thread there where Mike was mentioned

  51. Sauroposeidon March 13, 2013 at 2:44 pm -      #51

    “To be fair, if the Great Race lives on another planet outside of the IoM’s time frame or whatever, then they won’t lose, then again it’s unlikely they’ll gain much of a foothold on the IoM since they’re alot weaker than Chaos (‘cept for time travel) as far as can be proven). Like Gluttonous said, the GRoY are fairly vague”
    -
    They’re not even remotely like chaos.. so why would you compare them?
    -
    “Your point, it still works off the same principle off effecting the mind”
    -
    Let’s try it this way. Wolverine’s regen even allows him to come back from having his mind disintegrated. Would his super regen revert whatever alterations the yith mind switch inflict upon him, ripping him back in to his body? The Flash literally our ran death once. Would his speed effectively allow him to “dodge” this technique? You see now why I am unconvinced being psychic means immediate defenses against it with out there being something similar? And I would find it odd if there are no yith-like beings in 40k who do this stuff. So keep digging.
    -
    “Just how easy/fast can they do this whole “telaport there mind through space and time” . thing?”
    -
    Good question. I find Lovecraft to be a bit of a dry read, and as such have no read as much of him as I really should have. I’m still struggling with The Mountains of Madness. The start of that book is beyond boring. Although nowhere near as bad as the black library stuff that churns out crappy 40k pulp. So I haven’t really explored much of 40k’s fluff either.
    -
    “Sauroposeidon and everyone else. You do realise that the GEoMK is to powerful to be mind controled at all. If it were easy then the gods of Choas would have done it. Since he battles them on a daily basis. Just thought id point hat out. There is no way they can take him over. kinda surprised no one else said this yet remeber GEoMK is the strongest phyker ever.
    Also anyone else smell another form of genesteeler cult?”
    -
    1. You’re 100% wrong on that front. I’m completely certain that if I went looking for a psychic strong enough, or a magic powerful enough, or some uber advanced technology, I could find something in the history of fiction which could mind control him. Fuck, I could self publish a book with a psychic in it who enslaves the masses of entire multiverses, warping their minds so that mere negative thoughts induce clusters of super massive black holes on their targets, tearing apart the galactic construct in to a whirling mass of blazing white hot material, pulsing with obscene energy and transforming their bundle of gravity induced infinite pressure death in to a quasar that would dim even the incredible ones we’ve witnessed in reality. Each one of these countless souls int heir new, mutant state now so far above and beyond the GEOM that any one of them alone could mind slave him, let alone the master psychic. It’s not hard to trump things that don’t exist if all you have to do is conjure up something even grander than them. So get off the GEOM’s rotting dick, dude.
    -
    2. It’s not mind control. It’s a mind switch. You’ve failed magnificently at reading comprehension. Congratulations.
    -
    “I wish I knew what the set up was, but at least I know it’s not fair for the Race to be out of reach to begin with. In every instance that they’ve run from the danger of destruction they have had lengthy forewarning due to seeing the danger in the future. They have no such luxury here.”
    -
    I don’t know about you but I doubt it’ll be hard for a space faring race to notice a multi-stellar empire which is suddenly mobilizing its forces. The sheer scope of time it takes the IoM to actually launch an offensive, sadly, is their biggest weakness in the vast majority of their matches. They move with all the speed of a turd on land. The Yith would be long gone before even the most advanced of recon units arrive to scope the situation out. Many of the Yith themselves may in fact now be citizens of the imperium, as I suspect the Yith would switch out to unimportant members first, where their alien nature would not be so extremely apparent.
    -
    “Oh wait, I got it. The Imperium of Man wins. Isn’t this great?”
    -
    I see no Crisis Suits. Am uninterested until the mecha make a return. Although their light titan was, as always, very cute. I never understood the point of making their war machines so cute, and stubby, and chubby, and SO appealing to Childre- Oh.. right.. their target audience.

  52. Soulerous March 13, 2013 at 4:30 pm -      #52

    The sheer scope of time it takes the IoM to actually launch an offensive, sadly, is their biggest weakness in the vast majority of their matches.
    -Wait, wait, exactly how long does it take? I thought they had hyperdrive or equivalent. I admit it had not occurred to me that they might not see any reason to rush an attack. There’s no time-bomb as far as they’re concerned, but on the other hand, why would they waste time? The set up remains an important factor too. Does the Race just have a planet next to the Imperium’s worlds?
    ~
    The Race’s mind-switching does still take an unspecified amount of time to find a subject in addition to the sixteen and a half hours for the actual switch, and I’m honestly not sure where the cutoff between a reasonable and irrational assumption is. Minutes, months? Years?
    ~
    Am uninterested until the mecha make a return. Although their light titan was, as always, very cute. I never understood the point of making their war machines so cute, and stubby, and chubby, and SO appealing to Childre- Oh.. right.. their target audience.
    -Warhammer is for kids? Seems a bit… violent.

  53. Gluttonous-Behemoth March 13, 2013 at 4:48 pm -      #53

    @Sauro
    You write about that, and I’ll be the first to buy it.
    -
    I wouldn’t really call their machines cute. I’ll vouch that the Leman Russes have rather sensually forged pintle armor, and you can’t deny that Thunderhawks are just flaunting those frontal turbine intakes. But Cute? No, I wouldn’t say that.

  54. Gluttonous-Behemoth March 13, 2013 at 4:51 pm -      #54

    @Soulerous
    To expand.
    The Imperium has fairly quick travel, but it can be variably effective. The real issue is that the Imperium is so large, with a proportionately huge bureacracy, that mobilization of any significant factor takes a very long time. Some sectors are more important and have better priority levels, but usually distress calls can take weeks or months to answer properly.

  55. Shgon Dunstan March 13, 2013 at 5:05 pm -      #55

    @Soulerous
    “-Wait, wait, exactly how long does it take? I thought they had hyperdrive or equivalent. I admit it had not occurred to me that they might not see any reason to rush an attack. There’s no time-bomb as far as they’re concerned, but on the other hand, why would they waste time? The set up remains an important factor too. Does the Race just have a planet next to the Imperium’s worlds?”
    -
    From what I’ve seen in Vs, the problem comes from it working through the warp.
    -
    Which makes it *REALLY* random in the amount of time travel time it takes to get anywhere, from “thousands of years” to “this time yesterday”.

  56. Shgon Dunstan March 13, 2013 at 5:07 pm -      #56

    “amount of time travel time it takes to get anywhere”>amount of travel time it takes to get anywhere.

  57. Sauroposeidon March 13, 2013 at 5:23 pm -      #57

    “There’s no time-bomb as far as they’re concerned, but on the other hand, why would they waste time? The set up remains an important factor too. Does the Race just have a planet next to the Imperium’s worlds?”
    -
    Gluttonous Behemoth effectively answered this. I actually feel it is the biggest weakness and fault of the IoM, both in their own universe and in matches where they face off against others here on Factpile.

  58. Sauroposeidon March 13, 2013 at 5:30 pm -      #58

    “-Warhammer is for kids? Seems a bit… violent.”
    -
    Boys like violence. Warhammer is from an era when we still sold toy guns that looked like real guns and then we sent them outside for hours to go pretend murder each other. We live in a very PC world these days, where instead of BB Rifles, kids get bright orange nerf guns that shoot foam darts. =/ The models themselves are clearly marketed at children, with bloated and exaggerated features and a hyper violent back story that makes them appeal to boys I’d say 10 and up. It also helps that 40k is not meant to be viewed seriously. The violence is clearly comedy, the excessive depressing themes meant to be laugh inducing. It’s not uncommon in British humor, and the fact that it began life as a parody of their Warhammer Fantasy line only lends credit to this. WHF I’d say is aimed more at teenagers, with Warhammer 40k aimed more at tweens.

  59. The Imperator March 13, 2013 at 5:44 pm -      #59

    @Sauroposeidon: What are you talking about? At my local GW store, the only people in there regularly are 20 to 40 year old males, who have armies that must have cost them thousands in glue and paint alone, and are serious about it. The only time I hear about kids in the store is when their parents are in their buying stuff for them (albeit, that was during Christmas, I haven’t been by that often since then).
    -
    And the books are certainly not aimed at tweens.
    -
    The only faction I really see aimed at tweens, considering the horrible implications in most codex fluff, is the Orkz. The other groups are dark, horrible things (Dark Eldar, Chaos, Chaos Marines) and really expensive and not easy for tweens to get (Tyranids). The Space Marines, Inquisition, and IG could go either way. I have no opinion on the Tau, and the Necrons are just kind of.. awesome, from any perspective :P

  60. Shgon Dunstan March 13, 2013 at 6:23 pm -      #60

    Still… Looks like the GRoY can’t just “You can’t catch me!” to the IoM, but…
    -
    What’s the range of their mind swapping?
    -
    Last I checked all of WH40K takes place in one galaxy, and though some of it’s races aren’t limited to just that one, the IoM(or Chaos for that matter) aren’t one of those.

  61. Sauroposeidon March 13, 2013 at 7:19 pm -      #61

    @ Imperator

    I don’t know where you play but the hobby store I visited for anything was full of kids. Almost everyone I personally know who is into miniatures had kids, and their kids got in to mini’s at a very, very young age. I personally built my first space marine at the age of 11 or 12. The books are utter pulp, which implies they’re aimed at teenagers and twenty somethings,or on going fans who have reached maturity. What miniatures children play seem to be related to what their parents do or what the first minis are that they see. For me it was Warhammer 40,000. Although I didn’t start playing with miniatures until Star Wars Skirmishes something like six? seven? years ago. Then I switched to Battletech, although Battletech seems aimed at a much older audience if you’re going by books alone. Decision at Thunder Rift is one of the better sci-fi war stories I’ve read, even if it’s not comparable to Campbell or Bradbury or Asimov. But I’m off topic here, especially since Battletech’s novels have deteriorated to teenage level pulp as well. My point being is, my experience across a handful of different Hobby Stores, as well as a number of contacts, indicates children do play minis, almost as often as the adults, but probably not with as expensive of armies or in stores as much due to the price of a unit. Transporting them, as I found out, is dangerous for the minis if their owner is a child.
    -
    Still, bright colors, cartoonish vehicle designs, the bubbly proportioned space marines being their flagship faction with violence on the same level as those old Mars Attacks trading cards… Yeah, it’s for kids. There’s nothing wrong with adults enjoying it though, if that’s what you think I’m suggesting. They just know that if you get them while they’re young, they remain loyal customers. So it’s pretty clearly designed to appeal to children, while more realistic miniatures (or very advanced models, like Master Grade gundam kits) are primarily aimed at adults. I believe this is because they have a built in marketing system already due to things like the history channel, or a related television show (such as Star Trek) and therefor don’t need to design their models to also be kid appealing.
    -
    Again, to remind you, the over the top violence and grimdark is very clearly meant to be comedy. Like the Black Knight who keeps fighting even as he gets dismembered, or the bunny rabbit who violently murders people in bloody fashion. You know what I’m talking about.

  62. Sauroposeidon March 13, 2013 at 7:43 pm -      #62

    “What’s the range of their mind swapping?”
    -
    I might be very, very wrong.. but my understanding is that our belief on the size of the universe was limited to just our solar system at the time of lovecraft’s writings. Although it may have expanded to galactic scale by then, the universe as we now know it to be was not an accepted model until the.. 60′s? or 70′s?
    -
    Now I want to say “known universe” range. However, if I recall they had occupied the minds of the beetle race that takes over the Earth after Humans go extinct. Which means they may have kept their activities limited to Earth, depending on where they were located when they did the mind stealing. Again, I haven’t ready much Lovecraft so I can’t say.. but extrapolating from our understanding of time and space, time is malleable and not linear. Which means if you master travel through time you may have also mastered travel through space. Of course, that’s just conjecture.
    -
    What is not conjecture is that everything in the universe is still moving. The planets rotate and spine. The sun spins. The sun sits relatively near the end of a galactic spiral arm which rotates around a super massive black hole. Even the black hole our galaxies spins around is hurdling through space.. With out an accurate idea of how fast we change positions over the years and how far they can time travel, it’s impossible to know how far the farthest they’ve had to go from one body to another. However, they fled their original bodies 65 million years in the past, and did travel to Earth over 200 million years ago.
    -
    “Perhaps these entities had come to prefer earth’s inner abysses to the variable, storm-ravaged surface, since light meant nothing to them. Perhaps, too, they were slowly weakening with the aeons. Indeed, it was known that they would be quite dead in the time of the post-human beetle race which the fleeing minds would tenant. -The Shadow Out of Time.”
    -
    I believe that it is sufficient to say that their traveling distance is.. far.
    -
    Yithians also have the technology (or power) to memory wipe, although dreams may bring back shards of one’s experience with them.
    -
    Again, I haven’t read the book yet, but the wiki suggests that prisoners are sometimes allowed to speak with other prisoners, who “range from across the past and future of the known universe and beyond” or some such.
    -
    Sorry that I couldn’t be of more help.

  63. The Imperator March 13, 2013 at 7:44 pm -      #63

    Good point, I admit I had no it off it that way. On the subject of the books, the Horus heresy novels are target good, and anything by Dan Abnett is quite good.

  64. The Imperator March 13, 2013 at 7:45 pm -      #64

    Not thought of it, I mean. Stupid swipe keyboard *fake rage*

  65. The Imperator March 13, 2013 at 7:48 pm -      #65

    Quite good, not target. I am still getting the hang of this.

  66. Commander Cross March 13, 2013 at 7:53 pm -      #66

    @Lizard God at #58

    Part of me that fears becoming an abomination might have considered the Jurai Empire(Tenchi Muyo) vs the Imperium of Man without any stated stipulations in mind, but not only would that be me coming across as an Overkill-happy nutcase who just Overkills for its own sake, but it’ll be in Riverlia the Sage’s right to especially be among my scolders if I did this.

    Not my only concern, but to set up an entire list would be futile here.

    I’ll say this: Is Cthluhu part of the list for the Great Race?

    P.S: I can agree with the Imperator’s suggestions on #63, although the Dawn of War storylines brought us the Blood Ravens, the likes of whom mainly feel like they’re there to let those who know jack$hit on their own ancestry trees know they aren’t alone, as well as to introduce newcomers to Warhammer 40,000 in general for that matter.
    In both departments, it works.

  67. Gluttonous-Behemoth March 13, 2013 at 8:04 pm -      #67

    @Cross
    Oh nononono, Cthulhu is not a Yithian by any means (don’t let the tentacles fool you into thinking a blood relation, its a very common look in the Mythos), and the inclusion of the king of Lovecraftian vagueness would do no favors here I’m afraid.
    -
    @Saur
    Perhaps, but I’d dispute that with the books. At least as far as Abnett goes, I think the novels are well beyond pure pulp. Titanicus for example I find to be exceptionally good science fiction.

  68. Commander Cross March 13, 2013 at 8:08 pm -      #68

    @Master Sarge at #67

    Fair enough.
    If it was wrong of me to ask, I apologize, but I just wanted to know is all.

    To my knowledge, I don’t know if the Yith have any armies that can duke it out with any Grey Knight Space Marines or the Adeptus Custodes if it comes down to it, then again the Yith don’t look like one of those species that made it noted that they can wage war as we understand it so I might be underestimating Yith ground capabilities.

    I’ll just say Initial bets says this might take a while, and be out for now.

  69. Sauroposeidon March 13, 2013 at 8:41 pm -      #69

    I really hate to admit to my lack of ability to adapt, but I STILL have a hard time understand Cross’ sentence structure. This fact actually makes me kind of angry.
    -
    As for Dan’s books, I actually find he’s the one I like the least. I tend to equate his writing style, if I’m correct in remembering which quotes are from his novels, to pornography or masturbation.

  70. Commander Cross March 13, 2013 at 8:49 pm -      #70

    @Lizard God at #69

    Spell-checking saves lives, and preserves species.

    My warning at #66 still stands, unless you’d rather hazard a possible ‘Imperium of Man vs the Jurai Empire vs the Galactic Empire’ fight on the site, in which case, be my guest.

  71. The Imperator March 13, 2013 at 9:15 pm -      #71

    @Sauroposeidon: What? I did not get that at all from Eisenhorn and Ravenor. Where is the porn angle coming from? Now I am curious, I must know.

  72. Sauroposeidon March 13, 2013 at 9:39 pm -      #72

    Not pornographic in a sexual sense. More in just the style of writing. I found it ridiculous, obscene, following little flow in logic. It was porn in the same sense that those retarded Saw movies are pornographic.

  73. The Imperator March 13, 2013 at 9:42 pm -      #73

    Really? huh, never looked at it that way. I thought they were good – good characters, strong writing, etc. Well, to each his own.

  74. Gluttonous-Behemoth March 13, 2013 at 9:52 pm -      #74

    I’ve got to agree with Imperator. Paolini, I could understand that comparison with, what with the Deus Ex Machinas and flowery prose style, but Titanicus covered a number of perspectives seamlessly, and I can’t find any fault with his physics or combat writing. Perhaps you could elaborate?
    -
    As for Cross, the key is context. It won’t be exactly pertinent, but chances are you can divine his general meaning by what’s going on. If not, you can extrapolate and narrow it down to
    *Anime
    *Harry Potter
    *Lesbians or a disparaging comment about Stealthranger.

  75. Sauroposeidon March 13, 2013 at 10:22 pm -      #75

    “Really? huh, never looked at it that way. I thought they were good – good characters, strong writing, etc. Well, to each his own.”
    -
    I should reiterate, most of what I’ve read are given quotes from the books. Not the entirety of the books themselves. Those have driven me from ever wanting to read the 40k books.

  76. Gluttonous-Behemoth March 14, 2013 at 12:13 am -      #76

    @Sauro
    That’s reasonable. While I’m sure that not all of them are masterpieces, you could certainly do worse I think.

  77. Dark God of Chaos March 14, 2013 at 12:17 am -      #77

    “Not the entirety of the books themselves. Those have driven me from ever wanting to read the 40k books.”
    -
    To each his own

  78. Sauroposeidon March 14, 2013 at 12:34 am -      #78

    I’m spoiled as far as writing goes. I routinely go back to read A Sound of Thunder just for the pleasure of it. It’s hard to top story tellers of Bradbury’s caliber. But, back to the debate at hand. Did my comment sufficiently answer the distance dealio with the Yithians?

  79. Soulerous March 14, 2013 at 3:35 am -      #79

    Thus it was when the minds of the Great Race sped across the void from that obscure trans-galactic world known in the disturbing and debatable Eltdown Shards as Yith.” (S)
    ~
    So their range is intergalactic.

  80. Soulerous March 14, 2013 at 3:36 am -      #80

    I’m sorry, trans-galactic.

  81. Shgon Dunstan March 14, 2013 at 10:05 am -      #81

    @Soulerous
    “I’m sorry, trans-galactic.”
    -
    I’m not 100% sure that’s what that quote says, as…
    -
    “sped across the void from that obscure trans-galactic world known in the disturbing and debatable Eltdown Shards as Yith.”
    -
    Note “*From* that trans-galactic world known as Yith”.

  82. Gluttonous-Behemoth March 14, 2013 at 11:01 am -      #82

    @Shgon
    It would suggest either their switch technique works across that span, or they possessed the means to travel that distance to have eventually gotten to Earth.

  83. Shgon Dunstan March 14, 2013 at 11:07 am -      #83

    @Gluttonous-Behemoth
    “It would suggest either their switch technique works across that span, or they possessed the means to travel that distance to have eventually gotten to Earth.”
    -
    To me… It would suggest that their home world is “trans-galactic”, aka: is inside one galaxy…. Yeah it’s stupid, but rather fits the quote about the milk if you ask me. :lol:

  84. Shgon Dunstan March 14, 2013 at 11:15 am -      #84

    (silly mode on)
    -
    So… What kind of durability feat is it to of evolved on a world travailing around the galaxy at FTL speeds?

  85. Soulerous March 14, 2013 at 11:55 am -      #85

    The quote just tells us that Yith is in a different solar system, possibly very far away from ours. We know they came to Earth via mind-switching and even had captive minds from Venus and Mercury, so their range is at the very least as far as the next star from Sol.
    ~
    What kind of durability feat is it to of evolved on a world travailing around the galaxy at FTL speeds?
    -Um… what?

  86. Sauroposeidon March 14, 2013 at 12:03 pm -      #86

    Shgon, the Yithians change bodies, so even if they began with, say, rancors or even Godzillas as their main bodies, it wouldn’t matter.They left their original forms to take over what we now know on Earth, and then eventually they escaped to the beetles. I would presume their durability is roughly similar to whatever body they took over with out further reading on what they do to their hosts.

  87. Shgon Dunstan March 14, 2013 at 12:05 pm -      #87

    @Soulerous
    “-Um… what?”
    -
    “that obscure trans-galactic world known in the disturbing and debatable Eltdown Shards as Yith”
    -
    Or in short.
    -
    “that trans-galactic world known as Yith”
    -
    “trans-galactic”=”Traveling around the galaxy”, which would need for it to be traveling at FTL speeds.

  88. Soulerous March 15, 2013 at 12:26 am -      #88

    I don’t see why superluminal speeds would be required to travel a galaxy, but yeah, what Sauroposeidon said. They don’t have the same bodies as when they lived on Yith. It’s rather sick, really.

  89. 11zxcvb11 March 15, 2013 at 11:43 pm -      #89

    my first post here on factpile. this is quite an interesting discussion, so i just had to join.

    the way i see it, the setup states that both races know about each other, so at the very beginning, the great cogs of imperial bureaucracy start to turn to have a fleet dispatched to deal with the yithians. at the same time, the great race starts looking for suitable subjects for a mind-switch.

    so, if the fleet arrives first, most or all of the great race is destroyed along with their planet, the escaping ones (i made the assumption they possessed some sort of limited spaceflight) being hunted down by the imperium eventually.

    or, if the great race completes their project first, they collectively switch their minds with humans 40.000 years in the past and, depending on how time travel works in the universe of the match:

    a) they prevent the imperium from ever forming, wiping out the future imperium

    b) a new reality branches off without the imperium, but the imperium still exists in the original future. basically a draw.

    - now, the yithians might not be able to travel 40k years into the past, but maybe less would be enough to defeat the nascent imperium. or several smaller jumps to -40k years might work also
    - the imperium might try their own time travel tech (i am not familiar with it) to catch up with the yith before they change the past, but if it is as reliable as traveling through the warp, then it is quite a long shot.

  90. Dark God of Chaos March 15, 2013 at 11:48 pm -      #90

    “they prevent the imperium from ever forming, wiping out the future imperium”
    -
    Which is against the rules, you can only travel back to the start of the match

  91. Shgon Dunstan March 16, 2013 at 12:46 am -      #91

    @Dark God of Chaos
    “Which is against the rules, you can only travel back to the start of the match”
    -
    There’s no forward limit though, so… Does anyone here think that the IoM *wouldn’t* end up killing themselves at some point in the next, say…. 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years? Even more so as they no longer have anyone but themselves to fight with?
    -
    Note: I only even really ask this, as going by this thread so far, we know next to nothing about the GRoY’s fighting abilities is that they can swap bodies, which…. Isn’t much to base a Vs on, even more so as we don’t even seem to know *how* it works. :?
    -
    All in all, it’s starting to kick in my “root of the underdog” reflex. :lol:

  92. Shgon Dunstan March 16, 2013 at 12:48 am -      #92

    “we know next to nothing about the GRoY’s fighting abilities is that they can swap bodies”>we know next to nothing about the GRoY’s fighting abilities, save that they can swap bodies

  93. Dark God of Chaos March 16, 2013 at 12:51 am -      #93

    “There’s no forward limit though”
    -
    I know. I was just correcting the whole “travel back in time to kill the IoM before they existed thing”

  94. VunderGuy April 25, 2013 at 2:39 am -      #94

    So, the emperor is allowed?

  95. Swarmlord July 9, 2013 at 2:30 pm -      #95

    The Warhammer fan in me wants to say Warhammer and the Lovecraft fan wants to say Yithians. The logical part of me, however, is telling me we don’t have enough feats for the Great Race to really make much of an educated decision. I do agree though, nothing is stopping the Yithians from mind controlling all of the Space Marines and major Imperial leaders.

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