Published on January 25, 2013, by Hitman H94 - Posted in Duels 101
Suggested By Guardianangel1911
Two powerful jedis going up in an all out lightsaber fight.
The battle will be restricted to only lightsabers and passive Force powers.
Place takes plae in the Death Star throne room.
SHARE THIS POST
i love starkiller but he’s going to get pwned
Just to clarify before any movies happen, this is EU Luke.
Starkiller uses a fighting style that he is able to defend puls attack with quick timing and cunning. these are called Shien / Djem, Juyo.- which is basiclly martial arts mixed with saber combat and artaru
Luke uses the Shien / Djem and the soresu -which is the typical defense for blaster bolts but it mobilities can be used for lightsaber defense.
Luke used several combat forms beyond those including Ataru, as well as creating his own form of combat. He’s also adaptive in his abilities. After Lumiya defeated him with a light whip he created a second shorter saber and beat her by dual wielding, a skill he had never practiced or used before.
Both of these fighters ate naturally powerful and skilled Jedi used to having to adapt to bad situations. However Starkiller was more “classically” trained compared to Luke. Both were capable of matching and beating Darth Vader but thats where the main difference is, Starkiller had trained for most of his life with a lightsaber while Luke had around a year of training when he finally beat Vader. So there’s a skill gap between them to be sure.
But didn’t Starkiller kick Lukes (who resorted to darkside powers) ass in some SW:TFU dlc?
Asode from noncanon that Luke didn’t have the learning or training yet being beginning Empire Strikes Back Luke
@SgCombine at #5
Of course he did in the Dark Side epilogue, TBF the latter’s Jedi Knight training was (even more?) rushed and TBF, Starkiller was raised to be a Force-using Assassin, what else must I add that the Admiral may wish me to note?
I think that Luke will probably come out on top in this match.
@ Guardian Angel
What’s EU Luke’s best feats concerning the saber? Starkiller is on par with Maul in a straight-up duel.
Starkiller gets pwnt
“Starkiller is on par with Maul”
Is he really? I thought Starkiller is a lot stronger than that.
So we are using Starkiller from SWU not Galen from SWU2?
Aside from noncanon that Luke didn’t have the learning or training yet being beginning Empire Strikes Back Luke
Before Luke even get any little help from Old Ben (ok so maybe not that much help). Ben died before he left Tatoinne on the DLC.
“Is he really? I thought Starkiller is a lot stronger than that.”
We’re talking strictly sabers here. Fully powered, Maul doesn’t stand a chance.
“So we are using Starkiller from SWU not Galen from SWU2?”
They are the same person.
With powers from SWTFU 2 and dual sabers, or the first incarnation?
I dunno; I assumed both versions if this is EU Luke. Unless it is EU Luke from a specific time period?
Just current EU, I just wanted to specify with the new movies and all.
As for best saber feats I’d have to look, but defeating Darth Vader with only a years worth of experience with the Force and reading about lightsaber combat in Obi-Wans journal. Defeating Lumiya in his second duel with her after just creating a shoto saber to dual wield with his standard saber creating his own version of dual wielding from scratch to defeat her.
When Palpatine was back Luke dueled him twice once, while as his dark side apprentice and once when freed from the sway of the Dark Side, Luke was the first and only known Jedi to defeat Palpatine in combat, a feat not even Yoda could accomplish.
Despite being injured Luke twice dueled evenly with Kueller another Dark Jedi that had cropped up after Palpatine’s clone died.
Another instance was during the Vong war, when Jacen was captured Luke took out several Vong while using his and Jacen’s lightsabers defeating 3 warriors before freeing Jacen and during the Battle of Artorias defeated a dozen Vong warriors.
there’s more instances and I’ll start looking for quotes but first going to find his duel with Jacen, then Darth Cadeus, where he defeated the sith.
I could see Mace Windu beating Luke in a Liightsaber duel.
“When Palpatine was back Luke dueled him twice once, while as his dark side apprentice and once when freed from the sway of the Dark Side, Luke was the first and only known Jedi to defeat Palpatine in combat, a feat not even Yoda could accomplish.”
Didn’t Windu do it using Vapaad as a passive force technique?
Anyways, this could be a super good match; I would seriously pay to watch this! *cough cough (Force Unleashed 3) cough cough…*
More Star Wars aye? Well ima go with Luke since he took both Dante and Kharn so i know he is overly Hax
Then again i never beats force unleashed 1 or 2
Forgot about Mace but point still stands, Yoda and Mace were both expert saber duelists, Yoda was able to match Palpatine while Mace managed to overpower him, so Luke would likely rank up there with Mace Windu in swordsmanship ability, at the time he defeated Palpatine once and for all.
And god I hope Force Unleashed 3 happens.
So Luke at least equals Starkiller in TFU1 in the art of the saber…I sure hope Luke is in TFU3 and Starkiller spars with him; that’d be sick. And he should use three lightsabers, juggling them as he fights, lol. Or a double-bladed lightsaber he can split into two singles…that would likewise be righteous!
Yeah skillwise I’d say their the best of the era, Luke has dueled multiple sith at a time so he’s no slouch.
As to FU3 double blade would be nice
“And he should use three lightsabers, juggling them as he fights, lol”
Luke still gets passive force powers, i.e. he still has hypersonic RT and super speed. I think Luke takes this.
I can only really think of a few things that show SK/Galen fighting melee range without the gameplay
Dodging force lightning
Most of how he fights tends to be involve force either amping his strikes, grabbing/slamming/throwing, or floating. Would those be allowed?
Disney, make this happen.
Going with mah man, Luke
are we just using jedi/good clone Starkiller or can we use the Dark Apprentice?
my intent was canon versions since even Jedi/good Starkiller uses lightning freely.
stomp takes it or takes it in a close fight? If stomp I’ll make it a straight up no force powers duel but if it’s still fair I’ll leave it.
not that the good or dark matters though, only passive abilities are allowed, as far as I know the dark apprentice in the darkside ending was no different from the regular apprentice.
I wouldn’t count out the dark apprentice just yet TFU 2 kinda hints that the Dark Apprentice is stronger than light Starkiller.
Luke’s supposed to be the best swordsman ever in SW or something, he wins.
“When Palpatine was back Luke dueled him twice once, while as his dark side apprentice and once when freed from the sway of the Dark Side, Luke was the first and only known Jedi to defeat Palpatine in combat, a feat not even Yoda could accomplish.”
Technically Mace Windu did, but Palpy arguably threw the duel.
“Didn’t Windu do it using Vapaad as a passive force technique?”
Vaapad is a variant of the seventh form of lightsaber combat, not necessarily a force technique in itself (it implies doing something similar to force rage, however, like how Ataru is based on force to aid one’s movement).
Possibly, but we don’t know with certainty, no real feats to back it up if he is. It’s one of those things that’s hard to use. Either way this is an interesting fight, both are heirs to Vader’s legacy in a way, one the apprentice one the son, both locked in combat on the Bridge of the Death Star.
That would be interesting. Although i kinda like Starkillers story more, because he’s been on both sides of the coin he has a better understanding of the balance or at least luke’s father.
technically the seventh form/Vapaad which are one in the same, was created by Windu in order to channel his darkside tendencies into positive things such as kicking Sith and Seperatist ass (can’t argue with results)
Still point stands though.
As for being the best swordsman we still shouldn’t count Starkiller out, both are masters with one and two blades, both have shown the ability to agilely leap about and combat vast numbers of opponents, both were also able to fight Palpatine, and while Starkiller didn’t win he still showed great promise and got better in FU2 so there’s a good precedent for Starkiller to be close to if not even with Luke, as we know he died before anyone really spread the word of his skills so we don’t know where he ranks, whereas Luke led a renewed Jedi order and had other Jedi and Sith to compare to.
possibly, though Luke did learn more about him in later life. The image that inspired this was the fight in said throne room with Vader watching them. Which is what made me think this would be so truly epic. Vader’s adopted son and apprentice vs Vader’s son of blood and the man who saved Vader from his own darkness locked in combat blazing lightsabers clashing in the shadowy throne room of the Death Star, one for vengeance against Vader, one to save Vader from his darkness.
It’s kinda like a metaphor of his own life. The light against the dark.
“stomp takes it or takes it in a close fight? If stomp I’ll make it a straight up no force powers duel but if it’s still fair I’ll leave it.”
Considering I’ve never seen Starkiller manage anything near hypersonic… I’m inclined to say that this is a stomp. But I guess that’s what other people are here to decide, as well.
Whats Starkiller’s best speed feat anyways?
pretty much, gotta admit would make for an epic, if noncanon video or short story.
I just want to be sure before I change anything, and before it’s too late, I’m not an absolute expert in either but I did suggest this before knowing about the hypersonic thing.
I’m inclined to agree with Aelfinn, but not just because of Luke’s increadible speed (which is just the icing on the cake), but because as a Grand Master Luke has an increadible advantage in both experience and force usage. It would be best to pick a version of Luke just a bit closer to Starkiller, since as it stands Starkiller has to face a guy who can outpower what’s basically a force hivemind, and a manifestation of chaos in the force.
What version of Luke would be the best, just before Swarm War, before the Vong war, or what?
Some time after he reinstates the Jedi Order, not during Vong Wars, definitely not after he fights Abaloth/Mother. Hell even the Jedi Academy Luke might be a bit too much. It’s hard to say at which time period Luke is closest to Starkiller, since he has so much time growing into a Jedi Master, and once he is it sort of becomes imposible to beat him…
“both were also able to fight Palpatine, and while Starkiller didn’t win he still showed great promise and got better in FU2″
He did beat Sidious. But Kota stopped him with light side bullshit, keeping him from the final blow allowing Darth S to counter.
“Whats Starkiller’s best speed feat anyways?”
Dodging force lightning(post 25). Catching or hitting tie fighters while moving at high speeds(highspeed train, falling, falling from a ship at reentry speeds). Kind of casually deflecting blaster fire. Moving ship debris out of the way of a ship that is reentering atmosphere. That’s about all I can think of.
So, he’s at least transonic to supersonic due to the TIE fighter catching feat
Luke likely still outstrips him speedwise due to his hypersonic thing
And a side note, what’s Luke’s reactions at since Luke vs Kharn? Since I was told he doesn’t have ns reactions there
No way Starkiller can beat Luke. Saber and Force Luke has a huge edge. At one point, while very badly injured and basically staying alive through Force use only, he dueled a powerful Sith Lady, and when she glanced to the side for an extremely brief moment, he cut her into three pieces. In force, Ben Skywalker, though it drained him, unleashed a force blast that could “Knock a frigate out of orbit.” Darth Caedus could overpower Ben telekinetically without much trouble, and Luke could completely immobiize Caedus with TK without any apparent effort. Waaaay better then pulling a Star Destroyer.
@Marcel comment #10
Hey! we’re not done arguing that yet!
“And a side note, what’s Luke’s reactions at since Luke vs Kharn? Since I was told he doesn’t have ns reactions there”
While I personally don’t have the evidence (which would probably be found on Luke vs. Kharn), I brought up the hypersonic feat because that is what I’ve heard he was at now. (so don’t take everything I say for granted) But he got knocked down from ns RT because the only evidence showing he was that fast was a little smidgen of a quote that could very easily be hyperbole. However, from what I hear, Luke is the absolute best Jedi ever (considering the amount of wanking that can happen when you give a fanbase the ability to write stories about a character) and he is therefore just crazy.
On a side note, I see that a lot of these comments are from newbies. It’s always good to see new blood having a logical argument that the rest of the Internet has trouble with.
It should be noted that, unlike most others who fougth Palpatine, Luke faced off against a clone of the Emperor in his prime. The duel, as stated by Leia, was so intense that she could not keep up with their movements, and could merely feel the clashing of their power. Starkiller however, faces the difficulty of not having a good measure of his maximum speed (as his usage of force speed is normally for short bursts). He should, however have the upper hand in clashing strength thanks to his use of Force Rage and Force Lightning to empower his lightsaber blows.
so Starkiller has more striking power and Luke has a slight speed edge then? I know I’m wasting one of my last posts before I can change anything but since we all seem to want this to be the best fight possible so long as we all agree to the change for the sake of debate it should be good if we decide to change it.
also like Aelfinn said it’s wonderful to see new people on the site that are debating logically, it’s renewed my debating spirit to have a couple good debates here and on one of the other sites I’m on recently.
“Vaapad is a variant of the seventh form of lightsaber combat, not necessarily a force technique in itself (it implies doing something similar to force rage, however, like how Ataru is based on force to aid one’s movement).”
Vaapad as designed by Windu is a passive Force technique in and of itself according to RotS novel. Vaapad left one as an open channel of the Force, where one takes the anger/rage/Force that the attacker is unleashing upon him and sends it through himself BACK onto its source (hence why Mace’s lightsaber actually deflected Sidious’ lightning back into his face instead of merely blocking it, like Obi-Wan did with Dooku).
I said nothing about who was better, lol. However, one cannot deny that Starkiller IS a match for Maul; which is why I said he is ON PAR with Maul. I do agree that the outcome has yet to be decided.
I wasn’t aware the “superconducting loop” was Vaapad itself, I thought it was just part of it.
In addition to new debaters we’re getting a lot of good matches too, it’s a great time to be a ‘piler.
Starkiller is easily my second favorite character of the series and I am definetly a fanboy, however even I, with my biased view know’s that starkiller would get murdered by the vast power of grand jedi master Luke skywalker. A better battle would be Revan vs Luke, now that would be a battle.
That’s why I limited it to saber combat and passive force powers (speed agility enhancing physical prowess) and no “aggressive” (tk, lightning, fireball etc)
I still would go with Skywalker, the guy who can slaughter a Sith Lady in a milisecond after she glances away for the slightest amount of time, rather then the guy who can’t beat Vader even when using non-passive without a trick (TFU2 Novelization).
Though this doesn’t really matter, I can’t stand Starkiller as a character, or the storylines, though the gameplay is pretty good.
“rather then the guy who can’t beat Vader even when using non-passive without a trick”
But, he beat the shit out Vader in FU 1 regardless of good or bad ending. Also most of the cinematics for FU2 showed him besting Vader when they clashed and Vader constantly running.
He beat him because he spammed Force Lightning, which Vader is naturally weak against. Luke beat Vader in a straight on, force-less duel. Not to mention Luke’s TK beats the crap out of Marek’s.
“He beat him because he spammed Force Lightning, which Vader is naturally weak against.”
But he was already beating him up till that point though. Both in the saber dueling and getting pass Vader’s miscellaneous tricks like the lightsaber throw and tk thrown objects.
Holy shit, Lowk became the internet!
In the Novelization he wasn’t doing well against Vader, and even if he was, Luke beat Vader when faaaaar below his highest power level.
How do you do Italics?
It’s html code. It’s easier for you to google it than for me to explain, but it involves the sideways carrots on the keyboard. It’s not too difficult once you know what to do.
I think Luke takes this. Starkillers big thing is being able to apply a lot of force(both kinds) into his attacks. Luke however has speed advantage so all he really has to do is avoid the strikes in the first place. On top of that Luke has got years of experience on him unless it turns out that SK lived on to lead a long hidden life.
“Holy shit, Lowk became the internet!”
I, had not thought of it that way. That’s a lot better then seeing people address their arguments at “the internet”.
“In the Novelization he wasn’t doing well against Vader”
The game actually shows he was though.
“Luke beat Vader when faaaaar below his highest power level.”
Don’t think power level effects this match to much since the force is kind of restricted/limited here. Like I mention above I think it Luke speed and years/experience that helps give him the win.
Anyone know how fast Stakillers is pushing himself here?
Also when Jedi/Sith fall from great heights or speeds what exactly are they doing to keep from being splattered and breaking bones? It’s always nagged me a bit when I’ve noticed this.
“Anyone know how fast Stakillers is pushing himself here?”
Oog, hard to say…
“Also when Jedi/Sith fall from great heights or speeds what exactly are they doing to keep from being splattered and breaking bones? It’s always nagged me a bit when I’ve noticed this.”
One of the Novels (can’t remember which one) mentioned that they gathered the Force in and around them like a sort of “cushion” to reduce the force of the impact.
So we know that both of these guys can beat Vader in a saber-to-saber scenario, and Anakin/Vader (along with Obi-Wan) according to RotS novel has an RT that is a “respectable fraction of lightspeed.” I really have to question whose RT is faster, and depending on the time period Luke is from, who has more experience. Anybody got an age on Starkiller, along with the age he was when he was taken by Vader? He spent a loooooong time as Vader’s apprentice, and has faced and defeated perhaps as many or more styles of combat than Luke has.
did Starkiller ever face anyone using a lightwhip?
“did Starkiller ever face anyone using a lightwhip?”
Not that I remember, but he has faced opponents with:
Rapid-fire plasma weapons
All seven forms of lightsaber combat
Dual wield lightsabers
I’ll post more if I remember more
Remembered some more:
Regular metal blades
Droids designed to combat Force-sensitives
Duranium and Cortosis armour
Also, I messed up on the interpretation of Obi-Wan and Anakin’s RTs. The quote refers to an individual ship flying towards a pilot “at a respectable fraction of lightspeed.” However, the example given for the feat was not entirely accurate, as Anakin and Obi-Wan were flying towards each other. Thus, they were BOTH travelling at said respectable fraction of lightspeed, effectively halving the the time it takes for them to reach each other as well as the time each has to react to the other. In short, each Jedi/Sith’s RT was near lightspeed. However, we do not know how close to lightspeed the original reference implies, therefore we cannot make the claim that their RTs were AT lightspeed or above. We only know that the original number was close to lightspeed, so double that, and we get a conservative estimate of VERY close to lightspeed. And Starkiller keeps up with Vader pretty easily, even besting him in combat. Twice.
Oh to help with that on Lukes reactions it’s GrandMaster unless we all decide otherwise. And he’s at least as good a pilot as his father was so likely has similar reactions then to Vader at his best.
As for Luke he’s fought most if not all of those listed (I believe anyway)
dozens of Sith Lords of all kinds
light whips (which have their own fighting style altogether)
Not sure if he’s actually faced all the forms of combat but considering how little training he had when he beat Vader having only read Obi Wan’s journal, I think it’s safe to say that’s likely nonfactor.
He also absorbed and deflected an AT-AT blast and like Starkiller has slaughtered plenty of Rancors.
honestly this duel might come down to psychological warfare, Luke has used a version of the Sith Dun Möch technique which is basically taunting with some force laid into it (to manipulate emotions) he used it to turn Vader back to good though that was his intent for it so *shrugs. However it’s likely he wouldn’t be above using it to screw with Starkiller’s head if pushed to it. And as even as these two seem the two of them pulling it out wouldn’t be a surprise.
“Oh to help with that on Lukes reactions it’s GrandMaster unless we all decide otherwise. And he’s at least as good a pilot as his father was so likely has similar reactions then to Vader at his best.”
K, cool, thx for clarifying. Has Luke ever fought anybody like Proxy, that changes between combat styles and even weapons within fractions of a second?
Sry for the double post here, but what is stronger a TIE fighter cannon blast or an AT-AT blast? Cuz Starkiller parries (And even tanks in-game) TIE bolts.
“honestly this duel might come down to psychological warfare, Luke has used a version of the Sith Dun Möch technique which is basically taunting with some force laid into it (to manipulate emotions) he used it to turn Vader back to good though that was his intent for it so *shrugs. However it’s likely he wouldn’t be above using it to screw with Starkiller’s head if pushed to it.”
Didn’t Vader try something like that? All it seemed to do was make starkiller fight harder. Also would that be allowed under the limitations.
“Didn’t Vader try something like that?”
It DID make him fairly angry…that is, if you are referring to all the shadowy misty crap and mind games+surprise attacks at the beginning of the first Vader fight in TUF2
I honestly don’t know, I’m wary on if it actually requires the Force
As far as I know, he hasn’t fought someone like Proxy, the closest would be the fact that Amphistaffs can change between a staff and a whip form instantly (since their snakes that can…work that way…)
on the which is stronger the Tie uses the L-s1 laser cannon
the AT-AT uses the MS-1 fire-linked heavy laser cannon
I don’t have any numbers but I’m guessing heavy laser cannon > laser cannon
Oh and yeah Vader tried it on Starkiller and what happened is referred to bluntly as backfire (I mean literally) It also happened when he tried it on Luke during the duel on the deathstar.
And Luke beat Vader when he was barely trained, Starkiller trained for 20 years and still only beat Vader via lightning in the first, and lightning and a trick in the second. I would also say Vader’s reaction time is slower since Mustafar, and that the ROTS quote is more of a planned force event, as they both knew what they were doing, and timed it. Generally Starkiller vs an average Jedi will take a while, whilst Luke, when very badly injured, after taking out near 20 Sith, was fighting a Sith Lady, and in the tiny fraction of a second she looked at a flash of light out of the corner of her eye, he cut her in four pieces.
Those 20 years Starkiller was corrupted by the dark-side, he didn’t know what to believe. Corrupted or not, Starkiller was trained to kill Jedi and has a lot more experience than Luke does. Plus F.U.L is a video game, if Starkiller wanted to, he can kill more sith/jedi than Luke could.
wow someone completely ignored that we’re using EU Luke who has a wealth of experience.
“Starkiller was trained to kill Jedi and has a lot more experience than Luke does. Plus F.U.L is a video game, if Starkiller wanted to, he can kill more sith/jedi than Luke could.”
That may be the worst quote I’ve seen since “I think dumbledore could beat Superman.”
@LittleEpp at #77
I thought ‘Kharn will auto-kill Odin’ was worse, or was it Darkseid, or even Goku?
Though seriously, I feel worried that not only did whoever said that failed to regard it depends on which E.U era we’re talking about for both respective sides, but he might not have read the whole fight to begin with.
when did you see that?
“when did you see that?”
I think it was in a Harry Potter vs Harry Dresden.
Wait no, I think that was a different potter fanboy. I think D v Supes was a Ladidala thing.
I remembered the Potter could I just didn’t remember anyone saying Dumbledore could
“Starkiller trained for 20 years and still only beat Vader via lightning in the first, and lightning and a trick in the second”
Not according to this:
I don’t see any lightning.
“the ROTS quote is more of a planned force event, as they both knew what they were doing, and timed it.”
Ok, but they still had to TIME it, exactly like you said. Not to mention both of them trash Magnaguards that have lightspeed reflexes. Incidentally, why exactly would Vader’s RT be slower?
“Generally Starkiller vs an average Jedi will take a while”
So where does this stand can Starkiller take the Jedi Grand Master or does Luke put down the Sith turned Jedi
Looks pretty even so far. Incidentally, call me whatever you want to for asking this, but what does *bump* mean?
just what people say when their bumping a thread up to the recent comments section.
since todays match seems to be a bit of a dud and I’m bored thought I’d find some good undecided matches and try and get some attention to them.
Ah, gotcha. This one is really close right now; RT/combat diversity seems roughly the same right now, Starkiller appears to have a slight edge in the variety of opponents he has faced, Luke appears to have a slight edge in passive Force powers. What’s Grandmaster Luke’s strength like?
At Lukes absolute strongest……equivalent to Nihilus
Nihilus was a beast, I presume?
Nihilus was…to the Force what Galactus is to planets. The dude was basically a living embodiment of the Dark Side.
Oh…my bad, I was asking about physical strength, lol. Yeah, there’s no denying what the Wound in the Force was capable of…not everyone can wipe out the life of a planet just by speaking!
whoops my bad.
Physical strength….possibly a bit higher than Starkiller, if only due to being prone to putting a lot more Force (as in using the Force to enhance his abilities) into it. Plus he’s fought people with more physical strength in the past so he’s likely gotten in the habit of keeping himself amped.
Do you think anyone Luke has ever fought been capable of this (strength-wise) in a hand-to-hand fight?
See from 2:42-2:46
he’s fought cqc droids and the Vong, who are likely close to Proxy in physical power
I guess I was referring to Starkiller tossing Proxy…again, poor wording on my part, sry!
No my bad didn’t actually skip to the time marks didn’t notice them let me watch that part
mmmmm I’d say that’s something any Jedi could do….and while I may be mishearing it sounds like that’s a force toss/shove/push when he does that, it has the same “sound effects” the force pushes do in game but I could be wrong.
K, so roughly the same in strength, questionable advantage Luke. Man, this is close! We need something in either side’s favour to tip the scales…how’bout durability? Starkiller survived a three-minute fall (conservative value), plus tanked hits from the Gorog.
hmm durability feats, well in his family (including the Solo’s) he’s one of the three who achieved oneness (not including his dad who may have) the others being Anikan Solo and Jacen Solo, the important one here is Anikan, who’s body was fucked up on the cellular level to death (though being poisioned my have had something to do with it but still) by drawing so much force energy into himself, meanwhile Luke achieved it and did not suffer the same detrimental effects when fighting Abeloth or when duelling a hoard of Vong bred Jedi killers. I’ll see if there’s more though.
Click here to cancel reply.
You must be logged in to post a comment.