Published on November 28, 2012, by admin - Posted in Duels 120
Suggested by itcheyness
Similar to the Russia Vs China match, it’s a total war between the two nations in the present day.
Which side would win?
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I honestly don’t know which of these two would win
I don’t eve-
guessing this doesn’t seem like a good match idea to you?
Awesome, another country match.
Initial bets are with Iran, their standing army is a great deal larger than Saudi Arabia’s, they have over twice the population, and a better GDP.
Saudia Arabia has a slightly larger, and definetly better air force with Saudi Arabia operating the F-15, arguably the best air superiority fighter currently in production, save the F-22. Navies most likely will not be a major factor, though Iran’s is most likely better.
If supplies from other countries are allowed, than Saudi Arabia will have a better supply chain, If they are not, I think the difference in air force will be negated by Iran’s superior industry, and major edge in population.
Sorry for double post, but if the war drags on, Iran is closer than we had initially thought to getting nuclear weapons.
Because when the first attempt at this concept turns in to a complete flop we should do it again, right?
anyone have an idea what matches are going to be posted the next couple of days? Just curious since sometimes people know.
It wasn’t that bad, we had a little debate going for a while. It’s a good change of pace.
On MC vs Bayonetta someone said Luke Skywalker vs Kharn was going up December 1.
right, heard about that one, meant more tomorrow and the next day the days between now and the 1st.
How many posts did the Russia Vs China Disqus version have?
Though the F-15 is one of the worlds best Air Superiority fighter, the Iranian Air Force fly the F-14, which is no slouch in the air, true it has slightly less manoeuvrability than the F-15, but they’re not outmatched to any significant degree. All down to the how well trained the pilots are.
My vote goes to iran thanks to there army size, nukes and the size of saudi arabia iran will crush and rape.
…Know what gives?
This match-up might actually be interesting, I hope.
Although in any case, good to see you again, last I heard was at the beginning of the month when a 40K moron* revealed a skeleton in the closet, so to speak.
1.) (I have no beef with the true 40K fans out there, but I’ll save it for another time!)
If Air superiority is up for grabs that makes things fairly interesting. And while Navy isn’t overly important to these two naval engagements are still helpful and blockades are always fun
Saudi Arabia comes in at 2,250,000 km2 or 870,000 sq mi. While Iran is only 1,648,195 km2 or 636,372 sq mi.
Though Iran has about 50m more population size, and around double the size of it’s standing army.
Looking at the map though, to reach each other they’d have to cross the Persian Gulf, so Iran’s better Navy will give them the advantage.
Yeah navy will play a big part when you look at a map, their directly across the persian gulf from each other, however Saudi Arabia also has to defend the Gulf of Aden and Red Sea to protect both sides of the nation that are bordered by water meaning their full Naval might will likely not be able to mass an attack on any major cities while Iran can mass heavier hitting attacks on Saudi Arabia’s coastline.
I think that in the air Iran will be more effective, as they have better goals. In order to win Saudi Arabia either needs to demolish Iran’s industry or give constant air support. All Iran needs to do is protect it’s industry and let it’s army do the work. Since Iran has the F-14, which is a great interceptor, they should be able to hold off Saudi attacks, and let their army win.
Also, something I hadn’t though of before is that because of the nature of the countries and total war, there will not be any real restrictions, which means fights will take place beyond visual range, which helps Iran, as the Tomcat’s AIM-54 Pheonix can track 6 targets at longer range than the F-15′s AMRAAM can track 2.
Just for people who don’t care that much about aircraft, the F-14 was the one in Top Gun.
So, I vote for Iran.
I’ve just been looking up on their respective navies. Saudi Arabia’s constitutes heavily of Frigates, Corvettes and Patrol boats, whereas Iran comes in with a medium sized retinue of submarines, a handful of Destroyers on top of their Frigates and corvettes, also some missile ships.
Iran’s land forces main worry is that most of Saudi Arabia is just wild desert, I’m sure they will be used to fighting in such conditions, but sand is a bitch that gets in everywhere.
So I’m going to put in my vote for Iran too.
From what i know iran is more in a attack mode and has a better millatary infarstruture
If were going air then both planes are evenly match and i see going either way
The zulfwar tank is Iran’s main battle tankThe tank has a distinctive box-shaped, steel-welded turret of local design. The Zulfiqar is believed to be developed from major components of the Russian T-72 and American M48 and M60 tanks
Yeah, side by side F-14 and F-15 are both equally good, each with slight advantages in different areas, so the war won’t be decided by air. Full Military Iran has more troops overall which can lead to an edge in a long term war. Iran also has more airports so more places for their aircraft to scramble from as important cities start getting attacked.
Again Saudi Arabia has two large accessible coasts with major cities along them to Iran’s 1 Iran’s navy can take advantage and has more targets to hit than Saudi Arabia has. Saudi Arabia has to get it’s forces onto or over Iran to really start causing damage but they can also only attack from one spot limiting options of invasion style to either hitting the coastline with everything they have D-Day style, or slipping in infiltrators. While going all the way around through Iraq is possible for both it will also take a lot more time and isn’t the best bet for trying to get a quick foothold on the other nations soil. Iran can take an early advantage if they hit the coasts and start taking major cities which may force Saudi Arabia to focus on defense and allow Iran to move around the coast.
If I’m Iran, looking at a map the best city to capture is Bahrain, from there its all but a straight shot to Saudi Arabia’s capital city, Riyadh. They could likely if they pull off a blitzkreig style attack take the Saudi capital within the first month or so, depending on Saudi morale this could prove a devastating blow to the nation.
scratch that Bahrain is a small country right on the coast of Saudi, way I had the map on google maps it looked like a city needed to zoom in to see it wasn’t. So my bad there.
dont forget nukes iran has tons of them
if the Iranian military gets a foothold around Damman in Saudi Arabia they have a shot down one of the major highways (highway 40 though I don’t know anything beyond the number google maps shows) straight to Riyadh, from there they can attack any city in Saudi Arabia on all fronts.
This depends heavily on which side hired the A team.
Iran actually doesn’t currently have any functioning WMD’s
oh i meant saudi arabia had a ton of them
Yeah, scratch my earlier comment of blitzkrieg style attack giving early capture of the capital in the first month, that is some seriously massive distance now that I look more closely, first few months is more likely. Especially with an air force base in the area they have to get a foothold.
yeah they have 50-60 that they bought from the Chinese as far as missile capability goes
Iran does have Chemical WMD’s though, and while not nuclear Chemical Weapons are just as nasty in the long run.
Found a list of aircraft Iran has by category.
36 operational F-14 Tomcats
24 Dassault Mirage F1′s
21 operational Chengdu F-7 Airguard Chinese fighters.
5 operational HESA Saeqeh fighters
66 total operation of the F4 Phantoms (18 type D 48 type E)
297 total F5′s (various types)
12 HESA Azarakhsh
24 Sukhoi Su-24
I’ll do the makeup of Saudi Arabia’s Air Force next
also not that’s not counting helicopters, listing everything would take way too long. for more depth en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Iranian_Air_Force look there.
okay not going to try and do a list again, just here’s the Saudi Airforcemakeup en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Saudi_Air_Force#Current_aircraft_inventory
Should either side get develope nukes IRL before this match has ended we will not be using them. Chemical weapons are okay though.
chemical weapons are deadliy they could just chem the whole country and attack
Actually it looks like Iran is very against Chemical weapons.
Got any proof of them having any?
Okay that makes things more fun if countries can’t just blow the other off the map.
Okay looking at infantry makeup
(specifics can be found here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Saudi_Land_Forces#Main_equipment
Saudi Arabia: 150,000
Main Battle tank numbers:
Saudi Arabia: 1353 of various tanks
Iran: 2695 various tanks
I really don’t feel like listing out everything on those lists though, but overall Iran seems to hold all the cards as far as ground combat goes and can put up a hell of a fight in the air, Saudi’s main hope is to be able to defend themselves with minimal losses and hope their navy can kick some Iranian ass.
Hey GA no fair! Revealing where we get out secret info from!
I was originally going to link the Wiki’s but I know that FP generally hates Wiki’s, sooo ;P
So it seems that saudi arabia will be entiry in defense saying Iran has many more units and tanks then saudi arabia
in that same section it says the stockpiled some chemical weapons, or so the US believed. I don’t know what leads the government to believe it but what they say is all we have to go on really.
and looking at the naval details Iran just flat holds all the cards there too with submarines and the Saudi’s not really having much in the way of anti submarine boats even if you have some ships with torpedo’s that’s not exactly helpful.
based on what I can tell from the makeup of the armies if Iran makes the first move and hits the coast of Saudi Arabia hard with an invasion it should cause some serious problems.
I was lazy and didn’t feel like listing all the little details.
I normally wouldn’t resort to Wiki’s but they have those nice charts of the military units, and there’s not much info out there from “legitimate sources”
But overall it looks like if Saudi Arabia can’t hold the line during Iran’s initial invasion their screwed.
Something else that is likely important is Iran has more military industry than Saudi Arabia, while the bulk of their equipment is imported in total war Iran will likely out produce Saudi Arabia if not including allies like with the Russia vs China one.
Yeah, The US also believed the same thing about Iraq and look how that turned out…
Also I think the Saudi airforce would be able to beat back the Iranian airforce and establish air superiority if not outright air supremacy. They have a higher number of more advanced aircraft and the ability to get spare parts for them. Iran definitely doesn’t have that ability for the F-14 at least, the US made sure of that.
“It wasn’t that bad, we had a little debate going for a while. It’s a good change of pace.”
No, you didn’t have a debate. It was a few dozen posts of “China gets fucking raped by Russia.” with a few baseless claims in China’s favor being thrown out by people who don’t know any better. That’s what this is going to be. Iran is THE major power everyone has eyes on in the middle east. Saudi Arabia is going to get steam rolled in this match. This is a lame fucking match, just like how China vs Russia was a lame fucking match. The two aren’t even comparable. It’s just “let’s throw two vaguely similar real life nations at each other WITH NO RESEARCH TO SEE IF THIS IS EVEN FAIR” and that is it. There’s no attempt to find two nations which are comparable in power, and even if there was one would probably forget to check other shit like their economy, which can cripple a nation which otherwise looks like it should be winning (such as Nazi Germany). These matches are EVENTUALLY going to attract really negative attention to, and not just the bullshit we were slinging around for fun in the science vs religion match, but actual partisans who will probably get really negative as they begin arguing with each other. EVERYTHING about this match and the previous two nations match is a very bad idea, and show a lack of fore thought on those who suggest them, those who support them, and on Admin’s part as well.
Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.
i agree but i still think we should have a metal gear solid vs. halo match
True enough so they might have chemical weapons but more than likely not.
Iran has gotten better at their war industry for us not helping them though, and they do have more domestic military equipment than the Saudi’s and the main manufacturer of new infantry transports for Saudi is in a city that’s in the area of the coast Iran is most likely to attack as is the main airforce base. Advantages in the sea and land and near equal at first in air doesn’t bode well in that initial assault between bombardment from ships and the ground attack fighters that Iran has. Saudi Arabia’s naval forces defending that area will likely be fairly thin due to the Iranians numbers letting them hit multiple areas along Saudi Arabia’s plentiful coastline, lack of submarine defenses doesn’t bode well either. once the ground forces hit though Saudi is in for having to defend against a nation that is ranked 8 by number of troops with their own army that’s ranked 24 on that same list.
done right these matches could be very interesting. Perhaps they should be discussed a bit more on the topia before suggesting but they could be interesting.
So you’re just sort of assuming that the Saudis will be taken by surprise? Remember the Saudis are flying F-15s, a plane that has never, ever been beaten in air combat, the Iranians however are flying MiG-29s A plane the the F-15 has dealt with in the past. Also according to Wikipedia Iran has an estimated 36 F-14s still operational. Their other fighters are F4 Phantoms (which will be torn apart) a chinese copy of the MiG-21 (which will be torn apart) Mirage F-1s (which will be torn apart) and some F-5s (which will be torn apart).
The Saudis will dominate when it comes to the air war because they aircraft are superior to Iran’s and they have more of their best aircraft (the F-15) than Iran does of their’s (the F-14)
“done right these matches could be very interesting. Perhaps they should be discussed a bit more on the topia before suggesting but they could be interesting.”
I feel this is a terrible process as well. I occasionally see matches which were CLEARLY discussed elsewhere before being presented, and I see multiple names on them implying the only reason the match is even up is because Admin literally got swamped with suggestions for that match. Usually info dumps are presented immediately, and no one bothers with the match because of TL;DR and those people who are primarily interested in it already discussed all of the major points elsewhere and largely have come to a conclusion. This renders the match completely pointless because this is a debate website, and the debating for the match was already done elsewhere, resulting in the match looking like little more than “Look at how cool this character is who gets some unknown kinds of bonus points for defeating another fictional, non existing character in our imaginations.” Or in this case, arm chair generals huffing on about how their preferred nation dominates the other. Just do a little research if you’re knowledgeable on the subject to make sure this isn’t a stomp, and then present it to factpile, and if it catches Admin’s eye then it gets accepted.
True however they also have to deal with Iran’s air defenses if they do attack Iran first, and Iran has a lot more Air Defense than Saudi Arabia does.
The air power has little use. With their sea power crushed and no way to stop the ground advance, Saudi Arabia could be flying Robotech Valkyries and still gets their asses handed to them once their air fields are taken. Give it up, Itcheyness.
Iran Freaking Wins
metal gear solid vs. halo match anyone?
..I always get confused. Is he EXPERT with a new name?
No im a new the expert he’s expert and im the expert
Ok. That clears things up. I thought you were too not-troll to be Expert.
It’s easy to differentiate, for one this The Expert isn’t calling us all sheep that should follow him, and attempting to lord it over us.
I agree with Sauro. These type of matches are pointless. People just see which one has a superior piece of equipment and then announce them the winner not taking into consideration logistics and which opponent can make the other suffer via superior situation. In this particular scenario Iran has the superior Navy. That can mitigate the air superiority of The Saudis since those planes need aircraft carriers and air fields to be of any real use which will be smacked by the Iranians superior ships and steamrolled by their manpower.
Iran loses. Their military equipment numbers are bloated to appear more dangerous than they actually are. They account for aircraft and tanks that are nonoperational and even scrapped. Their F14s are nonoperational as they have not been able to purchase replacement parts for over 16 years. That goes for most of their ‘modern’ tech.
They have no operational air craft to patrol their borders, eh? Not according to the US Government.
nobody said they ha ni aircraft. Who said that? Wasnt me because it clearly says in my post that their numbers are bloated not that they had zero aircraft. Even B-list celebrities have aircraft…
Goddamn retard site send this shit back to disqus! *nobody said they have no aircraft.
Or, and here’s a huge stretch of the imagination, you could proofread your comment before posting.
shut your cock sucker bitch! You cant scroll up in this tiny text window on a droid and there’s no fucking edit button with this site’s windows 95 format.
Well too god damn bad I guess. You should blame a site for your own failures.
Just like your mom blames the condom factory for you?
Heh such pathetic words. My point still stands.
Stands like your dick when you see me?
Right right, you’re perverted scum, I forgot. Sorry guys, please continue without us.
Go wash your mouth out with buckshot and stop derailing matches
Oh please don’t try to act righteous, we all know your game.
“shut your cock sucker bitch! You cant scroll up in this tiny text window on a droid and there’s no fucking edit button with this site’s windows 95 format.”
I have never had a problem traversing the site on my phone, nor have I had a problem using it with my phone. I’ve always found it a breeze to go through.
WTF man your just being a dick
“Go wash your mouth out with buckshot”
Telling someone to go commit suicide will probably catch the attention of the Admin, fair warning.
WTF man your just being a dick
If that’s you would like to perceive, however that isn’t going to stop me. So you might as well quit now.
Ok ill just stop
im sorry for calling you a dick because i understand why your being a dick now
Is it possible for admin to ban an IP?
He’s banned before. If you say “All blacks are X” or “All Jews are Y” or “I’ll do A & B to you” or stuff like that, then you’re in trouble. A, B, X, and Y are variables obviously for (insert whatever terrible thing here). Then you’re asking for trouble. I believe implying violence (or, more specifically, death) towards an individual is covered. There’s a few unspoken things which I think might also earn the ban.
Haven’t seen the banhanner in a while lol
Look at all these trolls! A twenty post derail all brought on by the troll king ‘thesorrow’! Stay on topic or I’m giving you all a 30 day ban!
Sorrow us our resident “don’t give a Fuck”. Just leave him be and debate in an intelligent manner, and he won’t rip you a new one.
It’s kind of a pain on my phone but I deal with it. Any typos I just correct in a subsequent post
Quit peasant, know that your place is always beneath us.
You are having -way- too much fun with him, Sorrow.
Does anybody actually care about this match,personally i dont but just asking because it looks like a troll bashing thread.
You are having -way- too much fun with him, Sorrow.
I know I know.
I actually think that the banhammer on the mainland was only used once. From what I hear, the guy was mad-racist.
“No, you didn’t have a debate. It was a few dozen posts of “China gets fucking raped by Russia.” with a few baseless claims in China’s favor being thrown out by people who don’t know any better. That’s what this is going to be. Iran is THE major power everyone has eyes on in the middle east. Saudi Arabia is going to get steam rolled in this match. ”
There was a debate going on China vs. Russia, especially when China’s superior industry was brought up. Just because it started with “Russia wins” posts does not mean it can not develop into something more.
Also, if this was in today’s world, with in-place economic sanctions, the entire Western world would be supporting Saudi Arabia. They have the oil the West so desperately needs, and they don’t have people in charge threatening to destroy everyone. People watch Iran because they might gain nukes and be crazy enough to use them.
Fuck you, Murder.
“Also, if this was in today’s world, with in-place economic sanctions, the entire Western world would be supporting Saudi Arabia. They have the oil the West so desperately needs, and they don’t have people in charge threatening to destroy everyone. People watch Iran because they might gain nukes and be crazy enough to use them.”
But it’s not in today’s world. It’s just the two of them.
“I actually think that the banhammer on the mainland was only used once. From what I hear, the guy was mad-racist.”
That’d be the story I was thinking of.
You just made my fucking day LMFAO
“But it’s not in today’s world. It’s just the two of them.”
Which certainly seems to indicate an Iranian win, doesn’t it? I do not believe that it would be a fast campaign, but Iran holds a lot of the cards.
However, are the current sanctions on Iran lifted for this match? The decision either way may in fact determine the fight.
“You just made my fucking day LMFAO”
With the “Fuck you, Murder” post? Yeah, fuck him.
This is…not quite so clear-cut, it seems.
Why do I get the gut hunch that this is one matter that can’t be easily resolved via virtue of manpower or combat tactics on the field?
1.) (Although at least there’s no nukes!)
“Which certainly seems to indicate an Iranian win, doesn’t it? I do not believe that it would be a fast campaign, but Iran holds a lot of the cards.”
I actually find both Iran and Saudi Arabia to be two very uninteresting countries. I’ve always been turned off by middle eastern culture. It never struck a cord with me the same way it seems to appeal to many. However, if two nations were selected which I have more interest in, I think the combat itself should be pushed aside to discuss something far more interesting. What would the two nations do with an empty Earth? We’re NOT HERE to fuck with their fight for dominance. They have a WHOLE PLANET with which to do as they please. How would this new open resource effect them? Who would best exploit it? Ect, ect, ect. It’s something I’d like to talk about.. just not with these two countries. Maybe WW2 Era Germany and Japan, or even earlier.
Once again thank you for your critical thinking skills. You have a VERY good point
Saudi Arabia would have a big problem- they would have to guard Riyadh and their oil fields, but their people and a lot of their leadership will demand they protect Mecca and Medina as well, despite the fact that they are far behind the front lines. Of course, if Iran somehow uses Iraq as an invasion point, Mecca and Medina could be major targets. Saudi Arabia is also mostly flat desert, which is perfect for tank battles. Iranian tanks are much better than Saudi Arabian tanks in terms of training, although the Saudi tank force is more modern thanks to US help. Iran also has a manpower advantage, as well as the fact that their country is mostly mountain, which would certainly help them in case of an invasion. In either case, neither side has the logistics to invade each other. They don’t have the necessary transports for both troops and supplies. Probably stalemate, until Iran develops nukes. Then, game over for Saudi Arabia. Although, could this be considered? According to rumors, Saudi Arabia has a plane in Pakistan. Inside the plane are suitcases containing several million dollars. Outside of the plane, there are 2 nuclear weapons. In the case of war, the suitcases would be traded for the nukes, and Saudi Arabia would suddenly be a nuclear power. Of course, all of this is rumors and I doubt it is allowed in Factpile.
Btw, anybody want to see a terran Marauder vs a Space Marine? It seems much more fair than a terran marine vs a Space marine.
@Pete at #99
Only if you’re gonna get the decency to state the exact Chapter said Space Marine in question’s coming from, tell me you’re aware of the various chapters going on.
Otherwise use a Blood Raven or a Space Wolf for starters if you are not.
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