Borg Vs Imperium of Man

Borg Vs Imperium of Man

Suggested by Sauroposeidon

Neither side in this match up have had a full out throw down fight in a while. With ridiculous numbers, shield draining tech, and an exceedingly high willingness to pirate any new technology they come across, the Borg are set to take down the Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40K). But the Imperium isn’t willing to go down with out a fight, and has some of the most visually intimidating and stunningly effective ships in the history of European Sci-Fi.

The setting is the edge of Imperium controlled space. The Borg (Star Trek) have begun the process of attacking an assimilating lesser defended worlds in an attempt to swell their ranks and adapt their defenses to Imperium weaponry while stealing any useful tech they can find. Can the Imperium defend against this new incursion? What if they did not have to deal with the other threats they face on all sides? Will they stop the Borg, or will the cyborg race devour the Imperium, turning it in to just another brick in the wall?

The Borg may not use Time Travel more than the number of times they have been shown to do such in Trek.

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486 Comments on "Borg Vs Imperium of Man"

  1. Murder November 29, 2012 at 7:25 am -      #1

    Not much tech the borg can use. Im easily siding with IoM for now but will debate for the borg later.

  2. StealthRanger November 29, 2012 at 7:28 am -      #2

    Ugh, seriously?

    IoM stomp the Borg with ease

  3. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 8:02 am -      #3

    If I recall, the Borg require exterminatus level weaponry to bring them down through sheer force, and favor the use of tractor beams to lock down targets and drain them of their shields and energy, rendering the target vulnerable to direct attacks. Armed with impressive FTL (for Trek), I think they have a good chance of obtaining an IoM equivalent of Locutus to give them the advantage they need against the Imperium.

  4. Runeblue November 29, 2012 at 8:26 am -      #4

    And what is stopping the IoM from just striking at the hive mind with all capable psykers.

  5. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 8:36 am -      #5

    “And what is stopping the IoM from just striking at the hive mind with all capable psykers.”

    Well that is the double edged sword of assimilation, isn’t it? If the Borg lose their Locutus-type back to the IoM they’d be at a major disadvantage and I would argue that they’d not be able to overcome that sort of blow.. but it’s not like the Borg didn’t come back after the Borg Queen was taken out before.

  6. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 8:39 am -      #6

    Could the space marine immune system repel the borg nanovirus?

  7. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 8:41 am -      #7

    “Could the space marine immune system repel the borg nanovirus?”

    I’m not certain. They account for so little of the IoM’s population that I hadn’t stopped to consider them. I was mostly thinking of Imperial Guardsmen and space ship fights.

  8. PwNaGE TraiN November 29, 2012 at 8:52 am -      #8

    I literally just had this argument with a sibling. We could not come to an agreement to it, for the Borg’s ability to evolve to any situation and learn from another dying makes it very hard to kill large numbers of them because they learn from how a comrade died so they know what they can do, can expect it and think of a way to counter it. Although it is the IoM, which are not just average common nameless soliders they are space marines. Personally I’d side with the IoM, for if they were able to board the Borg cube they could shut down the main computer controlling all the borg, correct me if I am wrong but the Space Marines probably have a way to board other sips in space. I’m siding for the Space Marines for now but the Borgs ability to evolve and quick learning might give the Space Marines a little trouble, but I think the Space Marines will take this victory.

  9. Runeblue November 29, 2012 at 8:52 am -      #9

    But then again this isn’t just one Borg Queen, the psykers could channel to every Borg if they are connected.

  10. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 8:52 am -      #10

    Well, If the Borg assimilate some SM’s, sh*t’s goin down.

  11. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 8:53 am -      #11

    @Runeblade
    Then why not do that to the Tyranids? Perhaps the power of the borg hivemind would resist psychic attack.

  12. The Expert November 29, 2012 at 8:54 am -      #12

    My vote goes to the IOM for now

  13. Runeblue November 29, 2012 at 8:58 am -      #13

    @Praetor
    But then again wouldn’t the tyranids have devoured SOME psychic biomass and then might have become more resistant whereas the Borg have no such protection.

  14. PwNaGE TraiN November 29, 2012 at 9:05 am -      #14

    @Runeblade
    Can one Psyker control the whole hive mind, or can he only control one borg drone at a time?

  15. Runeblue November 29, 2012 at 9:10 am -      #15

    @PwNaGE BuS
    I think a powerful psyker would be able to control the hivemind considering they’re all one mind and are not really individuals

  16. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 9:12 am -      #16

    “Personally I’d side with the IoM, for if they were able to board the Borg cube they could shut down the main computer controlling all the borg, correct me if I am wrong but the Space Marines probably have a way to board other sips in space. I’m siding for the Space Marines for now but the Borgs ability to evolve and quick learning might give the Space Marines a little trouble, but I think the Space Marines will take this victory.”

    The Problem is the Borg almost definitely have greater numbers than the IoM. If a Cube is compromised like that, and they suffer repeated losses, they aren’t afraid to sacrifice a ship for the greater cause and blow it up. However, the Borg can be out muscled, which the IoM has the capability to do, but I don’t know if they can do it enough. Ordinarily the Borg only send one cube to do their dirty business, which I think the IoM could deal with if they were careful about what they do. Although I’ve heard the Voyager show fucked with the Borg a lot and had them send entire task forces in the double digits worth of cubes. I imagine that would be a lot harder for the IoM to counter in an engagement unless they had a sizable fleet to counter with already. Unlike the pathetic Federation, the IoM doesn’t seem to like throwing ships alone or in pairs at enemy forces. The only issue I see is they’d have a hard time engaging the Borg where they want, when they want, due to the differences in their FTL. If this advantage wasn’t present I’d of been less likely to make this suggestion due to the conservative nature of Borg tactics.

    “But then again wouldn’t the tyranids have devoured SOME psychic biomass and then might have become more resistant whereas the Borg have no such protection.”

    Psychic, semi-psychic, and empathic races are a dime a dozen in Star Trek, and the Borg almost definitely have assimilated some. Although their connection is through technology, like the Daleks, which I think may render that tactic useless. With how exceedingly common Demi God-like psionic super tech races are in Trek (Hell, they were running in to them like every other episode in TOS), I think it’s safe to say the fact that the Borg haven’t been smooshed like little crunchy metal bugs yet implies they have some resistance, or the sheer force and numbers necessary to counter these kinds of forces.

  17. The_Assassin711 November 29, 2012 at 9:18 am -      #17

    Not sure I want to get in on this one yet but I will reply to this:

    “Then why not do that to the Tyranids?”

    The “Hivemind” is the psychic collective of every Tyranid organism:

    “The Hive Mind
    The Hive Mind holds all Tyranid creatures in a psychic bond that enables them to act together as one gestalt organism. It is a single coordinating sentience formed from untold billions of individual consciousnesses, each of which is a Tyranid. Whilst some individual Tyranids are capable of rational thought, most have no distinct minds as humans and other creatures would understand it. These Tyranids simply fulfill the functions for which they were created, unless the implacable will of the Hive Mind instructs them to do otherwise. Most of the smaller Tyranid creatures are therefore utterly unthinking, having been created to fulfill a single specialized role to the exclusion of all else. Larger and more complicated beasts are able to make limited decisions appropriate to their situation, but even these actions are subordinate to the will and goals of the Hive Mind.” Codex Tyranid pg. 6

    That and the Shadow in the Warp the Tyranids produce:

    “The Shadow in the Warp
    Even before the Tyranid invasion begins, a planet’s inhabitants must contend with the Shadow in the Warp. The coming of a Hive Fleet is preceded by a smothering psychic signal, a powerful beacon of overriding terror. For creatures without a latent psychic ability, this mental miasma manifests as a pervasive dread, instilling a primal malaise that can never be truly expelled. For highly psychic races such as the Eldar or luckless psykers caught within this enervating effect, the horror is magnified tenfold. Should the psyker attempt to use his otherworldly abilities, the cerebral cacophony worsens even further, pitching all but the strongest into incurable insanity where the psyker will repeatedly chant phrases in a tongue too alien to properly pronounce. So does the oncoming presence of the Tyranids plunge whole worlds into madness and despair.” Codex Tyranids pg. 7

    As far as psychic beings in 40k go the Hive Mind is practically one of the gods; even the Imperium’s most powerful psykers (the Emperor aside, dunno about him) are driven insane before they accomplish anything.

  18. PwNaGE TraiN November 29, 2012 at 9:22 am -      #18

    @Sauroposeidon
    I was unaware that there was more than one cube, I will have to keep that in mind. And I completely agree with you that the numbers of the Borg far outnumber the IoM, I just think that the advanced weapons and training for the IoM might give them an edge over the mindless hive controlled drones even with their ability to adapt to the Space Marines capabilities. Although you are right the Borg have a huge advantage in numbers, considering I was unaware of that there are many cubes, all the cubes the borg own are part of the Borg army. And since this battle is all out all Borgs vs. all IoM people and Space Marines, It will be hard for the IoM to consistently take out many cubes. But then again like I said before they are space marines, which are battle hardened trained super soliders, and with the help of strong pyskers I still think that the IoM has a advantage here.

  19. Runeblue November 29, 2012 at 9:27 am -      #19

    @Sauroposiedon
    I’m not that knowledgeable about Star Trek so could you please list some psychic races comparable to the most powerful psykers of the imperium that the Borg would have assimilated or a psychic race with sufficient motivation to destroy the Borg that could contend with the WH40k psykers

  20. GuardianAngel1911 with Mjolnir and the Odinsword November 29, 2012 at 9:51 am -      #20

    There’s one easy way to decide if the Borg can adapt to defeat the IoM, do the IoM like the Daleks who defeated the Borg in the past, have the ability to generate too much damage and power for the Borg to adapt to? If they can the Borg will be decimated early on. If not they get assimilated.

  21. Runeblue November 29, 2012 at 9:55 am -      #21

    But then again, how do you go about adapting to having a psyker crush vital parts of the Borg

  22. Murder November 29, 2012 at 10:12 am -      #22

    i kniw that every borg has a personal shield that will protect them from psykers and adapt quickly to lasrifles. Without modulating weapons and a fear of fycking with the standard templates the borg will have a hyge early advantage againt imperial naval forces by overrunning and assimilating imperial sjips and personal. The astartes are really the imperials only hope and with an almost endless supply if regular humans to replace the borg numbers it may be a battle of attrition favoring the borg.

  23. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 10:31 am -      #23

    “I was unaware that there was more than one cube, I will have to keep that in mind. And I completely agree with you that the numbers of the Borg far outnumber the IoM, I just think that the advanced weapons and training for the IoM might give them an edge over the mindless hive controlled drones even with their ability to adapt to the Space Marines capabilities. ”

    Honestly I think once the Space Marines pull out their heavy weapons, a good level of spammage could put down even shielded borg drones. The Borg don’t employ modern tactics in combat like the IoM does with its soldiers, because it actually benefits from the initial high loss rate from the old combat strategies used by revolutionary war era generals. There’s always the chance the Borg could begin using more advanced tactics, but it seems unlikely, resulting in large losses of drones to heavy weapon spammage and melee combat comparatively to the eventual defeat of the Space Marines. However, again, they make up such a small portion of the IoM population that I think the Imperial Guard, and all of their fantastic vehicles will have more success against drones.

    “I’m not that knowledgeable about Star Trek so could you please list some psychic races comparable to the most powerful psykers of the imperium that the Borg would have assimilated or a psychic race with sufficient motivation to destroy the Borg that could contend with the WH40k psykers”

    The most powerful psionic races in Trek do things like wipe out solar systems with a thought, or the Q might qualify, which claim they can do pretty much anything. I strongly believe the Borg have not had to fight anything that can wipe out entire fleets with just a thought. Deltans and Betazoids are powerfully empathic, and Betazoids are able to get reads off of people on other ships light years away with little difficulty. Vulcans too are empathic and have some subconscious psychic abilities. Such as Spock, who had psychic contact with V-GER which was days away from Earth with FTL travel while he was on Vulcan. Charlie X is another good example of ridiculously powerful psionics. Then there’s the race who’s name escapes me featured in Arena. They sit between Federation and Gorn space. The list goes on and on. There’s really no telling how many psychic races the Borg have encountered, but Kirk’s enterprise alone ran in to SO MANY powerful psionic races that it seems unlikely to me that the Borg’s quarter of the galaxy is not as heavily populated (or was).

    “There’s one easy way to decide if the Borg can adapt to defeat the IoM, do the IoM like the Daleks who defeated the Borg in the past, have the ability to generate too much damage and power for the Borg to adapt to? If they can the Borg will be decimated early on. If not they get assimilated.”

    I can’t recall exactly, but I believe the larger ships could go toe to toe with a Borg Cube. Smaller vessels would show up and get pummeled like that one season finale of TNG when the Borg sent a Cube at Earth. The larger ships would have to act fast, though. The Borg offensive abilities don’t seem that much higher than the rest of the usual factions in trek but they can spam it with impunity. Federation ships seem to have endurance issues with extended combat, running out of power quickly after too many attacks or taking too many hits. The Borg have never shown this, and couple their attacks with shield draining tractor beams. The IoM has anti-planet weaponry at it’s disposal as well which could tear apart a Cube like tissue paper.

  24. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 10:37 am -      #24

    The borg have 20% of the known galaxy in trek. Also, they can adapt to most of the weapons in WH40K, and I don’t believe the IOM have

  25. The Expert November 29, 2012 at 10:50 am -      #25

    am i the only here that knows completely nothing about star trek accept that they have colorful uniforms

  26. Runeblue November 29, 2012 at 10:50 am -      #26

    @Murder
    Please show your source

  27. PrimusxPilus November 29, 2012 at 10:56 am -      #27

    Interesting fight. Do the Borg have any of that “lawl” technology/weapons? I’m not well versed on either faction but I heard trek had some stupid crazy tech? At least I can learn about two more factions

  28. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 11:07 am -      #28

    Sorry, my post got cut off. I was going to say that the IOM don’t have the phase-randomizer tech that Star Trek needed to use to prevent the borg from adapting. Lasguns don’t seem to have that function.

  29. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 11:08 am -      #29

    @ Runeblade

    I’ve not yet seen whether their shields protect them from psionic attacks, although I imagine being part of the hive mind would provide them with decent protection, although not render them immune. This is just due to the nature of how their central nervous system is only part of the whole. Their shields can be seen on Star Trek: First Contact, which is worth a watch, and they do adapt quickly to weapons fire. Most notably, phasers. Although Picard pulls a trick on the holodeck with a tommygun to get past their shields for.. two kills I think it was? I need to go rewatch that movie. He wasn’t firing actual bullets if I recall (and I’d be amazed if they hadn’t already encountered a race still using projectiles), so I’d need somebody more familiar with the scene to explain it for you. However, other weapons, including disruptors and plasma, are used as hand held weaponry by the other factions, and they fare about as well as the Federation does whenever they encounter the Borg if I recall.

  30. PwNaGE TraiN November 29, 2012 at 11:18 am -      #30

    Another factor to consider are the Inquisitors in the IoM. The equivalent to the FBI in the real world, these guys have all sorts of wird stuff and equipment at their disposal. This could potentially help them because this could help upload a virus to the borg computers shutting them down. And they are potentially smart enough to understand and work around the borg technology to upload a virus.

  31. Cautiosly Pessimistic November 29, 2012 at 12:32 pm -      #31

    I think Sauroposeidon made a good point about solid projectile weapons. The IOM uses so many devastating solid round weapons there’s only so much you can do to adapt to that (armour).

    How strong is the borg’s tractor beam? Could it stop a ship moving at near light speed thats a few kilometres long and has a battering ram on it’s face?

    How big are the Borg cubes? I remember them being much bigger than the Enterprise in STtNG but I think the cubes would be teensy compared to IOM’s capitol ships.

    The Adeptus Mechanicus have the ability to reprogram/shutdown/command machines remotely by speaking quick shrieks of binary with their machine voices. However I think that some Techpriests may have a hard time destroying the Borg for religious reasons. Also the Borg drones look pretty wimpy compared to Imperial servitors who have pieces of equipment strong enough to pull a space marine apart.

    The IOM also has world ending bio viruses (the Life-eater virus). In the Horus Heresy novels the Life-Eater virus kills all life on a planet down to the cellular level. The Borg ships clearly have breathable air as we see Star Trek boarding parties on them without space suits. The Virus would wipe out all organic matter on a borg cube, then starve itself out.

  32. MrTBSC November 29, 2012 at 12:35 pm -      #32

    it´s hart to tell how powerfull 40k weapons are against borg ships … even if they do significant damage … the borgs ability to adapt is a bitch … so they could destroy a couple of ships but the rest would eventualy adapt and be immun to the weapons … the worst thing that could happen is if the borg were able to assimilate astartes bodys aswell as their armors they could make nigh invincible borgmarines with their shielding … borg may advance rather slow but constantly …
    how much use a virus would be is quetionable … in voyager a futureversion of janeway was required to know how to propperly plant the virus to the borgqueen …
    i don´t know how effective psykers would be or if they can withstand assimilation …
    if the battle starts on the edge of IOM territory the borg may already be advanced enough to be a serious thread
    and iirc it can take a good while for the imperial ships to get somewere in time

  33. itcheyness November 29, 2012 at 12:39 pm -      #33

    “Could it stop a ship moving at near light speed thats a few kilometres long and has a battering ram on it’s face?”

    Sorry, what IoM ship travels at near light speed?

  34. MrTBSC November 29, 2012 at 12:39 pm -      #34

    “The Virus would wipe out all organic matter on a borg cube, then starve itself out.”
    intresting … that could work well if it gets through

  35. Gordo1248 November 29, 2012 at 12:58 pm -      #35

    I think the IoM first encounters with the Borg would be somewhat one sided with IoM firepower and manpower having them at a major advantage, but as time goes on I think the Borg would eventually take victory for a couple reasons.

    1) The Borg ability to adapt and change tactics compare to IoM stale / predictable tactics and unwillingness to except change.
    2) Borg ability assimilate could potentially unlock the secrets to creating space marines, psykers, imperial tech, and other alien races.
    3) Most of IoM tech predates them (Dark Age of Technology) making it shrouded in mystery and guarded by a select few, which shouldn’t be hard for the Borg to decipher.
    4) Borg teleport technology makes them hard to repel and can help them infiltrate and establish colonies similar to what they did to engineering in First Contact (Think of that in a Hive city).

    Overall Borg for the win “Resistance is futile”

  36. Murder November 29, 2012 at 1:02 pm -      #36

    The borg can contain the virus with shields. Any part of a borg ship can be locked down via shields. They could then study the virus, adapt and possibly recreate it.

  37. The One Above All November 29, 2012 at 1:27 pm -      #37

    What would happen if the Borg got their hands on the GEOM?

  38. Murder November 29, 2012 at 1:29 pm -      #38

    They would be turned to ash.

  39. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 1:34 pm -      #39

    Yeah, no way the borg take the emprah, but they win after a long war of attrition.

  40. andrew November 29, 2012 at 1:45 pm -      #40

    what the….seriously?

    the IoM has an enourmous advantage, unless GW have severely nerfed them in the last year or so in fluff.

    in space, they are faster, and can dish out far more firepower then the borg; practically every ship of cruiser class and above packs at least biome destroying weaponry. imperial torpedoes essentially teleport through shielding, which negates borg reactive shielding entirely. imperial broadsides deliver enough dps to crush cubes in very short order, and imperial light ships are numerous enough to severely limit any ability the borg have to shape the battlespace.

    on ground, their weapons are simply too powerful, and their armies too numerous. even if the borg can magically adapt to las weaponry AND give each drone a powersource capable of maintaining the shields against sustained las fire, the bayonet will still mean the borg lose the vast majority of encounters with the PDF or IG.

    and where is it got that the borg outnumber the IoM? have you actually got population figures? the borg would have to have thousands of trillions of drones, which is never even nearly implied in star trek.

    literally the only chance the borg have is if the IoM simply do not notice the borg incursion until the borg have succesfully assimilated a decent amount of its technology; which, to be fair, is actually possible.

    again, unless new fluff from the last year or so contradicts the wealth of backstory i know of, the borg are buggered.

  41. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 1:46 pm -      #41

    “What would happen if the Borg got their hands on the GEOM?”

    I actually wonder. What all is the GEOM capable of right now, being what he is in that chair?

  42. Murder November 29, 2012 at 1:47 pm -      #42

    When you consider how big the emperium is and how cram packed their hive worlds are, The borg could just roam around the galaxy with their brand new warp drive cubes and hit each world with their nano virus bombs. The imperium would witnesss a battle not only against the borg armada but also their own worlds turning borg. The garrisons of most worlds wouldnt stand a chance against the borg. The imperium would soon find itself with too many fronts to fight. Lets not even mention what would happen if the borg encountered the other W40K

  43. Murder November 29, 2012 at 1:48 pm -      #43

    races such as the orks. Imagine borg orks, tau and eldar also joining in on this fight.

  44. andrew November 29, 2012 at 1:51 pm -      #44

    *qualifier-they are faster at an intragalactic scale i.e. they can get from system to system quicker.

  45. Murder November 29, 2012 at 1:53 pm -      #45

    It wouldnt take the Borg but a few weeks at best to introduce a warp drive and gellar fields to thier ships. They also have time travel capabilities…

  46. The One Above All November 29, 2012 at 1:59 pm -      #46

    It would be fun to see a Space Marine try to take a Borg Cube from the inside.

  47. andrew November 29, 2012 at 2:03 pm -      #47

    …and is necessarily the case because? would they see the need in gellar fields? “souls are irrelevant” after all. they are evil stupid enough that they would probably try conquering the warp ffs. tau do not possess 40k ftl on a useful scale; they skim the warp barely and are very slow by the usual standards. the eldar could happily avoid the borg permanently, and the orks would likely kick the everloving crap out of them.

    that is ignoring the fact that it is “IoM vs Borg”, and the borg attacking other races simply means they have more enemies, with more varied abilities, which bites them in the arse so very hard that no one should think them trying to assimilate other races is a good idea when already at war with the IoM in this scenario.

    they still cannot deal with the firepower involved. hell they have superior tech to the federation, and have adapted their defenses to combat them, and the federation can still handily destroy a borg cube wish a few dozen ships as of first contact. the firepower federation starships dish out is orders of magnitude less than IoM equivalents. the enterprise-e is the closest thing starfleet has to a battleship class, and it puts out about the firepower of an IoM destroyer or corvette.

  48. ReDruM November 29, 2012 at 2:06 pm -      #48

    Just had a thought. In the movie First Contact Picard lead a group of Borg to one of the holodecks, picked a 30s gangster setting, then killed them with a Chicago Typewriter. When he gunned them down the shields didn’t flare which leads me to believe they were designed to deflect energy based attacks. Also when Worf(the Klingon not sure if I’m spelling his name right) attacked them with melee attacks they were unable to defend themselves. Do the shields deflect bullets and melee attacks or was that a PIS moment? If not perhaps the IGs large arsenal of bolters and melee weapons might turn the tables. I’m not really into Star Trek I just saw First Contact with my father years ago.

  49. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 2:06 pm -      #49

    the IoM has an enourmous advantage, unless GW have severely nerfed them in the last year or so in fluff.
    in space, they are faster, and can dish out far more firepower then the borg; practically every ship of cruiser class and above packs at least biome destroying weaponry. imperial torpedoes essentially teleport through shielding, which negates borg reactive shielding entirely. imperial broadsides deliver enough dps to crush cubes in very short order, and imperial light ships are numerous enough to severely limit any ability the borg have to shape the battlespace.
    on ground, their weapons are simply too powerful, and their armies too numerous. even if the borg can magically adapt to las weaponry AND give each drone a powersource capable of maintaining the shields against sustained las fire, the bayonet will still mean the borg lose the vast majority of encounters with the PDF or IG.
    and where is it got that the borg outnumber the IoM? have you actually got population figures? the borg would have to have thousands of trillions of drones, which is never even nearly implied in star trek.
    literally the only chance the borg have is if the IoM simply do not notice the borg incursion until the borg have succesfully assimilated a decent amount of its technology; which, to be fair, is actually possible.
    again, unless new fluff from the last year or so contradicts the wealth of backstory i know of, the borg are buggered.


    Really, I thought the IOM was slow ass in the warp, with the chance of losing ships to chaos, getting lost, coming out of the warp at unpredictable times…

    The Borg use a nanovirus to assimilate organics. If they get their hands on an SM, they could be churning out SM powered infectious adapting borg warriors easily.

    Any attack used against the borg can be relied on only a few times, then they adapt to that method of attack. The federation fixed this by varying the frequency of their weapons. Can’t do that with bolters.

    If the borg start with 1 cube, yeah they get raped, but the collective at its height was massive. The only way the IOM could defeat them really is through the center of the Hivemind.

  50. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 2:08 pm -      #50

    @ReDrum
    You can kill 1 or 2 before adapting takes place ususally.

  51. Gluttonous-Behemoth November 29, 2012 at 2:09 pm -      #51

    @Murder
    Time Travel might be worse for them, as they may inadverdently go to a time and meet Great Crusade Imperium with Twenty Primarchs and Legions that number in tens of thousands or hundereds of thousands of Astartes. The Word Bearers alone possessed a full one hundred thousand by the time they turned to chaos. Or even worse, they might meet up with an up on his feet Emperor, and then they would be unequivocally fucked.

    What I see as the IoM’s major disadvantage is their response times; removing CIS, they’d be faster, but they have an immense territory to defend, and many of its planets are Feudal or otherwise mal-adapted worlds that would have a hard time defending themselves. Forge Worlds would have Skitarii legions and Titans so they would fare better, and places like Cadia or Krieg would do well, but it would be hard to respond unless the Borg all mass up and stay in one group. Terra for all intents and purposes is unassailable.

  52. Kilo Actual November 29, 2012 at 2:11 pm -      #52

    In regards to the speed in the Warp thing,the IoM isn’t fighting anyone but the Borg in this scenario so the Gods of Chaos MAY not be present.IIRC them not being present would speed up Imperial warp travel immensely.

    I DO however want to see the Borg try to take on an Emperor Battle Titan,Imperator Class.

  53. ReDruM November 29, 2012 at 2:12 pm -      #53

    “You can kill 1 or 2 before adapting takes place ususally.”

    He killed 4 or 5 though. Besides that it doesn’t explain the shields vs melee attacks which they never seemed to adapt to. For example that episode of Star Trek Enterprise when the Borg asked for help from Picard to stop this Alien Species from killing them all who had melee attacks that melted their flesh and metal. The thing was slaughtering them consistently.

  54. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 2:13 pm -      #54

    “they still cannot deal with the firepower involved. hell they have superior tech to the federation, and have adapted their defenses to combat them, and the federation can still handily destroy a borg cube wish a few dozen ships as of first contact. the firepower federation starships dish out is orders of magnitude less than IoM equivalents. the enterprise-e is the closest thing starfleet has to a battleship class, and it puts out about the firepower of an IoM destroyer or corvette.”

    This was specifically because Picard knew exactly how to dismantle the cube. Trying to out muscle it is impossible for the Federation. Think of like Smaug from the Hobbit. Had the black arrow not struck the one weak point, Smaug would have killed everyone. Picard knew the weak point on that cube. This is exactly why I said if the Borg do as they did with Picard, try to make a Locutus, it’s a double edged sword. While their IoM Locutus equivalent would give them an incredible edge, if he were to somehow be liberated he’d give the IoM the know how on anti-borg tactics.. and then I don’t think the Borg could recover from a blow like that quickly enough to make a difference.

  55. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 2:14 pm -      #55

    Also, Earth is very near the galactic edge, relatively speaking, so I assumed the Borg would be encroaching on that edge of Imperium Territory. This was to give them as little interference (and the Borg as little tech to pirate from other factions) as possible.

  56. Gluttonous-Behemoth November 29, 2012 at 2:18 pm -      #56

    @Sauro
    Thus, I think that is where Psykers come into play. If they can at least find him, the Psyker could enter his thoughts and find information. Or, even more simply, if a Space Marine encounters this Locutus and he has a functioning Omophagea, he can kill the guy and consume his brain, which while imperfect as a process, would almost certainly garner info.

    Speaking of your Black arrows and Hobbit analogy I assume you plan on seeing the upcoming Film?

  57. andrew November 29, 2012 at 2:19 pm -      #57

    “Really, I thought the IOM was slow ass in the warp, with the chance of losing ships to chaos, getting lost, coming out of the warp at unpredictable times…”

    as a rule they are slower than say chaos or the eldar. they still get from one side of a galaxy to the other faster than any standard propulsion method in star trek-sometimes they get there before they actually depart.

    “The Borg use a nanovirus to assimilate organics. If they get their hands on an SM, they could be churning out SM powered infectious adapting borg warriors easily.”

    getting their hands on one is the part where the plan fails.

    “Any attack used against the borg can be relied on only a few times, then they adapt to that method of attack. The federation fixed this by varying the frequency of their weapons. Can’t do that with bolters.”

    what do you think they are? kurosaki ichigo or something? “hurrdurr ive seen that attack therefor i am immune to it”….seriously? no. that isnt even how it works in star trek. theyve seen and adapted to federation weapons, and they still get pwned by enough firepower in first contact.

    “If the borg start with 1 cube, yeah they get raped, but the collective at its height was massive. The only way the IOM could defeat them really is through the center of the Hivemind.”

    no, it really isnt. the gods of superior firepower are firmly on the side of the imperium here. once the IoM got into the fight properly, they *could* use psykers on the hive mind to asplode the borgs collective heads. they could also just kill there way through the entire collective. would take longer. decreased chance of people failing their “perils of the warp” checks.

  58. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 2:19 pm -      #58

    “Besides that it doesn’t explain the shields vs melee attacks which they never seemed to adapt to. For example that episode of Star Trek Enterprise when the Borg asked for help from Picard to stop this Alien Species from killing them all who had melee attacks that melted their flesh and metal. The thing was slaughtering them consistently.”

    I think Shielding against melee is a myth. I don’t know why. There may be an energy yield requirement to activate the shields. They engage in melee to infect others, if I recall, so anti-melee shields would be detrimental to their combat tactics.

  59. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 2:20 pm -      #59

    @ReDruM
    Hmm…He only killed 2 in the holodeck if I remember correctly. Anyway, I never really watched voyager, but I think the Undine (Species 8472) were a biological equivalent to the borg or some such nonsense

  60. PrimusxPilus November 29, 2012 at 2:22 pm -      #60

    @GB
    Merged timeline. Factpile rules dictate the furthest back would be the start of the match

  61. PwNaGE TraiN November 29, 2012 at 2:24 pm -      #61

    This might not work, but the super titans of the IoM that are like as tall as a sky scraper and are super powerful, like able to take out cities easily would be very helpful in this fight to the imperium except for their humongous size. I don’t really know whether they could fit on the ship, for this is a space battle and I don’t know if the titans could be any help, but they would prove a challenge for the borg if they could figure out a away for them to be able to attack the ships in space.

  62. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 2:24 pm -      #62

    “as a rule they are slower than say chaos or the eldar. they still get from one side of a galaxy to the other faster than any standard propulsion method in star trek-sometimes they get there before they actually depart.”

    The Borg seem to be able to go where ever they want very quickly. They come from a whole other quarter of the galaxy and have sent a single cube at Earth twice now. They immediately caught up to the Enterprise with no issue when they wanted to chase it.

    “Speaking of your Black arrows and Hobbit analogy I assume you plan on seeing the upcoming Film?”

    Of course I do.

    “getting their hands on one is the part where the plan fails.”

    I believe most if not all of the SM’s will just end up getting vaporized in combat. The only chance the Borg have of catching one is if they capture a ship which has some SM’s on it.

    “no, it really isnt. the gods of superior firepower are firmly on the side of the imperium here. once the IoM got into the fight properly, they *could* use psykers on the hive mind to asplode the borgs collective heads. they could also just kill there way through the entire collective. would take longer. decreased chance of people failing their “perils of the warp” checks.”

    You realize you’re vastly under estimating the Borg because Picard knew the one place to punch a Cube when the Federation had been pelting away at it with little more effect than the Japanese Self Defense Force against Godzilla, right?

  63. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 2:24 pm -      #63

    Getting into melee range was dangerous as well, remember that the borg can introduce the nanovirus through cqc attacks too. I’m trying to find out how else the borg assimilated though.

  64. Sauroposeidon November 29, 2012 at 2:26 pm -      #64

    “Merged timeline. Factpile rules dictate the furthest back would be the start of the match”

    The scenario clearly puts this in the Warhammer Universe.

  65. andrew November 29, 2012 at 2:26 pm -      #65

    “This was specifically because Picard knew exactly how to dismantle the cube. Trying to out muscle it is impossible for the Federation. Think of like Smaug from the Hobbit. Had the black arrow not struck the one weak point, Smaug would have killed everyone. Picard knew the weak point on that cube. This is exactly why I said if the Borg do as they did with Picard, try to make a Locutus, it’s a double edged sword. While their IoM Locutus equivalent would give them an incredible edge, if he were to somehow be liberated he’d give the IoM the know how on anti-borg tactics.. and then I don’t think the Borg could recover from a blow like that quickly enough to make a difference.”

    the cube had already suffered extensive damage by that point, and if visuals are anything to go by their shields had already failed. the federation were going to win that fight either way, picard just made it easier on them.

  66. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 2:29 pm -      #66

    Species 8472 is tripedal, around three meters tall, extremely muscular, and biologically unique. Their DNA is arranged in a triple helix formation, and is the most densely coded DNA ever encountered by Starfleet. They are known to have as many as five sexes. The species’ immune system is able to destroy anything which penetrates their body systems: chemical, biological, or technological. They are impervious to normal Borg assimilation methods. Their immune system can even be used as a means of attack. If cornered they attack with their claws rather than with any other type of weapon allowing Species 8472’s cells to come into contact with a victim’s where they will infect every system and consume it from the inside out. In addition, if threatened, Species 8472 are able to commit suicide by releasing a cellular toxin into their bloodstreams. They emit a biogenic field around their bodies; this field renders them nearly invisible to sensors, making it impossible to pinpoint their exact location. This field also interferes with normal transporters. Exactly how this biogenic field is produced is unknown.

    These are the only race to reliably destroy the borg.

  67. Murder November 29, 2012 at 2:33 pm -      #67

    @redrum, Picard didnt kill the borg he stunned them with a photonic projection of a bullet. He even says “I doubt even photonic weapon would be enough to kill them”. But they are very vulnerable to melee. They are however much stronger than a fit human even capturing Data who can lift steel girders without much effort. I dont see them directly engaging ground forces but ibstead releasing nano virus torpedoes over ever imperial world they encounter which would turn the entire population of billions within weeks. Every would will be fighting their own battles and most losing which result in more borg worlds building more borg ships. Also for the sake of a good match I think time travel should be left out otherwise the borg could just go back to the 20th century and take over Earth before the Imperium.
    —-
    @andrew, the borg would aquire all information from anything they assimilate which includes astropaths, navigators, princepts, and government officials. They would know all they need to know to travel safely through the warp. They also do not need to defeat the orks to inject them with the nano virus turning millions of orks into drones. The Eldar cannot just evade the borg as we saw in the path of series about the Eldar. Craftworlds are very vulnerable to borg aggression and with their tech would be a key target. I imagine the borg, after a few decades, having billions of human and ork drones with tau and eldar technology.

    also i think it impossible for the borg virus to take over an astartes but they will dwindle out having to face a never ending wave of drones.

  68. ReDruM November 29, 2012 at 2:35 pm -      #68

    “Hmm…He only killed 2 in the holodeck if I remember correctly. Anyway, I never really watched voyager, but I think the Undine (Species 8472) were a biological equivalent to the borg or some such nonsense”

    You’re right he only killed 2. But remember bullets don’t have frequencies. Phasers have them. If I remember correctly the Borg were never able to adapt their shielding to CQC attacks. Their shields weren’t designed for that they were designed against energy based attacks. And even if Species 8472, thank you I forgot the name its been years, was similar to the Borg that doesn’t explain that after it slaughtered double digits of them that they couldn’t find a way to stop the thing which further leads me to believe the shield can’t stop everything. And there is still Worf who killed multiple Drones with that blade he always carries.

    “Getting into melee range was dangerous as well, remember that the borg can introduce the nanovirus through cqc attacks too. I’m trying to find out how else the borg assimilated though.”

    Well the benefit the IOM has over the Borg is that they have Swords, Axes, and such that give range benefits over the claws that the Drones typically have attached to their arms. Granted I’ve never read a Star Trek book before so if they do in fact use swords and such I apologize. Not to mention that the IOM have units in full body armor like the Cadian Shock Troopers as well as the Officio Assinorum. The Eversors come to mind almost immediately if it comes to boarding action.

  69. PrimusxPilus November 29, 2012 at 2:36 pm -      #69

    Thank you sauro

    Questions: even though this is 40k verse are the other factions not present? How reliable is the Borg time travel? How many uses do they get?

  70. Gluttonous-Behemoth November 29, 2012 at 2:37 pm -      #70

    I don’t suppose a Callidus Assassin could infiltrate a Cube and find said weak points as well? Or does the whole Hive Minded race thing put a hole in that?

    The Borg might take a time Travel to the Dark Age of Technology, which has been theorized to have been even more advanced than the Imperium. Who knows what would happen there.

    If the Borg start out by attacking near Terra, the moment a hostile alien race is spotted near Holy old Earth and word gets out, whole Crusades’ worth of reinforcements will come howling in from the rest of the Imperium. And Terra itself is possibly the single most guarded spot in the universe. The chances of the Borg breaking through before Battlefleets from every sector arrive, frothing with rage, are tiny.

    @Sauro
    Mm, I have high hopes for it, but more than a few concerns.

  71. Murder November 29, 2012 at 2:44 pm -      #71

    Also the borg are much, much faster than the Imperium outside the warp. The borg ships would get slaughtered during their first few space battles against the borg, but unlike the imperium the borg are fast to adapt and would simple realspace ftl away from imperial ships and take over worlds as they build their numbers and new ships to confront imperial naval forces. Imperial ships need to be outside of a star system to safely translate to the warp but borg ships can pop up anywhere at anytime. That’s pretty tough for the imperium to match since it can take upwards of a week from exiting the warp to reaching the center of a star system through normal space.

  72. Gluttonous-Behemoth November 29, 2012 at 2:46 pm -      #72

    Or, in another happy thought, the Borg go back to the War in Heaven and get their backsides forcibly imploded.

  73. Wolfangel November 29, 2012 at 2:54 pm -      #73

    Ok….

    1) Who keeps on puting up all these Vs 40k sergestions

    2) i do think that the borg can not adapt to baneblades running over them basilisk shells ripping them to shreds or being pulverised by the thumb of a grey knight in close combat

    3) “The Borg may not use Time Travel more than the number of times they have been shown to do such in Trek” how many times have the borg used time travel in the tv series

    4) Creed may i say more

    one thing though
    guardsmen are at great risk of being simmilated

    i am leaning towards IoM but i am open to ideas about how the borg may overcome IoM but i shal wait and see

  74. ReDruM November 29, 2012 at 3:03 pm -      #74

    “, Picard didnt kill the borg he stunned them with a photonic projection of a bullet. He even says “I doubt even photonic weapon would be enough to kill them”. But they are very vulnerable to melee. They are however much stronger than a fit human even capturing Data who can lift steel girders without much effort. I dont see them directly engaging ground forces but ibstead releasing nano virus torpedoes over ever imperial world they encounter which would turn the entire population of billions within weeks. Every would will be fighting their own battles and most losing which result in more borg worlds building more borg ships. Also for the sake of a good match I think time travel should be left out otherwise the borg could just go back to the 20th century and take over Earth before the Imperium.”

    1. Didn’t know that. I thought he set the hologram into kill mode. I’m still dubious on whether or not that matters though since if a holographic version of .45 caliber bullets was enough to knock them out what would a real bolter do? Especially since with bolters its the impact and an explosion with shrapnel flying everywhere.

    2. Strength is good. Chainswords and power swords are better. Especially when based off the TV show and Movies the Borg aren’t what I’d consider CQC masters. They have blades attached to their arms and they just swing. Meanwhile the IG, even if they are technically inferior to everyone else, at least have technique due to some form of basic training.

    3. I figured they’d have a mass delivery system for the infection. It wouldn’t make sense not to. But could the IOM counter with exterminates or taking the planet back with a squad or 2 of space marines?

  75. Murder November 29, 2012 at 3:04 pm -      #75

    @wolf, I’ll keep reposting this: the borg will not engage in ground combat directly. They will deploy nano viruses in the atmosphere that will take over the bodies of any organic humanoid that encounters it. Banblades and even titan crews are not completly sheltered against virus as we saw in the horus heresy that the titans had to engage their atmospheric protective systems to keep out the flesh eater virus. They would have no clue that they’ve been infected by the borg virus until it’s too late. Entire populations would turn borg overnight who would then go about transforming their world into a borg worlds. Those worlds would go on to build more cubes and spread to more worlds.

  76. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 3:08 pm -      #76

    In EU, the Borg nano probes could be released in sentient clouds that would infect their enemies. In the movies we only see the blades/nanotubes. Are we using EU?

  77. The One Above All November 29, 2012 at 3:12 pm -      #77

    @Praetor Prefect
    Is the EU canon? I heard it had a lot of wank in it and made the Star Wars EU seem consistent.

  78. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 3:16 pm -      #78

    I’m not sure, I’m more of a Star Wars fan anyway \_/(0-0)\_/

  79. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 3:17 pm -      #79

    Emoticon fail

  80. The One Above All November 29, 2012 at 3:19 pm -      #80

    Yeah I think the Star Wars Universe is far more entertaining then Star Trek (even though I find Star Trek fun at times).

  81. ZomBighorn Sheep November 29, 2012 at 3:20 pm -      #81

    “Is the EU canon? I heard it had a lot of wank in it and made the Star Wars EU seem consistent.”

    Star Wars EU IS CANON. Star Trek EU IS NOT CANON.

  82. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 3:25 pm -      #82

    @ZomB
    Thanks, I wasn’t sure.

  83. Murder November 29, 2012 at 3:28 pm -      #83

    ST never had a solid canon. It’s always included the movies and shows but not the books and even the shows and movies are open to interpetation. And now it’s been retconed…

    So how does the imperium stop the borg from viral bombing imperial worlds and spreading across the universe?

  84. Aelfinn November 29, 2012 at 3:30 pm -      #84

    “*qualifier-they are faster at an intragalactic scale i.e. they can get from system to system quicker.”

    Nah, I’m pretty sure IoM is slower in and out of FTL. Which will probably be their downfall. The hive worlds and industrial centers without any protection will fall easily, giving the Borg trillions(?) of new drones, while the IoM simply goes on completely ignorant. The inefficiencies that cause them to lose track of planets on a regular basis will bite them in the ass. Any response that manages to make it to the IoM will result in a fleet arriving after the entire world has been assimilated.

    Also, Borg time travel means that every easily-assimilatable planet gets assimilated 1 month after the start of the match, simultaneously.

    I have to check, but I’m pretty sure that I’ve heard that 40k weapons have kiloton firepower from an official codex. If true, the IoM is fucked.

  85. andrew November 29, 2012 at 3:42 pm -      #85

    ….because the imperium has no experience with infiltrators viruses that can subvert whole populations in days does it? No, not at all *rolleyes*

  86. Murder November 29, 2012 at 3:51 pm -      #86

    … no, they dont.

  87. Wolfangel November 29, 2012 at 4:02 pm -      #87

    (Quote from 40k vs star trek)

    “40k, without a doubt.
    the reasons? scale and philosophy.
    using the imperium as an example; the latter is easy to explain. imperial philosophy dictates complete prosecution against a foe in truly total terms untill the foe is defeated; if it cant win on the ground, and it cant win with its fleets, all it needs is a few hours to make whatever its fighting over a barren rock, completely bereft of economic or strategic use for all of eternity. nothing within star trek cannon has anything resembling the resolve to approach this level of total warfare, and thus it would lose before the opening shot.
    in the case of the former; one segmentum of the imperium of man, obscurus for example, is larger than the size of all known space as shown in tng era canon. said segmentum controls untold thousands of capital level warships which dwarf anything i know of the the star trek canon by an order of magnitude. segmentum ground forces (imperial guard and planetary defence forces) are so inpconprehensably vast that not even the imperium is able to guess at just how powerful its military is.
    the weakest ships of the imperiums navy used in actual fleet engagements, cobra class destroyers, outgun sovereign class ships heavily and the cobra’s gellar field, the forcefield equivalent, can sustain bombardment from ships of about equal power with a reasonable chance of survival. the would probably, though im not entirely sure, be able to outrange federations ships, which means they can dictate range. the majority of a star-trek starships power comes from the various directed energy weapons, afaik non of them can be used at warp speeds, which severely hampers a starships ability to use tactical warps to its advantage.
    imperial battalions (the smallest self contained and self-supporting units) number in the thousands in terms of line troopers, not including support. application of mass, as well as the fact that the lasgun (standard imperial weaponry as well as the basic field weapon, literally the weakest used by front line units) is a true directed energy weapon, and therefor problematic for ST defences, dictates that imperial forces would win any and every ground engagement.
    in terms of overall strategic manueverability…im not sure in truth. warp travel is faster than sublight travel by default, and is (pretty) safe, which nominally gives ST races an advantage in speed. it is also exceptionally slow compared to imperial FTL travel. assuming the warp is calm an imperial battlefleet could cross the entire alpha quadrant in a matter of a day or so, where it takes months for a federation starship to do the same. afaik only borg transwarp can even approach this level of speed.
    in technological terms, no race in star trek has a chance outside of ftl travel. their defences are, by an indeterminate number of orders of magnitude weaker than they would need to be to survive the opening salvo of an imperial warship, whilst, with the acception of 8472 of the canon races, their ability to provide massed firepower again pales in comparison. the entire federation fleet (some thousands of ships i think by the dominion wars?) could unload all of its weaponry continuously against an imperial ship of heavy cruiser class or greater untill their warp drives were exhausted, their capacitors cracked from age, and every torpedo in the alpha quadrant expended, and the imperial warship would then still be able to wipe them all out in a matter of hours; keep in mind the largest starships outside of borg cubes in star trek-romulan warbirds and sovereign class ships are perhaps the size of an imperial corvette.
    in terms of industrial base of potential energy output, again, the ST races literally have a snow balls chance in hell. single forgeworlds in 40k are able to produce enough military equipment to maintain whole imperial armies, which number in the millions of line troopers, with tens of thousands of support vehicles, artillery support and air support, not to mention titans…which are preposterous in scope. a single forge world such as armageddon could literally outproduce the entirety of the star trek galaxy without going into some extreme level of output, using just its standard trade links to maintain said production.
    furthermore; we have the sheer scale of difference in terms of endurance. the federation, klingons, romulans etc…are able to prosecute wars for years at a time, with losses of hundreds or thousands of their ships representing near crippling losses, and these factions are exhausted utterly by the end of these wars. the imperial war machine is able to fight on all fronts at all times, simultaneasouly fighting defensive wars alongside succesful wars of conquest, using only a fraction of its full potential military power (once again, the imperium is so monolithically powerful it doesnt even know just how much military power it has) and has done for over 10,000 years. it is nowhere near exhaustion, and far from catastrophic defeat. the imperium can lose military forces that would leave the federation irreversably depopulated without even noticing, let alone flinching.
    after all this we have the fact that the imperium is slowly losing its eternal war against the other powers of the 40k galaxy, and it is nevertheless so powerful that a fraction of its raw power (not including gods, trans-dimensional beings or 1-letter superbeings) is more than equal to everything the ST canon could throw at it in any pitched battle.
    i honestly dont even get how there can be serious arguments on this matter. as powerful the star trek factions are, and as cool as i think they are, the imperium alone is so much more powerful that it is not a matter of how many weeks the ST canon races could last in war with the federation before they cease to exist in political terms, its a question of how many hours they could do so. games workshop have literally invented something which is impossible for any other universe to deal with.”

    i am starting to like bringing in quotes that are on the same basis I.E st vs 40k debate was basically this at times.

    As for time travel I have only seen st time travel ONCE and that was one diamond borg ship i think that it would apply to ONE ship of the same size

    also noone has mentioned servetors or the admech. servetors have a low chance of being similated because they are basically flesh with lots o bionics behind the skin. and the admech could study nano probes and find their weakness witch is a type of radiation

    but i want to see a borg with a chainsword in its chest or a power fist up its asshole

    “Sergey March 19, 2010 at 7:30 pm – #96
    The Trektards are hilarious! Borg adapting to Hellfire missiles or Lances? They can’t fully adapt to frequency weapons that fire giga to terawatts! W40k weapons that use *cough*brute force*cough* would DESTROY Borg Cubes without a scratch! Fact is fact.
    24 megaton torpedoes <<<<<< 610 gigaton missile." quote from 40k vs st witch was basically this

    "Nattuo March 26, 2010 at 2:38 pm – #100
    Splat! Would be an excercise in understatement on the scale of calling an atomic bomb going off “A little bit noisy, and hot.”
    The higher range for 40K firepower reaches into the double digit teratons a salvo. Ten thousand times the higher ranges of Trek(which loiters in the single digit gigatons as a high end).
    The mid range work out to be double digit gigatons against double digit megatons(in 40K’s favour again).
    The lower range works out to be sub kiloton for Trek, and 30 megatons per second for 40K.
    I think. Not terribly familiar with the firepower ranges for 40K, but those are the common ‘high’ ‘middle’ and ‘low’ numbers I’ve seen bandied about."

    guess where that came from st vs 40k

    "Yamato-kun March 27, 2010 at 7:50 pm – #102
    HA how can this even be called a fight?!?! The IOM ALONE would roflstomp. The IOM way outnumbers all major ST empires/republics combined. Not to mention ST ships going against a retribution class capital ship would be like salmon attempting to attack a grizzly bear. I would LOVE to see what would happen to a borg cube hit by a 22 PETAton nova cannon shot."

    you know what that would be from

    "andrew May 12, 2010 at 4:51 pm – #122
    stephan;
    1) there is a size comparison between sovereigns and cobra’s, the sovereign comes in at about 2/3rds the length of the cobra. cobra’s dish out high end megaton damage as a minimum as memory serves. sovereigns considerably less. i, unfortunately, cannot find the relevant picture.
    2) its pretty standard in any navy, especially in any fictional universes naval assets, that a ship of a given class will be capable of equalling a ship of the same class in an engagement. RL examples would be the bismark or tirpitz battleships from the german navy in WW2. fitted with battleship killing guns (15″ main batteries) and able to sustain a certain amount of damage from similar caliber (the bismark was eventually reduced to a hulk after extended bombardment by 14 and 16″ guns from the king george 5th and rodney)
    3/4)federation ships are typically portrayed as designed for short range engagements, though they are capable of engagement at range their primary weapons are weak beyond a certain point. the majority of weapons the (for example) federation use are phasers because those are their primary chosen weapon loadout. these weapons are astonishingly weak by wh40k standards.
    5) the lasgun is weak by wh40k standards. it is typically also shown to be able to punch through inch thick ferrocrete, which is a compound of undetermined (though manifestly greater) strength than any remotely comparable material within star trek fiction as far as i know it. it is as far beyond the modern assault rifle as the modern assault rifle is beyond the ancient crossbow…and that is almost certainly an understatement.
    6) on the ground the star trek races have less than no chance. their tech is inferior (phasers and disrupters are inaccurate at spitting distance) and could not possibly advance to a level where theoretical parity emerges within a thousand years, let alone the few hours theyd have between the beginning of the imperial attack and the imperial victory. the imperium, also, as i said in my original post, the product of a society at war (and usually winning those wars) for approximately 10,000 years. their doctrines, tactics, strategic and tactical capabilities, their very mindset, ensure the imperiums total victory in a month at most.
    7) the alpha quadrant is a quarter of the known galaxy, most of it is left pretty vague.
    as to the unanswered matter of scale…i would wager it unanswerable."

    "lord cthulhu June 13, 2010 at 10:40 am – #159
    i will why 40k would win in a nut shell. first the emperor, he would make it so the federation would never make it whith in 500 light years of terra(if they some how magicly destroyed terra defence flee). chaos GODS, self exsplanitory. the necrons have far suppier technolohy to the borg. the imperial navy is made up of million!!! of CAPITAL SHIPS not fighters, CAPITAL ships. psykers are also superweapons, the best of them can blow up planets. superior speed for every 40k race, including the tau.the orks number in the googles. and last but sertinly not least, the whole Philosophy behind 40k is kill the enamy before they kill you, and star trek Philosophy is lets fly around space and spread peace.
    sorry for all mis-spelling’s"

    Need i continue

    also creed will infiltrate battle fleets behind small clouds of space dust

  88. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 4:03 pm -      #88

    @Andrew
    What, Nurgle’s Rot? Not really an Infiltrator virus. Unless I’m mistaken

  89. Murder November 29, 2012 at 4:13 pm -      #89

    @wolf, ST is heavily focused on time travel with thee movies envolving it and they even have temporal police to protect the fragile timeline. Also, quoting other people’s arguments does not constitute as fact.

    @praetor, i think he’s refering to the flesh eater, obliterator or techpathogen none of which are similar to a borg nano virus. The only thing close is necrodermis which was slowly fighting off an ultra marine’s defences taking over his arm in the omnibus. The imperium is terrible at medical care.

  90. andrew November 29, 2012 at 4:28 pm -      #90

    I refer to many different things actually. Another example would be the genestealer plague, which can covertly subvert entire sectors and their militaries within years despite it being a known problem that is proactively dealt with.

    Aelfinn-there is no such thing as an undefended industrial system in 40k. Even feral or fuedal worlds gave monitor ships and the like. The Borg could of course take such worlds. I am nit sure they would be worth the.effort, but they could take them.

  91. Wolfangel November 29, 2012 at 4:33 pm -      #91

    @murder

    Its about 10:30 am in NZ i think for lunch at 12:30 ill have a trekterd pie with potato on top and drowned in 40k fact sause

    i love star trek though but i prefer 40k for grim darkness and just pure flippin the bird at peace

    while prefer trek for unexpedability and peace lovingnedd

  92. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 4:34 pm -      #92

    Well, either way, the Borg could still assimilate the IG. SM’s would be a problem.

  93. Wolfangel November 29, 2012 at 4:34 pm -      #93

    lovingness till the borg/klingons/romulans/feds screw it up

  94. Murder November 29, 2012 at 4:37 pm -      #94

    @andrew in one of the iron snakes book, i think brotherhood of the snake, a system had no planetary defenses or ships just a beacon that took a snake sm a year to respond to. he defeated the dark eldar threat and left 40 years later he returned and the planet had been at war with the dark eldar for ten years and no one responded to their beacon. there are countless worlds like that that have millions upon millions of people living on them who never see imperial help. The galaxy is huge, the imperium as large as it is cannot be everywhere but the borg which eill have astral charts of all imperial worlds will target those areas first amassing the largest borg hive imaginable before they even consider a direct attack.

  95. Cananatra November 29, 2012 at 4:39 pm -      #95

    My money would definitely be on the borg for this fight. The speed the IoM can react is just far too slow they’d be sliced to pieces over time. To top that off, though their ships are powerful they lack some crucial abilities such as sublight acceleration and targeting systems to engage the borg effectively.

  96. andrew November 29, 2012 at 4:39 pm -      #96

    Anyway…the nanoprobe bombs-are they canon? If thwy are they could actually really even things up from my perspective. They would allow the Borg to, for I.stance, mount a raid for tech. It would take significant effort for a worthwhile target, and the Borg would lose some forces for sure, but if they played the long game from a hidden base, they could ecentually represent a credible threat.

  97. Praetor Prefect (I Wear a Fez Now. Fezzes are Cool) November 29, 2012 at 4:41 pm -      #97

    @andrew
    they were more like nanoprobe sprayers. Anyway, they were only in EU which I am told is non-canon (or not top-grade canon)

  98. Cananatra November 29, 2012 at 4:42 pm -      #98

    Nanoprobe dispersing bombs have been used yes. I don’t really think they’d be needed though.

  99. Wolfangel November 29, 2012 at 4:43 pm -      #99

    the borg hasnt seen 10,000 years of constant warfare like the IOM

    also

    noone has still not mentioned how the admech

    and hello cananatra what is your problem with 40k?

  100. Cananatra November 29, 2012 at 4:46 pm -      #100

    Time in war doesnt really matter (also how old are the borg? because they are constantly at war, as it where)

    Hey
    I have no problem with 40k, it is a rich scifi setting and the tabletop game is fun. However I wont say it will win if it will not.

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