A match that has been asked for many times has finally hit the site.
Here we have the crafty veteran in Link, the ‘Ol hero of Hyrule going up against Cloud Strife of Final Fantasy.
For this match all powers are in play, which would *seem* to give an advantage to Link, but it doesn’t mean it would be an easy victory.
How do you think this fight would play out?
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Link would own Cloud. It would be a cool fight and Cloud might last a while but he would be overwhelmed by Link’s power. Link wins. If anyone disagrees, I’d be happy to prove that I’m right. (don’t have time right now)
is that a typo? dante?
Alright Herooftime, it woudn’t be easy for cloud, but i think cloud would win because cloud, all in all, is probley better then link. Link does have the abiltey to revie himslef with faires, but he can only do this like, 5-7 time? Cloud can heal himeself from 1000 to 50900 with a potion he can have 99 of, and can heal himself with a spell that gives him about 10000, can speed himself up and slow or stop others, can summon wired things that do massive damge that never miss, has base spells of fire, ice, water, and earth, can summon a giant metor to crush his enemys.
Admin, with this fight does Link have all his items from every Zelda game, or is he limited to the items from one game.
@El Zilcho – unless a scenario is specified, all matches have the characters with all their available weapons/skills from all of their adventures.
In case you haven’t played four swords, the four sword can hold hundreds of fairies which would automatically revive him given if Cloud were even able to take out the four Links within ten seconds because when one dies he’s revived without even using the fairies. Link has unmatched speed and strength because he has pegasus boots, pegasus seeds, the bunny hood, etc, and for strength, the silver gauntlets alone give him the strength of an army. The Golden Gauntlets then multply that strength, plus there is the power bracelet which allows him to lift trees off of the ground and there are these gloves on a Link to the Past that increases his strength. He also has control of time. Cloud has some control, yes, but not enough. Link also has the mirror shield, which completely deflects anything element or energy based. Link also can drink some of his Chateau Romani which gives him infinite magic, which he can then use the Staff of Byrna (I think that’s the name) from a Link to the Past which makes him completely invulnerable. He has Nayru’s Love that makes him invulnerable. He’s a master of every weapon. His masks give him many useful abilities. His natural endurance alone is incredible, easily shrugging off even a light bulb, but he has armor on again I say a Link to the Past that reduces damage to 1/4, there is a bracelet on Four Swords that would then reduce the remaining damage to 1/4 of that plus on Ocarina of Time, one of the great fairies makes it so that damage is then even reduced to half. Link can turn into a giant, and crush Cloud. Link has so many weapons that he could use to his advantage. Don’t get me started on the Fierce Deity Mask. I’m a big fan of Cloud as well as Link. I’ve seen Advent Children, played through FF7, Final Fantasy Crisis Core, AND Dirge of Cerberus as well, so noone can use that excuse that people use saying that I don’t know the opponent because I do. Cloud is cool, and I’m a big fan but he can’t stand up to Link.
Link wins
Btw Vincent Valentine vs Cloud would be a good fight.
Well, if he can use all items then Cloud is screwed
Items required:
Master Sword
x1 Bottle of Chateau Romani
Nayru’s Love (or Magic Amour)
Basically, Nayru’s love gives Link invincibly for 1 minute and uses up a quarter of his magic bar. That’s where the Chateau Romani comes in. If link drinks a bottle of this then he has infinite magic for three days. Also the Magic Armour from the Wind Waker would also suffice, as it remains active until it drains all of links magic, which wouldn’t happen for 3 days.
Sucks to be Cloud.
Actually the magic wouldn’t go out in three days. The whole reason you don’t permanently have infinite magic on Majora’s Mask is because due to the three day time limit on the game, you’re forced to go back in time to the first day before you even drink the Chateau Romani. It doesn’t just last three days. He would have no need for Nayru’s Love (which lasts a limited time) if he just uses the Staff of Byrna (I am about 90% sure that’s the right name) which doesn’t run out if you don’t run out of magic. Btw since rules weren’t specified, which they should never be, they automatically have their items
in ff games, you fight temporayley invicable people, you fight giants, you fight people who can’t be affected by spells, and you fight people who take about 20% actual damage. Now it is true that you don’t face off agianst all of this at once, but has anyone here heard of emarled? It is consider along with ruby, one of the thoughst game bosss ever, and I took them both down with cloud. Link can control time yes, but in many of the games you have to get to a place to do something in. Oh, and all of the links from all the games are not one link, so unless we are able to go back or forword in time, grave rob that link’s items, and then come back, you can only pick one chacter, or one game.
Not true. Cloud can have Fenrir in this but he doesn’t have it in FF7 does he I thought not. Link isn’t just temporarily invincible, and let’s not forget Cloud has to use a whole team in these fights. I’ll admit Cloud is strong to be able to beat Weapon, but He’s way in over his head with Link.
Btw it might not be the exact same Link but it’s the same body with different concionsness (probably spelled it wrong). How else do you think he’s mastered all these weapons, and keeps and improves his skill. Plus since it wasn’t specified, he gets items from all games. You know more about Cloud than most, but you don’t know Link very well.
you don’t understand though. Cloud is the same through the games, the same guy. While link is a totally differnt person through the games.
that doesn’t matter, he still gets all the items and skills from all the games (as said by the admin)
@El Zilcho – Right!
Cloud doesn’t have the same things throughout the series, now does he. It’s the same body, sometimes different personalities. Because it wasn’t specified as I again say Link has his stuff, and don’t try to change the rules because he has all the stuff he obtains throughout the games, and technically if you could use that as an excuse, Ocarina of Time Link (Nayru’s Love) and Majora’s Mask Link (Chateau Romani) the SAME Link.
“Ocarina of Time Link (Nayru’s Love) and Majora’s Mask Link (Chateau Romani) the SAME Link.”
Not to mention he has the Fierce Deity Mask
I really hope that Nintendo makes a game about the Fierce Deity. He is incredibly powerful (on the Majora’s Mask manga, Majora’s Incarnation hit him once, but it didn’t as much as phase him, then he annihalated Majora in one blow. You know how powerful Majora actually is too), yet his past and how he came to be are mysteries. Clues were left behind, but we can only assume what little there is known. I would definitely buy a game on the Fierce Deity. In case you can’t tell LoZ is my fave. FF is my second fav. Cloud is cool, but he has no chance.
Btw admin. I made a guess and put a comment on battle requests, but You’re suppose to comment there to end up getting a battle request (Sorry bad wording) right?
@HeroofTime85 – to be ‘officially’ recognized, the requests are to be made in the Battle Requests post. But, I’ve been known to take them from other postings if they’re interesting enough!
Thanks for letting me know. I’ve put one idea on this post and Iv’e got a couple on the Battle Requests page
lets get xsome yaoi on well i just think that after a long fight they would fall on each other kiss den start 6to get giggiudygiigidy
I know that link has a bunch of items and magical items but Cloud can also do alot.
I mean seriously,Link’s mirror shield is strong but can it block a meteor shower?
@ John 117
probs
He wouldn’t need to. Link is way stronger than any of Cloud’s enemies (and Cloud himself), with durability outmatching any. I think I recall many REGULAR enemies easily able to survive Comet. I know my stuff about Cloud and Link, both are some of my fav characters on things but Link’s way more powerful. Link is also extremely fast. He could completely dodge comet if nothin else. Link’s mirror shield can block and deflect ANYTHING element or energy-based.
well, the link has the problem of banmoth(however you spell it) zero. It’s attacks are nothing based, and are extremly powerful. Plus, almost no regular enemy can survie a level 5 metor.
Bahamuth ZERO is still energy based for one. Link also has more endurance than any Weapon. I don’t know what you think but I think a Weapon would survive when meteor is used on it.
Don’t try to shoot me down here because I’ve played through ALL FF7 games. 
first of all i konw cloud would kill link no problem
How is it that you think you know that cloud would win. Link would own Cloud. NO CONTEST!!
as i have said before, darth vader pwns them both
Darth Vader would get his *ss kicked by either of them. Link could just use the Thunder Spell on the Adventure of Link (kills all enemies on screen). This would 1. Kill Vader on contact
2. If Vader were to somehow survive the instant kill (which he wouldn’t) it would short out his suit. Without the life support, Vader would die in minutes.
@HeroofTime85
I love your gravatar, I think it matches your personality perfectly.
In any case. I beleive hero to be very well informed pertaining his chosen champion. I think Clouds powers are a bit more massive in scale, but Link’s resourcefullness might deffinitley pull the win in this one. he simply has too much stuff to take into consideration for this match.
This would be a really nice swordfight to see animated.
I think I side with the Hyrulean.
link would try all that fancy sh!t while he stops his heart using the force…or he crushes his body, you choice
Thanks Matapiojo. Your gravatar seems to suit you pretty well too. It makes you look calm and smart. Cloud is powerful, but he’s outmatched.
You forget, Baron Somebody that when it comes to the force, all that is needed to have complete immunity to instant attacks (because all other force attacks can easily be deflected by the mirror shield) is a strong willpower. Link has the ultimate willpower. His willpower is so strong that he resisted the Fierce Deity’s masks corruption. No other could resist that.
Here’s another thought.
The triforce of power keeps Ganondorf alive, despite all the crap that happens to him. Would the triforce of courage do the same to link (and Wisdom for Zelda)? I’m not really sure, and I can’t remember it ever being mentioned in the games.
Ok first of all this isn’t Darth Vader vs Link, it’s Cloud vs Link. Now I admit Link in strong and a good fighter, but look what Cloud did in the movie without any magic or items. He killed Sephiroth and chopped a building in half with one swing of his sword. Besides if Cloud really wanted to kill Link all he had to do was use Omni-Slash which attacks all enemies multiple times, each blow would kil Link and his faeries would run out like crazy. Even if you brought out the four words then all four would be attacked too. Best thing about Omni-Slash is that it never misses and can’t be blocked so Link is dead, end of discussion.
Link use the power of the medallions call on the sages kick Cloud strife into the sacred realm end of discussion
Before Link could do that Cloud would cut him to peices. He wouldn’t stand there while Link called the sages. And even if Link did call the sages. Cloud would summon the Knights of the Round to counter it. Face it everything that Link does Cloud can counter.
Hmm… Well, Since cloud can summon Huge dragons that fly in from space and blow up a section of the earth, or knights that cut you into 1000′s of little pieces all at once. Or the fact that he can jump so high and he virtually floats, he’s very quick, very smart, very strong. Has all the Materia people seem to be forgetting about.
I’m not sure if Cloud could beat link with ALL of links best characteristics. Its like comparing goku to Vegeta when goko is in his normal form, vegeta is in SSJ4. Goku can put up a fight, but vegeta would PROBABLY win….
Link would run up to cloud with the master sword and before any hit could happen Links sword would get smacked out of his hands by the ultima sword.
Link would roll back and shoot some arrows until 5 seconds pass by and cloud kicks him in the face. then cloud picks up his fairy and slams over links head. cloud takes links rope ties link to a tree, then impaling him to make sure he stays on. cloud then blows link up with his own bomb.
Cloud swings his sword around and around and puts it in his sheath
Cloud truly doesn’t have near the necessary power to defeat Link. Link could easily counter anything that Cloud dishes out.
You said cloud has faced enemys who survie metor, think about that. Do you think any of the enemys link faces could survire that? How about being smashed by a fat chicken thing? Or could they take more then 100 swored swings? Almost everyone in link is killed by a combation of three things, inculding bosses.
The question you have to ask yourself is, is link capable of defeating Sephiroth? Cloud is the only one, other than Sora, to defeat Sephiroth. Something that is indeed not a small achievement.
Cloud’s sword moves are quite a bit faster and more dazzling, but I’d say that Link’s use of Naryu’s Love would be enough to hold his attacks in check, while Link pummels him with omnidirectional attacks from the medallions. Of course, given his magical shields and numerous immunities, Cloud could probably hold on for awhile, probably needing some healing to be done. The real deciding factor here is that Link can stop time, which is a far superior time-manipulation compared to Cloud’s. Plus, Link has a great deal more items and powers at his disposal.
In the end, I’m backing the Hero of Time on this one.
Link. Cloud can do all this, but Link fought a giant Lizard thing as a kid. It was like 50 feet tall. Plus, In the turn based attack games, You get more junk, and the enemies are more powerful. But, In the Third person games, They have less health, but It takes more for them to do something really amazing, so you have to defeat them normally without all this stuff. And, Link doesn’t need no knights or anything. He has killed everything, and will CONTINUE to kill everything by himself.
Cloud would slaughter Link. No contest.
Cloud has no way to beat Link. Link’s sheer power overcomes most foes he’s been up against on this site. Cloud can’t hurt Link, let alone killing him.
If Link had one of his invulnerabilty spells on then Cloud could just Despell it or MP Absorb Link’s very small Magic Meter. Once Link no longer has access to magic Cloud could very easily destroy him. Sure Cloud would have to look out for a few things still depending on which Link he is fighting such as Pegesus/Wind Seeds from Oracles Link or Thunder from LoZ/AoL Link, but most of the stuff Link has is remarkably easy to dodge when you can already dodge bullets with ease, or are immune to the effects.
Meanwhile Cloud has sword attacks that are faster than bullets (Omnislash V5), and Link is not shown to be able to handle attacks of that speed without a passive invulnerability spell that Cloud can easily strip away. Only Links what wield the Four Sword are immune to petrificantion, so any Link that doesn’t hold the Four Sword are very easy to deal with. Only WW/PH Link can stop time, so all other Links are easy to stop time in. And Cloud can make himself immune to chronomanipulation so WW/PH Link’s time stop would do him any good.
The only way Link posses a threat to Cloud is if it is Composite Link weilding a Composite Sword that takes the attributes of all of his swords and mixes it into one weapon, with the addition of Chatui Romanii + WW Magic Armor, and mega spamming AoL Link’s Thunder Spell (Spell wouldn’t work because Cloud can become immune to that as well). Even this isn’t entirely unstoppable. First Cloud would have to silence Link, followed by despelling his armor. Now Magic weapons that drain the Magic Meter are no longer usable by Link. Now just cast Stop and Combined Link is completely at Cloud’s mercy. Follow up with whatever super powerful attack Cloud fancies at the moment and Cloud just killed Combined Link.
The ONLY hiccup in all of that is whether or not Thunder would kill Cloud before he could Silence Link. It is something that Cloud cannot block no matter what shield effect he has in play (except Peerless, but that would be outside help), and it is rediculously powerful. But as you can see that is from all the way back to Zelda 2, and the current Link (ww/ph) doesn’t have that spell and thus would be a rather minor threat to Cloud.
cloud would win his omnislash would make him cry and as many times he hits with that move by the time he his done link wont have no more life left over to come back
@Original A
Cloud could try to strip away Link’s magic, but one dose of chateau Romani will make it pointless, and whil he’s doing that, he’s gonna eat it.
As per Link’s reaction time: I want you to consider the Majora fight. A whip crack is a sonic boom. The attacking portion of the whip, the tip, breaks the sound barrier. Now amplify this effect massively, on Majora’s ridiculous long whips, and take away Link’s piece of the triforce, and make him ten years old, and don’t let him sleep for three days, *at least*. Link, in this state, dodged super-sonic attacks. Cloud would be no problem.
Link’s also insanely strong, and durable. Cloud would be wholly unable to harm Link with a sword strike, in my opinion. The forces Link has already actively withstood proof him against it. He could defend himself, anyway, but he can also just straight up tank Cloud. For examples of Link’s durability see:
1. Stopping a massive Goron in motion dead, then reversing it’s momentum entirely and throwing it, without being harmed.
2. Surviving Majora’s death throes which destroyed the moon.
3. Being fired from a cannon in the sky in TP, to the ground. He’s okay!
4. Being fired into the sky.
So on and so forth. A basic extrapolation of physics makes it very unlikely Cloud could physicly harm Link at all.
Furthermore: In Ocarina of Time, Link shoots an arrow to the sun. Minimum velocity to escape the earth’s gravitational pull is mach 22. Yeah. I don’t think Cloud will be dodging that.
Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to add that Link can slow time, which would be a bit of an “I win!” button.
Look. Cloud has Silence, which makes Link unable to cast any spell, Time STOP, which is self explanitory, immune to negative time manipulation (by the way WW/PH Link has a Time Stop, not a Time Slow; not that it matters cause it won’t effect Cloud with the right Materia Set Up), Bullet Time Reflexes (this is around the sound barrier by the way), and severl spells that activate from inside of their target. On top of that Cloud’s best attack, The Omnislash V 6.0, is so fast that Sephiroth, a character whose reflexes surpass Cloud’s own normally, cannot keep up and is totally overwhelmed.
Also Link shot an arrow AT the sun. Neither you nor me are able to actually tell if it him. Not that it matters though because of Shield stopping physical attacks from harming Cloud.
Oh and the current Link doesn’t have any of what you just pointed out.
I read in another thread that unless stated otherwise, a character can use all of their feats. Admin confirmed this in that same thread. I see no otherwise.
Onto your points:
“Look. Cloud has Silence, which makes Link unable to cast any spell”
This is cool and all, but he’s not as powerful of a magician as Ganondorf, and Link’s sword protects him from Ganon’s magic. Cloud’s in some trouble there.
“Time STOP, which is self explanitory”
And useless, unless he intends to run. He cannot physicly harm Link, and his time stop is temporary.
“immune to negative time manipulation (by the way WW/PH Link has a Time Stop, not a Time Slow; not that it matters cause it won’t effect Cloud with the right Materia Set Up),”
I was referring to Majora’s Mask. And to claim he’s totally immune to it is a no-limit fallacy. A strong resistance, sure. What’s the best time manipulation he’s ever negated? And Link’s time manipulation is, as far as can be seen, universal. He literally changes the flow of time. It’s not negative time manipulation, it’s not targetted, either.
“Bullet Time Reflexes (this is around the sound barrier by the way)”
I’m well aware of Cloud’s reflexes, having debated this exact match elsewhere. (I supported Link there, too. He was concluded to be the winner.) To put it bluntly, a 6 foot whip is super-sonic. Majora’s uber-whips were somethign else entirely. Link managed ot handle these in his weakest form, as a child, sleep deprived, with no piece of the triforce. An adult Link in fighting shape will have no problem fiighting Cloud.
“and severl spells that activate from inside of their target. ”
And need to get past Link’s protection. (His sword, among other things.)
“On top of that Cloud’s best attack, The Omnislash V 6.0, is so fast that Sephiroth, a character whose reflexes surpass Cloud’s own normally, cannot keep up and is totally overwhelmed.”
Omnislash has no feats, except for punking Sephiroth, who in turn, has no feats of durability. All we know is it kills Sephiroth. It can also be blocked.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ec6lcDnhQ
It also probably won’t hurt Link. I’ve done some physics calculations concerning these characters before, because yes, I am that much of a nerdy-no-lifer.
“Also Link shot an arrow AT the sun. Neither you nor me are able to actually tell if it him. Not that it matters though because of Shield stopping physical attacks from harming Cloud.”
K, fine, we’ll play your way. Link’s ice arrows can freeze entire volcanoes. (See WW) How’s Cloud’s shield lookin’ now? :p
With Link’s blatantly inhuman strength and reflexes, it’s my opinion he takes Cloud down with ease.
Oh, and lemme apologise in advance if that post comes off as snarky. Someone who read it pointed out that I was being antagonistic. It’s an old reflex from debating against someone else.
No harm meant.
No harm done. I think I’m the same way actually.
Anyways. Factpile Rules says Current Incarnation. There are a total of (currently) 9 charachters named Link that save Hyrule and various other lands from evil. The CURRENT part of that Rule means that it is Spirit Track’s Link in this fight, but if you want to use the Hero of Time (OoT and MM) then I’ll be happy to roll along with it since it seems like we are the only two debating this topic.
Moving on. The Master Sword has only shown to protect Link from Ganondorf’s polymorph spells, and only partially at that. In LTTP the Master Sword did nothing against Ganon’s polymorph spells, and in TP the Master Sword could be overwhelmed by the mist of the Twilight and still force a transformation. It could reflect his projectile magic, but it couldn’t totally block all the magic, and it wasn’t extremely effective against the spells that originated inside his body. On top of that The Triforce of Courage had more to do with blocking Ganondorf’s magic than anything else, and that mostly just prevented Ganon from doing something like teleporting Link into the gap between dimensions, forming a crystal prison around him, and major protection over his soul. Against the less magics like fireballs it didn’t really do much.
Link has been effected by status effects not dissimilar to Silence (several polymorph spells, No Attack status is a spell that Link has been under and one that Cloud can cause). Since Link isn’t immune to status effects in general it would be folly to assume that Link is immune to Silence as well. With Silence in effect Link cannot cast spells (at least not ones that consume magic; I’m not sure about musical magic from the Ocarina and other such things).
Once Time Stop is in effect Cloud can Dispell Link’s protection and then pound on him to his heart’s content. Nothing prevents Cloud from hitting Link with another Stop spell after the first weres off.
Ah I forgot about MM’s Time Slow (never did play that game much).
Regadless, according to FP rules all abilities work as they are intended. Added Effect + Time on an armor slot means Slow and Stop spells do not work against Cloud. Reversing Time might, but that doesn’t exactly give Link a great advantage as it doesn’t refill Link’s inventory but Cloud’s inventory would be refilled.
Link did have the ToC during Majora’s Mask. The Hero of Time retained it till he died, then it was passed onto TP Link. This was a major reason why the Adult Timeline (starting with Wind Waker) didn’t have a Link and why its ToC was shattered to begin with.
Omnislash has the feat of being faster than bullets, faster than a bullet timer, and by a large margin. Sephiroth was completely overwhelmed, he could hardly see Cloud’s movements much less put up a defense against them; this is an attack that is at least super-sonic and one that changes direction extremely quickly. Link’ may be able to see parts of it, but he wouldn’t be able to cover himself from in front, behind, to the sides, above, and below in the time that it takes for Cloud to strike at all of them.
Link’s protection is easily broken with Silence and No-Attack (bonus now that Link cannot use his sword at all).
Blades hurt Link, arrows hurt Link, chickens hurt Link, pigs hurt Link, slowly rolling Gorrons hurt Link. A hit from a very heavy sword moving at a fast pace would hurt Link.
Ice Arrows would HEAL Cloud because Shield absorbs elemental damage.
Cloud could also cast Countdown, Death, Paralyze, Poison, Petrification (mixed results as it depends if Link has the Four Sword or not), or Blindness all to impead Link’s ability.
Cloud could also Slow down Link as well as Haste himself; making himself four times faster than Link as long as Link doesn’t increase his own speed with the Bunny Hood mixed with the Slow Time. This would only cancel the effects thus causing them to have a 1:1 speed ratio between the two of them.
“Moving on. The Master Sword has only shown to protect Link from Ganondorf’s polymorph spells, and only partially at that. In LTTP the Master Sword did nothing against Ganon’s polymorph spells, and in TP the Master Sword could be overwhelmed by the mist of the Twilight and still force a transformation. It could reflect his projectile magic, but it couldn’t totally block all the magic, and it wasn’t extremely effective against the spells that originated inside his body. On top of that The Triforce of Courage had more to do with blocking Ganondorf’s magic than anything else, and that mostly just prevented Ganon from doing something like teleporting Link into the gap between dimensions, forming a crystal prison around him, and major protection over his soul.”
It’s also stopped his telekinesis, and I maintain that it’s the sword that does the protecting, because Link already had the ToC in TP when he was transformed, but just standing near the sword broke the spell. I would additionally file the mist in the twilight realm under a gameplay mechanic, as it contradicts what we see in cutscenes. For example: the first time Link is transformed into a wolf, it’s by the twilight field. The power of light dispells this. Once Link has the sword, he is immune to this. Ganon’s more powerful polymorph spell, the only “permanent” one, was undone by the sword as well, simply by approaching the sword. The Twilight mist seems to me more like a gameplay obstacle than anything. Sort of like how Dante can be injured by minor enemies in DMC, but cutscenes show him shrugging them off.
As for aLttP, Ganondorf had the entire triforce in that game, and Link had not one single piece. Yes, Link was transformed by the sacred realm, but Ganondorf was in possession of a power-ful reality warping relic. Later in this game, the sword actually manages to over-power the triforce itself and put Ganondorf down.
“Link has been effected by status effects not dissimilar to Silence (several polymorph spells, No Attack status is a spell that Link has been under and one that Cloud can cause). Since Link isn’t immune to status effects in general it would be folly to assume that Link is immune to Silence as well. With Silence in effect Link cannot cast spells (at least not ones that consume magic; I’m not sure about musical magic from the Ocarina and other such things).”
This only occurs in games where Link does not have the master sword, or games which came around before the sword had been set up entirely in the lore.
“Once Time Stop is in effect Cloud can Dispell Link’s protection and then pound on him to his heart’s content. Nothing prevents Cloud from hitting Link with another Stop spell after the first weres off.”
The problem here is:
1. He’d need to be able to supercede Link’s protection.
2. He’d need to be able to physicly harm Link.
“Ah I forgot about MM’s Time Slow (never did play that game much).
Regadless, according to FP rules all abilities work as they are intended. Added Effect + Time on an armor slot means Slow and Stop spells do not work against Cloud. Reversing Time might, but that doesn’t exactly give Link a great advantage as it doesn’t refill Link’s inventory but Cloud’s inventory would be refilled.”
Once more, I disagree sir! It’s not a spell. Link alters the flow of time entirely. It has no duration, it lasts until he changes it again. I don’t see why Cloud would be immune to this, as it’s not a negative time effect, or targetted. Still, it’s not a big deal. Moving on.
“Link did have the ToC during Majora’s Mask. The Hero of Time retained it till he died, then it was passed onto TP Link. This was a major reason why the Adult Timeline (starting with Wind Waker) didn’t have a Link and why its ToC was shattered to begin with.” Alright, if he does have it, that explains his blatantly super-human abilities in MM, though it’s still pretty damn impressive.
“Omnislash has the feat of being faster than bullets, faster than a bullet timer, and by a large margin. Sephiroth was completely overwhelmed, he could hardly see Cloud’s movements much less put up a defense against them; this is an attack that is at least super-sonic and one that changes direction extremely quickly. Link’ may be able to see parts of it, but he wouldn’t be able to cover himself from in front, behind, to the sides, above, and below in the time that it takes for Cloud to strike at all of them.”
Link is also fast, and this attack has no showings of strength to be able to put Link down. Cloud also needs to hit a limit break for it to fire off, and there’s even the chance Link can block it entirely. Assuming Cloud does land it flawlessly, what effect will it have?
I keep questioning how Cloud will physicly harm Link because Link has many durability feats.
In WW we directly see Ganondorf beat the crap out of him in a cutscene, as well as being fired out of a catapult into a stone wall, tankign an explosion at point blank with launches him all the way to the tower of the gods miles away, ect.
In TP he sword locks with Ganondorf, stops a moving Goron in motion flat, and is fired at the ground out of a cannon in the sky.
In OoT Ganon knocks the master sword out of his hand, and Link’s unharmed. He also chucks a thousand ton pillar at a speed of around 100 meters per second.
Looking at these feats from a physics standpoint, they’re freakin’ insane.
I’ll show you if you like?
“Blades hurt Link, arrows hurt Link, chickens hurt Link, pigs hurt Link, slowly rolling Gorrons hurt Link. A hit from a very heavy sword moving at a fast pace would hurt Link.”
These all occur in gameplay mechanics and are directly contradictory to the cutscenes we have showing otherwise. Many characters: War, Kratos, Link, Dante, who have great durability in cutscernes, are harmed by this sort of stuff in regular gameplay. What fun would a game be if nothing short of a boss can hurt you? :p
Another point is Link’s arrows. They’re not like regular arrows at all.
in WW, one flies through a tornado to strike a wind god.
In OoT, one is fired to the sun.
The magic arrows are asinine levels of powerful, freezing a volcano and ending an eternal blizzard, respectively. The minimum velocity to escape the earth’s gravity is mach 22. I don’t imagine Cloud avoiding this.
Another issue is Chateau Romani. Infinite magic for three days. Cloud can drain it, assuming that he can, but it will replenish.
I do not think silence or no attack will work on Link, and I personally believe his reaction time is good enough to bust Cloud’s skull with a punch of Cloud tries a sword fight. Link is the stronger of the two by a large margin, and I do not think Link really even needs magic anyway.
That said, if we allow Link something like the magic cape, this isn’t fair at all, because Cloud would be unable to see Link, or strike him physicly. This only applies to aLttP, or composite Link, though.
ok, a lot of you people are being retarded. cloud wins this hands down. even with all his magic link is nowhere near as good at magic as cloud. and that Chateau Romani wouldn’t matter bc cloud could simply knock the bottle out of his hand with his magic or omnislash speed. not to mention the fact the master sword only protects link from DARK magic not all. and link’s mirror shield wouldn’t be enough to stop bahamut ZERO, bahamut ZERO’s attack wouldn’t be completely blocked and the splash effect would fry link. and link’s one hit kill thunder spell wouldn’t matter, given the right equipment (which in this case i’m applying) cloud could absorb all elemental damage thrown at him. and nayru’s love only protects him from damage not being knocked around, even if link used it he would get turned into a bouncy ball by link. besides that your overlooking cloud’s limit breaks, braver, cross slash, beam blade, climhazard, finishing touch(which deals auto death btw) and meteorain. AND (i’m wrapping it up here) link cannot dual wield, cloud can (referring to the movie) therefore if he clashed cloud could pull out another sword (provided link could stand his ground from cloud’s fierce swings) he could easy smash links shield with another blade. OH, one last thing, link is NOT stronger than cloud link handles an average sword mediocrely, only having the basic grip of sword fighting ( i know, i’m a real sword fighter) while cloud wields a huge blade with ease and precision.
er, my bad meant to put
“even if he used it he would get turned into a bouncy ball by cloud”
“( i know, i’m a real sword fighter) while cloud wields a huge blade with ease and precision.”
This and:
“ok, a lot of you people are being retarded.”
and this:
“OH, one last thing, link is NOT stronger than cloud link handles an average sword mediocrely, only having the basic grip of sword fighting ”
Say all anyone needs to know about your post. In closing, I’ll go back to my civil, and intelligent debate with OriginalA.
Also, a shield and sword is actually a superior set-up for one on one combat than dual wielding. It is the rock to dual wield’s scissors, and Cloud’s better off with one sword trying to abuse range.
It seems to me that the way the Master Sword/Dark Mist relation works is that Link is only protected from the polymorph effect is a combination of the sword’s inherent magic and Link’s own will power. From gameplay we see that only when Link is actually wielding the sword is he protected.
While the mirror shield is powerful, it has never been put up against something of the magnitude of something like a blast from Bahamut ZERO. Also, the mirror shield only block magick attacks that are element based, in fights with Ganon Link had to use the Master Sword in order to block magical attacks and only attacks that have a linear attack path (allowing for the tennis matches) not spells that attack non linearly.
As to Link being able to dodge supersonic attacks (Majora’s whip attack) I think it more likely that Link saw the windback for the attack and was able to predict the tajectory and moving out of the flight path.
I’ll take this slowly.
” I would additionally file the mist in the twilight realm under a gameplay mechanic, as it contradicts what we see in cutscenes. For example: the first time Link is transformed into a wolf, it’s by the twilight field. The power of light dispells this. Once Link has the sword, he is immune to this. Ganon’s more powerful polymorph spell, the only “permanent” one, was undone by the sword as well, simply by approaching the sword. The Twilight mist seems to me more like a gameplay obstacle than anything. Sort of like how Dante can be injured by minor enemies in DMC, but cutscenes show him shrugging them off.”
The first time it is by the nature light of Twilight. He breaks that with the Spirit water or whatever they were called (slips my mind right now). Next was the Crystal that was placed inside him. He broke that with the Master Sword, but it could be reinsterted into him to force the transformation again. The Master Sword wasn’t entirely and out right more powerful than the Crystal. Next was the mist while inside the Twilight Realm. This too forces a trasnformation and he is warned that touching it will cause this. That is not a game mechanic, that is the Master Sword being unable to cope with powerful polymorphic magic. A game mechanic would Link being able to lift 200 tons yet struggling to pull up his own weight.
“As for aLttP, Ganondorf had the entire triforce in that game, and Link had not one single piece. Yes, Link was transformed by the sacred realm, but Ganondorf was in possession of a power-ful reality warping relic. Later in this game, the sword actually manages to over-power the triforce itself and put Ganondorf down.”
No it does not. The Master Sword does exactly jack shit against Ganon’s power. It cannot even reflect his magic at that point, and it most certainly doesn’t overpower him. What the Master Sword does in LttP is shoot sword beams. It doesn’t allow Link to resist Ganon’s powerful polymorphic magic like it use to back in TP, it doesn’t allow Link to resist the nature of the Dark Realm like it did with the Twilight Realm in TP, and it doesn’t even hurt Ganon in the slightest. All it did was allow Link to stun Ganon so that a SILVER Arrow could hurt him. The Master Sword, even after being fully upgraded to the Golden Sword (its most powerful form) was unable to cause Ganon any harm at this point and is unable to overcome his magic. Only the Silver Arrows, a gift from one of the highest ranking Fairies (who are generally attributed to Farore and thus possibly a gift from an omnipotent goddess and creator of all life) could cause any harm to Ganon. And the single most damning thing is is the fact that the Triforce was in a completely differant room; Ganon fought Link without the Triforce on him during LttP and he still has some of the best defense stats in the entire series.
“This only occurs in games where Link does not have the master sword, or games which came around before the sword had been set up entirely in the lore. ”
The Oracle games, where both Link can acqure the Master Sword and both OoT and LttP have already established the Master Sword’s greater abilities. Regardless of them, the status attacks still affect Link.
“Once more, I disagree sir! It’s not a spell. Link alters the flow of time entirely. It has no duration, it lasts until he changes it again. I don’t see why Cloud would be immune to this, as it’s not a negative time effect, or targetted. Still, it’s not a big deal. Moving on. ”
Semantics. There is still a target, it just isn’t Cloud but Time itself. That doesn’t deal with the fact that Cloud’s protection from chronomanipulation is still in efffect.
“Link is also fast, and this attack has no showings of strength to be able to put Link down. Cloud also needs to hit a limit break for it to fire off, and there’s even the chance Link can block it entirely. Assuming Cloud does land it flawlessly, what effect will it have? ”
Yes Link is fast, but this attack is shown to work against characters that have reaction times that are on par with LInk’s. Not only that but it completely overwhelms said character to the point of absurdity. Advent Children showed that Cloud doesn’t need to charge up a Limit Break bar (which would fall under the catagory of game mechanics by the way) and can unleash Limit Break attacks when he chooses.
Link has not shown the ability to turn fast enough to keep up with an attack that is as fast as Omnislash V6.0. Link might be able to see the movements, but like Sephiroth, he will be unable to move fast enough to keep himself protected from various angles.
There is a differance from being able to dodge or block a supersonic attack that is coming from straight on and dodging or blocking one that is constantly changing its direction with little to no loss of speed. Link has done the former with some success. Cloud is able to preform the later.
I missed this earlier in this post:
““Once Time Stop is in effect Cloud can Dispell Link’s protection and then pound on him to his heart’s content. Nothing prevents Cloud from hitting Link with another Stop spell after the first weres off.”
The problem here is:
1. He’d need to be able to supercede Link’s protection.
2. He’d need to be able to physicly harm Link. ”
1) Dispell strips Link of his protection. That is what it does.
2) Just about to answer it.
“I keep questioning how Cloud will physicly harm Link because Link has many durability feats.
In WW we directly see Ganondorf beat the crap out of him in a cutscene, as well as being fired out of a catapult into a stone wall, tankign an explosion at point blank with launches him all the way to the tower of the gods miles away, ect.
In TP he sword locks with Ganondorf, stops a moving Goron in motion flat, and is fired at the ground out of a cannon in the sky.
In OoT Ganon knocks the master sword out of his hand, and Link’s unharmed. He also chucks a thousand ton pillar at a speed of around 100 meters per second. ”
Most of those are played for the Rule of Funny. On the other end of the spectrum you have Link being damaged by slow moving, overgrown, chestnuts. Bubbles, bat claws, pointy swords, and the like. Don’t cherry pick when Link is indestructible. This is also an Overwhelming Exception fallacy. You are citing only from cutscnes, durring which Link has cutscene invulnerability, to determine his endurance and are excluded every evidence to the contrary, which is the vast majoriry of the game and all of the gameplay where Link is far from indestructible as you claim he is.
Not only that but you are doing it poorly as when Ganon disarmed Link in OoT he struck only the Master Sword. OF COURSE Link would be unharmed; he didn’t get hit! He just lost his grip. And the first two of the three feats from TP are strength feats; they have no relevance to how hard it is to hurt Link.
“These all occur in gameplay mechanics and are directly contradictory to the cutscenes we have showing otherwise. Many characters: War, Kratos, Link, Dante, who have great durability in cutscernes, are harmed by this sort of stuff in regular gameplay. What fun would a game be if nothing short of a boss can hurt you? :p”
I can’t comment on War, but Kratos actually IS just as weak in cutscnese as he is in gameplay; that was a poor example. Link would also be a poor example as you are saying that it as an absolute and provable thing, yet here we are debating it. Dante is too just as powerful in gameplay as in cutscnes; he is far from unkillable and in no single cutscene has he taken an amount of damage that would have killed him during gameplay. He is actually fairly balanced between gameplay and cutscenes; he is just really really broken in gameplay if you are a good player (Royal Block trumps most everything). Poor examples in trying to prove your point since your examples are ones that support that gameplay and cutscnes are not too far removed from each other. Certainly not as far as you claim.
“Another point is Link’s arrows. They’re not like regular arrows at all.
in WW, one flies through a tornado to strike a wind god.
In OoT, one is fired to the sun.
The magic arrows are asinine levels of powerful, freezing a volcano and ending an eternal blizzard, respectively. The minimum velocity to escape the earth’s gravity is mach 22. I don’t imagine Cloud avoiding this.”
Yeah I’m calling bull shit because I know for a fact that you don’t have any proof that that arrow actually hit the sun or even got close to hitting escape velocity. All you see is Link shooting in the direction of the sun and Fire Arrows being given to him. Everything is being obscured because you are looking straight at a star! The burden of proof is on you to definitively prove that Link can hit the sun with an arrow and until you provid said proof Link’s arrows move somewhere between 200 and 300 feet per second; a far cry from the 24,560.8 fps that you claim (yet have provided no proof for). The other example is unquantified.
“Another issue is Chateau Romani. Infinite magic for three days. Cloud can drain it, assuming that he can, but it will replenish.”
Yes and in effect causes Cloud to have infinate magic as well. Except he can cause Link’s spells to fail, cause Link to be unable to cast spells, and remove Link’s buffing spells.
“I do not think silence or no attack will work on Link, and I personally believe his reaction time is good enough to bust Cloud’s skull with a punch of Cloud tries a sword fight. Link is the stronger of the two by a large margin, and I do not think Link really even needs magic anyway.”
Burden of Proof. I’ve stated why Cloud’s spell would work. You THINK they won’t. As it stands my arguement has greater weight than yours. Also you have proven that Link will be able to see most of what Cloud is doing. Link himself does not move that fast however. I am capable of seeing a car move at 100 MPH and in some cases I could even dodge one. None of that means that I am able to move at 100 MPH. Despite this you are basically claiming that just because Link’s reaction time (note that word: REaction) is high that his Action time would be equally as high, yet Link has never been shown to break the sound barrier himself. He can see supersonic things coming toward him and attempt to move out of the way or bring up his shield, but these are small movements and the object has some distance to travel; he has time to preform these small movements even successfully block/dodge the supersonic attack even though it is much faster than him. On the other hand Cloud IS capable of breaking the sound barrier. Cloud’s entire body and every movement can exceed Mach 1 as he did with the Omnislash V6.0, and we known this because Sephiroth is a character that is easily capable of dealing with supersonic attack in the same manner that Link deals with them (in the manner I described). Yet despite that Sephiroth is barely even able to see this particular attack, much less form anything resembeling a defense against it.
“That said, if we allow Link something like the magic cape, this isn’t fair at all, because Cloud would be unable to see Link, or strike him physicly. This only applies to aLttP, or composite Link, though.”
Dispell! Now Link’s magic cape just turned off. But again that is the wrong Link.
Also you haven’t said how Link is going to get past Cloud’s Shield, which nulls physical damage and absorbs elemental damage, because, you know, he kinda has to if he is going to have any chance of hurthing Cloud.
“You are citing only from cutscnes, durring which Link has cutscene invulnerability, to determine his endurance and are excluded every evidence to the contrary, which is the vast majoriry of the game and all of the gameplay where Link is far from indestructible as you claim he is.”
There’s no such thing as cutscene invulnerability, and scutscenes >>>>>> gameplay. Gameplay mechanics are almost entirely invalid in a debate as a rule. I figured I’d highlight that. It’s not an overwhlming exception fallacy whatsoever, because they’re not contradicted by the canon. They are the canon. The gameplay is the gameplay. The part that’s supposed to challenge the player.
“Yeah I’m calling bull shit because I know for a fact that you don’t have any proof that that arrow actually hit the sun or even got close to hitting escape velocity. All you see is Link shooting in the direction of the sun and Fire Arrows being given to him. Everything is being obscured because you are looking straight at a star! The burden of proof is on you to definitively prove that Link can hit the sun with an arrow and until you provid said proof Link’s arrows move somewhere between 200 and 300 feet per second; a far cry from the 24,560.8 fps that you claim (yet have provided no proof for). The other example is unquantified.”
And yet, you totally ignored that the arrows go through hurrican force winds to strike a wind god at the center of a cyclone. An arrow at regular speed cannot do this.
“Burden of Proof. I’ve stated why Cloud’s spell would work. You THINK they won’t. As it stands my arguement has greater weight than yours.”
Tunnel vision. The evidence supporting this is all in the earlier part of my post. This was where I was reaching my conclusion. I explained why Link’s magic will be just fine, for example:
“I missed this earlier in this post:
““Once Time Stop is in effect Cloud can Dispell Link’s protection and then pound on him to his heart’s content. Nothing prevents Cloud from hitting Link with another Stop spell after the first weres off.”
The problem here is:
1. He’d need to be able to supercede Link’s protection.
2. He’d need to be able to physicly harm Link. ””
You argued that dispel just works. That’s what it does. So, tell me, would dispel just work on an Iron Halo from WH40K? Or The Star Rod from Paper Mario? Things more powerful than Cloud, or with a source more powerful than his own, will be able to resist such shenanigans.
““Another issue is Chateau Romani. Infinite magic for three days. Cloud can drain it, assuming that he can, but it will replenish.”
Yes and in effect causes Cloud to have infinate magic as well. Except he can cause Link’s spells to fail, cause Link to be unable to cast spells, and remove Link’s buffing spells.”
What’s the best thing we ever see dispel work on in canon? You’re also ignoring cast times, and that Link could put an arrow in Cloud while he does these things. It’s also never worked on an item, either. You dspel a spell, not an item.
“There’s no such thing as cutscene invulnerability, and scutscenes >>>>>> gameplay. Gameplay mechanics are almost entirely invalid in a debate as a rule. I figured I’d highlight that. It’s not an overwhlming exception fallacy whatsoever, because they’re not contradicted by the canon. They are the canon. The gameplay is the gameplay. The part that’s supposed to challenge the player. ”
The gameplay is canon as well. Canon that you are disregarding. THAT is cherry picking. THAT is a fallacy.
“And yet, you totally ignored that the arrows go through hurrican force winds to strike a wind god at the center of a cyclone. An arrow at regular speed cannot do this. ” I most certainly did not ignore it. I said it was unquantifiable. And in a game where Link controls wind what is to say that he didn’t dampen the wind speed there? You still didn’t prove Mach 22 by the way.
“Tunnel vision. The evidence supporting this is all in the earlier part of my post. This was where I was reaching my conclusion. I explained why Link’s magic will be just fine, for example:”
… No… You exaggerated the abilities of the Master Sword and tried to pass it off as fact. I called you on that and you have failed to reply on the matter. On top of that you misidentified circumstances and disregarded them as unapplicable incedentes. I then proved additional information on why these cases would still be applicable and you again failed to reply on the matter.
“You argued that dispel just works. That’s what it does. So, tell me, would dispel just work on an Iron Halo from WH40K? Or The Star Rod from Paper Mario? Things more powerful than Cloud, or with a source more powerful than his own, will be able to resist such shenanigans. ”
Link’s protection works against attacks not debuffs. Dispell is a debuff. Thus it would work. The majority of your questions afterwards are pointless as they are situations that are not direcly comparable to the one here.
“What’s the best thing we ever see dispel work on in canon? You’re also ignoring cast times, and that Link could put an arrow in Cloud while he does these things. It’s also never worked on an item, either. You dspel a spell, not an item.”
Anything that has buff spells. Seriously. As long as it has a buff spell then Cloud can Debuff it. Cast time is abiguous as various sources (all of them top level canon) contradic each other and cite between a few seconds to near instantanious. The more recent sources all agree on the faster cast times. Incendally the longer cast times can be chalked up to game mechanics as real time vs battle time isn’t a 1:1 ratio. Cloud’s Shield can be set up so that it is auto cast on him at the start of the fight. And Magic Cape is a spell. It consumes magic at a constant rate. Debuff disrupts that flow and causes the spell to fail. Of course that doesn’t stop Link from using it again, but Silence would. Silence would also work at causing the Magic Cape to stop and it is constantly requiring to tap into Link’s magic meter. Silence causes Link to be unable to use his magic and so the Cape would be unable to access that pool of magic and the spell would end.
““There’s no such thing as cutscene invulnerability, and scutscenes >>>>>> gameplay. Gameplay mechanics are almost entirely invalid in a debate as a rule. I figured I’d highlight that. It’s not an overwhlming exception fallacy whatsoever, because they’re not contradicted by the canon. They are the canon. The gameplay is the gameplay. The part that’s supposed to challenge the player. ”
The gameplay is canon as well. Canon that you are disregarding. THAT is cherry picking. THAT is a fallacy.”
Link wins while Cloud waits for his turn.
““And yet, you totally ignored that the arrows go through hurrican force winds to strike a wind god at the center of a cyclone. An arrow at regular speed cannot do this. ” I most certainly did not ignore it. I said it was unquantifiable. And in a game where Link controls wind what is to say that he didn’t dampen the wind speed there? You still didn’t prove Mach 22 by the way.”
Because he didn’t have the power to do so, for one. All he could do was change wind direction at this point in the game, which does nothing to a giant cyclone being independantly controlled by a wind god. Link /pew pew’d him. This doesn’t prove mach 22, but it does prove that the arrows are moving very fast. In order to make it through the cyclone they’d have to be moving faster than bullets, that much is certain. The mach 22 is a minimum number required to escape the pull of earth’s gravity. Whether or not this is entirely applicable doesn’t matter. Cloud cannot dodge an arrow fast enoguh to go through a cyclone.
“… No… You exaggerated the abilities of the Master Sword and tried to pass it off as fact. I called you on that and you have failed to reply on the matter. On top of that you misidentified circumstances and disregarded them as unapplicable incedentes. I then proved additional information on why these cases would still be applicable and you again failed to reply on the matter.”
I love that my quote here ends with “For example:” I exagerated nothing, and I didn’t reply, no, but mostly because I have time constraints, and a need to bring up some more important points. Here’s the thing with the sword:
It protects Link from the magic of the twilight realm The fog is the magic of the twilight realm. It protects Link from the more powerful magic of Ganon. You see the issue here right? We have a cutscene which directly overrides gameplay.
““You argued that dispel just works. That’s what it does. So, tell me, would dispel just work on an Iron Halo from WH40K? Or The Star Rod from Paper Mario? Things more powerful than Cloud, or with a source more powerful than his own, will be able to resist such shenanigans. ”
Link’s protection works against attacks not debuffs. Dispell is a debuff. Thus it would work. The majority of your questions afterwards are pointless as they are situations that are not direcly comparable to the one here.”
The sword works on debuffs, thnx, and you avoided the question. They are comparable. And the answers are “no”. Here’s why; in order to shut off or over power another magic, it needs to do just that, over power it. To say it can debuff any buff is a plain no limit fallacy, which is what you do here:
“Anything that has buff spells. Seriously. As long as it has a buff spell then Cloud can Debuff it. ”
Furthermore, no, magic cape is an item, and despell has never been shown to work on an item. It slowly works down Link’s magic, sure, but Cloud can’t see him to cast the *targetted* dispel on him. Once again, this is irrelevant, because I’m using OoT Link, but it would be totally impossible for Cloud to counter it! :p
Dispel has no feats. You could not answer what the most powerful thing it has ever worked on in canon is, and it’s never worked on items. To assume it can override something like Nayru’s love, is fallacious when the feats do not stack up.
You’ve asserted it “disrupts the flow of magic” but this is not said. It simply dispels. It cannot dispel something more powerful than itself anymore than you can move someone larger than yourself from their favoured seat in a theater. In this case, much larger. Nayru’s love can stand up to Ganondorf.
Onto Cloud’s shield, what’s the greatest force it’s ever stopped? Because I don’t think it would stand up to an attack from Link, unless it has an extremely impressive feat. The golden gauntlets give Link insane strength.
Kenny C. mathed the pillar as weighing 900+ tons, but I’ll call it 500 because I’m cool like that. It was in the air for slightly more than a second and flew close to 200 meters. We’ll say 100 meters /second.
K = 1/2mv^2
m = 453592.36999975 Kg
v = 100 meters per second.
K = 2267961849.9987 joules.
To put this in perspective, let’s see how fast Link could throw me?
I’m admittedly not a large fellow, short, and skinny. Still, it’ll be lulz, so let’s see.
………__
v = / 2K / m
K = 2267961849.9987
m = 63.5 Kg
v = 8451.5 meters per second. That’s equivelant to mach 24. My skinny ass would be in SPACE. D: Definite day ruiner.
Sooooo, what’s Cloud’s shield done to compare to this? I’d also like to point out that in A.C. Cloud got shot, and wounded. If Link threw me at Cloud, Cloud would be screwed. (Me too, but yeah..)
Anyway, back to Link’s durability:
“Not only that but you are doing it poorly as when Ganon disarmed Link in OoT he struck only the Master Sword. OF COURSE Link would be unharmed; he didn’t get hit! He just lost his grip. And the first two of the three feats from TP are strength feats; they have no relevance to how hard it is to hurt Link.”
This makes no sense in the context of physics. Whatsoever. Ganon is strong enough to disarm Link. This puts him on at-least a similar strength level, if not stronger. The force behind that swing would have reduced a normal man to liquid. Thus: it’s a durability feat.
Silence: Also a targetted spell, what feats does it have? What quantifiable ability does it have, to be able to shut down something Ganondorf cannot?
Imho: Link is too durable, and too strong for Cloud to do much against. Even if his magic works, his shield spell will be shattered, and Link can react to Cloud’s movements. Cloud, conversely’s been dented by things far less powerful than Link. Sephiroth, for example, had Cloud at his mercy in A.C. Sephiroth’s strength is only about Class 10-15? Link’s Strength with the GG’s is in the meta-human range.
“It protects Link from the magic of the twilight realm The fog is the magic of the twilight realm. It protects Link from the more powerful magic of Ganon. You see the issue here right? We have a cutscene which directly overrides gameplay.”
no, as a matter of fact, we do not, as orginalA already stated it didn’t protect him if he enters the twilight mist. and the crystal can be put back in link’s forehead to transform him back. which proves the master sword DOESN’T protect him.
“in order to shut off or over power another magic, it needs to do just that, over power it. To say it can debuff any buff is a plain no limit fallacy”
Wrong. if you’ve played dispel can shut off ANY spell regardless of it’s strength or who casted it. meaning it could shut off any of link’s magic (provided it wasn’t caused by an item)
“It cannot dispel something more powerful than itself anymore than you can move someone larger than yourself from their favoured seat in a theater. ”
wrong on both parts. dispel is stronger than ANY spell because it unweaves the spell, which cancels it, it’s freakin common sense, which would negate link’s casting of nayru’s love meaning he’d have to try and cast it again. AND you can easily move someone bigger than you from their seat with pressure point manipulation, i know b/c i’ve done so when someone jacked my seat at lunch.
“Onto Cloud’s shield, what’s the greatest force it’s ever stopped? Because I don’t think it would stand up to an attack from Link, unless it has an extremely impressive feat.”
uhm, to put it lightly i reduced sephiroth’s “supernova” to 0 damage with shield and it’s supposed to do 9,999 to everyone. so yeah, shield could withhold link’s attacks.
“Also a targetted spell, what feats does it have? What quantifiable ability does it have, to be able to shut down something Ganondorf cannot?”
Plenty, it completely shuts down magical ability. which ganon has never been able to do. (seriously most fire emblem villians seem scarier than him.)
“Imho: Link is too durable, and too strong for Cloud to do much against. Even if his magic works, his shield spell will be shattered, and Link can react to Cloud’s movements. Cloud, conversely’s been dented by things far less powerful than Link. Sephiroth, for example, had Cloud at his mercy in A.C. Sephiroth’s strength is only about Class 10-15? Link’s Strength with the GG’s is in the meta-human range.”
ok, hate to burst your bubble but clouds cut pieces of a BUILDING in half with nothing but his sword and his own strength and took down bahamut sin, meaning would frag link’s durability. true cloud was dented, BY A BULLET!!!, the same would happen to link. cloud’s shield spell could take ANYTHING link could throw at it
fire arrow- absorbed
ice arrow- absorbed
light arrow-absorbedpee
din’s fire- absorbed
bombs- absorbed as well
regular arrows- could be dodged. (their speed varies from game to game)
AND FINALLY your most wrong statement so far
“Also, a shield and sword is actually a superior set-up for one on one combat than dual wielding. It is the rock to dual wield’s scissors”
this is probably the most single brain celled comment yet. a sword and shield is an INFERIOR setup to dual wielding so long as it’s two different weapons you’re wielding (not two copies of the same weapon). plus link’s left handed, cloud could hit his shield with his right sword and pop him a good one with his left hand blade because he can’t block a strike to his right side with his left arm.
a shield has no maneuverability, it’s just stuck there on your arm. while a second sword can be reverse gripped, dropped if necessary and can be maneuvered around. thus proving that dual wielding is scissors to a shields PAPER.
plus you’re probably thinking about the wrong link, it’s the WW/PH link. it’s not a composite, it said he had all abilities but by forum rules the current incarnation is used. so link wouldn’t be able to use a lot of his “grown-up” abilities and weapons. giving cloud a further edge.
and cloud could easily polymorph link or do other things with his magic.
stone-petrifies enemy after certain time (10 seconds)
frog- changes enemy into frog.
slow-slows link to a crawl.
stop-freeze link in time(which link has no immunity to)
plus there are clouds LB’s
finishing touch- kills a non-boss enemy instantly
omnislash version 5- there is no defense for this.
beam blade- which he could fire from a good distance away.
meteorain- make meteors fall within seconds of him swinging his sword.
now, if you recall, link doesn’t have much he can actually use as him tiny self as compared to the adult link. but he does have (and i will tell you the counters for them too)
nayru’s love(dispel)
din’s fire(would just get absorbed)
light arrows(either dodged or absorbed)
fire arrows(either dodged or absorbed)
ice arrows(again, either dodged or absorbed)
and i’ll stop here so there’s something left later….
so all in all, i say cloud would beat link, not easily, but he would win.
if you’re not going to counter-argue then i hereby nominate cloud for the FP award.
i take it no one cares that i’ve just single handedly told how cloud would win?
i care thankyou i was starting to doubt cloud thankyou thankyou thankyou
you have restored my faith in awesome FF warriors being able to destroy crappy nintendo green suited wimps
@jay666
haha, no prob, but link is no wimp. he’s decently strong, but he doesn’t stack up to cloud though.
although what would be more interesting is vincent valentine vs link. but i doubt it’ll happen.
This is the first I noticed this and I am very impressed at how you covered all the points in comment #65. You have exceeded my expectations as a promising Factpiler.
@thesorrow
i’ve learned from viewing some of the best
cases in point
Kenny C
L-W
you
marche
and others.
That is a great way to learn how to debate, I did the exact same thing by observing Triumvirate (L-W, Alphacommando, and Mata)
indeed it is a great way to learn. especially when you have brilliant people to observe. the better your observations the better you can become at debate.
Indeed I have used my observational skills many times in my life and has served me greatly.
@the sorrow
i know, in fact i’ve seen a lot of and learned a lot from some of your debates.
@admin
can we give cloud the award now? i’ve already defeated the people who attempted to back up link (who did so rather poorly, no offense to them)
SERIOUSLY CLOUD AWARD NOW
please
and how do you change your picture
@jay you change your picture by signing up with gravatar.com…dw its free and you choose your link throught that.
anyone else notice the description of admins up the top saying
“Here we have the crafty veteran in Link, the ‘Ol hero of Hyrule going up against Dante the Demon Slayer of the Devil May Cry series.
For this match all powers are in play, which would *seem* to give an advantage to Link, but it doesn’t mean it would be an easy victory”.
cloud isnt off devil may cry
yeah i noticed that and thanks
ive had to change my name
superman and goku is like the umovable object vs the unstopable force there wont be a winner but goku would be my main choice as the winner of this fight
i didnt have to change my name awesome
Time to show why Cloud loses again.
[quote]no, as a matter of fact, we do not, as orginalA already stated it didn’t protect him if he enters the twilight mist. and the crystal can be put back in link’s forehead to transform him back. which proves the master sword DOESN’T protect him.[/quote]
Mist is a gameplay obstacle, and Midna takes the sword when you transform into a wolf, she even says so earlier in the game, so your point is moot.
[quote]Wrong. if you’ve played dispel can shut off ANY spell regardless of it’s strength or who casted it. meaning it could shut off any of link’s magic (provided it wasn’t caused by an item)[/quote]
This is
1. Negated by the mastersword
2. A no limit fallacy
3. Wrong as a result of 1 & 2.
[quote]wrong on both parts. dispel is stronger than ANY spell because it unweaves the spell, which cancels it, it’s freakin common sense, which would negate link’s casting of nayru’s love meaning he’d have to try and cast it again. AND you can easily move someone bigger than you from their seat with pressure point manipulation, i know b/c i’ve done so when someone jacked my seat at lunch.[/quote]
No limit fallacy, gameplay mechanic, false, ect.
You cannot claim it will work on any spell, and not provide examples of the most powerful magic it’s worked on. Also, Master Sword.
ALSO: Lulzinternettoughguys. Had you done that, you should have gotten your ass kicked, but maybe they play nice wherever you’re from.
[quote]uhm, to put it lightly i reduced sephiroth’s “supernova” to 0 damage with shield and it’s supposed to do 9,999 to everyone. so yeah, shield could withhold link’s attacks.[/quote]
OMG. Stop. Using. Gameplay mechanics. These are not evidence, and Supernova is one of the most regularly debunk and humiliated piss-poor weak attacks in FF canon. It doesn’t even kill Cloud, who can be rendered out of commission by a BULLET.
Shield has NO feats whatsoever to put it on a level where it could stand up to Link.
[quote]Plenty, it completely shuts down magical ability. which ganon has never been able to do. (seriously most fire emblem villians seem scarier than him.)[/quote]
Uhm. LOL? Ganondorf is an extremely powerful villain, who’s shown the ability to *merge dimensions*, levitate castles passively, destroy islands, turn off the sun, ad created a world wide storm. The latter 3 he did all without his full power.
Ganon >>>> Cloud.
[quote]ok, hate to burst your bubble but clouds cut pieces of a BUILDING in half with nothing but his sword and his own strength and took down bahamut sin, meaning would frag link’s durability. true cloud was dented, BY A BULLET!!!, [/quote]
Let me explain to you how durable Link is. Link is so durable, that he can survive a blow with 4.5 gigajoules of energy behind it. Cloud would never hurt him. Cutting steel and concrete? That’s small scale, very small scale by comparison.
4.5 gigajoules os strength is enough to allow someone to literally benchpress a fully loaded aircraft carrier, this amount of force is not immediately lethal to Link.
[quote]the same would happen to link. cloud’s shield spell could take ANYTHING link could throw at it
fire arrow- absorbed
ice arrow- absorbed
light arrow-absorbedpee
din’s fire- absorbed
bombs- absorbed as well
regular arrows- could be dodged. (their speed varies from game to game)[/quote]
Link is WELL beyond bullet proof, also, I lol’d at shield absorbing the magic arrows.
Fire arrows can stop an eternal blizzard, and ice arrows can *freeze a volcano*. Cloud’s shield has NEVER stood up to that kind of power. Link is both physicly, and magicly, capable of shattering that shield.
also, his arrows are fast enough to fly through a wind god’s personal cycline and hit him while he hangs out just below the clouds, and to escape the earth’s atmosphere. Link’s arrows would be much faster, and much deadlier than a bullet.
[quote]this is probably the most single brain celled comment yet. a sword and shield is an INFERIOR setup to dual wielding so long as it’s two different weapons you’re wielding (not two copies of the same weapon). plus link’s left handed, cloud could hit his shield with his right sword and pop him a good one with his left hand blade because he can’t block a strike to his right side with his left arm.
a shield has no maneuverability, it’s just stuck there on your arm. while a second sword can be reverse gripped, dropped if necessary and can be maneuvered around. thus proving that dual wielding is scissors to a shields PAPER.[/quote]
Now this, I legit LOL’d at.
1. Shield+Sword is an infinitely superior defensive set up, Cloud would never land a hit.
2. Shield+Sword is almost as good offensively, and a shield is a very effective weapon.
3. Overall, a shield and sword are superior, this is why you did not see dual wielders on the medieval battlefield.
4. You can out fight a dual wielder with a single weapon because using two weapons causes them to swing each individual weapon more slowly. Fun fact. Link’s so much stronger than Cloud that he doesn’t even need the shield or to defend, one attack from Link ends this thread.
[quote]plus you’re probably thinking about the wrong link, it’s the WW/PH link. it’s not a composite, it said he had all abilities but by forum rules the current incarnation is used. so link wouldn’t be able to use a lot of his “grown-up” abilities and weapons. giving cloud a further edge.[/quote]
FALSE, check post 14 in THIS EXACT THREAD. Link gets all items and abilities from all games, I’ve been generous enough to ONLY use OoT Link.
But really, you’re dealing with an infinite magic powered giant Link with magic armour, bombos, ether, quake, spell, ect… who’s totally impervious to all of Cloud’s attacks and strong enough to ignore Cloud’s shield.
Link wins.
FP award, nao.
……GRAAAAAAH!
you do not listen to reason do you?
THE MASTER SWORD PROVIDES NO MAGICAL PROTECTION FOR LINK!
SUPERNOVA IS NOT A GAMEPLAY MECHANIC! AFTER CASTING IT ON ALL MEMBERS OF MY PARTY SUPERNOVA DID 0 DAMAGE!
now….. calming down….. to bust this bit by bit.
“Mist is a gameplay obstacle, and Midna takes the sword when you transform into a wolf, she even says so earlier in the game, so your point is moot.”
yes, it is a gameplay obstacle, but it is still cannon. and no she does not, i have played and beaten the game 100% and have no recollection of her saying such a thing.
“this is
1. Negated by the mastersword
2. A no limit fallacy
3. Wrong as a result of 1 & 2.”
1. wrong (as proven above) 2. the spell is designed as such. 3. prove it.
“You cannot claim it will work on any spell, and not provide examples of the most powerful magic it’s worked on. Also, Master Sword.”
lets see, it can negate ANY powerup spell such as regen, shield, pretty much any spell that last longer than a few second. AND WILL YOU GET OFF THE MASTER SWORD THING, I”VE ALREADY EXPLAINED THATS FALSE!
“OMG. Stop. Using. Gameplay mechanics. These are not evidence, and Supernova is one of the most regularly debunk and humiliated piss-poor weak attacks in FF canon. It doesn’t even kill Cloud, who can be rendered out of commission by a BULLET.”
it doesn’t kill cloud due to PIS and no, he was wounded by a bullet after a long and severely weakening battle with sephiroth, who is unbeatable by anyone but cloud.
“Let me explain to you how durable Link is. Link is so durable, that he can survive a blow with 4.5 gigajoules of energy behind it. Cloud would never hurt him. Cutting steel and concrete? That’s small scale, very small scale by comparison.”
two words: PROVE.IT.
“Fire arrows can stop an eternal blizzard, and ice arrows can *freeze a volcano*. Cloud’s shield has NEVER stood up to that kind of power. Link is both physicly, and magicly, capable of shattering that shield.”
*facepalm* *facetv* *facedesk* shield absorbs any non-physical attack and changes them so they heal the one who has shield casted on them. and link is no where near strong enough magically to break shield.
“Link is WELL beyond bullet proof, also, I lol’d at shield absorbing the magic arrows.”
no he is not. a bullet would blow his F*cking brains out. and yes, shield would absorb any magic attack link has.
and i’m not even going into the shield and sword vs. two swords. although i will tell you no one used dual wielding back then because no one had the ability to master it.
PLUS your still using OoT link, when you’re supposed to be using ST link, he has all his abilies (that a small link can use anyway) but he is not the adult link due to current incarnations.
“But really, you’re dealing with an infinite magic powered giant Link with magic armour, bombos, ether, quake, spell, ect… who’s totally impervious to all of Cloud’s attacks and strong enough to ignore Cloud’s shield.”
no, we’re not. considering the tiny link wouldn’t even be able to use a lot of the stuff from the other games he’s gonna die. nuff said.
NO FP AWARD FOR LINK!
“1. Shield+Sword is an infinitely superior defensive set up, Cloud would never land a hit.
2. Shield+Sword is almost as good offensively, and a shield is a very effective weapon.
3. Overall, a shield and sword are superior, this is why you did not see dual wielders on the medieval battlefield.
4. You can out fight a dual wielder with a single weapon because using two weapons causes them to swing each individual weapon more slowly. Fun fact. Link’s so much stronger than Cloud that he doesn’t even need the shield or to defend, one attack from Link ends this thread.”
im not arguing for link or cloud just this post.
weapon-wise i can tell you dont know shit. sword shield is a form of dual wielding, where one uses a broadsword or other short easily handled weapon in one arm and a shield in the off hand. it is not infinitely superior, every figthing style has weakness.
sword and shield may seem perfect, but its no better than any other. just like all dual styles they suffer from decrease attack strength. although they have fast defense and a large surface to guard with its not for extended combat, its very common for these fighters to return with broken arms, dislocated shoulders, etc. its viable to simply bash at the shield until you break their arm or they have to go on the offense because they cant gaurd anymore.
as to your forth point you really dont know what your talkin about. dual wielding doesnt make you slower it makes you faster, dual wielder go thru extensive weight training and sword forms to make the amphidextrous with their weapons, they lack attack strength. this fighting style is versitile and adaptable, master do not block they deflect and counter. the style wasnt used much in medival war because it lacked the swing strength need to crush armor.
two handed styles are the upper teir sword styles since the wielder only has one weapon they are generally slower than a dual wielder; however this style has emphasis on attacking when there are openings, they also posses the largest repitoir of deflections guards and parries. they have the speed to block when nessecary and the strength, to plow thru defenses.
@darkblade
THANK YOU!
finally someone who has some GD sense.
i had to learn somethings about sword fighting to draw my manga
@darkblade
nice. i learned it for more combat reason, and i’m a huge fan of claymore & tuner katana dual wielding. and the sad part is i WTFstomp people using a shield and sword, and i was using that basis in this fight.
@screampaste
i forgot one part. link is nowhere near as strong as cloud. cloud cut pieces of steel and concrete into pieces with his own strength, MIDFLIGTH. while link’s most cannon strength is picking up a boulder AFTER he gets an uber strength multiplying item. on his own he is weak and pitiful, but with his strength bracelets he might come to be almost on par with cloud.
@VincentValentine
when i lift a claymore for the first time i said all anime characters using weapons like this are BS, those things arent easily wielded. real claymores are about 10-25 lb which doesnt seem like alot, but when your trying to swing it around its a different story, and katanas are the pinnicle of slicing capability. id like to give forging my own katana a shot one day. Did you have shield arm after after your first sword/shield sparring session? the first week of training i had sore wrists from chinese longsword forms and learning to parry.
@darkblade
no, after the first session of me using a sword and shield i said, quote: “how the hell does link do this? my arm feels like it’s made of silly putty!” then my instructor switched me to dual wielding and i immediately took favor to the claymore, i use it less than i use my katana dual wielding though, i use it mainly for pesky little people who hide behind a shield. and the katana i use is kinda….. different, its more of a render equipment than just plain slicing. basically mix a tuning fork and a katana and you have my sword.
[quote]……GRAAAAAAH!
you do not listen to reason do you?
THE MASTER SWORD PROVIDES NO MAGICAL PROTECTION FOR LINK!
SUPERNOVA IS NOT A GAMEPLAY MECHANIC! AFTER CASTING IT ON ALL MEMBERS OF MY PARTY SUPERNOVA DID 0 DAMAGE! [/quote]
Rage more, it makes it more fun to tell you why this is wrong. The master sword has been protecting Link since OoT, and to a lesser extent since aLttP where it reflected magic, and is directly stated to be a failsafe against misuse of the triforce itself. It protected Link from the power of an entire dimension in TP, Cloud cannot muster anything superior to that.
This shield argument is a gameplay mechanic, GJ. You even listed damage numbers. Supernova is terribly over-wanked by FF7 supporters, it’s nothing but an illusion that doesn’t even kill people who can be damaged by bullets.
[quote]yes, it is a gameplay obstacle, but it is still cannon. and no she does not, i have played and beaten the game 100% and have no recollection of her saying such a thing.
[/quote]
No, it isn’t, because we have a canon /cutscene/ which directly contradicts it. Also, play again, earlier in the game when you get the Ordon Sword and shield, Midna takes them, and tells you so, this is how Link is able to return to being a Wolf, too.
[quote]lets see, it can negate ANY powerup spell such as regen, shield, pretty much any spell that last longer than a few second. AND WILL YOU GET OFF THE MASTER SWORD THING, I”VE ALREADY EXPLAINED THATS FALSE!
[/quote]
So, it works on FF7 magic, which is small scale compared to magic on the master sword’s level. The sword is powered by the gods, as we see in WW, and it is a failsafe against their own power, the triforce, as stated in aLttP, which is a very powerful reality warping relic. This is a scale Dispel and Shield do not function on.
[quote]it doesn’t kill cloud due to PIS and no, he was wounded by a bullet after a long and severely weakening battle with sephiroth, who is unbeatable by anyone but cloud.
[/quote]
Wait, being tired makes you easier to wound? No. That’s not how it works. When Cloud got shot, the bullet ruined his day, because he is not durable. One swing from Link would kill him.
[quote]two words: PROVE.IT.
[/quote]
This is easy. Link in Ocarina of time chucked a thousand ton pillar at over 100 meters per second. It would take 4.5 gigajoules of energy at minimum to do this. This is how strong Link is.
Ganondorf is even stronger, and disarms Link in OoT.
In TP, Link wins a sword lock against Ganondorf.
In both examples, Link was under extreme force, and was not hurt. Cloud could not physicly damage Link.
Thus; Link is stronger.
[quote]*facepalm* *facetv* *facedesk* shield absorbs any non-physical attack and changes them so they heal the one who has shield casted on them. and link is no where near strong enough magically to break shield.
[/quote]
Stop using no limit fallacies, just because dispel and shield work on FF magic doesn’t make them effective on things more powerful. Shield has NEVER been exposed to an ice arrow, which is a much higher scale of power. (Freezing a Volcano is much more impressive than any of Sephiroth’s materia.)
Hell, Ganon destroys islands, and tanks attacks that *level* entire castles, and is totally unharmed by them, and the light arrows can hurt this guy. That is the scale Zelda’s magic arrows are on.
[quote]no he is not. a bullet would blow his F*cking brains out. and yes, shield would absorb any magic attack link has.[/quote]
Link in OoT was disarmed by a strike from Ganon who is physicly stronger than even himself, this should have crushed and liquified him. But it didn’t. Link is FAR too durable to be hurt by a bullet.
[quote]and i’m not even going into the shield and sword vs. two swords. although i will tell you no one used dual wielding back then because no one had the ability to master it.
[/quote]
This made me laugh, and exposed your ignorance of medieval sword fighting.
[quote]no, we’re not. considering the tiny link wouldn’t even be able to use a lot of the stuff from the other games he’s gonna die. nuff said.[/quote]
K, on this EXACT PAGE. Look at post #14, ADMIN says we use all abilities and showings of the character. Link gets everything, Cloud cannot POSSIBLY win. I’ve been gentle on him by only using one game. Do you have any idea how hard he rapes Cloud when you factor in PH’s time stop, the various magic armours, the giant’s mask, infinite magic, the four sword, ect?
“ALSO: Lulzinternettoughguys. Had you done that, you should have gotten your ass kicked, but maybe they play nice wherever you’re from.”
can’t believe i missed this. i’m from kentucky. and when he went to try and face off with me ALL my friends who were there stood up and he knew he wasn’t gonna win a 7-on-1 fight, no matter how big he was. (he was in fact, one foot taller and 190 pounds heavier than me, and he was scared of me and six of my friends who are a about 1/3 my size).
““ALSO: Lulzinternettoughguys. Had you done that, you should have gotten your ass kicked, but maybe they play nice wherever you’re from.”
can’t believe i missed this. i’m from kentucky. and when he went to try and face off with me ALL my friends who were there stood up and he knew he wasn’t gonna win a 7-on-1 fight, no matter how big he was. (he was in fact, one foot taller and 190 pounds heavier than me, and he was scared of me and six of my friends who are a about 1/3 my size).”
I had a laugh. Stop trying to pretend you’re some tough guy when you’re on a website arguing which fictional character would kill the other, it’s dishonest.
Anyway, FP AWARD FOAR LINK!
@screampast
i’m not pretending to be a tough guy. i don’t pretend to be one in real life either. but if you mess with me or my friends you’re gonna need a damn hospital, cause i don’t always fight clean.
and no, no FP award for link. all your evidence for why he would win has been debunked, unless you can provide more?
er “@screampaste” i mean.
“Wait, being tired makes you easier to wound?”
Yes, yes it does. As stress levels rise, the body becomes more and more susceptible to injury. Also a person tends to slow down and their movements become more erratic as they have to pout more effort into simpler tasks.
Try getting upstairs directly after running a marathon, see how much harder it is that it would be normally?
As to your “FInal fantasy magic is less impressive than LoZ magic” argument… I can’t really see how, after all FF magic tends to be shown in battle, where it looks impressive but doesn’t actually show what happens, due to game mechanics.
Consider the spells for what they are. Quake literally causes the ground beneath the enemy to explode, death summons the grim reaper to murder your foes (for some reason), toad/mini would work wonders on link, whose been show to be rather susceptible to shape-changing magics.
Shield guards against quake wonderfully, and this is the earth exploding beneath your feet, hardly a lower level of magic
@jwlynas
thank you. finally someone who’s using logic.
Well, ScreamPaste is a well spoken, erudite chap with a decent knowledge of his chosen subjects. He’s always fun to debate against/with.
….the master sword isnt an “anti magic” object, the triforce of courage grants some protection from curses and the like, but it dosent undo magic.