Suggested By ZomBninjasamurai
Two fortresses from very different worlds going against each other.
For this match, Echo base is in it’s moments before the Battle of Hoth state and Hogwarts is as of just before the Battle of Hogwarts.
Hogwarts may not destroy all of it’s bridges, and Echo Base may not collapse all of it’s tunnels, both must keep at least one available.
The opponents they will be testing themselves against will be the bugs of the Starship Troopers franchise.
The first wave will be ten thousand assorted bugs approaching from the same direction as the Empire and Voldemort’s Army respectively.
The second wave will be one hundred thousand, and the third if it is feasible that both could survive the second, will be one million.
Which is left standing?
This is a hell of a lot better than that disgraceful abomination that forfeited its right to call itself a factpile match-up, whether or not it’ll be on par with Last Year’s Siege match is up in the air.
Meantime, do I have any clarifications that Potter-world video game spells will be allowed for this since the Pre-Endor E.U is in play here?
I’d actually appreciate it if that were the case, truth be told.
I’m going to side with Echo Base for now. I’d like to see some more information on Hogwarts, so hopefully Hermit might be able to bring some useful information.
@Nomad
I’m still waiting on Major ZomB to clarify some things in regards to if Potter-world video game spells are also consented, and while I wish Side A the best of odds in putting up a hell of a fight if/when its clarified the Pre-Endor E.U’s in play for this*, know that I won’t hold back in here, okay?
1.) (It basically means that Dash Rendar will be there, more or less!)
“bugs of the Starship Troopers franchise.”
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Need more info, while the ones in the movie wouldn’t be that bad for ether, I seem to remember hearing that the ones in the book are a lot more powerful.
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As in “neither Echo Base Hogwarts have a chance in hell” Powerful….
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But I’ve never read the books myself, so like I said, need more info.
“Need more info, while the ones in the movie wouldn’t be that bad for ether, I seem to remember hearing that the ones in the book are a lot more powerful.”
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When we were talking about in on the forums. I believe ZomB said the same thing. So I’m going to assume it is the movie versions. But I guess we will have to wait for him to clarify.
Echo Base literally does not have enough ammunition.. I feel Hogwarts is more likely to last longer.
@Shgon
“by ZomBninjasamurai » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:27 am
I’m liking the Starship Troopers bugs idea. It also gives a good military balance without being particularly fantastic or technological. That said I’d probably have to go with the movie versions, as the book versions would annihilate either base within minutes.”
“by ZomBninjasamurai » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:32 am
Too tech oriented I think, Echo Base would have it’s way with them for quite awhile.
Anyways, I was thinking the First wave could be ten thousand assorted bugs, from Plasma Bugs to Hoppers. Each base gets five minutes of prep time, they will attack along the same approaches as their canon counterparts. Hogwarts cannot destroy all of it’s bridges, and Echo Base cannot collapse all of it’s tunnels. Second wave will be one hundred thousand, if either base could survive that. Third wave will be one million. ”
from the thread where we discussed this on the topia.
So I’m assuming those are the intended stats unless ZomB states otherwise.
Well in that case, I’ll have to side with Hogwarts for now.
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The animals the WW deals with on a daily basis are rather deadly.
Though I’d have more faith in Hogwarts chances if this wasn’t just the teachers and students… Like if it was Hogwarts from “the battle of Hogwarts”.
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Even just ten thousand is a lot of bugs…
True, but Hogwarts magic can do some major damage.
@GuardianAngel1911
“True, but Hogwarts magic can do some major damage.”
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True, but I’ve seen assessments of there only being like 300 students in all of Hogwarts…
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Like I said, even just ten thousand is a LOT of bugs.
@Shgon
Where did you find that?
I’m still waiting on Major ZomB to greenlight that the Hogwarts side is allowed to use the In-game spells.
Sometimes I wish we got some solid descriptions of Durmstrang in there by now.
Not like it would be the first time a small force held off a zerg rushing nummerically overwhelming force.
They could start setting up charm traps, use fiendfyre and their air supperiority to trim down the Bugs numbers. If they do Avada Kadavra that could give them an edge.
And there’s the whole magic means limitless attacks whereas sooner or later the Echo Base forces will run out of energy for their blasters
@GuardianAngel1911
“They could start setting up charm traps”
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Agreed, and they’ll need to start doing this right away.
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“use fiendfyre and their air supperiority to trim down the Bugs numbers. If they do Avada Kadavra that could give them an edge.”
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I think some of the bugs can fly, and as for the other… While true, it’s said in the books that it’s unlikely that a 4th year could use AK, and… 4 years out of 7 means a rather big part of their numbers…
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“And there’s the whole magic means limitless attacks whereas sooner or later the Echo Base forces will run out of energy for their blasters”
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True… But does Echo Base get their spaceships?
@Commander Cross
“Where did you find that?”
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A lot of places, I’ve also seen 1000 thrown around(which wouldn’t help them all that much more), but in the end it just comes back to the old “JKR is horrible with math”.
I don’t think either will make it past the first wave.. but Echo Base’s ammunition is likely to run out before Hogwart’s shield cracks. Although I doubt Echo Base can put out enough fire power to even slow that many bugs coming at them at once. The only thing that may save them is that the bugs must travel miles across the ice to Echo Base, where as the distance from the forest to the school grounds is extremely short for Hogwarts. So this might even come down to “How long does it take the bugs to crack the forcefield over Hogwarts? Is it longer than it takes them to just WALK to Echobase? Then Hogwarts wins. Is it not? Then Echobase wins.” Although from the looks of it.. both sides lose.
*Harry opens Room of Requirement*
“What the bloody hell are giant cans of bug spray doing here?”
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*Ron opens Room of Requirement*
“Hey ‘Mione, look at this!”
*holds up book titled ‘How to kill Giant Space Bugs’*
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*Hermione opens Room of Requirement*
“And I thought the Bug Zappers back home were huge”
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What I’m trying to say is, the Room of Requirement is a game breaker and should be regulated, else you will find me cracking jokes about it…
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*Harry opens Room of Requirement again, sees Superman*
“Hey, you’re Superman, that bloke from America!”
“Yes, and I was wondering why a door suddenly opened in my closet.”
“Well um, we have a bit of a problem with giant space bugs, can you help us?”
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The Professors of Hogwarts managed to erect a powerful barrier around Hogwarts, which would disintegrate anything that touches it.
Voldemort’s Army could not attack while the barrier was up, and Voldie himself had to go all out just to destroy the barrier.
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Aside from that, the Forbidden Forest itself is home to giant bugs (spiders) and fortune tellers (centaurs).
The lake has mermaids and a giant squid.
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Oh, wait…
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“Hogwarts is as of just before the Battle of Hogwarts.”
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This IS Hogwarts from “the battle of Hogwarts”….
Question for ZomB, does Hogwarts get the Voldemort’s forces?(I really doubt it, just felt it best to ask.)
are Plasma bugs the ones that one hit spaceships out of low orbit? if so both bases are bombed to oblivion in the first wave, regardless of distance or shields.
Echo base had dozens of y and x wing fighters, along with bigger ships used in the escape.
I say massive orbital bombardment is going to win the day.
“are Plasma bugs the ones that one hit spaceships out of low orbit? if so both bases are bombed to oblivion in the first wave, regardless of distance or shields.”
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The Hogwarts shields cover the entire castle like a dome.
And I don’t know how to measure Voldie’s enraged beam of doom against a conventional weapon.
At the very least his outburst can be likened to a tactical nuke, but I’m sure it’s higher than that, perhaps similar in power to the Particle Cannon in Command and Conquer Generals.
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Apart from the magical done however, Hogwarts still has the Room of Requirement.
After fleet glasses, MI mops up.
Sure the shield is unquantifiable but Voldy enraged has the force of a Bomb, voldy all out is many bombs most likely. But a constant barrage of Spaceship wrecking Red shit is gonna knock it down, maybe not before Echo is reduced to rubble and the Mon Calamari ships are shot down. Hogwarts survives longer but the Buggers win.
“Hogwarts survives longer but the Buggers win.”
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I’ll have to agree.
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I have to ask though, how can Fiendfyre help?
@Lieutenant
Its one of the few confirmed AoE attack spells on the Potter-world side, I believe Hermione has another in the basic Immobulus spell(check spelling if that’s right), and while its possible the Hogwarts side might be able to apply creativity to craft new spells, they probably won’t get the time to pull it off of their sweat glands, that’s for sure.
So if anyone’s getting the award then…1+ for the bugs?
’
1+ for the bugs.
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For some reason in these siege matches I always seem to find myself rooting of the one not actually in the running.
Hoooly shit I was just thinking of warrior bugs.. plasma bugs break this. Although Echobase might win just because much of it is underground and difficult to reach. They’d be taking pot shots in the dark while Hogwarts would probably go down after a few barrage.
Hogwarts goes down late 1st or early 2nd Wave.
Echo Base dies after barely surviving wave 2, gets swarmed in wave 3.
Wouldn’t Echo Base’s aerial assets be capable of taking out large numbers of bugs and defending the area before they run of ammo?
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That’s about all I can think of for the SW side as I don’t know how long their defense turrets will last against tens of thousands of bugs attacking at once.
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This match is a bit of a toss up to me, really…
Dash Rendar solos.
I pointed that out earlier soilder, that Echo base has wings of x wings and fighter ships for the big air superiority, and could keep them at bay like that.
Hogwarts could do some flight stuff, but I don’t think it’ll be as effective.
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“ Need more info, while the ones in the movie wouldn’t be that bad for ether, I seem to remember hearing that the ones in the book are a lot more powerful. “
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I suspect the match uses the movie bugs; neither side would survive the first wave otherwise. The book bugs were tech using and were the equivalent of energy cannon equipped tanks, which is why the lightest troops that could fight them were the power-armored mobile infantry. Regular troops even with anti-tank weapons were hopelessly outclassed, the book bugs would not have even wasted the energy to shoot at the movie rifleman, they would have just rolled over them “hand” to hand without even slowing down.
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“ I have to ask though, how can Fiendfyre help? “
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Feindfyre is like Darkover ‘clingfire’. It is much nastier than a napalm or hellfire missile attack in that the Feindfyre actually seeks out living targets to a degree.
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“ So if anyone’s getting the award then…1+ for the bugs? ’ “
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I do not think the bugs are eligible, from the description the winner is whoever lasts the longest, they are not expected to survive the bugs in the long run.
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While Echo base has the advantage of more fighters than Hoggwarts even with the reinforcements from the Battle of Hoggwarts and better protection in the air with the fighters and speeders being at least enclosed after some thought I think Hoggwarts would last a little (though not much) longer. Echo base cannot bring its theater shield down to ground level so the bugs are free to move on the base on the ground and the defenses are set for fighting armored vehicles not super fast moving bugs. If they had more Gatling blasters and less slow firing cannons they would have been better off. Except for the Falcon and a few other armed merchants the majority of full ships appeared to be bulk freighters used as troop transports, nothing that would swing the tide of battle. Being under snow is not a help either unless the movie bugs are especially vulnerable to cold since the bugs could tunnel though it easier than dirt.
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Hoggwarts is on a rock, has limited approaches even with the bridges up, and has a very nasty shield and sturdy spell reinforced stone walls. Bugs can tunnel even through rock eventually as shown in the movie but they are much slower at it than they would be with snow or dirt and are unlikely to waste the resources trying that unless it turns out to be a long term siege. The wands are slower firing, about like single action revolvers cocked with the thumb between shots in speed though area effect and multi effect spells can mitigate that to a degree. Fiendfyre low on the slopes should discourage bugs from climbing up them and bypassing the bridges. Plasma bugs would not be as effective as one would think with the angles involved, they would have trouble depressing their fire angle enough to hit the castle itself (they would have to be in the “moat” clinging to the appropriate angle of slope and would probably not have a shot except for a high angle one at the shield). Eventually the sheer number of bugs would win out though since the Potterverse people probably could not kill them fast enough.
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Just as an observation and not really part of the debate itself: the only way for either side to survive all the waves would be for the Rebels to evacuate to Hoggwarts and set up there. The combination of high defense and high firepower would probably win the day.
a handful of starfighters and some snow speeds aren’t going to stem the tide of ten thousand assorted bugs. Especially if there’s hoppers or other fliers in the group.
This isn’t Echo Base after everyone was fleeing, they have over 30 transports, fighter/bomber compliments, etc. I just feel I should point that out. They;ll be able to bomb the hell out of the narrow approach to Echo Base. The plasma bugs will likely decimate Hogwarts sometime within the first wave.
I meant they’d decimate Hogwarts shield, I believe once the shield goes down Hogwarts would commit all resources to killing the bugs.
Well the large orbital defence bugs cant hit either base going off what we see in the movie so theyre a non-factor. The big ones that spray plasma wouldn’t do much good against a magical shield I would think.
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Dont forget as well, the SW weapons are more set for one powerful shot rather than swarms of bullets we see in the movie. From the description in the movie unless that blaster shot hits something critical the user is dead as he doesn’t have the rate of fire the movie protagonists have to keep the bugs off balance.
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So overall my money would be on Hogwarts winning. The animated statues could probably deal with the smaller styles of bugs without the wizards even having to step in. Stone is not easy to damage when you get right down to it. The larger assault bugs are also horrendously vulnerable. They rely on Armour and sheer mass to survive, neither of which is of use against a kill spell, so if anything Hogwarts ground units can deal with large bugs even easier than SW ones can.
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The only thing SW has going for it is its ships, which from what I’ve seen aren’t exactly rigged to kill off giant swarms of attackers.
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I think both should see off the first wave with ease. I cant see either surviving the second, but i would expect hogwarts innate defences to slow the bugs more than hoths. There is something to be said of a medieval castle when you want to slow down the advance of a primarily melee opponent. The tunnels do none of that.
Also, Echo Base has three small outpasts with emplaced weapons outside of it. Including DF.9 anti-infantry betteries, which should have the power to kill any bug with a single shot, and the fire rate to kill many of them. Not to mention the dozens of repeating blasters, Also, it’s being underground will mean it will be able to withstand a bombardment from plasma bugs for much longer than Hogwarts.
Unfortunately the DF.9 does not seem to fire very fast though a hit would certainly wreak a bug.
From what we’ve seen in the movie plasma bugs can not bombard ground targets. So as i said, they are a non-factor.
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The DF9 has a decent rate of fire, for a SW blaster. There are also relatively few of them spaced quite far apart. The same applies to the repeater, managing as it does only a round or two a second. Compared to fully automatic weapons, that is pathetic. It being underground is actually a disadvantage, as are its trenches. Neither offer any protection against the swarm attacks of the bugs. Hogwarts walls and raised causeways are far more useful.
yeah, Killiks….Killiks….Star Wars insect race. Gotta love da Killiks, and how their numbers allow them to handle a war with the Chiss, and I’m pretty sure the Killiks aren’t as durable as the Bugs (could be wrong though) but I’m talking full blown war, Space forces and everything. If the Killiks could give a fair fight to Star Wars races and tech….Bugs should be able to overwhelm them. I could be overestimating the Killiks though.
I am fairly certain plasma bugs were used in an artillery capacity,or at least mentioned to do so in the television series, I believe Marauder as well. Also, the new mini plasma bugs from Invasion would still wreck Hogwarts shield in short order, as well as the castle itself.
How are you considering the Killiks anywhere near similar to the Starship Trooper’s bugs? Killik’s have SW level tech, of course they can handle a full blown war with another small faction of Star Wars.
“I am fairly certain plasma bugs were used in an artillery capacity,or at least mentioned to do so in the television series, I believe Marauder as well. Also, the new mini plasma bugs from Invasion would still wreck Hogwarts shield in short order, as well as the castle itself.”
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I dont recall the bugs ever bombarding ground targets. If you can get a scene posted them cool. Until then though, they cant. Invasion is also fan made, so i’m not certain how it fits into canon, though since this was specified to be movie bugs any introduced in invasion wont be counted.
“I dont recall the bugs ever bombarding ground targets. If you can get a scene posted them cool. Until then though, they cant. Invasion is also fan made, so i’m not certain how it fits into canon, though since this was specified to be movie bugs any introduced in invasion wont be counted.”
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Except, as suggester, I had meant for both those in Invasion, and Roughnecks to be included. Also, you may note, we’re still under 50. So yeah, they’re in this. Also, I don’t have a scene yet, but every single description you will find of Plasma Bugs describes them as ‘Anti-Air and Artillery’ That said, I will go ahead and watch all of the movies and the show and find the actual scenes.
Ah what fun when scenarios change.
Will that mean that Potter-world In-game spells + Items are also to be consented on the Hogwarts side in here?(as long as they don’t contradict the overall Canon outright, of course?)
“Ah what fun when scenarios change.”
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Hardly a change when it was what I had intended in the first place, it’s not like the match description had any note of what bugs being used now did it? Try and at least read the match description before you make sarcastic comments about it being changed.
@ZomB
don’t remember the Killiks having blasters the nest ships had stolen ion cannons but I’m talking the ground forces only. Pretty sure the ground forces didn’t have blasters, I may be wrong though and if I am my bad and the comparison doesn’t work.
COME ONE PEOPLEZ, but really, we need to specify which incarnation combatants are, or it will lead to confusion. I prefer the Book Bugs to the Movie Bugs, and I think it would be a stomp if the match was using the bugs from the novel. Nonetheless, we need more specification in the match descriptions in the future.
@Ford
ZomB said movie bugs and the two bases are stated in the scenario.
@Admiral
Major ZomB didn’t quite respond to my question in regards to the Potter-world side, though. T_T
What gives?
Aight, the opening of Rouckneck Chronicles shows Plasma Bugs being used as artillery. So, there ya go, an example of them being used as artillery.
@ZomBordeaux
“Except, as suggester, I had meant for both those in Invasion, and Roughnecks to be included. Also, you may note, we’re still under 50. So yeah, they’re in this. Also, I don’t have a scene yet, but every single description you will find of Plasma Bugs describes them as ‘Anti-Air and Artillery’ That said, I will go ahead and watch all of the movies and the show and find the actual scenes.”
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…The way you said that is making it really hard for me to see this as something other then an intended spit match.
“…The way you said that is making it really hard for me to see this as something other then an intended spit match.”
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Oh sorry, I meant the way you said this.
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“I am fairly certain plasma bugs were used in an artillery capacity,or at least mentioned to do so in the television series, I believe Marauder as well. Also, the new mini plasma bugs from Invasion would still wreck Hogwarts shield in short order, as well as the castle itself.”
I don’t see how. It went through five pages of discussion before actual suggestion, that was my opinion as a debater for others to refute, not as the suggester of this match. Maybe you should have said something on it’s suggestion thread if you believe it to be a spite match. I assure you it is nothing of the sort, any plasma bug will wreck anything in this match. I just think Echo Base will be able to eliminate the plasma bugs before they are eliminated by them.
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As a side not, going by the number of ships needed to evacuate the base, we can conclude it has between 3300-8700+ personnel.
@Shgon
If anything is done wrong on Major ZomB’s part, he failed to answer the question regarding if In-game spells for the Potter-world are consented or not! (The only confirmed time of facepalm this match will get from me for now, hope to mods its gonna remain that way, okay?)
Its a hell of a lot better than that abomination from May that was suggested by a Pussy-itus-infected nutcase who didn’t even have the decency to pit a company of psychopaths against the Daleks, I’m giving credit where its due.*
P.S: Not aimed at Warmaster Shaun of course, he means well, I leave it to anyone else to hazard a guess as to whom it was aimed at and let no true 40K fan try to cover for him in the process, okay?
I am sorry Cross, I must have missed your question. What was it?
@Major ZomB
Read the fine print in the bolding,Are the In-Game spells from the Potter-world Video Games Permitted, or NOT???
Depends on their level of canon, if their use in any way causes a contradiction with the higher canon sources (In Harry Potter I’m fairly certain Video Games are the lowest canon)
@Major ZomB
A lot of the spells in the games that were in play didn’t do anything to outright contradict canon, last time I checked.
Obviously speaking, Protego blocking AK is out because that part can be agreed to be Gameplay Mechanics, some of the other uses in some of the other spells might not be.
If you wish, I’ll have a look at the list to figure out which ones ought to be consented and which ones wouldn’t, am I permitted?
Question: What exactly ARE bugs from the Starship Trooper franchise?
starshiptroopers.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Bug_(film)
starshiptroopers.wikia.com/wiki/Tanker_Bug_(film)
starshiptroopers.wikia.com/wiki/Bombardier_Bug
starshiptroopers.wikia.com/wiki/Scorpion_Bug
starshiptroopers.wikia.com/wiki/Warrior
starshiptroopers.wikia.com/wiki/Hopper_Bug_(film)
starshiptroopers.wikia.com/wiki/Kamikaze_Ripplers
starshiptroopers.wikia.com/wiki/Blaster_Bug
starshiptroopers.wikia.com/wiki/Blister_Bug
starshiptroopers.wikia.com/wiki/Arkellian_Sand_Beetle
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Theres some examples
K, so it looks like Echo base will primarily focus on defending the shield generator, like they did in the film. However, nobody will be trying to evacuate this time, so the base will be fully fortified, manned, and gunned, making it pack a LOT more firepower than what is shown in the film.
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@ ZomB
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Thx for the links. Creepy stuff, though I would think a metroid would be TERRIFYING.
@Commander Cross
“Obviously speaking, Protego blocking AK is out because that part can be agreed to be ”
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Actually, with as many times as it was blocked in the books, I wouldn’t be surprised if it could.
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The time that makes me think that the most is this one.
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“Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows” Ch. 4 pg. 57.
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“More Killing Curses flew past Harry’s head from the two remaining Death Eaters’ wand; they were aiming for Hagrid. Harry responded with further Stunning Spells: Red and green collided in midair in a shower of multicolored sparks, and Harry thought wildly of fireworks, and the Muggles below who would have no idea what was happening“
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An AK blocked with nothing more then a Stunning Spell.
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If THAT can do it, then why couldn’t a shield charm?
@Shgon
I don’t know. (shrug)
All I do know for sure is that the Modern Potter-world is lacklustre in individual power levels compared to their more Medieval Ancestors if we were to judge on an overall basis, but the Modern Potter-world has gadgetry and other viable items to make up for that.
Although thanks for the quote, its been a while since I recalled reading on the Potter-world novels in general, I feel old now.
(smilie is at my expense!)
While this Protego variation is already in play and is canon, its possible that it can be used in the video games as well and even without the fact, its best not to underestimate it!
But honestly while this spell is a useful defensive Spell and may even be combined with Horriblis for potential effectiveness increase, that’s not the spell I was looking for in particular.
This on the other hand is more like it, its kind of like applying a Grenade Launcher shot if I gotta compare to firing a fully-charged Expulso, or in case I’m wrong, think of it as kind of like a less stable version of firing an AK-47 Assault Rifle, so to speak!
The Basic Confringo Blasting Curse might be more like what I am trying to describe in case the above is partially off the mark, if Reducto can be compared to a shakier version of a Rocket Launcher shot, this can be compared to a Grenade Launcher shot, either way no denying the fact of the matter that if any of the bugs get hit by the spells listed so far, they’re gonna hurt like a beyotch!
Can Bugs be confused?If they can, the Confundus Charm may be of use in this respect as well!
They might have mentioned something about an Exploding Potion, which can be used as a makeshift grenade or two, but considering that the potion by itself isn’t a spell but might be summoned, moot point is moot I feel.
There’s also the Area Spell for AoE spells to consider, Fiendfyre’s not alone in there so it may fear not, if its permitted!
Fiendfyre is also the spell that slitherin idiot used in the room of requirement I think, the one that caused the creeping fire that eventually killed him; if so it is already canon.
“ K, so it looks like Echo base will primarily focus on defending the shield generator, like they did in the film. “
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Just curious about why they would bother with defending the shield generator in particular since the theater shield is an umbrella shield with open sides meant to stop orbital bombardment, not ground forces.
“If THAT can do it, then why couldn’t a shield charm?”
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Goblet of Fire:
“Not nice, not pleasant, and there’s no blocking it. Only one person has ever survived the curse, and he’s sitting right in front of me.” – Mad-Eye Moody.
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Also from Goblet of Fire:
“Hermione manage to shatter the shield with a well placed Jelly-Legs Jinx, and Harry wobbled around the room until Hermione could find a counter-jinx.”
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Rowling is very inconsistent with her canon, what with AKs being blocked by lesser spells (doubtful, but I’ll give the benefit of the doubt because it was cast by weaker people than Voldie), and then mentioning in GoF that you can’t block it with any spell.
Roughneck Chronicles, which I have actually watched, directly contradicts movie canon so often it isn’t even funny. So which has precedence in your match?
We’re all agreeing that the Hogwarts shield is going to be destroyed. But I ask, do we have any proof that it would be destroyed at all?
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Voldie had to go all out just to break through it, and the Master Wand suffered because of his anger (it’s not his though, so there’s that).
If the professors would ever make another shield, I doubt Voldie could break through it again using the Master Wand.
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Also, the Room of Requirement.
The Room is nearly a no limits fallacy in that whatever the user is in need of, the Room will have it.
Food is an exception the Room will not give out food, instead it will direct the occupants to somewhere that has food.
So if Harry (the Room’s most common user) were to ever wish for something that would help them kill the bugs in large numbers…
Or if they wish for a sanctuary from the bugs….
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Crabbe is the only confirmed user of Fiendfyre, but it was stated that Hermione could also use it (but doesn’t want to) and I’m sure the professors would know how to cast it as well, if not control it.
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Fiendfyre is incredibly dangerous, it set an entire room (whose exact size is unknown but it was shown to be very big) ablaze in a matter of seconds and burned/destroyed everything it touched, even the soul inside a Horcrux.
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The fire is intelligent, and will take any form it so wants unless the caster is proficient enough to control it.
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The fire is a potent weapon against the bugs, even more so if its joined by other support spells (Imperio and Impedimenta comes to mind).
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The Slow Spell, simple enough to be learned by a fourth year yet still useful in that the target is slowed to a dead stop.
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Impervio, the Impervious spell, which makes the target impervious (incapable of being penetrated) to damage.
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The Imperturbable spell, which makes an object impenetrable, not even sound can pass through. Bombs are not an exception, they will bounce off before they explode, as in the case of Dungbombs.
Some spells that might be useful:
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Expulso
Pronunciation: /ɛkˈspʊlsoʊ/ek-SPUUL-soh Description: A spell that causes an object to explode. The force of the explosion may depend on the intent of the caster. Seen/mentioned: Used by a Death Eater in an attempt to capture Harry in The Deathly Hallows, it struck the table that Harry was standing behind, causing an explosion that slammed him into a wall with great force.
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No need to explain what this will be used for.
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Reducio
Pronunciation: /rɛˈdjuːsi.oʊ/re-DEW-see-oh Description: Makes an enlarged object smaller. Counter-charm to Engorgio. Seen/mentioned: Used in Goblet of Fire by Barty Crouch Jr (as Moody) to shrink the spider he used to demonstrate the Cruciatus Curse. Harry attempts the spell in the Deathly Hallows when practising with Draco’s blackthorn wand.
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May be used to reduce the size of the bugs
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Evanesco (Vanishing Spell)
Pronunciation: /ɛvəˈnɛskoʊ/EV-ə-NES-koh Description: Makes the target vanish. Seen/mentioned: Used in Order of the Phoenix by Snape to make Harry’s potions disappear from his cauldron. In addition, when Fred and George were showing off their puking pastilles, Lee Jordan cleared the bucket of vomit with the Evanesco spell. Notes: According to Minerva McGonagall, in Deathly Hallows, Vanished objects and organisms go “into non-being, which is to say, everything.”
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Well, the bugs vanish.
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Transfiguration can be useful as well, and can turn the bugs into ferrets and whatnot.
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I have read in here somewhere that a wizard can only cast spells at the speed of a single-shot pistol.
I disagree. If the movies are any basis (because the books can’t exactly give accurate measurements), then their speed and skill at casting spells can put them at the speed of a semi-automatic pistol in terms of how many spells they can cast per minute.
Vera Verto – used to turn animals into water goblets.
turning the bugs into giant glasses would be useful.
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also I don’t think the AK spell being blocked was discontinuity in Deathly Hallows, Harry had sacraficed himself activating the counter curse of sacrificial protection, it’s possible that because all Hogwarts students and staff and the Order of the Phoenix were under the effects of that counter curse their spells were able to cancel out what would normally be a more powerful spell. While this wouldn’t seem to be possible to cover all the Death Eaters, if you go back and look (don’t have the book on me right now) you’ll notice the Death Eater spells and Voldemorts spells fail to do any real lasting damage with even the body bind spell wearing off extremely quickly.
Hogwarts would have to spam their spells as fast as they can while inside the dome, because once it breaks they would be forced to retreat to the castle.
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The castle will hold indefinitely when sufficiently charmed (Impervious and Imperturbable spells, described earlier are prime candidates for slapping the castle with indestructible charms) but the defenders would have less chances of attacking the bugs due to the fact that not everyone can stick their wand out a window.
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I believe that Hogwarts can survive the first wave, a likely chance that they will live through the second wave, and be destroyed by the third wave.
I know we aren’t supposed to be doing this but…the Bugs for the factpile award, anyone?
“The castle will hold indefinitely when sufficiently charmed (Impervious and Imperturbable spells, described earlier are prime candidates for slapping the castle with indestructible charms) but the defenders would have less chances of attacking the bugs due to the fact that not everyone can stick their wand out a window.”
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Dont forget the castle does have innate spells. The structure itself is magically imbued from when it was constructed as part of its very design and there was all sorts of illusions placed on it afterwards. So they will be a factor too.
“ Roughneck Chronicles, which I have actually watched, directly contradicts movie canon so often it isn’t even funny. “
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That is because it is closer to the book than the “space above and beyond” retread that the movie was.
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“ We’re all agreeing that the Hogwarts shield is going to be destroyed. But I ask, do we have any proof that it would be destroyed at all? “
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It would take a lot of pounding (as in days of it) from the blaster bugs and the plasma bugs (if the plasmas can get the angle on it to actually hit it) to bring the shield down, no “one or two hits and it is down” like some seem to think. The shield is not some quick cast thing by one or two people, it is activating an epic level spell that a lot of preparation was put into ahead of time.
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Something that is a one hit kill however is a plasma bug getting ready to fire, if some broom mounted units can get within range they could easily kill the p-bugs and everything around them from the explosion with one ranged shot.
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Dont forget the castle does have innate spells. The structure itself is magically imbued from when it was constructed as part of its very design and there was all sorts of illusions placed on it afterwards. So they will be a factor too. “
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True. Just being able to see the castle at all and not just old rubble on the peak is something these ‘Hoggwarts Vs. X” matches usually fail to address, though in this case it could be that the ruin illusion is too narrowly targeted on ‘muggles’ and the bugs are not human and therefore not muggles or something along those lines.
Even if the illusion were in effect, as far as they’re concerned that is the point they are sent to capture.
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Do we have yields for what actually brought the shield down to begin with? I find it difficult to believe it’d stop sunstuff that can bring down ships from orbit for long if there’s literally hundreds of plasma bugs leveling their ass ends at the castle.
@Hermit
), it just that…. it’s not it not true.
“Rowling is very inconsistent with her canon, what with AKs being blocked by lesser spells (doubtful, but I’ll give the benefit of the doubt because it was cast by weaker people than Voldie), and then mentioning in GoF that you can’t block it with any spell.”
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Oh I knew of that quote(in fact I already had it typed up and was just waiting for someone to say “I thought it was unblockable?”
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The thing is blocked loads of times, mostly by just putting something between you and it, and I think that’s the only time it’s blocked by a spell… But why would a rock work, but not a spell?
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Then there’s(admittedly not the same point) things like 12 feet tall Hagrid wading through battles with AK happy DE and not dieing suggesting that it doesn’t even work on half-giants(and note: I don’t mean this in terms of this debate. This is likely because of the anti-magic resistance of giants, so I’m not saying that the bugs or immune to AK).
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It’s just that by the end of the books, the only things that stand out about AK that make it any different then the hundreds of other ways they can kill, is that it kills instantly on contact, and that it needs a lot of hate/mean it(I forget which) to use…
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The wizards just seem to do a lot of “OMGOMGOMG!!”ing for… not much reason really.
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It’s kind of like guns on a few British TV shows I’ve seen, that some how seem to think that they are the source of all evil…
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But honestly, the “unblockable” thing is just a plot-hole, but as there’s more times it was clearly blocked, then there are it just being called unblockable, I’d go with it being vary blockable myself.
“But why would a rock work, but not a spell?”
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Because a rock is a solid object anda spell isn’t?
I already know that AK can be blocked by solid objects, what I’m arguing against is the fact that it was blocked by a spell.
And the Avada Kedavra itself needs a lot of magical power behind it to work effectively; you can’t just point it at a person, say the words, and expect the person to die.
Moody has mentioned this in Goblet of Fire. “You can all point your wands at me and say the words, and I doubt I’d get so much as a nosebleed.”
Death Eaters, no matter how trigger happy they are, will not always have the power to do a proper AK. (Emphasis on not always, before you start arguing that what I’m saying is that all those AKs are underpowered)
That’s probably the reason why Hagrid survived, he was hit by an underpowered AK.
@Hermit
“I already know that AK can be blocked by solid objects, what I’m arguing against is the fact that it was blocked by a spell.”
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Going with that logic(aka:it can’t be stopped by magic)… That would mean that it IS a giants size that makes it not work(as anti-magic resistance is well… Magic), and so the bugs are safe from it…
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“That’s probably the reason why Hagrid survived, he was hit by an underpowered AK.”
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Actually we never saw him get hit by one, it’s just that… he’s 12 feet tall… A *Stormtrooper* could hit that.
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And the argument that “Well he was always hit by an underpowered AK”… Yes, not one of the dozens/hundreds(who knows) of DE’s could get off the one spell they likely practice in front of their mirrors at home at full power….
@Hermit
Sorry, guess I’m still a little sleepy. 
“(Emphasis on not always, before you start arguing that what I’m saying is that all those AKs are underpowered)”
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Still, even one should of been enough if magic was unable to stop it.
“That would mean that it IS a giants size that makes it not work(as anti-magic resistance is well… Magic)”
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You’re presenting a false dichotomy here. Have you considered other options? That they have some kind of anti-magic in their system? Or some kind of dispel field about them? Or that they have some kind of biological defense?
@Sauroposeidon
“You’re presenting a false dichotomy here. Have you considered other options? That they have some kind of anti-magic in their system? Or some kind of dispel field about them? Or that they have some kind of biological defense?”
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Have you considered… Reading my post? That’s what I’m saying they have….
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But if magic couldn’t stop AK, then an anti-magic enchantment(itself magic) wouldn’t work.
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But the thing is, as Harry didn’t die at the age of one, we know that magic CAN stop an AK.
“That is because it is closer to the book than the “space above and beyond” retread that the movie was.”
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I know, when you get right down to it the book and movie are two different franchises. However since the book is ruled out we have no problem in that respect. It will be a problem though between roughnecks and movie unless clarified.
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“It would take a lot of pounding (as in days of it) from the blaster bugs and the plasma bugs (if the plasmas can get the angle on it to actually hit it) to bring the shield down, no “one or two hits and it is down” like some seem to think. The shield is not some quick cast thing by one or two people, it is activating an epic level spell that a lot of preparation was put into ahead of time.”
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Dont forget the shield itself isn’t going to be bothered overly by heat. There are no molecules in it to be heated and weakened. This actually means plasma is going to be seriously disadvantaged in pounding down the shield as plasma based attacks rely heavily on heat damage.
““It would take a lot of pounding (as in days of it) from the blaster bugs and the plasma bugs (if the plasmas can get the angle on it to actually hit it) to bring the shield down, no “one or two hits and it is down” like some seem to think. The shield is not some quick cast thing by one or two people, it is activating an epic level spell that a lot of preparation was put into ahead of time.””
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I have an idea, lets draw more unfounded conclusions!
Also, I have to point out, Hogwarts only has five minutes of prep time. If that shield actually took alot of prep time as you say, whose to say they would even get it up?
“Going with that logic(aka:it can’t be stopped by magic)… That would mean that it IS a giants size that makes it not work(as anti-magic resistance is well… Magic), and so the bugs are safe from it…”
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Size likely has a part to play, but for the most part, I think it’s because of Hagrid’s tough skin that he’s so resistant to spells.
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Dragons are resistant to nearly all spells, but their one spell upon their eyes and they’re sent screaming in agony. We’ve never seen Hagrid get hit by a spell in the eye, but I’d bet it’s the same case.
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If that is so, then the bugs should be safe from the AK unless they were looking specifically at it (Cedric was looking at the spell when he was killed) or the spell was being aimed at the eyes in the first place.
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“Still, even one should of been enough if magic was unable to stop it.”
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*shrugs*
Hagrid was just lucky.
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“Also, I have to point out, Hogwarts only has five minutes of prep time. If that shield actually took alot of prep time as you say, whose to say they would even get it up?”
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Movie-wise, it was set up in the space of a few seconds, a minute at best.
Book-wise, about the same length of time.
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Five-minutes of prep-time eh? A lot can be done in that time, mostly preparing and strengthening the charms inside and on the castle to make it even more indestructible.
“Movie-wise, it was set up in the space of a few seconds, a minute at best.
Book-wise, about the same length of time.”
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There was alot of preparation before that though, I’m sure, getting everyone out of the school to cast it, making sure everyone knew it, etc.
@ZomBordeaux
“There was alot of preparation before that though, I’m sure, getting everyone out of the school to cast it”
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This part at least isn’t a problem.
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As this is a Vs, all of them, even the first years, will be fighting to the death.
Everyone didn’t cast it. a few of the teachers did from what i remember.
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Aside from that the statues holding the causeways could easily buy the required time.
“This part at least isn’t a problem.
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As this is a Vs, all of them, even the first years, will be fighting to the death.”
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Way to state the obvious and irrelevant. How on Earth does that effect the position of students?
@ZomBordeaux
“Way to state the obvious and irrelevant. How on Earth does that effect the position of students?”
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Mainly as I thought you were saying “get them out before setting it up” I saw after posting that you meant “Go outside to cast it”, but….
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Why are you even assuming they start inside?
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Also, can you cool it with the confrontational attitude.
“Why are you even assuming they start inside?”
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Because assuming they start outside is a much larger leap. It’s not like they have any knowledge of an impending attack, until five minutes before it begins. It’s the same for Echo Base.
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“Also, can you cool it with the confrontational attitude.”
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That’s not me being confrontational. That’s me pointing out that that’s irrelevant, and kinda obvious. If I was being confrontational, I’d be using expletives, and saying fanboy and wank alot.
@ZomBordeaux
“Because assuming they start outside is a much larger leap.”
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Actually there both pretty mush the same leap.
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“That’s not me being confrontational. That’s me pointing out that that’s irrelevant, and kinda obvious. If I was being confrontational, I’d be using expletives, and saying fanboy and wank alot.”
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While I am fan, the fact that I find a lot of the fun to be spotting the plot-holes I think would put me out of the running for the title of “fanboy”, and as I’ve just been arguing in this vary post that AK isn’t as unstoppable as a lot of fans think, I’m not sure how I could be accused of wanking it.
“Actually there both pretty mush the same leap.”
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Which is more common? All of Hogwarts denizens being in the castle, or outside of it? It’s hardly the same leap, I can’t think of really any time outside of quidditch matches that a majority of people would be outside of the castle.
@ZomBordeaux
“Which is more common? All of Hogwarts denizens being in the castle, or outside of it? It’s hardly the same leap, I can’t think of really any time outside of quidditch matches that a majority of people would be outside of the castle.”
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Well if it’s a sunny day a lot of them go for walks.
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But someone just needs to look up where they were “just before the Battle of Hogwarts.” and we would be making any jump.
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Though… “Hogwarts is as of just before the Battle of Hogwarts.”, well.. That would actually mean just before the fight actually started, so really the shield would already be up.
“and we would be making any jump.”>and we wouldn’t be making any jump.
“Though… “Hogwarts is as of just before the Battle of Hogwarts.”, well.. That would actually mean just before the fight actually started, so really the shield would already be up. ”
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I can honestly say when suggesting this, it was not what I meant. I had meant just after the Order arrived. So they would have the extra manpower without any unfair pre-preparation.