Suggested by Sauroposeidon
Jango Fett in the Slave I and Boba Fett (Star Wars) in the Slave II face off against Star Trek‘s USS Defiant in planetary orbit.
If any vessels leave the orbital range of the planet they are considered to have left the battle field.
The planet they are fighting over is a world which could easily be mistaken for Saturn.
Who would win?
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FIRST
What kind of weaponry do they both have? I like Boba and Jango but something tells me their not gonna win
Well, interesting to see intentional nerfs to ST’s warp strafing tactic.
@Cananatra
“Well, interesting to see intentional nerfs to ST’s warp strafing tactic.”
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Well if you just you have to see it through the old “SW VS ST” war, just think of it this way…
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If they weren’t emitting the Defiant was more powerful then ether of the Slave’s, there wouldn’t be two of them in this fight.
If they weren’t emitting the Defiant was more powerful then ether of the Slave’s, there wouldn’t be two of them in this fight.
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Or… They wanted to see Star Trek lose. Badly. However, that is for Sauro to tell us.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah-C3rFHOuU
@TheSorrow
“Or… They wanted to see Star Trek lose. Badly. However, that is for Sauro to tell us.”
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Well there’s that…. But I normally try not to assume right of the bat that the match suggester isn’t trying to have Link give a cannon a blowjob….
“But I normally try not to assume right of the bat that the match suggester isn’t trying to have Link give a cannon a blowjob….”>But I normally try not to assume right of the that that the match suggester is trying to have Link give a cannon a blowjob….
I swear this is like the third or fourth Slave I match I’ve tried to suggest. Glad one finally got accepted =D In all honesty.. this was an attempt to get Slave II up on Factpile and nothing more. It’s one of my favorite ships from Star Wars despite the fact that it belonged to what I feel is a character that gets WAY too much love. Slave II, by the way, is NOT a firespray class, and looks NOTHING like Slave I. It is also a lot cooler than Slave I.
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starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Slave_II
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I picked Defiant because I wanted something that was able to keep up with the Slaves.. but it’s got a lot more fire power thanks to its intended missions, and is much larger. The two smaller craft should have enough dirty tricks, however, to make this an interesting match to see who out smarts who. I don’t know -that- much about the Defiant as far as technobabble goes. I’ve seen it fight a lot, and I face off against people who use them in Star Trek Online with my carrier a lot.. but that’s about it.
Ah, good a time as any to ask, is Star Trek Online actually any good?
@Sauroposeidon
The Slave I got blown up in SW:TCW so it can’t be it.
“Slave II, by the way, is NOT a firespray class, and looks NOTHING like Slave I. It is also a lot cooler than Slave I.”
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…I thought that it was Boba’s ship in ESB(you know, the one in the picture)…
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What’s the name of the one in ESB then?
Which leads into a weird rule question, that I doubt would come up in many none SW matches.
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On the Greedo/Greedo “the Elder” deal.
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If says “X Vs Y”, and X is later reconed into Z…. Who’s in the fight?
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The one the OP says? Or the one the match suggester thought it was at the time?
“Ah, good a time as any to ask, is Star Trek Online actually any good?”
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End game favors DPS ships heavily, as Borg cubes have a one shot kill that ignores anything you can do in defense and you’re timed. Otherwise, it’s like EVE but not boring, with some WoWish elements like abilities. Facing is a big deal, as cruisers can unload with both fore and aft phaser banks in a broad side.. but assault vehicles like Defiant need to be facing forward due to their deisng. So it plays more like a classic ship game because of that as opposed to EVE’s “turrets can hit anywhere” lazy ass set up. I really like using my carrier in PvP.. but because of how difficult it is to be as useful as the DPS ships like the Defiant I find it being tedious in PvE.
“What’s the name of the one in ESB then? The Slave I got blown up in SW:TCW so it can’t be it.”
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The ship in ESB is the Slave 1. In ST:TCW, Slave 1 was severely damaged; not totally destroid. Obviously sometime between then and ESB he repaired it. I wouldn’t be surprised if Slave 1 pops up in TCW again for that matter.
@OriginalA
“The ship in ESB is the Slave 1. In ST:TCW, Slave 1 was severely damaged; not totally destroid.”
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I’d need to watch the episode again, but I think “field of rubble” counts as “totally destroyed” myself.
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There’s a point where “repairing” means “building a new ship”.
Defiant takes this. The defiant is the first real starfleet warship and can go toe-to-tow with cruisers. That’s a lot of firepower and shielding.
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The Slaves, as far as I know, is a smuggler ship with lots of trick but not a brawler in any sense.
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A nice montage of the defiant in action: youtu.be/50d18pM4Rec
More interesting facts- the Defiant has a cloaking device and tractor beam. That should be an issue for the Slaves should they try to get evasive.
en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Defiant_%282370%29
Defiant would take this one easily. A new-tech destroyer that gives light cruisers a run for the money would not have much trouble against two police corvettes.
“ What’s the name of the one in ESB then? The Slave I got blown up in SW:TCW so it can’t be it. “
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It’s just another Firespray and was also named ‘Slave I’ like the first one. Boba Fett doesn’t start using the Pursuer class ship until after he recovers from the sarlacc.
Slave II does have a large Ion Cannon on it, for the record.
Finally was able to get back into STO just today. (recently had a older PC that couldn’t push it) The game is amazing, more so the ship based combat. I admit it’s been awhile but I’m doubting that they changed the ground combat from what it was a few months back.
I feel the ground combat is slightly lacking.. but the ship combat is a lot of fun. Like I said. It feels like EVE Online but not boring.
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Also, the anti-bot bullshit at the bottom where I have to type in some fucking company’s motto so that I will absolutely be sure to remember it and NEVER buy their product? That’s bullshit. Grade A. Pure. Steaming. Bullshit. With a black belt in the fine art of Bullshido. Worthy of a first place ranking on the show Bullshidol. It is so polished, and so composed of such high grade bullshit that it really does deserve to be put in a museum as the reason why aliens burned our civilization to the ground when they found us. I don’t know why you put that in, Admin, but I’d like to just make it perfectly clear.. That really kinda sorta bugs me! >_<
There’s no way I’m going to be able to really get into a debate when I have to pause my string of thought in order to type “Free GoPayment Card Reader” just to post something….
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This is a really, REALLY dumb thing to have on a debate site that doesn’t even HAVE that many bots popping by(none that I’ve seen, but I might of missed them).
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Yes there’s a troll problem, but this wont help any.
I JUST HAD TO WATCH A FUCKING COMMERCIAL TO BE ABLE TO POST HERE!
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Admin, you better be getting a shitload of money for this…
Complains about having to watch a commercial to post…. posts to complain about having to watch a commercial to post.
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Uh huh. Maybe you should just post when you have something relevant to say or don’t mind watching commercials when you want to post something that doesn’t have relevance.
I did have something relevant to say, and then I stopped caring when I had to watch a Speed Stick commercial to be able to say it and decided to complain about that instead.
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Now said issue is fixed
Oh good the Human Verification thingy is gone. I wonder what that was all about.
admin trying something new?
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I probably wouldn’t have cared as much if it had just been a picture ad with a phrase in it that I had to type in, instead of that I had to click play on a commercial before it would give it to me.
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I didn’t like that…
If we just go off the official book figures (the Technical Manuals vs Incredible Cross-Sections), the Slaves squish Sisko like a bug.
www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html
Of course, that just reeks of laziness…
…This isn’t Starfleet Jedi, noone here tries to wank ST firepower to SW levels, why does this match exist?
The ICS book giving those numbers inflates them to the point that they don’t groove with what we see on screen. It’s not really usable because of that. If they weren’t trying to make a POLICE CRUISER fire nuclear blast level bolts then one might have a case but.. but at this point the book looks like an intentional troll.
I haven’t see anybody take the ICS seriously since SW:TCW came out.
“The ICS book giving those numbers inflates them to the point that they don’t groove with what we see on screen. It’s not really usable because of that. If they weren’t trying to make a POLICE CRUISER fire nuclear blast level bolts then one might have a case but.. but at this point the book looks like an intentional troll.”
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A. They’re the only canon concrete explicitly stated numbers, ignoring them IS ignoring canon. B. Calcs on the seismic charge put it alone at being far beyond just about anything in Star Trek. C. Star Trek has lower yields unless you decide to use only the absolute lowest calculations available for Star Wars, or you’re on StarfleetJedi.
Also, I never said anything about ICS in my original post, but in terms of firepower, Star Trek is pretty shit, you’re putting a ‘verse who is about on par with Halo in terms of firepower against a ‘verse thats about on par with Warhammer 40k.
Mmmmk, triple post, but this has been bothering me the entire time, why does the image show two Firespray ships? Slave II was not a Firespray, it was a Mandalorian ship.
SW canon goes movies>TV>the rest of the EU.
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As the ICS is refuted by not just the movies, but even more clearly by SW:TCW, is numbers are non-canon.
Which ICS book are you talking about for the figures the first one or the second one? Because the first one doesn’t have weapon calcs at all, and the second one’s calcs are apparently still being debated.
and by first I mean the one written my West not Saxton.
“As the ICS is refuted by not just the movies, but even more clearly by SW:TCW, is numbers are non-canon.”
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No numbers are stated in the movies, or TV so your statement is pointless. Any evidence shown can be easily disregarded since almost all weapons in Star Wars have multiple settings for intensity, and we cannot claim to calculate accurately off of alien materials with unknown variables. So yeah…
“As the ICS is refuted by not just the movies, but even more clearly by SW:TCW, is numbers are non-canon.”
Actually it seems lucasarts holds a different view on that.
“The Cross-Section stats with regard to firepower are considered canon.”
boards.darkhorse.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18339&start=75
Check page 6, 9th post
Actually, nevermind, I am wrong, they did mention actual yields in Star Wars: The Clone Wars that one time, when they described missiles used for on-planet combat (Not even in space) as being 100 Megaton.
“Actually it seems lucasarts holds a different view on that.
“The Cross-Section stats with regard to firepower are considered canon.”
boards.darkhorse.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18339&start=75
Check page 6, 9th post”
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Well then. I’m just gonna go and show that to every other Star Wars debate on the site, and watch the FP awards flow.
the ICS yields are so stupid, that even if they were considered canon, they’d only get laughed at more. it’s literally having an outside fanboy source write whatever yields he wants that end up not coinciding with anything visual or written and allowing them to be canon…….
“the ICS yields are so stupid, that even if they were considered canon, they’d only get laughed at more. it’s literally having an outside fanboy source write whatever yields he wants that end up not coinciding with anything visual or written and allowing them to be canon…….”
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Hey, look, someone whining about ICS… Shocking. Read some of the comics, or even some books, those numbers can be supported by in universe material. Besides, it’s pretty irrefutable now, since Leland Chee said it, thats essentially the word of god for Star Wars.
“A. They’re the only canon concrete explicitly stated numbers, ignoring them IS ignoring canon. B. Calcs on the seismic charge put it alone at being far beyond just about anything in Star Trek. C. Star Trek has lower yields unless you decide to use only the absolute lowest calculations available for Star Wars, or you’re on StarfleetJedi.”
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A. It’s both canon that Slave II exists and does not exist. If you pull the debate in to yet another canon discussion you know exactly what will happen. We’re not playing Schrodinger’s Canon right now, Zomb. The ICS has anti-personel vehicles letting off city wiping blasts at a bajillion rounds a second when we never see anything approaching that.. anywhere.. Star Wars was doing just fine before that nonsense, with man portable weaponry such as E-Webs being classified as “anti-air.” The ICS is just bad comedy.
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B. I think ST probably has stuff stronger than that seismic charge. It was cool but it didn’t seem THAT impressive. I have no doubt that if it hit the Defiant, though, it would be a very bad day for the Defiant.
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C. It’d not like I’m pitting a Frigate against the Defiant here, dude. Chill your jets.
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“Check page 6, 9th post”
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I don’t see how this helps your cause. No one ever said it isn’t part of the canon. It’s just not part of the main canon. At best it is only canon to itself and whatever few things you can find which go along with it. But it is not canon to anything I have seen in the movies and games. So it’s kind of pointless to even bother with it.There are tiers of canon. Slave II being an excellent example of this. It never was, if you go by movie canon. Boba is dead. If you go by the EU, Boba escaped against all odds and thus Slave II was born. You can’t say both are equally canon. If you want a debate where the ICS is usable, you must have a match which explicitly states that the ICS is being used, because it goes against the grain of so much that is Star Wars.
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I feel the Defiant’s biggest problem in this match is that the Slaves can fire off axis, with Slave I able to vertically rotate its guns, and Slave II able to horizontally rotate its ion cannon. A weapon which I think would render the Defiant’s shields useless. Or perhaps it might even do worse.
” “Actually it seems lucasarts holds a different view on that.
“The Cross-Section stats with regard to firepower are considered canon.”
boards.darkhorse.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18339&start=75
Check page 6, 9th post”
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Well then. I’m just gonna go and show that to every other Star Wars debate on the site, and watch the FP awards flow. ”
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Considering the cross section stats canon along with the more reasonable (or perhaps even a touch low) SW:TCW along with the visuals in the movies and the series just amounts to redefining the power terms (and inconsistently at that) not the power levels themselves. They can call something uberultragoogleplexton in power but if it causes an explosion of a kiloton or less in canon visuals it is still a kiloton or less effect and canonizing crazy troll numbers is meaningless when comparing units across universes where both do not share the power unit name inflation.
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The usual cry of “variable power levels!” does not work either, if the people using those ‘variable’ weapons and shields are too incredibly stupid to ever use them at full power even in the most dire circumstances where it means their survival or death then they will STILL be too stupid to use them at full power against Star Trek or any other foe.
Sorry about the double post, the site does not seem to be refreshing properly and some things seem to only show up after a post and not on a regular refresh or I would have included this in my previous post.
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“ I feel the Defiant’s biggest problem in this match is that the Slaves can fire off axis, with Slave I able to vertically rotate its guns, and Slave II able to horizontally rotate its ion cannon. A weapon which I think would render the Defiant’s shields useless. Or perhaps it might even do worse. “
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Several times Federation ships have used ion beams to charge the drained power systems of the recipient, though they do occasionally try them against unknown ships (like the early Borg encounters) to see if they have any other effect, like a weakness of some sort to them. Ion beams do not damage or bypass Star Trek shields like they do Star Wars ones, they only have their straight DEW effect at best and are a good source of energy at worst. The turbolasers or blasters on the police ships would probably have more effect on Defiant than the ion beam would.
Ah, I don’t remember that. Well at least there is still the punch it has, assuming it doesn’t just make the shields glow extra bright.. does the Defiant have shields? I know many ships in DS9 do not have them or do not use them for whatever reason. I can’t recall if it does. I have been just assuming it has them.
” It’s both canon that Slave II exists and does not exist. If you pull the debate in to yet another canon discussion you know exactly what will happen. We’re not playing Schrodinger’s Canon right now, Zomb. ”
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… Uhh, when was the Slave-II ever non-canon? You’re just gonna blatantly disregard the fact that they are the only explicitly stated canon firepower numbers?
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@BC, I just quit reading everything you wrote when I saw that you were using a childrens cartoon that has contradicted the movies more than any EU item EVER. Don’t be a dumbass. Kilotons? Seriously? I know a troll when I see one. Do you even watch TCW? They had small anti-tank walkers destroying CAPITAL SHIPS, thats perfectly reasonable.
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“The usual cry of “variable power levels!” does not work either, if the people using those ‘variable’ weapons and shields are too incredibly stupid to ever use them at full power even in the most dire circumstances where it means their survival or death then they will STILL be too stupid to use them at full power against Star Trek or any other foe.”
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This is too stupid to respond to. The only things we could possibly use to calculate firepower is the destroying of asteroids, of which it makes no sense to waste extremely large amounts of power upon, and we do not know their composition either. Oh look, apparently it wasn’t too stupid to respond to.
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“I don’t see how this helps your cause. No one ever said it isn’t part of the canon. It’s just not part of the main canon. At best it is only canon to itself and whatever few things you can find which go along with it. ”
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So, are you saying every piece of Star Wars EU creates it’s own little canon apart from the main universe? Because it doesn’t.
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” If you want a debate where the ICS is usable, you must have a match which explicitly states that the ICS is being used, because it goes against the grain of so much that is Star Wars.”
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Hurr durr, I don’t want Star Wars to win so I am barring part of it’s canon. If I had a nickel…
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“B. I think ST probably has stuff stronger than that seismic charge. It was cool but it didn’t seem THAT impressive. I have no doubt that if it hit the Defiant, though, it would be a very bad day for the Defiant.”
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Just go calculate it off of an average real asteroid of that size, it’ll put it well beyond the power of the most powerful weapons of Star Trek that aren’t tech of the day.
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“The ICS has anti-personel vehicles letting off city wiping blasts at a bajillion rounds a second when we never see anything approaching that.. anywhere..”
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I can only assume you’re speaking of the same Walker that a small group of destroyed Capital Ships in TCW, going by that logic, I see no problem with the ICS numbers.
@ZomBordeaux
“Actually, nevermind, I am wrong, they did mention actual yields in Star Wars: The Clone Wars that one time, when they described missiles used for on-planet combat (Not even in space) as being 100 Megaton.”
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Yes, we’re told the missiles are 100 Megaton, we then see one explode… And well…
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It’s a REALLY good argument that “100 Megaton” means something REALLY different in a galaxy far far away…
Also, in regard to BC’s ‘kiloton’ comment, you yourself were speaking of using TCW numbers, and you say kiloton? You do realize even in TCW they talked about 100 megaton GROUND WEAPONS, so you’re gonna try to tell my that capital ships can’t match ground warfare weapons?
anychance you can find the clip of the missles exploding? because then we can do a calc on the difference between what they call it(100 megatons) and what it is in our terms and scale back the ICS FiGUreS accordingly. although that’d be more of an ass move than bringing about credible calculaitons….
“Yes, we’re told the missiles are 100 Megaton, we then see one explode… And well…”
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If I recall they never actually show the impact site, nor do they actually say the explosion was from the 100 MT missiles. Furthermore, how can you judge an explosion on such an alien planet?
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“It’s a REALLY good argument that “100 Megaton” means something REALLY different in a galaxy far far away…”
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Oh god, seriously? It would defeat the purpose of using familiar terms in an alien universe if they have different meanings, and is just another excuse to say Star Wars is weaker than canon numbers and dialogue point to.
Actually, now that I recall, you Dunstan were involved in a discussion on the 100 MT missiles on Spacebattles, and you completely disregarded this argument there as well. I expect no less here, I only must ask that if you’re going to visit debating sites, don’t be so stubborn in your beliefs that you cannot accept logical arguments.
“… Uhh, when was the Slave-II ever non-canon? You’re just gonna blatantly disregard the fact that they are the only explicitly stated canon firepower numbers?”
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In the main cannon, Boba Fett dies before he can get a hold of Slave II
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And yes. Yes I am. We already can judge how strong blaster cannons of that size are anyways, since we SEE Slave I in combat, along with various other fighter craft.
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“So, are you saying every piece of Star Wars EU creates it’s own little canon apart from the main universe? Because it doesn’t.”
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You know there are tiers of canon. If it contradicts what we see then there’s no reason to use it unless a match specifically states we should be using it. I see no reason to include it in this match. Maybe if they were fighting something like the Devil Gundam, sure, but I have no inclination to include something which completely goes against any quote or clip which can be provided right now. I think the match as it is is a fair one.
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“Hurr durr, I don’t want Star Wars to win so I am barring part of it’s canon. If I had a nickel…”
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Except Slave II is one of my favorite ships in fiction, and the Defiant is often used in match suggestions I make in order to just give an opponent for something I want to show off. This just happens to be the first match I’ve suggested with the Defiant that’s been used. You’re making wild assumptions, Zomb.
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“Just go calculate it off of an average real asteroid of that size, it’ll put it well beyond the power of the most powerful weapons of Star Trek that aren’t tech of the day.”
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You used the term “just about anything”. Trek is full of wonky shit that’s well ahead of it. You can backtrack on the statement if you want.
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I can only assume you’re speaking of the same Walker that a small group of destroyed Capital Ships in TCW, going by that logic, I see no problem with the ICS numbers.
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ICS states each laser bolt from the Firespray class deals over a kiloton. It’s blasters deal over 100 tons of explosive force PER bolt. While I was exaggerating to show my annoyance, a single strafing run by a firespray class wouldn’t take down whatever bad guys the cops are after, they’d obliterate the city, or at least a big chunk of it, they’re supposed to protect.
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I’m also unfamiliar with the walker. I don’t watch TCW, unless it’s something I missed from the original microseries.
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“anychance you can find the clip of the missles exploding? because then we can do a calc on the difference between what they call it(100 megatons)”
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Perhaps it was heavy artillery style intercontinental ballistic missiles? Unless we know what kind of missile it was then anything we find shy of the biggest, baddest bunker busters they have would be useless. There’s also no reason to believe space use missiles would be stronger with out a given statement from the canon.
“ICS states each laser bolt from the Firespray class deals over a kiloton. It’s blasters deal over 100 tons of explosive force PER bolt. While I was exaggerating to show my annoyance, a single strafing run by a firespray class wouldn’t take down whatever bad guys the cops are after, they’d obliterate the city, or at least a big chunk of it, they’re supposed to protect.”
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The only of these original ships we EVER see are guarding a Maximum security city, they are extremely rare, and I doubt when they were built there was any intention of them coming anywhere near any civilization aside from Oovoo IV. A Prison asteroid full of some of the worst criminals in the galaxy. It makes plenty of sense to guard it with extremely powerful ships.
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“You used the term “just about anything”. Trek is full of wonky shit that’s well ahead of it. You can backtrack on the statement if you want.”
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I meant any ship used by any main faction of Star Trek. IE; Borg, Klingon, Federation etc.
“The only of these original ships we EVER see are guarding a Maximum security city, they are extremely rare, and I doubt when they were built there was any intention of them coming anywhere near any civilization aside from Oovoo IV. A Prison asteroid full of some of the worst criminals in the galaxy. It makes plenty of sense to guard it with extremely powerful ships.”
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What the hell are they going to be shooting that they need to be putting out enough fire power to punch holes in the damn prison? We don’t Slave I ever throwing that kind of fire power around. While it is an impressive ship, you will not convince me that fighter craft are throwing around that level of fire power willynilly unless we see it as an actual, usable feat.
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“I meant any ship used by any main faction of Star Trek. IE; Borg, Klingon, Federation etc.”
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I’d argue for the Borg in that case.. but I know they got beat with the nerfbat for a fortnight in Voyager down to a level that I can’t really say anything about. Yet another reason I strongly dislike that series. *sigh*
“What the hell are they going to be shooting that they need to be putting out enough fire power to punch holes in the damn prison? We don’t Slave I ever throwing that kind of fire power around. While it is an impressive ship, you will not convince me that fighter craft are throwing around that level of fire power willynilly unless we see it as an actual, usable feat.”
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Those criminals were very valuable to some, crimelords of Star Wars can field large fleets if need be, these ships would likely be forced to combat ships much larger than them. The likes of Jango Fett was sent to recover a prisoner there, it’s best to be safe than sorry, I imagine even coming near the place was illegal and punishable by destroying your ship with you in it. Besides, with Star Wars shields, ship to ship combat necessitates incredible firepower. Also, it seems obvious that Jango would modify the Slave by putting a lower yield cannon on it since it would be fulfilling a much different role in his use, likely being forced to fight near population centers, it is not in the best interest of any bounty hunter to cause massive collateral damage and get the Republic after them.
“Also, it seems obvious that Jango would modify the Slave by putting a lower yield cannon on it since it would be fulfilling a much different role in his use, likely being forced to fight near population centers, it is not in the best interest of any bounty hunter to cause massive collateral damage and get the Republic after them.”
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He actually made his ship more powerful. However, let’s say he toned down the fire power as you suggest. This still renders the ICS useless for this match. Now what do we use? Again.. I point to the movies, where we see it fight. Where we see vessels of comparable size. Military vessels mind you, not police cruisers, use their weapons. These are the best sources of information for understanding the firepower on Slave I & II.
“In the main cannon, Boba Fett dies before he can get a hold of Slave II”
Source?
“If it contradicts what we see then there’s no reason to use it unless a match specifically states we should be using it”
Where was this treatment of contradictions stated as part of star wars canon?
“And yes. Yes I am. We already can judge how strong blaster cannons of that size are anyways, since we SEE Slave I in combat, along with various other fighter craft”
So when were your viewpoints deemed by lucas arts to be superior to their own empoyees on star wars canon?
“…the laser cannons being mounted into the open skeletal frames required bracing and recoil-dissipation casings that would have withstood explosions measured in the giga-tonnage range. Anything less, and a single shot fired in battle would rip a destroyer or battle cruiser in two, a victim of its own lethal strength.”
Slave ship pg 248
Yup was only the evil ICS that mentioned big yields in the star wars universe.
“Source?”
-…..return of the jedi movie…..when he died….
“Source?”
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Do you not have the movies?
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“Where was this treatment of contradictions stated as part of star wars canon?”
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We never see vessels of that size or guns in that size range pump out that kind of fire power. Ever.
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“So when were your viewpoints deemed by lucas arts to be superior to their own empoyees on star wars canon?”
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… Are you trying to be a troll? Or did you actually misread my statement? Perhaps it was confusing, so let’s try this again. I don’t see any reason to include the ICS because it doesn’t groove with what we actually see.
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“Slave ship pg 248″
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That’s clearly not about the firespray. If you want a vague quote to be useful, you need to show how it pertains to the match outside of “something else has high yields in SW” because, after watching a god damned space station blow up a god damned planet, why would we ever think anything in SW could be powerful? Right? Right bro? AMIRIGHT? Right? C’mon guys?! =D !!! Oh teh noez. Something has powerful bracings in star wars. What ever will I do with my argument of “We don’t see that kind of crap on screen” now? You’ve so clearly refuted my statement that the ICS doesn’t groove with most of the canon, that I must surrender now.. heheh. Nice try though, Voel. Be sure to keep that quote in handy, though. I’m sure it’ll be useful at some point in time. Just.. not in this debate.
@ZomBordeaux
“If I recall they never actually show the impact site, nor do they actually say the explosion was from the 100 MT missiles. Furthermore, how can you judge an explosion on such an alien planet?”
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If that explosion was 100 MT, they’d all of been dead. Rather silly for the show to talk about one type of missile, only to have another be used. And that last point is just stupid.
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“Oh god, seriously? It would defeat the purpose of using familiar terms in an alien universe if they have different meanings, and is just another excuse to say Star Wars is weaker than canon numbers and dialogue point to.”
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I said “argument” not “fact”, and it’s better then your “you can’t judge an explosion on such an alien planet”.
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“I only must ask that if you’re going to visit debating sites, don’t be so stubborn in your beliefs that you cannot accept logical arguments.”
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Read your own post, take it to heart.
“…..return of the jedi movie…..when he died….”
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He got swallowed by the Sarlacc, something we know to take years to digest people, so no, he did not die in that movie. I have never understood people that say he died in that movie when C-3PO clearly says it digests you for thousands of years.
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“He actually made his ship more powerful. However, let’s say he toned down the fire power as you suggest. This still renders the ICS useless for this match. Now what do we use? Again.. I point to the movies, where we see it fight. Where we see vessels of comparable size. Military vessels mind you, not police cruisers, use their weapons. These are the best sources of information for understanding the firepower on Slave I & II.”
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I honestly do doubt he ever nerfed his own ship, but with it’s wide armament it is quite easy to avoid using such powerful weapons in close proximity to population centers. The movies never even show the Slave II. Also, the most solid info available for the Slave I is from the ICS. So, yea, we should use the ICS.
“He got swallowed by the Sarlacc, something we know to take years to digest people, so no, he did not die in that movie. I have never understood people that say he died in that movie when C-3PO clearly says it digests you for thousands of years.”
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Ok, he doesn’t die -on screen-, but it’s accepted that this was where he died. George Lucas even has a word concerning his death in.. the commentary? Is it? I could look it up if you really want the quotes but it’d be just as easy for you to look up “George Lucas commentary boba fett dies” or some other similar set of keywords.
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“I honestly do doubt he ever nerfed his own ship, but with it’s wide armament it is quite easy to avoid using such powerful weapons in close proximity to population centers. The movies never even show the Slave II. Also, the most solid info available for the Slave I is from the ICS. So, yea, we should use the ICS.”
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Or we use the movies, where we see the fighter ship durability, fire power, maneuverability, ect. As opposed to a random book which doesn’t fit with what we see.. I don’t get why that stance is so hard to grasp. I know I’m much more iffy about tech specs than a lot of people here but I don’t think this one stance is unreasonable or impossible to understand why I’m taking it.
“If that explosion was 100 MT, they’d all of been dead. Rather silly for the show to talk about one type of missile, only to have another be used.”
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Well it’s even sillier to misuse an English word on a show played in an English speaking country isn’t it? Also, the last point was really me just saying you have no way of knowing how far away the missile detonated on this planet, or what was between them and the explosion.
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“Read your own post, take it to heart.”
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Cute, clearly just diverting the fact that you’re too stubborn to seriously debate, and would rather remain so than accept my request, but cute.
“I honestly do doubt he ever nerfed his own ship, but with it’s wide armament it is quite easy to avoid using such powerful weapons in close proximity to population centers.”
-what i like about star wars is they never use powerful weapons in rural areas because we never see any big explosions or deep holes from blasts even when the tanks shoot that would be 1/1,000,000 of the size they state that they normally use. man those guys are really about minimizing colateral damage, god bless star wars and it’s humanitarian wars.
I went for it anyways cause I figured it’s so easy.
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“In the case of Boba Fett’s death, had I known he was gonna turn into such a popular character, I probably would’ve made it a little bit more exciting. Boba Fett was just another one of the minions, another one of the bounty hunters and badguys. But, he became such a favorite of everybody’s that, for having such a small part, uh he had a very large presence. And now that his history has been told in the first trilogy, y’know, it makes it even more of a misstep that we wouldn’t make more out of the event of his defeat, because most people don’t believe he died anyway. I’d contemplated putting in that extra shot in where he climbs out of the hole, but y’know I figure that’s . . . it doesn’t quite fit, in the end.”
Source: Return of the Jedi DVD Commentary, 33:01, 9/04
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He’s deeeead, dude. D. E. A. D. Dead. At least, in the movie canon. In EU he’s fine and dandy for a time, has some daughter problems but he had the coolest patrol ship in the EU for a time, so.. there’s that.
@Mike
“-what i like about star wars is they never use powerful weapons in rural areas because we never see any big explosions or deep holes from blasts even when the tanks shoot that would be 1/1,000,000 of the size they state that they normally use. man those guys are really about minimizing colateral damage, god bless star wars and it’s humanitarian wars.”
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“Or we use the movies, where we see the fighter ship durability, fire power, maneuverability, ect. As opposed to a random book which doesn’t fit with what we see.. I don’t get why that stance is so hard to grasp. I know I’m much more iffy about tech specs than a lot of people here but I don’t think this one stance is unreasonable or impossible to understand why I’m taking it.”
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There is one fight where Jango doesn’t even use all of the ships weapons in the movie. WOW, we have SO MUCH to use, IT’S INCREDIBLE!!!!! Yeah… that was sarcasm.
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“Ok, he doesn’t die -on screen-, but it’s accepted that this was where he died. George Lucas even has a word concerning his death in.. the commentary? Is it? I could look it up if you really want the quotes but it’d be just as easy for you to look up “George Lucas commentary boba fett dies” or some other similar set of keywords.”
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I believe I know what you’re talking about, but, that isn’t canon, it is just George just saying he had originally intended for Fett to die, not explicitly stating ‘Fett is dead’. Now, if Leland Chee were to say ‘Fett is dead, all EU sources pointing towards anything else are non-canon’ then it would mean something. As it stands, the licensing department and Leland Chee clearly seem to believe Fett survived the Great Pit of Carkoon.
“There is one fight where Jango doesn’t even use all of the ships weapons in the movie. ”
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We have other blaster cannons of comparable size being used, such as TIE Fighters and X-Wings. Including scenes of X-Wings hitting things like Turbo Laser turrets. We can easily begin extrapolating from there, and I assure you the numbers will come out to an impressive figure.
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I’d deal with the rest of your post but since I already have George’s quote up.. sort of pointless.
“He’s deeeead, dude. D. E. A. D. Dead. At least, in the movie canon. In EU he’s fine and dandy for a time, has some daughter problems but he had the coolest patrol ship in the EU for a time, so.. there’s that.”
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This is just gonna lead to a stoopid ass canon argument, we use the Film+EU canon on Factpile unless otherwise stated, that was settled awhile ago.
Oh except for this…
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” Now, if Leland Chee were to say ‘Fett is dead, all EU sources pointing towards anything else are non-canon’ then it would mean something.”
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Buuuuut SW’s tiers of canon would mean he’d never say something like that, because at least to its own story, and all stories related to it, it is canon. What we’d need to see for Boba to LIVE in the main canon is George Lucas being quoted as saying he’s changed his mind and Boba actually got out of the sarlaac just like in the stories.
“We have other blaster cannons of comparable size being used, such as TIE Fighters and X-Wings. Including scenes of X-Wings hitting things like Turbo Laser turrets. We can easily begin extrapolating from there, and I assure you the numbers will come out to an impressive figure.”
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One does not compare mass produced military weapons to expertly built limited production prototypes. It’s like comparing the Jaguar C-X75 to the Chevrolet Volt. When things go into mass production every aspect of them gets worse.
“This is just gonna lead to a stoopid ass canon argument, we use the Film+EU canon on Factpile unless otherwise stated, that was settled awhile ago.”
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It’s already a stoopid ass canon argument thanks to people who insist on using things they know the majority of non-starwars fanboys dislike because it walks up to their fond memories of watching Star Wars as a kid and promptly kicks those memories in the balls. We have the movies, the EU, varying conflicting EU at that, and then the occasional super wild card EU like the ICS.
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But I like how you switch gears to claiming factpile’s general acceptance of the two together once all other options are exhausted… for reasons I don’t understand, because I’m pretty sure the yield of the movie canon weapons are still enough to hurt the Defiant.
Okay, in that quote he never said Fett is dead, he even mentioned considering showing proof of him being alive in the movie. You’re making assumptions that are not quite based.
@Mike
“anychance you can find the clip of the missles exploding? because then we can do a calc on the difference between what they call it(100 megatons) and what it is in our terms and scale back the ICS FiGUreS accordingly. although that’d be more of an ass move than bringing about credible calculaitons….”
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Sorry it took so long, but here is the video, talk of yield at 3:55, explosion at about 6:07.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZssA5rc_W4
“Okay, in that quote he never said Fett is dead”
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“In the case of Boba Fett’s death, had I known he was gonna turn into such a popular character, I probably would’ve made it a little bit more exciting.”
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-Directly talking about the circumstances of his death.
“But I like how you switch gears to claiming factpile’s general acceptance of the two together once all other options are exhausted… ”
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What options have been exhausted? I’m merely pointing out something that was settled upon on this site awhile back now to put an end to the canon argument coming up.
“One does not compare mass produced military weapons to expertly built limited production prototypes. It’s like comparing the Jaguar C-X75 to the Chevrolet Volt. When things go into mass production every aspect of them gets worse.”
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Except military grade weapons are going to be better usually. The Abrams tank was mass produced and it is, if not the best tank ever, at least one of the best tanks on the planet. Newer TIE’s which were replacing older models were better than Vader’s TIE Advanced. X-Wings were some of the best general purpose starfighters ever at the time of their introduction. Your argument is invalid, with examples of both real world and fictional star wars vehicles. We get good performance shots from vehicles like the X-Wing, and its guns appear to be bigger than the ones on Slave II, but I figured they’d be a decent stand in because technology levels do not appear to be vastly different across factions except for alienated ones such as the Hapans.
No. He says death. Boba Fett’s Death. He considered having him live, but didn’t, although it would have been a great nod to the fans had he done it. This is just my opinion but I think he doesn’t really care about Boba that much, and is happy with what the EU has done to appease the fans of Boba Fett. He doesn’t see any reason to change his vision of Star Wars if there’s officially released materials which detail an alternate path where he lives for people to enjoy.
“Sorry it took so long, but here is the video, talk of yield at 3:55, explosion at about 6:07.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZssA5rc_W4”
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A pointless video without any proof the explosion was from one of those missiles, the missiles shown there could not have even forced a retreat as Obi-Wan had mentioned earlier in that episode.
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““In the case of Boba Fett’s death, had I known he was gonna turn into such a popular character, I probably would’ve made it a little bit more exciting.””
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You know Lucas also considers EU and Movies separate in his mind, the licensing department doesn’t share that sentiment though.
That.. didn’t look like 100 megatons. It’s impossible to tell of course, but if it was, those.. tree-thing-formations are fucking GIGANTIC, holy cow.
“Except military grade weapons are going to be better usually. The Abrams tank was mass produced and it is, if not the best tank ever, at least one of the best tanks on the planet. ”
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Have Mercedes produce six tanks, they’d be alot better. You can’t deny that.
“You know Lucas also considers EU and Movies separate in his mind, the licensing department doesn’t share that sentiment though.”
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It doesn’t matter. It’s his baby. It’s the licensing department’s job to try and make the franchise look as seamless as possible, but it’s still his creation. He owns it. It’s his. He controls it. What he decides, is. To act as if the creator of something does not get to decide what is canon to his own story is the absolute biggest insult you can give to the creator of that content.
“Have Mercedes produce six tanks, they’d be alot better. You can’t deny that.”
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Uh, yes. Yes I do believe I can. I am doing it right now. There is no guarantee that your statement is true.
wow……. just…….wow. i think those 3 100megaton missles took out maybe a couple city blocks……the MOAB is 10 tons yield and blows up about 3 city blocks wide(completely destroyed). so roughly 9 blocks with 10 tons……so rounding this to make it easier(since this isn’t a serious calculation)….so roughly 1 100megaton missle/block……so roughly 1 ton yeild/starwars missle….so starwars’ weapons are 100,000,000 x weaker than they claim to be…….HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
“It doesn’t matter. It’s his baby. It’s the licensing department’s job to try and make the franchise look as seamless as possible, but it’s still his creation. He owns it. It’s his. He controls it. What he decides, is. To act as if the creator of something does not get to decide what is canon to his own story is the absolute biggest insult you can give to the creator of that content.”
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Well, he never said Boba Fett is dead, he merely stated death as he thought that was what it was going to be when he made the movie, but many great authors have made it not so. These books were all licensed by people that Lucas gave the power to change the canon of his franchise Also, George Lucas is a dumbass.
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“Uh, yes. Yes I do believe I can. I am doing it right now. There is no guarantee that your statement is true.”
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Then you’re either disillusioned, or you fuckin love Chrysler. Sure, it is not a claim that can be proven, but logically speaking it makes perfect sense. I’m guessing you’ve never been near military vehicles in the field, they are pretty crap, it doesn’t matter what the circumstances. You also must consider military hardware is built by the lowest bidder, not the most qualified. If you compare the Land Rovers used by the military to the ones produced for the likes of the Dakar Rally or other events the military vehicles just pale in comparison.
“We never see vessels of that size or guns in that size range pump out that kind of fire power. Ever.”
So how are you able to judge the power of the explosions when they occur in space? Or when they hit ships with armour and shields? You’ll have to point out where exactly they said the yield of weapons etc.
“That’s clearly not about the firespray.”
Did I say it was? That was in response to the ICS being labelled trollish/ fanboyish material due to high yields I apologize for the confusion I should have clarified that
“It’s already a stoopid ass canon argument thanks to people who insist on using things they know the majority of non-starwars fanboys dislike”
Since when did the fact that people not like something determine whether its canon? We have a statement from the company on the ICS being canon, which we should ignore because people are upset by it or that it doesn’t fit their idea well to bad, they don’t decide what is and isn’t part of canon.
“Including scenes of X-Wings hitting things like Turbo Laser turrets.”
How exactly are you able to judge the yield of an explosion in space?
“wow……. just…….wow. i think those 3 100megaton missles took out maybe a couple city blocks……the MOAB is 10 tons yield and blows up about 3 city blocks wide(completely destroyed). so roughly 9 blocks with 10 tons……so rounding this to make it easier(since this isn’t a serious calculation)….so roughly 1 100megaton missle/block……so roughly 1 ton yeild/starwars missle….so starwars’ weapons are 100,000,000 x weaker than they claim to be…….HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH”
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Think about the dumbass claim you just made, it further proves that those were not the missiles spoke of. Because here on Earth we use Dynamite as the base unit for measuring explosiveness, if your claim is true, it would mean Star Wars uses essentially a non-flammable material. Occam’s Razor isn’t a real razor bro, you don’t have to be afraid to cut yourself on it.
@Mike
But like I said, it’s not “proof” that those were the ones they were talking about, but that IS by FAR the most logical, non-fanboy excuse, explanation for it.
“wow……. just…….wow. i think those 3 100megaton missles took out maybe a couple city blocks……the MOAB is 10 tons yield and blows up about 3 city blocks wide(completely destroyed). so roughly 9 blocks with 10 tons……so rounding this to make it easier(since this isn’t a serious calculation)….so roughly 1 100megaton missle/block……so roughly 1 ton yeild/starwars missle….so starwars’ weapons are 100,000,000 x weaker than they claim to be…….HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH”
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Not saying that “100 Megaton” means something REALLY different in a galaxy far far away” isn’t stupid, just that it seems to me to be a LOT less stupid then the alternative.
“Well, he never said Boba Fett is dead, he merely stated death as he thought that was what it was going to be when he made the movie, but many great authors have made it not so. These books were all licensed by people that Lucas gave the power to change the canon of his franchise Also, George Lucas is a dumbass.”
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He said Boba Fett’s DEATH scene. You can’t get any more conclusive than that! Holy shit. He is DEAD as far as the movies are concerned. I don’t get why its so hard to see that as far as the movies are concerned he’s dead, but he’s alive in the EU. Split timelines are nothing new to franchises.
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“Then you’re either disillusioned, or you fuckin love Chrysler. Sure, it is not a claim that can be proven, but logically speaking it makes perfect sense. I’m guessing you’ve never been near military vehicles in the field, they are pretty crap, it doesn’t matter what the circumstances. You also must consider military hardware is built by the lowest bidder, not the most qualified. If you compare the Land Rovers used by the military to the ones produced for the likes of the Dakar Rally or other events the military vehicles just pale in comparison.”
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The Abrams is not exactly not in competition right now. There is also the Champion, if I recall, as well as the Leopard II, and the Merkava IV. All of which are excellent tanks, with the Merkava maybe being the most versatile on the planet. The Abrams isn’t exactly sitting up on a pedestal with no one around to challenge it. We are always in an arms race, always improving our vehicles. You can say whatever nonsense you want, but this is not some kind of brand loyalty speaking, and you seem stuck on assuming people must have brand loyalty. You need to provide better proof that Mercedes would make a better tank. But maybe you should stick to the actual debate, instead of fuzzying about with canon and mercedes. Your complete avoidance of not using anything but the ICS implies you think with out it the Slaves will lose to the Defiant. Is this so? If not, can you say why you think they’d win even with out the ICS?
“Not saying that “100 Megaton” means something REALLY different in a galaxy far far away” isn’t stupid, just that it seems to me to be a LOT less stupid then the alternative.”
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Well, then you live in a very special world. It only takes assuming those were not the missiles used to justify my argument argument. Yours, you must first assume those were the missiles used, then assume that megatons means something different in Star Wars, and assume that their base unit for explosions is water. Perfectly logical, HOW DID I EVER DOUBT YOU!
“Think about the dumbass claim you just made, it further proves that those were not the missiles spoke of.”
-you seem to not know what “prove” means. that the show didn’t show what you wanted when implying what i rough calculated out. they gave missile yields, then minutes later had missile strikes. since there isn’t any mention of other missiles……who’s the dumbass?
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“Because here on Earth we use Dynamite as the base unit for measuring explosiveness, if your claim is true, it would mean Star Wars uses essentially a non-flammable material.”
-this makes no sense at all……..i don’t even know how you came to that conclusion……
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“Occam’s Razor isn’t a real razor bro, you don’t have to be afraid to cut yourself on it.”
-try this on for size……these missiles are badass…..look missiles……boom. simplest answer is they just have no idea what yields are, not that they would set up a missile scene only to show a completely different missile than what they talked about.
“Not saying that “100 Megaton” means something REALLY different in a galaxy far far away” isn’t stupid, just that it seems to me to be a LOT less stupid then the alternative.”
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Or it could just mean that the writers don’t know what they’re talking about. We have to assume that everything they say is in basic, which has since been retconned to not being english. Which means it could as easily be described as a translation to english error. I think it’s a lot easier to assume those WERE the missiles, but they were NOT actually 100 megatons, nor did they actually mean 100 megatons of TNT. It was just a yield error of that is the case.
“He said Boba Fett’s DEATH scene. You can’t get any more conclusive than that! Holy shit. He is DEAD as far as the movies are concerned. I don’t get why its so hard to see that as far as the movies are concerned he’s dead, but he’s alive in the EU. Split timelines are nothing new to franchises.”
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Uh huh, theres Film+EU, and Film only, we at Factpile aren’t unnecessary jackasses, and use the one with more source material with which to debate with. BESIDES YOU’RE INCLUDING THE SLAVE II SO YOU CLEARLY ARE ACKNOWLEDGING BOBA FETT’S SURVIVAL!
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“The Abrams is not exactly not in competition right now. There is also the Champion, if I recall, as well as the Leopard II, and the Merkava IV. All of which are excellent tanks, with the Merkava maybe being the most versatile on the planet. The Abrams isn’t exactly sitting up on a pedestal with no one around to challenge it. We are always in an arms race, always improving our vehicles. You can say whatever nonsense you want, but this is not some kind of brand loyalty speaking, and you seem stuck on assuming people must have brand loyalty. You need to provide better proof that Mercedes would make a better tank.”
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It’s simple economics, it’s easier for a company to produce thousands of cheap things than six excellent things. I’m not saying it’s a Mercedes vs Chrysler thing, it’s a cost efficiency thing.
” Your complete avoidance of not using anything but the ICS implies you think with out it the Slaves will lose to the Defiant. Is this so? If not, can you say why you think they’d win even with out the ICS?”
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No, I’m not going to move on from that argument until it’s settled, Slave I&II will probably win w/o it, but they shouldn’t need to. The Slaves are more versatile craft, with a wider range of weaponry. Mines, Concussion Missiles, Proton Torpedos, Ion Cannons, Minelayers, and Blaster Cannons.
@ZomBordeaux
“Well, then you live in a very special world. It only takes assuming those were not the missiles used to justify my argument argument. ”
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No, in an effort to make it fit with your view of SW, you have to make yourself believe that the “long range missiles” they’ve been talking about the whole episode are completely different then the missiles that exploded right after they said “long range missiles in bound”…..
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The thing is we’re just taking the episode as it is, your the one trying to preserve the firepower you think SW has.
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Like I said it just a fanboy excuse, with no basis in the episode.
@Sauroposeidon
“Or it could just mean that the writers don’t know what they’re talking about. We have to assume that everything they say is in basic, which has since been retconned to not being english. Which means it could as easily be described as a translation to english error. I think it’s a lot easier to assume those WERE the missiles, but they were NOT actually 100 megatons, nor did they actually mean 100 megatons of TNT. It was just a yield error of that is the case.”
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Well I guess that’s a LITTLE different then just “100 Megaton means something REALLY different in a galaxy far far away”, but…. Not by much.
“Yours, you must first assume those were the missiles used,”
-they imply it because it’s the only missiles talked about…..
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” then assume that megatons means something different in Star Wars”
-or that children’s shows don’t have scientific advisors for their script….
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“and assume that their base unit for explosions is water.”
-actually we never get to see the size of the missile, it could be anything from equivalent to modern day explosives, or it could be 10 times better and just be a smaller missile. since you like to referance occam’s razor, look at it this way. unless they found or created a material that combusts millions of times better than anything in the real world, they are using nukes….but there was no mushroom cloud and in fact even the MOAB creates a mushroom cloud….and they were needing to send in troops around there so they’d have to worry about radiation for which they didn’t seem to be planning accordingly…or…..they don’t know what explosive yields are supposed to act like or how big those destructive forces really are.
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you wanna see a real megaton explosion? 57mt www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxD44HO8dNQ
“you seem to not know what “prove” means. that the show didn’t show what you wanted when implying what i rough calculated out. they gave missile yields, then minutes later had missile strikes. since there isn’t any mention of other missiles……who’s the dumbass?”
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Another wild assumption appeared! ZomB used srsly? The wild assumption fainted.
“Uh huh, theres Film+EU, and Film only, we at Factpile aren’t unnecessary jackasses, and use the one with more source material with which to debate with. BESIDES YOU’RE INCLUDING THE SLAVE II SO YOU CLEARLY ARE ACKNOWLEDGING BOBA FETT’S SURVIVAL!”
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I acknowledge is survival in the EU, of course. Just not in the movies. I make a distinction of Film Only, Film+EU except for where Film contradicts EU, and EU-only, with various forms of EU conflicting with each other making it impossible to always use all of the EU together depending on what you’re speaking about.
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It’s simple economics, it’s easier for a company to produce thousands of cheap things than six excellent things. I’m not saying it’s a Mercedes vs Chrysler thing, it’s a cost efficiency thing.
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I am not continuing this discussion. Although I do love tanks, and wouldn’t mind discussing this elsewhere, it’s not the point of this debate, and we’re damn near to 100 posts already and very little discussion of the actual battle has been made.
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“No, I’m not going to move on from that argument until it’s settled, Slave I&II will probably win w/o it, but they shouldn’t need to. The Slaves are more versatile craft, with a wider range of weaponry. Mines, Concussion Missiles, Proton Torpedos, Ion Cannons, Minelayers, and Blaster Cannons.”
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Well at least you saw through my attempt to move this discussion forward with the absence of the ICS. Thank you for somewhat keeping us in a quagmire.
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“The thing is we’re just taking the episode as it is, your the one trying to preserve the firepower you think SW has.”
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I don’t think that there’s any reason to believe that Star Wars can’t reach that level of fire power.. it’s just not the fire power those missiles have, apparently.