Suggested by Dr. Doctor, refined by guardianangel1911, Hitman H94, and Commander Cross
For this match The Joker has kidnapped Leonardo Da Vinci, and taken him to the Sionis Steel Mill located at the Arkham City construction site in order to innovate newer and stronger weapons than Batman could come up with.
Unbeknownst to the Joker, Leonardo has friends in high places. The Mentor of the Assassin Brotherhood, Ezio Auditore da Firenze, has tracked the Joker to the Steel Mill. He has a maximum two weeks to prepare for the infiltration, and subsequent murder of Joker. He has access to all resources that may be available within the surrounding Arkham City.
The Joker has a heavily fortified Steel Mill, and a large amount of guards, armed solely with Shields, Tazers, and knives, and in the room with Leonardo, he has three sniper-armed guards.
In order to save Leonardo, Ezio must do whatever he can within two weeks to gather the resources necessary for the rescue, exhibit the skills necessary to get that far, and finally defeat the Joker in a no-holds barred fight between the two.
Can Ezio do it? Or will Joker end up finishing a match with a smile on both of their faces?
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First. What kind of sniper rifles (I’m assuming that’s what was meant by “sniper-armed”) are we talking about for the guards here?
Initially, I think Joker has this.
Ezio could easily handle joker’s not gun-armed guards. But he could probably ambush the snipers with a crossbow or pistol attack. Is this his brotherhood incarnation? because if he is current incarnation he has grenades, smoke bombs, and noisemakers not to mention the hook blade.
All my Flroins are on Ezio.
Remember Ezio isn’t just a normal human. He is slightly superhuman because he has first civilization people blood in him which makes him better than a normal assassin
My initial bets are with Ezio, especially cause he has two weeks to do whatever he wants. Also it’s said he has access to ALL resources available in Arkham City, I’m sure it wouldn’t take long for Ezio to acquire some flash-bang, Frag, and Smoke grenades, not to mention an actual pistol or two.
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The man is used to firing a pistol from his wrist with no aim assist at all, not to mention the crossbow. Add to that the fact that he’s known to just pick up techniques and weapons and use them effectively (Assassin’s Creed 2 & Revelations) He could master a Glock in a day.
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The Snipers would be easy, stick to the shadows, hit one with a poison dart. He starts going crazy and becomes an immediate distraction to the other snipers. Then it becomes easy work to slip in, finish off the snipers with the crossbow or throwing knives, and dive down from the rafters onto the Joker and hit him with the ol’ Hidden Blade
This seems a stomp for ezio.
Don’t forget Joker will probably have many traps set around Arkham Asylum as well as having his thugs.
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I believe Ezio is in his current incarnation which is Revelations, so he has his bombs and other standard equipment. I think Ezio biggest weakness will be the thugs with a taer, he hasn’t gona up against anything like that before and his knowedge of tazers will be a huge downfall for him.
Eh joker straps a bomb to the bottom of Leo’s seat, when Ezio frees him it goes boom. Straight up fight Ezio Stomps, Two weeks in AC asks batman for help stomp for Ezio.
Ezio could probably do the first part of the challenge and save Leonardo,… But when it comes down to a hand to Hand fight with Mr. J, I don’t think he has what it takes to take the clown down.
Ezio wouldn’t bother with a fair fight. He’d put a musket ball in his torso and call it a day. Besides, by Revelations Ezio is an old man with nothing to prove. He’s going to try to get everything done as quickly and efficiently as possible.
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Eaglevison counters traps.
Soooo basically this is batman vs joker but with Leonardo da Vinci.
Ezio takes this
I think Ezio could take Joker in a one-on-one fight. Joker is pretty good but Ezio has had years of exp. fighting by the time of Revelations.
Revelations era Ezio is a one man army, he can headbutt people wearing helmets and knock them out. I don’t think the Joker is able to do stuff like that, however Joker doesnt’ fight fair either, it would be a good fight once it hit that point. The problem is Joker is used to Bats hesitating at that last moment, holding back etc. The second he see’s the swath of death and destruction torn through his men he’s going to be nervous because this ain’t Batman, he’ll bank on Ezio wanting him to pay for his crimes though, unfortunately for Joker Ezio is more likely to just shoot him than he is to play the game Joker usually plays with Bats. Joker will be lucky if Ezio even stops for a second to acknowledge his jokes. When Ezio wants to save his friends or family the man is like a force of nature and Joker is standing between Ezio and what he wants.
I really like the Ezio picture too.
yeah the Ezio pic is epic.
So is there any reason Ezio shouldn’t be able to win this anyone? Anyone want to take a crack at Joker’s stratagem
Ezio has TWO WEEKS. that’s more than enough time to learn about Joker and his tactics. Probably a stupid question, but why are Leonardo and Ezio in Arkham City? Is it just for the sake of the debate?
@DragonReborn
Mainly for the sake of debate, if you need a reason maybe Joker found a time machine or Leonardo got bored tried to hack the apple and sucked him and Ezio to the future. But overall it doesn’t really affect the debate why they are there. The main thing is that they are there.
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by the way are you new to the site? If so welcome. Must ask is that Cole from infamous in your avatar image or some other character?
Thanks for the info, and yes i am new. It’s Rand al’Thor from the Wheel of Time.
@DragonReborn
No problem, again welcome.
Okay Rand, couldn’t really tell due to the size.
i don’t think i can make it bigger.
So no holds barred means joker is gonna be allowed automatic weapons? Added with his fighting skill(the man could give batman problems nuff said)
You can’t, didn’t mean you should was just saying.
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Anyway I think this match is pretty cut and dry, Ezio slaughters Jokers goons and then kills the Clown Prince of Crime D-E-D Dead.
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@Rhodo
Joker generally doesn’t use automatic weapons himself prefering to torture and such. Ezio isn’t a slouch in the hand to hand department and also has the hidden blades which Joker wouldn’t expect.
“D-E-D”? and Rhodo, Ezio doesn’t even have to let joker know he’s there. He does have two weeks. He could esily learn how guns work in that time period, he’s not dumb.
Sorry for the double post, but i was implying he could take the gun off one of the Joker’s men and kill him from a distance.
@DragonReborn
it’s a joke sometimes used.
and I agree, Ezio knows how guns work, of his era yes but the basic concept is the same aim and shoot, he does it with no sights all the time give him modern sights to utilize, dude would be killing the Joker from miles away.
Strange joke, but i get it and have heard weirder, and less funny, jokes. Is there a Ezio vs Altair match in here somewhere? i’ve always wanted to see those two go at it.
@GuardianAngel1911
As I said hes given batman trouble. The guy who’s mastered virtually every martial art their is(I don’t think ezio is on that “level”)
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batman.wikia.com/wiki/The_Joker%27s_weapons
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“acid flower” solos. Also hes got a gun strong enough to take out the bat-plane in one shot.
@GuardianAngel1911
Giving a profesional archer a sniper doesn’t mean hes gonna be a good shot. I’m good with a bow but cant hit an aluminum can with an airsoft sniper 50 ft away. Ezios guns are drastically different from ones used today and I doubt he’d be able to get his hands on spy hiden guns in two weeks.
But the major difference you seem to be missing is that Ezio can and will kill the joker, where as Batman, badass as he is, won’t under any circumstances.
@DragonRebornSTOMP
Which is the problem the jokers been beaten by batman for decades. In turn hes learned make shift martial arts which are capable of handling batman in a fight. How is ezio immune to joker venom again? And is joker allowed to use that “titan” stuff used in asylum?
In Arkham City Batman and Bane destroyed what was left of the TITAN so no, he doesn’t. There are plenty of people in arkham city who have snipers besides jokers men. within the first few days Ezio could get his hands on a sniper AND recon the steel mill. he would spend several days after that learning how to use the gun and blend in with modern surroundings. then he goes to the steel mill and snipes the joker after killing off his gaurds. Neither Joker Venom nor his learned martial arts will come into play.
@Rhodo
some things you’re missing
1. Ezio has two weeks, he picked up how to use the hidden gun in a very small amount of time, find a modern weapon, practice with it a bit and he’s ready.
2. in those two weeks he can do anything he wants, the battle is in Arkham City, Ezio isn’t above manipulating the gang populations and pointing everyone else at Joker, get Two Face’s gang, Penquins Gang, and all the other thugs riled up and frenzied to attack the Steel Mill, and while that’s going down and Joker is trying to coordinate a defense Ezio slips in takes Joker down and takes Leonardo out of there, there is nothing stopping him.
3. Even if Ezio doesn’t use modern weapons he still has his crossbow, hidden gun, and throwing knives, any of which could put down Joker in one or two hits.
4. Joker likes to play mind games with his opponent, like he does with Batman, when someone doesn’t play along it throws him off his game, a good example would be Batman Beyond Return of the Joker, Terry plays along and laughs at the Joker and does what Bruce never did, Joker couldn’t stand it, Ezio isn’t Batman, he isn’t going to give a fuck about Joker’s little games and gags he’s going to get his resources together, stake out the mill figure out a plan of attack and shred Joker and his goons like paper in a blender.
5. Bane is in the city and destroyed the Titan, may even be convinced to help Ezio just cause he dislikes Joker after the Titan thing.
6. League of Shadow is in town and depending on when in the continuity this is they are leaderless, Ezio is a master assassin and on par with Batman in several catagories, he would fit right in with them for the most part, he could use them to his advantage, suddenly Ezio is backed by a small army of ninja and has access to the resources of said League and can use that to massacre Joker’s men.
i had forgotten about the League. Ra’s would LOVE Ezio. imagine an immortal Ezio Auditore da Firenze.
@DragonRebornSTOMP
Ezio shoot’s from his wrist with no aim. Hows he gonna learn to use a sniper perfectly in two weeks? Would other villains be around in that case (im also assuming this is before batman enters akham city considering jokers “alive” thus titan stuff should still be around)
Hmm, so does the Joker also have time to prepare for things himself? I mean just because he doesn’t know Ezio is after him doesn’t mean he won’t turn the steel mill into a death trap anyway chances are good he would be expecting one of Gotham’s many other heroes to come and save DaVinci.
Not neccessarily, it depends on how soon we are in the timeline and when Bats decided to take out Bane. and he doesn’t have to be “perfect” with the sniper. center body mass would be simple for a man like Ezio to master.
@GuardianAngel1911
This is obviously before batman entered akrjham city unless your having ezio fight a terminally ill joker.
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” Ezio has two weeks, he picked up how to use the hidden gun in a very small amount of time, find a modern weapon, practice with it a bit and he’s ready.”
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^By small what asre we talking,secound “memories” in the ac universe are carried in genes. maybe he had an ancestor who was in china at the time they discovered black powder..
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“3. Even if Ezio doesn’t use modern weapons he still has his crossbow, hidden gun, and throwing knives, any of which could put down Joker in one or two hits.”
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^You read my weapon list correct? It also links to a page called “jokers rpg” I’m sure that can down ezio in one hit.
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@Topaz he may be expecting a hero, but Ezio is not a hero, he is an assassin. heroes would confront Joker and beat him down, whilst Ezio would kill his ass D-E-D dead.
I’m assuming they are, Dr. Doctor would have to clarify. and he does have to aim it to a point for ranged attacks, even then there’s also his crossbow and I doubt in all those years he never looked at the various firearms floating around if just out of curiosity. And while he wouldn’t be perfect he could figure out how to use it, again guns of his era though far less effective are the same basic principle aim and pull trigger, the League will be there no matter what since their base is under the city and Arkham City is kind of their plan. As DragonReborn said Ra’s would love Ezio, suddenly we have Ezio Al Ghul Master of the League of Shadows vs Joker and a bunch of thugs.
@Rhodo you are assuming Joker will even know where he is. He’ll know Ezio is there, due to the fact that all his gaurds are dropping dead, but where he is is another matter entirely. Ezio IS after all, a Master Assassin. That includes being really good at sneaking.
@GuardianAngel1911
” League of Shadows vs Joker and a bunch of thugs.”
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Correction: joker,a bunch of thugs…and clayface.
Yeah…Wouldn’t clayface be disguised as joker at the time? If batman couldn’t find out untill it was too late I doubt ezio will be any the wiser.
Clayface would be a bitch. but Clayface would not know where to find the new Al Ghul, and Ezio would be smart and formulate a new plan when the Joker’s chest explodes in a fountain of clay instead of blood.
Hero or not doesn’t mean he won’t have the place trapped in various nasty ways more so if this is actually a currently active steel mill. Just because Ezio will kill his guards doesn’t mean Joker has to set things up differently. That also makes me wonder. Would there be video surveillance? I get that he’s a master assassin but would he know about what cameras are or even think about such a thing existing considering the era he’s from?
sorry for the double post, but I have to admit my memory is foggy in regards the the steel mill in Arkham City so I can’t recall if it was actually functioning or not.
RPG was the Dark Knight Joker, I…actually what version are we using here? Arkham City Joker? Comic Joker? cause that RPG is specifically from the movie but doesn’t mean he couldn’t get one, just like Ezio can get access to who knows what if he ends up in touch with Ra’s, considering Ezio can likely match or defeat any of the ninja.
Clayface may or may not come into play….but he could be useful unless while Joker is sick he has ClayfaceJoker head out to play commander after Ezio is already in the building, and Ezio is also quick on his feet, while he doesn’t have Batman’s tech he is a genius at tactics, and in a chaotic place like Arkham City, well, the place is a powder keg, all Ezio has to do is gather the League and have them point all the non Joker groups at Jokers base, chaos can cause a lot of problems. And with Eagle Sense Ezio would know ClayfaceJoker isn’t Joker, he wouldn’t waste his time and would leave ClayfaceJoker to deal with the mass chaos outside, meanwhile he goes in slaughters the skeleton crew guards that weren’t sent out, pimp slaps Harley if she tries anything, finds where Joker is and either kills him at a distance or slips up behind him and slits his throat or hidden blades him. Ezio is a tactician, and a master assassin, you give him two weeks to do whatever the hell he wants to take down one guy and he can pull off some impressive stuff.
@Topaz that’s a good point. But as i stated earlier, it would only take about a week for Ezio to learn about his new toys, and he would spend about four days or more on recon. he could learn about ventilation shafts and such in that time. he wouldn’t understand them, but he could still use them to his advantage .
@dragon
But thats the thing the joker had clayface make it appear he was fine and do hismgeust apperances.Ezio attacks “the joker” and the jokes on him while the dying clown watches it on the telly
Eagle vision is a great point. in fact, everything Guardian said is very true. and i too, would like to clarify which Joker we are using.
@Topaz
camera’s didn’t help too much with Batman, and Ezio can use anything in Arkham to help him.
@Rhodo
Eagle Vision is a bit better at identifying a target than Detective Vision, Ezio would notice the differences with it, he wouldn’t understand how they were different but he would trust his senses and look for the true target.
I never understood why Joker didn’t screw with ventilation systems in his hideouts, seriously well placed Joker gas in the vents, and a couple motion sensitive triggers… or hell just motion sensors and a way to flood the vents with poison. One of the primary ways Batman always sneaks into his hideouts pretty much covered.
@gaurdian
Since when has eagle sense been that acurate?(I only played 1 and all it does is show awarness level and hostiles)
@Topaz
I think he want’s Bats to have a way in usually. That or he doesn’t give a fuck.
@Topaz, Ezio has years, perhaps decades of experience. he would leave himself some time incase something went wrong, and i have no doubt Ra’s would tell Ezio everything he knew about Clayface. “hey Ra’s?” “Yes?” “i shot the Joker and clay came out. What’s up with that?” “oh, thats just this thing called Clayface.” i know that’s not how it would go, but you get the jist of it.
@Rhodo
in Revelations his Eagle vision goes to Eagle sense, it lets him pick out an exact target among a group of similar characters that are hiding their faces, 360 detection, the ability to predict where guards are heading and more.
@gaurdian
He’s NEVER met the joker,batman him self known him for years and didn’t notice the diffrence.Doesn’t ezio only get bassics of the joker(ex:tall skinny guy with green hair,mentally insane,numerous weapons,bad)
@Rhodo if you only played the first one, your knowledge is pretty handicapped. unless i’ve totally missed something.
Eagle Sense would tell him there was SOMETHING wrong with Clayface.
Honestly I see jokerface soloing ezio’s ‘army’ and ezio him self if he does what is most likely(get up close and knife him)
Yeah I just looked it up. I also would love to know which Joker this is. Though i don’t know in what ways Comic Joker is from AC Joker, I do know that Comic Hareley is different from AC Harley in the respect that comic Harley has minor super powers.
You think the Joker can take on the ENTIRE League of Shadows? dude, maybe one or two, but all of them, plus Ezio? no way.
*is different
Harley has super powers? Like what?
@Dragon
How? As ive said he’s never met joker or clayface as much as batman has. Is eagle vison ever discribed as a super power or just his assasin insticts(I forgot)?
I think he means Clayface as Joker could, and I honestly don’t know about that then again Batman comics seem to have this thing where the normal human characters can handle the more outrageous characters with only some trouble.
it could be considered a power, in that not vey many people can utilise it, but i don’t think it is ever actually CALLED a power.
@dragonreborn
No I belive jokerface could solo the leauge(aka clayface disguised as the joker). joker in his prime should do almost as well as batman or better seeing as he has been known to go for the kill on more then one occasion.
When Ivy injected Harley with a serum that would make her immune to Ivy’s powers/toxins it woke her latent meta gene. So Harley has immunity to all poisons, super human agility, and really, really crappy super strength.
“Mastering Eagle Vision led to an “awakening of the sixth,” as Juno once termed it, and granted the user Eagle Sense.[4]
A more heightened form of Eagle Vision, it allowed one to focus on a target and sense approximately where they had gone, or inversely, where they would go. This was particularly helpful in tailing a target, or detecting the path a guard would take, in order to set up a bomb or lay an ambush.[1]
With Eagle Sense, Ezio was also able to pick up cold trails, or locate disguised enemies. However, for the latter, he was required to concentrate harder and scrutinize people individually, rather than as a crowd.[1]
Ezio also once used his Eagle Sense to follow the scent vapors of datura, and to diagnose an injured mercenary by listening to his heartbeat. As such, the latter technique allowed him to conclude that the man was alive but weak, and likely affected by some form of poison.[1]”
Clayface kind of doesn’t have a heartbeat, wouldn’t show up since it allows Ezio to pick his target out of a crowd even if he hasn’t met them, and yes it does let him pick them out even if he doesn’t know them because he generally hasn’t met any of his targets nine times out of ten.
i see what you mean, but Ra’s is pretty damn smart and i would be willing to bet he could clue Ezio in on how to beat Jokerface.
Those superpowers suck.
@dragonreborn
I consider it a skill then. Not every one utilizes computer programing. It is not considered a power. Plus assasins are recuited thus eventually LEARN the skill. Unless were assuming ezio’s a better detective then batman he sure as hell ain’t seeing past clayface in thr jpker disguise.
Guardian’s recent post strongly suggests otherwise.
by the way I don’t know if Joker could actually win, just trying to think up ways to level the playing field for him so it’s a bit more of a challenge. I do see Joker having the place trapped, hell even areas with his own guys would be trapped since honestly Joker could care less about killing his own men off.
yes they do seriously Harley’s “super” strength lets her lift twice her body weight (so at the max it’s about 250 lbs) Ivy doesn’t have super strength and is considered stronger
technically Ezio doesn’t even have to bother with Jokerface, eagle sense will tell him there’s something wrong through its extrasensory perception, no heartbeat smell of clay, not things you expect from a clown in a tux Ezio may not know much of our modern world but he knows 2+2=4 so to speak.
@Rhodo
Eagle Vision is a bloodline trait for the most part, either you got it or you don’t. Eagle Sense is that on steroids, if you pay attention I posted what it was capable of including diagnosing a poisoning victim, it’s fucking ESP for fucks sake, it doesn’t have to make sense it just does what it does and in this case it allows you to recognize who your target is period, even in a crowd of similarly dressed people. Hell Eagle Vision let Altair see through the illusions of the Apple of Eden, Eagle Sense is more powerful.
@Topaz very true, but Ezio has gotten in to heavily trapped and guarded places before, albeit without the possible motion trackers and such.
@gaurdian
Depends how good copy of joker clayface made(was it shown that he did or didn’t make an inside to him?). All in all the sounds just like peak senses and great observation skills(batman has tjoughs as well iirc).
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Plus their is no real way hes avoiding clayface. that super stong shape shifters gonna suffocate him regardless before he gets even close to the reak joker.
@Rhodo at the last fight with Joker if you go into detective vision you can see he has no bones. so he can act like Joker, and look like him up to a certain point.
I honestly think motion sensors and the such will be the only real issue he’d have, and that’s a minor thing considering how mobile he is as a character. What I think they mean is Ezio looks at Clayface, sees that it’s not the real target, and instead of exposing himself he just tries his best to circle wide around him. Clayface doesn’t have superhuman senses.
@Rhodo
ClayJoker was hollow, no bone structure, no organs.
And if there’s an army of ninja attacking Joker’s gang will need help, Joker will have ClayJoker either out there fighting or playing mission control, on top of that two weeks is more than enough time to get the various gangs riled up enough to assault the steel mill, that much chaos will be more than enough to let Ezio slip in undetected.
The only one I really see ezio possiblyntaking the win is the actual battle,but since this ain’t batman he’ll joker give him a spritz of his flower and be on his way.
@Topaz Precisely
@Guardian good debating skills. but i have kind of an off-topic question. Is double-posting against any actual rules, or is it just discouraged? cause i keep doing it, and i don’t want to get reprimanded or something.
I think it might be discouraged, but not honestly sure.
@DragonReborn
no it’s not against the rules, it happens sometimes when you forget a point or something, while most people like to avoid it it happens sometimes.
kay i’ll start to try harder to avoid it.
@Rhodo we have already established that Ezio won’t get close enough for that,
now that I think actually did Arkham City Joker ever use Joker venom?
oh and thanks for the compliment DragonReborn.
@Gaurdian
You actnas though joker isn’t gonna assume somthings up with all the gang’s getting more organized?
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My main point is in round 1 joker has two superpowered gaurds.One who could easily decimate the entire force of ezio’s ‘army’(has ezio ever controlled such numbers or railed up random crooks and criminals that would kill him(and/or eat him if he meets killer croc)Due to just not being part of their factions?
No, and your quite welcome.
I thought he did in Arkham Asylum.
Couldn’t he in theory just have clayface just cover joker disguised as costume or somthing(I forget the exact limits of clayface shape shifting)
@Rhodo
they won’t be more organize, they’ll just be attacking, eachother and Jokers gang, a multi army battle so to speak, that is a lot of confusion, and that’s not even getting into Riddler’s infiltrators if they try and mix things up. If the Steel Mill is turned into a war zone there. Ezio isn’t Batman, the Criminals have no reason to trust or distrust him, he is good at rallying forces though including large numbers of assassins, Ezio just has to get the gangs to try and take Jokers turf, the place is a powder keg, it’s like walking up to a group of crips and telling them the bloods that are right across the street at the moment called them pussies, no orginization it just has to get things started.
Actually his limits aren’t really well defined in any medium in terms of shrinking himself down, but he doesn’t actually lose any of his mass. So even if he disguised himself as clothing he would be weighing Joker down.
@Topaz he did, but not in Arkham City, though he did poison Bats and Gotham with his blood.
@Rhodo his “superguards” wouldn’t pose a problem if Ezio an his buddies snuck around, or lured them away. I just had a thought that i’m surprised the Joker guys didn’t bring up. Joker could use Leo as a hostage or meat shield. im not saying it would work, or even be particularly effective, but he could try.
@DragonReborn
a meat shield would work on Batman, Ezio…well Joker doesn’t know what Ezio literally has up his sleeve…
I would say he would have Joker gas then, simply because.
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A.) Joker without it just doesn’t feel like Joker honestly (TDK, and the first Batman movie not included)
B.) Arkham City is a continuation of Arkham Asylum, while he didn’t use it he would have definitely had it made.
Which is exactly why i said it probably wouldn’t work.
@angel
So criminals DON’T attack other criminals?Even in akham asylum killer croc killed scarecrow without a secound thought,catwoman almost got killed by two face,penguin was greatly harming grundies regenerating body etc .So I really see no reason to how they will definitly NOT attack a strange guy running buildings in white and red.