Suggested By Captain Epic
For this battle it will be current incarnations, standard loadouts. No octocamo for Snake.
Battle takes place on Shadow Moses Island with each character knowing the layout.
Who wins?
Solid Snake Vs Winter Soldier
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Isn’t the current snake is an old man?
Also, first!
Current incarnation, standard loadouts… No octocamo? Then its not standard loadout, IS IT!? >:I
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Why don’t you take away his box while you’re at it?
maybe snake because home field advantage, if he can set him self up for a good shot with his rail gun he could take it.
I don’t think the railgun counts as standard loadout. He gets it as “loot” from a specific enemy.
So what is his standard loadout the only gun i see him use alot is his pistol.
We all know whos to going to win solid Snake!
“We all know whos to going to win solid Snake!”
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Who’s going to win Solid Snake? I thought this was a match, not them being the prizes?
It’s been awhile since I’ve played the game, so I’ve got no idea what his standard weapon set is. The pistol and knife are a given though.
Snake had his Railgun as his standard loadout against Master Chief, I don’t see why he wouldn’t have it here…
lol you metal gear fanboys stop complaining
P.S WS stomps
lol just go to comic vine he’s basically a captain america who uses guns and has no morals.
You mean nobody mentioned that the only time Old Snake, the latest incarnation, only gets his railgun from Crying Wolf(or I think its crying) about halfway through the game after killing her? That doesn’t sound “standard” to me.
Who’s going to win Solid Snake? I thought this was a match, not them being the prizes? No i mean that he would win because of his cunning and strengh
Lol winter is pretty damn cool Im leaning towards him for now and can we get feats for both combatants?
@Zolanius
Snake owns every single weapon he has. It’s the same exact thing if we were talking about Dante acquiring a weapon after killing a boss. That’s his standard load out from his latest incarnation.
“lol you metal gear fanboys stop complaining”
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You’re going to have to do a lot more than that to disprove us.
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“P.S WS stomps”
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Prove it.
No one’s mentioned this, but currently, Bucky’s left arm is cybernetic and produces EMPs, which can damage most of Snake’s guns. It can also fire electric shots.
Oh, the arm is also strong enough to punch through steel. If Snake tries Melee, he is done for.
“No one’s mentioned this, but currently, Bucky’s left arm is cybernetic and produces EMPs, which can damage most of Snake’s guns. It can also fire electric shots.”
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What’s the range on the EMP though? That’s important considering many of Snake’s weapons can be used from very far away.
@Sorrow
So standard means every possible weapon they can get, aside from easter eggs? Because those might not be canon. So what about the dolls from Mantis?
“So standard means every possible weapon they can get, aside from easter eggs?”
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Yeah easter eggs are just too weird to realistically be given.
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“So what about the dolls from Mantis?”
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I think they can be used, but on the same token, unless Winter Solider has nano-machines in his body, they are useless.
“Oh, the arm is also strong enough to punch through steel. If Snake tries Melee, he is done for” snake has his own feats of strength example metal gear solid 2 when he is hand cuffed and he breaks them with ease to escape
Snakes advanced biological (not chronological) age, without his Octocamo puts him at a disadvantage. Even though it’s primary purpose was camouflage, it also doubled as a muscle suit, to aid Snake physically.
so he does not have that suit to aid him physically in this scenario?
let me rephrase that question what equipment does he have on?
I would like to repeat post number three…
No Cardboard Box for Snake
That’s like taking his soul away.
@Zolanius
agreed. how about snake wins this way. w.s is on a hill top with a sniper rifle scanning the entire forest sees nothing but trees, deer, a cardboard box, and rabbits. he declares the entire situation to “seem legit” and lets his guard down. ah snake you clever bastard youve done it again
The box is the only thing keeping him hidden. XD Since his octocamo is gone.
Winter would never see it coming. Hiding in plain sight, just brillant.
@the sorrow do we know to what extent the suit enhanced his abilities?
“Snakes advanced biological (not chronological) age, without his Octocamo puts him at a disadvantage.”
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Thing is, does the “Octocamo” in the scenario mean the entire suit, or does it just mean that Snake gets the suit with the camouflage feature disabled? It would be quite pointless to put Old Snake in a match otherwise.
@the observer
thats a very good question
Either we get Captain Epic to specify or one of the OP’s (Hitman) to do it.
Standard equipment is something that we see (IN CUTSCENE) Snake using, Snake takes a handgun and we see him using that all the way through the game, same thing for his M-4, and he gets a Railgun wich we also see him using, this shows that he did pick them up and uses them.
Dante picks a weapon up (IN CUTSCENE) shows us that he takes it with him, we cannot say that Snake picked up 3 different rocket launchers and uses them when it’s completely optional to pick them up.
I can pass the entire game only using the equipment that was shown (you can pass the game with only the handgun if you wan’t to).
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And not giving Snake the Octocamo is a bad idea because it’s what keeps him in top shape performance.
Epic, if Snake lacks Octocamo, is it just the camo ability or the suit? Without the suit, he dies from being an old guy in the middle of a blizzard.
@Tails111:
“Oh, the arm is also strong enough to punch through steel. If Snake tries Melee, he is done for.”
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My fist is strong enough to punch through steel, too.
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Can anyone see the problem with Tails111 assertion?
So what does he wear if his not in the Octocamo suit, is just the ability or the suit?
If he has no suit then is he going to be running around Shadow Moses in underwear?
@OMEGAMI:
“If he has no suit then is he going to be running around Shadow Moses in underwear?”
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He’s Naked Snake, now.
^
Hahahaha, Icwutudiddare.
Even though snake is not allowed octocamo will he get the stealth suit or the unlimited ammo bandana.
and if they get into fisticuffs then snake has been fast enough to dodge snipe bullets and abrahms tanks and strong enough to survive being burned, electrocuted and extreme blood loss all mid battle.
@Rybiter:
“and if they get into fisticuffs then snake has been fast enough to dodge snipe bullets and abrahms tanks”
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From this link: www.factpiletopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=35591&p=199255#p199255
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“Now one of the more important things about RT is also where the character is located, and where the object is initially located before it is fired. Let’s say someone, Person A, is standing 152 meters away (500 ft.) from Person B. Person B has a gun that fires bullets at 457 m/s (1,500 ft/s). He fires a round at Person A.
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Since we know the distance between the two and the speed the bullet is traveling, we would take t = d/s and learn that Person A would need to react in less than 0.202 seconds, which is the same as 20.2 ms.
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Say Person A dodges. That’s great. We have an estimate of his RT. The problem I see at FP and other message boards like it is that if a character can dodge bullets, this means he or she can dodge bullets at any range, even possibly point-blank (0.91 m.; 3 ft.).
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Going back to Person A, all we know is that if he is at 152 meters or farther, he can dodge a bullet traveling 457 m/s. This also means he can dodge slower bullets at a closer range, but that should also be tested anyway to see if Person A’s RT is 20.2 ms or higher. If Person A can dodge a bullet traveling 457 m/s at 152 meters, it doesn’t mean he can dodge it at 61 meters (200 ft.), unless proven.”
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Something else I posted up recently about Snake dodging Olga’s bullet in MGS2, I believe. It’s from this link: www.factpiletopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=977&start=60
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“I know this is two years old, but even looking at the Olga scene where Snake dodges a bullet, I would think this would have refuted the idea that MC has a better RT than Snake. It seems that the gun Olga used was a USP handgun, and I found the low end for the muzzle velocity to be 830 ft/s (253 m/s).
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I estimated the distance between Snake and Olga to be 9 feet (2.74 m.) because Snake kind of moves a step closer. When calculated, I got 0.0108. Since this is in the millisecond range, 0.0108 * 1,000 = 10.8 ms. That’s clearly better than 20 ms.”
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“and strong enough to survive being burned, electrocuted and extreme blood loss all mid battle.”
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This doesn’t tell how much heat, how many volts and amps, nor how much blood Snake ever lost during mid-battle. Quantify these. By the way, blunt trauma is a different story.
Can someone give me some detail on winter solider ?
Since I don’t know nothing about W.S, I’m going with snake
Epic
Never mind not that impress with W.S
Snake for the win , why ? He’s the best soldier , he beat every challenge that was given to him , he is a expert with any gun you give him, he’s fast, smart , and the fact that he’s a clone of big boss .
“No octocamo for Snake.”
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He dies, miserably.
No one seems to be saying anything about Winter Soldier. No feats, nothing about his standard load out, a vague description about his bionic arm and that’s it.
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I’m sure Captain Epic would have something to say, since he is the expert of Captain America, but that doesn’t seem likely right now.
“No one’s mentioned this, but currently, Bucky’s left arm is cybernetic and produces EMPs, which can damage most of Snake’s guns. It can also fire electric shots.”
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Don’t chaff grenades work similar to an EMP? Unless they can disable the nanomachines that work the I.D. locks, how is an EMP going to damage Snake’s guns?
“Don’t chaff grenades work similar to an EMP?”
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Yes, they are used to confuse radar systems and other electronic devices.
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“Unless they can disable the nanomachines that work the I.D. locks”
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Which would more than likely be a good thing for Snake.
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“how is an EMP going to damage Snake’s guns?”
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The only two things I can think of right off the top of my head that could be damaged is the Railgun, FaceCamo (no one specified he couldn’t use it), or the Soild Eye.
I tried to find a bucky respect thread the only one i found sucked, so ima stick with snake
Wow huge fail on my part, after I typed out that there were two things that could be affected by Winter’s EMP, I remember the FaceCamo. So it should be *three things. Silly me.
Wait a minute How is having a bionic arm and able to throw emp wave work??
Wouldn’t the bionic arm be effected by the emp??
@knightbreaker117:
“Wouldn’t the bionic arm be effected by the emp??”
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Not if it’s EMP hardened.
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Anyway . . .
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www.comicvine.com/bucky-barnes/29-40470/bucky-barnes-respect-thread/92-662398/?
I can’t decide
I’m torn
but I’m leaning towards Snake better tech, more exp and is vocied by David Hayter
He just loses his camo the camo part of the suit.
He still has the strength abilities. Sorry about the late reply. I will be back with more Winter Soldier stuff.
I like the pictures Hitman, as I said earlier, I will be back with some Winter Soldier info/feats.
Okay so here is some information on Bucky:
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“Master Martial Artist: Barnes is a dangerously skilled martial artist and hand-to-hand combatant. He received training from World War Two hand-to-hand combat luminaries William Essart Fairbairn and Colonel Rex Applegate as well as Captain America (Steve Rogers) in multiple martial arts, and acrobatics as a teenager during WWII and was trained in more of them while being molded into an assassin by the Soviet Union. He has single-handedly beaten Crossbones, a squad of SHIELD agents, Wolverine and the Black Widow, defeated a regiment of Hydra agents alongside the Young Avengers, in combat and fought Captain America (Steve Rogers) and Iron Man to a standstill.”
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Although I’m doubtful this will turn into a hand-to-hand fight.
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“Expert Marksman: He is an extremely accurate marksman. Skilled in sharpshooting and knife throwing.”
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I’ll still look for feats on that.
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“Advanced Scout: Barnes is a very gifted scout and adept at stealth and concealment.”
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“Expert Spy: He is an expert in the field of espionage thanks largely to World War Two hand-to-hand combat luminaries William Essart Fairbairn and Colonel Rex Applegate, his former partner, Steve Rogers, the United States military, British SAS regiment, and the Russian Government. He is skilled in stealth, demolitions, survival, deducing other persons ways of thinking and other fields.”
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“Expert Assassin: Barnes is an adept of his generation as Matthew Murdock and Elektra Natchios is of theirs, possibly the most lethal assassin in the marvel universe rivaling others such as Bullseye or Elektra. During an operation on the Russian Front with the Invaders, Barnes has from concealment thrown a 60 centimeters-long knife to penetrate the winter uniform outer garment of a German soldier with such accuracy as to pierce his heart in high arctic winds several meters. Barnes has mastered and implemented several methods to silently eliminate sentries with bladed weapons, garrotes or his bare hands, making him as lethal in his own way as his former Invader teammates, the Torches, Union Jack or Namor. He is a master at stealth and tracking and is very intelligent. He was able to render Wolverine’s superhumanly acute senses such as smell completely useless by luring him to an abandoned warehouse that was completely soaked on the inside with oil and even soaking himself to make it so that Wolverine could not detect him. Barnes has made a habit out of constantly studying his surroundings and depicting what he can and cannot do in whatever situation he should fall in much like his former partner, Captain America before his death. During Barnes’ visit to the Captain America exhibit that had been made to honor him after his death, he was constantly detecting potential ways to sneak in and out of the museum and the room without being detected and only taking out a small number of security to do so. The Black Widow stated to Tony Stark that he was one of the most dangerous men she knew.”
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Okay, so I am hopeful this provides some information on Winter Soldier’s skills. In the meantime I will look up some scans.
Oh, BTW, even if Snake cuts off Bucky’s cybernetic arm, it can move and attack by itself.
i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/CA_33_DCP_0005.jpg
i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/CA_33_DCP_0007.jpg
Also, Bucky’s handgun was able to stun Ares. It was only for a few second, but still. Considering that Ares has mixed it up with Hulk, thats a pretty good handgun: i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Equipment/AresDurability02.jpg
“Oh, BTW, even if Snake cuts off Bucky’s cybernetic arm, it can move and attack by itself.”
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That’s useful info how exactly?
Becuase if someone argues that once Snake cuts off Bucky’s arm, its over, I can prove them wrong.
Anyway, so far, whos winning?
“Becuase if someone argues that once Snake cuts off Bucky’s arm, its over, I can prove them wrong.”
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Snake isn’t Raiden, the closest thing he has to a bladed weapon is his knife. You are just giving out obscure tid bits of information.
Knocking Ares off him is actually kind of impressive.
But is WS sharp enough to spot snake before Snake puts a .45 in his head? Does he have advanced senses?
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Really, the arm isn’t going to do much. the EMP is useful but it can’t be very strong. After all, it has to be able to withstand it’s own attack. Snake uses Milspec gear which is generally ruggedized for some level of EMP resistance. Chaff works against most sensitive electronics like radar but there’s little reason to believe that the octo-camo or solid eye hasn’t been hardened against some level of EMP.
@Belisaurius:
“But is WS sharp enough to spot snake before Snake puts a .45 in his head? Does he have advanced senses?”
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Bucky is an expert marksman and a trained assassin.
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“the EMP is useful but it can’t be very strong. After all, it has to be able to withstand it’s own attack. Snake uses Milspec gear which is generally ruggedized for some level of EMP resistance.”
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You explained why the arm probably isn’t affected by what it discharges. As I already stated before, the arm could be EMP hardened. It would have stopped Tony Stark’s armor if he didn’t shut down his armor and used some sort of protection.
Trained assassin and expert marksman wouldn’t help Bucky find Snake. While he may lack Octocamo, Snake is capable of stealth especially in a terrain he’s familiar with.
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Let’s see some stealth from Bucky or location feats if he has any.
@Soldier’s Shadow:
“Trained assassin and expert marksman wouldn’t help Bucky find Snake.”
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Who said anything about Bucky finding Snake?
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“While he may lack Octocamo, Snake is capable of stealth especially in a terrain he’s familiar with.
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Let’s see some stealth from Bucky or location feats if he has any.”
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All I have is Marvel Wiki.
Yeah, stealth feats might be tricky to find. But as stated in my larger post. Bucky is a “advanced scout” it says he is very gifted at stealth and concealment.
Fuck octacamo !!!
It’s just a suit , I’m pretty sure snake doesnt need it anyways .
“Fuck octacamo !!!”
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One of the dumbest things you have said to date. Get the fuck out of this thread.
Shows what you know, Knightbreaker. It’s more than a stealth suit. Think before you out yourself like that.
Is knightbreaker117 a troll?
“Is knightbreaker117 a troll?”
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Either that or a massive idiot. Probably both since they go hand in hand.
No, trolls have to be smart to be actual trolls and not what people think are trolls.
They’re all imbeciles in my opinion.
Gee, thanks.
Implying that you are a “smart troll”?
A troll that knows when it’s necessary.
And that’s when exactly?
When among friends and people who don’t mind. Not here. I know better. Which is why I don’t do it here.
Then that’s not really trolling now is it?
@Drynn
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Just hoping for feats. This debate’s sadly been slow
Too many people know about Snake, too little about Winter, that’s the problem.
I’m having trouble locating “stealth” feats for Winter Soldier. I’m sure he breaks into Hydra and AIM bases all the time, however I’m still in the process of looking for scans of it.
@Soldier’s Shadow:
It has been. I wanted to find some stealth feats, but I couldn’t find any.
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@TheSorrow:
Yep. A conclusion can only be made when there is enough information for both characters. The Camo Suit allowed Snake to move like when he was in his prime, correct? He may still have the 11 millisecond reaction time if so.
“The Camo Suit allowed Snake to move like when he was in his prime, correct?”
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Yes, I don’t see any big differences in his physical abilities between games.
@TheSorrow:
“Yes, I don’t see any big differences in his physical abilities between games.”
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Reaction time takes longer as one ages, which is why I asked.
“Reaction time takes longer as one ages, which is why I asked.”
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Well he did dodge a shot from the Railgun.
@TheSorrow:
“Well he did dodge a shot from the Railgun.”
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Oh, so it was MGS4 where he did that, huh? I’ve heard about that, but I’ve been curious to see where I could look for that.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjgVBVHc9hQ&feature=related
Skip to 3:08
this is a slow debate. well im taking snakes side until someone can show some pretty impressive feats from w.s.
Someone will come… Eventually.
“well im taking snakes side until someone can show some pretty impressive feats from w.s.”
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Did you even look at some of the feats posted? Granted they didn’t really show much of his stealth abilities, but they were quite impressive. I mean stunning Ares is pretty impressive.
Even snake as an old man could beat the tar out of the winter soilder.
Snake owns every single weapon he has. It’s the same exact thing if we were talking about Dante acquiring a weapon after killing a boss. That’s his standard load out from his latest incarnation.
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By that logic Marcus Fenix owns every weapon in the C.O.G. because he uses after killing the berseker
Prove to me how Snake Beats Bucky
www.comicvine.com/bucky-barnes/29-40470/bucky-barnes-respect-thread/92-662398/?
going by feats bucky lol stomps.
“By that logic Marcus Fenix owns every weapon in the C.O.G. because he uses after killing the berseker”
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Since when did Gears of War become relevant? Did he actually buy the weapons he uses? I don’t think so. Not the same thing.
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“Prove to me how Snake Beats Bucky”
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Having a wide variety of weapons to choose from. A railgun that hits with the power of main battle tank and use thermal optics. Considering this fight takes place in Shadow Moses, Winter Soldier is going to be like a Christmas light.
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He also has Face Camo, an item that can not only mimic it’s surroundings, but mimic the faces of anyone it has seen. Winter is going to have some trouble identifying his target.
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So prove to me what Winter can do to out-stealth Snake.
1.Oh yes it’s going to be real hard to find out who snake is yah I wouldn’t think the giant rail gun on his back sticking out is not going to visible
2. WTF? this isn’t a stealth competition, Snake is severely overrated Sam Fisher would mop the floor with him in stealth but that doesn’t matter because stealth has nothing to do with this battle
3.Winter Soldier is smarter,stronger, more durable and possibly even faster
have a giant rail gun and a pistol is not an amazing load out making Snake a god, in a matter of fact that’s nearly useless in close range combat, and don’t bring up the bullsh*t of his unlimited ammo because that’s obviously game mechanic
Has W.S ever tanked a rail gun or bullet to the head, snake knows this place so he can hide easily and he knows the good laces to hide along side his eye patch with the heat vision. This is going to be hard for W.S
granted WS can be a strong as Carmine has clearly stated above, but Snake just seems to have much more expirience in my opinion. and TheSorrow has good points in terms of Snakes stealth. i just dont see how snake cant win :p
“1.Oh yes it’s going to be real hard to find out who snake is yah I wouldn’t think the giant rail gun on his back sticking out is not going to visible”
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In a blizzard? Yes, yes it will.
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“2. WTF? this isn’t a stealth competition, Snake is severely overrated Sam Fisher would mop the floor with him in stealth but that doesn’t matter because stealth has nothing to do with this battle’
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Clearly you didn’t read the description. This fight takes on Shadow Moses, a place Snake knows very well. He is all about stealth and you would have to be retarded to think this would play out any other way.
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“a giant rail gun and a pistol is not an amazing load out making Snake a god”
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He has a lot more than that you idiot. Just how much do you even know about Snake anyway?
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“in a matter of fact that’s nearly useless in close range combat”
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Assuming Winter will even get close enough to stop him.
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“and don’t bring up the bullsh*t of his unlimited ammo because that’s obviously game mechanic”
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I don’t need to, Snake has more than enough in his arsenal to wipe him off the map.