Graviton Vs Superman

Hermit September 7, 2012 at 7:26 am - #1

Graviton must be very powerful to take Composite Superman.
Can we get some feats?

StealthRanger September 7, 2012 at 8:00 am - #2

Idk about Gravitron but… initial bets with Supes in the first 3 scenarios, and Supes likely loses the last scenario (New 52 hurr durr)

GuardianAngel1911 September 7, 2012 at 8:15 am - #3

depends how affected by gravity any one incarnation of Supes is, Graviton is usually a match for any Avengers lineup or the Thunderbolts.

Harbinger Of Pastries September 7, 2012 at 8:20 am - #4

Pretty sure Supes could just speed blitz on the first 3. Don’t know how fast new 52 Supes is.

Soulerous September 7, 2012 at 8:46 am - #5

I am particularly interested in seeing feats for New 52 Superman. I’ve not seen any, thus far.
~
I’m with you all on Kal-El winning in the first three scenarios. Though I know nothing of Graviton. I doubt he has superluminal reaction time.
~
I’m reading on Wikipedia that Graviton can generate force fields strong enough to withstand the sun itself, hold Thor, the Hulk, and Hercules in stasis, and fire graviton beams with the destructive power of 20,000 pounds of TNT, as well as a myriad of other things. If anyone can confirm these things, I’m thinking he may be the victor over Superman’s current incarnation.

GuardianAngel1911 September 7, 2012 at 8:59 am - #6

Oh yes Supermans infamous speedblitz tactic
as seen
scifiblock.com/images/comics/superman-coming-atlas-hit.png/img against Atlas
———
media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33032/1568997-darkseid_vs_superman_super.jpg and Darkseid to great effect
————–
media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/159198-147059-mongul_super.JPG and to easily curbstomp Mongol
I say this all sarcastically of course as anyone who looks at the shown feats can tell. Those guys are people Superman doesn’t hold back against normally, or at least doesn’t have to as much, if at all in Darkseids case. Which is usually when he goes all out, against a mortal character I don’t see him unleashing his full power into a speed blitz that even against people it would give him the needed boost to beat he doesn’t.
Now why don’t we here some arguments about him resisting massive amounts of gravity that would crush a mortal into a singularity. Or him resisting powers of a similar nature. Graviton has held back the entire Avengers team including Thor who is easily equal to Superman in strength. imageshack.us/f/443/avengers15913sy3.jpg/
So while Superman may be able to speedblitz, it’s rarely his first move, he rarely uses his full speed in combat and there is no reason to assume that he’s going to feel like copying the Flash’s only available strategy (Flash speedblitz’s cause thats his only move that won’t end with him on the wrong end of a potentially immensely more powerful opponent) we have to go based on what we know about the characters and Supes rarely relies on his speed to win. Let’s leave the could’s out of this for now and focus on what we know the characters are most likely to do.
Speedblitz is not the be all end all in fights and it shouldn’t be treated as such otherwise it defeats the entire purpose of this site to debate what the characters are capable of.
Oh another Superman match, oh hi opponent isn’t above FTL Superman speedblitzes and we all wasted our time looking at the match. That is not how we should look at it.
I agree Supes can win the first three rounds but we shouldn’t base it only on Speed, there are so many factors to consider, what affect would the gravity alteration have on Superman’s abilities, has Superman ever been affected by a different planets gravity in any way when he was on that planet. If characters like Thor and Hulk can’t outright break out of his gravity powers and characters with flight can’t use their flight to exploit it why should Superman be able to.
imageshack.us/f/443/avengers15913sy3.jpg/
Vision isn’t even able to use his density control to escape, Superman may not be able to escape if caught in a gravity trap like that. However can increasing the gravity enough kill Superman, that’s what we should look at, has any amount of increased gravity injured or bothered Superman in the past.

Polloloko September 7, 2012 at 9:04 am - #7

Were do they find that picture of Superman O.O?

Skalkorik13 September 7, 2012 at 9:28 am - #8

Thank you GA … Im so sick and tired of everyone just pretty much using “speed blitz” as their excuse for any character who is fast … If Graviton can pin down the entire team of Avengers .. I think he can give Supes a run for him money

Skalkorik13 September 7, 2012 at 9:39 am - #9

Sorry for double post … but just read : “Hall’s single most ambitious display of power was when he held almost every Marvel hero in stasis, including the whole Fantastic Four, some of the X-Men and such physical powerhouses as Thor, Hercules, the Hulk and Namor, and began using his powers to try reshaping the Earth in his image.” … Now thats pretty impressive

GuardianAngel1911 September 7, 2012 at 9:51 am - #10

@Skalkorik13
A scan of that one could give him an easy win against current Superman, it gives him a very good chance with the others, its a matter of will gravity attacks hurt or kill Superman.

Shgon Dunstan September 7, 2012 at 10:10 am - #11

“Phase 1: Pre-Crisis Superman vs. Peak Graviton.”
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Pre-Crisis Superman easily defeats Graviton with his anti-Graviton power.
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“Phase 2: Post Crisis Superman vs. Peak Graviton.”
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Not really sure, but I’ll go with the “speed blitz” everyone else has been talking about.
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“Phase 3: Composite Superman vs. Peak Graviton.”
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…Composite Superman is God… Literally…. Like he actually is God. Look up “The sword of Superman”.
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“Phase 4: New 52 Superman vs. Current Graviton.”
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Like Post Crisis Superman, but even less sure of the speed blitz.

Soulerous September 7, 2012 at 10:13 am - #12

Composite superman, at least, has enough strength to wipe out a solar system of planets with a sneeze. Is that from Pre-Crisis Superman? I’ve also heard something about his strength being literally infinite, but I never personally saw verification for this and I find it hard to believe.
~
It’s true that Superman very likely wouldn’t open with a speedblitz, providing Graviton ample opportunity to immobilize him and wreak havoc.
~
This seems to be a good match. More must flock to it!

Tails111 September 7, 2012 at 10:19 am - #13

As much as I think Graviton is a cool villain, I’m gonna have to go with Superman for the first three matches.

On the fourth match, however, I’m leaning with Graviton. I’ve heard some not-so-great things about New 52 Superman strengthwise.

Tails111 September 7, 2012 at 10:36 am - #14

BTW, for those interested, here is part of the fight between the Avengers and Graviton from the new show:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyM7LsOXQDk

GuardianAngel1911 September 7, 2012 at 11:02 am - #15

Composite Supes can bring planets and civilizations back to life, and is able to ascend people into beings like himself. He blinks and incinerates the universe so theres not a point because of that including the Superman in the sun for however many hundreds of thousands of years. That round is spite
Pre crisis I don’t know if Gaviton can beat but I think Graviton stands a decent chance in 3 of four rounds

Proto-Mind September 7, 2012 at 11:09 am - #16

Gravity shouldn’t be a real problem for the Man of Steel, who can relax in stars just fine and escape black holes.
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52 Supes moves at the speed of lightning.

Shgon Dunstan September 7, 2012 at 11:09 am - #17

“Pre crisis I don’t know if Gaviton can beat but I think Graviton stands a decent chance in 3 of four rounds”
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but Pre-Crisis Superman is silver-age Superman.
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As in the Superman that’s from the same time period as the old Batman TV show, but unlike that Batman uses “Random Superpower Of The Plot” instead of “Random Gadget Of The Plot”…
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Like I said, Pre-Crisis Superman easily defeats Graviton with his anti-Graviton power.

Proto-Mind September 7, 2012 at 11:11 am - #18

Composite is broken. You have an alien god who is “Faster than a speeding Tachyon, more powerful than a collapsing star, and able to leap between planets in a single bound.”

Skalkorik13 September 7, 2012 at 11:16 am - #19

imageshack.us/photo/my-images/183/avengers1595bt6.jpg/
.
media.photobucket.com/image/recent/HoustonTexas012/TB57a.jpg
.
He hardly has anything except for marvel wiki quotes … but those 2 are the best images … first is just a small group of the avengers … the second is … well … a lot of the marvel universe

Khazit September 7, 2012 at 12:30 pm - #20

Have no idea about the gravy-guy, but I think that the first 3 sup get it, cause gravity was never a problem to him (flying in and out from star (and black hole)??)

Hac148 September 7, 2012 at 1:20 pm - #21

that true, if superman had no problem with the force of a black hole, which is pretty much the top of the line as far as gravities power is concerned, then i doubt there is anything that graviton can throw at him that he cant just shrug off in like a second.

itisburgers September 7, 2012 at 1:36 pm - #22

Urr Durr lets have Superman fight a gravity based villian

Contains Black hole
www.gophoto.it/view.php?i=http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9199/supermanblackhole0015ak.jpg#.UEovxlErJEM

Survives “million nuclear bomb” level blast
img377.imageshack.us/img377/3932/08222005121910pm8yp.jpg
img377.imageshack.us/img377/6301/089054127na.jpg

Escaping a double Blackhole
img367.imageshack.us/img367/5858/untitled138wy8fy.jpg
img367.imageshack.us/img367/5207/untitled140kt3ew.jpg
img367.imageshack.us/img367/938/untitled152oe8eq.jpg
img367.imageshack.us/img367/8946/untitled166ov4wo.jpg

Slayer Lowk September 7, 2012 at 1:46 pm - #23

ZomBody To Love September 7, 2012 at 1:58 pm - #24

“Blackhole
media.animevice.com/uploads/0/576/525475-1724817_1340781_superman_speed_of_light_super_super.jpg”
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What did I just see?

a.h.k. September 7, 2012 at 3:39 pm - #25

Oh my, my match was posted. Go me.

On topic, I think it’s fair to say that the only two real fights here are phases 2 and 4.

Slayer Lowk September 7, 2012 at 3:58 pm - #26

Slayer Lowk September 7, 2012 at 4:02 pm - #27

“What did I just see?”
-
Superman, weird creature, in a blackhole, accelerating to the speed of light.
In short, some crazy ass comic type shit.

Slayer Lowk September 7, 2012 at 4:29 pm - #28

“52 Supes moves at the speed of lightning.”
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Iirc one of the future heroes(they studied supes) stated he was faster. Hold on… Here
media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/110453/2371981-2184099_s6.jpg

GuardianAngel1911 September 7, 2012 at 4:49 pm - #29

media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/52044/1627807-red_hulk_vs_thor_11_super.jpg
Thor has flown in and out of Black Holes, and as shown above Graviton held him. Though there could be other explanations I don’t know and can’t say with certainty.

GuardianAngel1911 September 7, 2012 at 5:00 pm - #30

point is comic Black holes may not be quite the same end all gravity well in comics.

Proto-Mind September 7, 2012 at 5:09 pm - #31

@Slayer Lowk:
“Iirc one of the future heroes(they studied supes) stated he was faster. Hold on… Here
media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/110453/2371981-2184099_s6.jpg”
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Thanks. I knew there were two panels posted somewhere, but I was thinking of the first one where the yellow box said his speed was on par with lightning or something. This was another one that came in mind, but I didn’t remember the exact words.

Proto-Mind September 7, 2012 at 5:10 pm - #32

Of course, “faster than lightning” can be hyperbolic when it comes to speed. In the case of Superman, though, I’d be inclined to take it literally, since I’m positive DC is going to slowly amp up this Superman over time.

Slayer Lowk September 7, 2012 at 5:15 pm - #33

“Thor has flown in and out of Black Holes, and as shown above Graviton held him. Though there could be other explanations I don’t know and can’t say with certainty.”
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You asked if he could handle a certain force, I just showed that he could and still be capable in extreme gravity.
Also Thor seems too have gotten to him before the event horizon which is the “so strong no light escape, have to move faster than that” thing occurs. Supes was apparently past that point.

GuardianAngel1911 September 7, 2012 at 5:45 pm - #34

I know, just blackhole was presented as an argument so I posted a potential counter. Supes can probably win the majority, but I’d like to at least make this debated.

GuardianAngel1911 September 7, 2012 at 6:07 pm - #35

also it says Red Hulk was already near the horizon, near enough he didn’t anticipate help for Rulk, so Thor may have had to cross or get near at least, I can’t say for sure.

itisburgers September 7, 2012 at 6:32 pm - #36

@GA
Thor being held by Graviton happened first, Thor got stronger and can escape greater gravities now.

GuardianAngel1911 September 7, 2012 at 6:35 pm - #37

@Itis
eh, I wasn’t sure if it was after he got stronger or not. figured at least had to put effort into it.

Shgon Dunstan September 7, 2012 at 6:38 pm - #38

….So is the feeling I’m getting about Graviton being a Z-list villain, who shows up maybe once every 15-20 years correct?

Rorschach September 7, 2012 at 8:08 pm - #39

Silver Age Superman can literally sneeze Graviton from existence.
lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/ss4-goku-vs-pre-crisis-superman-14318.jpg
Can’t remember if this was also Silver Age or not, but, Superman could use his superbreath on him.
images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb57886/superman/images/2/20/Super_Breath_Earth.jpg
Forgot which Superman this was, but, he could punch reality.
i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn113/pfrangip/comics/Realityalterpunch2.jpg
Dragging planets by a chain.
media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/5469/695133-superboytowingplanets_super.jpg
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I typed in Post Crisis Superman on Google Chrome, and this came up.
media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/108927/2155408-5.jpg
Don’t know when this was, but Superman is able to just reach The Flash.
www.geeksofdoom.com/GoD/img/2011/03/2011-03-21-supes_flash.jpg
Superman’s heat vision.
media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/82702/2280139-supermanheatvisionearth.png
Superman breaks the very bonds of infinity.
media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/98086/1861956-dccp29_05_super.jpg
Don’t know how the other scenarios would go.
After reading how Superman evaded 2 Black Holes, which Superman is that, and is Graviton able to produce anywhere near that much gravity?

Soulerous September 7, 2012 at 8:27 pm - #40

That further cements my belief that comics were created by a bunch of goofballs.
~
Does Kal-El get to use his magnificent brick wall-making eye beams?

Rhododendron September 7, 2012 at 8:54 pm - #41

Graviton? I remember him from avengers earths mightiest heroes.In that hes got about the same amount of gravity manipulation as a black hole acording to stark….but the guy was a complete dumbass with his powers. Sending iron man into space and hulk and thor down to earth? Any guy with half a brain cell would bfr the following into space:ant/giant man,hulk and wasp) but no he had to fight them all at once

GuardianAngel1911 September 7, 2012 at 9:01 pm - #42

@Soulerous
lol

Proto-Mind September 7, 2012 at 9:07 pm - #43

That Superman who is pushing against 200 quintillion tons is All-Star Superman. This is after he has been exposed to so much solar radiation that it’s starting to kill him.
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As for the heat vision traveling 200,000 miles, presumably in 1 second. That is equal to 321,868,800 m/s. The speed of light travels 299,792,458 m/s. It’s FTL, but negligible. It’s already confirmed Superman’s heat vision is made of microwaves. Microwaves, like light, travel at light speed in a vacuum.

Rhododendron September 7, 2012 at 9:16 pm - #44

@Proto-Mind
But hows superman gonna handel the gravity it litterally could slow him down to a standstill of implying if graviton doesn’t derp out.

Rorschach September 7, 2012 at 9:30 pm - #45

“That Superman who is pushing against 200 quintillion tons is All-Star Superman. This is after he has been exposed to so much solar radiation that it’s starting to kill him.”
Oh. ok.
The Heat vision was mainly to show how fast Superman can shoot it.
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Seeing all those New 52 Supes images in Slayer Lowk’s comment, first off, it actually looks decent. Second, New 52 Superman isn’t as bad as I thought, but still not up to superbreath blows planets from orbit, sneezing universes away, or pulling 14 planets using a chain through the universe.
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“That further cements my belief that comics were created by a bunch of goofballs.”
I couldn’t agree more. It makes Superman hilariously powerful. I remember telling a group of students about Superman punching reality, but couldn’t say it with a straight face. When I did manage to say it, we were all bursting with laughter, and none of them believed me. I was laughing at how ridiculous it really sounded.

Rhododendron September 7, 2012 at 9:39 pm - #46

So I figure no one has a argument for superman getting time stopped then?

Aelfinn September 7, 2012 at 9:47 pm - #47

“So I figure no one has a argument for superman getting time stopped then?”
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If Superman can escape two black holes, then time dilation shouldn’t affect him greatly.
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Also, did you change your name to Rhododendron? That’s actually kinda funny.

Rhododendron September 7, 2012 at 9:56 pm - #48

@Aelfinn
“If Superman can escape two black holes, then time dilation shouldn’t affect him greatly”
——
^Scans? cause iirc his strength is about 200 sextrillion tons an arm. and massive black holes engulf stars easily. The only reason I’m not thinking graviton would win is due to his huge cis in avengers hed problay get dropped(if the cis is actually carried from the comic but i have no idea)
—–
“Also, did you change your name to Rhododendron? That’s actually kinda funny.”
——-
^Maybe now “dr doctor” will get the name right ……lol
——-

Slayer Lowk September 7, 2012 at 11:24 pm - #49

“cause iirc his strength is about 200 sextrillion tons an arm. and massive black holes engulf stars easily.”
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It wasn’t a strength feat. It was a durability/speed feat.

Tarbel September 8, 2012 at 12:55 am - #50

“200 sextrillion tons”
200 quintillion or:
200,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons
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Earth weighs about
6,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000 tons
-
-
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Technically, superman’s reaction time should be relativistic, but whatever.

Commander Cross September 8, 2012 at 2:11 am - #51

@Grand General Rorschach

Is that Gallows Humor I see, there?

Because its hilarious!

*Back to kombat at hand*

I wonder…depending on how this match turns out, you think Graviton might see more matches in the near future?

Darthgrim September 8, 2012 at 5:22 am - #52

Pre-Crisis Godstomps the fuck out of him.
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Post Crisis is probably a more balanced match.
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Composite rapes even harder than Pre-Crisis.
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N52 loses.

Slayer Lowk September 8, 2012 at 5:36 am - #53

This was the Ironman instance I was talking about earlier.
media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/43469/1080583-iron_man_v4_08___10_ocd_horus_super.jpg
media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/43469/1080586-iron_man_v4_08___11_ocd_horus_super.jpg
media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/43469/1080588-iron_man_v4_08___12_ocd_horus_super.jpg
media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/43469/1080595-iron_man_v4_08___13_ocd_horus_super.jpg
media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/43469/1080600-iron_man_v4_08___14_ocd_horus_super.jpg
—
So as long as N52 Supes can keep the pressure on him using speed, strength, and his other powers like HV; he should be able to pull a when through against current Graviton.

Slayer Lowk September 8, 2012 at 5:58 am - #54

Pull a win, not when. How did I miss that….

Rorschach September 8, 2012 at 9:59 am - #55

“^Scans? cause iirc his strength is about 200 sextrillion tons an arm. and massive black holes engulf stars easily.”
Comment #22
“So as long as N52 Supes can keep the pressure on him using speed, strength, and his other powers like HV; he should be able to pull a when through against current Graviton.”
Wow. So, this is a near complete stomp by Superman.
“Is that Gallows Humor I see, there?”
The event actually happened in a heated debate about Superman some time ago, but, I guess.
“I wonder…depending on how this match turns out, you think Graviton might see more matches in the near future?”
It’s likely, but very improbable. Can’t really judge his abilities when he’s being stomped in the first three scenarios. The only one that he could possibly win is the fourth, but even that Superman can pull out a win in that scenario.

Commander Cross September 8, 2012 at 2:14 pm - #56

Is Graviton FTL + Badass, apparently?

The Geek Lord September 8, 2012 at 4:56 pm - #57

Wait, this guy was real??
I thought they just dreamed him up for the ‘Earth’s Mightiest Heroes’ show.
Holy crap.
Well, imma goin with Graviton, because he decked Thor.

Darthgrim September 10, 2012 at 12:15 am - #58

Pre-crisis is fast enough to fly through the Multiverse in minutes.
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I’m not even sure how the multiverse can be traversed like that.
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He can also take 100 Galaxies worth of magnetic energy to the face and lol it off.
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Not to even mention that he can sneeze out solar systems.
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Compostie has the Sword of Superman. Enough said.

Shgon Dunstan September 10, 2012 at 12:34 am - #59

@
“Compostie has the Sword of Superman. Enough said.”
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It’s kind of hard to overstate the whole “becomes one with The Presence” thing.
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And for those who don’t know, The Presence=DC God.

Rhododendron September 10, 2012 at 12:52 am - #60

graviton via virtue of CIS loses horribly in probably all scenarios. Just watch the avengers episode to see what I mean…

Metacosmic Entity September 11, 2012 at 2:27 am - #61

What’s PIS, and what’s CIS??? Anyway, Superman all incarnations would beat Graviton but at his peak, Graviton would give Supes a fat run for his money. He could decrease Superman’s personal gravity so that he’s sent hurtling away from earth then send him to a place where he has no access to yellow sunlight. But then again Graviton is Reed-level genius and he could just get some Kryptonite…

Metacosmic Entity September 11, 2012 at 2:37 am - #62

And people seem to think that Graviton can only increase your personal density. He made that stupid mistake with Hulk in the cartoon, but in the comics he isn’t so dumbed down. Add elemental force to genius level intellect. I do stand that Clark would win but Graviton will not go down without a fight… He will appreciate how strong and durable Superman is so he won’t try just crushing him against Earth coz we all know that would be stupid. He would most likely first get Clark as Far away from yellow sunlight as possible, have some Kryptonite knuckle dusters ready, then make sure he wears Supes out first

Rhododendron September 11, 2012 at 2:42 am - #63

@Metacosmic Entity
PIS=plot induced stupidity= example:the protagonist always winning
CIS=Character induced stupidity=example:see post 41 on this thread.(aka characters being retards)

Slayer Lowk September 11, 2012 at 5:32 am - #64

“He could decrease Superman’s personal gravity so that he’s sent hurtling away from earth then send him to a place where he has no access to yellow sunlight.”
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Few things wrong with that.
1. Wouldn’t decreasing gravity just make it easier for supes to fly since, well; he’s no longer pushing against it like normal when he regularly defies it?
2. Superman can still fly. He has a form of travel while airborne he can control which way he goes.
3. Once he hits space it really wouldn’t matter how much gravity is decreased for him since its space. And now he’s absorbing pure unfiltered solar radiation and could just fly back for a superspeed sneak attack.
4. Wouldn’t hurtling from the sunlight, during which again he’s being exposed to pure solar power. And again he could just fly back.
===
“But then again Graviton is Reed-level genius and he could just get some Kryptonite…”
-
He doesn’t know thats superman’s weakness, nor does he know a place in which to obtain any.

Rhododendron September 11, 2012 at 5:45 am - #65

Didn’t supes fly though a ‘red’ sun that was surrounded by kryptonite? It’s severly bad writing but we ate also using comp supes.

xendrix85 February 21, 2013 at 11:55 pm - #66

well superman easily wins in all forms and cases…graviton was beat 1 on 1 by iron man due to fighting graviton at mach 3 and he could not handle it…not to mention superman POST crisis contained a black hole yes a mother effin black hole in his hands….. new 52 feats he benched pressed the earths weight for 5 days straight at the center of the earth so no sunlight…he produced 1 drop of sweat and complained it wasn’t enough weight, then he read and memorized every medical book ever published in 5 mins and performed a surgery on lois lane = to 10 years medical experience… so obviously he can move and think and learn at FTL speeds… then he flew from pluto to earth in approx 1 minute…. thats over 260 times the speed of light….. so im pretty damn sure he easily solo’s graviton like he is nothing… but on the flip side the new 52 darkseid is amazing and solo’d the big 7 easy and 1 shot superman with omega beam….

VunderGuy March 12, 2013 at 8:25 am - #67

@xendrix85

Yeah but, the problem with New-52 Darkseid is that he isn’t…Darkseid.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but they seemed to have turned one of the most epic schemers and plotters in all the DC Universe known for going for manipulation and subterfuge generally as his first options and turned him into a generic alien conqueror.

Professor ParaLowk March 12, 2013 at 3:52 pm - #68

“Correct me if I’m wrong, but they seemed to have turned one of the most epic schemers and plotters in all the DC Universe known for going for manipulation and subterfuge generally as his first options and turned him into a generic alien conqueror.”
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They basically just used him as a threat to get the league together. Apparently he’s been going throughout the multiverse and looking for his daugther. Those in his way just happen to suffer from the conquering. So he didn’t really get the time he deserved thanks to the plot device cyborg.
Earth 2 got a war where steppenwolf got a chance to show off.