Suggested By Draco
Here we have 2 great fighters which will go head to head in 2 different scenarios:
First Scenario:
Third Echelon has a bead on a high priority target that has evaded them for some time now. They are sending their best Splinter Cell agent Sam Fisher to get the job done. The Layout is 47′s hideout, a large mansion with many rooms, windows, and doors along with a large dining room in the very center on ground floor. Outside there will be a big lawn with a hedge on the perimeter. Agent 47 starts out in his basement where he is cleaning and fixing his weapons as he is reading his report. His company sends him information that a agent will be after him, he does not know who nor what he is capable of but he has ten minutes of prep time before the agent arrives.
Sam Fisher, on the other hand, has had a day of prep time. Studying 47′s methods and look as well as getting the necessary gear to take him down. As approaches the house he thinks of the best way to get inside.
Each has all their equipment at hand.
Will Sam kill the enemy agent?
Or will he just end up as another man in a body bag.
Second scenario:
Agent 47 (Hitman) has been given a target, currently he is in the city of New York and he knows where he is in a few miles radius.
Sam Fisher has been on the run from Third Echelon for a while now, but is still being tracked by Splinter Cells. He knows that he’s being tracked by at least 11 Splinter Cells one of which is Actually 47.
The Splinter cells are trying to find and eliminate Sam Fisher. But they get a new Target, Agent 47. Now they must eliminate both of them by any means possible.
Fisher must escape the Splinter Cells and 47 by getting to an extraction point in the form of a cruise. It will arrive 4 days from when this all starts and will leave within the week. 47′s goal is to kill Fisher by any means necessary, but cannot make himself known. both must avoid the enemy Splinter cells that are trying to take them both down.
Can Fisher escape?
Can 47 get the hit?
Or will they both succumb to the resources Third Echelon has at it’s disposal?
Who wins?
Loading ...
1st scenario, I can see Sam successfully completing the task, as that’s pretty much what he does.
-
2nd scenario is quite different, obviously. But, like in double agent, the whole: Sam emerges from the snowy environment and kills a (splinter cell?) thing, comes to mind.
Interesting match. I’ll see what others have to say
This kind of reminds me of the Solid Snake vs. Agent 47.
Scenario1: Many teams have tried to kill 47 and he has killed them. in a firefight i think sam could take it but if 47 plays the homefield advantage and keeps it stealth he could take it 6/10
Scenario2: i dont know about this one in splinter cell conviction Sam was ducking dodging and killing splinters cell every where plus he is the best so he knows what they are going to do where as 47 doesnt so i give it to Sam 7/10
Sam in the first scenario. Various way Sam can detect and Sam could map an entire area around him even through walls so traps become less effective, and 47 literally can hide.
Anyone notice Sam has a weird benjamin button thing going on where he seems to get more athletic and mobile as he gets older. Seriously look up Blacklist he’s the head of Fourth Echelon and still going on missions. He should be at a desk gruffly telling the younger spies what to do.
I mean 47 can’t hide.
Awesome match. Isn’t 47 a super human of sorts. I belive Mister Teal knows alot about 47.
Pretty sure 47 is a normal human like Fisher. Obviously he is well above average people in physical prowess and pain tolerance and all that, but definitely not superhuman level.
@locutus
Game 47 is a genetically augmented Assn. Movie version is normal human
@Primus
Got it, though I still wouldn’t call him a superhuman. Peak human performance in many areas would be more accurate.
“Peak human performance in many areas would be more accurate.”
-
That was my mistake. I’m not too familiar with either of these characters. 47 seems similar to the character from the new Bourne movies. He too is a genetically enhanced spy/assassin.
@locutus
Hence why I didn’t call him such. Merely started he is genetically augmented/superior to the layman. Of note though is his accuracy, stated to be near perfect, any deviation due to mechanical imperfections/inaccuracies, and his nigh imperviousness to stress or any other possibly distracting emotion. This is the extent of my knowledge though. I hope it helps you
How is 47 in hand-to-hand combat?
find second senario to be total choas and find that hard to prove either way. the first one… with mark and execute all sam needs is a line of sight. and he won’t miss. or is that just a game mechanic?
@thereabls
M&S is just a representation of how quick/accurate Sam can be. It like a mini cutscene displaying his ability.
I ment this to be the ‘composite’ version of 47. 1, because I like the movie version for his H2H combat skills but he isn’t much else.
-
2, because game 47 has better feats. I wouldn’t consider it Composite though…
-
In the first scenario, I believe that Sam could take the win if he make’s good use of his sonar goggle’s. But his goggles wont pick out 47′s mine’s as they constantly get past security gate’s and 47 could easily work him into a trap.
-
47 has the best starting loadout in the first because he has his whole armory right there when he’s informed. He could easily pick up a heavy machine-gun or his classic Silverballer’s and then run back for more ammunition.
-
Silverballer’s in the second Hitman game cause enemies to fly back from a couple shots. Using a sort of Magnum round. In Blood money he can upgrade it with a rapid fire, scope, extended clip, and an amazing silencer that only lets the sound of the gun mechanisms be heard.
-
Also, Sam is the one that is stealth based, especially in the first three games. 47 really hasn’t faced enemies like that, all of them have faced him up front and personal. Sam is the behind-the-back-and-snap-your-neck Guy.
-
While 47 can usually use stealth, his type of stealth would be of better use in the second scenario.
-
-
In the second scenario… the people Sam killed in Conviction weren’t splinter cells. But I think that in Double Agent (which I’ve never played) he MIGHT have. I’d need conformation.
-
but 47 also has access to his company’s resources. Which mean’s weapon drops and a Bio on his target.
-
He’ll know what Sam looks like and how he acts, and 47 COULD get the drop on him. Even if Sam was able to get away 47 could change costume and tactics and approach him at a different angle.
Some new stuff on Sam
(Showing precision, spider bot, grapple)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYGoFH6bWXg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
—
(gunplay, mobility, climbing, crossbow, electric arrow, facial recognition device)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Also it seems Sam is no stranger to disguing himself as well.
===
“1, because I like the movie version for his H2H combat skills but he isn’t much else.”
-
I think on of the recent videos for Hitman had some h2h vs nun assassins. I… I really didn’t like that movie.
===
“In the first scenario, I believe that Sam could take the win if he make’s good use of his sonar goggle’s. But his goggles wont pick out 47′s mine’s as they constantly get past security gate’s and 47 could easily work him into a trap.”
-
The goggles map out the areas and the object in it. As long as they are in range they should become mapped out like everything else. It’s not a metal detector or x-ray.
Also Sam’s EMP generator or EMP pistol attachment should help in shutting them down.
===
“47 has the best starting loadout in the first because he has his whole armory right there when he’s informed. He could easily pick up a heavy machine-gun or his classic Silverballer’s and then run back for more ammunition.”
-
Most of Sam’s gear is small enough to be carried on him. Sticky cams(explosive/noise maker/gas shooter), non lethal ammo, grenades, mines, wrist computer thing, grapple, sound mic, etc all tend to be pocket sized. He should also be able to carry at least three of his weapons on him. Iirc his standard rifle can works as either a grenade/other launcher or a sniper rifle. So carrying a lot of his stuff shoukd be pretty simple.
—
Couldn’t running back end up getting him cornered?
===
“the people Sam killed in Conviction weren’t splinter cells.”
-
He fought against Third Echelon, the ones that got to him during the first interrogation using his code name(lol, Panther) I think were the splinter cells. The other guys are from an organization called Black Arrow, a private military group.
===
“He’ll know what Sam looks like and how he acts, and 47 COULD get the drop on him. Even if Sam was able to get away 47 could change costume and tactics and approach him at a different angle.”
-
Really doubt a costume change is going to work on someone like Sam. Same for just about any spy types like bond, bourne, etc. They tend to be constantly on the look out especially if someone is coming after them. Not to mention the goggles can see through stuff so 47 might have to go weaponless and Sam has shown also having a facial recognition devices that should help him out.That or disguise himself as well and they can have a diguise battle.
===
“but 47 also has access to his company’s resources. Which mean’s weapon drops and a Bio on his target.”
-
Sam after conviction has got Grim, the science nerd, His shady friend that he went to save, and the president. So he’s should have some contacts as well.
===
For the second scenario, Sam should be able to stay mostly out of the way and on the move until the cruise arrives. After that swim onboard right before it leaves to avoid 47 or splinter cells that would probably be trying to intercept him. Scaling ship is something he’s done before in double agent so he should be fine.
@Lowk
“The goggles map out the areas and the object in it. As long as they are in range they should become mapped out like everything else. It’s not a metal detector or x-ray.
Also Sam’s EMP generator or EMP pistol attachment should help in shutting them down.”
-
I’ve never seen it work on a remote detonation device like what 47 uses. Plus it’s so small it probably couldn’t be detected or even be NOTICED. Also, it only maps out the area temporarily and takes away Sam’s use of the shadows if he keeps it on for long.
-
“Most of Sam’s gear is small enough to be carried on him. Sticky cams(explosive/noise maker/gas shooter), non lethal ammo, grenades, mines, wrist computer thing, grapple, sound mic, etc all tend to be pocket sized. He should also be able to carry at least three of his weapons on him. Iirc his standard rifle can works as either a grenade/other launcher or a sniper rifle. So carrying a lot of his stuff shoukd be pretty simple.”
-
His rifle is carried on his back and he also has the EMP backpack… But 47 also carries most of his ammunition and even a few guns right in the confine’s of his suit. Plus, thanks to his game incarnation, Hitman can tank a few bullets nearly anywhere. Not including his Bulletproof vest. But Sam has him beat in the CQC compartment, hands down, Krav Maga (or however it’s spelled) could beat his unless 47 decides to pull out blades.
-
“Sam after conviction has got Grim, the science nerd, His shady friend that he went to save, and the president. So he’s should have some contacts as well.”
-
Conviction is the Current Incarnation, you cannot go further with blacklist as it is not even released yet. Going off of things that could quite possibly change within the game itself is not a good business. In Conviction he may have Grim, but Sam was doing everything himself, Grim gave him a few saves and some information but that was it. There were no Contacts.
-
-
“Really doubt a costume change is going to work on someone like Sam. Same for just about any spy types like bond, bourne, etc. They tend to be constantly on the look out especially if someone is coming after them. Not to mention the goggles can see through stuff so 47 might have to go weaponless and Sam has shown also having a facial recognition devices that should help him out.That or disguise himself as well and they can have a diguise battle.”
-
Forgot to mention that Sam is only carry his Five-seven and EMP backpack with standard loadout… He’s in civillian clothes and is trying to escape, not being all splinter cell. If he had all his equipment it wouldn’t be a Survival scenario.
My bad…
-
Also, if I were to say, the Splinter cells could well win this if 47 distracts Sam.
-
One more thing, with the weapon drops and all of his assets, he could easily plan out Sam’s route and find a nice building to set up a sniper position with his custom WA2000 and snipe him. 47 is up for that, he stalked a place for 3 weeks waiting a target (or was it 3 days…) in hitman 2.
“Anyone notice Sam has a weird benjamin button thing going on where he seems to get more athletic and mobile as he gets older. Seriously look up Blacklist he’s the head of Fourth Echelon and still going on missions. He should be at a desk gruffly telling the younger spies what to do.”
-
INORIGHT?!?!
“I’ve never seen it work on a remote detonation device like what 47 uses.”
-
What the emps. They disrupt electronic. I don’t recall 47′s mine ever being stated to be hardened against emp or even the remote itself.
===
“Plus it’s so small it probably couldn’t be detected or even be NOTICED.”
-
Its a palm sized mine. Kind of like what Fisher himself has worked with. He’s walking into enemy territory and understands to lookout for traps.
===
“Also, it only maps out the area temporarily and takes away Sam’s use of the shadows if he keeps it on for long.”
-
How does it take away the use of shadows? All he has to do is wait and scope out the area.
===
“Conviction is the Current Incarnation, you cannot go further with blacklist as it is not even released yet.”
-
I was referring to that. Current is after he saved the president and saved Victor.
===
“In Conviction he may have Grim, but Sam was doing everything himself, Grim gave him a few saves and some information but that was it. There were no Contacts.”
-
Talking about afterwards the events had happened Sam has Grim, Victor, the nerd fanboy, and the president he could ask for intel or gear from.
===
“Forgot to mention that Sam is only carry his Five-seven and EMP backpack with standard loadout… He’s in civillian clothes and is trying to escape, not being all splinter cell.”
-
Well that sill leaves him with a few of his devices at least.
===
“He’s in civillian clothes and is trying to escape, not being all splinter cell.”
-
Could still disguise himself though right? Though being in New York in regular clothes should be enough cover. Maybe change what he was last wearing.
Not to mention Sam is a mile away and has shown to be more mobile so he should be able to keep enough distance between him and his pursuers. Especially if they try to catch up to him in a car. You’d have traffic a lights slowing you down. He could even cause a jam using his emp.
===
“One more thing, with the weapon drops and all of his assets, he could easily plan out Sam’s route and find a nice building to set up a sniper position with his custom WA2000 and snipe him.”
His assiests aren’t omnipresent. They’d only be good for pointing in his general direction as far as finding him goes. Planning a route might not work since unlike his previous marks, Sam doesn’t have a schedule to keep up, a planned route, or restricted to a single area.
He’s adept at disappearing and staying hidden even from his own agency and has prior knowledge/experience on them. 47 doesn’t, so pretending to be one is probably not a good idea. He’s actually in more danger then Sam is.
Due to his acrobatics, climbing, and mobility he isn’t as limited in where he can go. Streets, buildings, underground are equally accessible.
Sam has a good distance between him and his pursuers. And knows he’s being pursued.
Surrounded by buildings, cover, and other things that could obscure a snipe’s view
Could even slip away then go underground and resurface elsewhere putting further distance between them.
He’s got experience in avoiding cameras and being spotted.
—
When he went undercover, the robberies he committed to get put away where noted in his psych evaluation as unpredictable in method.
—
On top of those things that New York is a big place, a regular person could probably lose people if he got far enough and probably never see them again. Sam is actually trained to be not seen. To use his codename in an analogy.
It’s like a Panther, in a jungle traveling with less dangerous panthers(civilians), at night, with a lot of blackness to hide him.
==
“INORIGHT?!?!”
-
I think he might be related to someone from Assassin’s Creed. They seem to be good a retaining the abilities long after the time when they should have retired.
@Lowk
“What the emps. They disrupt electronic. I don’t recall 47′s mine ever being stated to be hardened against emp or even the remote itself.”
-
Well, for one he’d have to be able to spot this small… palm sized explosive capable of killing a human being or even a couple (I sometime’s use it as a sort of hand grenade.) and it’s very easily concealable.
-
“How does it take away the use of shadows? All he has to do is wait and scope out the area.”
-
If he leaves it on he wont be able to see the shadows and stay in them (everything going white and grey), like he should, as once 47 has a bead it’s going for the instant kill shot. there is no remorse. Not only that, but with his ability to tank bullets (limited) he could stand up to a few hits from Sam’s low caliber pistol.
-
Sam’s suit is going to be pretty tough though if 47 doesn’t immediately use his silverballer’s (pretty powerful and rapid fire) or a high caliber weapon since his suit is fairly effective at keeping pistol rounds at bay from long range. (I believe it’s 9mm and below… Got this from one of his books)
-
“Talking about afterwards the events had happened Sam has Grim, Victor, the nerd fanboy, and the president he could ask for intel or gear from.”
-
I don’t think the president would do that for 1…
2 Grim has no contacts, she is now like Sam and kind of broken off of third echelon. They may have each other, but that’s about it.
-
-
I know their not omnipresent, but it wouldn’t be hard to say,
“oh, he’s traveling on this route now. If we calculate the most likely course of travel (as he’s going to the cruise) you can set up a position here to wait for him to pass by.”
-
Also, 47 has his Bio, he knows what he looks like and what he does. Not only that but he’s also under chase by 10 Splinter Cells. Sure, he’s dodged them before, but that was when he still had Grim on his side (EX: the very beginning of conviction, she had a sattelite on him and could have easily reported him to Third Echelon and had him killed right then and there. This suggests that grim has been secretly helping Sam in some way while inside Third Echelon)
-
47 is relentless, and he’s willing to sacrifice a few lives to draw out fisher. Whether it be paying people to do something (as he has plenty of money) or drawing out the splinter cells to sam’s location.
-
he’s never had any trouble finding his targets before, while the crowds may be a problem 47 could pay some of them to spot sam, or otherwise.
-
Also, 47 has plenty of experience against other agents like him. The black widow was one, and she could fairly easily get the drop on you… and the one in the Christmas Brothel (strange, yes). They were top assassin’s hired to kill 47 and he was able to take them down.
-
Not only that, but Sam has nothing on 47 in this scenario, and not only that, but not even his desired tactics. He know’s he’s being hunted, but by who? 47 could easily slip on a hat or even a wig and approach sam undetected. This is because Sam doesn’t know who’s following him or chasing him down except that there are 11 of them.
-
47 is also pretty mobile and agile, climbing up pipes and gratings to get to better positions as well as shimmying across narrow ledges and jumping over gaps. While slower than Sam, he’s still able to keep up.
-
Bred to be the perfect assassin, genetic enchancments and nigh-superhuman durability and peak human agility with a brilliant mind to never be seen by camera’s or security, and leave no evidence… Sam and 47 are a lot alike other than 47 would do most anything to get the kill. it’s not hard to think like your prey if you are both the same creature.
-
47 has New York at his fingertips, and all he has to do is pull the right strings and sam is trapped in his web.
“I think he might be related to someone from Assassin’s Creed. They seem to be good a retaining the abilities long after the time when they should have retired.”
-
studentintervention.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/282-mother-of-god.jpg
-
Sam Fisher Auditore… I should have known…
“Well, for one he’d have to be able to spot this small… palm sized explosive capable of killing a human being or even a couple (I sometime’s use it as a sort of hand grenade.) and it’s very easily concealable.”
-
Hence Sam being very obdervable of his enviornment, having knowledge of such devices, and addtional tech to help spot it. And one of his emp wouldn’t even reqiure targeting one or hitting the remote itself. Also 47 would have to be close to even know if Sam is close to one which would be difficult since he can avoid or disable camera’s and stay hidden from sight.
===
“Not only that, but with his ability to tank bullets (limited) he could stand up to a few hits from Sam’s low caliber pistol.”
-
His rifles are a higher caliber, comes with grenade Luancher, and can launch other things like concussive devices, sticky cam/grenade/gas, or shock devices. Those should be helpful in putting him down enougg to get a few shot in
===
“If he leaves it on he wont be able to see the shadows and stay in them”
-
He doesn’t need to leave the shadows to use it to scan the area and spot stuff like 47. After that he can turn it of then move until he reaches a point he hasn’t scanned, stay hidden and look scan tge area again. Or use the flick on flick off method to get the best off both veiws.
===
“I don’t think the president would do that for 1″
-
Give him intel or aid? The woman is planning on making him the leader of the next secert agency. She sees him as a valuable assest. So she should be fine on giving something.
===
“… 2 Grim has no contacts, she is now like Sam and kind of broken off of third echelon.”
-
No they just took down the corrupt leader. She still has third echelon, until Blacklist and shes reassigned to Sam Echelon.
===
“oh, he’s traveling on this route now. If we calculate the most likely course of travel (as he’s going to the cruise) you can set up a position here to wait for him to pass by.”
-
Except Sam doesn’t have to go by a predictable route and has even been stated at being unpredictable in methods. He doesn’t have to take the streets, he can switch up how he’s going about one moment take a another way, to help lose 47 and his trackers.
===
“Also, 47 has his Bio, he knows what he looks like and what he does.”
-
Sam has stated at having no hobbies, no prior record, and felt no need to explain is actions to anyone. So there is not really much to go on other then being an agent. The only person that know Sam well in the field was Lambert. Lambert is dead.
===
“Sure, he’s dodged them before, but that was when he still had Grim on his side”
-
Grim is apparently one of the best at what she does(hacking, communications, info) and had previously worked with Sam before. No one else had her knowledge and it wasn’t till after using a uav was she able to find him. For about 2 years they went without knowing his exact location.
===
“47 is relentless, and he’s willing to sacrifice a few lives to draw out fisher.”
-
Sam has been noted as being surprisingly unfazed by civilians casualties. I don’t think that tactic is going to be useful at drawing him out. He’s not exactly what you would call a superhero.
===
“he’s never had any trouble finding his targets before, while the crowds may be a problem 47 could pay some of them to spot sam, or otherwise.”
-
Sam has distance so anyone trying to catch up to Sam is going to have difficulty. The person he pays would be in the same boat as everyone else. Sam has distance, mobility, and training on them. They’d first have to catch up up then tail a guy whose good at evasion.
Also That’s because he had intel on what they going to do(acting in a play, doing a specific thing, hosting a party, getting married) , what there schedule is like, and the environment is fairly limited compared to New York. There not much place for them to go. Unlike Sam who isn’t operating this way and isn’t limited to where he can go or what to do in a big varied place like NewYork.
===
“They were top assassin’s hired to kill 47 and he was able to take them down.”
-
They don’t have the tech or weaponry the splinter cells do or the numbers. Sam is actually aware of these thing and has the benefit of not starting out with them, prior knowledge, and has distance.
===
“He know’s he’s being hunted, but by who? 47 could easily slip on a hat or even a wig and approach sam undetected. This is because Sam doesn’t know who’s following him or chasing him down except that there are 11 of them.”
-
He knows he also facing 47 by factpile rules he is given some knowledge on him. Nevermind that this require 47 to actually catch up and that Sam is on the lookout for danger from just about anything .
===
“While slower than Sam, he’s still able to keep up.”
-
Being slower means he wouldn’t be able to keep up more so with Sam having distance on him.
===
“Sam and 47 are a lot alike other than 47 would do most anything to get the kill.”
-
Same as Sam. If he has a job to do he’ll do whatever it takes. The only limitation was back with 3rd E where he would sometimes be given task to not kill.
===
“47 has New York at his fingertips, and all he has to do is pull the right strings and sam is trapped in his web.”
-
No he doesn’t, 47 is not the kingpin or Lex Luther. He’s limited to what people he can get his hands on, even then some would not cooperative and most others would be down right useless. Plus 47 has shown nowhere near the control of an entire city. He’s mostly shown effecting controlled places that are operating on a schedule that he can play with.
===
“Not only that but he’s also under chase by 10 Splinter Cells.”
-
So is 47. And he is the target closer to reach, scenario doesn’t seem to indicate that he knows that there orders changed, and has less experience/knowledge with them.
===
“it’s not hard to think like your prey if you are both the same creature.”
-
47 is trained to be an assassin.
Sam is a soldier, sailor, spy, and information analyst in addition to being a trained assassin.
True they both are highly trained killers with various skill but Sam’s life is a bit more varied then 47′s life.
===
“Sam Fisher Auditore… I should have known…”
-
lol. Clearly Fisher is the name his family changed to hide frim the templars.
“No he doesn’t, 47 is not the kingpin or Lex Luther. He’s limited to what people he can get his hands on, even then some would not cooperative and most others would be down right useless. Plus 47 has shown nowhere near the control of an entire city. He’s mostly shown effecting controlled places that are operating on a schedule that he can play with.”
-
You’d be surprised what money can get you, especially in a city like new york. While he can control a small area, he can go to the cruise and pay for an extention of the time it takes to leave. Maybe even the security itself.
=
“Except Sam doesn’t have to go by a predictable route and has even been stated at being unpredictable in methods. He doesn’t have to take the streets, he can switch up how he’s going about one moment take a another way, to help lose 47 and his trackers.”
-
Sure he can, but setting up a sniper position with the cruise in view and waiting a day or so as Sam has to board it. then the extra week the Cruise has till it needs to leave which is plenty of time to get contacts within the cruise and hire or pay off people.
=
“Hence Sam being very obdervable of his enviornment, having knowledge of such devices, and addtional tech to help spot it. And one of his emp wouldn’t even reqiure targeting one or hitting the remote itself. Also 47 would have to be close to even know if Sam is close to one which would be difficult since he can avoid or disable camera’s and stay hidden from sight.”
-
I know how the EMP works, but even so it would not only put out his position. Not only that but he’d first need to know where this remote mine is, as 47 could set it anywhere, including while he’s running or even use it as a sort of grenade. His sonar goggles wont pick that up as it’s easily gotten through X-ray and metal detectors. He doesn’t need to be right next to it, he can be quite aways away from his mine.
-
Even so, in a straight firefight 47 may or may not get the shot off he needs. with sam’s foil’s or shock things he may KO 47 with a single one as I do not remember a single instance where he took something like that. So the first scenario can be his if Sam get’s the first shot. Though he would probably go more for a kill shot with his gun instead of using the foil or shocker which would give 47 a chance to shoot back..
=
“His rifles are a higher caliber, comes with grenade Luancher, and can launch other things like concussive devices, sticky cam/grenade/gas, or shock devices. Those should be helpful in putting him down enougg to get a few shot in”
-
47 has taken hit’s from assault rifles and snipers and still lived through it.
=
“No they just took down the corrupt leader. She still has third echelon, until Blacklist and shes reassigned to Sam Echelon.”
-
and third Echelon would… give Sam assets? Grim wouldn’t be able to convince them to give her assets after it’s ‘fall’
-
Well… I guess I DID allow Sam third echelon in the first scenario, but the second he’s all on his own.
-
and the President has better things to do than help Sam escape New York…
=
“So is 47. And he is the target closer to reach, scenario doesn’t seem to indicate that he knows that there orders changed, and has less experience/knowledge with them.”
-
Yes, but 47 is not pretending to BE a Splinter cell, Sam just THINKS there’s 11 after him.
Sorry if that was confusing BTW.
-
Even so, 47 has fought against many highly trained and dangerous enemys. He took down a whole organization that was trying to kill him and even faked his own death. (while this was because of some help from Diana this is no matter, He escaped from SWAT and other agents of different skill sets)
=
“He knows he also facing 47 by factpile rules he is given some knowledge on him. Nevermind that this require 47 to actually catch up and that Sam is on the lookout for danger from just about anything .”
-
Sir, the OP states that he knows that Splinter cells are after him and there are 11. He does not know about 47.
“While he can control a small area, he can go to the cruise and pay for an extention of the time it takes to leave. Maybe even the security itself.”
-
47 doesn’t carry that kind of money around normally. Plus that goes against the scenario given. Like saying predator shots tge ship trying to pick up Master chief.
===
“Sure he can, but setting up a sniper position with the cruise in view and waiting a day or so as Sam has to board it.”
-
As I stated before Sam doesn’t have to board the ship normally. He can wait till it just about to leave then sneak aboard either through normal stealthy means, cargo, disguise, or scaling on to it frok another side, etc.
===
“then the extra week the Cruise has till it needs to leave which is plenty of time to get contacts within the cruise and hire or pay off people.”
-
Again 47 doesn’t normally carry that kind of money nor is the agency known for doing this. They hire 47 because he can infiltrate and get to the target without others helping him.
===
“I know how the EMP works, but even so it would not only put out his position.”
-
All the electricity in the house going out isn’t going to give away his position. If anything its going to conceal him in shadows.
===
“Not only that but he’d first need to know where this remote mine is, as 47 could set it anywhere, including while he’s running or even use it as a sort of grenade.”
-
He has used them before, he’s even used small ones less threating ones. He onows mines and explosives.
===
“His sonar goggles wont pick that up as it’s easily gotten through X-ray and metal detectors.”
-
Why not? Sonar goggles aren’t using x-rays or detecting stuff beasue its metal.
===
“Even so, in a straight firefight 47 may or may not get the shot off he needs.”
-
Sam seems like the better gunslinger. And due to his equipment he’ll be able to spot 47 before 47 can.
===
“Though he would probably go more for a kill shot with his gun instead of using the foil or shocker which would give 47 a chance to shoot back..”
-
If his using those things then he’d already be pointing his rilfe at 47. So that should give him the ability to sqeeze of a few rounds immiedatly after then check to make sure he’s dead.
===
“47 has taken hit’s from assault rifles and snipers and still lived through it.”
-
When?
===
“give Sam assets? Grim wouldn’t be able to convince them to give her assets after it’s ‘fall’”
-
It doesn”fall” until Blacklist. Until then Grim could essentially be used to give intel from the inside. Nevermind the fact that Grimw last I checked pretty high up in it’s ranks and is an expert in info so she whatever she could come up with should be good.
===
“and the President has better things to do than help Sam escape New York…”
-
I’m pretty sure ensuring the safety of an assest that she is planning on making the leader of her next top secret organization would warrent some attention. At least enough to help a bit.
===
“Even so, 47 has fought against many highly trained and dangerous enemys. He took down a whole organization that was trying to kill him and even faked his own death.”
-
Were theses assassins working together and armed similar to a modern splinter cell?
===
“Sir, the OP states that he knows that Splinter cells are after him and there are 11. He does not know about 47.”
-
Kay. Not really that much worse since he is still aware he’s being targeted.
Anyway 47 still has to worry about the high tech group of assassins while at the same time trying to kill Sam without being noticed.
Sam on the other hand just needs to either keep distance between his pursuers and/or hide. Then sneak aboard a ship right before it leaves. He’s got several means of escape and hiding to chose from in NewYork and several ways of getting on the ship wiylthout being seen from up close or from afar.
“Were these assassins working together and armed similar to a modern day splinter cell”
-
And as good as using stealth or were they operating more like how 47 does?
Also excuse any weird mistakes. My phones backspace is acting weird and I don’t catch all the things it messes up.
No, it’s all fine. I could still understand it.
-
-
“47 doesn’t carry that kind of money around normally. Plus that goes against the scenario given. Like saying predator shots tge ship trying to pick up Master chief.”
-
Oh really? Then how does he pay off people like the cops to ‘miss’ evidence. or witness’ to ‘forget’ that he was there. Happens at the end of every mission, give’s you the option. I could provide proof to it.
-
While I will agree that goes against the OP…
=
“As I stated before Sam doesn’t have to board the ship normally. He can wait till it just about to leave then sneak aboard either through normal stealthy means, cargo, disguise, or scaling on to it frok another side, etc.”
-
True, but will he do this 6/10 time’s? from what I know he seemed pretty lax about being in the open like he was in Conviction. (while I forget if he was called there)
=
“Why not? Sonar goggles aren’t using x-rays or detecting stuff beasue its metal.”
-
Because that shows that it’s the ‘undetectable’ type of mine. and I’ve never seen Sam face off on something like that, unless you count those mine’s under the ground using a different Vision set which I wont because those are different from the RP mine.
=
“Again 47 doesn’t normally carry that kind of money nor is the agency known for doing this. They hire 47 because he can infiltrate and get to the target without others helping him.”
-
Doesn’t mean he cant get a few informants by paying them off, he’s done it to the cops, and witness’ all the time in blood money.
=
He’s taken assault rifle and sub-machine gun rounds all through Hitman 2. Most of the enemies in that game carried around Ak-47′s and other guns like that. One of the major enemies used a sniper rifle on him, the first shot didn’t kill him but if you stayed any longer the second shot would.
=
“Were theses assassins working together and armed similar to a modern splinter cell?”
-
Yes, and no. They worked together, but their equipment was not funded by the gov and they usually used guns, knive’s, and smartly placed bombs. Two worked more stealthy than 47. Both were female… and… kinda like a ‘Courtesan’
=
Hell, 47 was able to sneak into the modern day White House and kill both the vice president and that one guy. That’s gotta be something.
=
While I could see Sam sneaking on board the ship, I doubt 47 would leave him those options 9/10 times. He know’s his target and know’s how he acts which means he can block his means of access (however he does this, idk)
=
Grim could give good info… but in the second scenario she’s not really readily available seeing how he’s just got his backpack and pistol.
“Because that shows that it’s the ‘undetectable’ type of mine.”
-
Not by the method the goggles use though.
===
“Oh really? Then how does he pay off people like the cops to ‘miss’ evidence. or witness’ to ‘forget’ that he was there. Happens at the end of every mission, give’s you the option. I could provide proof to it.”
-
After the mission not during.
===
“True, but will he do this 6/10 time’s? from what I know he seemed pretty lax about being in the open like he was in Conviction. (while I forget if he was called there)”
-
The only time ircc him being out in the open was the the beginning where he immediately went into stealth mode when a threat appeared and the mission where he had to get to that senator. Other then he was sneaking around places even at the carnival.
And most of the time he wasn’t being chased or hunted but instead was hunting. When he is being hunted he resorts to stealth either to get away or get the drop on people.
He knows he’s being hunted here.
===
“Doesn’t mean he cant get a few informants by paying them off, he’s done it to the cops, and witness’ all the time in blood money.”
-
After the job is over which, iirc; he’s gotten paid. Not during.
===
“He’s taken assault rifle and sub-machine gun rounds all through Hitman 2. Most of the enemies in that game carried around Ak-47′s and other guns like that. One of the major enemies used a sniper rifle on him, the first shot didn’t kill him but if you stayed any longer the second shot would.”
-
Isn’t that game mechanics? Like how Sam can take a bullet point blank before beating up the guy. Or Drake, Nico, boss from saints row, john marston, etc take bullets.
Otherwise Sam would have the same ability.
===
“While I could see Sam sneaking on board the ship, I doubt 47 would leave him those options 9/10 times. He know’s his target and know’s how he acts which means he can block his means of access (however he does this, idk)”
-
47 can’t control everything or see everything that could happen and most of the people he could hire would be useless as if they were going up against 47 himself.
If he’s trying to snipe him he wouldn’t be able to since they would require direct intervention to find if Sam is stealthing it(avoid being seen). Anybody he hires on the ship likely won’t be able to stop, even be able to find, or keep up with Sam meaning 47 would have to get personal and look for him in various hiding places. So unless the first place is the right one he’ll have to take time to look somewhere else. Even if he find Sam it’ll likely turn into a scuffle long enough for time to be up. So all Sam has to do is wait it out until its about to leave thus making him safe once aboard.
Yes, true, after the mission, but there’s nothing saying he couldn’t and the evidence shows he’s shown to do so.
=
“Isn’t that game mechanics? Like how Sam can take a bullet point blank before beating up the guy. Or Drake, Nico, boss from saints row, john marston, etc take bullets.
Otherwise Sam would have the same ability.”
-
I understand that it’s part of the character himself for 47, being genetically engineered to be the perfect Assassin and killer. Plus, there’s nothing I see that contradict’s this ability of his. He doesn’t regenerate.
=
“47 can’t control everything or see everything that could happen and most of the people he could hire would be useless as if they were going up against 47 himself.
If he’s trying to snipe him he wouldn’t be able to since they would require direct intervention to find if Sam is stealthing it(avoid being seen). Anybody he hires on the ship likely won’t be able to stop, even be able to find, or keep up with Sam meaning 47 would have to get personal and look for him in various hiding places. So unless the first place is the right one he’ll have to take time to look somewhere else. Even if he find Sam it’ll likely turn into a scuffle long enough for time to be up. So all Sam has to do is wait it out until its about to leave thus making him safe once aboard.”
-
Hm, ok… I’ll drop the sniper bit. But 47 could get onto the cruise himself and scout out for Sam. If he’s on there too then fisher has a problem.
=
“The only time ircc him being out in the open was the the beginning where he immediately went into stealth mode when a threat appeared and the mission where he had to get to that senator. Other then he was sneaking around places even at the carnival.
And most of the time he wasn’t being chased or hunted but instead was hunting. When he is being hunted he resorts to stealth either to get away or get the drop on people.
He knows he’s being hunted here.”
-
From his books he’s pretty lax about being in the open, usually it’s to draw in his pursuer’s IIRC. I’m not an expert and I’ll have to consult my friend (who’s an expert on Fisher).
=
“Not by the method the goggles use though.”
-
And the Goggle’s haven’t shown the ability to detect a palm sized mine like that unless you could provide proof.
” Yes, true, after the mission, but there’s nothing saying he couldn’t”
-
He doesn’t normally carry that money on him and pay people off.
===
“and the evidence shows he’s shown to do so.”
-
Yes afterward when he’s finished the mission. Not to get people to do stuff for him. Otherwise he wouodn’t need to disguise himself. The most cash he normally carries on him is his coin when on a mission.
===
“I understand that it’s part of the character himself for 47, being genetically engineered to be the perfect Assassin and killer.”
-
He isn’t superhuman though. He’s the mix of the dna of mastermind and such and then trained. He’s like peak human.
Any cutscenes or quotes to confirm him taking bullets? One would think that being shot in the chest would leave a bullet that would result in death if not treated.
===
“And the Goggle’s haven’t shown the ability to detect a palm sized mine like that unless you could provide proof.”
-
Sam’s mines and sticky cam are palm sized and it picks them up as easily as it does large people. Size doesn’t really seem to be that much of an issue.
===
“But 47 could get onto the cruise himself and scout out for Sam. If he’s on there too then fisher has a problem.”
-
If Sam is hiding and notices someone is looking for him or heaven forbid finds him, that person is a threat. One he would have the jump on.
All Sam really has to do is get on to it when it leaves then and it counts as a win so all he has to do is either wait till it going to leave, leaving an insufficient amount time necessary for them to find him. Or wait it out and ambush anyone who finds him.
“Sam’s mines and sticky cam are palm sized and it picks them up as easily as it does large people. Size doesn’t really seem to be that much of an issue.”
-
I don’t think so, hm, I might have to check conviction again to make sure. Beside’s, sam’s equipment hasn’t been made to be 47′s kind of ‘undetectable’. It’s ridiculous that something like that was able to make it through X-ray or metal detector’s anyways. His Goggle’s detect things like Cameras and laser’s with an electrical signal, other than that mostly everything else is blank. That’s why his EMP’s work with the Mercenary’s, because their wearing a lot of electrical equipment (headset’s and such) which the EMP interfere’s with and causes them to get ‘stunned’.
=
“If Sam is hiding and notices someone is looking for him or heaven forbid finds him, that person is a threat. One he would have the jump on.
All Sam really has to do is get on to it when it leaves then and it counts as a win so all he has to do is either wait till it going to leave, leaving an insufficient amount time necessary for them to find him. Or wait it out and ambush anyone who finds him.”
-
To make this last longer and be more fun (as I concede the point that 47 would be able to find Sam in time because of these things) We have Sam need to take down, at least, 47 to be able to escape.
(He still wins the second scenario)
=
I’m still iffy about the first scenario as 47 has the weapon and homefield advantage. But Sam has some tech 47 may, or may not be able to resist.
“I don’t think so, hm, I might have to check conviction again to make sure.”
-
Yep. Had to play it from a few hours of gameplay in to get to it(stupid corrupted save) but I finally made it and tested it out. Even regular grenades show up.
===
“Beside’s, sam’s equipment hasn’t been made to be 47′s kind of ‘undetectable’. It’s ridiculous that something like that was able to make it through X-ray or metal detector’s anyways.”
-
It doesn’t matter since the goggles aren’t locating using those methods. Just because something is undetectable to one thing doesn’t mean it is to everything.
===
“His Goggle’s detect things like Cameras and laser’s with an electrical signal, other than that mostly everything else is blank.”
-
The lab guy only tweaked it so he could see the lasers, he said nothing about what your saying. So other then that all it does is emit the sonar thing. Which has shown to map out things from people, to guns, to smaller.
So unless its to small to be seen or has somehow shown a counter to the method the goggles use it should show.
===
“To make this last longer and be more fun (as I concede the point that 47 would be able to find Sam in time because of these things) We have Sam need to take down, at least, 47 to be able to escape.”
-
Okay, Lures him out by hiding, when he comes to find him gets him to chase him into a public part of a ship. Then in front of everyone he challenges 47 to a dance battle. The other SC show up, 47 & Sam team up putting there dance battle on hold.
+
47 goes john woo style diving with his two silverballers firing into the crowd causing panic and giving himself a cloak of people+time to get to cover. Sam using this chaos of the crowd to seeming disappear and reappear next to a splinter cell and liberates him of his assault rifle. With that down he set of his emp blinding everyone but himself, He retreats knowing that the SC’s goggle will soon rectify this short lived advantage
-several crazy, brutal killing, wild gunfire riddled chases, cat/mouses style games, and one back to back badass moments later-
Sam(having fulfilled his at least one kill quota several times) slips away allowing the boat takes off and he wins. 47 acknowledges this and they have several awkward hey/sup moments when they meet in hallways or at the all you can eat buffet.
+
When 47 finally makes it home a lone Shadow appears dressed in 4 echelon gear armed with only his moves and goggles. He points, 47 loosens his tie, Sam goggles get flicked; an epic assassin dance battle the likes of which has not been known since the Ezio v Altiar & Ryu v Raiden dance jam of 1962. Then in the final moments. Silence falls…….
AND THEN THE NINJAS ATTACKED!
The End…….?
……
Lol. Win.
-
I still don’t think Sam has the ability to win 6/10 time’s in the first scenario. He has a huge weapons and ammunition advantage and could just spam bullets if he feels the time is right.
=
“The lab guy only tweaked it so he could see the lasers, he said nothing about what your saying. So other then that all it does is emit the sonar thing. Which has shown to map out things from people, to guns, to smaller.
So unless its to small to be seen or has somehow shown a counter to the method the goggles use it should show.”
-
“Yep. Had to play it from a few hours of gameplay in to get to it(stupid corrupted save) but I finally made it and tested it out. Even regular grenades show up.”
-
Ok, I really need to play Conviction again… that doesn’t seem right. I’ve played through this game at least twice and grenade’s didn’t appear to the goggles… nither did your own equipment. From it’s ability we can assume it detects things with an electrical signal as it goes for Camera’s and yet nothing else seems to work.
-
His goggle’s just make no sense whatsoever. The Sonar bit means it should detect sound waves and such, I can see it using the sound wave to detect people… but devices? especially one’s 47 likes to use?
-
Either way you interpret it, it SHOULDN’T detect a device like 47′s mine’s.
-
Even so, the first scenario would end in a gunfight as 47 would probably survive the first shot or two (going by game mechanics) Going by a SINGLE cutscene…
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpYv-M00HzU
He gets a gunshot wound that he survive’s pretty well… Showing that he’s still able to operate under extreme pain. Eventually he gets treated and IMMEDIATELY afterwards he fights a huge amount of SWAT sent in to kill him.
Note: this was only because the person recognized him and 47 got shot near fatally.
throughout the whole thing he walks around fine even with the bullet wound.
-
other than that there’s nothing else on his durability.
=
Well, now that I think of it he may be able to search around the Cruise to find Sam, if sam does miss his cruise he’s automatically lost so…
And with Third Echelon’s resources underneath the Splinter cells they may be able to track him down and kill him using the same trick Grim did.
“His goggle’s just make no sense whatsoever. The Sonar bit means it should detect sound waves and such, I can see it using the sound wave to detect people… but devices? especially one’s 47 likes to use?”
-
I don’t think it detects sound waves/vibration/whatever and such, kind of like how daredevil sees. Its seems to be doing the reverse. Instead of using the sound around it to build a picture, it instead sends out its own.
The sound gets sent out and it kind of builds a picture of everything around him by mapping the area as it travels, somehow viewable through the goggles.
The objects themselves(devices/people/etc) don’t have to emit anything, be made of anything speecific, or be moving to be picked up.
“I don’t think it detects sound waves/vibration/whatever and such, kind of like how daredevil sees. Its seems to be doing the reverse. Instead of using the sound around it to build a picture, it instead sends out its own.
The sound gets sent out and it kind of builds a picture of everything around him by mapping the area as it travels, somehow viewable through the goggles.
The objects themselves(devices/people/etc) don’t have to emit anything, be made of anything specific, or be moving to be picked up.”
-
Then how it highlights mercenary’s and camera’s is strange. The Mercenary’s are carrying a lot of electrical equipment on them, flashlight, headset, that kind of stuff and camera’s are also plugged in and emitting an electrical signal.
-
Same with the laser beams, but that was because the guy set it to that.
-
For that reason that’s why I thought the EMP worked on those guys because their headsets and stuff was wigging out.
=
Why else would it highlight just these specific targets?
“Then how it highlights mercenary’s and camera’s is strange. The Mercenary’s are carrying a lot of electrical equipment on them, flashlight, headset, that kind of stuff and camera’s are also plugged in and emitting an electrical signal.”
-
Picks up people without any electrical equipment on, regular grenades, and guns.
Again it never stated to pick things up through them emitting electrical things.
Well, yeah, I just find it strange how it highlights certain targets and not others. Being Sonar it should use some sort of sound wave to detect things.
-
Well, I give up trying to figure it out.
-
Lets see, what other things could happen…
==
Hitman could set up an ‘accident’ on the boat that Sam may or may not walk into. He’s a master of that.
-
even if Sam waits at the last second, it give 47 a week to search the area for him.
==
I think waiting for Absolution may be helpful in 47′s abilities. Instinct would help and he has a sort of Mark and Execute just like Sam does except it slows down time and he shoots quicker than anyone could react.
-
It comes out in november, so that’s not too long.
“Well, I give up trying to figure it out.”
-
Well it basically turns the world into a glass house for Sam. So the highlights could be what Sam finds as useful info. Like Sam vision as seem through goggles that allow him to see everything around him. Giant motor hanging up that can be shot down, barrels that could exploded, traps, grenades, weapons, people’s placement, etc.
“It comes out in november, so that’s not too long.”
-
Nice and aw, Blacklist doesn’t come out until spring 2013.
That just seems weird, Sam doesn’t know how to program those things to his liking and the scientist definately didn’t know what Sam thought as ‘useful’ and not useful. The programming just doesn’t make sense.
-
What if Sam was using his early Splinter Cell Goggle’s? Technically this is the Splinter Cell version of Sam in scenario one so he wouldn’t have his Sonar Goggles.
=
Yeah, one of my friends pre-ordered it already. It looks interesting, but I’m just not so sure about it…
“That just seems weird, Sam doesn’t know how to program those things to his liking and the scientist definately didn’t know what Sam thought as ‘useful’ and not useful. The programming just doesn’t make sense.”
-
I’m not saying he programmed them, I’m saying those things are indicating what Sam is viewing as notable or useful at the moment. The goggle are just giving him the ability to see these things through stuff and the stuff that are bright might just what he’s notices using his own powers of perception….. or tech magic. I dunno.
Tech magic… lol.
-
You know, I noticed that we’ve been the only one’s debating on this match…
I’m going for agent 47 on this, fisher is outmatched in almost every skill here. 8 times out of 10 hitman will win 1st first scenario and 7 times out of 10 he will win 2nd scenario.
47 would get his ass kicked. Sams way more trained, agile, skilled, and experienced in every way, especially in marksmanship, h2h, and stealth.