For this match, the battle is of who has the most influence?
NIN has reached it’s expiration date, while Skrillex is just getting started.
In ten years from now, which artist do you think will have had the greatest impact on music?
Poll:
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I have to make a choice?
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Neither.
who’s skrillex?????????
I have actually heard of Skrillex, and I think I like some of their stuff. I’ll support them for now.
Well seeing how Trent Reznor is an actual musician, not a schmuck on Mario paints music maker, I say NiN
Skrillex music is meh and repetitive, nine inch nails is solid and has good music from years of albums, I am biased there is no doubt, but considering how annoying wub step is im going to have to have a biased opinion on this.
In ten years from now, which artist do you think will have had the greatest impact on music?
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See this question depends on how long dubstep, and electronic music in general, stays in the public consciousness and evolves. As of right now Reznor wins for influence simply from having a larger body of work to draw from, seeing as how Sonny Moore, aka Skrillex, was born the year before Nine Inch Nails first album Pretty Hate Machine came out and Reznor is also an iconic musician and producer working on the music for The Social Network and the American version of The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo.
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But, on the other hand when a band like Korn incorporates dubstep motifs into their music on their last album it seems like the direction and influence of the genre can go many different places beyond where Moore started when he left From First to Last. That being said if Reznor is still part of the music scene 10 years from now I would say he will have had more impact.
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On a personal note, I dislike Reznor’s musical tastes, and the repetitive comment about Skrillex made me laugh because that is a large reason why I’m not a big fan of Nine Inch Nails. I like Skrillex a little more, but I still change the channel if he comes on.
@Ptaine the repetitiveness of Skrillex is that there is one “transformers humping” noise that he plays over other peoples music and that’s about all he does
Can they both lose?
Neither. If I had to choose, NIN. Dubstep and Skrillex are overrated.
”the repetitiveness of Skrillex is that there is one “transformers humping” noise that he plays over other peoples music and that’s about all he does”
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Oh I know what you mean, even though that isn’t necessarily “all he does,” but Nine Inch Nails music being “good” is a matter of opinion. Every time I listen to a Nine Inch Nails song I get bored of it after about 30 seconds and never want to listen to it again. I just happen to like dubstep more, but like I said Skrillex is not one of those artists that I go out of my way to listen to, so I get what you’re saying. I just laughed at the “meh repetitive” because that’s my precise feelings about NIN.
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Even still I recognize that Reznor is an iconic figure in the industry and has influenced its progression. Skrillex has that potential whether he realizes that potential is something else entirely. I don’t know that you could solely attribute him for dubstep becoming “mainstream,” but he is certainly a large reason for it.
“Neither. If I had to choose, NIN. Dubstep and Skrillex are overrated.”
You obviously don’t have the bass system to support Dubstep.
I don’t particularly like either so… Trivium.
@tau43:
“You obviously don’t have the bass system to support Dubstep.
I don’t particularly like either so… Trivium.”
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I don’t like dubstep, so I doubt having a bass system would change my mind. I listen to various types of EDM, mostly Goa and psychedelic trance.
Umm I’m going to go with Metallica no wait…Red Hot Chili Peppers.
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I’m not a fan of NIN and I hate dubstep to the point of insanity
A New Challenger has entered the ring!
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IRON MAIDEN!
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Perfect!
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Finish them!
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FATALITY!
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Iron Maiden Wins!
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….I really like fighting games, ok?
LOL, Sauroposeidon.
“I don’t like dubstep, so I doubt having a bass system would change my mind. I listen to various types of EDM, mostly Goa and psychedelic trance.”
*head shake*
@tau43:
“*head shake*”
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Neat. I can do the same to people who listen to dubstep.
I have to say Reznor. I’ve heard admittedly very little dubstep mind you but, I think even in ten years people will remember several of Reznor’s songs… Like say Hurt, and of course Closer to name at the least two. The former being made better by the Johnny Cash cover of it.
@sauro
Thank you, Ion Maiden is godly, more people need to listen to good metal
*Iron Maiden
Skrillex is okay. Not great but okay. I prefer a few of NIN’S song over most of Skrillex. Avengers trailer iirc was NIN right?
Pink Floyd.
Skrillex, he made some sick music with Korn.
can some one give me a link to one of Skrillexes songs. and good one sauro.
Reptile in reference to Sauros love of fighting games.
I don’t like NIN and I don’t recognize Skrillex’s work. I know I’ve heard it, but I wouldn’t be able to tell you which was his. The only thing I know, and saddly the whole point of this post, is to point out that Pinky Pie is going to eat Skrillex.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ0JahhFkts
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She’s comming for you, Skrillex!
“I have to make a choice?
…….
Neither.”
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QFT
I don’t really think this is a fair ‘duel’ as everyone is heavily biased. It doesn’t help that factpile has an older fan base, dubstep having a younger fan base. My unbiased opinion (i’m not a fan of either but i have listened to both) is that skrillex will have more influence. This is based on the fact that Nine Inch Nails didn’t really revolutionize the music of the time. They made some great music no doubt (#94 in top artists, rolling stone mag) and sold quite a few albums. They were not the first metal band though. Skrillex on the other hand was the person who, arguably, really made dubstep ‘popular’. Also skrillex could be said to have really brought dubstep to North America (as it was in the UK mostly previously). Dubstep (if you like it or not) is becoming more and more popular, slowly working its way into pop music. Techno as a whole is also becoming much more popular in younger generations. So, with information presented i would have to say that skrillex takes this. Preference should not hide the truth.
Also just as a side note. I’m not just some techno fan. It is my belief that people should not just quarantine themselves to one type of music. To do so is to misunderstand music. It is meant to make you ‘feel’. to refuse to listen to different types of music is like saying you only have one emotion. With that belief I try to enjoy the different forms of music wether they be ‘transformers humping’ or some ‘hippie slashing at his guitar like an epileptic’.
Sorry for the long post but music is a passion for us all. Hope this was informative at the least and i look forward to reading any posts that actually serve to point out how NIN influenced music.
THIS IS NOT A DEBATE ON YOUR FAVORITE ARTIST.
“To do so is to misunderstand music.”
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“to refuse to listen to different types of music is like saying you only have one emotion.
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No.
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Music is, in its most basic form, an art form.
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To limit one’s self to a few, or one, genre of art (say, paintings) does not cause one to “misunderstand” other forms of art (such as pottery). They are valid, but seperate.
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Further more, to have an interest in only a specific sub genre (continuing with the paintings example, acrillics), does not deminish the audience for not liking another sub genre (say, water colors).
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It is, quite frankly, a completely subjective choice for both the artist as well as the audience.
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To claim that the audience doesn’t fully appreciate Edvard Munch’s work just because they care for Ruby the painting elephant is quite frankly laughably ignorant and pretentious.
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The exception to this is if you are approaching the entirety of music as a whole, but at that point you have to equate people like Beethoven, The Beetles, Britney Spears, Bach, N’Snch, Louis Armstrong, tribal songs, and that little girl across the street with her flute.
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And at that point it isn’t really about the notes anymore. It’s about the history.
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So, yeah, I’m calling bullshit on that whole “you’re incomplete without listening to everything” bullshit.
Damn me and my lack of proof reading.
“To claim that the audience doesn’t fully appreciate Edvard Munch’s work just because they care for Ruby the painting elephant is quite frankly laughably ignorant and pretentious.”
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… Edvard Munch’s work just because they refuse to look at Ruby….
ptaine I agree completely on what you have said, it will really depend on how long Dubstep (I hate saying dubstep due to all the Bros constantly saying it and not knowing anything about it or other EDM.) is around. I vastly prefer Skrillex to NIN and listen to his stuff every single day. However about what is “better” is entirely subjective.
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Love EDM.
@DoctorWhen
”I don’t really think this is a fair ‘duel’ as everyone is heavily biased. It doesn’t help that factpile has an older fan base, dubstep having a younger fan base. My unbiased opinion (i’m not a fan of either but i have listened to both) is that skrillex will have more influence. This is based on the fact that Nine Inch Nails didn’t really revolutionize the music of the time.”
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Very interesting pointing out the fairness and age discrepancies and then flubbing what Nine Inch Nails is in this comment: ”They were not the first metal band though.” No, they were not, just as Skrillex isn’t the first electronic artist. He helped bring DUBSTEP, a subgenre, to the forefront….also one that has been around for a bit as well. At this point the comparison between Reznor and Moore becomes apparent for the basis of this match, Nine Inch Nails helped mainstream INDUSTRIAL ROCK, a subgenre, which also had been around for a bit before him just without the commercial success.
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It seems that your unbiased opinion is also uninformed. Is that because you are from the younger fan base perhaps? Also note the electronic influence of industrial music, and incidentally enough guess who was an influence on Skrillex?
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”I’ve been deep into electronic music my entire life. The first records I ever owned were ‘Fat of Land’ by the Prodigy and ‘Come To Daddy’ by Aphex Twin,” raves Sonny Moore, better known as emerging electronic visionary SKRILLEX. “Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails were also early influences. I’ve been dabbling in making electronic tracks on programs like Fruity Loops since I was 14 years old.”
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Based on that alone who exactly would have the most influence here? When you add in Reznor’s body of work, awards and accolades, and his influence in the industry I would think the choice is pretty apparent.
” Dubstep (if you like it or not) is becoming more and more popular, slowly working its way into pop music.”
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Dubstep is not pop music.
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I love dubstep I HATE people who bitch and moan with their stupid elitist faces about “So and so isn’t dubstep, he’s 67% technotrancestep and 33% brostep.” It’s all just fucking music. Skrillex is a bandwagon, that is all. He gives 13 year olds the chance to say they like dubstep. He isn’t even that good. Listen to this.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MnsnHjeWlg
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Or this.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm_6U-MWmXk
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Or this
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdnBTJiUVDQ&list=PLF903FF1941C2655B&index=7&feature=plpp_video
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And this
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=oISuurtTHtc&list=PLF903FF1941C2655B&index=15&feature=plpp_video
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That is dubstep, real dubstep. I used to LOVE Skrillex, then I heard some of the older and better artists. Skrillex is like Diet Dubstep Lite for kids Zero. While artists like Excision, Bassnectar, Funtcase, Vexare and Druley are the real deal.
Also, NIN was good when I was a freshman in highschool, but not that good. I actually prefer Skrillex. If you type in the letter N in Youtube or Google, NIN won’t come up, type in S and twenty of that kids songs will be on top.
No way to really prove a winner here. I prefer skrillex over nine inch nails, but I have a much bigger preference to 80s metal.
Uhhhh Why is this even a match? The two are from entirely different genres of music! if ur gonna do a match like this why not do rock v. dance/ electronic?
@Deus Ex Machina
”I hate saying dubstep due to all the Bros constantly saying it and not knowing anything about it or other EDM.)”
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Lol, to be honest with you it’s all just techno in my head. I pretty much just make the differentiation because other people do. I used to listen to Crystal Method and Prodigy back when they first came out and then I kind of fell out of listening to the genre until a buddy started showing me artists at work, then I got hooked again.
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@I-Reaper-I
”Dubstep is not pop music”
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That wasn’t really what he was saying though. There are dubstep motifs that are creeping into pop music it’s a little different connotation.
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”Skrillex is a bandwagon, that is all. He gives 13 year olds the chance to say they like dubstep. He isn’t even that good. Listen to this
…
That is dubstep, real dubstep. I used to LOVE Skrillex, then I heard some of the older and better artists. Skrillex is like Diet Dubstep Lite for kids Zero. While artists like Excision, Bassnectar, Funtcase, Vexare and Druley are the real deal”
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This part becomes entirely opinion. As I’ve said before I am not a big fan of Skrillex and I’ve never liked him. Excision and Bassnectar are two of my favorites as well, but many people would never have been introduced to the genre without his influence which is the point. I don’t know if that was what you were trying to get at or not, but what you clarify as “real” dubstep isn’t exactly relevant here.
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”Also, NIN was good when I was a freshman in highschool, but not that good. I actually prefer Skrillex. If you type in the letter N in Youtube or Google, NIN won’t come up, type in S and twenty of that kids songs will be on top”
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Again this isn’t even remotely an indicator of the purpose of the match. Go with Iron Maiden for instance they aren’t relevant musically in the mainstream consciousness anymore, but there influence on the music industry can clearly be felt, you have the metal giants Metallica, Slayer, and Antrax all citing Iron Maiden as an influence on top of newer acts like Avenged Sevenfold and Slipknot, but type “I” into Google you’re more likely to get Iron Man then anything else. That doesn’t change their very real impact on the industry.
@ OriginalA
Yes music is an art form but I have never met people who COMPLETELY bias themselves to one type of art. Maybe its just from personal experience but in general most people i have talked to all swear to one type music. People who like metal are metal heads. People who like pop don’t listen to rock ect. Its not as if people say they only enjoy pottery and hate paintings.
My point was that people should look at the different types of music (metal and techno to your pottery and paintings) and enjoy all art forms. If you understand this congrats but my post was mostly in regards to the people slamming techno/dubstep. How do you say you dislike an entire art form when you haven’t really explored it? Going back to your example again it would be as if someone saw a pottery vase for the first time and decided they hate all pottery.
Just to recap and maybe explain my opinion better. It is my belief that a person should try to listen and enjoy the main forms of music (rock, metal, techno, country, rap, etc). Also people shouldn’t slam a whole type of music if they have’nt really explored it (aka all the people saying they hate ‘wubstep’ and then confess to not listening to it).
Get it?
Dont call “bullshit” when you don’t understand what i’m trying to say. If you have a better argument I would be happy to read it.
@ptaine
I wouldn’t say that i am in the younger crowd and I listen to both artists so I would say I am not uninformed. Also when I say metal i mean I would place NIN in ‘industrial metal’. In my opinion dubstep will become more popular than industrial metal (given the provided time of 10 years).
Also sorry for ‘flubbing’. When writing long posts it happens. certain aspects get less attention than others so i don’t really explain myself the way i want to.
“Also note the electronic influence of industrial music, and incidentally enough guess who was an influence on Skrillex?”
Pink floyd influenced both genres so Pink floyd beats all? Who’s to say Skrillex and Dubstep won’t influence other future bands as well.
“…..
from ptaine
@I-Reaper-I
”Dubstep is not pop music”
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That wasn’t really what he was saying though. There are dubstep motifs that are creeping into pop music it’s a little different connotation.
…..”
You got what i was saying there. I was simply pointing out that since dubstep has come into popularity it has influenced pop. When NIN brought industrial metal to popularity they didn’t influence jazz. That I know of anyway. It would be great if someone could point out a way that NIN influenced an older genre into incorporating its style of music in a simular way that dubstep has crept into pop.
I do however totally agree with both ptaine and I-Reaper-I in that skrillex is not my first choice in dubstep. Skrillex did however make dubstep popular.
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@I-Reaper-I
”Also, NIN was good when I was a freshman in highschool, but not that good. I actually prefer Skrillex. If you type in the letter N in Youtube or Google, NIN won’t come up, type in S and twenty of that kids songs will be on top”
Forgot to mention this. This actually relates to my age group argument. The newer generations can simply youtube whatever song they want to hear so quite a few google searches will happen. That or search so that they can download it. Older generations would own CDs and such so obviously they wouldn’t have to search on google to hear their favorite NIN song. Any of todays music will have more google/youtube pop ups. Just like if you type in ‘B’ you will get more Justin Bieber results over Beatles results. So really your point is invalid.
“This part becomes entirely opinion. As I’ve said before I am not a big fan of Skrillex and I’ve never liked him. Excision and Bassnectar are two of my favorites as well, but many people would never have been introduced to the genre without his influence which is the point. I don’t know if that was what you were trying to get at or not, but what you clarify as “real” dubstep isn’t exactly relevant here.”
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Well I wasn’t really trying to prove winner as it is impossible. I was just stating my opinion. This match is kind of pointless.
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“Again this isn’t even remotely an indicator of the purpose of the match. Go with Iron Maiden for instance they aren’t relevant musically in the mainstream consciousness anymore, but there influence on the music industry can clearly be felt, you have the metal giants Metallica, Slayer, and Antrax all citing Iron Maiden as an influence on top of newer acts like Avenged Sevenfold and Slipknot, but type “I” into Google you’re more likely to get Iron Man then anything else. That doesn’t change their very real impact on the industry”
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Again, just my opinion. Neither artist can really be compared as it would just turn into an argument based on opinions. I agree with what you are saying though.
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” So really your point is invalid.”
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Umm…again, it was just my opinion. I wasn’t really trying to prove anyone wrong or even prove a point.
This is all opinion. It’s like, just to get a discussion going I guess. Reaper, need to get back on that xenos and terms thread.
“Yes music is an art form but I have never met people who COMPLETELY bias themselves to one type of art”
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Nor will you ever. You will, however, meet several people that will object against certain sub genres, and that is what we are talking about here, SUB GENRES. Very specific and narrowly defined parts of the entire whole that is Music. Hell, they are merely only a small fraction of Modern Music, which in turn is a mere fraction of Music as a whole. Nobody, not even you despite your claim, is unbias here.
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Art, as a matter of fact, cannot be comprehended on a purely objective level. Bais will always be in play on the subject of any Art form, and that includes Music, and the more narrowly you define it the sharper that will show. We aren’t even talking about two sub genres, even though I just said we were. We are talking about two specific artists within two specific sub genres within a specific genre of music within a specific era of music. That is pretty damn specific.
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Get off your soapbox. Nobody here said they only liked one sub genre of music. They said they didn’t like THAT sub genre of music. There is a difference between saying “this one and only that” as opposed to “just not that one”. Learn to read between the line. You are accusing people here of something they did not say. So stop your preaching. It’s insulting.
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Also, Techno/Dubstep…. TWO DIFFERENT GENRES!!!! They are not the same thing. Do not treat them as the same thing.
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“Skrillex did however make dubstep popular.”
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Personally I would argue that My Little Pony made dubstep popular, but that could just be because that was how I was introduced into the sub genre.
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Also “aka all the people saying they hate ‘wubstep’ and then confess to not listening to it”
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Nobody here said that. Most here simply said that don’t like Skrillex specifically. And, again, if you read between the lines, there are several here that said they do listen to dubstep and still are extremely critical of Skrillex.
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“How do you say you dislike an entire art form when you haven’t really explored it?”
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ABSOLUTELY NOBODY HAS SAID THIS EVER! That would be saying they don’t like Music. PERIOD. Find me someone who doesn’t like music! I demand you prove this claim!
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A sub genre though, THAT is considerably easier to do. And that is what is being done. Get a clue, kid. Some people have preferences and they are going to circulate around those that they enjoy. When they branch out, and they will, they will find similiar artists within the same sub genre or another similiar sub genre all together. Here, we are talking about two completely different sub genres that are not only hitting a generational barrier, but also sub cultural differences. The target audiences are not the same. The art itself is not designed nor intended for the same audience. And you cry out as if it is some sort of sin for people to act as if it wasn’t designed specifically for them.
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To put my point on it:
static.dezeen.com/uploads/2010/07/dzn_Modern-Art-Oxford-by-dRMM-Architects-8.jpg
www.planetware.com/i/photo/tate-gallery-modern-art-london-gb546.jpg
www.jackhan.com/images/In%20the%20Middle.JPG
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f4/The_Scream.jpg/220px-The_Scream.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/City_Art_Gallery1.JPG
www.seeyouspeak.com/CLASSROOM/Tips/files/page19_blog_entry97-p408209-mexico_city-modern_sculpture.jpg.jpeg
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Which of these pictures does not interest you?
”In my opinion dubstep will become more popular than industrial metal (given the provided time of 10 years).”
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That may be the case, but what exactly are your reasons for thinking so? And like I was pointing out before it depends on how Skrillex (Sonny Moore) himself evolves as an artist, Reznor just recently won a Golden Globe and an Academy Award for his collobration on the score for The Social Network it isn’t specifically Nine Inch Nails, but the score is unmistakably Reznor.
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”Pink floyd influenced both genres so Pink floyd beats all? Who’s to say Skrillex and Dubstep won’t influence other future bands as well”
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Oh I’m sure that will happen, and like I said already the recent popularity of Dubstep is definitely in part attributed to Skrillex’s recent success so he has certainly already started influencing the industry.
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Pink Floyd though, while certainly an influential band, isn’t exactly a direct influence of either of these men. And we are talking about these two musical acts not the genres themselves. Moore specifically cited Nine Inch Nails as a direct influence.
Of these two?
The Beatles and Sabbath. both have done more than either of these artists.
“Reaper, need to get back on that xenos and terms thread.”
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I don’t need to do anything. I especially don’t need to get back to a thread with no scenario. That thread is dead to me, plus I have better things to do today, the only reason I’m even on here is because I have yet to see dubstep discussed on the Pile. I won’t be on the site very often, since I’m going to be in school again, finally. And that’s just a tad bit more important.
@OriginalA
“Get off your soapbox”
“So stop your preaching. It’s insulting.”
“Get a clue, kid.”
Rather obviously you’ve become angry. You obviously think that i’m some young punk trying to ‘preach’ to you. Instead of following you into the low road of starting a rather pointless flame war I’m going to try to explain this to you yet again…
For starters I’m speaking partly out of personal experience. I used to hate country music. As a whole i just disliked it. Though after going to a country club a few times i realized that the music was actually pretty good. I would say I enjoy country music now. I allowed myself to experience a music genre I thought I disliked and now I like it.
”
“How do you say you dislike an entire art form when you haven’t really explored it?”
ABSOLUTELY NOBODY HAS SAID THIS EVER! That would be saying they don’t like Music. PERIOD. Find me someone who doesn’t like music! I demand you prove this claim!”
”
Almost everyone I have ever met has done this. They go on about what type of music genre they like and refuse to even consider to look at other genres. I can’t believe you’ve never experienced people like this. Young or old people (that I have met) will not just refuse to listen to one sub genre but an entire genre. So Is it that much of a stretch to say that when I hear people saying how much they dislike dubstep that I can assume they dislike techno as a genre? This is all coming from personal experiences so if everyone you know acts differently please let me know. Though judging by your ‘tone’ of writing I’m assuming you’ll let me know in the most condescending way possible that EVERYONE you know is of such high tastes.
“Also, Techno/Dubstep…. TWO DIFFERENT GENRES!!!! They are not the same thing. Do not treat them as the same thing.”
You also seem to be very worked up about sub genres. Dubstep is a sub genre of techno just like industrial metal is a sub genre of metal. So yes in a way they are. Unless you are confusing certain types of techno, such as trance, as being techno and are making the definition as such?
My point about exploring genres and sub genres still stands. In my opinion and from my experiences, If i look into any sub genre I am able to find songs and artists I enjoy.
“Nobody here said they only liked one sub genre of music. They said they didn’t like THAT sub genre of music. There is a difference between saying “this one and only that” as opposed to “just not that one”.”
I’m not saying they only like ONE type of music. I’m saying They dislike an entire sub genre (and as I’ve said it is safe to assume the entire genre of techno) based on a few songs of only what has reached popularity. An example of this would be saying that a person hates heavy metal only having heard Lamb of God and Disturbed.
” Here, we are talking about two completely different sub genres that are not only hitting a generational barrier, but also sub cultural differences. The target audiences are not the same. The art itself is not designed nor intended for the same audience. And you cry out as if it is some sort of sin for people to act as if it wasn’t designed specifically for them.”
The ‘audience’ for certain types of music is PEOPLE WHO ENJOY THAT MUSIC. If you want to argue about target audiences you have to realize that the target audience is always young people. 80s metal was targeted towards 80s teens/young adults. Techno follows the same rule. It doesn’t mean that as an adult I can’t listen to it.
And finally the art pictures. I enjoy all of them. What point are you trying to make? That I appreciate all forms of art and there for should appreciate all forms of music? I’m not demanding people love skrillex I’m saying they should fully explore dubstep.If I dislike that Van Gogh painting Should I damn all of the painting of that time into my ‘dislike pile’?
I believe I get your argument. No need to angrily smash the keyboard. And before you respond that I need to listen to my own advise I’m trying to put this as civilly as I can. This is a discussion. I would advise you follow after ptaine. He doesn’t rant and nit pick. He Discusses.
@ptaine
“That may be the case, but what exactly are your reasons for thinking so? ”
I think dubstep popularity is just beginning. It has gained massive popularity in the younger generations. If history repeats and assuming dubstep is kept fresh with new artists I think it will become one of the larger sub genres.
“Moore specifically cited Nine Inch Nails as a direct influence.”
I didn’t know that actually. Are you making this a point as to why NIN should ‘win’? Again who to say that in 10 years skrillex wouldn’t be quoted as some new up and coming music genres inspiration. Which actually brings about the biggest flaw in this duel. Nobody knows where music will go given 10 years. The duel is all be based on faith that skrillex will inspire some future artists. Wouldn’t you agree?
So I guess given my ‘pink floyd being the influence of both and therefore the winner’ quip I would have to side with NIN being the more influential over time. I’ve come to the realization that 10 years will have a tough time beating NINs 30+ years of influence. So is it really fair to contribute Moores sucess to NIN?
I’m not actually sure how to call this now. Thoughts?
“Almost everyone I have ever met has done this. They go on about what type of music genre they like and refuse to even consider to look at other genres.”
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Nope. Now you are backpeddling. You claimed that people didn’t like the Art Form. Not the Genre. The entire Art Form. That would include only Music as an entire whole. You are backpeddling your claim and shifting the goal post to make it appear as if your claim is reasonable; it was not reasonable and now you are turning to underhanded and fallicious logic.
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“Instead of following you into the low road of starting a rather pointless flame war I’m going to try to explain this to you yet again…”
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As if this wasn’t high handed enough. You can CLAIM to be some outstanding paragon of things musical and logical, but really you just come off as a high handed bloke that can’t see his own bias.
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I’m honest enough to fully admit I’m high handed and bias. You just flower it up and try to be more clever while pretending your shit don’t stink.
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“So Is it that much of a stretch to say that when I hear people saying how much they dislike dubstep that I can assume they dislike techno as a genre?”
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Yes, because it is an oversimplified generalization that refuses to acknowledge the matter of fact that people are complex and have a wide range of biases, likes/dislikes, emotional ranges, and personal taste. You aren’t being fair to the people who are at least being honest enough to say what they mean to say. You put words in their mouths and then call them lesser than whole for it. Quite frankly as you seem to be attempting to present yourself as some sort of enlightened, or entitled, or at least respectable, person this should be beneath you; obviously it isn’t.
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“This is all coming from personal experiences so if everyone you know acts differently please let me know. Though judging by your ‘tone’ of writing I’m assuming you’ll let me know in the most condescending way possible that EVERYONE you know is of such high tastes.”
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I will not say “of high tastes” but I will say that everyone I’ve meet was never so shallow as to like only one sub genre and reject all others.
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“You also seem to be very worked up about sub genres. Dubstep is a sub genre of techno just like industrial metal is a sub genre of metal. So yes in a way they are.”
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Except you used them interchangably why making statement about other people not liking one or the other. Again, you aren’t being fair to the original speaker by inaccurately repeated what they have said and there by implying a conotation that was there there and then attacking THAT arguement. Nice Straw Man you have there. How hard was he to knock down?
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“My point about exploring genres and sub genres still stands. ”
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Let’s take another look at that point say we:
“to refuse to listen to different types of music is like saying you only have one emotion.”
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… Nobody here has ever said that they are opposed to this. They simply do not like THAT type of music. Your entire arguement has been a strawman form the start.
”For starters I’m speaking partly out of personal experience. I used to hate country music. As a whole i just disliked it. Though after going to a country club a few times i realized that the music was actually pretty good. I would say I enjoy country music now. I allowed myself to experience a music genre I thought I disliked and now I like it”
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I’ll be honest with you, while I personally appreciate this sentiment, this particular mindset is something that is incredibly hard to convey without being condescending and pretentious…or at least unintentionally sounding that way.
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The fact of the matter is people are going to like what they’re going to like, and if you hold an expectation that people should listen to and broaden that scope to find what they like in any genre then you risk becoming as close-minded as those you are accusing of that very same thing. I realize that you are just expressing your own opinion of how you view music, but that’s all it is your own opinion, which doesn’t invalidate an alternative view and shouldn’t in any way supplant that viewpoint for anyone else.
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Now the reason I say that is because I do not like country music. I have never one time come across a country song that I like and that isn’t even close to an embellishment. Part of that is because I know what I enjoy in music and country does not even remotely satisfy that for me on any level and never has. I have a few reasons for that which I can share with you if the need arises, but the point is I don’t expect those who enjoy country to like what I like genrewise nor do I expect them to branch out of what they like simply to satisfy my own view of music. Like I said I understand that you are simply stating your opinion that you think people should be more open-minded in what they listen to, but really, who cares?
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”I think dubstep popularity is just beginning. It has gained massive popularity in the younger generations. If history repeats and assuming dubstep is kept fresh with new artists I think it will become one of the larger sub genres.”
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While you are entitled to your opinion, I would hesitate to put any stock in the popularity among the younger generations. There are a multitude of various media that comes and goes through the younger generations public consciousness and none of it stays for very long, dubstep WILL have to evolve if it will remain and the likelihood of that happening and retaining any semblance of what made it popular now I would say is rather slim.
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BUT, take that a step further. Go to the RIAA website and look at album sales and compare Nine Inch Nails to Skrillex. Then consider the nature of the music industry now and Reznor’s response to it from his Wikipedia page:
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”Reznor went on to say that as “the climate grows more and more desperate for record labels, their answer to their mostly self-inflicted wounds seems to be to screw the consumer over even more.” Reznor’s post, specifically his criticism of the recording industry at large, elicited considerable media attention. In September 2007, Reznor continued his attack on Universal Music Group at a concert in Australia, urging fans there to “steal” his music online instead of purchasing it legally”
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The music industry has been in flux ever since the Napster days and not that Nine Inch Nails is solely responsible for that continued flux, but statements like that certainly impact the industry.
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”I didn’t know that actually. Are you making this a point as to why NIN should ‘win’? Again who to say that in 10 years skrillex wouldn’t be quoted as some new up and coming music genres inspiration. Which actually brings about the biggest flaw in this duel. Nobody knows where music will go given 10 years. The duel is all be based on faith that skrillex will inspire some future artists. Wouldn’t you agree?”
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Hmm, I thought I actually made my stance pretty clear here. In post 6, my very first comment, I essentially agree with and state your assessment of what you consider “the biggest flaw in this duel,”….it depends.
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Also, in post 32 I provided a link to an interview with Moore, and then provided the relevant bit from that article in italics and quotations afterward stating Nine Inch Nails as an early influence, so I’m a little surprised that you didn’t know that considering I already provided that very information. I guess it’s because of the length of the post?
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”So I guess given my ‘pink floyd being the influence of both and therefore the winner’ quip I would have to side with NIN being the more influential over time. I’ve come to the realization that 10 years will have a tough time beating NINs 30+ years of influence. So is it really fair to contribute Moores sucess to NIN? I’m not actually sure how to call this now. Thoughts?”
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Well, I’m not attributing Moore’s success to Nine Inch Nails. However, that influence is still there, and if Trent Reznor wasn’t a respected producer outside of Nine Inch Nails and not working successfully in the industry to this day I wouldn’t say he wins. BUT, since both of those are still true on top of Nine Inch Nails undeniable influence and success it’s hard to compete with that.
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But as I also said, it depends. Given Moore’s penchant for changing styles, ie From First to Last – to – Skrillex, it’s not inconceivable that Moore eclipses Reznor for the whole of their respective careers. But in 10 years? That’s kind of hard to do all things considered.
1 in every 13 Armadillos born in captivity are born with homosexual tendencies.
I’m getting a little tired of coming home from work and having to right a damn essay explaining my opinion on music.
@OriginalA
“Nope. Now you are backpeddling.”
I’m not back pedaling I’m further explaining my point. It may be a surprise to you but your argument has not changed my opinion. Why would I back pedal when you haven’t given me a reason to?
“You claimed that people didn’t like the Art Form. Not the Genre. The entire Art Form. That would include only Music as an entire whole. You are backpeddling your claim and shifting the goal post to make it appear as if your claim is reasonable; it was not reasonable and now you are turning to underhanded and fallicious logic.”
The art form being techno music and to be more exact dubstep? Why would claiming that people dislike dubstep mean they dislike music as a whole? When did I ever say people disliked music as a whole? I’ve always stood behind that fact that people dislike entire genres and sub genres while loving only a few.
“As if this wasn’t high handed enough. You can CLAIM to be some outstanding paragon of things musical and logical, but really you just come off as a high handed bloke that can’t see his own bias.
I’m honest enough to fully admit I’m high handed and bias. You just flower it up and try to be more clever while pretending your shit don’t stink.”
You are clearly making things up at this point. Perhaps your anger is making my tone appear to be pretentious? I’m not an ‘outstanding paragon’ of music because I do my best to enjoy all genres/sub genres. I’m sharing this opinion because it has improved my enjoyment of music.
“Yes, because it is an oversimplified generalization that refuses to acknowledge the matter of fact that people are complex and have a wide range of biases, likes/dislikes, emotional ranges, and personal taste. You aren’t being fair to the people who are at least being honest enough to say what they mean to say.”
So why can’t they allow themselves to widen their range a bit? You seem to follow the ‘old dogs can’t learn new tricks’ ideology.
“You put words in their mouths and then call them lesser than whole for it.”
Yes I suppose I do make some general assumptions about what a person means when they attack an entire sub genre. As I have mentioned multiple times before I make these assumptions based on the people I have discussed music with. If I were to read a racist comment about a certain race I could safely assume that said racist hates other races as well. Correct? So when I ‘put words in there mouths’ I do it because of my own experiences of people disliking entire genres with out giving said genre a chance.
“Quite frankly as you seem to be attempting to present yourself as some sort of enlightened, or entitled, or at least respectable, person this should be beneath you; obviously it isn’t.”
Again you read a tone that frankly doesn’t exist. Am I enlightened because I chose to widen my range of music? I would say that I am only trying to convey an idea that brought more enjoyment for me. I disliked country music when I was younger and then I matured my views. Instead of disliking The entire genre I chose to enjoy certain songs. I widened my range. Now judging on the fact that most of the people I have met choose to dislike certain genres with out ever attempting to widen there tastes why wouldn’t I share my idea?
I’m not some asshole running around shoving my ideas down peoples throats. I’m simply trying to explain a view on music that lead to my own and others enjoyment of new forms of music.
“I will not say “of high tastes” but I will say that everyone I’ve meet was never so shallow as to like only one sub genre and reject all others.”
I actually let out a sigh when I read this. I dought there is anyone who likes ONLY one sub genre. Why would I ever claim that. I’m talking more on the people who stick to one genre or ‘brand’ of music. People who love country probably like soft rock and so on.
“Except you used them interchangably why making statement about other people not liking one or the other. Again, you aren’t being fair to the original speaker by inaccurately repeated what they have said and there by implying a conotation that was there there and then attacking THAT arguement. Nice Straw Man you have there. How hard was he to knock down?”
Interchangeable because they are the same. Dubstep is a part of techno. As I’ve explained before the people that i’ve met who dislike dubstep (the sub genre) dislike techno (the genre). So its really less of a random connection and more noticing a correlation. So I suppose my straw man is reinforced with rebar?
“Let’s take another look at that point say we:
“to refuse to listen to different types of music is like saying you only have one emotion.”
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… Nobody here has ever said that they are opposed to this. They simply do not like THAT type of music. Your entire arguement has been a strawman form the start.”
I suppose this is the point where you assumed I was saying people only listened to one sub genre? I suppose that is a valid point seeing as there really a few sentences to go off of.
Certain music is meant to evoke certain music. Reggae music rarely inspires anger. So if one was to only listen to metal (as a genre) only anger (or whatever you want to call it. pumped up feeling?) would be inspired correct? Though now that I think of it metal and dubstep convey very similar emotions.
And finally I’ll put one more example out there for you. If I’ve only eaten shrimp and crab can I really say I hate seafood? Perhaps if I let myself I could end up trying lobster and then like seafood. (Crustaceans being the sub genre and seafood being the genre of food)
@ptaine
“The fact of the matter is people are going to like what they’re going to like, and if you hold an expectation that people should listen to and broaden that scope to find what they like in any genre then you risk becoming as close-minded as those you are accusing of that very same thing.”
Yes but as i’ll point out again it really was more of a suggestion than a demand for change. And if it did come across as a demand it was mostly unintentional. And yes you could quote my original post as it did come across that way but it was more due to my wording being unguarded than anything.
“…I have a few reasons for that which I can share with you if the need arises, but the point is I don’t expect those who enjoy country to like what I like genrewise nor do I expect them to branch out of what they like simply to satisfy my own view of music.”
And being an individual you can obviously choose never to listen to it. I wouldn’t mind hearing your reasons but I understand if you don’t share. My reasons for liking country go something like this. I happen to have a few friends who frequent a country pub. Figuring I would just have to deal with the music I went. Now I’m not going to say that everyone would have the same approach but i eventually grew a bit of a liking for the music. By no way is it my favorite but I can say that I enjoy it. If you were in the same situation can you say that you wouldn’t eventually grow a liking? So from there I decided to take a similar approach to all music.
“While you are entitled to your opinion, I would hesitate to put any stock in the popularity among the younger generations. There are a multitude of various media that comes and goes through the younger generations public consciousness and none of it stays for very long, dubstep WILL have to evolve if it will remain and the likelihood of that happening and retaining any semblance of what made it popular now I would say is rather slim”
Very valid point. I think one of dubsteps strong points is its versatility. Hell I just listened to a remix of classical music and it sounded pretty good. Personally I think dubstep will continue to innovate. But then again we’re right back at the source problem. Nobody really knows the future of music. Its all based on educated guesses.
“”…Reznor…urging fans there to “steal” his music online instead of purchasing it legally”"
This actually seems to be a growing fad amongst artists. Record sales don’t convey popularity and influence anymore. Are you questioning the music industries ability to continue on amidst all the pirating?
“Also, in post 32 I provided a link to an interview with Moore, and then provided the relevant bit from that article in italics and quotations afterward stating Nine Inch Nails as an early influence, so I’m a little surprised that you didn’t know that considering I already provided that very information. I guess it’s because of the length of the post?”
I actually totally missed post 6 and I apologize for that. As for post 32 I did read it. Just to recap:
Quote by Skrillex/Sonny Moore:
“The first records I ever owned were ‘Fat of Land’ by the Prodigy and ‘Come To Daddy’ by Aphex Twin,” raves Sonny Moore, better known as emerging electronic visionary SKRILLEX. “Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails were also early influences.”
NIN and Marilyn Manson were influences. They were early influences though. And how much weight would you say being and early influence has? When he sat down and started creating dubstep tracks was he really inspired by NIN or was he truly inspired by the dubstep that already existed? When he was 14 making those tracks I dought they sounded anything like the music that made him famous.
“Given Moore’s penchant for changing styles, ie From First to Last – to – Skrillex, it’s not inconceivable that Moore eclipses Reznor for the whole of their respective careers. But in 10 years? That’s kind of hard to do all things considered.”
There is no dought in my mind Moore will inevitably change with the times. But yes as I mentioned before, at the bottom of post 46, doing what NIN did in almost a third of the time will be a tough task. What with the music industry in the midst of change and everything being about the ‘next new thing’.
Would it be presumptuous to say we’ve reached a standstill of a sorts? I’m not really sure how any new information could really answer our questions.
@I-REAPER-I
“1 in every 13 Armadillos born in captivity are born with homosexual tendencies.”
And Bats have the highest ratio of gay males. The real question is do armadillos listen to NIN or Skrillex more?
”Yes but as i’ll point out again it really was more of a suggestion than a demand for change. And if it did come across as a demand it was mostly unintentional. And yes you could quote my original post as it did come across that way but it was more due to my wording being unguarded than anything”
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Indeed, and I was trying to point out that suggestion whether unguarded or not was based on your own approach to music, and that approach is predicated on a few assumptions that are entirely subjective and not necessarily true for everyone. Then you imply that those who don’t adhere to your subjective assumptions we are misunderstanding what the point of music is.
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Now that isn’t to say that those assumptions aren’t reasonable, but they’re also not the only valid way to interpret and enjoy music either. For instance:
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”Certain music is meant to evoke certain music. Reggae music rarely inspires anger. So if one was to only listen to metal (as a genre) only anger (or whatever you want to call it. pumped up feeling?) would be inspired correct? Though now that I think of it metal and dubstep convey very similar emotions”
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I used to play guitar in a metal band and after a gig we had at a local bar this older gentleman came up to me and asked me why I was so angry. I laughed and asked him if he thought I was angry because of the music I chose to play. I think I caught him off guard because he looked surprised at my reaction but he inevitably said yes. So I asked him if he ever had a zen experience, a moment of complete clarity, zero thought, and utter peacefulness because that’s what playing guitar is for me. It doesn’t exactly matter what style, but metal is what I generally automatically play. The emotion that is “supposed” to be evoked is completely irrelevant at that point because it’s simply a matter of being. So I told the guy that I understand that metal by its very nature is aggressive, and there are angry people who play it, but that doesn’t mean that everyone who plays and listens to metal does so because of that aggressiveness.
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But if someone doesn’t want to listen to metal because it’s “angry” or whatever else and they don’t wish to peruse the metal genre to find a metal band they like, I fail to see how they are misunderstanding music. They just don’t like it or view music in the same way that you do
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”If you were in the same situation can you say that you wouldn’t eventually grow a liking? So from there I decided to take a similar approach to all music”
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Grow a liking? No. Tolerate would be a more accurate description, and the thing is I’ve always tolerated any form of music even if I personally find it awful. Country is definitely one of those genres for a multitude of reasons. First I find the drumming often redundant and unimaginative, it doesn’t necessarily have to be complex because I like a lot of Jazz and Blues drumming that is simplistic but sonically it just doesn’t fit the music for me. Secondly I happen to enjoy a lot of slide guitar work, but I find it an overused fill that almost always sounds the same in country songs. Thirdly the lyrical content I cannot relate to and it goes beyond the jokey “I lost my dog and got divorced” nonsense. I simply can’t relate to the lifestyle portrayed, and the grandiose treatment of innocuous events that attempt to derive some deeper life meaning out of them. I find the whole thing a tad bit silly and the twang in which those lyrics are very often delivered makes it hard for me to take the genre seriously. Anyway, I could go on, but I just wanted to clarify that I haven’t arrived at these conclusions by not listening to the genre. Quite the opposite in fact, but a deeper delving into the genre didn’t change my initial impression of why I didn’t like it the first few times I heard it.
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”This actually seems to be a growing fad amongst artists. Record sales don’t convey popularity and influence anymore. Are you questioning the music industries ability to continue on amidst all the pirating?”
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Not exactly, I was pointing out that based on the matches stipulations Reznor’s actions impacted the music industry. The influence on music isn’t simply relegated to the composition and performance aspects, but also the business side to which the nature of how that music is disseminated is a part of.
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”They were early influences though. And how much weight would you say being and early influence has? When he sat down and started creating dubstep tracks was he really inspired by NIN or was he truly inspired by the dubstep that already existed? When he was 14 making those tracks I dought they sounded anything like the music that made him famous.”
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Huge. And I say this from personal experience so take that as you will. I first learned to play guitar by playing along with Metallica, the Black Album being the first I ever went out and bought and I soon owned the rest in short order. Now, my musical tastes have changed over the years and how and what I play is reflected by that evolution, but Metallica’s influence is always there. Considering the electronic aspects of Nine Inch Nails music the influence on Skrillex is definitely there. It’s not like he went into Smooth Jazz or something and cited Reznor as an influence.
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”Would it be presumptuous to say we’ve reached a standstill of a sorts? I’m not really sure how any new information could really answer our questions.”
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Considering these matches rarely ever get resolved I don’t know if it’s necessarily a standstill since I think these matches are basically just for discussion purposes. Either way I think Reznor wins this based on the match stipulations, but beyond that it certainly is up in the air.
@ptaine
“Lol, to be honest with you it’s all just techno in my head. I pretty much just make the differentiation because other people do. I used to listen to Crystal Method and Prodigy back when they first came out and then I kind of fell out of listening to the genre until a buddy started showing me artists at work, then I got hooked again.”
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This is exactly, to the letter, what I do. I just call it all techno and go with it. And I used to listen to Benny Benassi, Prodigy, and other stuff before I stopped. Then (hilariously enough) I heard some Skrillex and got back into it.
does anyone remember when making music usually required musicians. skrillex never made hurt so nine inch nails. even for the small amount of dub step i do listen to i dont like skrillex
Nine Inch Naisl would whoop that ass lol. They made the 300 theme man!
*Nails*
lol as dud step dies we may leave this thread in the dust leaving NIN standing over skrillex victorious
What kind of music do you play at a dubstep funeral?
idk what kind?
Actually i dont know,that seemed like the set up for a joke but it wasn’t lol
oh lmao well now don’t i feel silly
“lol as dud step dies we may leave this thread in the dust leaving NIN standing over skrillex victorious”
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dubstep won’t die it’ll just become less cared for and mostly be used on movies+trailers involving the future, cyberpunk, sentient machines, and/or for specific dance routines.
it will die and probably make way for the next generation of elctronica music