Suggested by X
Perhaps three of the most well known antagonists today, the Terminators, Xenomorphs and Zombies will face off against each other.
The fight happens in New York during the time of Skynet and an army of xenomorphs also moved in.
NOTE: Terminators have 50,000 units. Xenomorphs arrive as an army of 500,000 and there are 5 million zombies.
Which group would win?
“Although, I will have to withdraw my previous statement saying that T-103s and Nemesis’ should be involved. Technically, they aren’t zombies, but as Draco pointed out, Bio Organic Weapons. Basically, to cut my rumblings short, let just abolish zombies and solely pit the Xeno against the Terms.”
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Um… Terminators vs Xenomorphs vs Resident Evil!!
@Tarbel, that is honestly a decent match-up. Albeit, I think the B.O.W.s would win because of their sheer firepower and numbers.
@Radec
True, they may by B.O.W’s… but it evens out the fight by a lot.
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I think the Zombies should be present, but as Bio Organic Weapons instead…
Makes for a much more interesting match.
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@Tarbel
Wesker Oroburos? I would think the other versions were much deadlier and did much more… I mean, Mkono was a tough bastard with ONE body and Uroburos Aheri had around 100-200… They are better for the reason that they consume EVERYTHING
Ahh, but the Nemesis don’t get ammunition refills >.>
Plus, the Tyrants are relatively weak compared to what Aliens can do, while the Terminators can probably tank a lot of the physical blows.
Then again, Terminators have guns so go trigger happy on Tyrants from a far.
“I always thought the T-100 was the really big one in Salvation…”
No, the Harvesters were. The T-100 was slightly bigger and more powerful than the ones in Terminator 3. They even become HK Tanks, in the future.
“Wesker Oroburos? I would think the other versions were much deadlier and did much more… I mean, Mkono was a tough bastard with ONE body and Uroburos Aheri had around 100-200… They are better for the reason that they consume EVERYTHING”
Well I just wanted a boss to represent the RE side, like queens and Skynet do.
So I gave them an uber beefed up Nemesis
“@Tarbel, that is honestly a decent match-up. Albeit, I think the B.O.W.s would win because of their sheer firepower and numbers.”
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I kind of doubt that. On the Terminator side they have plasma guns and titanium exoskeletons. On the Aliens side they have superior speed and strength. Plus since BOWs aren’t dead it gives the xenos the unfair advantage of gaining numbers since they can impregnate them.
@Rorschach
T-1′s actually. Don’t think there’s such thing as T-100, but it was referred to as such once in the Terminator movie.
I say strictly L4D zombies. Zombies with guns isn’t fair. Terms have guns, but the fewest numbers. Xeno are in the middle, but are the most stealthy and lethal at close and medium range, and Zeds rely on pure numbers.
“I kind of doubt that. On the Terminator side they have plasma guns and titanium exoskeletons. On the Aliens side they have superior speed and strength. Plus since BOWs aren’t dead it gives the xenos the unfair advantage of gaining numbers since they can impregnate them.”
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Let’s just say the virus stops the Xenomorphs from hatching, and the Xeno’s know this already.
I think that if we could all agree on the numbers of each fraction that would make it legitimately even, this could be an astonishing fight.
“I say strictly L4D zombies. Zombies with guns isn’t fair. Terms have guns, but the fewest numbers. Xeno are in the middle, but are the most stealthy and lethal at close and medium range, and Zeds rely on pure numbers.”
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But, the terminators have better weapons at their disposal, air support, and better coordination with Skynet on their side.
Zombies still rely on numbers with this because they are outmatched by both sides except for their vast amounts.
“But, the terminators have better weapons at their disposal, air support, and better coordination with Skynet on their side.”
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The Terminators can’t have air support. Both of the combatants here are melee based.
@Tarbel:
I think Terminator takes that if you have Skynet making all the battleplans and thinking things out, while you have Ground HK tanks and Aerial HKs along with T-1000s and T-Xs, all that, I think Terminators would take this battle. That’s a modern battle force with a super advanced computer AI giving orders to it’s units.
Draco, Harvester was that huge “Transformers” machine from Salvation. With Harvesters, HK Tanks, and T-1s for sentry defense (Aliens anyone?), and Aerial HKs, I don’t see xenos doing much. Zombies with that list would probably be more of a threat than the xenos with long range weaponry. (And a brain behind it with Wesker) The Terminators would actually have to fight that one out pretty good. But I’d think they’d take it, especially since even with miniguns and rocket launchers I don’t know how they are going to handle the T-1000s which can pretty much take anything they can throw at it without doing anything, and the T-X, which, while not as durable, would bring even more firepower to the table.
“But, the terminators have better weapons at their disposal, air support, and better coordination with Skynet on their side.”
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We don’t know that. It depends on what Admin decides.
I agree Reaper, but I felt like giving my take on Tarbels scenario. What do you think?
““I always thought the T-100 was the really big one in Salvation…”
No, the Harvesters were. The T-100 was slightly bigger and more powerful than the ones in Terminator 3. They even become HK Tanks, in the future.”
Yes, I meant this. Sorry.
Due to Skynet being involved, it would strategically use the forces at it’s disposal to Terminate the threat(s) at hand.
“The Terminators can’t have air support. Both of the combatants here are melee based.”
I think that would be fair, but, in all incarnations of the future Terminators, they have HK’s. The first machine we see in the Terminator franchise is an HK Aerial. Oh well. I’m pretty sure the Terminators can do this without air support, if necessary.
“The Terminators can’t have air support. Both of the combatants here are melee based.”
)”
There’s only 500 HK-Aerials. That’s air support but not a lot, although it is an advantage. However, it’s main use is providing ammunition to the other Terminators.
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Proposal for future reference :
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“Ok new proposal:
Terminators:
5,000 Harvesters
10,000 Moto-terminators
10,000 T-800′s (simplification)
5,000 T-1000′s
5,000 T-X’s
5,000 HK-Tanks
9,500 T-1′s
500 HK-Aerials
Skynet is there to control the Terminators and to supply them with ammunition.
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Xenomorphs:
150,000 Warriors
300,000 Drones
10,000 Queens
90,000 Predaliens
50,000 Praetorians
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Zombies:
1,000,000 T-103 Tyrants
499,999 Nemesis (mini guns only)
1 Uroboros (Albert Wesker to be exact
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“I think Terminator takes that if you have Skynet making all the battleplans and thinking things out, while you have Ground HK tanks and Aerial HKs along with T-1000s and T-Xs, all that, I think Terminators would take this battle. That’s a modern battle force with a super advanced computer AI giving orders to it’s units. ”
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Except that Skynet is vastly outnumbered and will find it extremely hard to detect Xenomorphs while dealing with 1 million super soldiers. Who I’d like to take note of, can re-use some of the weaponry from Terminators, or take ammo for Nemesis use.
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HK – Aerials won’t matter much when facing 150,000 warriors..
I agree Reaper, but I felt like giving my take on Tarbels scenario. What do you think?
“The Terminators can’t have air support.”
And why not? They clearly utilize it in all the future wars and movies. If we argue they can use the T-1s for static sentry defense, is that tactic not allowed too?
“Both of the combatants here are melee based.”
Xenos and Zombies are melee based.Terminators are not primarily melee based. They clearly use firearms far more than any other method of attack. I doubt they would try to lead a charge into battle or something like it’s 2000 BC.
Aerials won’t matter much when facing 150,000 warriors.
Between the Aerial HKs, Ground HKs and T-1s, I don’t think they’ll even get close.
Think about what would happen if you took 1000 people to charge a base set up with tanks and helicopters and bunkers and only 100 people operating it with no long range weapons across 3-4 football fields away. They’d never get close. Everyone would die and there’d just be a ring of corpses around the base. That’s what it’d be like. Aerial HKs would shred xenos from far distance, and provide very long range info for approching forces to Skynet to prepare for long before they got there.
Skynet wouldn’t be overwhelmed by how much it keeps track of. It has eyes on every HK, every terminator, every unit feeding it input that it’s more than equipped to handle. It’d be like playing a interesting game of Starcraft to it, except using real things and adapting strategy in real time.
We saw plasma small arms vapourize pineapple-sized chunks of Terminator exoskeleton in Sarah Connor Chronicles, so (given that a simple shotgun worked fine in Aliens) one hit anywhere on the body, head or even limbs would disable a xenomorph.
Have we ever seen a plasma bolt hit flesh? I’m wondering it it cauterizes the wound. If so, that would be a big boon for the Termies – pretty much only the T-1000s would have to worry about acid blood.
What happened to waiting for admin?
Wait wait wait… No zeds…PREDS!!!
/JK
Don’t add too many nemeses to the zed side, we need to give the others a chance too. And isn’t air support a little unfair for Xenos, as they could hover high above them and rain down hellfire? And let’s keep the 4-1 praetorian to queen ratio, without over-doing it on either of their numbers, just to make it fair.
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How about 5 queens, 20 praetorians, 10 ravagers, 399,965 warriors and 100,000 drones.
Or possibly ignore the queens and let the drones evolve to that stage.
Just a suggestion.
“I agree Reaper, but I felt like giving my take on Tarbels scenario. What do you think?”
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Which scenario?
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“Wait wait wait… No zeds…PREDS!!!
/JK”
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Why JK???? That sounds awesome!!!
“Why JK???? That sounds awesome!!!”
Depending on the type of Terminators being used, and how many predators, that would be an utter stomp. That has happened on the site before. Without the Xenos. One time, with Rambo, actually, if I remember correctly…
Zomb’s need to stay…
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Also, Tyrants and Nemisis’ are fairly smart on their own. Wesker isnt a master strategist, just a madman with dillusions of God-hood using the Uroborous. He is in no way an equivalent to an Alien Queen or Skynet.
Alien Queen is smarter than the average xenos, but its not that smart. Skynet and Weaker are far smarter. I’d say its about as smart as say, a dolphin, or like velocaraptor. Just that ‘clever girl’ smart.
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It’s canonical that individual Xenos are at or above human genuis level intellects, for some breeds, especially the higher ups. IIRC, being part of a Xeno hivemind link boosts that – though I could be wrong about that.
What ever gave people that idea. They are creatures of instinct and primal urges. They are easily tricked and out smarted throught the series. They only show the most rudimentiary levels of tricks. If they were smart, genius level intellects as suggested, they’d be predators.
I’m not saying Xenos are dumb, but standard xenos are about as smart as a smart dog, and Queens are probably closer to like a dolphin or chimpanzee. They are good at observational learning, but I doubt they understand the actual mechanics about it, and have only the most base level of simple understanding of machinery after observation.
I-REAPER-I
I was talking to the scenario given as follows by Tarbel.
Terminators:
5,000 Harvesters
10,000 Moto-terminators
10,000 T-800′s (simplification)
5,000 T-1000′s
5,000 T-X’s
5,000 HK-Tanks
9,500 T-1′s
500 HK-Aerials
Skynet is there to control the Terminators and to supply them with ammunition.
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Xenomorphs:
150,000 Warriors
300,000 Drones
10,000 Queens
90,000 Predaliens
50,000 Praetorians
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Zombies:
1,000,000 T-103 Tyrants
499,999 Nemesis (mini guns only)
1 Uroboros (Albert Wesker to be exact )
That was the scenario I was giving my thoughts about how it would go down.
I dunno, maybe something like it being explicitly stated in Alien-verse canon?
Seems like it’d be a fair impression to take away from an explicit statement … IIRC, it was that a Xeno (typical of its type) had an IQ of … 181? somewhere in the 180s, anyways.
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How are they tricked and outsmarted throughout the series? I mean, hell, in Aliens, they knew English (unless you wish to postulate that they can read and understand minds without a common language).
Where in Aliens did they ever show they understood English? Please post a clip or something.
As for being tricked
Alien-Ripley blowing it out of the airlock, and then blasting it with the engines.
Aliens- Same thing pretty much for the Queen. They also run head on into the Sentry guns which were protecting them, and they do it for close to 5 minutes of nothing but running into bullets before deciding it’s maybe not the best thing.
Alien 3- They lay out a trap for it, to kill it with molten lead and water combo. It’s lured into a trap.
Alien Resurrection.-Clearly didn’t understand english as the ship was constantly warning that it was going to crash and the need for escape. Aliens trapped onboard to be destroyed.
Again, referring to my proposal/scenario
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It’s stupid to think that air support with just 500 planes is gonna do much to anything except the zombies. It’s already been established that xenos are extremely hard to detect AND use stealthy methods to attack. Even if terminators go on the defensive against the xenos, they will still have a hard time defending when they can’t see the xenos half the time,
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The air support also is pretty much a mosquito compared to the number of forces the RE side has.
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But I’ll take your nerf on the xenos Smeagolicious! Assuming u know ur stuff
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Terminators:
5,000 Harvesters
10,000 Moto-terminators
10,000 T-800′s (simplification)
5,000 T-1000′s
5,000 T-X’s
5,000 HK-Tanks
9,500 T-1′s
500 HK-Aerials
Skynet is there to control the Terminators and to supply them with ammunition.
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Xenomorphs:
300,000 Warriors
195,000 Drones
500 Queens
2,500 Predaliens or Ravagers?
2,000 Praetorians
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Zombies:
1,000,000 T-103 Tyrants
499,999 Nemesis (mini guns only)
1 Uroboros (Albert Wesker to be exact, and I’ll let him have a rocket launcher just for fun
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How’s the proposal now?
@Tarbel: Firstly, you missed a 9 for the Nemesis’. Also, your scenario sucks and is unrealistic.
Whoa man. No need to get nasty epic.
Lol, first of all, the nemesis’s are not missing a 9, I decided to make the amount of zombies less. Second, you provide no reason asto why my proposal sucks and you have not proposed your on scenario either. So it’s quite obvious that the only reason you posted was to try and insult me and troll the thread.
Thanks so much for your input.
No. You don’t decide the match. You can’t change the scenario. It’s unrealistic because you have too many elite units.
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Here’s mine:
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Xenos:
300,000 Drones
199,000 Warriors
1 Queen (they don’t need any more)
4 Praetorians
45 Ravagers
950 Predaliens
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Terms:
The T-Infinity
2 T-1,000s
1 T-X
96 Hydrobots
500 Dire Wolves
400 Aerials
3,000 Centurions
6,000 Moto-Terminators
20,000 T-900s
5,000 T-7Ts
5,000 T-1s
7,000 T-70s
3,000 Harvesters
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Zombies:
I can’t say anything about this one, but you weren’t exactly making it fair.
First of all, take that T-Infinity out. Second, everyone here making scenarios is kind of wasting time, Admin is the only one with that power.
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“I dunno, maybe something like it being explicitly stated in Alien-verse canon?
Seems like it’d be a fair impression to take away from an explicit statement … IIRC, it was that a Xeno (typical of its type) had an IQ of … 181? somewhere in the 180s, anyways.”
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Uh noooooo. The Queen has an IQ of 175, she displayed a basic understanding of English. I have never heard of a typical Drone having genius level intellect, they are smarter than primates, but not genius level smart.
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Unless I severely missed something, in which case please show me where this was stated in the movies or novels.
We are sort of just posting up stuff right now. Technically, I think we are waiting on official word from either X (matchmaker) or an Admin.
Personally, I don’t like seeing so much of various xenos and Terms coming from comics, games and DVD art extras. I’d say we keep it simple. With that said, here’s what I’d put up.
Xenos:
499,000 Warriors/Drones
10 Queens
90 Predaliens.
Terms:
49,950 T-800s/T-850s
40 T-X
10 T-1000
or if we are expanding to include various machines and not just T-series, then
46,400 T-800/T-850
40 T-X
10 T-1000
500 Aerials
1000 Ground HKs
2000 T-1s
Something simple along these lines.
@Epic
Your scenario has a shit ton of elite units. Centurions are huge, Harvester are huge, Aerials are huge. And that T-Infinity is hacked. If the Terms lose 500 times the Infinity can just go back in time until it knows every move that will be made on the battle field.
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Giving one side time travel isn’t fair. Although your scenario does have potential. Aerials can stay at that number, cut the Harvesters and Centurions i half and give those number to the Motos and the T-800 an I think the Term side is good.
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@REAPER: Why take the T-Infinity out? Also, I do agree we should wait for admin (not X, T/M, his lack of knowledge is why we’re doing this anyway), I just did that basically to show Tarbel how a scenario can be better than his. But we do need admin.
@Tech
You are 900 short on the Xeno side.
But, pretty much keeping it to things we’ve seen in the movies that no one can really get too mad about canon wise.
@Epic
Because it’s whole point of existing is to alter the timeline in Skynets favor. Giving Terms the Infinity is like giving them a reset button on the battle.
@REAPER: Sorry, you posted while I was posting. I admit, I’m not entirely familiar with some of the Terms, nphaving not watched Salvation yet. Though, now I have researched the other Terms in order to be able to debate this match, so I see how what you’re saying is better.
Sorry, my iPad posted when i touched it to scroll. I have an idea. What if we give the Terms 50 less units than 50,000, and let them have a few Harvesters. Then, cut all the stronger units down in numbers, give those spots to weaker units, and see if the Harvesters can catch a few Xenos and make an anti-Xeno Terminator. Of course, that leads to endless speculation, so may not be a good idea, I think yours is better.
I think a few Harvesters are good, but giving them the ability to make hybrids is a stretch. Having said that it is a very interesting stretch. I would love to see a Ravager/T-1000 hybrid.
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It would be a Ravager with the same abilities as the T-1000, but the liquid would be glossy black……yeaaaaaah, glossy black.
Sorry, I misunderstood. Still, giving the Terms the ability to make specialized reinforcements is unfair unless we do the same for all three sides.
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I retain my comment on the Ravager-1000……glossy black.
“but giving them the ability to make hybrids is a stretch. ”
That would be a stretch, but, Skynet has shown to adapt to it’s enemy.
So, should we just keep tweaking suggestions, or should we get admin?
I think wait for the Admin. We can’t influence the decision since we are all biased to an extent.
“I think wait for the Admin. We can’t influence the decision since we are all biased to an extent.”
That’s what I’ve been saying since others began making lists of what forces to use for each side. I think it would be best for Admin to make the lists for the match.
That’s what I’ve been saying since others began making lists of what forces to use for each side. I think it would be best for Admin to make the lists for the match.
Couldn’t agree more, but I thought we were just putting up ones for fun while we wait on X and/or admin.
And I don’t think we should start getting into making new units and expanding on the fiction. Lets just keep it to canon.
And sorry for being 900 short on the xeno side. Add 900 more warriors/drones.
“You don’t decide the match. You can’t change the scenario.”
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What don’t you understand about the word PROPOSAL. I wasn’t deciding the match or actually changing the scenario. I was going along with I-REAPER-I’s idea of figuring out a better match set up and if the majority agrees, it could be used.
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” It’s unrealistic because you have too many elite units.”
And when have FP matches ever been that firm on realism -.-
Then you post your apparently “realistic” scenario with:
T-Infinity (Time hackery)
3,000 Centurions (Skynet’s largest mobile, walker-style ground Hunter Killer unit)
20,000 T-900′s and 7,000 T-70s (Future model and then the first model, yet nothing in between and neither of them are very well known..)
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I could go more into showing how dumb your post is but I’d rather not waste my time. I also don’t understand how the zombies side is unfair. Overpowered? Underpowered? Reason for?
No helpful feedback at all.
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@Tech/Mana
I guess simpler is better, but I’d still like to keep the zombies in this, or my case Resident Evil B.O.W.s
Soo revising my proposal again.
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Xenomorphs: 500,000 units
199,500 Warriors
200,000 Drones
100 Queens (To control it’s own easier)
400 Praetorians.
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Terminators: 50,001 units total
42,000 T-800/T-850
250 T-X
250 T-1000
500 HK-Aerials
1000 HK-Tanks
3000 T-1s
1,000 Harvesters
2,000 Moto-terminators
Skynet who controls the Terminators
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Resident Evil B.O.W.s: 1,000,001 units total
(after some research on the Tyrant 103′s I’ve found out that they become Super Tyrant when their power limiter is destroyed, and essentially become impervious to small arms fire and increase in strength+speed)
1,000,000 Tyrant 103′s residentevil.wikia.com/Tyrant_%28T-103_Model%29
1 Uroboros (Albert Wesker) who controls the Tyrant 103′s
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Side note: Tyrants are more susceptible to explosives.
Did you guys know that 47% of Emus born in captivity have down syndrome?
Thank you for that reaper lol
This is from the “Sarah Connor Cronicles” so it is from the other canon timeline branch so it may not be true of the T3 and later movie timeline branch, but a quote from the series on chassis alloys:
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“ John: That’s coltan; if that’s what you’re made of, no wonder you’re so dense.
Cameron: Not density, heat resistance. T-600 models had a titanium alloy endoskeleton, but it was vulnerable to heat. Coltan alloys have a much higher melting point.
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For a little background for that quote:
Most of the technology is the same between branches though the series adds slightly more advanced software and long term regenerating skin sheaths and some ideas like the Dark Horse comics used where Skynet decided to widen the target parameters and kill off other known officers besides just John and Sara and also assure its own creation so the resistance upped their efforts and sent more of their captured terminators back to stop that (otherwise the chase would get old fast in a series). Cameron is thought to be a customized T-888 like most of the others in the series (they were not allowed to use actively use any of the chassis or skin numbers from the movies to avoid conflicts with the movies though they could reference them briefly like in the quote) though they do not explicitly state what model she is exactly except for a cryptic ‘TOK715’ on one of the advertisements which may just refer to her skin sheath since they seem to use the “T2” style T-xxx designations for the endoskeleton robotic part of the terminators.
“ Infinite ammo too? No. They don’t have hammerspace. “
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No need for hammerspace, just the depots and factories that would be available to units in Skynets New York. And speaking of hammerspace the clips of the M41As in Aliens are a little too small to hold as much ammo as the counter shows if I remember correctly.
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“ 1. The M41A/2 has displayed superior penetration and damage output then the Westinghouse. “
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That would depend on what the target is. The Westinghouse uses plasma which implies extreme heat and possibly electrical damage while the slug firing M41A/2 does strictly kinetic damage (not counting the grenades) so it is much more impressive in punching holes in things. Killing live things the Westinghouse could simply do a better job with less visual fuss, while against hard inorganic targets where heat and electrical charge do not mean anything much the M41A would do a better job. The point isn’t how impressive does it look, but rather how well does it kill. To get Cameron’s take on it just watch the original Terminator movie closely, some of the resistance fighters are armed with M41As that were re-used from the Aliens movie.
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“ We have used quotes from movies and books while Terminator side has used wikis. I use wikis too, but only to prove things we already know depending on how long we have been a Piler. I have also used quotes from other threads. You obviously did’t read hard enough. “
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Actually they mostly used quotes from the movies and comics and showed pictures from the wikis that came from the movies. Since movie framecaps are the same whether hosted by a wiki or not it does not count as coming from a wiki.
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“ Praetorian Special Abilities: Armored Plating
Praetorians are resistant to small caliber arms fire. Only armor piercing ammunition and Minigun rounds are completely effective against the Praetorian. “
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Considering that the only fighters in the terminator series that are not always armored are humans (and even then they wear armored tactical combat suits when possible or at least vests and helmets) finding armor piercing weapons would not be a problem.
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“ The Terminators can’t have air support. Both of the combatants here are melee based. “
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Air cover or not Terminators are not ‘melee based’ they are shown to do mostly ranged combat.
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“Thank you for that reaper lol”
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Haha I like to make up random statistics for no reason.
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“Air cover or not Terminators are not ‘melee based’ they are shown to do mostly ranged combat.”
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He was referring to the Zeds and Xenos being melee based.
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Reaper was that a real statistic out did you make it up
Or*
“No need for hammerspace, just the depots and factories that would be available to units in Skynets New York. And speaking of hammerspace the clips of the M41As in Aliens are a little too small to hold as much ammo as the counter shows if I remember correctly.”
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1. Ammo depots were never stated to be in this match same as they not being allowed reinforcements,
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2. You remember incorrectly then. The magazines, stop calling them clips I hate it when people call them clips there’s a difference between the too, are quite large in the length and in width and the ammunition is stacked within in a different pattern then modern magazines. It also helps that the bullets are relatively small.
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”
That would depend on what the target is. The Westinghouse uses plasma which implies extreme heat and possibly electrical damage while the slug firing M41A/2 does strictly kinetic damage (not counting the grenades) so it is much more impressive in punching holes in things. Killing live things the Westinghouse could simply do a better job with less visual fuss, while against hard inorganic targets where heat and electrical charge do not mean anything much the M41A would do a better job. The point isn’t how impressive does it look, but rather how well does it kill. To get Cameron’s take on it just watch the original Terminator movie closely, some of the resistance fighters are armed with M41As that were re-used from the Aliens movie.”
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1. No its not better at killing organic targets. Explosive rounds will always be superior at killing organic targets because of something called over-penetration. For example the 5.62 round is not designed specifically to kill instantly but to maim and wound since a wound takes more combatants off the field then kill. If you kill a target he is no longer of any concern. He’s dead. If you wound a target it takes 2 to carry him off and more to patch him up. However explosive rounds enter the body then pop doing massive internal damage spreading fragments through out your body as well as opening the wound to the size of an adult male fist. You can survive a hit from the Westinghouse if it misses your major organs and blood vessels. You will not likely survive something that rips your insides apart and puts a 2-4 inch hole in your chest.
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2. The they are using left-over weapons but they never explicitly stated to be M41s. It would make no sense for them to be M41s because
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A. They take place in different universes.
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B. The M41 did not even go into service until 2150ish. Thus even if the universes mingle the closest they’d come to the M41 series is the Weyland Storm Rifle which came into sevice in 2070 which bears a striking resemblance to the M41 series.
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“Considering that the only fighters in the terminator series that are not always armored are humans (and even then they wear armored tactical combat suits when possible or at least vests and helmets) finding armor piercing weapons would not be a problem.”
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They mean anti-tank weaponry. Specifically since in the first AvP the M41A could not even damage the Praetorian. You had to either use the Smartgun, I think, the Sadar, the Minigun, or of course the Grenade Launcher. They later changed this in AvP 2010 and justified it by saying they increase the muzzle velocity of the rifles in the new variant and improved the ammunition.
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“Air cover or not Terminators are not ‘melee based’ they are shown to do mostly ranged combat.”
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I was referring to the Zombies and Xenomorphs being melee based not the Terminators. I’m not an idiot. Giving the Terminators air support against melee based enemies makes no sense.
Hello, I’m back. And after reading the last comments, I have to ask: where the hell we get the idea that xeno is genius level smart???? In the movie it’s seam like they are as smart as chimpanzee- dolphins as most. And if term get skynet, i think they take it, due to having a genius tactical on their side
I made it up haha.
===
“Hello, I’m back. And after reading the last comments, I have to ask: where the hell we get the idea that xeno is genius level smart???? In the movie it’s seam like they are as smart as chimpanzee- dolphins as most. And if term get skynet, i think they take it, due to having a genius tactical on their side”
===
Only one person said that and I corrected him. The Xenos are smarter than primates and dolphins, but not genius. The Queen has an IQ of 175 though.
“Hello, I’m back. And after reading the last comments, I have to ask: where the hell we get the idea that xeno is genius level smart???? In the movie it’s seam like they are as smart as chimpanzee- dolphins as most. And if term get skynet, i think they take it, due to having a genius tactical on their side”
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1. They are smarter then chimps and dolphins. Last time I checked they were able to learn how to manipulate basic human technology, learned at a rate beyond that of a monkey, and were able to think and coordinate their efforts and set traps. There is no animal in the entire animal kingdom that sets traps with bait in them. They also have a knowledge of self. They know their blood is corrosive and have used that to their advantage many times. And to go back to learning how to manipulate technology if one has the patients and the knowledge of how to control them, namely control the queen control the hive, one can teach them how to use firearms and basic marine formations. Yes they know what guns are. People seem to forget these are not regular animals we are dealing with. These are artificially created bioweapons designed to kill planets of sentient advanced lifeforms.
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2. Skynet has genius level intellect yet it lost to ragtag militia. Vietnam has taught us superior intelligence and tech does not always win a war. Afghanistan taught that to the Soviets. So lets not bring genius intellect into the equation unless it actually means something important.
“2. Skynet has genius level intellect yet it lost to ragtag militia. Vietnam has taught us superior intelligence and tech does not always win a war. Afghanistan taught that to the Soviets. So lets not bring genius intellect into the equation unless it actually means something important.”
This is very true. History has sown us multiple examples of this, excluding the ones previously stated.
“The Queen has an IQ of 175 though.”
I’d still like to know where that’d come from, where is the proof?
“Ammo depots were never stated to be in this match same as they not being allowed reinforcements.”
Yet you keep suggesting Praetorians should get in somehow. X never has put them in the match. The ammo thing is ambiguous, but he’s made pretty clear which xenos he wants in the match.
Quote:
“Xenomorphs:
10 Queen Xenomorphs
5 Predaliens
499,985Normal xenomorphs the ones seen on the movies”
Only ones in the movies. Not ones in games, and especially not using game mechanics to justify what they do.
“Explosive rounds will always be superior at killing organic targets because of something called over-penetration”
Overpenetration is when a bullet goes through its target and out of the other side, potentially going on to damage something or someone else.
Also, and this is just conjecture, but I’ve heard plasma would be great against organic beings (human beings as it may not be the same for a xeno based on different structure) because the extreme heat of a plasma round can cause great damage and simulate a “explosive round” due to causing water in the body to rapidly form steam, and that great expansion (Steam takes well over 1000 times the volume of liquid water) in the body causes extreme damage to any living organism with a large amount of water in it’s body. But like I said, conjecture.
” It also helps that the bullets are relatively small.”
A 10mm caseless would be much larger than most rifle rounds used in modern militaries. M16 uses 5.56 mm, m60s use 7.62mm, and a .50 cal is about 12.5 mm for comparison. And even though it’s ‘caseless’ the explosive section of it still makes up that volume.
“They mean anti-tank weaponry. Specifically since in the first AvP the M41A could not even damage the Praetorian. You had to either use the Smartgun, I think, the Sadar, the Minigun, or of course the Grenade Launcher.”
Sadar is the only anti-tank thing in the list. The smart gun uses the same 10mm caseless ammo as the pulse rifle. I can’t say much on the specific minigun they used in whatever game your pulling it from. And grenade launcher, well, I’ll just say this: If these are the weapons that could take out a Praetorian, that arguably makes T-800s tougher than them, as a T-800 took 3 grenades from a grenade launcher dead to the chest without any damage whatsoever
“Skynet has genius level intellect yet it lost to ragtag militia”
PIS plot induced stupidity and convenience. No one wants to see humans lose.
Also, Afghans won because of US support, giving them weapons and training to fight the proxy war, same with Vietnam having all the Chinese support it can handle to supply it with weapons and training to fight the proxy war with the US. Also, neither the US or Soviet Union went on full total warfare like they did against the Germans and Japanese during WW2. USA fought half hearted (declining support, no full force total warfare tactics) and the Soviets were facing a falling economy and international pressure, along with similar unwillingness to go full warfare WW2 style “Bomb everything until we are out of bombs”. Obviously, neither side wanted to go far enough for them to call the other side in and turn the proxy war into WW3 with nukes. Vietnam and Afghanistan did not face the full power of either military for various reasons, which in combination for actually being very smart themselves, gave them victory.
They are smarter then chimps and dolphins.
Proof. I’ll agree they show some signs of not being rocks, but if you’d have something that sets them above that I’d like to see it. Nothing I’ve seen has Xenos coming even close to machine intellegence.
“Last time I checked they were able to learn how to manipulate basic human technology”
“..and were able to think and coordinate their efforts and set traps”
Wolves, hyenas, and all sorts of pack animals do this. Ants and bees coordinate. I’m not calling them necessarily smart or intelligent because of it.
“They know their blood is corrosive and have used that to their advantage many times”
The same could be said of spiders, snakes, and other venomous creatures. That they are venomous and appear to know it and use it to their advantage.
“And to go back to learning how to manipulate technology if one has the patients and the knowledge of how to control them, namely control the queen control the hive”
You can mimic what someone does with tech and not know how it works or if your using it correctly. Just because the Queen from Aliens used an elevator after seeing Ripley did it doesn’t mean the Queen knew what it was doing. Rats, dogs, cats, apes are all capable of this, and maybe to a greater degree than xenos have shown (at least in the movies)
As for the second part about the Queen and the hive. Queen Ants and Queen Bees and various insects accomplish the same thing with no real intellect.
Yes they know what guns are.
Funny, as they don’t seem to take cover, or go behind anything to avoid it, or do some very basic things to avoid being shot. In Aliens they ran head on into fire from Sentries for a good chunk of time before figuring out that heading towards sentries=instant death. Their strategy against firearms is to send enough bodies until you reach the target or they run out of bullets.
Dogs and cats can be trained to do all sorts of tricks, call 911, use a toliet and manipulate basic human tech on a basic level.
“There is no animal in the entire animal kingdom that sets traps with bait in them.”
Must not have heard of Trap door spiders, Anglerfish, Snapping turtles, Venus flytraps and the several species of both animal and plants that set traps for their prey with and without lures. And they are not too smart.
So, those are my current thoughts about what’s going on. Mostly quoted Redrum. (Nothing personal, we just seem to see this thing very differently. It’s been a lively and sometimes heated debate, but nothing personal, FYI)
“I’d still like to know where that’d come from, where is the proof?”
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“Also, in Aliens: Earth Hive, a Queen is given an IQ test of sorts and gets a score of 175.”
—
avp.wikia.com/wiki/Queen_(caste)
===
And if the wiki quoting a book isn’t good enough, there’s this.
—
“Orona is feeling very bad about not being able to stop the Aliens. Holed up in one of the last strongholds,he reflects on how it all came to end so badly. There’s an interesting part about how the Aliens aregetting smarter, and how humans are responsible for this (presumably by fighting them). Whilst theaverage Alien is allegedly about as intelligent as a dog, they find a Queen who tests to ‘nearly 175 on theIrwin-Schlatler scale… smarter than most of the humans ever born.”
—
www.scribd.com/doc/52928686/Pedantry-Without-Pity-Earth-Hive
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“Yet you keep suggesting Praetorians should get in somehow. X never has put them in the match. The ammo thing is ambiguous, but he’s made pretty clear which xenos he wants in the match.”
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X has no say in this. We are still waiting (and waiting) for Admin to come give us a decent scenario since X couldn’t make one on his own. His first three scenarios were flawed. The first wasn’t specific enough at all, the second and third used models that never existed and out dated models.
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“A 10mm caseless would be much larger than most rifle rounds used in modern militaries. M16 uses 5.56 mm, m60s use 7.62mm, and a .50 cal is about 12.5 mm for comparison. And even though it’s ‘caseless’ the explosive section of it still makes up that volume.”
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10mm Auto: 750 ft·lbf (1,020 J) for 200 gr (13 g) @ 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s)
—
That is the bullet velocity and energy produced by the 10mm round. A little over 1,000 J.
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5.56mm: 12.31 g (190 gr), 4.02 g (62 gr), 945.5 m/s (3,100 ft/s), 1,797 J
—
That is the velocity and energy produced by the 5.56 round. The round the M4 Carbine fires. Almost 1,800 J. It is a bit lighter than the 10mm, but travels faster.
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“Wolves, hyenas, and all sorts of pack animals do this. Ants and bees coordinate. I’m not calling them necessarily smart or intelligent because of it.”
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Really? You’ve seen wolves and ants use basic human technology and set baited traps for their prey? I would hate to live where you live my friend.
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“The same could be said of spiders, snakes, and other venomous creatures. That they are venomous and appear to know it and use it to their advantage.”
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The only application snakes use their venom is to hunt. That is instinct. But the Xenos understand the concept of corrosion and use it to gain entry to some ares by melting through, to free their Queen, and to turn a severed tail into an even deadlier acid hose.
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“You can mimic what someone does with tech and not know how it works or if your using it correctly. Just because the Queen from Aliens used an elevator after seeing Ripley did it doesn’t mean the Queen knew what it was doing. Rats, dogs, cats, apes are all capable of this, and maybe to a greater degree than xenos have shown (at least in the movies)
As for the second part about the Queen and the hive. Queen Ants and Queen Bees and various insects accomplish the same thing with no real intellect.”
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The Queen wasn’t copying anything. She was learning. She understood what a human weapon was and understood Ripley’s vocal threat without ever being exposed to weapons nor English. And the level of control she has over her Hive far exceeds a bee or an ant. Bees don’t actively tell each member what to do, they rely on instinct and occasionally pheromones. The Queen telepathically communicates with every member and relays any new information to her entire Hive. Also, if you can make a rat use an elevator then you need to get off the site and go cure cancer.
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“Must not have heard of Trap door spiders, Anglerfish, Snapping turtles, Venus flytraps and the several species of both animal and plants that set traps for their prey with and without lures. And they are not too smart.”
===
Trap door spider does not bait, it sits and waits for vibrations to travel through the webbing around the opening. Anglerfish do not set traps, they lure prey in. Having a trap built into your body and relying on instinct to use it is not as impressive and building a trap for yourself. Plus catching flies and fish that have no idea what a trap is is different than trapping humans who know there is an Alien after them.
“You’ve seen wolves and ants use basic human technology”
I’ve seen dogs and cats use toliets. A toliet is a human technology, but I doubt it understands how it works, or the underlying systems that allow it to function.
Coyotes and racoons regularly get around fences and such. Common Ravens have been observed to manipulate others into doing work for them, such as by calling wolves and coyotes to the site of dead animals. The canines open the carcass, making it more accessible to the ravens for feeding. There are insects that’ll mimic the mating call of other insects and feed on the ones that respond, another type of trap. Wolves and Killer whales will herd fish towards other members of the pack, sending them into a trap where they will be eaten. Rats/mice have used a pulley lift, buttons to open doors and all sorts of things requiring abstract thought and problem solving skills to just get to food and or sex. There are plenty of examples of animal intellegence that revolve around traps and problem solving, even ones of self-awareness, mathmatics and creativity, but it doesn’t put them into the league of humans. And I’ll accept that someone wrote 175 for a Queen IQ, but there is little evidence of it actually utilizing that intellect it supposed to have.
Also, I don’t remember where a Xeno set a baited trap for people. In Aliens, they entered the hive to get to the colonists, but I wouldn’t say the Aliens were expecting or planning that out. Just sort of worked (or didn’t work) for them.
“X has no say in this.”
X is the matchmaker. We need the admin (who we are waiting on) to tell us he no longer has word in the scenario he made first before we move on. This is still his baby until then.
She understood what a human weapon was and understood Ripley’s vocal threat without ever being exposed to weapons nor English
There wasn’t a verbal threat when she was in the egg chamber. And all sorts of animals react to harsh voices. Doesn’t make them smarter because of it. She just showed that she could make fire, and fire=bad. Most animals fear fire, especially around the babies. Any understanding would be at the absolute most basic level of it.
All the weapons stuff makes the rifle rounds more powerful than the 10mm, probably because you’re using a 10mm handgun round info. However, the 10mm caseless light armor piercing round the colonial marines use is fictional, but we can say probably more powerful than the real 10mm counter part, but I wouldn’t assume by too much.
“The Queen wasn’t copying anything.”
Hit button, go up. Queen hit button, queen goes up. Monkey see, monkey do. Especially when convenient to plot and fueled with rage.
“The only application snakes use their venom is to hunt”
False, often also used for self defense when biting. Snakes often have a ‘hunt bite’ and a ‘defense bite’ for how much venom they will give something. So, they use it very well for defense. And it’s not like it’s a huge brain buster to know what your own body can do and be used for self defense. It very well could just be instinct for it to rub and throw it’s blood into enemies to defend itself after injury.
Plus catching flies and fish that have no idea what a trap is is different than trapping humans who know there is an Alien after them.
If that person doesn’t know there is a trap there, he won’t be expecting it and the trap will work. If he doesn’t know he’s being led to other Xenos, he’ll fall right into it. People get killed by animals. Doesn’t mean they are smarter.
“You’ve seen wolves and ants use basic human technology”
I’ve seen dogs and cats use toliets, turn on and off lights.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m-P-03NSLM
I’ll save you from the toliet. Take my word for it though, its on youtube.
A toliet is a human technology, but I doubt it understands how it works, or the underlying systems that allow it to function. Same with a light switch.
Coyotes and racoons regularly get around fences and such. Common Ravens have been observed to manipulate others into doing work for them, such as by calling wolves and coyotes to the site of dead animals. The canines open the carcass, making it more accessible to the ravens for feeding. There are insects that’ll mimic the mating call of other insects and feed on the ones that respond, another type of trap. Wolves and Killer whales will herd fish towards other members of the pack, sending them into a trap where they will be eaten. Rats/mice have used a pulley lift, buttons to open doors and all sorts of things requiring abstract thought and problem solving skills to just get to food and or sex. There are plenty of examples of animal intellegence that revolve around traps and problem solving, even ones of self-awareness, mathmatics and creativity, but it doesn’t put them into the league of humans. And I’ll accept that someone wrote 175 for a Queen IQ, but there is little evidence of it actually utilizing that intellect it supposed to have.
Also, I don’t remember where a Xeno set a baited trap for people. In Aliens, they entered the hive to get to the colonists, but I wouldn’t say the Aliens were expecting or planning that out. Just sort of worked (or didn’t work) for them.
“X has no say in this.”
X is the matchmaker. We need the admin (who we are waiting on) to tell us he no longer has word in the scenario he made first before we move on. This is still his baby until then.
She understood what a human weapon was and understood Ripley’s vocal threat without ever being exposed to weapons nor English
There wasn’t a verbal threat when she was in the egg chamber. And if refering to “Let go of her you Bitch” scene, all sorts of animals react to harsh voices and tones.. Doesn’t make them smarter because of it. She just showed that she could make fire, and fire=bad. Most animals fear fire, especially around the babies. Any understanding would be at the absolute most basic level of it. Nothing showed the queen had some sort of deeper understanding of things.
All the weapons stuff makes the rifle rounds more powerful than the 10mm, probably because you’re using a 10mm handgun round info. However, the 10mm caseless light armor piercing round the colonial marines use is fictional, but we can say probably more powerful than the real 10mm counter part, but I wouldn’t think by too much.
“The Queen wasn’t copying anything.”
Hit button, go up. Queen hit button, queen goes up. Monkey see, monkey do. Not that big of a stretch. And a much smaller one than the one you’re suggesting.
“The only application snakes use their venom is to hunt”
False, often also used for self defense when biting. Snakes often have a ‘hunt bite’ and a ‘defense bite’ for how much venom they will give something. So, they use it very well for defense. And it’s not like it’s a huge brain buster to know what your own body can do and be used for self defense. It very well could just be instinct for it to rub and throw it’s blood into enemies to defend itself after injury. The ‘acid hose’ thing could have been just a instinct after it was injured in that manner.
Plus catching flies and fish that have no idea what a trap is is different than trapping humans who know there is an Alien after them.
If that person doesn’t know there is a trap there, he won’t be expecting it and the trap will work. If he doesn’t know he’s being led to other Xenos, he’ll fall right into it. People get killed by animals. Doesn’t mean they are smarter. Even the cutting power sequence isn’t a sure sign of intellegence. Cats and dogs and rats chew on electrical wires, Xenos might even be attracted to them if they sense electrical signals. They might bite it and short it out/destroy it in that method. Doesn’t mean they understand the electricity goes to lights and machinery and all that.
I’ll buy the 175 IQ (stated, although I stand that they Queens have not seemingly made good use or examples of having such an intellect. Underachievers maybe.) and even the psychic Queen, because it’s in the book, and slightly hinted at in Alien 3. But, I haven’t seen anything from xenos that shows any sort of real intellect, especially not much concerning battle strategy and tactics. Honestly, they seem to have the same general battle plan as the giant ants from “Them”
Sorry for effectively saying the same thing twice. I thought I stopped the first one before it sent out so I could modify the post. Guess it didn’t.
“Battle Scenarios that are not clear, or have obviated crucial elements, must be brought to the attention of; A) Admin; B) the battle’s poster; C) the battle’s creator. Any scenario to be altered must be approved by Admin, or any party appointed by him, to be made official. That said, debates may continue without an official determination made if all sides agree upon the disputed terms, but any outcome from these may be rendered null by an official ruling at a later time.”
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Understand? X’s post may reign supreme if people agree, but there are problems with it so we should come up with a scenario that everyone agrees with. But the thread’s dying fast anyway so I guess there’s no point in doing so…
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As for the intelligence thing, Alien Queen’s IQ of 175 is canon (I assume), but the intelligence of its underlings have never been stated. So anything else is probably conjecture.
I think their natural stealthy hunting instinct is good enough without having to be clever.
The IQ seems to be 175 Tarbel (although she doesn’t seem to utilize it) with the underlings only being about dog smart.
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“ 1. Ammo depots were never stated to be in this match same as they not being allowed reinforcements, “
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The scenario is specifically set in the Skynet New York in the header:
“ The fight happens in New York during the time of Skynet and an army of xenomorphs also moved in. “
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That would mean that whatever is in that location would be available for use since it was not specifically noted otherwise.
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“That would mean that whatever is in that location would be available for use since it was not specifically noted otherwise.”
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You can’t assume that. The match has to explicitly state that there are ammo deposits.
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@Tech
You are comparing instinct to intelligence and trying to make the Xeno feats sound less impressive by dumbing them down. If I continue to argue this with you it will end the same way it ended before this thread calmed down. So I’ll let someone else do it. Also, X has no say even though he is the original poster. He knows nothing about either of the combatants, therefore rendering him unfit to create another scenario.
@Reaper:
You are trying to make the Xenos seem more intelligent than they actually prove to be, the actions seen and provided as proof don’t prove a real intelligence beyond a doubt. I haven’t seen anything that suggests they have anything near a human level intellect, nothing that suggests they operate on anything more than primal instinct and urges.
It reminds me of Tremors 2, where the graboids seem to disable radio equipment, cars and trucks and seem like tactical geniuses doing it. They only did it because those things were hot and got picked up by there IR vision. “You mean they’ve been acting so smart, because they’re so stupid?”
And this isn’t anything to get heated at all about. This is a good debate, and its expected you’d debate with people of different opinions than yourself with their own reasons and citations and all that. It’s been a good debate. I’ve enjoyed this meeting of the minds. So, nothing personal.
And the FP rules posted above would still leave X in charge of this until an admin actually removes the match from X’s ownership. Until then, X is still technically in charge of this thing.
“They only did it because those things were hot and got picked up by there IR vision.”
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You really don’t understand what intelligence means. The graboids were not disabling radio equipment because they knew what it did, they were doing it because they were warm. All the animals you listed such as rats and cats and dogs using toilets and shit. That is called training, a trained animal does not mean it is super smart. Xenos have never been trained, yet they show the ability to push a button and freeze a human.
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In Aliens the Xenos even managed to cut the power and bring down the human numbers fro 7 to 2.
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“The aliens in Aliens are like a human army and act like soldiers taking tactical decisions and maneuvers. They do what any enemy army would do and perform the well known warfare operations and ambushing attacks. According to James Cameron in his Starlog interview from 1987, the lone alien that took care of the dropship killed Ferro to crash the dropship and leave the marines on LV-426 and cut their ammo and gun supply. Not to mention it was able to operate the door inside of it. Later on in the movie we see the aliens successfully sneaking up on the marines from all directions, and meshing in with the environment making themselves invisible, like the camouflaged commandos. We see their efforts to exhaust the ammo of the sentry guns and then aliens retreating to make new plans. Typically for warfare operations, they cut the power to blind their enemy, split into groups/squads and quietly sneak in on them from above, below and the back – the lone alien that Burke encounters was a part of the ambushing team, trying to cut the marines off from the other side.
It’s also worth noting that aliens behaved like military/special forces in hostage situation with Ripley and the Queen – They started moving in slowly because Ripley had a gun almost aimed at the Queen, they didn’t want to risk it so they moved like all the other aliens in Aliens – like special forces, trying to get to the person holding a hostage by walking up very slowly, so they wont startle him. They did so until the Queen ordered them to back off.
The aliens of Aliens defeated a highly trained and highly equipped marines. Such approach represents how dangerous and terrifying aliens really are because they’re going against military and they’re portrayed as advanced military themselves. It’s hard to see how lethal the aliens really are that well when unarmed weaker opponents are facing the alien. If an adult person beats up a smaller, helpless child it doesn’t really show how tough he is, but if he beats up a person who’s armed with knives and sticks and baseball bat then it’s a different story.”
—
www.jamescamerononline.com/BiomechanicalInsect.htm
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Happy?
Also, the Xeno in Alien was a baby. Everything it did was done using only a couple days of life experience. So, get me a two day old ANYTHING and try and make it use the toilet.
zombies are definitely out of this but i think the only way the xenomorphs would be able to take out the terminators would be with their acidic blood.
saying that, since there are a lot more xenos than terminators i think the xenos may have this by sheer numbers
“Also, the Xeno in Alien was a baby”
Doesn’t explain the xenos from Aliens which had a much much longer life and experience doing so. Plus, it’s an adult anyway in it’s life cycle, the chestbuster is the baby. The drones and warrior xenos are the adults. Most animals mature much faster than humans, in the amount of days or weeks, so it’s not that far of a stretch that the Xenos mature quickly and become adults fast.
@troll:
Sheer numbers won’t help if they are being gunned down by the hundreds before they can even get close to the terminators.
“Doesn’t explain the xenos from Aliens which had a much much longer life and experience doing so. Plus, it’s an adult anyway in it’s life cycle, the chestbuster is the baby. The drones and warrior xenos are the adults. Most animals mature much faster than humans, in the amount of days or weeks, so it’s not that far of a stretch that the Xenos mature quickly and become adults fast.”
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It was 2 days old. It was young, it doesn’t matter what stage of it’s life it is in, it is 2 days old. And physical maturation has no effect on life experience. If humans grew to full maturity in 2 days, we would still have to learn everything. Like I said, find me a 2 day old primate and see if it can fucking walk let alone solve basic puzzles. Face it, you are wrong. And seeing as how you have no response to the quote I posted, this intelligence argument is done. Nobody said the Xenos were geniuses. The Queen is close, but still no. My point is that the Xenos are smart, cunning and tactical.
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And if you want to go by FP rules then you are wrong again. They state that if a match is unclear or if it leaves out crucial elements than it is to be brought to Admins attention OR the suggestor. Since we brught our concerns to X’s attention and he failed twice, Admin now has control of the match, X’s authority is moot.
“Sheer numbers won’t help if they are being gunned down by the hundreds before they can even get close to the terminators”
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Yet again Tech, you ignore EVERYTHING about the Xenos. They will not rush the Terms, what part of “Masters of Stealth” do you not understand? And even if they do rush and are gunned down by the hundreds….hundreds of losses mean nothing to a force of 500,000.
Sorry for the tri-post.
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“but i think the only way the xenomorphs would be able to take out the terminators would be with their acidic blood.”
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Did you even bother to read the thread before commenting?
“Yet again Tech, you ignore EVERYTHING about the Xenos. They will not rush the Terms”
They charged head on into the sentry turrets go head on to the marines outside the hive, ect ect. Don’t see why they’d change up the strats now.
They charged the guns to waste the ammo.
The could have thrown stuff in front of it to waste ammo to do that. They didn’t know if the ammo was gone, or they would have kept going knowing there were only 10 bullets left in 1 gun. They didn’t know and tried going another way after like 50-60 of them got blown up. They keep charging head on into guys with full ammo. They are not smart about guns. They come out of cover, run head on into firearms, what else is there to say.
Did you not read what I posted? Seriously Tech, get your head out of your ass and get real. Read the quote and drop it. I have already proved you wrong twice, once with the Queen and once about the Xenos. Both of the times I used quotes.
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Here, I’ll even save you the trouble of actually having to read my quote.
—
“We see their efforts to exhaust the ammo of the sentry guns and then aliens retreating to make new plans.”
Reaper right.
and
“debates may continue without an official determination made if all sides agree upon the disputed terms, but any outcome from these may be rendered null by an official ruling at a later time.”
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If we are still continuing with X’s original post, Xenos will win because the Terminators are too few in number and have rather bad sensory devices.
reaper IS right lol..
Tarbel, all that quote says is we can talk about fun scenarios all we want in good fun while waiting for offical word, but they don’t actually mean anything and can be thrown out by an admin at a later time.
“Battle Scenarios that are not clear, or have obviated crucial elements, must be brought to the attention of; A) Admin; B) the battle’s poster; C) the battle’s creator. Any scenario to be altered must be approved by Admin, or any party appointed by him, to be made official”
This is the actual matter at hand. X wasn’t clear and didn’t have critical elements. Who can we go to for correction? A, Admin, B) X C) X.
Any scenario altered must be approved by the Admin, or someone acting as an admin. None of that has happened, so until Admin or X shows up, it stands as described by X. It’s in the rules, thats what they are.
“We see their efforts to exhaust the ammo of the sentry guns and then aliens retreating to make new plans.”*
*Citation needed
Here is a real quote from the movie.
“Next time they can come right up and knock”
“Yeah, but they don’t know that.”
Source: Aliens 1986.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHkKIqcp86E
You say they charged the guns to waste ammo. Why lose all those troops wasting ammo, and then not take advantage of the fact you ran the sentries dry. They don’t even try to go up to them or anything. They try to get a new way to go around after losing all those xenos. That’s just tossing a couple of dozen troops to die for no reason. They just run them dry, but then go around them. Why not have gone around them in the first place then and avoid losing so many warriors?
It makes no sense. Why, because it’s not rational thinking. They are just mindlessly running at the sentries, and only after they realize as any animal would after seeing a few dozen get blown away, that sentry=death, they go around them.
Xenos wont win on sheer numbers, at least not the 10:1 ratio here.
Terminators are capable of killing dozens of xenos before they are within melee range, which they can probably take out 3-4 more before being taken down by acid. They’d probably have a kill to death ratio over 30:1 Xenos would be destroyed by the superior tactics, long range weapons, and tech advantages of the Terminators. And their sensory devices are amazing, don’t know what you’re on about.
Taken from earlier in the thread.
“The T-800′s optical sensors can sample an extended range of visible frequencies, including infrared (which can allow it to see heated bodies in total darkness). This information is then displayed on a 40,000 bit digitized display. Concussion-proof lenses protect the T-800′s eyes, which are capable of moving independently. When using both eyes to track two different targets moving in different directions, depth perception is created artificially by creating a computer-generated off-angle ghost image. The T-800 is capable of motion tracking (very big advantage against xenos), search modes, facial identification and recognition and has extensive vision enhancement capabilities including long range “zoom” (the T-800 can snap-magnify an image by around x15), motion analysis and “night vision.” The T-800’s visual systems (at least) appear to be programmed in COBOL and 6502 assembly”
So, yeah, terminator sensors more than up to the task.
Holy fuck….I have nothing to say to you Tech. I can counter everything you just said because it is idiotic and wrong, but I will later because the sheer ignorance you have shown is staggering.
You haven’t proven me wrong. You just say it and expect us to believe you with no sources or proof and get angry like a child when someone points out the flaws in your argument.
How the fuck didn’t I provide proof????? Are you fucking retarded?? Post 476 had the interview with James fucking Cameron you idiot! It had links and quotes. You are by far the most frustrating person on this site. There are no flaws in my argument because the points I have made were backed by James Cameron.
“The Queen has an IQ of 175 though.”
I’d still like to know where that’d come from, where is the proof?
“Ammo depots were never stated to be in this match same as they not being allowed reinforcements.”
Yet you keep suggesting Praetorians should get in somehow. X never has put them in the match. The ammo thing is ambiguous, but he’s made pretty clear which xenos he wants in the match.
Quote:
“Xenomorphs:
10 Queen Xenomorphs
5 Predaliens
499,985Normal xenomorphs the ones seen on the movies”
Only ones in the movies. Not ones in games, and especially not using game mechanics to justify what they do.
“Explosive rounds will always be superior at killing organic targets because of something called over-penetration”
Overpenetration is when a bullet goes through its target and out of the other side, potentially going on to damage something or someone else.
Also, and this is just conjecture, but I’ve heard plasma would be great against organic beings (human beings as it may not be the same for a xeno based on different structure) because the extreme heat of a plasma round can cause great damage and simulate a “explosive round” due to causing water in the body to rapidly form steam, and that great expansion (Steam takes well over 1000 times the volume of liquid water) in the body causes extreme damage to any living organism with a large amount of water in it’s body. But like I said, conjecture.
” It also helps that the bullets are relatively small.”
A 10mm caseless would be much larger than most rifle rounds used in modern militaries. M16 uses 5.56 mm, m60s use 7.62mm, and a .50 cal is about 12.5 mm for comparison. And even though it’s ‘caseless’ the explosive section of it still makes up that volume.
“They mean anti-tank weaponry. Specifically since in the first AvP the M41A could not even damage the Praetorian. You had to either use the Smartgun, I think, the Sadar, the Minigun, or of course the Grenade Launcher.”
Sadar is the only anti-tank thing in the list. The smart gun uses the same 10mm caseless ammo as the pulse rifle. I can’t say much on the specific minigun they used in whatever game your pulling it from. And grenade launcher, well, I’ll just say this: If these are the weapons that could take out a Praetorian, that arguably makes T-800s tougher than them, as a T-800 took 3 grenades from a grenade launcher dead to the chest without any damage whatsoever
“Skynet has genius level intellect yet it lost to ragtag militia”
PIS plot induced stupidity and convenience. No one wants to see humans lose.
Also, Afghans won because of US support, giving them weapons and training to fight the proxy war, same with Vietnam having all the Chinese support it can handle to supply it with weapons and training to fight the proxy war with the US. Also, neither the US or Soviet Union went on full total warfare like they did against the Germans and Japanese during WW2. USA fought half hearted (declining support, no full force total warfare tactics) and the Soviets were facing a falling economy and international pressure, along with similar unwillingness to go full warfare WW2 style “Bomb everything until we are out of bombs”. Obviously, neither side wanted to go far enough for them to call the other side in and turn the proxy war into WW3 with nukes. Vietnam and Afghanistan did not face the full power of either military for various reasons, which in combination for actually being very smart themselves, gave them victory.
They are smarter then chimps and dolphins.
Proof. I’ll agree they show some signs of not being rocks, but if you’d have something that sets them above that I’d like to see it. Nothing I’ve seen has Xenos coming even close to machine intellegence.
“Last time I checked they were able to learn how to manipulate basic human technology”
“..and were able to think and coordinate their efforts and set traps”
Wolves, hyenas, and all sorts of pack animals do this. Ants and bees coordinate. I’m not calling them necessarily smart or intelligent because of it.
“They know their blood is corrosive and have used that to their advantage many times”
The same could be said of spiders, snakes, and other venomous creatures. That they are venomous and appear to know it and use it to their advantage.
“And to go back to learning how to manipulate technology if one has the patients and the knowledge of how to control them, namely control the queen control the hive”
You can mimic what someone does with tech and not know how it works or if your using it correctly. Just because the Queen from Aliens used an elevator after seeing Ripley did it doesn’t mean the Queen knew what it was doing. Rats, dogs, cats, apes are all capable of this, and maybe to a greater degree than xenos have shown (at least in the movies)
As for the second part about the Queen and the hive. Queen Ants and Queen Bees and various insects accomplish the same thing with no real intellect.
Yes they know what guns are.
Funny, as they don’t seem to take cover, or go behind anything to avoid it, or do some very basic things to avoid being shot. In Aliens they ran head on into fire from Sentries for a good chunk of time before figuring out that heading towards sentries=instant death. Their strategy against firearms is to send enough bodies until you reach the target or they run out of bullets.
Dogs and cats can be trained to do all sorts of tricks, call 911, use a toliet and manipulate basic human tech on a basic level.
“There is no animal in the entire animal kingdom that sets traps with bait in them.”
Must not have heard of Trap door spiders, Anglerfish, Snapping turtles, Venus flytraps and the several species of both animal and plants that set traps for their prey with and without lures. And they are not too smart.
So, those are my current thoughts about what’s going on. Mostly quoted Redrum. (Nothing personal, we just seem to see this thing very differently. It’s been a lively and sometimes heated debate, but nothing personal, FYI)”
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Have you heard of paragraphs? Please space these things out to make them readable. Big blocks of text and shit.
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“Sadar is the only anti-tank thing in the list. The smart gun uses the same 10mm caseless ammo as the pulse rifle. I can’t say much on the specific minigun they used in whatever game your pulling it from. And grenade launcher, well, I’ll just say this: If these are the weapons that could take out a Praetorian, that arguably makes T-800s tougher than them, as a T-800 took 3 grenades from a grenade launcher dead to the chest without any damage whatsoever”
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1. The M250 uses larger rounds then the M41. The M41 uses 10mmx24mm the M250 uses 10mmx28mm.
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2. The M250 uses more powerful Pulse Technology then the M41 thus has a larger battery pack to power it.
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3. The reason why it pierces through Praetorian armor is either
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A. Game Mechanics.
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B. Multiple rounds fired into the same place impacting 1 after another. The M250 has perfect accuracy and grouping due to being auto-aimed by on board AI. Same with the Minigun. Sheer round velocity will is what likely shatters through.
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4. I already said I cannot remember whether or not the Smartgun was effective. The only weapons I know for sure stopped the Praetorian was the Minigun and the SADAR.
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5. It takes more hits then 3 to take down the Praetorian. I believe its 5 or 6. But besides that according to the Technical manual that grenade is designed to go through 7cm of Titanium alloy.
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6. It has a higher muzzle velocity then any grenade launcher I can think of. For example the M79 Grenade Launcher has a muzzle velocity of 76m/s. The M41′s has a muzzle velocity of 400m/s higher then your common handgun thus giving it high penetration then your modern day grenade launcher.
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“PIS plot induced stupidity and convenience. No one wants to see humans lose.”
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Actually I explained exactly why they lost on the first page.
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“Proof. I’ll agree they show some signs of not being rocks, but if you’d have something that sets them above that I’d like to see it. Nothing I’ve seen has Xenos coming even close to machine intellegence.”
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The proof being they know what guns and explosives are and know what Predators are deep down in their DNA. Or how about them knowing how to manipulate elevators? Or them knowing humans cannot see in the dark thus cutting the power not just in the movies but the video games? Or how about them knowing to melt their way out of captivity via their acid blood. Or my favorite knowing what ammunition is and that humans would want that thus using it as a trap to lure 1 person away from the group to kill it? There are dozens of examples.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJU28roHiEU
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Here the Alien understands English
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjZ7Cb5WDLM
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Here them knowing what guns are and reacting accordingly
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=SksWfx_7_U8
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“Also, the Xeno in Alien was a baby. Everything it did was done using only a couple days of life experience. So, get me a two day old ANYTHING and try and make it use the toilet.”
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Actually Alien took place within the span of 20-23 hours.
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“The could have thrown stuff in front of it to waste ammo to do that. They didn’t know if the ammo was gone, or they would have kept going knowing there were only 10 bullets left in 1 gun. They didn’t know and tried going another way after like 50-60 of them got blown up. They keep charging head on into guys with full ammo. They are not smart about guns. They come out of cover, run head on into firearms, what else is there to say.”
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That’s not how the Turret works. The Turrets track via ultrasonic motion tracker meaning shit like rocks don’t fool it it has to be actively moving in a certain pattern, changes in ambient lighting, Lidar and infrared. However the beauty of these is that if you know that basic visual profile of you preferred target they can be downloaded directly into the guns AI and they will only target that particular target styling.
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“You say they charged the guns to waste ammo. Why lose all those troops wasting ammo, and then not take advantage of the fact you ran the sentries dry. They don’t even try to go up to them or anything. They try to get a new way to go around after losing all those xenos. That’s just tossing a couple of dozen troops to die for no reason. They just run them dry, but then go around them. Why not have gone around them in the first place then and avoid losing so many warriors?”
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They could not have known whether or not the Turret was dry and did not want to waste anymore soldiers checking when they could cut the power and go around which they did. Unfortunately for them there was only around 180-210 colonists on LV-426 and they probably killed a lot during their take over of the colony. They lost more soldiers taking on the Colonial Marines in the nuclear reactor. By the time of the end of the movie they only had a few left which you see since they did not swarm Ripley when she entered the hive. They rectoned this in the newest game coming out which will be the official direct sequel to Aliens.
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Both of you calm the fuck down. We got this shit back in order no need to fuck it back up.
“Both of you calm the fuck down. We got this shit back in order no need to fuck it back up”
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It’s real fucking hard when Tech literally ignores every ounce of proof that is shoved in his faced. Seriusly, look at Post 476 and tell me how someone could say I didn’t provide proof. Go ahead, look at it.
“Both of you calm the fuck down. We got this shit back in order no need to fuck it back up”
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It’s real fucking hard when Tech literally ignores every ounce of proof that is shoved in his faced. Seriously, look at Post 476 and tell me how someone could say I didn’t provide proof. Go ahead, look at it.
“It’s real fucking hard when Tech literally ignores every ounce of proof that is shoved in his faced. Seriusly, look at Post 476 and tell me how someone could say I didn’t provide proof. Go ahead, look at it.”
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Well if he is truly ignoring your evidence then its against the rules thus you should not bother debating with him since its an act in futility. But lets try and keep this civil. You provided proof for your argument as did I. Now if he tries to ignore said evidence in his next post then he is committing fallacies and thus will be ignored until he posts something of relevance
“Post 476 had the interview with James fucking Cameron you idiot! It had links and quotes.”
I take back to no sources and proof thing. When I made my initial search for the Starlog interview to read it from source, it didn’t turn up anything but the page itself on the search engine, so I thought it was a fake or circular reasoning. Looked a little deeper after your outpouring, and I found the interview. So, you are rightfully angry about that. My bad, I am sorry.
However, just because they are acting smart doesn’t mean they actually are smart, it could all be outpourings and extensions of basic animal instinct. Like army ants constructing bridges, or other animals showing such ‘smart’ behavior.
That’s why I used the Graboid example. They seemed like they were making smart tactical decisions, cutting radio communications, taking out car engines, things spec op agents would do to keep people isolated. However, it was revealed they did this only because of their instinct to attack warm things.
Thats the point I was making. I read the thing (again), and I admit, it all seems very impressive, and like I said, I don’t think they are rock hard stupid, and James Cameron was making a comparison, not actually saying the are just as smart as spec ops troops. Lots of people have made the comparison of ants acting like soldiers and as armies. It doesn’t mean they are as smart as human militaries. I like to think of them like the velociraptor. The whole ‘clever girl’ idea. They learned how to open doors and flank enemies without being considered ‘human-level intellect’. They are dangerous and shouldn’t be underestimated. They can be sneaky, but intellegent? I still haven’t seen it.
As for Redrum.
“Here the Alien understands English”
The newborn is not a Xeno. It has been mixed with Human DNA, to a high degree which could explain it’s heightened intellect.
“Here them knowing what guns are and reacting accordingly”
Because those Xenos had been mixed with Ripley’s DNA during the cloning process at the start of the movie. They are mutations just like Ripley is. (Why Ripley has acid blood and heightened abilities and the Queen later gives mammalian-style birth) similar gene splicing could give them increased intellegence over the non-hybrid xenos. This gene splicing from the cloning process went way, way beyond the normal Xenomorph horizontal gene sharing they do when they use a host.
Remember, in Resurrection, all the xenos were hybridized with Ripleys DNA to a degree, which could explain several things that batch of xenos did which other, pure bred xenos did not do.They are an outlier with a clear explanation to why they have behaviors not seen in other films. The DNA was messed with and are not the same creatures that the other Alien films had.
“Have you heard of paragraphs? Please space these things out to make them readable. Big blocks of text and shit.”
I’m sorry, I have these things all spaced out when I type them, but the post gets crunched down every time I post, and it frustrates me too cause it makes my post look shitty.
“That’s not how the Turret works. The Turrets track via ultrasonic motion tracker meaning shit like rocks don’t fool it it has to be actively moving in a certain pattern, changes in ambient lighting, Lidar and infrared. However the beauty of these is that if you know that basic visual profile of you preferred target they can be downloaded directly into the guns AI and they will only target that particular target styling.”
So, when they tested it using a empty barrel and the sentries blow it away, whats stopping the Xenos from doing a similar thing if they have such intellegence? It seems like it’ll shoot at anything that’s moving. So yes, a rock not moving wouldn’t do anything, but throw a deck plate at it, see what it does. Or even knock it over to disable it? Search for a way around after the first 15 had been shot and gotten no where doing it.
The M250 uses larger rounds then the M41. The M41 uses 10mmx24mm the M250 uses 10mmx28mm.
A) Game Mechanics
Which is why I
The M250 is the round it’s using the my understanding. It’s the M41 Pulse rifle and the M56 Smart gun using M250 10mm rounds.
Also of note from that Biomechanical Insects website, it talks about the Xenos eating and requiring nutrition.
“As oppose to the aliens in the first two movies which fed on food supplies that they could find and that were also suitable for human beings, the Runner ate his victims with ferocious appetite and ate almost each and every one of them. Many insects and some arachnids eat only living or freshly killed food and are carnivorous only.”
It talks specifically about them needing food, going way, way back to one of my first posts about the hive starving because there is no food for them, which now applies if we take the information on that page to be correct.
Both of you calm the fuck down.
I am being calm.
“Game Mechanics.”
I think this is why we should avoid using the video game versions of them, because then we could say things like a 18 year old woman can kill dozens of Xenos with her bare hands.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=07pPDEj-1jQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=115s
“The M41′s has a muzzle velocity of 400m/s higher then your common handgun thus giving it high penetration then your modern day grenade launcher.”
The info you seem to have cited from post 467 is for the 10 mm Auto round, not the grenade launcher device.
Again, I’m sorry I jumped the gun on the no source thing, My apologies to Reaper.
“I’m sorry, I have these things all spaced out when I type them, but the post gets crunched down every time I post, and it frustrates me too cause it makes my post look shitty.”
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This used to piss me off too. But if you notice, alot of us use = or – to separate our paragraphs since the comment box is allergic to paragraphs.
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” which now applies if we take the information on that page to be correct.”
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Well, since the Xenos are immune to any kind of poison or toxin, it’s safe to say that the Zombie flesh will do just fine as a food source.
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” I like to think of them like the velociraptor.”
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I think I can use this point of view to get us both on the same page. The raptor is a very very smart creature. But all it needs to do to survive is hunt, correct? This is why it’s intelligence is centered around hunting. I mean, we have no way of telling whether or not the raptors really were as smart as Spielberg made them out to be. But if they were then the intelligence they possess would only ever be applied to hunting. The Xenos are not made for hunting (for survival purposes), they were created for one thing only, to destroy entire planet’s worth of creatures, advanced or not. So, they may only have the intelligence of a velociraptor (which if you recall, Dr. Grant said they were smarter than dolphins, whales and primates. Which is what I was trying to prove for the Xenos in the first place.), but the way they use their intelligence is different. They use it to overcome advanced populations and destroy them.