Published on July 9, 2012, by admin - Posted in Duels 64
Suggested by JMT
Not what you think.
For this match, it’s a battle of wits between the Doctor (Dr Who) and The God-Emperor (Warhammer 40K).
Who would win?
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Well since the Doctor is broken in the smarts department, him.
And as far as cheating goes…
The Emperor’s Manliness plays for him and solo’s.
A difficult one, having not read the Doctor Who EU. I would assume the Emperor could just read the Docs mind though.
And THAT, is why additional rules should be placed.
1. No reading of minds
2. No time travel
3. No mashing the other guy when you lose
Hmm, tough call
Perhaps the GEOM can read The Doctor’s mind?
Make it Chess to the death, loser dies via electrocution unless they give up. I think the Doctor can protect his mind but not sure. The Doctor wins though I think, why? Because he can see the timeline, natural ability, Waters of Mars shows it morr directly. He’ll see the counter moves that may be used for any move he makes, Mind reading only works if you don’t have an opponent who can see it coming and use it to his advantage by thinking one move but playing another. Also, who would really go and read the Doctors mind?
Well, if everybody from W40K is as intelligent as Kharn, then I’d say the collective intelligence of that universe is that of your average carrot.
And this carrot is going up against one of the most intelligent characters in fiction, in a game that requires a good amount of thinking?
Yeah, I’m going with The Oncoming Storm for this one.
hmm he can see the timeline eh. nice makes me agree with hermit that characters like these 2 need more rules of engagement on this site for a duel.
unfortunately for doc GeoM was not a stupid fool like kharn, but is also one of the brightest minds in his verse. he still lacked in the wisdom department in my opinion.
anyway my knowledge on doc is very little since i only remember a little from what i read on him here on FP. so for now i hold my judgement to myself.
“but is also one of the brightest minds in his verse.”
Which still isn’t saying much.
Anyway, The Doctor has played a sort advanced Chess in one of the more recent episodes.
“Which still isn’t saying much.”
Negative, you are aware this is a universe that contains people like Tzeentch, the Deceiver, the Laughing God, Eldrad Ulthran, and the like? Hell, there are entire races/factions described as Magnificent Bastards.
Just because a number of Khornate followers and the Orks are dumb as bricks doesn’t mean everyone is.
“Anyway, The Doctor has played a sort advanced Chess in one of the more recent episodes.”
GEOM tangos with Tzeentch.
From the back story GEoM doesn’t really sound like that good of a thinker, his incompetence pretty much directly led to the Horus Heresy.
I’m going with The Doctor on this one.
Since I always forget to do this, ground rules.
1. No mind reading
2. Best of 5 wins
3. 11th Doctor
“Well, if everybody from W40K is as intelligent as Kharn, then I’d say the collective intelligence of that universe is that of your average carrot.”
I just found this to be funny.
Anyways, isn’t the Doctor some sort of Dr. Doom level genius? If so, GEoM will likely be given the dunce cap on this one.
“3. 11th Doctor”
Then he loses. He’d win if it was the10th Doctor though.
Matt Smith just doesn’t look very smart, whereas David Tennant looks very smart xD – Like that has a bearing on the match?
Having no real knowledge of the GeoM I’d probably back the Doctor at this juncture.
After David Matt is trying to fill some big shoes but he’s done good, David is still my favorite. Eleven has won death chess, and he pulled off the whole get the robot killed thing in day of the moon. Considering fixed point of time and all and everyone thinks he really died thats clever
Sadly as it turned to Matt, things kept getting in the way, and indeed still do. I’ve only seen a very select few of Matt’s first season as the Doctor, and again only when they first aired so I don’t know much of him. I do remember not liking him at first, but he grew on me a little. So hopefully I can find them somewhere to watch at some point.
I think Tom Baker is still (marginally) my favorite – probably because he was the first Doctor I saw (my mother has always been a huge fan so I’ve always watched it in some fashion xD) I still love Pertwee aswell, he’s like the grandad I always wished for xD. But Tennant is definitely my favorite new Doctor, though I liked the tough as, battle weary Eccleston.
Not gonna lie, IB with the Doc until further notice.
Determination is the one thing that’s the best-known means when the best-known fights and wars are won, after all, and the Doctor is nothing if not one of the best known examples of a Determinator anyone ever hears of!(even the very best-known, unless further notice comes by, I’m giving the benefit of the doubt that they’re out there!)
About reading the mind, just how intelligent is the Doctor? How intelligent is the God Emperor? If anyone has ever read about Amadeus Cho, there was a villain who could read minds, and Cho set up his attack using equations, so while the villain could read Cho’s mind, he didn’t understand any of it.
The doctors intelligence depends on the plot and how much the writer needs to abuse it. The emperor is a constant in raw intellect but it is often influenced by the emotional strain that 38000 years, watching loved ones and humanity as a whole, have put on him damper on him in situations and thus lead to problems
Let’s not forget that brilliant trap The Doctor set up for The Order of the Headless.
The Doctor is fairly consistent intellect wise if an episode uses the companions intellect it’s more showing the Doctor isn’t a,perfect godlike being. Thats the point of companions they remind the Doctor of why he is who he is, they keep his Time Lord Victorious the universe is my bitch attitude at bay. Each Doctors personality relates to the circumstances of his regeneration and his life. Nine died wanting to do so many things, which is why Ten,wanted to keep,living, so he could do them. Ten is arguably the most human of the Doctors, and his companions kept falling in love with him (didn’t help he based friend interaction on Roses flirtatious attitude.) Which is why 11 shows off his quirky alien side, because he doesn’t want to make that mistake, not that it helped with Amy. Point is he isn’t a,perfect godlike being, but because of that he’s as brilliant as he is. He’ll look out of the box, which is why he’s a better man than the timelords.
Most other Time Lords, you mean, right?
He also ran into the symbolic equivalent of the creation of the universe, kind of like he were the Big-G man in a way to boot, right?
Also, Six is said to have common grounds shared alongside one of the guys I’d back in any fight, since he predated said guy in particular, Nine…pretty much sounded like the messed-up scheme that I pretty much was from Last November through Last April, ad nauseum and then some, Ten…do we even need to explain how much of a Badass Ten really was?
Erm, pretty sure this game is insta-win for GEoM – he can’t mindread but he can still future-read right? What’s to stop him from simply forseeing what moves the Doctor will make? Probably best to remove that ability as well.
Anyway… Just an FYI, Kharn ain’t stupid – don’t really know where you got that one from. Just ‘cos he’s a bloodthirsty berserker doesn’t mean he’s an idiot. Don’t forget, he’s the Avatar of Khorne – the God of tactical and military skill (not just rage). Before his ascension, he was perhaps the wisest of the World Eaters – acting as a “cool head” to his lord Angron. If you had actually read up on him, or read any of the books about him, you’d know that, instead of simply insulting him by assuming he’s an idiot. It’s funny because this exact same assumption comes up in Galaxy of Flames: “Lord Angron,” said Eidolon reasonably, “you speak out of turn-”
“Hold your tongue in the presence of your betters,” snarled Angron. “I know what you Emperor’s Children think of us, but you mistake our directness for stupidity. Speak to me again without my consent and I will kill you.”
Now, onto the debate. As for feats, I’m not too confident on the Doctor – I’ve read one or two books from the series and I’m a pretty avid watcher of the TV series (not sure of the canon policy for DW), but apart from that I’m not too well versed in his skills. However, from what I have observed of him, I believe the GEoM can take him on. After all, the GE did play hide-and-seek-mindfuck with beings who are suggested to be omnipotent – one of them – (Tzeentch) – who is the god of cunning, trickery and justasplanned (e.g. the majority of his plans take millennia or longer to fully play out as a starter) – and is stated to be almost omniscient (getting closer all the time thanks to the help of both Karis Fateweaver and P’tarix and Xirat’p). And, arguably, he won against them (although whether he has truly won the Great Game against the Gods is still under major debate – the Chaos Gods may have won in the long term unless the Emperor has an ace up his sleeve – we won’t really know until the Horus Heresy series starts to near its end. Interestingly, it is implied that he does indeed have a plan thanks to the efforts of Kai Zulane at the end of The Outcast Dead).
What we do know is that out of all the beings in the Warhammer Universe, he was considered the greatest single threat to the Chaos Gods’ plans and we do know he at least managed to disrupt their plans to a reasonably large degree – we also know he had a plan to take them on. Interestingly, in the Outcast Dead, the Emperor has a similar dilemma in defeating his son, Horus (the avatar of the Chaos Gods), the ensuing conflict being shown by the Emperor (In Kai Zulane’s mind) in the form of a chess game which he then explains to the Astropath (Kai).
(Following the Emperor beating an incredibly surprised Zulane who had initially believed his victory was inevitable):
“Do we play again?” asked Kai, reaching for the pieces lost in the game.
The figure reached over and took hold of Kai’s wrist. The grip was firm, unyielding, and Kai sensed strength that could crush his bones in an instant.
“No, this is a game that can only be played once.”
“Then why is the board ready to play again?” asked Kai, seeing that all the pieces were restored to their starting positions without him having touched them.
“Because there is another opponent that I must face, one who knows every gambit, every subtlety, every endgame. I know this, because I taught him.”
“Can you defeat him?” asked Kai with a mounting sense of unease as a shadow moved on the edges of the oasis.
“I do not know,” admitted the figure. “I cannot yet see the outcome of our meeting.” The robed figure looked down onto the board, and Kai saw the pieces had moved once more, into a convoluted arrangement that defied interpretation. He looked up and saw his opponent clearly for the first time, seeing the burden of an entire civilisation resting upon his broad shoulders.
“How can I be of service?” asked Kai.
“You can go back, Kai.You can go back to the waking world and bring me the warning Sarashina gave you.”
“I’m afraid to go back [...] I think I might die if I do.”
“I fear that you will,” agreed the figure.
“You’re asking me to sacrifice myself for you?”
“No sacrifice is too great for the scalp of the enemy Emperor,” said the figure.
The GEoM wasn’t exactly incompetent – he did bring the Techno-Barbarians from being oppressed by both alien overlords and almost infinitely powerful Cognoscynths (to give just two examples) to being the dominant race in the Milky Way. Don’t forget that while he was leading this administrative and tactical nightmare he was also in the midst of (as just a few examples) 1) creating the Primarchs 2) creating the Space Marines 3) Trying to break into and take control of the Eldar Webway 4) Trying to eradicate religion (note that points 3 and 4 were also his opening moves to defeat the Chaos Gods completely). It was hardly his incompetence that led to the Horus Heresy – if anything, it was because he was too inhuman – he forgot the human side of his work, and got too involved in the “Greater Good” of saving humanity, leaving his children along the wayside. Paradoxically, he was also at times blinded by the love he held for his creations. The Horus Heresy was due to the impressive scheming of the Gods as well as his own sons’ insecurities – he dealt with it surprisingly well considering that for a large part of the Horus Heresy he was also single-handedly holding off a Daemonic invasion (led by the greatest agents of the Gods) of all of Terra from his basement, was being mind-clouded by Tzeentch himself and was also powering the Astronomicon (a “Galaxy-wide” – around 50,000 light years – beacon of pure psychic might). He has also shaped the future of the human race along the path he desires by with pure justasplanned – the pwning of the Void Dragon (the most powerful of beings who are stated to be absolute gods of the material plane) with a metal sword and lance, subsequent imprisoning of said God on Mars (Baring in mind this was in the early-medieval/earlier era – so fuck knows how he managed that one), ending in the Dragon’s manipulation of the people of Mars into achieving his own goals which is only then revealed to be the justasplanned of the GEoM who then manipulates both into the Treaty of Mars – just as he intended to, is a good example of this.
It’s also implied he manipulated humanity into the Golden Age of Technology (which only ended thanks to the birth of Slaanesh), at which time the GEoM decided to take control of humanity in a more direct fashion due to the instability of the warp thanks to the Pleasure God’s birth-scream.
Not saying the Doctor is doomed or anything – don’t know enough feats for him to judge – I mean, he has saved the universe a few times, right? Have to wonder how much some of those Deus Ex Machina/PIS series endings have to do with his wits though…
Lol I was waiting for the 40k fanboys . Myself included. Im not going to lie I think it will be a very close game, when I first read this I tought it was combat and I was like, “nubs GEOM stomps ><". But the fact that it is only wits it will be close. GEOM has lived technically for 48,000 years as the star child and roughly 41,000 years as a corporeal man. because he didn't die right away after horus mortally wounded him, he survived for a couple thousand more years I think.
My personal opinion is that it would be a draw, because the emperor knows every possible move and any of its outcomes without mind reading and I assume the Dr, is smart enough to figure stuff out on the fly, so I think it will come down to king vs king on the board.
I thought the same thing as sentry, that this was just combat.. then I reread it and I was like “Shit… things are about to get complicated”.
Yeah, i have a feeling this would be a draw as well. They’d each make like 1 move, then simultaneously say “damn, stalemate… new game?”
on the subject of Tzeentch and chess…
@I would suggest a multi dimensional chess board, which albeit much harder for humans of the average variety to even play on. seeing as how more dimensions would provide more variables, which would put both the Doctor and the Emperor under a possibly higher level of stress. If you`re unsure what I’m talking about, here`s a link:
“From the back story GEoM doesn’t really sound like that good of a thinker, his incompetence pretty much directly led to the Horus Heresy.”
The whole reason the hersey ever happened(Apart from GW wanting an awesome backstory) was because the emperor left the crusade to work on the elder webway (Getting into it that is) so that humanity didn’t have to deal with the fuckery of deamons and the like, saddly Horus had some HUGE daddy issues, which a chaplain on the religious nuts (Word bearers) used to convice him that the emperor was going against the imperial truth (That there are no gods ect.) which essentially means Horus now thought that the emperor was going o become a god. So of course the natural solution to this was for horus to become a deamon prince and wage civil war on the imperium he had helped to build. The GEoM didn’t for see this for some odd reason (Poor fore thought right there, I admit) because his mind was on other things, like destroying other races and the like, and of course, getting into that webway of the eldars.(Magnus was to sit on the golden thrown after the emperor was finished with the webway, in order to keep it open, so at some point the emperor would have rejoined the crusade).
God Emperor of Mankind is smart enough to makes Reed Richards looks like bricks in terms of intelligence
As awesome as the God Emperor is … the Doctor gets my vote here.
Reading the future in 40k only gets you possibilities and probabilities, it doesn’t get you certainties.
Should have been Go, not chess.
@Kytheros unless you are really good, then you pretty much know what will happen.
The Emperor is good enough to outsmart the guys who are really good. (Lords of Change)
Will have to vote for him. (naturally) Not the guy who doesn’t appear to have knowledge of every foe he encounters and has a plan for.
“Yeah, i have a feeling this would be a draw as well. They’d each make like 1 move, then simultaneously say “damn, stalemate… new game?””
Hahaha, too true!
the doctor should call on a very old friend and student whos name is creed
still the doctor is part of the race that wrote the laws of physics and can outsmart almost anyone he meat’s this has include the slience who call them slevs the sentals of history twice,dalxs.famliy of blood.time lords
Doctor probably wins. More feats in the intelligence department.
“God Emperor of Mankind is smart enough to makes Reed Richards looks like bricks in terms of intelligence”
Oh and yeah, bullshit right here. Reed has done more shit than GEOM has ever done.
I feel like an intruder, but why such frequencies in absences? T_T’
You never write back via P.Ms at the topia.
“God Emperor of Mankind is smart enough to makes Reed Richards looks like bricks in terms of intelligence”
WH40k fans are so cute when they’re illiterate and wanking.
all fanboys are
And then The Doc uses his sonic screwdriver with some new unheard of ability that won’t be shown ever again.
““God Emperor of Mankind is smart enough to makes Reed Richards looks like bricks in terms of intelligence”
WH40k fans are so cute when they’re illiterate and wanking.”
His experiments can inadvertently destroy a neighboring universe. Cuz you know, SCIENCE!
Shit that is an impressive feat of reeds. Someone should bring that up in marvel vs. 40k or nintendo or something.
Nobody wins. I love both of these universes and was really excited to see this matchup until I saw it was a game of chess. TGIOM has a mind greater than every computer on the planet and could calculate every move possible from the start and I’lI would wager that the Doc can too. This match would last five minutes and have five stalemates.
The Big E wins. He’s so powerfull even the chaos gods fear him.
And he wins over the doc in every other deparment. Phisicly superior, far cooler and from a far cooler universe to boot.
Dr. Who is so campy and silly watching it makes my mind bleed.
The Doctor literally perceives all possible timelines at once (everything that is, was, and ever could be). Quote from Parting of the Ways:
ROSE (Bad Wolf)
I can see everything. All that is… all that was… all that ever could be.
That’s what I see. All the time. And doesn’t it drive you mad?
I knew there was a quote.
More evidence if it’s needed, in Waters of Mars he see’s the Timeline change. So with two people who see every possible outcome and are able to literally see the last moves play out….how can you have a winner. They’ll both be constantly shifting their strategies to try and gain the upperhand. The only way to truly win would be for your opponent to just keel over dead, which won’t happen anytime soon for either of these guys.
Unless it’s a fixed moment where the Doctor wins or loses then anything can happen. They say to be good at chess you have to be two moves ahead both these guys are able to perceive millions of years ahead from my understanding.
Any game of wits is going to end up stalemating
Chess: 1 turn stalemate
Janken(Rock-Paper-Scissors): “okay, he’s going to play rock so i’ll play paper, but he’ll play scissors so I’ll play rock so he’ll play paper…etc, etc, ad nauseum”
20 Questions: “Ok, i got one” “Are you Batman?” “Damn! Your turn” “Alright” “Are you Spiderman?” “Well bollocks…”
It would also probably end like: “Seems we’re even.. again…”
“So what do you want to do now?”
“I don’t know. I’ve got some TIME to kill before I head on home, though”
“HAH! I see what you did there!”
“Of course you do.”
“I know, lets grab some brewskies, then head to Cadia. I want to show you this one fellow loyal to me, he’s quite the tactical genius.”
“Is he the one with those tanks that come out of mailboxes?”
“Yeah, among other pranks.”
“Sure, but let’s take my ride, it’ll get us there in no time.”
Not every game of wits would stalemate, I don’t think.
Definitely any game that’s ‘solvable’ would, but games with some element of randomness, or those that aren’t solvable from the beginning might not.
If the God Emperor could read the Doctors mind, he’d see every possibility… so it’d drag on for a while, and since from what I’m reading the Doctor is smarter than the Emperor, he’d win, after a long battle…
By the Way, anybody else having problems w/ gravatars?
I think there is a fair chance that if the emperor tried to read the doctors mind, his brain would implode
Whoever is white wins.
But since it’s out of four, if they alternate then it’s a draw…
I would think the God Emperor wins though because he’s always playing chess at a 3-D galaxy wide scale (4-D for weird magic realms??) with real lives at stake..
Although I admit I don’t know that much about either side.
The ‘first move advantage’ is a theoretical advantage of initiative, but it does not mandate that ‘white wins’. It is not even proven.
Chess has not been solved, though it is solvable in theory.
Logic would indicate that each would have an equal number of games as white as black, on the possibility that color does actually provide an advantage.
At any rate, since chess is solvable, assuming an equal number of games played as each side, this match is a draw assuming that the Emperor can solve chess (but since he can see future possibilities and probabilities, that’s probably almost as good, but not quite), if he can’t, the Doctor wins.
At any rate, I’d put the Doctor at being a better chessplayer than the Emperor.
“I would think the God Emperor wins though because he’s always playing chess at a 3-D galaxy wide scale (4-D for weird magic realms??) with real lives at stake..
Although I admit I don’t know that much about either side.”
He’s not actually playing chess, that’s merely a representation of what’s going on that the observer can understand (ie, something that the reader can understand).
If I said that while I’m hoping the Doc wins this as fairly as possible, but will prepare my body if the Emperor of the Imperium takes the trophy instead, will you believe me to be telling the truth, true or false?
So the GEOM is superintelligent and can read the future/minds, and he’s playing vs. The Doctor from Doctor Who, which is possibly the most overrated (and wanked) thing in the history of uninteresting goobledygook( OOH! EDGY!). Yeah I’d still have to say draw, even I respect the Doctor to a point.
This matchup is like saying who would win in a drinking contest: 100 Space Wolves vs 100 Dwarves: They’ll go drink for drink, get PHENOMENALLY drunk, then you have 200 drunken nutters who have earned each others mutual respect, and decided that it would be a GREAT idea to take a joyride to the nearest source of MORE booze, and maybe some bitches, stopping along the way to take a MASSIVE piss break, preferably in their enemies’ drinking water/on their enemies.
TL:DR: Draw, Followed by Brofist of epic proportions, followed by pranking of fools.
Kytheros is correct, White DOES have an advantage, and not an insignificant one, but this doesn’t guarantee a win. Black still has a good chance of winning (if you look at Chess in terms of percentages).
On to the match. I’ve always been curious. I think the Emperor is flat-out stupid. Just dumb. The way he treated some of his sons was just comical. For instance, he abandoned Angron’s closest friends to die. Amazingly, the dumbass Emperor didn’t see how this could create resentment in his son. His treatment of Lorgar was even worse. He bombarded Lorgar’s home planet, causing countless deaths. Then the Emperor forced Lorgar’s legion to bow before him, and called Lorgar a complete failure. ALL it would have taken was a calm, father-to-son explanation of how the Emperor didn’t want Lorgar spending time building temples, and how he should spend this time spreading Imperial doctrine.
It’s hilarious how he treats half of his sons like complete shit, and then is surprised when they turn on him.
Considering the fact that they were created to be as close to perfect as possible it isn’t very suprising. He assumed they would use the intelligence that he supplied them with (which was incredible as Corax straight out of the pod understood the concept and mathematics behind gravity and artifical atmospheres ). He himself had wandered for 38000 years and never fallen to chaos or turned out as they did (well that last part is debateable) and as such he expected them to understand to.
Also the ability to handle people and your mathematical abillities are not connected in any form of way so such arguments are invaild anyway.
That is kinda true. Blowing up your son’s favorite city (and sending the Primarch he hates the most to do it) and humilating said son and his entire legion in front of said hated brother Primarch doesn’t exactly make for good father son relationships. The fact that said son revered the Emperor as his god and was doing everything to please him didn’t help either.
And he flat out kidnapped a number of the Primarchs. When he couldn’t defeat Russ fairly, he sucker punched him and took him off fenris. After Angron refused to abandon his army, he teleported him off the planet, leaving them behind.
Horus was notably the only person that was ever halfway decent to most of the Primarchs that went traitor, so its little surprise they rebelled with him.
I don’t think the God Emperor is stupid, just very inhuman and distant from human relationships. I’m guessing he made those sacrifices for a reason and it would have ultimately helped his goals, but I guess he miscalculated by having too much faith in his sons(?).
But since the God Emperor has total control over his pieces in chess, I don’t think he can ever really fail, assuming he is a mathematical super genius.
If White truly does have an advantage, then I’m not surprised if either side can take the advantage to its full extent (checkmate).
But if the White’s advantage is only psychological, then the God Emperor may have a better chance at winning with Black, since I don’t think he can really be intimidated. The Doctor on the other hand seems more human and more susceptible to this psychological disadvantage.
I believe the God Emperor also has more years (many more?)of experience on his side which would help harden him.
Though, the percentages of winning because of psychological reasons are probably minuscule since I guess it’s too late to make this 100-1000 matches (so the minor advantages can actually be seen).
the Doctor has never bean defeated in more than 700 years so it would be him that wins although I know nothing of the God Emperor the Time Lord is unbeatable though he would make it look more difficult than it actually was because he would not want to belittle his opponant in a game of chess…now if there were innocent lives at risk then the Doctor would take no prisoners
The GEOM uses his mind to plot the course of the entirety of Humanity, and usually does very well in keeping the imperium alive. Therefore I do not think that the oncoming storm has much of a chance, when it took him a long time just to figure out how not to die on a beach.
Doctor never defeated in 700 years?
Not sure how old #11 is…as #6 was 900…but remember that #4 got owned by Morbius in a mental duel. Psychically, the Doctor is capable, but not that strong. He has been dominated by Morbius, Suhtek and others.
As the Doctor is (generally) a pacifist, and both he and the Emperor are such highly evolved entities, I can only imagine this diel taking the form of a debate, the kind of verbal sparring that took place between Tom Baker’s Doctor and Davros.
As to who wins, I think there wouldn’t really be a clear ‘winner’, rather, both would leave from the discussion with broader minds. It may mean war though, for others, if the Emperor did not agree with the Doctor’s ideals. Actually, that is more what I imagine; the Doctor trying to stay the Emperor’s hand in crushing everything in his Great Crusade.
When Donna Noble absorbed part of the doctors consciousness, her mind threatened to ‘burn up’. The mind of a time lord is so vast, so impossibly complex that Emperor would suffer the same fate. true, he could see time as well, but he couldn’t comprehend it as the Doctor does, he couldn’t the past, he couldn’t see everything that could be, but the Doctor can. The game of chess would end when the Emperor dies, I don’t think he’s immortal, but Time Lords are immortal if nothing comes along to kill them.
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