Suggested by EnigmaJ
Before any humans discover the planet, a Space Jockey ship crashes onto Pandora, releasing its cargo of face huggers and Xenomorph Warriors.
Do the Aliens manage to completely take control of the planet or is the environment too hostile?
Xenomorphs ftw
xenomorphs
I know the xenomorphs are badass and specifically designed to kill.
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But I belive that the Na’vi have tha advantage of environment and the fact that they can fly.
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I’m going with the Na’vi on this one.
Xenos
Just how many Xenos are we talking about.
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And depending on where they land, it could mean victory or defeat.
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Crashing near a large village of Na’Vi or near a hunting party and the Xenos would be arrowed to death before they can do anything significant.
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Crash somewhere farther away, and undetected, and the Xenos will have a chance to adapt to the harsh environment.
The xenos don’t stand a chance. I
“But I belive that the Na’vi have tha advantage of environment and the fact that they can fly.”
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Xenos born of flying creatures can fly.
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“Crashing near a large village of Na’Vi or near a hunting party and the Xenos would be arrowed to death before they can do anything significant.”
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While the face huggers are rather single minded, they are small enough to probably not register as a serious threat until it’s way too late. The warriors are faster than the Na’vi, armored heavily enough to not go down easily, and are capable of dishing out more damage than a Thanatar. They are extremely intelligent, relying on stealth and agility to close in on their target, and durable enough to take some real nasty hits before going down. These things are DANGEROUS, and if released on Pandora, there is no hope. I dread to imagine the results of xenomorphs born from these alien monsters.
Na’vi….judging by they were still living when humans finally arrived…
all things considering, they are bound to get a few, and honestly that would require knowledge of what a na’vi bred xeno would look like and be like. for example, the xeno’s we know are spawned from humans. na’vi are nearly double our size, and with that being the majority populatable enemy, the xenos will use them to breed. would this result in a xeno twice the size of the human bred? if were talking a feild of queen sized xenos lumbering around, i think its a whole different fight
Xenos rapestomp.
I foresee an incredibly grisly end for the Na’vi… yay!
Well if this isn’t a nightmare factory, like Hac said they would in theory be double the human bred ones, but they would likely also be able to connect to the planet and have enhanced durability skeleton wise. Worse yet, Xenobred of any animal, all the predator creatures for instance…..the Na’vi are so fucked
And they thought the humans were bad in the movie….
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Xenos are going to likely win as I don’t think the Na’Vi have the ability to damage their carapaces at all.
Xenostomp.
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@Soldier’s Shadow
Mind looking at the bricks of C4 shield feat I posted in Sephiroth vs Dresden
“They are extremely intelligent, relying on stealth and agility to close in on their target, and durable enough to take some real nasty hits before going down.”
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That is the very definition of a Na’vi warrior
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Also the Na’vi have the advantage of organization
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And of course bows and arrows giving them the distance advantage
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And by environment advantage I mean they know the forest, the xenos do not.
Hermit brings up a good point … just how many xenos ( face huggers and warriors ) are we talking about and where have they crashed ? The Na’vi will most likely be aware of the crash no matter where it is due to their attachment with the world … Also the size difference is a big factor … Id think most the predatory creatures on Pandora would be a bit big for the face hugger to attach itself with out just getting bit in two ( with serious damage to the creature of course ) … As for damaging the Xenos exoskeleton … If the Na’vis arrows can damage the ballistic glass on the humans ships , Im sure the Xenos wont be a problem
Well we don’t really know the stats on the ballistic glass plus we don’t know how much force the ship windows were hit with. The Amp suit windows seemed to be too much as I recall.
I would suggest that in order for this debate to expand, maybe EnigmaJ should present a more elaborate scenario
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Would you agree?
Agree with CC … And I dont recall about the AMP suits but the Scorpion Gunships didnt fair so well during the final battle … I remember a few going down with arrows through the pilot
Just saying the glass may have been bought on the cheap
The Na’vi, dangerous? Preposterous! Balderdash! Poppycock!
Xenos breeding with that giant dragon-bird that Jake uses for the final fight….
What Hermit said, hell just the regular dragon birds
OK … with some research I found a little info on the exoskeleton
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“The Xenomorph Warrior is equipped to be the perfect killing machine. It dons an exoskeleton much like that of a lobster, impenetrable to everything but the most powerful human firearms. (12-gauge shotguns, Pulse Rifles, and stanchion launchers are quite effective).”
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While like Guardian said , the glass might have been bought on the cheap ( i laughed at that lol ) … Most ballistic glass can stop a 12 gauge , so if the Na’vi arrows are going through it , either they went really cheap or due to the size and speed of the the Na’vi arrows , its rendered useless … Also … Average size of most Xenos is about 7ft tall … The Na’vi arrows are almost as long … The one thing id worry about is if an “implanting” does happen … would the offspring have the ability to “communicate” with Pandora
@Hermit:
When you said Jake, I thought of this Jake.
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img.poptower.com/pic-34319/jake-the-dog-adventure-time.jpg?d=600
I supposed I’ll set the initial number of Xenomorph Warriors to “a couple” and the number of facehuggers to “several dozen” for now since everyone seems to be for the aliens.
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Also, I don’t think this fight will necessarily devolve to “Xenomorphs vs Na’vi”. If I’m not mistaken, the Na’vi asked Eywa, the “collective consciousness of the planet”, for help against the humans in the Avatar Film, and it came through by turning the wildlife against them. Keep that in mind.
Im still leaning towards Pandora … especially now with so few Xenos … Like i said earlier … the face huggers will have a hard times latching onto most the creatures … hell even the viperwolves will give them a fight … with jaws that can crush bone or even stones and can sense prey upto 8 km away according to Camerons Pandora site … their smarter then the primate level intelligence xenos … know the terrain and hunt in packs
@ EnigmaJ
No, it won’t.
But for now we’re simplifying this match into a Na’Vi vs Xenos because the Na’Vi are the closest things we have to human intelligence in this fight.
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“I supposed I’ll set the initial number of Xenomorph Warriors to “a couple” and the number of facehuggers to “several dozen” for now since everyone seems to be for the aliens.”
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If that ship crash-lands anywhere near a Na’Vi village, they are going to spend five to fifteen minutes killing blue cat aliens (assuming the Xenos can climb quickly enough) before the village gets over the initial shock and fights back.
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If that ship crash lands somewhere where there is a herd of highly armoured rhinoceros creatures.
I don’t know, but gut instict tells me the Xenos will trigger a stampede.
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If that ship crash lands near a herd of the horse creatures, expect Pandora dead.
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@ Enigma
Just where is this ship landing?
@Skalkorik13
I guess Na’Vi may be able to kill some Xeno’s then. Thing is Na’vi have carbon fiber or,whatever they said, reinforced bones so the Xena’vi may have reinforced Exoskeletons, thats not getting to the animals though.
I have the image of a Xeno last shadow with Xena’vi riders
@Guardian
True … but like i said … most the predatory creatures will just bite the face huggers in half … although with the side effect being most likely death but will still happen … and will the face huggers even be able to latch on to them being that theyre so big ( creatures that is ) … unless they get lucky and get a viperwolf or 2 … I foresee a few Na’vi going down quickly until they get their wits set … then the “couple” warriors will be gone and the rest is seeing what damage the face huggers do and what they have possibly impregnated
sorry for double …. but :
“I have the image of a Xeno last shadow with Xena’vi riders”
… that would be fkn scary lol
@EnigmaJ
“I supposed I’ll set the initial number of Xenomorph Warriors to “a couple” ”
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Do you mean several…? A couple is only 2….
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@Skalkorik
“Like i said earlier … the face huggers will have a hard times latching onto most the creatures”
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What about the face hugger from Prometheus?
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LAi6hwLHqU
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lol (Not entirely sure if I’m joking or not… guess we’ll find out…)
“all things considering, they are bound to get a few, and honestly that would require knowledge of what a na’vi bred xeno would look like and be like. for example, the xeno’s we know are spawned from humans. na’vi are nearly double our size, and with that being the majority populatable enemy, the xenos will use them to breed. would this result in a xeno twice the size of the human bred? if were talking a feild of queen sized xenos lumbering around, i think its a whole different fight”
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Caiman bred Xenos are tyrannosaur sized. Python bred Xenos are over twenty feet long. Rhino bred Xenos are as tall as a bad despite being four legged and armored to hell and back. A Navi bred Xeno would thus very likely be queen sized and nasty. A queen from a na’vi would be even more terrifying.
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“That is the very definition of a Na’vi warrior”
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They are better at it than Na’vi. Because they can do it even while in large groups, which the Na’vi have never displayed.
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“Also the Na’vi have the advantage of organization”
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As do the Xenomorphs.
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“And of course bows and arrows giving them the distance advantage”
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It’s funny, because in the same scenario involving humans, a xeno infestation on Earth which is not quickly stamped out results in total domination of the xenomorph race over humans in short order. Humans which also have long range weapons, and superior ones at that. The Na’vi bows and arrows will be nigh useless against Na’vi born xenomorphs, acting only, at best, to cause acid spouts.
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“And by environment advantage I mean they know the forest, the xenos do not.”
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In every setting we’ve seen with the xenomorphs, it was always on human turf outside of the first AvP movie. Always a place the humans called home. This did not alter things too greatly in their favor, still resulting in virtually no survivors even if there’s just one xenomorph. Where as every encounter with aliens on their own turf save one that I can think of has ended in a loss for the invaders. Once a hive is established, nothing short of nuking them is going to get them out.
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“Most ballistic glass can stop a 12 gauge”
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While I don’t understand the mechanics of how ballistic glass stops bullets, the arrows may simply be too large for the glass to be effective against. Remember not all armoring types are effective against all weapons. You do not receive equal protection against all forms of attack across the board. It’s all about the kind of energy and how its applied.
Then it comes to what the Xena’vi will be like, then again has anything tried biting the facehuggers before?
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Someon needs to.draw a Xena’vi with xeno last shadow mount that would be awesome to see
“Like i said earlier … the face huggers will have a hard times latching onto most the creatures”
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I don’t see why… In what manner do you mean? I can’t conceive of any reason they would have a difficult time. Just get a grip and shove the pipe in. Knocks the target out flat and impregnates.
Also something else to note, most life on Pandora is glow in the dark or bright colored, the Xenos aren’t, they can blend with the foliage and the Na’vi are lit up like neon signs.
I thought of something, whats stopping Xena’vi from being able to make facehugger eggs or imprrgnate like the Pedalien could? It them becomes attack rape repeat
Im guessing if a hand thrown spear from a Predator can pierce the exoskeleton of a Xeno … the Na’vi arrows will have a better chance … As for something trying to bite a face hugger … no ive never seen anything do this , but im assuming it would be animal instict to bite and strike at anything trying to attach itself to their face … It does come down to if a face hugger get a hold of a Na’vi , because im not seeing the couple of warriors lasting long even if we up that number a bit … It would come down to the hybrids
3.bp.blogspot.com/-XrL7qPZqYvs/TlUJd60hSyI/AAAAAAAABUs/8vF-yKQDUxI/s1600/hybrid.jpg
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From a Caiman. I dread to imagine what a Thanatar would produce.
“I don’t see why… In what manner do you mean? I can’t conceive of any reason they would have a difficult time. Just get a grip and shove the pipe in. Knocks the target out flat and impregnates.”
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Im thinking because most the creatures are so large … thier mouths are bigger then the face hugger… the face huggers would get crunched … unless of course its that face hugger from Prometheus lol
this would make an awesome movie, but it probably wont be made. I don’t know who would win. it will be close but I think it will go to the Navi. because they would out number, can fly, and have home field advantage. even with all those advantages it would still be close.
“Do you mean several…? A couple is only 2….”
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A could mean “several”, but yeah, sure, let’s go with “several”.
Facehuggers alone subdue a few wild animals and the first hunting party. From there I’m going team Xeno in any fight.
“Caiman bred Xenos are tyrannosaur sized. Python bred Xenos are over twenty feet long. Rhino bred Xenos are as tall as a bad despite being four legged and armored to hell and back. A Navi bred Xeno would thus very likely be queen sized and nasty. A queen from a na’vi would be even more terrifying.”
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Where did you get that from? Serious curiosity because I’ve never encountered those types. Also queens are the same no matter what they come from, they are pure strain once they transform into a queen.
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“It’s funny, because in the same scenario involving humans, a xeno infestation on Earth which is not quickly stamped out results in total domination of the xenomorph race over humans in short order. Humans which also have long range weapons, and superior ones at that. The Na’vi bows and arrows will be nigh useless against Na’vi born xenomorphs, acting only, at best, to cause acid spouts.”
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The humans also spent the first several months acting like a bunch of idiots, not expending their full power and trying to capture specimens for weapons programmes while sabotaging every other group trying to do the same. With regard to na’vi bows, they would be significantly more effective than the weapons the aliens can ignore; small calibre soft slugs. The energy inherent in a na’vi bow is comparable if not greater than a ballista (will grab the calc off a previous thread in a bit). So na’vi bows will be effective.
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“While I don’t understand the mechanics of how ballistic glass stops bullets, the arrows may simply be too large for the glass to be effective against. Remember not all armoring types are effective against all weapons. You do not receive equal protection against all forms of attack across the board. It’s all about the kind of energy and how its applied.”
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The greater mass gives them a greater overall KE than a lot of bullets.
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“I don’t see why… In what manner do you mean? I can’t conceive of any reason they would have a difficult time. Just get a grip and shove the pipe in. Knocks the target out flat and impregnates.”
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Most pandoran creatures don’t breath through their mouth, so the facehugger won’t be able to knock them out or even really incapacitate as they normally do. Also, the length of the ovipositor will be a factor.
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“From a Caiman. I dread to imagine what a Thanatar would produce.”
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I see batman, no way is that canon.
Based off the longbows found in the mary rose and scaling up to na’vi size you get 7.8kj, quite a bit more than a modern rifle round. More than 3 times that of an AK47 round.
“You are not in Kansas any more. You are on Pandora! Beyond those walls, every living thing that flies, crawls, or squats in the mud wants to kill you and eat your eyes for jujubees.”
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The grizzled, steel hard face of the Colonel stared down the new arrivals, searching their eyes for weaknesses; fear, apprehension, misunderstanding of the gravity of their new home-he saw all of these things in spades.
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Quaritch grimaced at the freshly decanted personnel. Many of them were duck toothed scientists or high school drop out rock thumpers. It didn’t matter where you came from; on Pandora, it WAS going to be Hell. Coldly, he cut the population of the briefing hall into three groups. The first group would be dead within three months if they were lucky. Second group would follow them by the ninth month. The last group would be whittled down by half over the course of two years, and those that remained would be just like him: Hard, soulless, meanest-sons-uf-bitches on this rock.
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Slowly, he angled his head towards the arrivals, displaying the massive Acid Scars that deformed nearly half of his skull’s flesh. He pointed at the blotchy, nearly necrotic tissue.
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“But there’s something even worse out there. Things that crawled right into your worst dreams and killed everybody there before moving on. Something that would make Satan himself have second thoughts.” He paused, letting the words sink in. “There is a native population of Parisitoids hiding out there. They lay eggs inside of whatever can’t get away or kill itself, and the embryo will take on characteristics of the host. Some of them can grow to be twenty feet tall, and have carapaces reinforced with naturally occurring carbon fiber that make our basic ballistics look like peashooters. They produce no body heat, and can blend so well they are invisible in darkness. They can roll an APC like a coke bottle.” A curt, sardonic leer crossed onto his face.
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“And eighty seven percent of you will be killed by them within the timespan of one year.”
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He saw the “Pandora Pales”, the look of absolute terror that almost every new recruit on this rock took on once they heard his security briefing. There was much more to say, but that could wait. He turned on a heel and began to walk back out the door. He paused at the doorway.
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“Sweet Dreams Ladies and Gentlemen. If you haven’t got the habit of sleeping with a firearm under your pillow. I’d suggest you start.”
Slight problem with the facehuggers on most native wildlife: they’re not big enough. They’re not big enough to cover the entire face, hell they can’t even cover the entire mouth. Their tails aren’t long enough to wrap around the throat to constrict it, and I doubt they’re strong enough to constrict something both that big and armored to boot. Furthermore, the horses at least have some sort of gills so constricting the throat probably wouldn’t do anything anyway. The only things I can see facehugging working on are viperwolves and the Na’vi themselves. Aside from that little hiccup a xeno warrior is stronger, faster, and better armored than a Na’vi so if they get a hive started they’d roll over everything on Pandora.
I agree that the Xenos would pose a threat to the Na’vi, but the Na’vi will always be larger in number and could swarm the xenos, not the other way around.
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And even if the facehuggers would be able to “hug” an animal big enough to pose a major threat, I still belive in the Na’vi. considering that most of the adults are warriors and hunters.
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And even if the xenos became airborne, the Na’vi warriors would still overwhelm them.
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And if the xeno-threat became as bis as the “skypeople” in Avatar, then Eywa Uberstomp, you saw the movie.
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“3.bp.blogspot.com/-XrL7qPZqYvs/TlUJd60hSyI/AAAAAAAABUs/8vF-yKQDUxI/s1600/hybrid.jpg
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From a Caiman. I dread to imagine what a Thanatar would produce.”
Unlikely that big…
nice pic though
but whats Batman doing there?
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Btw thank you EnigmaJ for this battle and for responding with the scenario.
@Gluttonous-Behemoth
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I like the way you think
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Sorry for double
Here’s a list of creatures on Pandora:
james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Creatures
Haven’t read it yet, so I admittedly don’t know what each one can do. But I do know this: they’re all extremely dangerous. Specifics later.
Hey, Eywa can “control” all non-sentient life connected to it, basically, right? Could it do the same to a PandoraXeno?
The Xenos were meant to take control of an entire population with minimal troops. Once they land, they will not just rush the nearest living thing. They won’t just attach to the biggest thing they will start of with something they can handle, maybe that little helicopter lizard or ambush some viper wolves.
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Once they increase their numbers, I would assume they would try to take on something bigger, maybe ambush a stray Navi, or a sleeping Thanatar.
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Also, the arrows didn’t really do that much damage to the glass, they barely scratched and chipped it. Though for a bow ad arrow, that is pretty impressive.
That link epicazeroth provided, in the thanator section there is some trivia.
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“The original scriptment, by James Cameron, mentions that the thanator could easily defeat a T. Rex and eat the Alien Queen for breakfast. ”
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So, that is kind of definite on the subject.
Well, if it were to bite the Queen it would be dead. It’s face would melt off. So I don’t think it’s a definite just because his opinion says so.
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The prolemuris would probably be the face huggers primary target. They are non aggressive primates that would yield some pretty scary Xenos.
an Alien Queen but there is the fact that the new Pandora brand Xeno’s may be tougher.
@Enigma: “Several” isnt a defintive number. Could be anything from two to twenty or above
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I don’t know if the game is canon, but the Leucomelas Viperwolf can emit blinding flashes of light to blind its opponent, then run or fight. Also, the Wasp Viperwolf can turn almost invisible (slight shimmer, or whatever.) The Galactonotus subspecies can heal very fast. So, that kinda rules out Viperwolves.
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Also, not the Titanotheres are dangerous. Sturmbeests are very dangerous, and will stampede anything that gets too close to their food or herd (basically their entire territory.)
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Also, Slingers can shoot their heads (really a baby Slinger) into their target (it’s also self-guiding and poisonous.) The Na’Vi use these as weapons.
@Reaper
well he is word of god for both series.
I-REAPER-I has the idea. They’re not stupid animals, the Xenomorphs are kind of like a swarm.
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They’ll slowly build up their numbers till it is threatening.
Also, swarms of extremely fast, extremely poisonous Hellfire Wasps (swarms the size of a Robodozer.) Those could just attack the Xenos, and dart away.
@GuardianAngel1911: He isn’t. Cameron created the Avatar series. He only directed one Alien movie, the second one.
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Highest authority in that series is Ridley Scott.
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Too boot, that kind of thing can be called bias als Bayonetta/Dante.
@Commander Cube
Are you a newblood?
If so, You’re interesting to learn about, I’ll let time itself dictate whether you’re friend or foe, but any case speaking, welcome to factpile!
@Epic
Unless the wasps stingers produce more energy that a 12 gauge, they won’t do jack to the exoskeleton of the Xenos. Plus, don’t the Xenos have poison immunity? Same goes for the Slinger, which is an awesome concept though.
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@Guardian
Even if he was, which he isn’t. He can’t just negate the fact that the pressurized acid inside the Queen will just shoot down the Thanator’s throat and melt it down to nothing in seconds. That is exactly what would happen.
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“”The original scriptment, by James Cameron, mentions that the thanator could easily defeat a T. Rex and eat the Alien Queen for breakfast. ”
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So, that is kind of definite on the subject.”
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1. Cameron directed 1 Alien movie, and thus is not qualified or authorized to say, on an official level, what will or won’t eat an alien queen for breakfast.
2. It says ‘original scriptment’. The thanator could have changed drastically from it’s description in the first scriptment to further scripts or scripments.
@Reaper
oh, I just saw that he was the Director of Aliens, didn’t know he wasn’t the word of god on it.
Where. Is. This. Thing. Landing?
A Thanator beating a T-Rex? Sauro would probably disagree rather passionately about that.
“Where. Is. This. Thing. Landing. And. Who’s. In. It?”
Fixed.
“3.bp.blogspot.com/-XrL7qPZqYvs/TlUJd60hSyI/AAAAAAAABUs/8vF-yKQDUxI/s1600/hybrid.jpg
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From a Caiman. I dread to imagine what a Thanatar would produce.”
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Oh yeah. That looks canon.
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“Xenos born of flying creatures can fly.”
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Proof? Considering that a Queen is the ultimate evolutionary goal of a Xeno, I doubt this.
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Why is the assumption being made that the carbon fiber from the bones of the Na’vi can be incorporated into the exoskeleton of the Xeno? Sorry to say it, but bone and chitin (or whatever the hell the Xeno’s have) are composed of completely different materials with completely different chemical structures. Sure, it would be cool for that to happen, but these are entirely different organs we’re talking about here. It’d be like saying that because the xeno’s got inside of a creature with super-sensitive skin that now they have super eye-sight.
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“Also, the arrows didn’t really do that much damage to the glass, they barely scratched and chipped it. Though for a bow ad arrow, that is pretty impressive.”
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That was when they were shooting upwards at the glass, and no direct hits were possible. When shooting down (I’ll admit gravity helped), they went right through the glass. On top of that, IIRC, the arrows could go through AMP suit glass.
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“In every setting we’ve seen with the xenomorphs, it was always on human turf outside of the first AvP movie. Always a place the humans called home. This did not alter things too greatly in their favor, still resulting in virtually no survivors even if there’s just one xenomorph.”
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“Human Turf”. You mean dark, enclosed environments with a tightly packed population? That’s not going to happen on Pandora.
@ epicazeroth
Just my opinion, but the success of the Xenos in conquering Pandora is directly proportional to its distance from a Na’Vi village upon landing.
That is, the closer they are, the less chances they have of getting a headstart.
The marines that fight Xenos have way higher firepower than shown in avatar. Go read some of the older xeno threads, specifically midnite marauder’s posts. Size of the face hugger is my only concern. Xenomorphs would destroy the navi. They are just as organized, hunt in packs, are EXTREME problem solvers, and are ruthlessly efficient. They have no problems making traps or sacrificing some warriors for a net gain.
People are getting restless I see
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I didn’t think the location would make much of a difference since I presumed the Xeno’s had the intelligence and the stealth to dictate first contact irregardless. But if it were my decision, I’d say the ship crashes 15 minutes from any Na’vi settlement.
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And I know “several” isn’t exact, but I don’t think I really need to be when you consider the huge disparity between Pandora’s population and the invaders. Although, when I said “several”, I didn’t think it could be extrapolated much beyond ~5 or 6.
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“That is, the closer they are, the less chances they have of getting a headstart.”
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Whatever you decide, keep in mind that they’ll be a learning curve for both sides.
Ok then… Note never to use that emoticon.
@ Primus
There are less than ten Xenos in this fight.
And about five dozen facehuggers.
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The added rule of being fifteen minutes from any Na’Vi settlement is going to be the downfall of Pandora.
Assuming that the landing site doesn’t have any creatures near it when it lands, I’m going to say first contact would be from a small hunting party of Na’Vi.
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There is a problem with Pandora itself though.
simplywallpaper.net/pictures/2010/04/28/Hallelujah-Mountains-2.jpg
How are the Xenos going to get up those?
“The marines that fight Xenos have way higher firepower than shown in avatar.”
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I have to disagree. An arrow the size of a spear being launched by something much stronger than a human (Going off of Cananatra here) is at least as strong as a gun.
@Hermit: You’re right. They’ll need to either fly, or jump hundreds of feet in the air (I don’t think they can climb vines like that), and they need to land far away from any animals.
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Also, how do I put emoticons?
I disagree with the human Turf Part. What about the Predator Shrine from AVP 2010? There is some very thick jungle that the Xenos operated in with a good deal of effectiveness.
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I also think that the element of surprise will help the Xenos here.
On the strength of Na’vi, I do not doubt they are stronger than the average human, but how much stronger is debatable. Two points on that are
1. Pandora’s notedly lower gravity
2. The slimmer builds of Na’vi
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We’ve never actually seen anything in the way of Na’vi feats of strength, and their arrows have been far from consistent. They went from minor scratching and chipping at the destruction of the hometree, to extreme degree penetration during the final battle. I cannot imagine the extra kinetic energy imparted by downward momentum on a banshee could cause such a significant difference.
Having landed a decent distance away from any Navi camp, I say this goes to the Xenos. This is why.
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The Xenos will not land, then bum rush the nearest thing. Like I said. They will wait until they see something they can knock up, like viper wolves or the polemuris (spelling). A xeno born from an alien monkey with four arms or the alien wolf equivalent of a velociraptor would be pretty formidable.
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Once they’re numbers or a little more threatening, they would go for bigger game. Either they would subdue a larger creature to allow the face huggers to knock it up, or they would ambush a small hunting party. They might even be able to sneak up on sleeping banshees since they nest up in the Tree of Souls.
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Then when their numbers are at the point where they would be able to deal with losses, they would move on a larger settlement. This patter would go on until Pandora is overrun.
“Where did you get that from? Serious curiosity because I’ve never encountered those types. Also queens are the same no matter what they come from, they are pure strain once they transform into a queen.”
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Depends on what you can consider canon and what you can’t. In Aliens Vs Predator for the SNES there was a queen with wings. Besides that its a known fact that Xenomorphs take their appearance and characteristics from what they impregnate. In the Aliens: Colonial Marines comics the xenos managed to impregnate aquatic creatures of large size and thus bred whale sized xenos. This is further seen in the toys made for Aliens with back stories for all the breeds bred from various animals and insects.
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“Slight problem with the facehuggers on most native wildlife: they’re not big enough. They’re not big enough to cover the entire face, hell they can’t even cover the entire mouth. Their tails aren’t long enough to wrap around the throat to constrict it, and I doubt they’re strong enough to constrict something both that big and armored to boot. ”
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Actually this is not entirely true. It is unknown how they did it but they managed to impregnate the Space Jockie who was huge in comparison to a regular human as seen here
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1.bp.blogspot.com/_8sv9gYsuLwc/SZirSdNmPII/AAAAAAAAAEo/C3xW7_iLs50/s1600/006.jpg
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“I have to disagree. An arrow the size of a spear being launched by something much stronger than a human (Going off of Cananatra here) is at least as strong as a gun.”
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The M41-E fires explosive rounds via pulse technology. According to the novels that things can shred a human being not just poke holes in him but a close range blast that can literally tear a man in half and this is further clarified by the Tech Manual. That’s just a basic weapon. The further up the line you go the more powerful the weapons are. Arrows are worthless seeing as even if they are as powerful as say a M-4 carbine it still takes damn near half the magazine to take down a single drone as seen in AvP: Requim.
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“The humans also spent the first several months acting like a bunch of idiots, not expending their full power and trying to capture specimens for weapons programmes ”
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They tried but they failed. If you read the second novel you’d see that all attempts to find a biological solution has failed. They were genetically engineered to be immune to all forms of disease and poisons. Hence why even as far as into the 4th book xenos were still around on earth.
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“There is a problem with Pandora itself though.
simplywallpaper.net/pictures/2010/04/28/Hallelujah-Mountains-2.jpg
How are the Xenos going to get up those?”
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The creatures are smarter then you think. They have basic problem solving skills which increase the older they get. They are seen to know how to operate basic machinery. If need be they will either stack wood and stone up to get up there or they will stack each other up to get up there as seen in Aliens: Harvest.
I just thought of this. The only reason bullets do any damage to Xenos is because they move fast, and are small. The arrows move slower, so what I’m thinking is since the acid blood can melt through metal like tissue paper, won’t the arrows just dissolve the second they pierce (IF they pierce) the Xenos armor? Once the arrow head enters the Xeno, the acid should just dissolve it as more of it enters it’s body.
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Think of this for a more clear image of what I’m talking about. If I were to stab a Xeno with a spear, the spear would just dissolve more the further I pushed it in right? Same concept.
“I just thought of this. The only reason bullets do any damage to Xenos is because they move fast, and are small. The arrows move slower, so what I’m thinking is since the acid blood can melt through metal like tissue paper, won’t the arrows just dissolve the second they pierce (IF they pierce) the Xenos armor? Once the arrow head enters the Xeno, the acid should just dissolve it as more of it enters it’s body.
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Think of this for a more clear image of what I’m talking about. If I were to stab a Xeno with a spear, the spear would just dissolve more the further I pushed it in right? Same concept.”
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Pretty much. In the first Alien the blood was potent enough that a single drop almost melted through the Nostromo which is basically three decks of solid titanium.
Then the Navi don’t have a chance in hell. That is, unless someone can prove me wrong.
“The original scriptment, by James Cameron, mentions that the thanator could easily defeat a T. Rex and eat the Alien Queen for breakfast. ”
It’s got to be a Joke, LMAO, animals don’t eat breakfast, what an idiot.
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Xenos win.
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“the Leucomelas Viperwolf can emit blinding flashes of light to blind its opponent”
Xenos are not affected by blinding attacks.
Oh and, Flash Bang Xenos.
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“the Wasp Viperwolf can turn almost invisible (slight shimmer, or whatever.)”
The Xenos can sense them.
And, Invisibility cloaking Exoskeleton, Stealth Xenos.
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“The Galactonotus subspecies can heal very fast. ”
Xeno Blood would neutralize that.
Also, super fast self regenerative Exoskeleton for the Xenos.
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“Slingers can shoot their heads (really a baby Slinger) into their target (it’s also self-guiding and poisonous.) ”
Poison won’t do anything to the Xenos.
And, Self Guiding Poisonous Xeno Acid.
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I’m sure that if the Xeno get one moth, they would have enough forces to wipe out the Na’vi even if the humans supplied them with weapons, airships and vehicles.
“The original scriptment, by James Cameron, mentions that the thanator could easily defeat a T. Rex and eat the Alien Queen for breakfast. ”
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Who gives a shit what Cameron has to say especially since he hasn’t fucked with it since the first Alien. The queen is bigger, stronger, faster, and a shit load smarter then the Thanator. The Thanator is only 8ft tall. A young queen is 17ft tall and older ones can grow to be double or even triple that size.
I agree with Red. Just because Cameron said it doesn’t make it true. If Stan Lee were to say that Mr. Fantastic could solo Thanos, does it make it true? We still have logic and facts regarding the characters to decide whether or not it is true.
“If Stan Lee were to say that Mr. Fantastic could solo Thanos, does it make it true? We still have logic and facts regarding the characters to decide whether or not it is true.”
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Actually, it does make it true. Lee (to my knowledge) is still the Word of God on Marvel, so what he says goes. It may not make sense, but it’s his creation to do what he wishes with. Luckily, he hasn’t said that (I hope).
It would make it true if he wrote a story to give Richard the power to solo Thanos. But if he just said it out of the blue, without providing a backstory or explanation, it isn’t true.
“So, that is kind of definite on the subject.”
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It’d help if he actually made it capable of even remotely being as powerful and dangerous as a T-Rex, which could obliterate those AMP suits accidentally just by playing with one. The Thanator is no match for an Alien Queen. I don’t know where you get the pure strain business, or where you get off claiming the caiman is inadmissable because it was from a batman cross over. It’s accepted fact that Aliens change massively based on their host animal. We’ve seen the much lighter and more quadrupedal dog alien and the far heftier and more powerful predalien for starters if you really want only movies comparisons. The bigger the animal, the bigger the xeno. One which morphs in to a queen would naturally be even larger. In the alternate universe toy line there was the flying queen for example, very different from the standard human born queen. We have a number of lines of Alien stories where they change and get bigger based on their host animal. Getting whiney about canonicity when the franchise is currently rife with multiple universes is kind of ridiculous.
If Rahl were supposed to be FTL and Goodkind mentioned the idea out of the blue, with no explaination whatsoever, would that make it true either?
Doubtful.
Winged Xenomorph Queens are new.
“I have to disagree. An arrow the size of a spear being launched by something much stronger than a human (Going off of Cananatra here) is at least as strong as a gun.”
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The colonial marines pack far greater fire power than the ones in pandora, and have superior exo-suits. This only helps them when they have every possible advantage and even then there are often losses. The Mercs on Pandora were stomping the Na’vi flat, what hope do the Navi have if we go by comparison of human opponents?
Wow Cana, you kinda got stomped…
Xeno’s have this in the bag. MAYBE they’ll lose some troops, but they will quickly adapt and overcome the Na’vi. I don’t think their nature connection will help them out much now.
@Michael
If the Pandora residents get their connections turned against them, how long do you think they got before said connections get used via the Xenomorphs against them?
Xenos for the FP award. I don’t see anybody coming up with a defensive strategy for Pandora, though I really would like to.
+1 for the Xenos. I don’t see how Pandora can win.
The Na’vi where getting their butts kicked by those mercenaries, there wasn’t even that much, just a few hundreds and the Na’vi where around thousands if what they said in the movie was true.
But then whatever that trees name is, called it’s homies and gang up on the mercenaries.
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But now they are about against the Xenos, who can woop far more superior military technology and outnumbered.
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The Xenos will have their fair amount of forces in no time, at about the fist week, there will be nothing the Na’vi can do to stop the reproduction, their time to strike has passed since day 2, all the Xenos need now is to expand the amount and then start delivering the stomp.
Me too, count me in, I go for the Xenos.
2-0 for Xenos. Although, if done correctly, with good actors, screenplay, director and stuff. This would make a BADASS movie. Seriously, I would literally knife fight my own mother to see what an Xeno-Thanatar, or a Xeno-Leonopteryx would look like.
One more time……..knife fight……mother…..yeah…
Dang it!
I had this really long post lined up in Pandora’s “defense”, but it didn’t load.
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The gist of it is, the Xenos will not conquer Pandora that easily because of the floating islands. The islands will serve as a sort of final base for the Pandorans because of its remote location.
wallpapershi.net/wallpapers/2011/12/floating-islands-on-pandora-from-avatar-wallpaper-3d-movie-1200×1600.jpg
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Also, in response to G.B.’s statement of the element of surprise.
Everything in Pandora is connected, and a big hunk of metal crashing in your backyard is very noticeable.
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There’s also Eywa, as a very last resort measure against the Xenos, which will turn the entire world of Pandora against the invaders.
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