Suggested By Xeno Dementio
The scenario- Having destroyed his own world in his ‘fun’, Kefka has moved on to the next, which happens to be the land of Hyrule.
Having laud waste to the lands and inhabitants, there is but one left to oppose him: the Dark King of Evil Ganondorf.
Battlefield is a halfway destroyed Hyrule Castle.
Ganondorf is a composite of all his canon appearances.
Kefka is at full power and final form.
Who wins this duel of the fates?
“If Ganon splits himself in half, does the two souls now have the same power as the original, or is it splitting the power?”
Ganondorf didn’t lose any of his power after the split.
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“in ff6 magic can destroy spirits, therefore i don’t see why he cant destroy agahnim or banish him.”
Ganondorf is good at playing the banishing card too……
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“The only thing Ganon seems to have going for him is the fact that his a soul that can regenerate a body out of nothing, as for the FF side, they have magic to deal with that.”
FF6=/=the rest of FF. Don’t interchange stuff.
“His soul is what does that, Doom has nothing to do to the body, when Doom counter reaches Zero, it doesn’t do 9999HP damage, it flat out destroys the soul of the victim, in some FFs Doom is represented by “a sort of grim alike demon thingy” that rips the souls out of the victim and destroys it.”
I’m gonna need a codex or excerpt from the game to believe that. All I’ve seen about it is that, a timer appears of the head, when the timer runs out, said character dies. Not impressive.
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“in ff6 magic can destroy spirits, therefore i don’t see why he cant destroy agahnim or banish him.”
Because Agahnim is represented physically as well as spiritually. This again, shows Ganons magical prowess; not only can he repair himself from nothing, or split his soul, he can split his soul, and create a body for said soul to manifest itself in.
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Also, Shadow Ganon/Puppet Ganon/Shadow Link. We forgetting any of these guys? Ganon creates them with magic, therefore they do not count as outside help.
“His soul is what does that, Doom has nothing to do to the body, when Doom counter reaches Zero, it doesn’t do 9999HP damage, it flat out destroys the soul of the victim, in some FFs Doom is represented by “a sort of grim alike demon thingy” that rips the souls out of the victim and destroys it.”
I see numbers, therefor I see gameplay mechanics.
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Hope Ganondorf’s HP bar is at 10,000…..
“How powerful were these spirits? Could they survive attacks that have broken they’re own castle sized magical barriers and come out completely unharmed and with the attacker of said spirit even more worse off?”
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my point here was mainly to prove that his magic is capable doing damage to spirits, not that the spirits were strong. and considering that light of judgement was powerful enough to destroy towns, those ganon have durability to handle that type of attack.
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“But if it satisfies you, Ganondorf could send a part of his soul (aka Agahnim) out to zap either the stone or Kefka himself with some lightning”
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and whats stopping kefka from destroying agahnim. better yet whats stopping kefka from banishing petrified ganon to a different dimension.
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“Ganondorf can make his body go from physical to non-physical Twilight particles, rendering the Stone spell useless.”
can he do this while petrified.
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“Or he could, ya know, turn invisible and intangible and shit.”
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which would be a bad idea, considering that it makes him even more suspectible to kefka’s magic.
“which would be a bad idea, considering that it makes him even more suspectible to kefka’s magic.”
Here’s that false, twisted logic I’m used to seeing again. Did you also come to the conclusion that since bullets bounce off of Superman, they are Super Effective against him?
“Ganondorf is good at playing the banishing card too……”
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too bad hes petrified.
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“Because Agahnim is represented physically as well as spiritually.”
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that does not stop him from getting killed or banished, considering magic can work on physical people as well.
“Here’s that false, twisted logic I’m used to seeing again. Did you also come to the conclusion that since bullets bounce off of Superman, they are Super Effective against him?”
what the hell are you talking about?
“my point here was mainly to prove that his magic is capable doing damage to spirits, not that the spirits were strong.”
All I needed to read here.
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“and considering that light of judgement was powerful enough to destroy towns, those ganon have durability to handle that type of attack.”
Destroyed towns….possibly 1 house at a time. Ganondorf has gotten back up from the collapse of his own castle. Try harder.
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“and whats stopping kefka from destroying agahnim. better yet whats stopping kefka from banishing petrified ganon to a different dimension.”
You assume Kefka can see invisible teleport spamming evil sorcerers…..
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“can he do this while petrified.”
I think it’s about time you explained the strongest thing “petrify” can work on…..
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“which would be a bad idea, considering that it makes him even more suspectible to kefka’s magic.”
Based on….?
Doom is not a heart attack thing or a body disintegration, this is about destroying the soul, it works on spirits, ghost, and souls, the only thing Ganon can reform is a new body, but he cannot reform is his very own soul.
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“turn invisible and intangible and shit.”
Invisibility is not a problem, Kefka can sense him and FF6 deals with intangible things.
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Ganon can split his soul however he want’s, every peace of them will just get neutralized by Kefka’s magic.
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And Kefka can nullify elemental magic and absorb them to heal himself, so it’s not a good idea to fight with elemental magic.
Every single spell used against Ganondorf has had no effect against him with two exceptions:
Spells that have anti-evil/anti-demon properties.
Sealing spells.
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All other spells that have been used against him in the Zeldaverse were non-effective.
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I think it is safe to say that he has some beefy magical protection.
“I think it is safe to say that he has some beefy magical protection.”
We don’t know this, Ganon has not met FF spells there by he has never shown immunity to them.
Kefka has shown immunity to spells like Poison, Stop, Stone, X-Zone, Doom, you name it, he is a god and won’t be affected by them.
When I said “Shown” is because it has being caste on him and the immune word pops out.
So unless Ganon has feats that show immunity to this magics, he has non.
Um, everyone here keeps saying that the ghosts in FF are intangible and are said ‘spirits’. While I have not played FF6, nor do I plan to, I can already tell you that with my experience of playing FF that the said “intangible ghosts” were hit with physical attacks.
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This therefore negates all of those attacks that are said to ‘destroy’ or ‘rip apart’ the soul unless further proof is presented. As, in the FF verse, souls can apparently be harmed physically.
X-zone is useless because Ganondorf has not only shown the ability to trave through dimensions, but was able to transport his soul through it.
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Can Kefka travel inter-dimensionally? because whats to stop Ganon from banishing him?
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While for stop, I must say I’m a weaker link (no pun intended) in the Zelda franchise. Though if I were to think there were feats for time stops in any of the Zelda games I would say Phantom Hourglass would be the best one for those.
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Doom cannot be proven to be a soul attack. Textual or game evidence that says so please.
“Doom is not a heart attack thing or a body disintegration, this is about destroying the soul, it works on spirits, ghost, and souls, the only thing Ganon can reform is a new body, but he cannot reform is his very own soul.”
Again, excerpt or codex, please. I’m not taking your word for it.
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“Ganon can split his soul however he want’s, every peace of them will just get neutralized by Kefka’s magic.”
Care to elaborate further on this? You guys just keep making outlandish claims without any evidence to support them.
“Doom cannot be proven to be a soul attack. Textual or game evidence that says so please.”
Then what do you think it is?
It clearly makes no physical damage, in FF10 it is represented by a ghost that rips the bodies soul and destroys it.
Doom is clearly considered a spiritual thing.
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“Can Kefka travel inter-dimensionally? because whats to stop Ganon from banishing him?”
He opens a portal to another dimension (X-Zone) so of course he can.
The match description didn’t wank Kefka just to set up a scenario, Kefka is considered to do so.
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“Um, everyone here keeps saying that the ghosts in FF are intangible and are said ‘spirits’. While I have not played FF6, nor do I plan to, I can already tell you that with my experience of playing FF that the said “intangible ghosts” were hit with physical attacks.”
Could be done that way for gameplay, but FF does have it’s logic when it comes to intangible creatures.
apparently the ghost in FF6 seem to have a degree of solidness, but a ghost is still a ghost same as a spirit or soul, they get hurt by magic including Doom.
“It clearly makes no physical damage, in FF10 it is represented by a ghost that rips the bodies soul and destroys it.
Doom is clearly considered a spiritual thing.”
First: The number “damage measurements”, are a game mechanic. Game mechanics =/= Canon.
Second, last I checked FF VI IS NOT FFX.
“Then what do you think it is?
It clearly makes no physical damage, in FF10 it is represented by a ghost that rips the bodies soul and destroys it.
Doom is clearly considered a spiritual thing.”
FF6 IS NOT FF10.
“Again, excerpt or codex, please. I’m not taking your word for it.”
Doom can neutralize Ganon’s soul (Ganon is his soul, thereby destroying Ganon himself), you can’t kill him physically, so you kill him spiritually.
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“Care to elaborate further on this? You guys just keep making outlandish claims without any evidence to support them.”
Kefka’s magic (the ones that can destroy Ganon’s soul).
And it is said that Ganon can split his soul and send them into multiple directions, how is this better if he is splinting his powers thus making him weaker.
And that’s why I asked if this is true, can Ganon split in two half (for example) and both of this have a split of his power or have the same effectiveness as if they where hole?
“So unless Ganon has feats that show immunity to this magics, he has non.”
*facepalm*
I’m going to refer you to the post directly above this mentioned one… Ganon has showed COMPLETE IMMUNITY to any form of magic other than A: Holy/Evil killing Spells. (Even then, how many times has he been “killed” by the Sword of Evils Bane)?
B:Seals. (Even then, how many of those has he broken out of exactly)?
“The match description didn’t wank Kefka just to set up a scenario, Kefka is considered to do so.”
Uhh yeah, Xeno wanked Kefka.
“Could be done that way for gameplay, but FF does have it’s logic when it comes to intangible creatures.
apparently the ghost in FF6 seem to have a degree of solidness, but a ghost is still a ghost same as a spirit or soul, they get hurt by magic including Doom.”
So then your claims about Doom being soul ripping is null and void. If the Soul can be attack by any physical entity in FF6 then…
either every weapon in the game has soul busting power.
or (more likely)
these souls are different in entirety to real souls. From what i understand it’s definitely different from Zelda’s souls. Therefore it cannot affect Ganon’s soul.
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And it is not Intangible if you can hit it physically, end of story.
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“Then what do you think it is?
It clearly makes no physical damage, in FF10 it is represented by a ghost that rips the bodies soul and destroys it.
Doom is clearly considered a spiritual thing.”
Yes, but that’s FF10, not FF6. Even so, the Grim is just a representation of the move. It’s a “Death” move. It does not say how it kills the target, whether it be slashing up internal organs (as most incarnations of the Doom spell have him slice the enemy with the scythe) to just causing a heart attack. This could even be propped up to ‘the designers didn’t want a cut in half character’ or even the graphics weren’t good enough. Being a lightly rated game the first option seems better. You cant prove it soul rends without textual support.
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Even so, Doom is a highly risky move as it nearly always misses.
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“He opens a portal to another dimension (X-Zone) so of course he can.”
This does not EXACTLY mean he can travel through it and travel interdimensionally. Maybe he could travel to the X-zone, but not back. Which means Kefka can be banished by Ganon and he can only travel to the X-Zone while Ganon has been shown multiple times to have traveled across dimensions.
Um… ghosts can be killed with mundane weapons in Zelda too.
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Then again that isn’t always consistant either.
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OoT Poes, for example, leave their souls behind when killed by mundane physical force. TP Poes die because their souls are physically removed from their ghostly, semi-intangible bodies (semi-intangible because they can move through objects but Wolf!Link’s superior senses allow him to track them and rip them apart; normal Link just hits air).
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Ghosts in LoZ, LtP, LA, and Oracles can be killed if smashed enough. That said, these might be like the Poes where they leave their spirits behind when physically destroyed, and game mechanics just doesn’t bother with showing that, but that is also conjecture.
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Of course LA was set in a dream world so I’m not sure those ones count. Those were Boos by the way. … like, Boos from Mario. Yeah, LA had a lot of that.
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Ghinis (another ghost type enemy) are refered to oddly in the LoZ manual. The ambiugous texts can be taken to imply that every Ghini is actually the same entity. So going by that outlook that all Ghini are a single collective entity it doesn’t die but is merely beaten back.
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Ghoul Rats can only be hurt by Wolf!Link while using his wolf senses. Normal Link just hits air.
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Hyu’s play this straight. They can die by mundane weapons. They are the ghosts from LttP.
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Nocturns are affected by light sources, and that alters their body structure making them physical.
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Rupee Wraiths are something you just have to run away from.
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“Them” from MM might be aliens so…yeah
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WW Poes are turned physical by light, and thus defeatable.
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Death Sword starts out only vulnerable to Wolf!Link’s senses. Later though he becomes physical and normal Link can fight him with mundane stuff.
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The Poe sisters are an oddity that act like Hyu’s but are named Poes.
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So I guess most ghostly enemies require some special requirements to be made in order to kill them. Poes are notably never killed even when you tear their souls out, and they are more similiar to FF ghost-type enemies than most ghost type enemies from LoZverse. Only Hyu’s being almost exactly like FF ghosts. Then again, Hyu’s are found in the Dark World; everything is wonky there, like talking trees that spit bombs, walking skelatin chickens, foxes dressed as theives, and a talking monkey. I don’t think that place should count.
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Make of this as you will.
@OMEGAMI
I’m picking your paragraphs apart piece by piece and I’m going to repeat what has been said numerous times…
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“Doom can neutralize Ganon’s soul (Ganon is his soul, thereby destroying Ganon himself), you can’t kill him physically, so you kill him spiritually.”
FOR THE THIRD TIME, WE NEED SOMETHING FROM THE GAME STATING THAT IT ATTACKS THE SOUL. Your assumption IS. NOT. PROOF. If the game doesn’t say it directly attacks the soul, then it doesn’t. Simple as that.
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“Kefka’s magic (the ones that can destroy Ganon’s soul).”
You didn’t elaborate. AT ALL. You just repeated what you previously said. Which Magic is that? Where is the proof that it destroys souls? How would it effect Ganon? Can Kefka even cast this? What EXACTLY does this spell do? What element is it? ELABORATE.
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“And it is said that Ganon can split his soul and send them into multiple directions, how is this better if he is splinting his powers thus making him weaker.”
This was in response to the Petrify spell.
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“And that’s why I asked if this is true, can Ganon split in two half (for example) and both of this have a split of his power or have the same effectiveness as if they where hole?”
He wouldn’t even need to do this, so your question is irrelevant.
The only guy that can travel through dimensions in FF is Gilgamesh.
Lol, FF-tards…….
“apparently the ghost in FF6 seem to have a degree of solidness, but a ghost is still a ghost same as a spirit or soul, they get hurt by magic including Doom.”
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Um… In the Zeldaverse a Ghost, a Spirit, and Soul are completely different things. Each of them being unique to themselves.
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A Ghost is a creature like a Poe, which generally has a semi-intangible body. Poes leave behind their souls when they die. Their physical, ghostly body is seperate from their soul.
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Spirits are like The Hero’s Shade from TP. They can take many forms, The Hero’s Shade taking the form of a Golden Wolf and later a Stalfos. What’s more is that the Hero’s Shade is Link, The Hero of Time, and the soul that left The Hero of Time when he died and became The Hero’s Shade, that soul was reincarnated into one of his descendant, TP Link.
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Souls, as you might have figured out, are even more robust. Whenever they die they reincarnate. That was one of the reasons why it was such a big deal in the Adult Timeline when OoT Link left it. He took his soul with him and left that timeline without a Hero’s soul to save the world. WW Link’s quest in WW was all about him becoming the new hero. Unlike TP LInk, who was flat out chosen by the gods because he carried the soul of the previous Links, WW Link had to undergo challenges to prove himself worthy… and he did. and it was awesome.
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Yeah, so, not exactly a good choice of words there, buddy.
@Kuja
Thank you sir.
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So, now we see that Ganon can win with a simple “BEGONE DEMON!!1!1!” /jk
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Lets drag this out a bit further then.
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@OA
Yes, but when Link is in his wolf form he is a spiritual entity of some sort. while I may not be exact on that claim it’s the basis.
Therefore TP poe’s can only be defeated by a spiritual enemy.
OoT poes… yeah, those ones are hurt by physical force, but the other side to that is that they seem to phase in and out of reality. Whether this is random or at whim I’m not sure. FF does not have such ghosts (from what I’ve played).
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I’m not familiar enough with LttP, LoZ, Oracles and LA to answer those. But from some of what you said we can see the requisites are the different to that of FF ghosts. Some Conjecture or not…
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Hyu ghosts, I cant answer about that but that’s only one out of the many others. It may be that they are the only one’s that stay physical or perhaps the sword is enchanted in such a way? I’m guessing as I have not gotten into those Zelda games.
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But you are right, nearly every one needs special requirements to destroy and most are different than the contant theme of ghosts in FF.
“WW Link had to undergo challenges to prove himself worthy… and he did. and it was awesome.”
I agree. Wind Waker is actually EXTREMELY underrated, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Definitely one of my favorite Zelda games.
OoT poes don’t die even when killed. Their souls are simply free’d from their Poe body. TP Poes’s bodies are killed when their souls are removed. Neither are truely dead when they are “killed”.
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I still think Hyu ghosts (lttp) are an oddity of the Dark World. They are only found there and they don’t fit in with the group entity that the Ghinis (loz) have going for it. And the Dark World is a strange world that reflects your true form or whatever (I mean, Link was a bunny!) so it is quite possible that the normal form of a Hyu is much more mundane than a ghost.
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You’re right about Wolf!Link. Within the Twilight covered Hyrule the normal people become spirits and Link becomes Wolf!Link. It is because of the Triforce of Courage’s magic, but still, he is in a spirit realm and that is his spirit form in that game. You have a good point there I didn’t consider. Ghoul Rats and Death Sword would go here too since same game.
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Most other ghosts are forced into physical form and then destroyed. That implies that a physical form is not natural to them and thus not at all like FF ghosts.
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LA is a dream world and has weird enough stuff as it is (dead serious here: telephone and television, goombas, Kirby, Bloober, piranha plants, shy guys, and talking aligators). Gah, that game was fun.
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The poe sisters are still an anomoly, but they are also a minority.
Very true, I didn’t consider the Poe’s soul thing. But does that mean they can be considered ghosts because their soul is separate than their form?
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LA sounds really weird. But fun.
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Right, so it seems that you’ve proven Zelda ghosts to be different from FF ones. Ghosts being diembodied spirits that would mean that Kefka’s attacks that can supposedly affect the ‘soul’ does not work against Ganon being that they are different things.
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Unless I’m missing evidence on Doom being a soul rending attack or other magic attacks that can do so.
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This match should be neatly wrapped up.
“Unless I’m missing evidence on Doom being a soul rending attack or other magic attacks that can do so.”
Nope. He still hasn’t provided proof to the whole, “spirit killing” part of it. He just keeps repeating himself, saying that it will work.
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“This match should be neatly wrapped up.”
I agree. We need to get some offensive feats for to determine what he can do to Kefka, however.
You might have a point but.
I do see Doom coming in as the Grim Reaper in FF6.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upGthQomYE&feature=player_detailpage#t=124s
First of all, In FF6 there are monsters or fiends that don’t have organs, they seem to be just some cloud or mist, they can be affected by Doom, so it can’t just be a heart attack or organ saturation.
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And I think of X-Zone as “X dimension” like, X house, X street, because they didn’t wanted to elaborate a name for the dimension/dimensions that where used to send people into.
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And some characters form FF1 and 2 could travel through dimensions I guess if we go by Dissidia?
“I do see Doom coming in as the Grim Reaper in FF6.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upGthQomYE&feature=player_detailpage#t=124s
First of all, In FF6 there are monsters or fiends that don’t have organs, they seem to be just some cloud or mist, they can be affected by Doom, so it can’t just be a heart attack or organ saturation.”
I don’t see him “tearing the soul out and killing it”. That doesn’t further the evidence the Doom killing G-Man.
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Just out of curiosity, is Doom Holy Magic? Was it created to specifically control, or seal evil? If not, it won’t work anyway.
Holy, you say?
Well, Ganondorf has shown pretty impressive feats for swordsmanship. But this match boils down to the magic aspect.
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As stated by Kuja, Kefka cannot travel dimensionally. Ganon, having done the same to his Phantom Ganon, could probably just Banish Kefka to that realm between somethings…
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If that doesn’t work he has other things. Creating more Ganondorf’s of course. Dead man’s volly….
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This could be a stalemate depending if Ganondorf has powerful enough magic to cause enough damage to Kefka. While Kefka cant last forever under constant strain, Ganondorf can. I would say Ganondorf could win due to sheer endurance. Even if he were destroyed he could reform.
IIRC Doom was dark magic in the FF-verse.
Kefka can cast Holy.
And Life 3 is auto life, If Kefka dies (doubt it) he will automatically revive, casting it again and so on.
“IIRC Doom was dark magic in the FF-verse.”
It’s a status magic and it is a dark magic in FF6, dark magic is just the type of magic, it’s not dark elemental.
Yes, there is Holy magic in FF. But Would Kefka use it first off in a fight? even so, it wouldn’t cause major damage to Ganondorf as he usually needs a one-two punch from two different things.
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It obviously doesn’t always work or isn’t always on (as Kefka can still die). Even so, those that use revives usually end up with only a fraction of their health/power.
So I guess Kefka would have to Petrify each and one of Ganon’s soul and protect them from being released.
Will Ganon be able to travel to know that his souls are sealed in the X-zone?
And to what degree can Ganon travel through dimensions, because I recall he gets weaker if he splits his soul (he will be splitting his powers) can he travel naturally or does he require power to do so.
Petrify… as soul…
Please take a moment to realize what yous said there before continuing.
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Now, lets continue.
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It would have been better if you had said something other than souls as that was plain ridiculous, sorry to say. But, even so, while I’m not certain Ganon can release his other parts he can release himself with relative ease.
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“He gets weaker if he splits his soul (he will be splitting his powers) can he travel naturally or does he require power to do so.”
I believe that hasn’t been stated here and isn’t exactly relevant to traveling dimensions unless your talking about the one he sent to the light world.
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He gave power to his puppet Zant and he was still at his highest and most formidable power. created the likes of Dark Link and ressurected ancient creatures.
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In TP he travels among the dimensions by opening those large portals. While I’m unsure of if it took power or not to open them I’m certain it was of little bother to him as during his boss fight as Beast Ganon he was using portals on the fly with no sign of slowing down.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoDN2hlP7gs
Not only does this show him teleporting with ease and rather quickly, but Beast ganon casually smashes through giant stone pillars as if they were nothing and shows no sign of loosing momentum.
“because I recall he gets weaker if he splits his soul (he will be splitting his powers) ”
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And where, pray tell, is your evidence of that?
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“can he travel naturally or does he require power to do so.”
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His own power manages just fine so long as there isn’t a seal preventing him from entering the other dimension in question.
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And how the hell do you have degrees of traviling through dimensions? What does that mean? Do you think he goes only half way then turns around?
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Flat out simply, Ganondorf goes where he likes to go. In Twilight Princess Ganondorf entered Hyrule from the Twilight Realm without using the Mirror of Twilight; the only known bridge between these dimensions. His own power got him through two realms that are seperated by realities, and he didn’t take the only door. In WW he broke through the Seven Sages’ seal, killed them, burned the country to the ground and then was only stopped because the gods decided to flood the world. In LttP he sent a sliver of his soul straight through a seal of increadible power that was designed to prevent him from doing just that, and by the end of the game he was mere foot steps away from crossing dimensions with the Triforce and taking over the world. In FSA he casually opens up rifts in reality between his dimension and the normal dimension. In OoT he casually removes one of his minions to between dimensions; forever lost in a place that doesn’t truely exist.
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Why do you think that dimensional transportation is diffucult for him when every time they imprison him in one it is with a big ass sealing spell conjured by a collection of the greatest magicians in the country? Hell, his minions Onix and Veran are both creatured that were summoned forth from Ganon’s personal dimesions. … That is what the Dark World is you know? It is his Makai; his personal world. It is his personal dimension from which he wages war on Hyrule.
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The only reason why dimensions are any difficulty to him is because the sealing spells the Sages cast on them. Cause that is how demons are taken care of in the Zeldaverse; they are thrown into another dimension and then locked away. Thus far, no seal has held Ganon forever. I don’t think Kefka even knows a single sealing spell either. Sure he can banish him, but he can’t stop him from coming back.
Its extremely hard to find a proper video, but this will do.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=2upGthQomYE
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This shows the Vanish/Doom bug. That little Grim Reaper? Its supposed to be holding an exact copy of the enemy portrait, only greyed out, signifying its soul (not shown because of vanish spell). The Doom spell makes Death claim the target’s soul. One shot kill.
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Kefka can use this spell. Kefka wins.
Just to clarify, magic in FF6 comes from the Warring Triad. Ancient Humans and Espers were granted the power, but humans eventually lost it.
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All magic in LoZ comes from the Goddesses. Ganondorf gained his magic from the Triforce Of Power, which was made by the Goddesses.
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Both systems are pretty damn similar.
First off, that’s a bug in game… which cannot be used by Kefka.
Two, the Doom spell is infamous for it’s ability to miss it’s targets.
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Even when the player used Doom on a visible enemy it was not carrying any sort of portriat of any sort.
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Also, is it signifying it’s soul because you think/say so? or is it provable ingame or in some other way?
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By far this is the best evidence for Kefka though.
“I believe that hasn’t been stated here and isn’t exactly relevant to traveling dimensions unless your talking about the one he sent to the light world.”
Well, I asked of this many times, if Ganon can split his soul, does it half his power?
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Can his soul fly out of his body if it was to be stoned?
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“Petrify… as soul…”
No, petrify as body, but I guess Ganon doesn’t need one.
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I also would like to know if Holy is a capable element against Ganon?
“This shows the Vanish/Doom bug. That little Grim Reaper? Its supposed to be holding an exact copy of the enemy portrait, only greyed out, signifying its soul (not shown because of vanish spell). The Doom spell makes Death claim the target’s soul. One shot kill.”
For the fourth time, we need textual proof from the manual/game/creators, etc…
I don’t see how a picture of someone=that persons soul.
Are we basing debates off of superstition now?
“Well, I asked of this many times, if Ganon can split his soul, does it half his power?”
And we’ve answered many times. No. It does nothing to his power. He still retains the same power.
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“Can his soul fly out of his body if it was to be stoned”
Why not? If it traveled through a seal designed to hold it in, and then through dimensions without a problem, I don’t see the issue here.
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“I also would like to know if Holy is a capable element against Ganon?”
Well, sure, but so are the seals used to seal him. And the Master Sword. And the Light Arrows. And the Silver Arrows. But, look where those got the people who used them.
@Pooperscooper
Not the best example at the end there.
“All magic in LoZ comes from the Goddesses. Ganondorf gained his magic from the Triforce Of Power, which was made by the Goddesses.”
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Um… No.
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Some of the magic in the Zeldaverse is their magic, but most of the magic is inherant abilities of the people.
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Hylians are esplecially gifted in magic.
Gerudo used dark scorcerors.
Twili used Shadow magic.
Fire and Ice Arrows are found randomly or with Fairy folk.
Light Arrows are gifts from teh gods.
Witches make their magic from natural ingredients.
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In fact the ONLY magic that is explicately from the Goddesses is the Triforce. Notably that is the ONLY magic that the other gods were forbidden to use. No god could weild the Triforce; that was kind of a MAJOR PLOT POINT in Skyward Sword. It is the very reason why Zelda exists. Outside of the Triforce magic though there is no such restriction.
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And besides, the Goddesses are on a whole nother level than the Triad. The Triad, at best, are world rulers; the Goddesses built reality. Their magic is leagues beyond theirs. One goddess, ONE of them, created physics. One of them created matter. One of them created life. They are the top of the panthoen so much so that they casually created deities during the begining of the world and time and space.
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Oh, and Ganondorf was using dark magic long before he had the Triforce of Power. He flat out killed the Deku Tree (a minor god), resurected the King Dodongo, and nearly killed Lord Jabu Jabu (another minor god), and could cast energy balls from his hands before he even touched the Triforce of Power. In FSA, another game where he held no peice of the Triforce, he was casually banishing people into his realm; across the dimensional divide. He could conjure energy balls from the air, turn invisable, and cast lightning from his trident. In Oracles (another game where he had no triforce part) he could teleport and confuse Link (reversed controls). And if we are going by the “oh he didn’t REALLY have the Triforce in LttP; it was in the other room” then he could split his soul and send it across dimensions, be in two places at once, cast transdimensional spells, conjure firebats, shoot lightning, transform himself, and teleport.
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WHERE THE HELL DO YOU GET THE IDEA THAT ALL HIS MAGIC COMES FROM THE TRIFORCE!?
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“I also would like to know if Holy is a capable element against Ganon?”
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Does Holy have a bonus against “evil” or “demonic” types? If yes, then yes, if no, then not.
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In the Zeldaverse “Holy” and “divine” does not automatically imply “anti-evil” or “anti-demon”. Usually it does, but not always. You need an “anti-evil/anti-demon” weapon to really put the hurt on against Ganon.
Just in case this was ignored before.
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Ganondorf gets to have the Triforce. The Triforce says at the ending of ALttP:
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“But now you have totally destroyed Ganon. His Dark World will vanish. The Triforce is waiting for a new owner. Its Golden Power is in your hands… Now touch it with a wish in your heart.”
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Thus, Ganondorf owned the Triforce throughout the game.
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I boldfaced the important part, meaning Ganondorf was the owner of the Triforce originally.
@all
So my posts #230 247, 248 delineate what’s being said now, had been supported by others, notably OA, and we are still questioning LoZ canon?
I’d wonder if it’s because i’m “new” lol
“I think it is safe to say that he has some beefy magical protection.”
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you guys were just saying that ganondorf’s magic and kefka’s magic were two diffrent types of magics. so can you guys prove that he is resistant to kefka’s magic?
“Petrify… as soul…
Please take a moment to realize what yous said there before continuing.”
As stupid as that is, that’s what him and Wingedlion have been saying for a while now.
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“Can his soul fly out of his body if it was to be stoned?”
I find it funny that you think stone is going to hold the soul of a guy that makes dimensional travel (as well as said dimensions) his bitch, better then the dimensions and seals he’s Hudini’d his way out of.
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“I also would like to know if Holy is a capable element against Ganon?”
No. Holy=/=evil’s bane.
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“you guys were just saying that ganondorf’s magic and kefka’s magic were two diffrent types of magics. so can you guys prove that he is resistant to kefka’s magic?”
Mmmmkay…….so you think a magic fireball or something from Kefka is going to hurt Ganondorf…..simply because it came from a guy that draws his magic from a different source than Ganondorf? That’s funny, Ganondorf has completely tanked being burned and having his tower destroyed (with him in it) by Valoo, who is a deity to the Rito people. He tanked godly fire. I’m sure Kefka’s fire would be just as useless. I only used fire magic as an example by the way.
Well kefka has the power of the espers and the warring triad right? How do they stack against the goddesses and all the demigods. They’ve thrown everything including the kitchen sink against G and he asks for more. Demigods? Dead. Evil’s bane light sword to the chest? Tickles. Seven uber mages smacking him with magics? Yawn
Also funny how i’m pro LoZ here but against it in the cloud vs link thread lol
Then there’s the whole thing where Ganondorf can just send Kefka into the Dark World, where he’ll become a beast under Ganondorf’s control.
Well, Kefka is nor any of those mages, Kefka is the God of Magic, the scale of his magic attacks are very high compare to to what Ganon has tanked.
Kefka won’t just attack with fire, he has non-elemental magic, Ultima for example.
Doom has always said to be an instant kill magic, and many times represented by the Grim Reaper taking the targets soul.
finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Grim_Reaper
Read all the FF versions of the reaper, it is all represented by the reaper and it’s always has to do with the soul.
“Well, Kefka is nor any of those mages, Kefka is the God of Magic”
A God of Magic who was beaten by a bunch of magic users…….
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“the scale of his magic attacks are very high compare to to what Ganon has tanked.”
He’ll tank whatever Kefka throws out too.
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“Doom has always said to be an instant kill magic, and many times represented by the Grim Reaper taking the targets soul.
finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Grim_Reaper
Read all the FF versions of the reaper, it is all represented by the reaper and it’s always has to do with the soul.”
I’m not reading ALL the versions, the only one that matters here is the FF6 version. Stop using shit from other FF’s already, it’s getting annoying. Also, we’ve established that Ganondorf’s soul is leaps and bounds more powerful then any soul in FF6. What’s stopping Ganondorf from babyshaking that reaper before it TRYS to take his soul (like you’re assuming it would)?
“He’ll tank whatever Kefka throws out too.”
You have to show me what he can tank first.
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“A God of Magic who was beaten by a bunch of magic users…….”
Those magic users (I say only one) where at his level of magic, a but lower but that’s why a group prevails, in other words, those “magic users” will make a formidable opponent for Ganon too.
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“I’m not reading ALL the versions, the only one that matters here is the FF6 version.”
Don’t bother brow, it’s just that all the other versions have their representation of the reaper and it’s all a soul attack, thus showing that Square treats Doom, Death or whatever it’s called as the same spiritual attack.
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“Also, we’ve established that Ganondorf’s soul is leaps and bounds more powerful then any soul in FF6. What’s stopping Ganondorf from babyshaking that reaper before it TRYS to take his soul (like you’re assuming it would)?”
Got proof that Ganon can’t be neutralize by the reaper?
I say he can be, now you show me anything that makes Ganon’s soul in a higher superiority than that of the Grim Reaper.
Does Ganon ever say something like “Not even Death itself can banish my soul forever”.
Didn’t I say that Ganondorf’s soul form tanked a light/darkness attack from a deity-slaying artifact?
Just to clear it up, the scenario shouldn’t be considered as a feat.
It was just for fun to have a cool scenario.
Please don actually consider it a feat.
@zolanius
Yep. He tanked a lot in that encounter lol
@ OA, Proto
Willing to help cloud vs link? I’ve just about given up against british. Oh well
“Didn’t I say that Ganondorf’s soul form tanked a light/darkness attack from a deity-slaying artifact?”
Doesn’t sound like an attack that can e compared to that of Kefka, because I haven’t seen it yet.
For example, what could be a simple sword slash in God of War could be a deity killer in Tomb Raider.
You do know Kefka can spam high level magic such as Ultima, wish can be life wiping?
And that he has powers of wich can rearrange continents?
FF6′s Grim Reaper can’t be compared or interchanged with the Grim Reaper everybody is accustomed to.
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Also, banishing Ganondorf will be next to useless as he can just travel through dimensions to get back to Kefka. The only reason it took him so long to do so in the LoZ games is because Ganondorf was always severely weakened and then sealed. Kefka has no way of weakening Ganondorf and banishing is not the same thing as sealing. Sealing always prevented Ganondorf from leaving a dimension, almost like a lock, until Ganondorf’s power grew back and he essentially “breaks the lock” so to speak. Like I said, at best Kefka can only banish, not seal.
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As for things his body and soul have tanked……
www.youtube.com/v/Kvc8Mu3kkJ8
Ganondorf uses his power (while being severly weakened, by the way) to destroy his own castle.
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www.youtube.com/v/cFHT4Y6-UMk
Ganondorf survives being crushed by his own castle, creates a barrier of fire to prevent Link and Zelda’s escape, turns into Ganon (the Dark Beast), and is only weakened just enough to be sealed into the Sacred Realm.
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www.youtube.com/v/rQz0KNq0bU8
(4:25-4:40)
Ganondorf specifically states that he can’t be defeated by a weapon that can’t strike down evil.
(6:15-6:40)
Ganondorf survives being blasted with fire from Valoo (a deity) without even the smallest scratch as proven in Ganondorf’s next appearence.
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www.youtube.com/v/BVYggDnaJgY
(1:25-3:00)
Ganondorf survives his own execution, breaks his shackles using raw strength, and then vaporizes the Water Sage with a single punch. I’ll reapeat that last part…..HE VAPORIZED THE WATER SAGE WITH A SINGLE PUNCH.
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www.youtube.com/v/XB7r6XDD6Vg
(0:15-1:00)
Ganondorf’s physical body is desintigrated but he rebuilds a new body very quickly from literally nothing.
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www.youtube.com/v/SiyuoF9mixI
(1:00-3:00)
Ganondorf survives having his soul directly attacked by Midna using the full power of the Fused Shadows, overpowers Midna, survives Hyrule Castle blowing up around him, rebuilt his body, teleported all the way from Hyrule Castle to the Eldin Province while summoning his horse out of nowhere, and then crushed a piece of the Fused Shadows with one hand. Keep in mind that Midna used that same power from the Fused Shadows to destroy Ganondorf’s castle sized barrier. Ganondorf completely tanked everything that happened there.
@PrimusxPilus:
“Willing to help cloud vs link? I’ve just about given up against british. Oh well”
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Nah. There’s no point. Cloud won, the thread is just being beaten like a dead horse.
@Negative Zero:
“Ganondorf specifically states that he can’t be defeated by a weapon that can’t strike down evil.”
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Unless Ganondorf is omniscient, I would take that statement with a grain of salt. I’m also curious about something. Demise was killed by being crushed. I am curious if Ganondorf could also be killed by being crushed.
Err…. Perhaps I should have cleared this up earlier….
I only ever intended Ganon to have the Triforce of Power…. Sorry I didn’t make that clear…
Or am I sorry?
@proto
They didn’t get the memo. I tried to be civil and now omegami jumped in without reading previous posts it seems lol. I just hate them thinking they’ve won. Oh well
@NZ
While I agree kefka can’t put him down permanently, can G end him? I don’t know kefka….
Past fifty comments bro lol
@Proto
But the magic of the ENTIRE Triforce was aiding in crushing Demise.
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@Xeno
Too late, this is way past 50 comments to start changing your scenario now.
THEN BY ALL MEANS KEEP ARGUING OVER WHETER OR NOT IT’S STANDARD EQUIPMENT xD
@Prime
Ganondorf should be able to put Kefka down everntually.
Were you unaware that he had the full Triforce at one point, Xeno?
*eventually
“I am curious if Ganondorf could also be killed by being crushed.”
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A castle fell on him in OoT. He survived. In WW the entire world flooded to seal him away. He survived.
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Notably, those two feats belong to the same incarnation of Ganon.
@Negative Zero:
“But the magic of the ENTIRE Triforce was aiding in crushing Demise.”
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Interesting point.
“While I agree kefka can’t put him down permanently, can G end him? I don’t know kefka…. ”
Well, Doom was proven to strike the soul and Kefka has enough Holy and non elemental magic to hurt Ganon (I still haven’t being directed to what Ganon can camp so I don’t know).
There is also Stop, unless Ganon shows immunity
to time, then this can also be used against him, works in a perfect combo with Doom.
“Ganondorf should be able to put Kefka down everntually.”
How?
May I recall that Kefka can’t be banned to other dimensions.
Is it me or is Ganondorf kind of like Wolverine. I mean they for the most part only win matches because they are unkillable and that’s pretty all that keeps them in the match. I mean Ganondorf can’t be killed by Villains from what it appears because of that evil’s bane bull shit. Before I get attacked by Zelda fans I hate Kefka. I think he’s a pedo-clown rapist. I mean look at how he looks at Terra in Dissidia.
“Is it me or is Ganondorf kind of like Wolverine”
Wolverine regenerates from his skeleton, not from his soul.
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“I mean Ganondorf can’t be killed by Villains from what it appears because of that evil’s bane bull shit.”
He seems susceptible to some of the stated FF magics unless stated other wise.
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“I think he’s a pedo-clown rapist. I mean look at how he looks at Terra in Dissidia.”
LOL, so true, who knows what he did to her when she was enslaved by the slave crown.
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And I would also like to show some evidence of what Kefka is capable of, I haven’t finished FF6 nor am I intending to anytime soon.
I looked up at what Kefka can do and it said that his has exploited the abilities of reality warping and can Banish.
@The King of Heroes:
“Before I get attacked by Zelda fans I hate Kefka. I think he’s a pedo-clown rapist. I mean look at how he looks at Terra in Dissidia.”
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Have you seen Kefka’s profile at OBD? This is his image.
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outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/file/view/ff6kefka-748268.jpg/125154861/ff6kefka-748268.jpg
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Below his image it says: “This is one clown you don’t want coming to your child’s birthday party.”-
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If that means it’s because Kefka can kill people and stuff, um, that should be the least of any parents’ worries.
I said it before, I’ll say it again now.
FF6 souls and Zelda game souls are NOT compatible with each other due to very discerning differences.
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Therefore, we cannot assume Doom will affect Ganondorf at all.
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@OMEGAMI
Please provide proof that he cannot be banned to other dimensions.
“May I recall that Kefka can’t be banned to other dimensions.”
Because? When are you going to start posting evidence for the things you claim?
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“He seems susceptible to some of the stated FF magics unless stated other wise.”
Every non-evil’s bane spell that does absolutely nothing to Ganondorf would say otherwise…..
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“I looked up at what Kefka can do and it said that his has exploited the abilities of reality warping and can Banish.”
So you don’t even know for sure then what you’ve been claiming?
Might as well post this again since OMEGAMI completely ignored it….
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“FF6′s Grim Reaper can’t be compared or interchanged with the Grim Reaper everybody is accustomed to.
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Also, banishing Ganondorf will be next to useless as he can just travel through dimensions to get back to Kefka. The only reason it took him so long to do so in the LoZ games is because Ganondorf was always severely weakened and then sealed. Kefka has no way of weakening Ganondorf and banishing is not the same thing as sealing. Sealing always prevented Ganondorf from leaving a dimension, almost like a lock, until Ganondorf’s power grew back and he essentially “breaks the lock” so to speak. Like I said, at best Kefka can only banish, not seal.
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As for things his body and soul have tanked……
www.youtube.com/v/Kvc8Mu3kkJ8
Ganondorf uses his power (while being severly weakened, by the way) to destroy his own castle.
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www.youtube.com/v/cFHT4Y6-UMk
Ganondorf survives being crushed by his own castle, creates a barrier of fire to prevent Link and Zelda’s escape, turns into Ganon (the Dark Beast), and is only weakened just enough to be sealed into the Sacred Realm.
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www.youtube.com/v/rQz0KNq0bU8
(4:25-4:40)
Ganondorf specifically states that he can’t be defeated by a weapon that can’t strike down evil.
(6:15-6:40)
Ganondorf survives being blasted with fire from Valoo (a deity) without even the smallest scratch as proven in Ganondorf’s next appearence.
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www.youtube.com/v/BVYggDnaJgY
(1:25-3:00)
Ganondorf survives his own execution, breaks his shackles using raw strength, and then vaporizes the Water Sage with a single punch. I’ll reapeat that last part…..HE VAPORIZED THE WATER SAGE WITH A SINGLE PUNCH.
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www.youtube.com/v/XB7r6XDD6Vg
(0:15-1:00)
Ganondorf’s physical body is desintigrated but he rebuilds a new body very quickly from literally nothing.
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www.youtube.com/v/SiyuoF9mixI
(1:00-3:00)
Ganondorf survives having his soul directly attacked by Midna using the full power of the Fused Shadows, overpowers Midna, survives Hyrule Castle blowing up around him, rebuilt his body, teleported all the way from Hyrule Castle to the Eldin Province while summoning his horse out of nowhere, and then crushed a piece of the Fused Shadows with one hand. Keep in mind that Midna used that same power from the Fused Shadows to destroy Ganondorf’s castle sized barrier. Ganondorf completely tanked everything that happened there.”
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Off topic, but when are you going to be able to space properly again? I mean with having to put – or something similar to space comments?
The game developers gave Kefka a “Ribbon”, this can also be seen in game when you cast X-Zone (X-Zone is stated to open a gate to another dimension) and the other one shot magics but nothing works.
Here is what I found of what I was missing from Kefka.
finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Kefka_Palazzo
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“Might as well post this again since OMEGAMI completely ignored it….”
I don’t know what you mean?
If it was for my absence, I apologies, but I wasn’t at the time you posted.
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“Ganondorf survives being crushed by his own castle”
Doesn’t seem to equal to what Kefka can ditch out.
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“Ganondorf survives being blasted with fire from Valoo (a deity) without even the smallest scratch as proven in Ganondorf’s next appearence.”
Yeah I played that game a few years ago, good times.
That Fire doesn’t seem to look that devasting compared to “Meteor” or “Ultima” (Life wiping, continent deforming).
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“HE VAPORIZED THE WATER SAGE WITH A SINGLE PUNCH.”
Well, those sages don’t even look tangible or at least have a proper body (with organs and bones), it probably just disintegrate as it died after Ganon hit it.
And I don’t see how this one punch is going to go up against a god of magic, who has telekinesis far more powerful as shown in the Wiki.
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“Ganondorf’s physical body is desintigrated but he rebuilds a new body very quickly from literally nothing.”
I have already adopted the fact that Ganon is physically immortal.
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“Ganondorf survives having his soul directly attacked by Midna using the full power of the Fused Shadows”
Just how powerful was that?
Cause I can say that Holy magic from Kefka can surpass that.
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“Off topic, but when are you going to be able to space properly again? I mean with having to put – or something similar to space comments?”
Are you asking me?
But I do, I even done it in this comment.
I said it before, I’ll say it again now.
FF6 souls and Zelda game souls are NOT compatible with each other due to very discerning differences.
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Therefore, we cannot assume Doom will affect Ganondorf at all.
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@OMEGAMI
Please provide proof that he cannot be banned to other dimensions.
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Just because he can open a portal to the X-Dimension doesn’t mean he can open a portal BACK.
“FF6′s Grim Reaper can’t be compared or interchanged with the Grim Reaper everybody is accustomed to.”
I don’t see a difference, it snatches peoples soul, it’s a skeleton with a cloak and a scythe, their is nothing stating it’s different.
And Ganon is still a soul, may not be a soul from FF, but the Grim Reaper banishes souls, Hyrule can have souls of whatever power they wan’t, I still don’t see anything saying that they are immune to the Reaper and I still don’t see anything from Ganon that says he is immune to the Reaper.
“Just how powerful was that?”
I’ve already stated, unless my internet is messing up, that the Fused Shadows threaten the existence of deities. <_<
@OMEAMI
Just because it looks like the Grim reaper doesn’t mean it is, there are many different versions of Grim Reaper anyways.
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And if the souls in Zelda are not similar to the souls in FF then they are different. You cannot assume that Doom can affect a different type of Soul because it’s only used against one type unless you can find something strikingly similar to Zelda souls in FF.
FF6 Grim Reaper=/=all Grim Reapers.
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What is it with you and the constant interchanging?
“vaporizes the Water Sage with a single punch.”
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He isn’t vaporized, he’s disintegrated and/or dies-then-disintegrates.
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“Ganondorf’s physical body is desintigrated but he rebuilds a new body very quickly from literally nothing.”
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Gaaaa. Stop saying that. He reformed his twilight particles, or whatever was pushed out of Zelda.
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Ganondorf is able to reform his body whenever one form gets killed, but to actually kill him completely Evil’s Bane needs to be used. Or something that absolutely removes him from existence (such as balefire). As far as I know, Kefka does not have that (if he does, the “anti-evil” aspect of his Holy magic needs to be displayed).
“Or something that absolutely removes him from existence (such as balefire).”
It’s impossible to tell, but X-Zone may or may not be this. It’s part of a series of spells across the entire FF multiverse dealing with the Void (which we know is canon across the entire verse because of Gilgamesh, who does in fact put in an appearance in the Colisseum in FF6). The problem is sometimes the Void is treated as another dimension, and sometimes it’s treated as a Sword of Truth-style ‘world of nothingess’ that erases whatever enters from existence (but Gilgamesh can somehow still survive. Don’t ask me, I don’t write it). The problem is it’s impossible to tell which version of the Void FF6 uses, since X-Zone is the only thing that has anything whatsoever to do with it (whereas in other FFs (particularly 5) it’s a major plot point).
Apparently it’s also sometimes just a physical place in the world (requiring teleportation to return from, instead of interdimensional travel), a la FF13-2. However, again, we can’t determine if it’s that either.
So… long story short, a lot of maybes that I, at least, have no idea how to determine.
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“What is it with you and the constant interchanging?”
To be fair to OMEGAMI, it’s not entirely unprecedented. There are a number of things that are canonically the same thing across the whole FFverse, or at least most of it (such as the previously-mentioned Void and Gilgamesh). Chocobos are another good example. He’s just extrapolating a bit.
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As for the Holy thing, Holy deals extra damage to enemies associated with the ‘Dark’ type. Make of that what you will.
“Just because it looks like the Grim reaper doesn’t mean it is”
So when Square made a skeleton in cloak, with a scythe, is summoned by a spell named Doom or Death and it is said to attack or claim the souls, they weren’t intending to recreate the Grim Reaper.
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“there are many different versions of Grim Reaper anyways.”
And all of them make souls their bitch.
The Grim in FF6 makes contact with the souls, thus instantly killing the target, how does this make it different from the most common Grim Reaper?
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“And if the souls in Zelda are not similar to the souls in FF then they are different.”
They are different, but there is no proof that this makes them immune to the Grim Reaper, just that they are different compared to others.
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“You cannot assume that Doom can affect a different type of Soul because it’s only used against one type”
The souls the Grim Reaper was collecting where nothing more but souls, Hyrule can have whatever soul they wan’t, it can talk, move and have powers but it says nowhere that they are Grim Reaper proof.
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“unless you can find something strikingly similar to Zelda souls in FF.”
Similar as in being souls and not being Grim Proof.
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“FF6 Grim Reaper=/=all Grim Reapers.”
Yet it does the same job as all the other Grims, it’s there with it’s cloak and skeletal body, collecting souls just like any other Grim, I don’t see the difference and I don’t see anything that said that it’s not the same Grim as the other FF or Universes.
Show me how different it is, because I don’t see it.
@Omegami
First off, you CANNOT assume it can affect other types of souls. It has not been tested ingame. Because FF6 souls are tangible and can be affected physically they are vastly different to the one’s in Zelda.
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It’s like the compatibility issue with both their magic, because one is different than the other we cannot assume they have protection against certain magic spells that each other has unless stated otherwise.
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Unless you want to make everything compatible, in which case Kefka gets trapped in Ganon’s barriers and cant escape, Ganondorf’s soul cannot be assumed to be affected by Doom whether it’s the Grim reaper or not.
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And again, different Grim’s can do different things in different realms, but cant neccisarily do it in another.
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I already went through this discussion before in another thread. It works, Ganondorf’s soul is not compatible with what the Doom spell takes care of and cannot be assumed to affect him.
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You cant say it’s the same as other Grims either as other grims can affect other souls and do different things.
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“I don’t see the difference and I don’t see anything that said that it’s not the same Grim as the other FF or Universes.”
I don’t see anything that says it’s the same one from other incarnations of the Grim Reaper.
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Example… Billy and Mandy’s Grim Reaper.
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While this grim reaper is ridiculous, it’s got similar traits to other Grim Reapers, but one’s that they do NOT share.
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I’ll say it again, you CANNOT assume that the FF6 ‘Grim’ can affect the souls of a whole new universe with different prestiques for souls
“Because FF6 souls are tangible and can be affected physically they are vastly different to the one’s in Zelda.”
The soul the Grim pulls out in FF don’t look tangible, to him maybe, but where do you come with the souls not being intangible.
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“Ganondorf’s soul is not compatible with what the Doom spell takes care of and cannot be assumed to affect him.”
The Doom spell takes care of souls, it does not matter what kind of soul Ganon is, if it can talk, attack, or warp, it has no evidence that the Grim Reaper can snatch it.
It’s not my fault that there is no evidence of a Grim Reaper trying to take Ganon, but if he doesn’t have them, then we can assume it works.
Think of this, in FF6 there is a rat, a simple rodent just like many other animals you can find in real life and the wilds of Hyrule, the Grim comes and takes their soul, I see no limits besides Items and magic that prevent Doom.
How can you assume it is different from others if it’s doing the same thing, is it because it’s FF?
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“While this grim reaper is ridiculous, it’s got similar traits to other Grim Reapers, but one’s that they do NOT share.”
Similar traits as in the domain of souls, different traits as in different color or scythe.
those differences does not eradicate their effectiveness of capturing souls unless that Grim shows to be handicapped to do so.
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“And again, different Grim’s can do different things in different realms, but cant neccisarily do it in another.”
The things that stop a Grim from taking a soul would be, if said soul from a universe is stated to be Grim proof, or if Said Grim is stated to be handicapped among entering another universe.
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Now tell me, is Chakra compatible against another element like Ki?
The Souls are proven to be tangible. Ghosts, being called souls in-game, are tangible and able to be hurt physically.
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“It’s not my fault that there is no evidence of a Grim Reaper trying to take Ganon, but if he doesn’t have them, then we can assume it works.
Think of this, in FF6 there is a rat, a simple rodent just like many other animals you can find in real life and the wilds of Hyrule, the Grim comes and takes their soul, I see no limits besides Items and magic that prevent Doom.”
That, sir, is a No Limits Fallacy. souls are not Compatible in both verses and therefore a soul attack cant be assumed to work unless it’s been proven to work on Zelda type souls.
Besides, there aren’t giant man-eating rats in Zelda from what I can remember.
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“The things that stop a Grim from taking a soul would be, if said soul from a universe is stated to be Grim proof”
The Final Fantasy grim cant be assumed to be similar to another verse’s Grim. You even said that it REPRESENTS a Grim Reaper, it does not make it one.
Double post, my bad.
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I don’t know Chakra and Ki well enough to put up an arguement on it.
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Also, Ganondorf has had his soul attack by a powerful Evil’s Bane weapon, a Spiritual entity from the Twilight Realm, and has been locked away I don’t know how many times. (whether or not this was his soul being locked away I’m not certain)
Something to think about is that Ganondorf did die at his execution. It was a success, and he was impaled by a sword of light. However, it is my belief that the Triforce of Power brought him back, and was responsible for his immortality, physical or otherwise. Would it not stand to reason that because of this, Ganondorf’s soul cannot be tampered with, let alone be “reaped” by whatever handles souls when they are to pass?
“He isn’t vaporized, he’s disintegrated and/or dies-then-disintegrates.”
Doesn’t change the fact that the sage was literally gone after that punch.
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“Gaaaa. Stop saying that. He reformed his twilight particles, or whatever was pushed out of Zelda.”
I don’t recall the Twilight particles coming back together. I thought they flew off and then a totally seperate black mass appeared on the floor. I haven’t watch the video in a while though.
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“So when Square made a skeleton in cloak, with a scythe, is summoned by a spell named Doom or Death and it is said to attack or claim the souls, they weren’t intending to recreate the Grim Reaper.”
So it’s not even CALLED a Grim Reaper in the game, is it?
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Let’s end this right now. Ganondorf traps the wannabe Grim Reaper in his barriers or a Crystal Prison spell. There, target neutralized. No proff that it can teleport past magic barriers right?