Here we have two master assassins going up against the king of Gondor!
For this battle Altair and Ezio are teaming up and have been told Aragorn is a templar and must be stopped. Aragorn is aware of the fact someone will try and kill him but he has no idea who.
They will have to make their way through Minis Tirith in order to kill him.
Altair will be from Assassin’s Creed I, whilst Ezio will be the Revelations version. Both characters will have their standard loadouts, Ezio will have datura bombs, smoke screen bomb and a cherry bomb.
One condition of the match is that neither assassin’s can use ranged equipment to kill Aragorn they must use their blade, sword, dagger, etc.
Aragorn is in the throne room throughout the battle.
Will the two assassins prevail?
Okay I just wanted proof of the existence of them
“”Can suddenly beat people who win consistently against kings who do consider them high priority targets is hilarious.”"
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you see here is the thing.
that is not what i am saying. i am not even saying anything similar to that. i have not even said i think aragorn wins this. these are all things you have decided i am saying because you are not paying attention to what i AM saying properly.
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what i AM saying, is that it will be exceptionally hard for them, for various reasons, such as having no allies, having no resources of any kind other than what is on their person, looking foreign in a monoethnic society, not speaking adunaic or sindarin, having obvious accents even after learning these languages, trying to kill a high visibility figure who is adored by his people, who has the adoration and approbation of the civilians, the military, and the aristocracy, in a land they know literally nothing about, that is currently on high alert because they are at war with people the assasins know nothing about, and cannot communicate with, and as such will have trouble allying with.
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do you understand? i am saying it will be hard for them. not impossible. i am not saying they will magically fail because of a theory i have which is to be frank nothing but common sense and a very, very basic understanding of how states work. i am saying that they will not have it easy, and the odds are stacked steeply against them, once you take the time to think about the scenario
has anyone here read the nightangel trilogy?
if so do you think durzo blint vs artemis entreri would be a good match?
“prove to me this is not true. oh wait. you cannot. but this does not mean the statement above is not manifestly untrue. all that need exist for something unstated to be explicitly untrue is evidence that it is untrue.”
I can’t prove it is untrue, however you cannot provide any feats for his fecal matter whatsoever, which means you cannot say either way whether it would matter or not.
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And the suggester said everyone was speaking English, so I think it’d be somewhat relevant that Ezio and Altair spoke English.
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Because you cannot derive feats from “common sense”, sadly, and are assuming everyone will break CIS for “common sense”.
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Are you proposing that unless they are, their every action for whatever period of time can be seen? That’s No-Limits Fallacy.
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You need to provide proof for facts like the sumerians having spy networks, before saying them and expecting me to suddenly believe them.
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The fact is, your using inference which feats cannot be derived from, against a source feats can be derived from. The difference is you can say crap like “But they automatically know this because blah blah blah,” and not have to back it up. Why? No feats saying they don’t!
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Get out of your daydream where your word is law, and provide evidence of these things.
@NKB
It has potential, but more thought would be necessary before we can find out if the match has potential to have potential, JIC.
@Everyone else
This match scares me, its not the worst scare I got because I had worse, but it still scares me.
This IS a debate. A place where facts are debated. Whether you are arguing for Aragorn or not, anything you say can and will be debated. While you are saying things that make things harder for the assassins, I am suggesting their reactions to said situations. That is all.
@Dr. Doctor
Do I even know how to be aware of the body count, and its not even a formal group fight or universe fight going on?
” While you are saying things that make things harder for the assassins, I am suggesting their reactions to said situations. That is all.”
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and i am suggesting logical reactions to the presence of assasins. sources on sumer are hard to come by at 5am outside of the history section of a decent university library. even more so for one not at university anymore. talking english is entirely irrelevant, because the OP did *not* say everyone can talk it, only that ezio and altair can talk it. they still need to learn adunaic or sindarin. preferably both. nothing in aragorns character suggests he has an aversion to espionage. quite the opposite. he wrests the palantir from the control of sauron and uses it to effect. not only is he personally spying on things in this act, he is succesfully engaging in psych-warfare against a demigod. so CIS is not in play.
you state scryers can only predict predictable events. i agree. indeed it is practically a tautology. but the way in which you state it implies that somehow ezio and altair might be unpredictable to one who can predict predictable events. how you get from my pointing this out to my suggesting every scryer can predict everything forever is your problem, not mine.
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as to evidence…i have humans and states. aragorn is a humand, gondor a state. humans lie, cheat and swindle as best they can, whilst trying to winnow the truth out of all the other swindlers and cheats and society does the exact same thing on a larger scale. we are hard wired to hide the truth when we can get away with it. states even more so, being a large collection of humans. states essentially run on coercing truth from its subjects whilst hiding truths from everyone. they coerce the truth of an individuals income, so they can take their taxes and spend them on things they do not let the individual see, because “state secrets”. they take resources from the land and sea, or from other states, lying and swindling to make the best deal for themselves. this is all entirely natural for a state or a person to do. to suppose any person or state would not engage in this behaviour is infact to suppose against the innate character both of humans and of groups of humans-states.
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tolkien might never expound on the mechanics of the gondorian state, btu he does nto need to. gondorians are humans, and humans have behaviours. gondor is a state/society made up of humans, and as such will have behaviours matching up to a state built up of humans and human-behaviours.
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this, to you, might seem a rediculous extrapolation from two simple facts, but it really shouldnt be, considering the proof of this extrapolation is in very nearly every interaction you will ever have with people and whatever government manages the state you are from. it doesnt need to be explicit because it is so implicitly true we do not even notice it, generally speaking, we simply assume it to be true.
I know very little of the assassins capabilities, but I think I can speak very well on Aragorn’s behalf: having a reasonable amount of forsight (inherited from his mother’s side), a palantir, and knowledge that there are a couple of assassins after him are all a combination not to be taken lightly. Another point to make is that Aragorn is well versed in such cloak and dagger techniques personally, having won major battles with minimal force and loss with surprise techniques, such as burning the fleet at Umbar while Ecthelion (father of Denethor) was steward of Gondor, and he is an expert tracker, able to read the signs of his environment better than any mortal of the time, perhaps even ever.
Let’s not forget the cloak of Lorien he has, either. I’m not sure what the assassins visual prwoess are, but I doubt they compare to an elves or an eagles, and those cloaks could fool even them.
“Let’s not forget the cloak of Lorien he has, either. I’m not sure what the assassins visual prwoess are, but I doubt they compare to an elves or an eagles, and those cloaks could fool even them.”
The Assassins both have Eagle Vision, but I don’t really know how that would interact with Aragorn’s Lorien cloak. I’d probably give the advantage to Aragorn simply because we never see Eagle Vision see through concealing magic, but it’s a tough call.
But, can the Assassins get people to come with them, or recruit people to help?
When weakened, the Reunited Kingdoms had easily 15,000 to 20,000 troops, so now, if Aragorn calls all his allies with all his own troops, (he has more allies to call upon now), he has probably 50,000 troops.
“But, can the Assassins get people to come with them, or recruit people to help?”
I was considering allowing Ezio and Altiar to allow to call an assassin every 30 seconds but I decided against it, but I guess they could attempt to make the people revolt against Aragorn, which I think will be unlikely to happen.
@Doctor: So you’re saying that nothing exists in the world other than what is canonically mentioned? Also, Hitman said that Ezio and Altair can speak English, not that everyone does. And you actually do need to stop thinking in a world where the entire universe is what’s mentioned in canon, and nothing else exists, at all. Here’s an example: we never have any feats of Eonwe beating anyone specifically. But I know that he has beaten people, and that he will never lose. You know how? He’s fought in many Wars, and he is the best fighter in Arda. See? He doesn’t actually have specific feats, but I still know that about him. Just like I’ve never heard of a Gondorian Secret Service or something like that, but they have to have one because they are at war, they need someone to protect the King, and they are in a city, and a city and country needs a Secret Service or other elite force.
EDIT: Never mind, I just saw that you aren’t saying they don’t exist, just that they have no feats. Before, it looked like you were saying they can’t have one because it isn’t stated.
The number of soldiers available is a non-issue. Part of being an assassin is avoiding the army entirely.
Aragorn isn’t going to randomly arrest citizens just because they could be assassins. He’s too honorable for that and doesn’t want to be a tyrant.
The assassins have always used small numbers in order to move undetected. A big engagement isn’t their style and doesn’t play to their strengths.
It’s more likely that the assassins will sneak into the city by distracting the guards with cherry bombs, blend in with the crowds until they get to the castle, kill the sentries with knives, hidden blades, and datura bombs, then engage Aragorn directly under the cover of smoke bombs.
@epicazaroth:
Thank you for seeing what I was saying. All I meant was it is hard to get feats for something that, right now, is completely theoretical. I apologize for the confusion.
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@Beli:
The reason that the number of soldiers became an issue was because of my suggestion of the assassins rallying support. An argument came up against that in which I questioned the total of Aragorn’s resources.
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“The Assassins both have Eagle Vision, but I don’t really know how that would interact with Aragorn’s Lorien cloak. I’d probably give the advantage to Aragorn simply because we never see Eagle Vision see through concealing magic, but it’s a tough call.”
If I recall correctly, in the final battle against Al Mualim in Assassin’s Creed I, you need to use the Eagle Vision to see the true Al Mualim against his clones. This isn’t seeing past magical barriers, but it is seeing through magical trickery, if that counts.
Anyone cares to pull out their coins to toss up?
By “engage Aragorn” do you mean “engage Aragorn, his numerous guards, and his powerful friends and possibly allies”? Also, that has been discussed, how do you think we got to the “gather allies” approach?
“Having his soldiers bust into homes and look for “assassins” who as far as 90 or so percent of the population knows don’t exist is a good way to start a rebellion against your rule.”
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It’s a good way for a rebellion to start in a democracy, but kings can do whatever the hell they want in a kingdom and people will take it for the norm. It has to be a long-running, constant amount of bad leadership in order to get people used to a monarch angry at said monarch.
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I would also like to point out that Dr. Doctor does have a point with the cloak-and-dagger organization, or lack thereof. While Gondor is sure to have something like that or similar to it, the fact remains that there was little-to-no secret organization fighting occurring during LoTR.
aragons forces? well it was said in the 3rd book’s epilouge that at some point aragon’s resourses reached beyond that of the first numanoreans (srry i couldnt spell that word) of whom at one point controlled all of middle earth where the movies/books are concentrated at. meaning aragon at the least has enough resources to destroy any other kingdom but instead has treaties and all that other stuff to stop war between nations/kingdoms. he has, at the very least, 400,000 troops under the banner of gondor. has one of the last palantirs ( isengards palentir was given, along with isengard, to the rohan king Eomer, the one they found in minis morgol (that place next to the gigantic spider’s lair) was given to the dwarves, the palantir of the north is given to the hobbits, and the palantir of osgiliath was given to the elves of greenwood ( mirkwoods new name)
while the other one of fornost lies in the ruins of the dark tower) meaning that the leaders of the free people could constantly keep in cummunications with each other nearly instantly.
many of the human forces that you saw aid mordor are actually part of gondor now whether though serving in gondor’s army, or work as laberors, or in umbars case, became part of their navy.
aragon also has the trust of the dwarves after he helped them retake moria, which was restored to its old name, kazadum. through the dwarves he gets a steady supply of mithril ( he uses it for his royal army and his guards.) since he is friend of the elves he has acess to their vast knowledge (whatever is left of it anyways.)
i got alot the rest of this stuff from some of the new books ill comment later on this
can anyone tell me how to change my avatar? im a little new to this site ty for your time guys
@Housecracker
Gravatar.com
“can anyone tell me how to change my avatar? im a little new to this site ty for your time guys”
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Welcome to the Pile! You can go to www.gravatar.com in order to change your avatar. Because you are new here, I am going to recommend that proper capitalization and punctuation be used. It will make your posts a lot easier to read and will add credence to what you say. You do not have to do so – some here don’t – it is simply a suggestion. In addition, I also recommend separating paragraphs with a little dash, like so:
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It will make your posts easier to read, and will prevent a “Wall of Text”.
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All-in-all, stay logical and stay friendly, and for the most part, you will be fine.
Check gravatar.com and see if that helps.
@Councilor Aelfinn
Care to check up on BT vs Harry Dresden, sometime?
@Aelfinn:
Walls of text burn my eyes.
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When I initially said, “Can they recruit allies?” I meant just start a small band of warriors to attack the king. I didn’t mean for the whole “Cause an uprising!” thing to happen.
“Care to check up on BT vs Harry Dresden, sometime?”
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Who’s BT? If this is on the Topia, I may not be able to help. I tried to join it again, and when I came back to it the next day, I was told my account didn’t exist.
@Councilor Aelfinn
Initials for Black Templar, I could link to you the match if you wish.
“Walls of text burn my eyes. ”
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TBH, I often just skim over them. Especially in debates with Mike, where I know what he is saying and I wait for the relevant bits to be picked out. I know I shouldn’t, though.
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‘When I initially said, “Can they recruit allies?” I meant just start a small band of warriors to attack the king.”
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This seems likely. If they can piss off twenty or so people from Rohan, then they may be able to get them to charge the guards and allow the Assassins a way in. How Aragorn would prevent this, though, requires some thought.
Am I the ONLY one who finds “Two foreign guys vs. an entire kingdom” to be unfair and pointless? I mean seriously…
They’re assassins. They can dodge the kingdom and kill the king before anyone realizes they’ve arrived.
Kinda the point of an assassination, if you ask me.
No, but you are the only one who thinks that this is the Assassins vs Gondor. And why do you think that people from Rohan will hate him? Why not Harads? Also, the OP says they have to go through Minas Tirith. That seems like it means they start in Minas Tirith so wouldn’t it seem weird if they just leave randomly and never come back?
I don’t think time will help them. They wouldn’t be able to gain any helpful information, as Aragorn wouldn’t let anyone know that. During that time, Aragorn will have been able to learn more about them, and may have learned who they are, thereby hurting them more than they helped themselves.
Housecracker, I have no idea what your sources are for a lot of your info, but a lot of it is crap. There were only 4 palantiri still accessible to anybody at all in middle-earth by the time of LOTR, and none of them would have, or even could have been handed out like that. The Isengard stone Aragorn kept, because it was the only one that could still work well, aside from the one at the towers of the grey haven, which was taken on an elven ship back to Erressea (outside of middle earth). The Minas Tirith stone was tainted by Denethor’s death, and required one of exceptionally strong will to show anything other than hands withering in flames. The Ithil stone was in Barad-dur when it fell, and the nature of that fall was such that it almost certainly wouldn’t have survived, and would be nigh unrecoverable even if it did. The rest had all been lost in the sea since before the last King of Gondor before Aragorn died.
Also, Aragorn gave Isengard to the Ents, not Rohan, but kept Orthanc (the tower in Isengard) himself.
The rest of that, such as Moria being retaken, is outside of anything I’ve read, but the actual books make clear everyhting else I just said. I want Aragorn to win this, but we can’t give him more than what he could actually have.
“The rest of that, such as Moria being retaken”
I have actually heard this bit myself. I think it’s in one of the appendices of RotK, along with the info on Aragorn’s reign, what Legolas and Gimli did afterwards, etc.
there is nothing about retaking moria in the appendix, and very little about what Legolas and Gimli did, other than the aid they bring to the rebuilding of Minas Tirith, Gimli becoming lord of the glittering caves of algarond (the caves behind the fortress of Helm’s Deep), and the brief paragraph about them both leaving on an elven ship after Aragorn dies
There also is very little info on the particulars of Aragorns reign: mention of there being many battles in far away lands with Rohan also there, claiming the northern kingdom as part of his realm, and visiting there occasionally with his throne on the shores of lake evendim, some mention of the interactions between his kingdom and the various other kingdoms of the assorted races on both sides of the misty mountains, nothing nothing of any detail except when he dies.
So Gimli would have a band of dwarves nearby that could help, but not from Moria
They probably have retaken Moria. The Dwarves made for King Elessar gates of mithril-steel. Since mithril is found in such abundance only in Moria, Numenor, and Aman; they have to have retaken Moria. But it doesn’t really matter where the Dwarves come from. It does with the Elves.
Aragorn can hold a “feast” in order to have allies over to help him, and if the Assassins still attck, he can set magic traps and enchant his door so you need a password, or it’s voice-activated.
Aragorn knows magic? Are you sure you don’t mean Eragon?
Not him, he could ask someone else as part of his preparations. I don’t even know how to respond to the second part.
Is there any chance of the assassins ending their quest after realizing Aragorn is a just ruler?
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Probably not, I was just hoping this would end happily for both sides.
Well, they’ll be spying on him, so probably.
All you guys aren’t reading the title of the fight. The two master assassins vs Aragon in the throne room in Gondor. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Nobody said anyting about Gondorians or allies or guards. But that, too, would be unfair.
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Also, if they did have guards posted outside the throne room and inside, they could just smoke bomb, eagle vision, and kill them all while they cough and stumble around in the dark, then run outside and Leap of Faith of the giant drop next to the White Tree.
@The Knower
and you don’t read the setup, “They will have to make their way through Minis Tirith in order to kill him.” unless Aragorn sent the whole city on vacation there’s going to be more than just the throne room involved.
Oh yeah, only saw that afterwards. Sorry.
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But still, the smoke bomb thing would work. Or else a datura bomb, (my favorite).
Bloodlines may be a legitimate factor in here, but in this particular match it’d only be a mid!-Moderate!-tier X-factor, at best, rather than a Major!-tier one.
@The Knower
its okay, was just pointing it out. Title’s are not always indicative.
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I’m guessing your new to the site?
@GuardianAngel1911
Yeah, first day but read this site before. Think its awesome/
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@Commander Cross
Why so?
@The Knower
Ah, welcome to the site officially then.
Thanks good to be here. Always wished for a site like this. Just where you can imagine the unimaginable. And have a laugh on the way
@The Knower
Because generally speaking, if the General taught me anything worth noting, its this:
In a match between Bloodlines and Circumstances, Circumstances beat out Bloodlines more times than not, generally speaking.
Although with Altair’s + Ezio’s case in here, it may be possible that they have Bloodlines combined with circumstances, but unless the fight has an overall verdict, its not in my best interests to say for sure in here.
I could name guys who have Circumstances in their favor more times than not, Dresden being one of them, Haseo(dot.hack universe) being another, and Skulduggery Pleasant being latest!
First off, Skuldugger Pleasant is probaly the coolest skeleton detective I know.
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I think I get you now. Would be a good fight though. Also, couldn’t the assassins just bribe the heralds to badmouth Aragon and cause riots like Ezio did to the Janizarries?
@The Knower
Oh I know, they didn’t even state if he had any legendary bloodlines to contend with(that’s more Valkyrie Cain’s thing, anywho!) does it make him less of a Badass?
If his past during that war with Serpine’s Master’s lot says anything about that, Those who say it does would be wrong, dead wrong about it, NQA!
I’m wondering to have him fight against Haseo of the dot.hack universe or Ragna the Bloodedge from BlazBlue, or even Sol Badguy from Guilty Gear, really.
What about Jace Wayland from the Mortal Instruments series?
Back to kombat: I don’t know, they’d have to require time to get fully adjusted to Middle-Earth, they take too long and the tables of time might turn against them by the time full adjustment is done!
But there isn’t a time-set, right? They could just stakeout for a few years( if Ezio can manage), and then wait of Aragon to let his guard down. But with his time in the wilderness, I doubt he’d ever let his senses down.
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I think a good fight for Skullduggery would be China from the same book. Now that I’d like to see.
- Still on Skullduggery, do you know when the newest is realesing?
@The Knower
Skulduggery Pleasant is badass.
What do you know of Harry Dresden?
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The Assassins could use any number of the strategies we’ve detailed really. Its not that hard to make people think a king has turned into a paranoid loon.
@The Knower
In the kombat: True enough, but on that regard its a rather big If to consider, I am sure.
Digression shot: Won’t lie, I don’t know if/when Dark Days is being released, probably when Derek Landy stops pulling the
(downright horrid)impression of abandoning the U.S, methinks?Also, if we’re talking Skulduggery from 1st 3 books, what’d say you to vs Lloyd Slate from the Dresden Files back when Slate was the Winter Knight?
I tried to get Valkyrie Cain a pursuit!-based match, with her being the pursued after the events of Volume 03: The Faceless ones, but my efforts felt like they’re in vain as the Pursuer may as well be in Boba Fett’s boots fighting Samus.
Skuldeggery is some boss.
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So, the assassins make it to Minas Tirth and infriltrate the throne only to find Lord Vile in there, pissing on Aragons corpse like a king.
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Whos Harry Dresdan?
@The Knower
YIKES on that idea!
May as well send out Haseo with Non!-standard Powers prepared to fight Lord Vile in that case, or Tavi with the FPR applied to him as the 1st Aleran Lord, for that matter!
You mean you didn’t hear of Pumpkin!-headed Harry Dresden, the guy who had to fight Kratos of God of War and recently won via the skin of his teeth?
Ehh, no. Is this in GoW Asencion?
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Isn’t the next Skulduggery Pleasnt book The End of The World. The one after DeathBringer?
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I’m voting for a draw! The two assassins realize Aragon is pretty sound out and then they become friends and go for a drink in the pub
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How do you create fights?
@The Knower
You need me to bring you a link to Kratos vs Harry Dresden, then?
Didn’t Derek Landy apparently abandon us after all, post Book 03? T_T
If we go with Post-Deathbringer Skulduggery then we may have to get Haseo with all 8 Morganna Factors + FPR to consider in that case. T_T’
Or Dresden with the Darkhollow Ritual, for that matter!
I might accept the idea of a draw unless there’s no other way to get back to the past.
Also its simple, join factpiletopia.com and get to the VMA, but if you’re asking to suggest fights, get to the Battle Requests section, please?
@The Knower
That’s the match I meant, in fact, please check this out!
Back on the matter at hand, anyone want to check how long it’ll take for the assassins to adjust to Middle-Earth?
@The Knower
Dresden is the main character of the Dresden Files by Jim Butcher, he’s a Wizard and Private Eye.
dresdenfiles.wikia.com/wiki/Harry_Dresden
www.factpile.com/2561-battle-requests-2/ thats where you request them, and no you don’t have to pay it just causes them to be put up possibly more quickly
www.factpiletopia.com/viewforum.php?f=99 and there’s the site to discuss new ones though you’ll have to sign up for it.
@Admiral
You’re forgetting Badass Magi-Military War Leader, WHY?????(granted he didn’t become one until sometime after the events of the 1st novel, but still…)
So how do Altair and Ezio adapt to the customs of other nations, and how quickly?
Does signing up cost money?
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I just requested Achilles vs Drizzt Do’Urden. Think thats a good match.
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Do I have to sign up to discuss new ones?
@The Knower
Nope, its actually free, but you may need guys willing to show you the way, actually.
Achilles vs Drizzt has potential, but what kind of potential might depend on Which version of Achilles are you intending to use, in fact.
Original Myth!-version?
Movie!-versions?
Video Game versions?
Gemmel’s take on him?
@Commander Cross
Im guessing pretty quickly considering Ezio’s work in Roma, his work again in Istanbul, Altair also adjusts position of Grand Master and is the greatest of all the assassins, even though hes no more than thirty.
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So I’d say a few weeks, maybe months/
Gemmells take, R.I.P, what a great writer :’(
I like that version better than any.
@The Knower
So its either Original!-Myth version of Achilles or Gemmell’s take on Achilles that may be best-suited, right?
Yes. Did you see my post above that, too? Relating to this battle thats kinda gone off track
@Knower
How about we split our posts to two, one for Back on match, the other on digression shots?
Back on match: Care to show Ezio’s work on Roma or Istanbul(latter being born on the ruins of Constantinople, in fact?) really?
Digression shot: My bad, you might have read the Camp Half-Blood novels by Rick Riordan, I hope, right?(from The Lightning Thief to the Last Olympian for 1st CHB series, 2nd CHB series being from The Lost Hero-The Son of Neptune so far, right?)
Back on match: You mean proof? Ezio literally rebuilt the Italian Brotherhood from the ashes when he arrived. He brought the Thieves Guild back, helped the Mercanaries, the Courtesans and in the end, he won. Also in Istanbul, he take back most of the city by burning signal fires.
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Disgression shot: Yeah I read Rick Riordan. Good writer. I havent read The Son of Neptune yet but I thought The Lost Hero was much better than Percy Jackson. Jason Grace is just a better character.
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Oh, that should be a duel :0
“Ezzio is a canon one man army”
Thats not a particularly impressive feat in LOTR, i recall ezzio killing somewhere between 10-25 people(im on my phone and cant rewatch it right now) before being overwhelmed, Aragorn is known to plow through hundreds uruk-hai, who are stronger than humans, fearless, and incredibly resistant to pain, i have no doubt the assassins can get to him, but it will take both of them to even have a chance at beating him, if gimli legolas and arwen are with him(which has yet to be specified) then it is a stomp in Aragorn’s favor, legolas could have 4 arrows protruding from both of their skulls in the blink of an eye
Where in ever does it say Aragon plowed through hundreds of Uruk-hai?
maybe not literally hundreds, but easily more than ezzio killed in the revelations opening
But you have to remeber, Ezio was like seventy, eighty easy then. Even though Aragon is the same age, hes a Dunedain and he still has the strength of his youth.
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But everytime Ezio fights he risks breaking a hip!
And when you kill the guy Tarik Bal, i just stood and kill all those Janisarries so Ezio can clear Janisarry camps, at seventy years of age without breaking a hip! :0
Ezio was in his early 50s, and is still that age for this match.
Yes, it says at the start. Ezio from Revelations in his 50s. And you can’t forget Ezio’s feats before Revelations. He defeated Cesare Borgia, who was trained by master swordsmen. He was shot in the side and fell off a building a survived. (Brotherhood).
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In Revelations his wagon explodes and sends him flying off the cliff and smashing against the side. In his fifties. And still he gets up and kills a dozen Templars, injured like that>
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And of course, Ezio has the Greatest Master Assassin in history, Altair on his side, who has done many more feats.
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If this was a straight fight, Aragon would put up a fight but he’d lose. But it isn’t which is why I’m voting for a draw.
The fact that he is 50 while performing these feats is completely irrelevant
In his 50s it took 20-35 men to overwhelm him
Aragorn is shown to be able to take on signifficantly larger numbers of stronger foes
As for durability aragorn fell of a few hundred foot cliff, while already battered from battle, survived, got on his horse and rode for several hours to minas tirith, and arrived ready for another fight
Actually was Helms Deep.
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Are you saying you could take more than 35 men in your fifties?
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Aragon is shown to take on sigificantly more enemies with the help of Legolas and Gimli, and he still has the strength of his prime.
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And arrived for another fight, the fight was a few days later.
THE FACT THAT ARAGORN IS IN HIS PHYSICAL PRIME AND EZIO ISNT DOES NOT MAKE EZIOS FEATS ANY MORE IMPRESSIVE, EZIO WAS 50 WHEN HE DID THEM AND IS 50 IN THIS MATCH , EZIO COULD NOT TAKE 35 MEN, BUT ARAGORN COULD EASILY TAKE 35 URUK HAI, THEREFORE ARAGORN IS A BETTER FIGHTER THAN EZIO, PERIOD. Jesus christ dude.
both points are moot since neither took on more than a dozen opponents at any given time.
…Actually, I do believe that Altair did take on atleast a dozen foes at one time.
@Dr Rockso
So Aragon is a better fighter by a small bit. Who cares? While hes battling Ezio Altair could sneak up behind him and rip his throat out.
@Belisaurius
Yeah, Altair did take on more than a dozen. Remeber reavaltions, the mission My Masters Keeper? Altair comes and kills more than any assassin, and turns the tide of battle.
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So if it was just Ezio and Altair fighting Aragon, no guards, the assassins would win.
With guards, I’d say a draw. Too difficult to breach the throne room.
During kombat: What is the extent of both sides’ fighting experiences?
Does Aragorn’s time develop guns, yet?
Digression shot to The Knower:
Well I don’t know about Jason being any better or worse when I am just granting him the benefit of the doubt before thinking of putting him on trial(or at least leave him there) personally, since he didn’t bother to explain himself in there, better-trained is more likely.
He does, however, floor Eragon at this time via skin of his teeth and is currently duking it out with Jace Wayland of the Mortal Instruments, both opponents I’m trying to get Haseo to duke it out with!
Care to check on the Link, Knower?
Yeah I’ll check out the link in a minute.
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Aragon doesn’t have guns, only bows and crossbows and magic.
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Altair trained since he was a little boy to be a assassin, and at twenty-six, twenty-seven?, was the leader of the assassins, being as he was the most skilled.
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Ezio on the other hand was turned to a killer when his father and brothers were captured and hanged, and with little experince, still managed to beat off six guards at once. Since he was seventeen to early fifties, hes been battling it out.
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Aragon was raised in Rivendell by the elves, and has at least seventy years of experince in swordfighting, but most of his impressive feats is with Legolas and Gimli by his side.
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Disgression shot: Is The Son of Neptune a good book?
@The Knower
I wonder what Aragorn did during those 70 years he was raised by the Elves, and what kingdoms were those particular elves hailing from, in fact.
Digression shot: Thanks for joining in the link, and to answer your question on SoN, I’m inclined to believe its the better of the two volumes since not only do we get to learn somewhat more on Jason’s past for the trial, but Percy’s back with more abilities feats and stuff!
Good, can’t wait to read it.
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As far as I can tell, Aragon was raised till his twenties in Rivendell, (haven’t read the books in ages), and then set out. But he was always welcome there.
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Does Ezio and Altair have any PoE’s? That would be a game changer.
“I wonder what Aragorn did during those 70 years he was raised by the Elves, and what kingdoms were those particular elves hailing from, in fact.”
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he will have spent the time in rivendell being tutored in medicine, history/lore, leadership, war, politics, presumably things like mathematics and rhetoric and geometry, riding/horse husbandry, tracking, hunting, sword, spear, and bow martial arts, and so on.
time abroad he will have spent putting those lessons to use.
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assuming his “full time” tuition ended at 15 or 16 years, as is the norm currently, he will have had about 65 years practical experience in rangering, troop-leading, and general combat, mixed in with whatever else he did whilst staying in rivendell after his majority.
But you have to take into account Altair was trained from birth to be a great assassin. The only life he has ever known was one of killing.
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Could the same be said to Aragon? I think not.
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Ezio also has decades of experince in swordfighting and freerunning, and is also a great leader and a excellent swordfighter, (abit cocky, though).
“But you have to take into account Altair was trained from birth to be a great assassin”
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no i dont, because no he wasnt. what is probably meant by “trained from birth” is that he was trained from about the age of three (at the earliest) or four.
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“The only life he has ever known was one of killing.”
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not exactly worlds different from aragorn…
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“Ezio”
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freerunning aside there is nothing said there about ezio that cannot be said about aragorn.
“freerunning aside there is nothing said about Ezio that cannot be said about Aragorn”
Oh, I forgot Aragorn can climb Galata Tower, The Vatican, and the Colliseum.
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“no i dont, because no he wasnt. what is probably meant by “trained from birth” is that he was trained from about the age of three (at the earliest) or four”
At the age of three or four, I doubt Aragorn was learing how to fight. He’d be suckling his thumb. The elves cared for him, Altair’s parents did not. His parents were to train him, that was there duty.
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“not exactly worlds differant from Aragorn”
Yes, it isn’t much differant, except for the fact Altair’s only study was killing, not history or lore.
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@The Knower
Care to say more on Altair’s parents in particular?
Digression shot: For that matter, care to join in Annabeth Chase’s match?
“Oh, I forgot Aragorn can climb Galata Tower, The Vatican, and the Colliseum.”
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no, he only trecked many, many thousands of miles across hill, fen, sea, mountain, field and forest, for some sixty years of his life. no room for equal feats there, is there?
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“At the age of three or four, I doubt Aragorn was learing how to fight. He’d be suckling his thumb. ”
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irrelevant; being trained from 3 does not mean being trained in assasination techniques. it means being made to do thing that will allow training in assasination techniques once altair is old enough. as to thumb sucking, that is nothing more and a childish put-down.
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” The elves cared for him, Altair’s parents did not.”
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irrelevant. raising someone to war and hardship takes a different kind of caring than you are implying.
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“His parents were to train him, that was there duty.”
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as was it the duty of the elves to train aragorn. what is your point?
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“Yes, it isn’t much differant, except for the fact Altair’s only study was killing, not history or lore.”
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irrelevant. in point of fact, altair would very likely have been better at his job if he had been taught history and lore as well as killing.
First off, if Sherlock Holmes taught me one thing, nothing is irrelvant.
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Secondly, how does learning history make Altair a better assassin, he’d wouldn’t be learning Midlle-Earth’s history
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My point is, his parents would spank his ass if he did something wrong, which finally turned him into a relentless killer.
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His parents not caring for him is not irrelavant, not by a long shot. How many of the worlds tyrants were raised without love?
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And actually, Altair did treking of his own. He travelled throughout Syria to complete his assassinations. And anyone can travel across thousands of miles, (given the time), like Bear Grylls, but only a couple hundred people can climb buildings like a monkey, Aragorn not being one.
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@Commander Cross
It doesn’t give you much information on Altair’s parents, but when he talks with Al Mulaim, he does mention he didn’t know his Father. I think the speech was,
Al Mualim: I’ve watched you grow from a boy to man in such short a time, it fills me with a such sadness as proudness. You fit your fathers boots as if they’ve been tailored to your feet”.
Altair-I didn’t really know him much, he was a assassin above all
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How can you have a father who trains you everyday and not know him?
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@CC
I’ll go into the link, sounds good.
“First off, if Sherlock Holmes taught me one thing, nothing is irrelvant. ”
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yeah, no.
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“Secondly, how does learning history make Altair a better assassin”
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understanding the targets mentality ftw. tell me, if you had to kill a specific person, wouldnt it increase your chances to understand what about that persons culture made them vulnerable? what social mores they had that would help or hinder you?
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“My point is, his parents would spank his ass if he did something wrong, which finally turned him into a relentless killer.”
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my parents did the same to me. i am not an expert assasin. or an assasin. in fact, i have never killed anybody at all. nor am i particularly relentless.
the point here is that corporal punishment has at best an accidental relationship to ones propensity for murder.
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“His parents not caring for him is not irrelavant, not by a long shot. How many of the worlds tyrants were raised without love?”
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non-sequitur. generally speaking, it is the ability of the parent, not how much they “love” the child, that has certain effects. afterall, there are all manner of fucked up parents who love their children.
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“And actually, Altair did treking of his own”
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yes. then again, i never said altair couldnt travel did i?
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“but only a couple hundred people can climb buildings like a monkey, Aragorn not being one.”
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two unsupported statements rolled into one. first, you and i have absolutely no idea how many people are good at climbing buildings. realistically, a “couple hundred” is far, far, faaar too small a figure, no matter what time period we are talking about. secondly, you would need evidence to support your assertion that aragorn could not climb up a building when he can climb mountains and so on. i, personally, would consider traversing caradhras (several times), the misty mountains (several times), and the emyn muil (at least twice) to be superior feats to climbing a tower in galata, the coloseum and so forth…
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Oh my god. If Altair studied lore and history like Aragorn did when he was young then. He’d. Learn. About. His. Own. Planet!! Jesus.
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Your parents doing the same to you doesn’t mean anything. Altair’s parents didn’t love him, but trained him harshly! You didn’t kill anyone because your parents and other teachers weren’t training you too.
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“A couple of hundred” was just a figure of speech. No need to take it seriously.
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And we’re back to my point I already posted. Anyone can travel across mountains!!! Altair could travel across those places at least as many times as Aragorn could. But I don’t see Aragorn climbing towers and buildings. But we do see Altair traveling across mountains.
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Understand yet?
“Oh my god. If Altair studied lore and history like Aragorn did when he was young then. He’d. Learn. About. His. Own. Planet!! Jesus.”
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awesome debating skills bro. i cannot decide whether you intentionally ignore my point or genuinely cannot understand it.
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“Your parents doing the same to you doesn’t mean anything.”
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considering your exact assertion was that “his parents would spank his ass if he did something wrong, which finally turned him into a relentless killer.” i was pointing out that you are in fact entirely, measurably and very nearly self-evidently wrong. that is what my statement meant. which is what i actually pointed out immediately after my example.
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“Altair could travel across those places at least as many times as Aragorn could.”
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proof? got a source stating altair could traverse a distance roughly equal to the distance between baghdad and marrakech several times, dealing with mountain ranges equalling the himalayas in size and impassability? because i dont remember any such terrain occuring in the regions between syria and gaza.
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“But I don’t see Aragorn climbing towers and buildings.”
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comparable feats of a greater magnitude show that aragorn is superior in this regard. or are you suggesting that climbing a building with plenty of handholds is sufficiently different to scaling a mountain, or a cliff face, that feats in the latter cannot be compared to feat in the former? because…you would be wrong.
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“But we do see Altair traveling across mountains.”
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source please. youtube vid will do nicely.
People respect teachers. They respect parents. So when your taught by your parent, you respect them. But his own parents didn’t love him, so he was little more than a slave doing they’re bidding, knowing he’d get punished if he did something wrong.
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Pretty soon this turned Altair into sort of a heartless man.
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I know for a fact that Ezio climbed mountains, along with Altair. Climbing mountains isn’t much of a good feat.
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“People respect teachers. They respect parents. So when your taught by your parent, you respect them. But his own parents didn’t love him, so he was little more than a slave doing they’re bidding, knowing he’d get punished if he did something wrong.
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Pretty soon this turned Altair into sort of a heartless man.”
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well…firstly that is not what you said. mightve been what you meant, but it is not even nearly what you said. secondly, aragorn went without a father, and had to make do with his various instructors. some may have played favourites, most will simply have taught him what he needed to know. one form of child-rearing is not necessarily any more useful in this debate than the other.
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“I know for a fact that Ezio climbed mountains, along with Altair.”
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i believe i asked for a source on altair.
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“Climbing mountains isn’t much of a good feat.”
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actually, for a normal, unaugmented/unmodified human it most definitely is an exceptional feat, but that is not the point i was making. the point i was making is that both building-climbing and mountain-climbing are feats of ability and endurance in terms of climbing, but that the latter is manifestly greater than the former.
Since when was Aragorn a unaugmented/unmodified human? Hes a dunidean, I wouldn’t call that unmodified.
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Aragorn may have went without a father, but he had many father-figures in Rivendell to care for him. Altair didn’t.
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And what do you mean thats not what I said?
“Since when was Aragorn a unaugmented/unmodified human? Hes a dunidean, I wouldn’t call that unmodified.”
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the edain live a little longer and are generally a bit taller by this point. the edain of the first age might qualify as something above a normal human, by the third age there is precious little but longevity to distinguish them. so yeah, he is unmodified.
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“Aragorn may have went without a father, but he had many father-figures in Rivendell to care for him. Altair didn’t.”
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and, once again, that is entirely irrelevant. do you think a person being raised to war and hardship is going to be mollycoddled?
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“And what do you mean thats not what I said?”
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it is not what you said because what you originally said was essentially that corporal punishment=hardened killer. not “…he was little more than a slave doing they’re bidding, knowing he’d get punished if he did something wrong.”
what you said at first and what you said here are entirely different things.
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both, however, are ultimately irrelevant to the fight, considering aragorn has as many years fighting and rangering under his belt as ezio has been alive.