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This match is its strictly ground based combat between the two.
There will be three full battalions for both sides. Each side gets reinforcements every 2 hours.
This will basically work like a game of rush. Both sides have a main base that is a bunker in form and an underground portion with multiple exits all over the map.
The map will be 50 miles wide in length and width. Both will have access to all their tech except WMDs, AIs, and other I win buttons.
UNSC also has access to Covenant vehicles and weapons in which they have the full knowledge o f how to use. USCMC will have access to certain predator tech that is usable for their human form. Both sides will have full armor core divisions which are replaced every 3 hours.
Air Support will be limited to pelicans and UD Dropships. Both have access to artillery but no bunker busters. They have both have a capitol ship on overwatch that will not engage each other but instead will be used for reinforcement platform and information relay. They will also have automatic defense systems for their bases but no mines. Special forces are included but in limited quantities like only 1 squad per 10 hours. Each starts off with a squad of Special Forces.
The main mission for the two is that they have both discovered Forerunner tech within the area where they laid their bases and are digging for it as they fight. They have already unearthed most of the tech and decided now is the time to strike. Thus they are trying to infiltrate each other’s base and either capture or kill the other team and steal the tech.
Who will win?
are spartans involved?
unsc gets covennt weapon acces?
initial vote unsc then..
though i´m more of a colonial marine fan..
pulserifle and smartgun FTW
Name of the suggester didn’t show. Odd O_o
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That said…. I have no idea who wins this
sry but what kind of spec ops does the colonial navy have?
unsc spec ops defenitively spartans
spartans + covy weapons … mean advantage…
even if marines get acces to predtech
that just would mean stealth and limited plasma weapons and steelcutting weapons … but iirc
covys have shields … soooo yeah this will be hard for the marines …
No Spartans. Strictly marines and a squad of helljumpers for their special forces. Why would I give The UNSC Spartans?
Also who said they have shields I clearly said weapons and some vehicles. Mainly scout vehicles like the ghosts and 1 wraith in their armor core. Do the UNSC have armored carriers?
“…I clearly said weapons…”
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Like what?
“Like what?”
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The usual. Pistols, rifles, some needlers, no swords or fuel rods though.
@redrum
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I think the elephant is the UNSC’s armored carrier
Hm, sentry guns and smartguns both make chokepoints a whole lot more deadly. The scoped rifle makes camouflage useless (it can show xenos in total darkness and predator’s while cloaked) and would make sneak attacks very difficult. Then you have the CM Shotgun which can fire both barrels simultaneously.
If no spartans than im going with USCMC, as their sentries and smart guns might make quick work of the ground force, however, this is yet to be determined. A nice battle suggestion, Though
I’m fairly certain that the UNSC has better armor.
Can the ODST deploy where they want to, or can they only be deployed in certain areas? Can Pelicans provide fire support or are they just transports?
By armor I mean vehicles.
Pelicans are allowed fire support and ODST is allowed to drop anywhere except directly into the base. Halo Supporters are allowed to work out how a UNSC base is constructed and its defenses. I will do the same for the USCMC. I will not perticipate on the debate until the 50 post mark is reached.
By the way the terrain is Jungle based with the bases located in clearings that are 200 meters from the tree lines. The clearings will have small amounts of cover in fallen trees, rocks, and holes made by previous artillery fire.
Well we could just spam Ordinance, Scorpion, and Wraith fire, then swarm with a mix of ODST drops, Pelican runs, vehicles, and infantry.
The USCMC can do the exact same thing. However they won’t since there are goods beneath the base they need to get to in order to win. Thus I prevented direct shelling against bases since then it’ll be artillery vs artillery and USCMC wins in that department. But more on that later.
“The USCMC can do the exact same thing. However they won’t since there are goods beneath the base they need to get to in order to win. Thus I prevented direct shelling against bases since then it’ll be artillery vs artillery and USCMC wins in that department. But more on that later.”
-Of course you don’t shell the base. You shell everything around the base so you (A. kill everything outside. (B. cause a smoke screen.
Also, what is the min-max range of the sentry guns of the USCMC?
Also Covenant and some UNSC tech has EMP capabilities.
“Also, what is the min-max range of the sentry guns of the USCMC?”
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There is no definitive range given but it uses the same rounds and firing system as the M56 Smartgun which has an effective range of 1500 meters and a maximum of 2000 so it would be in that range.
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“-Of course you don’t shell the base. You shell everything around the base so you (A. kill everything outside. (B. cause a smoke screen.”
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All USCMC member are equipped with infrared sights on their helmets so they would see through the smoke and they can do the same to the UNSC.
Damn guess nobody cares. And I paid $2 for this match. Oh well back to the drawing board.
“There is no definitive range given but it uses the same rounds and firing system as the M56 Smartgun which has an effective range of 1500 meters and a maximum of 2000 so it would be in that range.”
-What about up-down-left-right turning?
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“All USCMC member are equipped with infrared sights on their helmets so they would see through the smoke and they can do the same to the UNSC.”
-I think ODST has something like Infrared, but not infrared. I forgot what they called it. It bathes everything in yellow and highlights targets.
“Damn guess nobody cares. And I paid $2 for this match. Oh well back to the drawing board.”
-They care, they are just AFK.
“-What about up-down-left-right turning?”
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They have 360 degree turning and can aim at pretty much anything not directly above them. Terrain hampering movement is a problem depending on location
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“-I think ODST has something like Infrared, but not infrared. I forgot what they called it. It bathes everything in yellow and highlights targets.”
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That would have been pretty useful against cloaked Elites.
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“-They care, they are just AFK.”
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Guess we should wait for them so this match can become interesting.
“Guess we should wait for them so this match can become interesting.”
-True
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“That would have been pretty useful against cloaked Elites.”
-On cloaking it iffy, however pitch black night in a very large city works wonders.
“-On cloaking it iffy, however pitch black night in a very large city works wonders.”
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I think I read in Halo: The Flood that they can see Elites with those since when the Elites infiltrated the base they used those to hunt them down in 2 man fire teams. But it was year since I read that book.
“I think ODST has something like Infrared, but not infrared. I forgot what they called it. It bathes everything in yellow and highlights targets.”
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You mean this?
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www.halopedian.com/VISR
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In conjunction with this
www.halopedian.com/Stealth_Tactical_Aerial_Reconnaissance_Satellite
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It gives the UNSC a massive tactical advantage.
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Is there any info on USCMC vehicles?
“You mean this?
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www.halopedian.com/VISR”
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Says its only usable in low light situations. That coupled with the fact that it has a built in radio and they are screwed if they try to rush the fence line since the sentry guns can also track via radio frequencies.
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“In conjunction with this
www.halopedian.com/Stealth_Tactical_Aerial_Reconnaissance_Satellite”
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These are redundant since I gave access to capitol ships for information gathering.
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“Is there any info on USCMC vehicles?”
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The main heavy battle tank of the USCMC is the M40 Ridgeway. It bosts a 115mm cannon with a firing rate of 60rpm, smoke screen deployment, mine deployment(not usable in this match), a 60mm mortar cannon, and a 20kw Phased Plasma Point Defense gun designed to deliver EMP rounds to defend against aircraft and missiles. It also boasts stealth systems designed to render it invisible from radar and infrared, jamming systems to prevent missile lock on, missile detection and interception systems. The armor itself is similar to the M577 APC in that it boasts 2mm Titanium Alloy outer skin, 4mm of Boron Carbide plates beneath that coated with 2mm of ablative resin, and backed by 3mm of woven Venlar liner. The floor is packed with foam to defend against mines.
Also about the VISR its only used by Helljumpers and Spartan 3s.
Ah, okay then.
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Does the UNSC have access to all of their vehicles shown in the series? Like Wolverines, Cobras,etc.?
“Does the UNSC have access to all of their vehicles shown in the series? Like Wolverines, Cobras,etc.?”
-Yes all ground vehicles.
Okay and the Covenant vehicles are limited to scout types and one wraith?
He said no restrictions on Covie stuff except that they couldn’t be aircraft.
Since this fight takes place in a jungle I doubt vehicles will be very useful outside of the bases’ clearings anyway unless there are trails and stuff leading to the bases.
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Infantry vs Infantry would probably go in favor of the Colonials, until they reach the clearings around the UNSC base and get cut to pieces by implaced weapons.
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I say stalemate is the likely outcome of this match.
“Since this fight takes place in a jungle I doubt vehicles will be very useful outside of the bases’ clearings anyway unless there are trails and stuff leading to the bases.
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Infantry vs Infantry would probably go in favor of the Colonials, until they reach the clearings around the UNSC base and get cut to pieces by implaced weapons.
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I say stalemate is the likely outcome of this match.”
-UNSC could just burn/blow down the jungle with Ordinance and flamethrowers. Or Elephants just plow through and act as fire bases/vehicle transports.
what about Halo Spartans?
It was said there are no spartans.
Can the underground tunnels support vehicles or only infantry?
UNSC!!!! but they would need strategist like Capt.Keyes…. also do they have access to Covenant Elites like Vadamee…
“I think the elephant is the UNSC’s armored carrier”
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They have some different ones that were vaguely mentioned in some Halo books. Besides the Elephant, there seem to be 2 or 3 others that aren’t well described.
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Hmm, I’ll have to think about this a bit longer, I’m a little tired right now. Though I just can’t wait until Midnite gets here. The fun level of this debate will go up a considerable amount upon his arrival.
“They have some different ones that were vaguely mentioned in some Halo books. Besides the Elephant, there seem to be 2 or 3 others that aren’t well described.”
-The Elephants in the Sandtrap map had several mongooses in it, and you could fit Warthogs in there.
Is the Cyclops Mark 2 allowed?
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www.halopedian.com/images/8/8d/Cyclops_mark_II.jpg
Does the UNSC have access to this:halo.wikia.com/wiki/HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL_Mark_I_Prototype_Armor_Defense_System?
^
I would think not, only one of those was ever produced and that one was destroyed.
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*Notes lack of interest in thread*
WTH this is a great match up, where is everyone?
Well it says they have access to all their tech, minus I win buttons. That doesn’t seem to fit the description with that. But, yea there was only one, and was destroyed as you said.
avp.wikia.com/wiki/United_States_Colonial_Marine_Corps#Equipment
USCMC infantry equip.
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halo.wikia.com/wiki/UNSC_Army
and
halo.wikia.com/wiki/UNSC_Marine_Corps#Equipment
for UNSC equip
These will provide an excellent base defense for the UNSC base.
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halo.wikia.com/wiki/Mark_2488_Magnetic_Accelerator_Cannon
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It’ll probably also put a massive no-fly zone around the base depending on the surrounding terrain.
From what Tarbel posted the USCMC doesn’t have anywhere near as much vehicles as the UNSC has. And since they have access to Covenant weaponry and vehicles.
UNSC Vehicles:
M12 LRV
M12G1 LAAV
M12R LAAV
M831 TT
M274 ULATV
M312 HRV
M808B MBT
M850 MBT
M-145D MAAP
SP42 Cobra
M9 MAAT
Cyclops
Gremlin CSV
Covenant Vehicles that the UNSC has access to:
Ghost
Revenant
Spectre
Chopper
Prowler
Shadow
Wraith
AA Wraith
Locust
Scarab
The UNSC will also have quite a bit for base defense:
M202 XP Machine Gun(can be equipped to have a rail gun, flame mortar, or a missile launcher)
Heavy Plasma Turret(can be equipped to have a plasma mortar, fuel rod cannon, or a heavy needler)
Mega Turret
Onager
There’s also the Cyclops MKII that SgCombine mentioned, the Prototype MK I suit I mentioned, and the Super Scarab(can take up to 9MAC rounds on easy in Halo Wars, although it is immobile, there only seems to be one, and was also destroyed. So this may not count as a vehicle that’ll be accessible).
So what does the USCMC have to counter?
How does USCMC Scoped Rifle stack up to UNSC Sniper Rifle?
@smeagolicious
Very good actually, got the Colonial Marines Tech Manual right here. Heres some specs.
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“The M42A is a 10mm pulse action semi-automatic rifle employed as the primary sniper weapon of the USCM…
Ammunition feed is from a 15 round match Rounds magazine inserted beneath the stock of the rifle, behind the thumb hole of the pistol grip. The match-standard batched M252 HEAP round has a maximum effective range of 2950 meters. A long-range stabilized ball round is also available, with an effective range of 3800 meters. The factory standard M250 smart gun round can be used with no adaptation, though it has an effective range well under 2000 meters.”
Colonial Marines Tech Manual
Pg. 25
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To compare, the standard UNSC sniper rifle has an effective range of around 2200 meters, and only has 4 rounds. USCMC wins in range easy. If anyone has any more questions about USCMC weapons I can probably answer them.
Hmm…looks like the stars from the USCMC had a thing for their buddies in boots while the UNSC perferred greasemonkeys and driver’s licensces.
Look at the Halo 4 elephant. It looks a bit larger than earlier ones.
(Or at least I think it’s the new elephant)
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halo.xbox.com/halo4 (How do I create links)
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And which capitol ships did you have in mind?
well how about shotgun match up???? what does the USCMC have compared to the Halo universe??? also what year does the USCMC universe take place cause halo is around 2525 best halo year
^
Its not universe vs universe, that would be too much of a stomp in the UNSC’s favor. It’s just 3 battalions each plus some special forces on each side. USCMC weapons generally pwn the UNSC counterparts, except for pistol and flame thrower, in those cases, the USCMC is hilariously horrible in.
UNSC base defense is pretty good, which could be problematic for the USCMC. Large triple-fireing 50mm(I think that is the caliber) turrets that can have flame mortars, dual gauss cannons, or missile launchers. I also wouldn’t doubt that Cobra’s would lay down some pwn, what, with 150mm railgun rounds.
“To compare, the standard UNSC sniper rifle has an effective range of around 2200 meters, and only has 4 rounds. USCMC wins in range easy. If anyone has any more questions about USCMC weapons I can probably answer them.”
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Not to mention based off the visual cues given in the novels and comics the gun can tear a man in half at close range due to the explosive rounds. I remember a passage in Aliens: Female War where Wilks nailed someone, unarmored of course, with the pulse rifle at waste level and it tore her midsection apart.
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Weapon to Weapons the USCMC are superior.
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Also I disagree that Halo’s flamethrower is superior. The USCMC one is much lighter allowing for faster movement while the Halo one is bulkier and has a much more exposed tank which one stray round can turn them into a walking bomb.
“UNSC base defense is pretty good, which could be problematic for the USCMC. Large triple-fireing 50mm(I think that is the caliber) turrets that can have flame mortars, dual gauss cannons, or missile launchers. I also wouldn’t doubt that Cobra’s would lay down some pwn, what, with 150mm railgun rounds.”
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There are way around those. For example the M112 Himat can take those out 5000 meters away.
^
I was talking about range, USCMC flame thrower 30 meters, UNSC 60-100 meters. As for the assault rifle, the M41A1 packs more of a punch than the UNSC’s MA5 series because of a heavier bullet/explosives, however, it has a lower muzzle velocity.
MA5C – 905 m/s
M41A1 – 840 m/s
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Scan:
img528.imageshack.us/img528/5829/m41a1.png
There are way around those. For example the M112 Himat can take those out 5000 meters away.
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Not when even a gauss cannon on a warthog has a range of 8000 meters >.>
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www.halopedian.com/M68_Asynchronous_Linear-Induction_Motor
“As for the assault rifle, the M41A1 packs more of a punch than the UNSC’s MA5 series because of a heavier bullet/explosives, however, it has a lower muzzle velocity.”
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The muzzle velocity difference is negligible but the results from the bullet differ drastically.
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“Powell who was rolling caught 1 of the slugswhen he came up in the wrong place. Wilks saw the mans head explode. When he was a young boy Wilks had once put a big firecracker into a watermelon. The effect of the bullet was much the same as what happened to the watermelon when the firecracker went off.”- Aliens: Nightmare Asylum pg 212
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Just so we have an idea of how much damage one bullet can do vs a 7.62 round.
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“Not when even a gauss cannon on a warthog has a range of 8000 meters >.>”
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1. Are wikis reliable? What do the novels/instruction manuals say on it?
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2. Fine they just blow the shit out of them with the M292 at 39,000 meters.
“There are way around those. For example the M112 Himat can take those out 5000 meters away.”
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Let’s think here. If a human controlled gauss gun on the back of a warthog can hit you out to 8km, think what the one mounted on the base turrets is going to do.
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“Just so we have an idea of how much damage one bullet can do vs a 7.62 round.”
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I hope you know that a 7.62mm round can explode a head too.
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“Fine they just blow the shit out of them with the M292 at 39,000 meters.”
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Does the USCMC have anyway to build more vehicles? UNSC bases can manufacture their own vehicles. Is the UNSC allowed to construct an airfield if air support is limited to pelicans? Do aircraft that are manufactured on-site count as air support?
“Also who said they have shields I clearly said weapons and some vehicles. Mainly scout vehicles like the ghosts and 1 wraith in their armor core”
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Considering BOTH wraiths and ghosts can be equipped with energy shielding. Do Jackal shield guantlets count as Covenant weapons?
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Question. Do the ODST squads get dropped onto the field?
@ReDruM
“2. Fine they just blow the shit out of them with the M292 at 39,000 meters.”
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What kind of firepower does it pack, is it a bunker buster? If so its not allowed according to the OP.
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“Both have access to artillery but no bunker busters.”
“What kind of firepower does it pack, is it a bunker buster? If so its not allowed according to the OP.”
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Its just an armored artillery platform. It doesn’t say anything about Bunker Busters in the book so I assume it doesn’t have those. Besides I wasn’t looking to use them against the base itself since the base itself needs to be taken intact to get underground. I mean’t to use them against the sentry turrets, tank depot, and their aircraft before they can get them off the ground. Or at least just the sentry turrets and most of the tanks. Once those are down USMC can then push in with tanks, pigs, Hoppers, and UDs to push the UNSC back and perhaps get a few men into the base where they’d dominate in a close quarters fight since their armor allows them to set off grenades and other explosives with no damage at ranges up to 10 meters. Plans don’t always go that simple but the USCMC has the advantage of range unless I’m missing something.
“What kind of firepower does it pack, is it a bunker buster? If so its not allowed according to the OP.”
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Not in 1 blow and it sure can’t rip a man nearly in half. I’ve seen what an AK can do due to the privilege of growing up in a TWC. I’ve also seen videos of men getting executed with an AK can it took 5 rounds to the head just to open it up enough for the brain to get out. The M4A1-E would blow your head off smooth due to its explosive charge in the round and rail technology use in it hence why even though its 10mm it rips through titanium alloy body armor like tissue paper.
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“Does the USCMC have anyway to build more vehicles? UNSC bases can manufacture their own vehicles. Is the UNSC allowed to construct an airfield if air support is limited to pelicans? Do aircraft that are manufactured on-site count as air support?”
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No. I gave them both what they can get. That’s it. Besides just out of curiosity how long would it take for them to manufacture a vehicle?
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“Let’s think here. If a human controlled gauss gun on the back of a warthog can hit you out to 8km, think what the one mounted on the base turrets is going to do.”
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I did not know the range of the turret. Lets not get smart.
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“Considering BOTH wraiths and ghosts can be equipped with energy shielding. Do Jackal shield guantlets count as Covenant weapons?”
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I know they have shields. I’m speaking of shields on infantry and no they don’t get jackal shields and it wouldn’t do them any good if they did get them.
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“Do the ODST squads get dropped onto the field?”
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Yes I already said they get dropped anywhere on the field except directly into the base.
@ReDruM
“I’ve seen what an AK can do due”
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Ak-47 =/= MA5
The MA5 uses a larger bullet (7.62x51FMJ) compared to the AK’s 7.62x39mm. Also, the AK-47 has a muzzle velocity of just 715 m/s compared to the MA5′s 905 m/s. In terms of kinetic energy, you’re comparing a rifle that fires a bullet with just half the kinetic energy of the MA5.
“where they’d dominate in a close quarters fight ”
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So you want to take the fight indoors. The place where UNSC soldiers have plasma weapons. Plasma weapons that give you 3rd degree burns from a miss. Ok.
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“The M4A1-E would blow your head off smooth due to its explosive charge ”
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The M6D would blow your head off smooth due to its explosive charge
“So you want to take the fight indoors. The place where UNSC soldiers have plasma weapons. Plasma weapons that give you 3rd degree burns from a miss. Ok.”
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The Carapace worn by USCMC soldiers has been shown to take at least 1 direct hit from a plasma caster at its lowest setting. A setting that blows a hole the size of a dinner plate through a modern armored soldier. Besides that they have the advantage of better armor, larger magazine sizes with grenade launchers, standard issue flamethrowers, better plasma weapons designed to destroy tanks ripping through their cover, as well as their own plasma weapons in the Plasma Caster which is proven to be superior to most Covenant ground weapons, The Blazer which is superior to all ground Covenant weapons, Smart Discs, and Plasma Sheathed melee weapons. So yeah.
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“The M6D would blow your head off smooth due to its explosive charge”
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That a pistol. Not comparable to a rifle with a 99 round magazine and an under-slung grenade launcher that can fire multiple types of grenades and can or cannot be duct taped to a flamethrower.
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“The MA5 uses a larger bullet (7.62x51FMJ) compared to the AK’s 7.62x39mm. Also, the AK-47 has a muzzle velocity of just 715 m/s compared to the MA5′s 905 m/s. In terms of kinetic energy, you’re comparing a rifle that fires a bullet with just half the kinetic energy of the MA5.”
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I stand corrected. However the M41-E can still tear a man an unarmored man in half. Also according to the the books they have armor designed that can resist the M41-E at close range but its reserved for special forces namely
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“At close range, however, this is a mean machine and you don’t want to be on the receiving end in anything less than full class-VII spidersilk armor or you get turned into blood mush.”-Aline: Earth Hive pg 150
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So pretty much if they have body armor that can resist the M41-E it can take blows from the MA5C and other UNSC weapons so armored with those they can be shock troopers. Plasma weapons might be a problem though.
“A setting that blows a hole the size of a dinner plate through a modern armored soldier.”
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A small burst from the Plasma rifle will take off your leg. A plasma pistol bolt will take off your head. Either of those will inflict severe 3rd degree burns if they even have a close miss.
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“That a pistol. Not comparable to a rifle
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That’s exactly the point. I’m trying to find out why you are so adamant about decapitation. The M6D can, the MA5C might, the BR55 and DMR probably can, the sniper rifle can, the shotgun can the machine gun can, the stanchion will tear your entire body to ribbons after passing through a few buildings, just about any weapon in the UNSC arsenal short of the M7 could probably take your head off.
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“So pretty much if they have body armor that can resist the M41-E it can take blows from the MA5C and other UNSC weapons”
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What’s the velocity of the M41-E rounds? Because it might come down to diffrent penetration.
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“A small burst from the Plasma rifle will take off your leg. A plasma pistol bolt will take off your head. Either of those will inflict severe 3rd degree burns if they even have a close miss.”
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1 shot on the lowest setting vs a small burst? No contest. Highest setting can vaporize a grown man. Predator weaponry is simply better. And that’s just the plasma caster. The Burner which is basically a classification of assault rifles which fire plasma or laser blasts is even more powerful. The Blazer even more so then that.
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“That’s exactly the point. I’m trying to find out why you are so adamant about decapitation. The M6D can, the MA5C might, the BR55 and DMR probably can, the sniper rifle can, the shotgun can the machine gun can, the stanchion will tear your entire body to ribbons after passing through a few buildings, just about any weapon in the UNSC arsenal short of the M7 could probably take your head off.”
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No I’m more adamant about the fact that the M41-E can and will rip anything in half at close range. Its no contest. None of Halo’s equivalent assault weapons stack up. Fact.
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“What’s the velocity of the M41-E rounds? Because it might come down to diffrent penetration.”
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Muzzle Velocity for the M41A/1 is 850m/s. However the M41A/2 is a later still serviceable variant which answers the problem of muzzle velocity and grenade launcher problems of the older models increasing the muzzle velocity of the weapon to much high levels enough to rip through Praetorian armor which the M4A/1 was incapable of damaging requiring anti-tank weapons to take down. The M41-E uses the same pulse technology but in a more streamlined fashion to make the weapon lighter, less prone to jamming allowing the full magazine capacity of 100 rounds, and increasing the effective range of the grenade launcher from 30 meters to 100 meters. So the things are pretty darn good.
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But of course like I said the Covenant weapons can probably burn through pretty easy. But they have to be able to return fire which is kind of difficult when you got a bunch of guys with auto tracking LMGs with 600 round magazines and heavy armor.
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How would the UNSC defend the inside of their base since we got the basic layout of how they would defend the outside?
Does the UNSC have access to the ‘M99 Stanchion Gauss Rifle?’ It could definitely help the UNSC’s defensive and even offensive capabilities. According to the wiki, (correct me if I’m wrong), it has a range of 4,5 km, while…well being a mini Gauss canon.
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“anything less than full class-VII spidersilk armor”
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I’m interested in this armour. Has there been any instances where it has shown the armour’s defensive capabilities?
@ReDruM
“How would the UNSC defend the inside of their base since we got the basic layout of how they would defend the outside?”
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I think their best bet is to keep all the guys with plasma weapons inside, their the only weapons that can get past colonial marine armor with ease I think, and they blow limbs off in 1 shot, not bursts…
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“Kincaide used the third man, a rioter, as a shield. He shoved the surprised civilian
into Watanabe, then shot them both several times with a plasma rifle. Keyes felt sick as he watched Watanabe fall.”
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“Watanabe groaned, and Keyes crawled over to him. The plasma rifle had ripped
through the ONI agent’s left torso, leaving a crisped mess.”
- Heres the important one.
“He grunted and kept forcing
the plasma rifle down until it was aimed at Kincaide’s feet.
He pulled the trigger, and a burst of white-hot plasma destroyed the
Insurrectionist’s leg and threw Keyes back, still holding onto the rifle.
Concrete bubbled where they’d stood, and Keyes felt the legs of his uniform
burning. He patted the fires out quickly, and looked back at Kincaide.
The man had lost his left leg, blown clean off at the thigh. He’d been shot in the
shoulder and chest.
Yet he now had a small pistol in his right hand, lifting it up to point it at Keyes
with determination in his glazed eyes.
Without hesitation, Keyes blew the Insurrectionist’s head off his body with a
burst of plasma.”
The Cole Protocol
Pg. 77-78
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I should add the burst at the end wasn’t really necessary to take the rebels head off, Keyes was just shit scared and angry, he probably lost a bit of control.
What it is sounding like is the UNSC just pounds and creates a no fly-zone over the USCMC base, then armor charges.
“1 shot on the lowest setting vs a small burst? No contest.”
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But the plasma rifle has a greater rate of fire. If effectiveness was based on firepower per round then we wouldn’t have any automatic weapons. We would all be running around with Anzios (20mm sniper rifle).
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“And that’s just the plasma caster. ”
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And that’s just the plasma pistol and rifle. The needle rifle apperently (however stupid it is) has some amazing penetration abilities, along with each round violently exploding within the target. The fuel rod leaves literally no trace of a S-III in SPI, short of two boot prints. Judging by the effects of the plasma grenade, the plasma launcher could take out an entire squad with a single shot. Then their’s the particle beam rifle, which is a sniper rifle with potentially unlimited range. If you can see the target, you can hit the target. Considering that these weapons are more than capable of pulling off kills, I’d say its pointless to say things like “Predator tech is just better.”
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“No I’m more adamant about the fact that the M41-E can and will rip anything in half at close range. Its no contest. None of Halo’s equivalent assault weapons stack up. Fact.”
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The Battle Rifle does. It almost doubles the range, has better penetration, and only lacks the explosive round. And yes, the Battle Rifle can fire on fully automatic.
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“Muzzle Velocity for the M41A/1 is 850m/s”
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Which gives the MA-series rifles superior penetration….
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“auto tracking LMGs”
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The smartgun may be a problem.
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“The smartgun may be a problem.”
-UNSC can just EMP it. Plasma pistols and the grenade launchers have the capability. Though I’m unsure if the launcher effect is a mechanic or not.
I’m guessing that the smartgun is EMP resistant.
The plasma launcher with its auto tracking targets would be useful against smart gun users. Are plasma launchers allowed or do the UNSC have no heavy covenant weapons?
He only said no fuel Rods or energy swords.
“He only said no fuel Rods or energy swords.”
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Energy swords I can see not being on the table, but Fuel Rods? The weapons that are in almost every mission featuring the Covenant? On the other hand, the USCMC has access to highly specialized and comparitively rare predator weapons………
So the USCMC already took out all the Base Defenses and is already inside?
No fuel rod guns are legal. I basically meant basic Covenant weapons but no swords but I only limited the vehicles to Wraiths and Ghosts. Im in the hospital right now so I will debate with you guys later.
@CH1C-No we’re basically discussing different situations to get a feel of what would happen.
“limited the vehicles to Wraiths and Ghosts”
Are AA-Wraiths allowed?
@ReDruM I see.
Could the plasma get through the USCMC armor? Also seeing as this is within tight places it seems foolish to use explosive weapons in such close spaces.
“Could the plasma get through the USCMC armor? Also seeing as this is within tight places it seems foolish to use explosive weapons in such close spaces.”
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The plasma could get through the armor. As for using explosives up close its a known USMC tactic to use grenades up close and personal in CQC since their armor can take the shrapnel. Basically they’d rush the opposition with guns and knives and throw and shoot off grenades then turn their backs to let the let the armor take most of the damage.
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“Are AA-Wraiths allowed?”
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What’s the difference?
@ReDruM I meant explosives like fuel rod guns, plasma launcher, concussion rifle, etc.
AA-Wraith: halo.wikia.com/wiki/Type-52_Anti-Aircraft_Artillery
Wraith: halo.wikia.com/wiki/Type-26_Assault_Gun_Carriage
The AA-Wraith is a lot more powerful than the standard Wraith. IIRC two AA-Wraiths seem to be powerful enough to destroy Forward Unto the Dawn(you had to clear out the LZ where two of them were stationed at before it had to land).
@CH1C4N0444
You’re thinking of this gun
www.halopedian.com/Mantis
AA-Wraiths are no where near that powerful, they were used to take out Hornets and Pelicans, not starships.
Since no one has responded, I’ll repeat:
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Does the UNSC have access to the ‘M99 Stanchion Gauss Rifle?’
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SgCombine,
He’s referring to the level where the FuD was supposed to land. You had to destroy the 2 AA wraiths before it would land.
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Does anyone know what their range is?
“Does the UNSC have access to the ‘M99 Stanchion Gauss Rifle?”
I don’t see why they wouldn’t.
@SgCombine What Dr.Twinky said, maybe it was a misconception on my part, but FuD wouldn’t land until they were destroyed so I assumed they were powerful enough to destroy it.
“Does the UNSC have access to the ‘M99 Stanchion Gauss Rifle?’”
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If its a currently manufactured and used weapon its available.
It was used during the Insurrection.
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If it is allowed, then it would greatly increase the UNSC’s ground forces, as it can shoot through very strong materials and STILL blow a human to pieces.
“Does the UNSC have access to the ‘M99 Stanchion Gauss Rifle?’”
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If its a currently manufactured and used weapon its available.”
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No, it was discontinues decades ago in the current timeline. The ARC-920 is its replacement, and its better anyway since it’s more portable (doesn’t have a separate battery pack).
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cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/large_lightbox/hash/3e/93/3e935e561ec35097f89322eb18d893b7.jpg
So is the UNSC starting to win now?
I really don’t know, we haven’t even really covered both sides completely yet, we haven’t even touched on the UNSC’s explosive arsenal (grenades, mines, etc) and the USCMC has some pretty heavy hitting weapons on their vehicles as I understand it.
@SgCombine The description says no mines. How would the UNSC vehicles stand up to USCMC vehicles?
I wish this match would get more attention, seems like it’d be a good one.
New here so sorry if I format something incorrectly.
The term battalion is somewhat vague, different military battalions are assembled differently. I’d like to try and clarify what is in a battalion because the USCMC and UNSC assemble their battalions somewhat differently.
The USCMC creates what are called Marine Assault Units as their battalions. The MAU core is the 2 to 4 infantry companies(for my estimates I will use 4 as this is assumed to be at full strength). These companies have noncombat support(not relevant to this scenario) and combat support in the form of a recon platoon, scout-sniper squad, and combat engineer platoon(unknown vehicle and equipment load outs on all of these). It also contains a heavy ordinance company and if space allows(in this case I believe it does) an armored company.
A typical Infantry company is made up of 3 rifle platoons and a heavy weapons platoon. In the USCMC’s case the rifle platoons contain their own heavy weapons support and therefore I will assume the heavy weapons platoon is another rifle platoon for the purposes of this debate. The typical colonial rifle platoon at full strength is 25 people a platoon commander, 2 synthetics, 4 pilots/co-pilots, 2 drivers, and 16 combat marines. The platoon is broken down into 2 sections of 8 marines each with a dedicated M577 APC and UD-4L Cheyenne drop ship. Each section is further broken down into 2 squads of 4 marines 3 of which are armed with the M41E and 1 with the M57 Smartgun. Each Platoon is also given a standard amount of support weaponry, this includes 8 M420 Incinerators, 8 UA-571C Sentry Guns, 2 M78 PIG or M5 RPGs, 18 M83 SADARs, and 1 M402 Multi-Launch Mortar.
A typical armored company is 14 tanks. A typical heavy ordinance company contains 6 towed artillery guns or 8 self propelled guns. The USCMC only has self propelled so it is assumed to be 8 M292 Self Propelled Guns. They also contain an unstated amount of anti-air and anti-space missiles.
Including the Armored Battalion I estimate the USCMC forces around:
48 platoon commanders
96 Synthetics
96 Drivers
192 Pilots/Co-pilots
768 Ground combat marines( 192 of which have M57 Smartguns)
84 Tanks(not sure of what the composition of light medium and heavy should be)
24 M292 Self-Propelled Guns
96 M577 APC
96 UD-4L Cheyenne Drop ships
384 UA-571C Sentry Guns(included as they are a large force multiplier)
avp.wikia.com/wiki/United_States_Colonial_Marine_Corps
The UNSC, as far as I can tell, builds their battalions similarly to the current United States Marine Corp(this is an assumption on my part based on the fact that they use the same ranks and that Bungie is an American company so to me it makes sense they would base the UNSC marines on the Us marines). A USMC battalion is typically made up of 3 rifle companies, a heavy weapons company and various support groups(not counted in this hypothetical situation).
Each marine battalion typically has 3 infantry companies, and a weapons company. Each infantry company is broken down into 3 rifle platoons and a weapons platoon. A rifle platoon is made of 3 squads each containing 3 fireteams which contains a rifleman, grenadier, automatic rifleman and assistant automatic rifleman. As I have yet to fide a portable light machinegun I will substitute that position for a marine with a BR55HB SR Battle Rifle. A typical Weapons platoon contains 10 marines manning 3 mortars, 13 marines manning 6rocket launchers, and 22 marines manning 6 heavy machineguns. I have yet to find a mortar for the UNSC so I will sub in 2 extra rockets and an extra machinegun.
A weapons company typically has a mortar platoon, anti tank platoon and a heavy machinegun
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The infantry battalion is also companied by a platoon each of tanks, amphibious assault vehicles, light recon vehicles, recon marines and combat engineers. I will count amphibious assault vehicles and light recon as various M12 Warthog variants as no amphibious vehicle was found. they are also supported by an artillery battery of 6 towed guns or 8 self propelled. I can’t find either so I will assume Wraith in place of these.
Including the Armored Battalion I estimate the UNSC forces around:
972 Marines (243 equipped with BR55HB SR Battle Rifles)
24 M41 rocket launcher teams 2 marines per launcher + 1 commander per 6 teams= 52 marines
18 Spartan laser teams, teams 2 marines per launcher + 1 commander per 6 team= 39 marines
54 AIE-486H heavy machine gun teams, 3 per gun + 1 per 2 teams + 1 per 6 teams= 198 marines
54 Tanks
24 Wraiths
24 Warthogs(should be more however that would lower the number of tanks available due to substituting in the armored battalion
3 recon platoons
3 combat engineer platoons
That should be approximately correct in terms of numbers of troops and vehicles. Sorry if I made a math error somewhere. The fact that Pelican Drop ships are standard in a marine battalion I think could hurt them drastically. To make this fight more fair I would add a couple of them to each infantry battalion. Also not knowing how prolific the Covenant and Predator tech is among the 2 groups makes me want to assume that it is special forces only. Sorry if this was a bit long winded but I felt it would help the debate to have hard numbers to look at in terms of each forces size and equipment loadouts.
Wow I didn’t realize it deletes all formatting when it posts sorry about that I can attempt to resubmit it if that would help you guys read it
Yea, the system closes in empty in lines for some reason.
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So you should use dashes to hold a line if you want a space there.
Holy crap Okovo…you are new here? Please stay o.o
So nobody wants to debate this anymore?
Hey nobody wants to debate this one with me? I payed 2 bucks to get this posted and thought this out pretty well to make it even.
Fair matches don’t last for long, in all the unfair matches however……….
Not much to debate when everyone more or less agrees on it. This match needed some fanboys to make it last longer, very strange how none showed up…