Suggested by lancer_AR
This match will be four of the main characters from two of the most popular fantasy games today. The Dragonborn and the Nerevarine from The Elder Scrolls universe going up against Garrett Hawke and the Warden from the Dragon Age universe.
Dragonborn is using his “default” armor and weapons and is a warrior class where Nerevarine is set up as a spellsword (due to my inability to find “official” art for Nerevarine he’ll be set up as he is in the picture).
Hawke will be a mage with all “default” gear while the Warden is a warrior equipped with warden commander armor dragonbrand.
Team Dragon Age has access to ALL abilities their specific class has (mage Hawke has all spells available while the warden has all warrior abilities while team Elder Scrolls has all dragon shouts (except for odahving and maxed out skills according to their class (dragonborn has all warrior based perks while nerevarine has destruction, illusion, restoration, and long swords maxed out).
Which side would win?
LOL, you fucking wish the Nerevarine was under-powered.
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He’s by far the most powerful Elder-scrolls character that’s ever been playable.
Ya I wanted to see the Dovakin vs the Warden and its good to see you too. I think people just like the Elder scrolls more so they side with those characters. I mean the Warden can fight pretty much a whole army by himself but the Elder scrolls characters struggle with a couple city guards.
Wouldn’t Side B’s odds of winning this thing actually be proportunate as to whether or not Side A carries guns or not, or if having the Amell Warden as a secondary option is permitted?
The Warden might have a chance to avoid the culture shock of Side A carrying guns, the other half of Side B, not so much if he doesn’t take cover in time, last I checked.
Just realized even under Become Ethereal Hawke’s gravity spell should still work on DB… Seemed interesting to note.
Which side has Become Ethereal as an ability, exactly?
@CC
It’s one of the Dragonborns Shouts.
@PooperScooper
So its a form of intangibility, in other words, right?
Sort of. He more or less enters a spirit form for a few seconds where he can’t deal, nor take damage.
In other words, Dragonborn can fight Eragon or Murtagh, right?
Eh, maybe if he had access to all of his shouts. The Dragonborn wasn’t really all that impressive to me. Kind of depends on his ability set, as well. e.g. My Dragonborn (a Khajjit, stealth, Bow and Arrow Guy), probably could. Due to my innate ability to one shot dragons.
One-shot a Dragon?
Where?
So all the shouts available for Dragonborn to fight Eragon or Murtagh with would be best?
“One-shot a Dragon?
Where?”
Crouch, draw back arrow, release. (aka max level, with max archery, max enchantment, and max blacksmith=Rape everything). I killed Alduin (The last boss) in one hit. The only thing that I CANNOT one shot is a legendary dragon. i can however, kill it with one hit from my dagger + crouch. ;D
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“So all the shouts available for Dragonborn to fight Eragon or Murtagh with would be best?”
Either that, or all Shouts minus Odahviing.
Or, hell, add Odahviing, and give either Eragon or Murtagh their respective dragons as well.
What sort of shout is Odahviing for?
Odahviing calls in Alduins right hand Dragon, (by the name of Odahviing), to aid the Dragonborn in battle.
Are we including Dawnguard with this? Fun new shouts there.
I’m pretty sure it was agreed that Dragonborn would be Garrett back in the Dragonborn vs Garrett Hawke thread. I don’t see the outcome of this being any different unless The Warden is just THAT beast.
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Sheogorath could use a match lol.
@Zol
Don’t see why not.
@Mad-Eye
Sheogorath vs Silent Hill could work, to see which side can drive the other to insanity’s edge, actually.
@NZ
The Warden IS better than Hawke, but not as a Warrior. If the Warden was a mage as well, the battle would be slightly different, IMO.
@Cross
That has potential lol.
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@Pooper
So Warden is more magic-oriented?
@PooperScooper
I did suggest having the Amell Warden as a secondary option if the Cousland candidate wasn’t enough to save Hawke.
Its better to just state the family where the Warden Candidate in question hails from to save us the trouble, as for instance Kite can fight it out with the Amell Warden and has good odds of fighting him in battle, and may even be able to beat him in kombat, but the Cousland line can actually hold their own on a frontal assault enough to fight off either Eragon or Murtagh if they go all-out and fight smart!
@NZ
Ummm… Think of it this way,
Rogue Warden > Rogue Hawke
Warrior Warden > Warrior Hawke
Mage Warden > Mage Hawke
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Not only does the warden deal excessively larger amounts of damage in each class, he also has access to more special abilities. In my honest opinion, the match would be more even if both Hawke, and the Warden were mages. If not, one or the other would probably have to roll a Rogue.
@PooperScooper
Which 1 of the 3 above would be closest in terms of hazards to bring to the table against their enemies, though?
“Ummm… Think of it this way,
Rogue Warden > Rogue Hawke
Warrior Warden > Warrior Hawke
Mage Warden > Mage Hawke”
Ah.
@CC
Depends on your definition of hazards really.
If you want to be nigh unkillable, and tank everything while whittling your foe down, Warrior.
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If you want to dead MASSIVE damage for the first hit, and relatively high damage for the remaining hits, Rogue.
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If you wanna have Constand High DPS AOE attacks the Mage is your best bet. In my honest opinion? Mage. which is funny. I’ve always HATED and LOATHED mages. Dragon Age: Origins changed my mind. My favorite class by far.
When will Mages have the sense to take nods from Mobile Suit Gundam and create something akin to the Newtype Funnel Tech, I must ask?
When the Templars quit raging at them.
@P.S
The Mages appear to be the only formidable beings D.A has to offer along with the Templars, if the Wardens or the resident Medieval ‘Nid Expies in the Darkspawn aren’t factored in, right?
Bummer that the former 2 essentially consists of Magi-terrorists of both types(Types B and A, respectively) if the White Council had to be sent to duke it out with those two in a 2-vs-1 matter, the White Council would have a field day, methinks, due to how bloodlusted they’d naturally get!
I’d play it out something like this…
If the Wardens were returned to full strength
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Wardens>Darkspawn (with Archdemon)>Mages (If every circle/tower of every country joined in unison)>Templars>whatever else
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HOWEVER, in a canonical sense…
Mages = Templars >Wardens>Darkspawn
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So far as the fans understand, the third Dragon Age will be about the civil war Hawke initialized between the Templars and the Mages.
@PooperScooperi8
So if I am hearing right, essentially the 3rd game will wind up taking place during the Civil War that was gonna happen anyway, that one with Magi-Terrorists vs Magi-Terrorists with even more Magi-Terrorists with the Grey Wardens and the Darkspawn caught in the middle for good measure, right?
What kind of bloody mess started in Thedas that would even flip off the D.F(Dresden Files’) White Council, I must wonder?
It isn’t for sure, but it’s strongly suggested. I mean it only really showed the dang thing starting in Dragon Age II. I’d doubt the darkspawn would have a major roll to play, due to the blight ending, and the archdemon being dead and all. I’d put the Warden’s involvement, minimum at best. They prefer to remain neutral.
@PooperScooperi8
If I even have to ask, you recall the famous line being: ‘If you Kill by Magic, be very Prepared to Die by Magic?’
Why do I get the nagging hunch that the Circle of Mages are particularly going to Abandon that rule outright rather than just be ready to bend, permit or make exceptions to the rule? T_T’
Seriously, if the Dresden Files White Council gets pit in group combat against both the Circle of Mages + The Templars, do I even need to word out how bloodlusted the White Council would become as far as both scale + scope’s concerned?
I honestly think the mages have a just cause for what they are doing.
@P.S
Maybe, but if they forget about who they are in the process, then what is the point if the price is their very sense of identity?
A lot of them did essentially do things that resulted in identity loss, fates worse than death or even worse than that.
Some of them even became as bad as if not worse than the threats of the month they had to fight, words don’t describe how troubling it may be with all those unfortunate implications going on. T_T’
Was Civil War truly inevitable, or could it have been prevented?
Not all mages will resort to using Blood Magic. I, for example, played as a Force Mage/Spirit Healer Hawke, who sided with the mages. However, I still hunted blood mages. It’s more or less the person that the mage is, when it comes down to them resorting to blood magic. I was UBER PISSED when the elf mage guy from the second one used it.
@PooperScooperi8
Sounds like a decent-enough interpretation of Mage!-Hawke to respect even without the occasional pet the dog moments.
If he were canonically!-speaking a father by now than maybe I’d….no, forget where this is going, You didn’t hear anything from me on this!
If you kill by Magic, you must be prepared to die by Magic, I get the nagging hunch that a lot of Blood Mages have forgotten this fact of life, and the moment you do is the moment you die for sure via Magic, anyway no matter what!
It can still happen even if you’re prepared to kill and die via Magic, but at least if you do both the odds of it would be significantly reduced. T_T
There’s also this to mention, not sure how relevant it is, BUT in the first game, if you decided to do the ritual with Morrigan (I had her as my love interest anyway), she has a kid that is an Old God. (Creators of the DA Universe). He would be about nine at the end of DA II.
@PooperScooperi8
There’s no telling if the Dragons themselves that the Darkspawn are after are actually Avatars for said Old Gods, Old Gods themselves or something entirely different though, so jury might be out on it, methinks.
In any case, I don’t think the troubles are gone to begin with, the cast is actually pretty decent, not gonna lie about this, but if the one thing uber tends to fall into the wrong hands(whatever the Mages may be capable of), then its not only spelling doom and trouble, but also a lot of bad deaths coming in for everyone in the way.
I learned from the Dresden Files for extreme reasons to not kill with Magic if it can be helped, not just the idea of any moral inclinations either.(although that’s most obvious!)
Note that while I’m still hoping the TES Side wins this fight, I’ll prepare my body if Side B gains victory in here, alright?
It’s actually revealed in the Legacy DLC for DA II, that the Tevinter Mages of old created the Darkspawn, as well as resurecting the souls of the dead gods as archdemons.
@PooperScooperi8
Have the Tevinter Mages become something sort of akin to the Forsaken from WoT or the Denarians from the Dresden Files?
Depending on the responses could dictate the levels of caution to be responded with, but either way the White Council would be feeling bloodshot if they hear about this.(They can’t get near tech in general, because tech after W.W.2 generally tends to go haywire if its not Magi-tech!)
That was A LOOOOOOOONG time ago. The Tevinter Magistrate is nowhere near as powerful now. That’s old magic, long forgotten. However, the mages in Tevinter actually do rule over the country.
@AmericanBadger
The shouts on their own? Crap at best.
Combined (how they are in this thread) ? Few can withstand it. No matter how much armour the Warden has, if the Dragonborn can slow time, remove his helmet and stab him in the face repeatedly, that’s a kill. Or just destroy all of it altogether with spells.
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Mage Warden would make things more interesting.
“No matter how much armour the Warden has, if the Dragonborn can slow time, remove his helmet and stab him in the face repeatedly, that’s a kill. Or just destroy all of it altogether with spells.”
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Hawke can surround both of them in barriers and shields, warden himself has can surround himself in energy to help protect himself. Warden is resistant to spells. DB in this scenario doesn’t have spells. Warden can also emit an aura of constant psychic pain to at least slow DB down.
Haste while not exactly a great equalizer should make them fast enough at least defend themselves better.
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“I’m pretty sure it was agreed that Dragonborn would be Garrett back in the Dragonborn vs Garrett Hawke thread.”
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Im not entirely sure but iirc that was before he was mage Hawke. That one was something of a balance interrupter since he has a few means to get around the shout.
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“Mage Warden would make things more interesting.”
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Well there still Hawke with Blood magic which should be pretty effective in harming the opposition from the inside out or manipulating there bodies….
Wow in my absence there has been another Dragon Age match. Yay, debate time… Whats happened in this battle so far
For this match to not be stomp tastic, but be fair for both teams, The Warden should be a Mage, all Mage powers. Hawke should be a rouge, all abilities. I’ll get videos of both in action
“Haste while not exactly a great equalizer should make them fast enough at least defend themselves better.”
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Elemental Fury will speed the Dragonborn’s attacks as well, making it unlikely for the DA side to defend themselves properly.
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“Hawke can surround both of them in barriers and shields, warden himself has can surround himself in energy to help protect himself.”
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Nerevarine has dispel which takes the barriers right out of the picture. The fact he can spam the spell renders the Warden’s chance to resist spells moot.
“Elemental Fury will speed the Dragonborn’s attacks as well, making it unlikely for the DA side to defend themselves properly.”
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Maybe not enough to block individuality but something with a large surface like a shield it should help.
Also along with the spell haste, Warden can increase his speed and attack with Blessing of the fade.
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“Nerevarine has dispel which takes the barriers right out of the picture.”
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Maybe one but the other is sustainable meaning it would pop right back up. Beside they can be layered so it would have to get through one to the other.
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“Nerevarine has dispel which takes the barriers right out of the picture.”
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Righteous strike allows him to drain magic, so assuming the projectiles aren’t to fast he should be able to swat them. He’s also has the ability to purge an area of magic for those and has a ranged attack that can drain power from Nerev as well.
Doesn’t the Nerevarine have Silence? Or is that an Oblivion thing?
And was it decided if Dawnguard stuff is included for the Dragonborn?
“Maybe one but the other is sustainable meaning it would pop right back up. Beside they can be layered so it would have to get through one to the other.”
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Dispel negates all buffs and debuffs in one cast, not one at a time. The touch variant of dispel can be used if the Warden has swatted spells of similar speeds.
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Nerevarine has spells to fortify his magicka regen, he can cast a powerful enough variant to negate the amount drained.
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Since the DB can quickly take out Hawke with Slow Time/Elemental Fury/Whirlwind Sprint combo after the Nerevarine dispels all barriers and uses Destroy Armour to leave him naked, both of them together should be able to take the Warden.
“Well there still Hawke with Blood magic which should be pretty effective in harming the opposition from the inside out or manipulating there bodies….”
Blood Magic was utterly useless in the second game. I’m not really seeing how using your own life force as mana in a 2v2 fight is gonna be helping anybody but your enemy. I think we need a change of class for the Warden, for this fight to be slightly more debatable.
Just out of curiosity, do the Shout’s count as magical in nature?
@PooperScooperi8
Balgruff tells you a shout is focusing your essence into a physical shape, and the Greybeards tell you that the Dragonborn must take the shout into himself to be able to use it. Its more like the Ki attacks from DBZ than magic.
Have any magic dispell abilities in TES countered a Shout?
@PooperScooperi8
Truth be told I won’t lie, I did suggest to Lancer to have the Mage Class Warden(with the Amell Human Warden candidate to represent the class in fact) as a secondary option before the 50 posts went to pass, in 1st page, did I not?
You could call it a sense of fair(albeit maybe not square?) play on the suggestion, if you like.
Wasn’t sure, so I did some research since I can’t access Skyrim right now to investigate.
Wards block them, which block magic. Yep, they’re totally spells.
@CC
It also kind of depends on whether or not the Shouts can be dispelled by magic, or not. I can’t remember if a mage has the better magic dispelling ability, or if the templar does. I’d have to check the Ability Trees. I vote for a change of Hawke from Mage to Rogue (I’ll explain this momentarily), and the Warden from Warrior to Mage.
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There’s a brutal effect in DA II called Class Comboing. e.g. The mage freezes a target, giving 200%+ Damage bonus upgrade. Keep in mind, I was able to one shot a High Dragon (Late game boss), using this tactic.
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And, that is without all of the upgrades for ever skill tree. So, Rogue Hawke Bamfs into the shadows, Warden uses ice blast on DB as he runs (Possibly entering a magic dispelling duel with the other guy), Hawke Bamfs back into existence, and one shots the DB, regardless of where he hits. I’ll run the calcs of base damage in a minute, taken from my Rogue Hawke, and add the extra effects. Give me a moment.
“Wasn’t sure, so I did some research since I can’t access Skyrim right now to investigate.
Wards block them, which block magic. Yep, they’re totally spells.”
Alright, sweet. That gives our DA characters here a better chance. Still working on those calcs.
“I’ll run the calcs of base damage in a minute, taken from my Rogue Hawke, and add the extra effects. Give me a moment.”
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Don’t need to. Become Ethereal makes the DB invulnerable. Hawke will try to one shot the DB, do nothing, just so DB can turn around, elemental fury him to near death than use the brand smacking new shout Soul Tear to make Hawke into his Thrall. The DB is canonically a Nord, who have a high resistance to frost damage as well (50%).
@PooperScooperi8
You also have a legitimate point, as well.
For some reason or another in general, something tells me that for future Hawke matches, may as well do a compromise with everyone and state sub-scenarios with each particular class in mind, as to prevent causes for heart-attacks I feel.
“Don’t need to. Become Ethereal makes the DB invulnerable.”
The Mages of Dragon Age (when uupgraded properply), have the ability to dispell the Magic of The Highest Ranking Demons in the Fade. e.g. Mage Warden could dispell The Sloth Demon, who imprisoned the whole Circle (literallly hundreds of mages). I don’t see how Become Ethereal will be too terribly important. Either A: He dispells it, or B: I suppose you could make the argument that since he is intangible, it might not work. However, Become Ethereal is a double edged sword, he cant DEAL any damage either. And if he just attempts to get close, the Warden can spam paralyze runes under he and hawke, that will effectively render the DB useless for a period of time. Warden Mage could also use Stone Fist (an Earth based elemental attack) for a Stagger effect, which gives the same damage bonus as the Brittle status effect.
@CC
That’s actually really good idea.
“Dispel negates all buffs and debuffs in one cast, not one at a time.”
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It’s not like a buff, It’s a barrier surrounding him, it would only be hitting that not Hawke, it’s like a wall. The other is also like that but instead being a cast spell that stick around for a bit, it is constantly kept up by Hawke, it would just show up again.
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“The touch variant”
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Warden pretty good melee fighter who happens to be able to drain spellcasters power with his attack, and can do spirit damage negating armor Nerev would be wearing
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“Since the DB can quickly take out Hawke with Slow Time/Elemental Fury/Whirlwind Sprint combo after the Nerevarine dispels all barriers and uses Destroy Armour to leave him naked, both of them together should be able to take the Warden.”
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Hawke could slow DB down with gravity, knock him back with a tk blast when he gets close, crush him in place, statue him from far away(petrify or freeze blast/also has the chance of shattering him to bit if deleivered a strong blow), place a glyph spell so anyone who gets close gets knocked back or paralyzed, put a hex cloud around DB so he’s assaulted with varoius entropy spells, or use a sleep spell.
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disintegrate armor can be blocked with rock armor so all that it hits is stones, which Hawke could always make more of.
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Dispel would only hit one barrier wall the other would be fine, and one of them isn’t a simple cast spell that has to be cast again when it’s wears off. It’s a dome of power that helps deflect attacks that’s being constanlty sustained by Hawke when he’s fighting.
One could be covering the other so I’m not seeing how the spell would get to both of them since it would have to hit one before it could get to touch the other underneath and/or Hawke.
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“Blood Magic was utterly useless in the second game. I’m not really seeing how using your own life force as mana in a 2v2 fight is gonna be helping anybody but your enemy.”
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He control bodies, cause them internal damage, or blow them up from the inside with it. How is that useless? He could also Heal himself as well, so that’s a could help.
Just trying to work with what’s given.
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“Have any magic dispell abilities in TES countered a Shout?”
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I think Wards work against the Dragon’s fire shout. Haven’t tested it on the other like the ones those Draugr use. I’ll try and see if I can find any info on them.
@PooperScooperi8
What does Stone Fist actually do (I have no knowledge of DA, and I just want to know to see if DB has encountered anything similar, which I can than test out).
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Spells travel right through the DB instead of connecting and just not doing damage, so I can make the argument that intangibility makes it impossible to be dispelled.
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Although he can’t deal damage, the first attack does connect, but it disables the form. DB can just connect a hit than use BE again. Does Rogue Hawke have any defence against attacks like Unrelenting Force, Ice Form and Soul Tear (rips soul from body and summons it as an Undead Thrall with all original abilities).
@PooperScooperi8
I wouldn’t be me if I didn’t try coming up with bright ideas, wouldn’t I?
“Become Ethereal makes the DB invulnerable.”
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Both Hawke and Warden have the means to attack him via spirit attacks. Also Gravity still has an effect on him and Mage Hawke has a few gravity spells he could use on him.
“Spells travel right through the DB instead of connecting and just not doing damage, so I can make the argument that intangibility makes it impossible to be dispelled.”
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The dispel attacks are Area of effect attacks. not projectiles.
“What does Stone Fist actually do (I have no knowledge of DA, and I just want to know to see if DB has encountered anything similar, which I can than test out).”
B moves, the spell will move to compensate.
Hurls a large large boulder at enemy, giving them the “Stagger” Effect, also has tracking, so if the
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“Spells travel right through the DB instead of connecting and just not doing damage, so I can make the argument that intangibility makes it impossible to be dispelled.”
He still can’t deal damage. And if he uses it to get close, as soon as it wears out, he’ll get paralyze rune’d, Stone Fisted, then One Shotted.
@PooperScooperi8
While I’m still rooting for the TES side to walk out of the bloody mess, learning about what Side B has to offer is starting to be a fun experience.
Never thought I’d see the day where its suddenly fun to do that in the main site itself.
Glad to be proven wrong in here, now if only the more ‘mortal’ half of Side B were facing Canon!-parenthood(biological or otherwise) via now…
Alright, so from what I’ve gathered, the most damage I’ve dealt, was approx. 14,000 damage. That’s adding several bonuses into account, however, there are some bonuses that I didn’t select. For example, Stone Fist is upgraded now to do an additionall 200% Damage increase, giving Hawke around 15,200 damage (My Hawkes base damage was around 600), Add in the additional 50% from upgrading the Shadow class for about 16000, another 250% from backstab (18000), and an additional 350% from the assassin/Subterfuge upgrades totaling around,21000. Couple that with a spirit damage enchantment, and assassinate, you’ll be dealing around 42,265 damage that bypasses armor. Ouch!
Keep in mind, this is very heavily rounded DOWN as well.
@PooperScooperi8
While I’m still rooting for Side A, nice!!!
I’d say I’m not impressed, but then I’d be lying, and I’d rather not lie about this, either.
Also, if I say ‘Its far better to have a well-done match where the only thing to regret is the circumstances behind it, than to have a nightmarishly bad match where only the circumstances are true,’ will you know that I am telling the truth?
Yep.
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Also, keep in mind, this is ENTIRELY IMPOSSIBLE to achieve in the game. You generally hit about level 25 by the end of the game, which if you distribute talent points right, can max out about 3 Talent Trees. Having them all maxed out is ridiculous.
@PooperScooperi8
Possible exception being fighting some kind of Cosmic Horror, in which case you’re forgiven, right?
P.S: Thank you for knowing I told the truth in there.
“Hurls a large large boulder at enemy, giving them the “Stagger” Effect, also has tracking, so if the DB moves, the spell will move to compensate.”
Boulder traps. Do nothing.
Same attack can also be countered with Unrelenting Force.
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Nerevarine has Cure Paralysation, so paralysis can easily be fixed. With full powered Nerevarine, the Resist Paralysis spell renders those hexes useless.
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Resist Magicka protects against all spell effects that aren’t Fire, Shock and Frost damage (which includes soul trap and drain health). The Nerevarine could easily Fortify his and DB’s health to stupid levels, and up DB’s attack.
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Nere and DB can still get close with the Sanctuary spell, which makes them more likely to dodge attacks. So I guess it increases their reaction speed (note that the limit for this spell is making you invulnerable to physical damage).
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Does Rogue Hawk have a defence against Ice Form and Unrelenting Force? What about Silence? And the Mage Warden?
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Tested the Giant’s quake attack (after swinging the hammer down, it creates a quake effect that makes you stagger) against Become Ethereal. Did nothing, which means DB is unaffected against staggering attacks. Nere can make DB lighter with Feather, countering gravity.
Still bugs me that the DB is stuck as a Warrior, but meh, I don’t care to change the scenario. Technically, team TES already won the set upon match.
“Same attack can also be countered with Unrelenting Force.”
Stone Fist is going to be twice as spammable with fully upgraded Mage Warded.
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“Nerevarine has Cure Paralysation, so paralysis can easily be fixed. With full powered Nerevarine, the Resist Paralysis spell renders those hexes useless.”
Spirit Mage Warden has Anti-Anti-Magic. Again, ridiculously Spammable if fully upgraded.
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Resist Magicka protects against all spell effects that aren’t Fire, Shock and Frost damage (which includes soul trap and drain health). The Nerevarine could easily Fortify his and DB’s health to stupid levels, and up DB’s attack.
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On the level of four High Dragons? (I’d pump their health to about the equivilant of an ancient dragon in Skyrim) That’s about how much damage Hawke would be dealing per hit. Minus a few thousand if Stone Fist was rendered useless.
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Nere and DB can still get close with the Sanctuary spell, which makes them more likely to dodge attacks. So I guess it increases their reaction speed (note that the limit for this spell is making you invulnerable to physical damage).”
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“Does Rogue Hawk have a defence against Ice Form and Unrelenting Force? What about Silence? And the Mage Warden?”
Neat fact; Maxed out Rogue Hawke has a 100% dodge Chance.
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“Does Rogue Hawk have a defence against Ice Form and Unrelenting Force? What about Silence? And the Mage Warden?”
Arcane Magic and Spirit Magic, combo’d with Blood Magic, and Spirit Healer Magic= Unlimited mana pool, and ridiculously spammable antispells, and dispells from Mage Warden.
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“Tested the Giant’s quake attack (after swinging the hammer down, it creates a quake effect that makes you stagger) against Become Ethereal. Did nothing, which means DB is unaffected against staggering attacks. Nere can make DB lighter with Feather, countering gravity.”
Doesn’t really matter if Mage Warden Counter-spells Become Ethereal. And the “stagger” effect doesn’t literally think of stagger. Think of it more like a standard status effect in RPG’s, such as poison, frozen, petrification, etc…
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Basically, these two characters were never designed to be maxed out. They would be too overpowered if that were the case.
@blue
However, yes. Given the ACTUAL scenario, team TES wins. My theoretical scenario just changes the favor slightly.
“Stone Fist is going to be twice as spammable with fully upgraded Mage Warded.”
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Unrelenting Force is infinitely spammable without game mechanics. (For proof refrain to page 1).
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For the Nerevarine, are we giving him the chance to use makeable spells, or only the ones that can be bought?
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“On the level of four High Dragons?”
Completely depends on the above question.
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AoE spells should take care of Rogue, as well as Slow Time for DB, with Resist Paralysis to let him enter close combat.
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The silence spell would do nicely against Mage Warden, Sanctuary and Touch variant guarantees a hit.
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Still wouldn’t touch Ethereal DB, who can just swing and say “Feim” as his sword connects or misses.
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Neither were the TES characters (hell, they’re not full maxed out here).
“AoE spells should take care of Rogue, as well as Slow Time for DB, with Resist Paralysis to let him enter close combat.”
100% dodge. He CAN NOT be hit. By anything. Period.
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“The silence spell would do nicely against Mage Warden, Sanctuary and Touch variant guarantees a hit.”
It’s a spell. It can be counter spelled. Maxed out Warden has AT LEAST twice as many spells to toss around than Neve. Some of them being insane counter spells.
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“Still wouldn’t touch Ethereal DB, who can just swing and say “Feim” as his sword connects or misses.”
Except that Mage Warden just dispells Become Etheral rendering it useless. And, the Dragonborn never showed the capability of deactivating BE mid-swing.
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“Neither were the TES characters (hell, they’re not full maxed out here).”
Except that DB has all his warrior perks maxed, and all the shouts except for Odahviing? And Neve has all magic maxed out + longsword maxed out?
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“Unrelenting Force is infinitely spammable without game mechanics. (For proof refrain to page 1).”
He’s not gonna be able to shout Fus Ro Dah 3-5 per second.
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“Neither were the TES characters (hell, they’re not full maxed out here).”
Oh, that’s why the DB max level was 81? So that you could potentially max Everything you needed to be the best *insert class name here*? In TES I can get every magic/warrior/rogue combo if I max out. There is NO way you can do this in DA. e.g. Unlimited Mana, infinitely spammable spells, 100% dodge chance, etc. There is NO way you can get those abilities w/o modding the game.
@Pooperscooperi8
The match is actually more interesting than I thought, in fact.
@PooperScooper
I could make the argument that by augmenting the DB’s weapon skills, they could guarantee a hit against Hawke, but than we’d reach the Unmovable Object vs Unstoppable Force Connundrum. Untouchable Hawke is untouchable, so I concede that with the revised setup, DA does win the math.
100% dodge is a game mechanic. Game mechanics are ignored. He may be VERY hard to hit, but it is still possible to hit him. Slowing time for instance would more or less guarantee it.
@Cananatra
You’re right. With the resist paralysis spell, team DA’s only defence against a physical assault (paralysis hex) would become useless. With the removal of game mechanics, Slow Time becomes instantly permanent.
So who is winning this fight, so far?
“So who is winning this fight, so far?”
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Dresden.
@Atomic Lowk
I figured as much!
(Dresden for the FPA 1+ )
Either that or Pyramid Head is involved and is apparently deadlocking this whole match without Sauron to keep him in check.
So before Dresden arrives with Orbital Bombardment, who was winning this fight beforehand?
@Mad-Eye
You still awake?
Also I forgot to ask about this, but was it mostly agreed on that the D.A E.U is permitted?
If it is, then while I’d hope for the TES side to win this overall, the match would take a turn for the more intriguing, that’s for sure.
I have to disagree about the fact that shouts are counted as magic. While it is true that wards block shouts like fire breath, they do nothing against shouts like marked for death. That combined with the fact that the illusion perk silent casting has no effect on shouting implies that the act of shouting itself isn’t magical, but some shouts produce a magical product. With that in mind, become ethereal is impossible to dispel, and that makes the dragonborn untouchable. Adding to that the fortify skill spells that the nerevarine can apply to him, the match becomes completely one sided. With a virtually invincible person that can deal massive damage, not even the warden could beat that. Ay best, it is a tie if the warden and hawke can survive the massive onslaught.