Suggested by lancer_AR
This match will be four of the main characters from two of the most popular fantasy games today. The Dragonborn and the Nerevarine from The Elder Scrolls universe going up against Garrett Hawke and the Warden from the Dragon Age universe.
Dragonborn is using his “default” armor and weapons and is a warrior class where Nerevarine is set up as a spellsword (due to my inability to find “official” art for Nerevarine he’ll be set up as he is in the picture).
Hawke will be a mage with all “default” gear while the Warden is a warrior equipped with warden commander armor dragonbrand.
Team Dragon Age has access to ALL abilities their specific class has (mage Hawke has all spells available while the warden has all warrior abilities while team Elder Scrolls has all dragon shouts (except for odahving and maxed out skills according to their class (dragonborn has all warrior based perks while nerevarine has destruction, illusion, restoration, and long swords maxed out).
Which side would win?
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Dragonborn vs Garrett Hawke 2: Electric Boogaloo?
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But srsly, initial bets to the Skyrim team
Two warriors with lots of spells/shouts versus a squishy wizard and guy with no magic at all?
Initial bets on the guys who can do both.
www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=512530&highlight=Nerevarine
www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=509262&highlight=The+Neveraine
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…
from the DB vs. hawke thread it seems mage hawke is on par with DB
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also a few things I may have forgotten when I first sent the match in are followed: DB gets all shouts save for the “call in reinforcements” ones, the magic nerevarine is using is the spell set from skyrim, hawke has all abilities associated with a mage (blood mage, elemental ect.), while the warden has all abilities associated with a warrior (templar, reaver ect)
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if I recall correctly don’t warriors have a method of canceling out magic?
“also a few things I may have forgotten when I first sent the match in are followed: DB gets all shouts save for the “call in reinforcements” ones, the magic nerevarine is using is the spell set from skyrim, hawke has all abilities associated with a mage (blood mage, elemental ect.), while the warden has all abilities associated with a warrior (templar, reaver ect)”
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So many things wrong with this scenario…
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Calling it now, spite match.
We should use a Fable 1 composite Hero…
The fucking Nerevarine? As in, the most powerful and most broken out of all the TES characters? Oh yeah, this will end swimmingly.
@darthgrim
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mind pointing out what exactly is wrong? I’ve limited nerevarine (possibly most broken character to have appeared on factpile) to later 4th era magic and gave him only what we see in the picture while DB is the same from his hawke match. Hawke is a mage with all abilities which according to plenty of people on factpile mage hawke is a force to be messed with while a warrior with all abilites has the ability to cancel out magic and resist things that would knock back lesser individuals
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if you can point me in the direction of it being a spite match I can try to remedy it
You’ve limited the Nerevarine to the Skyrim spells, by far the weakest of the Modern Elder Scrolls magic systems. Before this goes any further I have a question, having never played Morrowind, can this version of the Nerevarine create Morrowind potions?
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You’ve limited the DB to his shouts, minus the one thing that’ll help him here, he may as well just sit there doing nothing. His shouts are magic and thus can be cancelled, not to mention there is a much better warrior fighter on the oposing side.
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Hawke or The Warden stomp the DB with this setup and you’ve limited the Nerevarine so much that he can’t carry this match on his own.
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IMO at least.
@darthgrim
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I mainly limited nerevarine because next to the champion of cyrodiil he’s the cheapest character in TES series and I was under the impression that the magic cancel ability in dragon age only effected a fixed area (like around the caster and his/her party)
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I’m mainly hesitant to give nerevarine morrowind potions because that makes him a walking no limits fallacy
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I’ll swap out nerevarine’s current skyrim magic in favor of morrowind’s (levitate will be included despite not being under any of the schools I gave him)
“I’ll swap out nerevarine’s current skyrim magic in favor of morrowind’s (levitate will be included despite not being under any of the schools I gave him)”
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This’ll probably make it a better match, but I don’t know much about his magic tree in Morrowind, just that it is shitloads stronger than Skyrim, you’ll have to wait for some TES buffs to join in.
Aw, no Champion of Cyrodil?
It really should be Dragonborn & Nerevarine Vs Hollow & Arisen. At least it would be fair.
Vote for team 1, cause
1) In gameplay Dovakin solo.
2)Lore-vise Nerevarine solo.
@zolanius
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you realize the champion of cyrodiil is sheogorath
Ops, didn’t see the limitation for team 1, silly me. Still rules doesn’t say that Nerevarine lose his divine status, so he still powerhorse.
If we taken gameplay then result still the same. Dovakin solo…all. He’s broken even without any cheats.
Yeah, but everyone is in “default” gear. XD Just give him, I don’t know, the relics of the Divine Crusader or something! Pre-madgod status.
Dovakin use froze breath on Warden, then Nerevarine use time slow… and then i believe the end will come for team 2)
I’m assuming since we’re using the basic Dragonborn, he doesn’t have all the shouts? Like “Marked for Death”?
@rookeie
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direct me to the time slow in morrowind please
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@zolanius
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I said before DB with all shouts the “default” is just for their gear
DragonBorn most definitely because of his amazing fighting skills… he would kill Warden then Hawke would kill Nerevarine…. So DB would fight Hawke by countering the spells with his shouts.. then closing the distance and stabbing him in the face with an Iron WarAxe enchanted with all elements. Skyrim wins
@max
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aside from the obvious fails in logic I’ll point out the obvious stuff like nerevarine is still probably way more powerful then DB
@lancer_AR
“direct me to the time slow in morrowind please”
“while team Elder Scrolls has all dragon shouts”
Did I get this wrong, or the rules is different now for Nerevarine?
“aside from the obvious fails in logic I’ll point out the obvious stuff like nerevarine is still probably way more powerful then DB”
Lore-wise? Yes sir. At least he should be, it seems logical. But do we using his full power in this fight?
And why Warden in such useless class for this fight(no insult for the fighters, but he just not in his most powerful form)? I mean BM+AW class for him would make things at least a little easier for team 2(since he can carry a ton of magical enchantment for both magick and melee and still cast thanks to BM). Really in his warrior class he is the weakest here, at least in my opinion. It would be good if someone explain me his strong sides in this fight.
And which type of spell Hawke have for this fight?
@rookie
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by “TES gets all shouts I was refering specifically to dragonborn it was a poor choice of words on my part but the nerevarine does not get shouts
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from the (little) we’ve seen of the DB in the trailers its safe to say he’s not some invincible superman and that the only thing he really has going for him is the shouts so its safe to assume nerevarine is still generally more powerful
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I picked warrior warden mainly because I knew the warrior class had some nice abilities that could counter DB and nerevarine like the magic canceling and the ability to stonewall most force based attacks (somebody mentioned they have this ability on here I’d have to look it up )
“DragonBorn most definitely because of his amazing fighting skills”
no evidence of this.
@lancer_AR
“I picked warrior warden mainly because I knew the warrior class had some nice abilities that could counter DB and nerevarine like the magic canceling and the ability to stonewall most force based attacks (somebody mentioned they have this ability on here I’d have to look it up )”
Can Hawke or Warden counter this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofg1ZVuRopU
If not, then team 2 is…in problem, since one of them will be stunned for some time.
I mean in theory, AW should be immune to it(since thanks to his shield he exist in both world or something like that). But a normal warrior? Nope, don’t think so. I mean if we gonna judje only by gameplay, the Dova win, because you can make his basic…Fur Gloves as hax as you need(and rules tells nothing about upgrade for armor, so it’s allowd). Or we can simply say that Warden is the slowest of them all).
If lore-vise then Nerevarine have enough power to win alone even with limitation to his attack(i mean he is a demigod in the end. And that must(at least how I see it) mean that he has godly health, regen and power).
So for now team 1 have more then enough power for victory in any mode, at least this is how i see the fight.
You sure its not a good idea for Hawke’s partner to be the Amell Warden candidate(as an Arcane Warrior, of course?), since its hinted at that they might actually be cousins?
If you’re going for warrior, it better be Cousland at least.
What equipment counts as ‘standard’ for the Dragonborn? Are we talking heavy armour, one handed and block or heavy armour with two handed and block.
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If we are going with each character at it’s most powerful, as in max level, (in the Nerevarine’s case I assume this would mean max level without spending 500 years in jail to reduce his skills and then re-level all over again, of course I never did that in Morrowind…..)
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Because in both TES cases max level equipment would be Daedric with a smattering of Daedric Artifact’s. And Sunder/Keening or the Daedric Cresent are both canonically broken weapons in terms of their insane powers.
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I assume we are talking about max level because in Skyrim’s broken magic system the only useful spells are only available at high level. Level will also determine was perks are in use for the Dragonborn.
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Also what races are the TES people? This makes a huge difference to their overall potential.
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I suppose the questions regarding equipment are also valid to the DA team. I mean default? That really isn’t descriptive? The equipment you start off with? The middle of the game? End-Game?
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Since we are assuming they have their full spread of abilities and spells shouldn’t everyone be at their max level? And should therefore have the best equipment they could get their hands on (from their own games that is)?
@Reaper273
“I assume we are talking about max level because in Skyrim’s broken magic system the only useful spells are only available at high level. ”
Although I agree, I must note that the healing spells both Dova and Neva cast far more quickly and ofthen then Hawke’s and Warden’s healing spell(assuming of course that Hawke have one in this fight, and Warden have none if he is in warrior class).
Another few thought’s. Going back to Oblivion. Mehrunes Dagon was only sent back to the planes of Oblivion through divine intervention, Martin as the Avatar of Akatosh.
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Mehrunes Dagon got through to Tamriel once before. Except he made the mistake of breaking through in Mournhold and royally pissed off Almalexia (one of the living gods of the Dunmer, the Tribunal). Long story short she bitch slapped him back herself without much difficulty (Side Note – Vivec suspended a asteroid above Vivic City for centuries, perhaps thousands of years).
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Anyway the Nerevarine defeated a weakened Almalexia and was capable of doing the same to Vivec. He/She also defeated Dagoth Ur, the being who had siphoned away most of the Tribunal’s power into himself.
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Surely God-Slaying is far beyond anything any of the others has done?
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Though I’m not sure whether Arch-Demons count as Gods…
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Question: What Star Signs do the TES team have? Because Atronach seems a good choice (50% chance for all enemy spells to do nothing against them except feed them magika).
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Where are they fighting aswell? In the typical arena or somewhere nicer like a forest or glacier?
Clarification: Sheogorath tricked the moon into falling and Vivec stopped it. However, he did not place it back into orbit. So guess what happened when Vivec died?
@Reaper273
“Because Atronach seems a good choice”
I think Lord stone will serve better.
@Zolanius
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True. Though just never went into the detail and I called it an asteroid based on its size as calling it a full sized moon is exaggerating much.
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However my point was the Vivec kept the moon there for a very, very long time.
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Though I suppose given that it, the Ministry of Truth / ‘moon’ was canonically large enough to cause a super-volcano some distance away to erupt then maybe it’s small in-game size was just a technical limitation. Still if that’s the case it just makes the canon Tribunal, Dagoth Ur and hence the Nerevarine that much more powerful.
@reaper
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“standard” for DB is scaled armor, iron gaundlets, iron boots, iron helmet, steel sword, bonded iron shield
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“standard” for nerevarine would be what is seen in the picture there
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as for skills DB has maxed out heavy armor, block, one handed and light armor (so he has “even” levels of protection with his setup
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nerevarine’s skills are light armor, illusion, destruction, restoration, and one handed (long blades)
@Rookie
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For the Dragonborn perhaps. There weren’t stones in Morrowind though they were full birthsigns. And the Lord was kind of shit: www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Birthsigns
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www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Standing_Stone
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See the differences. But Dragonborn with the Lord Stone and Nerevarine with Atronach sign would be a good combo.
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@Zolanius
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Clarification
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Vivec didn’t die. He disappeared but the power he used to suspend the stone came from the Heart of Lorkhan (?) so when that was destroyed the magic faded and BOOM. Falling Asteroid. Eruption. Destruction of Vvandenfall. Invasion and general bad time for the Dunmer.
“Two warriors with lots of spells/shouts versus a squishy wizard and guy with no magic at all?”
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Warden apparently have magic regardless thanks to the darkspwan blood(guardian and Spirit warrior and a psychic ability due to Reaver).
Hawke isn’t really that much of a squishy wizard. wears armor his magic help to protect him from force, and he as a few defensive buffs to protect him.
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That said DB’s time slow is still a bitch to get around and the best option Hawke has here is Blood Magic and stacked defenses.
@lancer_AR
“nerevarine’s skills are light armor, illusion, destruction, restoration, and one handed (long blades)”
No Conjuration? Why?
Oh well. Nerevarine from Morrowind, so he should use it’s magick. Rally Humanoid, followed by Paralyze or Silence will work just fine.
@lancer_AR
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Thanks, what about level though? Do you want us to calculate the max level that the characters could be?
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What about level aswell? Since for the Dragonborn this determines health and potentially stamina and magika?
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For the Nerevarine the same applies for Health but assigning the attribute values for Endurance, Intelligence, Luck, Willpower is essential for determining his overall strength.
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This is the problem with ‘default’ kit loadouts and skill sets for RPG characters.
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Though I will say that this. The pick has the Nerevarine wearing Daedric (as seen from the pauldrons and the staff) with a robe over the top. So his skills and equipment don’t match up.
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Meant to add in to my last post:
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Another problem with previous TES characters (especially the Nerevarine but excepting the Dragonborn) is that they were intended to be master mages and warriors. So limiting them to something other than that is somewhat weird.
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Other than that all I have to say for now, not including any responses I may post, is that giving them max skills, at least in some areas, but not end game equipment strikes me as being counter-intuitive.
Forgot Templar, The warden would be able to purge the magic.
If I remember correctly can’t the warden be only ‘one’ of many things he has suggested to have been for this fight in order to win?
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Also with this templar purge ability does it involve a spoken word? Because if so Nerevar’s silence spell with stop it from activation.
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Sorry I have played Dragon Age 1 & 2 but I can’t remember much and don’t fancy creating a new game to play through to find out!
@Iron Lowk
“Forgot Templar, The warden would be able to purge the magic.”
Yet(since shouts just like… BM for example, is a different form of magic) shouts should work just fine.
I’m going with team Elder Scrolls here.
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Dovakiin (Dragonborn) can use his shouts to slow down time, rain lightning down, turn intangible, sprint at high speed, and send a shockwave of force at foes.
alright after some re-reading I’ll switch nerevarine’s gear that follows up with the skills I gave him
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nerevarine will have the sword he gets in tribunal (the one that was made for nerevar as a wedding gift) and the armor those guys in vivic wear
Initial bets on the Dragonborn,for his mastery of the Thu’um, but i really didint play dragon age 2, so i may be quick to judge.
@lancer_AR
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You mean Trueflame.
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It’s a nice sword.
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www.kennethduffy.net/img/Morrowind09.jpg
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That be the one.
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I think all things considered Team TES take this. The DA characters are solid contenders in an all round way but the sheer power of the Dragonborn and the Nerevarine is too much.
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Team TES FTW.
“If I remember correctly can’t the warden be only ‘one’ of many things he has suggested to have been for this fight in order to win?”
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Not that I’ve heard of. I’ve had more then on specialization before. other then that the scenario say all warrior. Those fall under the warriors.
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“Also with this templar purge ability does it involve a spoken word?”
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No. And I don’t even think mages use spoken words for there spells.
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Couldn’t Hawke use blood magic to either case them to only be able to face each other and attack like with there swords?
“Couldn’t Hawke use blood magic to either case them to only be able to face each other and attack like with there swords?”
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Couldn’t Hawke use blood magic to cause them to only be able to face each other and attack like with there swords or weapons?
People have resisted Blood Magic before–Hawke himself is proof of this. It may only be people of great magical potential, but we’ve got the Dragonborn, who wields Dragon Magic, which could be considered a huge magical power, and the other guy whom I’ve never heard of but probably should have.
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The Thu’um, if I recall correctly, also has Shouts to cause enemies to flee in terror, or become complacent no matter what, as well as one to make them go berserk. I need to check for these, as they might actually just be spells.
1) Kyne’s Peace: “The Voice soothes wild beasts, who lose their will to fight or flee.”
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2) Dismay: “The weak shall fear the Thu’um, and flee in terror.”
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These are the two I found relating to what I said I would find. I don’t doubt Hawke and the Warden could defy these, though.
“People have resisted Blood Magic before–Hawke himself is proof of this.”
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Pretty sure that was the mental aspect, she tried to command him to do something he had will to refuse. Hawke does more combat related blood magic like messing with someones blood, paralyzing them with it, or making people explode from the inside out.
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“The Thu’um, if I recall correctly, also has Shouts to cause enemies to flee in terror, or become complacent no matter what, as well as one to make them go berserk.”
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Both have skills in resisting attacks like that.
@Dr. Doctor
While I wonder if the Amell Warden candidate may be there as a secondary option in sub-scenario two for the match(otherwise they might have causes for facepalming on the fact they might not have been invited among other things!) I’m not gonna be hurt if I ask the following question, right?
Here it is: Did canon mention whether or not Hawke became a father, yet?
This is pretty much up to you to answer, I’ll be fine if Iron Lowk, Judge Jwlynas or even Deus Ex Machina answers this, anyone else and I might have to question it, alright?
@Anyone else not on the list:You ask me why I am asking guys on the list, and I’ll have to shoot you myself, got that?
“Both have skills in resisting attacks like that.”
I figured as much, but I thought it worth posting. Do the Warden and Hawke have counters to Dragonborn’s Time Shout?
“Here it is: Did canon mention whether or not Hawke became a father, yet?”
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Not that I know of. lol, Isabela as a mom.
“I figured as much, but I thought it worth posting. Do the Warden and Hawke have counters to Dragonborn’s Time Shout?”
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Other then staked defense like shields and barriers to protect them during, nope. Time will slow for them as well. Haste might help to speed them up but nothing so much as a resistances to hit.
I’m not sure, Cross. I don’t follow Dragon Age much outside the games. My Hawke, unless she adopted, couldn’t have had a child with Isabela, but that’s beside the point.
*to hit
Should be “to it”
@Dr. Doctor and Iron Lowk
Would it be better to ask DEM or Judge J(provided either finds the thread) as to whether or not Male!-Hawke’s a father, yet?
And if you must ask why I’m asking, I’d rather only Dr. Doctor knows the full answers on, but let’s just say it might affect plans in regards to Hawke on factpile, alright?
(Anyone else: Ignore the strike, you aren’t seeing repressed father Issues in here!*pulls out a neuroliser from Men in Black!*)
To a lesser degree or so it might also affect Isabela’s odds if she got on the site, too, which means I might not have to consider her vs Yuno Gasai from Mirai Nikki/Future Diary, but I digress!No one should feel impulsed to fight Yuno unless they got no better options available!I wouldn’t throw Atoli in there, so I’d think twice on it if Male!-Hawke’s a dad already!Also, a question: Is the Thu’um’s recharge time a gameplay mechanic, or is it canon?
@Dr. Doctor
I don’t know, the TES buffs out there might know, but I don’t know where Mad-Eye or MessMaker are, at the moment!
This is probably gonna take a while no matter who walks out of this field of the fight zone, right?
Well we better go ahead and start boot camping for the night so we can watch the fireworks, and pray nothing bad happens, alright?
I find this interesting because there is really only one character here I have not played as, actually. Mr. Nerevarine is the only real enigma to me.
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I am not supporting either side at the moment, though.
@Dr. Doctor
My brother and I did, we recalled from what we played of the Nerevarine, he’s no joke or slouch in kombat either.
Is it gonna be alright to admit while I might hope the TES side wins, I’m bracing myself for if the D.A side claims victory instead?
Like I said before, this is gonna take a while before any actual resolution comes up, right?
“as to whether or not Male!-Hawke’s a father, yet?”
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He’s not.
You know what Lancer? Fuck you! You made me want to play through Morrowind for the 50th time -_-
“Vivec didn’t die.”
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Are you sure? Because i remember tea-bagging his corpse profusely…
@Iron Lowk
Awww man!!!!!! T_T’
I guess I’m gonna have to delay the other set of plans worth noting with Dr. Doctor to plan out until the day Male!-Hawke does, either via adoption or the usual way, really.
“Also, a question: Is the Thu’um’s recharge time a gameplay mechanic, or is it canon?”
Game mechanic. The Grey-Beards shout you to pieces with advanced shouts like Fire-Breath and Ice Form, with almost no delay.
“Marked For Death” makes armour decay, stamina and health drop. Technically, it should leave their armour flimsy, their bodies tired and with a diminished life force. Don’t count out the DB, some shouts are pretty overpowered. Disarm comes to mind now.
What’s the battlefield?
“Are you sure? Because i remember tea-bagging his corpse profusely…”
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The ability to crouch has been grossly been misused in gaming. I blame halo.
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“The Grey-Beards shout you to pieces with advanced shouts like Fire-Breath and Ice Form, with almost no delay.”
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They take a break like the undead guys and use there fist until they can do it again. not really as long a break as DB does need but a break none the less. Not sure if it’s a game mechanic or not.
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““Marked For Death” makes armour decay, stamina and health drop. Technically, it should leave their armour flimsy, their bodies tired and with a diminished life force.”
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Both have spells or abilities to counter or remove the effect on them.
@zolanius
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if a battlefield is absolutely necessary lets go with the one form DB vs. hawke: new sheoth
@Bluefire
Its been a while since we last saw you on the fields of factpile, is it not?
A lot has changed since the last we saw your posts!
@Cross
Indeed. Been busy with IRL stuffs, and not many matches grab my interest :3
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@Iron Lowk
Actually, I saw a video where a guy got stun-locked by Arngeir, because he kept spamming ice form. If I can find it, it’s a game mechanic, if I can’t, forget I ever said this.
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Also, I’m not just going to take your word for it. What are these spells?
Well it’s my lucky day, I found something close enough ^_^ (the quality is terrible, I’m sorry)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=THd_7hO5ovE
Basically, if you keep your eye on the Greybeard onscreen, you’ll see he waits about 2-3 seconds until the next ice-form.
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The Greybeards use the 3 worded ice-form shout, which has a 120 second re-charge in game, in a span of 2-3 seconds. Which means the re-charge time is simply game mechanics, since they technically do need to stop ice-forming to actually try to kill you.
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Because of this, we can assume the Dragonborn can simply dragon rap the DA team into Oblivion.
@Bluefire
Care to check out some of the fights with Harry Dresden in them?
I promise you they’re actually very entertaining to read on. ^_^
Meantime, its looking to be up to the Warden candidate(either Cousland*Warrior origin being most obvious with them* or Amell*if secondary option is agreed with before the 50 post count passes* would be it) to see what they can provide since they’re armed with Starfang, right?
@Cross
I’ll give them a look, I’m not too familiar with Dresden, but FP is as good a place as any to get familiar.
Go ahead and shoot me, but I know next to nothing about Dragon Age. I was going to get Origins and than progressively play through every single game, but than a wild Skyrim appeared.
“Also, I’m not just going to take your word for it. What are these spells?”
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passive ability
Vitality:The spirit healer’s deep connection to the Fade lends the mage incredible resilience.
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Spirit Mastery:Drawing from years of experience, the mage channels significant power from the Fade, inflicting greater spirit damage and regenerating mana more quickly.
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Spells
Transmutaion:Dispel magic now inflicts spirit damage against any enemy using a sustained spell, and heals any party member from whom harmful effects are dispelled.
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Greater Heal:Heal becomes a tide of restorative energy.
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Rock Armor:A layer of stone encases the mage in a shell that protects against damage for as long as this mode is active.(Should be useful as a stand in for his regular armor, that way he can just get rid when it’s weakened and and call up more)
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For the Warden
Fortifying Presence:The guardian sheaths the entire party in mystical protection, granting each member a temporary bonus to armor, with strength and duration both dependent on the guardian’s constitution attribute.
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Second Wind:Long years of training grant access to deep reserves of vigor, instantly restoring nearly all of the warrior’s stamina.
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Passive abilities
Soulbrand:The warrior has gained a deeper connection to the spirit world. While Beyond the Veil is active, the warrior gains a moderate chance of resisting hostile spells, and attacks now deal spirit damage, bypassing enemy armor.
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Blessing of the Fade:The warrior is able to draw strength from the benevolent spirits of the Fade. While Beyond the Veil is active, the warrior’s chance of resisting hostile spells increases further and the warrior gains bonuses to movement speed and attack speed.
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Cleanse Area:The templar purges the area of magic, removing all dispellable effects from those nearby.
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MotivateThe champion inspires allies to attack with renewed vigor. The Rally talent now increases attack, in addition to its defense bonus.
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Resilience:The berserker can now focus the power of rage more effectively, gaining a bonus to health regeneration while Berserk is active, as well as a bonus to nature resistance that applies at all times.
“Because of this, we can assume the Dragonborn can simply dragon rap the DA team into Oblivion.”
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Well that’s definitely an advantage.
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What about Crushing prison, basically traps in crushing force while also paralyzing them. Would that help against DB?
Or maybe trap him in a bubble?
“What about Crushing prison, basically traps in crushing force while also paralyzing them. Would that help against DB?
Or maybe trap him in a bubble?
Become Ethereal helps here, basically making the DB invincible for short periods of time. What’s the bubble made of?
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@Lowk
A lot of those spells would indeed be useful. The only problem I see is that Slow Time will buy the DB valuable time. In conjunction with other shouts like Whirlwind Sprint to get close quickly and Elemental Fury to slash faster (makes a war hammer swing as fast as a dagger) this could be quite deadly.
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The Nerevarine, if he gets Morrowind magic, is just overpowered to hell. Ultra tier custom spells are town busting. He can instantly heal, anytime, as well as heal the DB.
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Alteration makes all elemental damage non-existent thanks to Fire, Ice and Lighting shield.
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Illusion makes both invulnerable to physical damage thanks to Sanctuary (gives them extreme dodge abilities) and gives him the Blind spell (blinds enemies). This school right here makes the warden redundant except to buff up Hawke, who even than will have a hard time dealing damage, if he isn’t already dead.
-
Destruction, besides the town busting super spells, can destroy armour and weapons (making the warden even more redundant) with disintegrate armour/weapons.
-
Restoration allows the Neveraine to instant heal both himself and DB, while using the fortify skill spells to make both him and DB godly powerhouses.
=====
DA has no hope.
Its implied if not outright stated that the Neravarine might have ran into an old Imperial Soldier who gave him an Old Imperial coin, said Old Man might actually be Tiber Septim(founder of the Empire) and said Founder/Ascended being was also a Dragonborn(one of the earliest before the one you play as in Skyrim, in fact!)
Which means in other words that the Neravarine’s a Bigger Badass than realized if he ran into one as ancient as Tiber Septim, himself.
I’m kinda little late here, My progress of 60 hours in Skyrim went down the drain because of some stupid saving so I couldn’t get that much in to the game.
Would somebody tell me if Ethereal can be dispelled, cause I think it can’t, most shouts are not in the magic category, they are some kind of stand alone magic so I guess some of the common effects that can be laid upon a magic is is not the same with a shout, I guess?.
@OMEGAMI
If I mention that the idea of Sheogorath vs Tricky the Clown has potential to work, would you believe me, true or false?
@Omegami:
No, I do not think Ethereal can be dispelled.
“The only problem I see is that Slow Time will buy the DB valuable time.”
-
Yeah, time slow is a really big hurtle to get over. The only countermeasure I could think of is either to paralyze, stun, freeze him. That or use there various barriers and shield to protect them during.
Some preventive measures they could take before hand I could think of
—
Protection
Barrier:The mage or an ally is enveloped in a telekinetic field that repels significant damage.(arcane fortress make it immune to damage)
-
Arcane Shield:The mage conjures a protective aura that deflects incoming attacks for as long as this mode is active.
Elemental Shield:Arcane Shield now absorbs a portion of elemental attacks as well.
Arcane Wall:Arcane Shield’s protection now envelops all party members.
-
Guardian’s Shield:The guardian, dedicated to protecting allies, builds a shield around a party member that absorbs an amount of damage based on the guardian’s constitution attribute. Master Guardian increases the strength of the shield.
-
Rock armor
—
Some offensive maneuvers
Glyph of Paralysis or Glyph of repulsion(place it under them so when he tries to close the distance he end up getting paralyzed or under him before he does the slow. Or pushes him back)
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Pull of the a Abyss(Place it so it would be hard for him to get close)
The mage conjures a maelstrom of energy that draws enemies to its center while slowing them to a crawl.
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Gravitic Ring(slows him down so that even during the TS he wouldn’t be moving that fast giving them time to get a hit in or do something else)
The mage redirects the gravity in an area to significantly reduce enemies’ speed. The closer an enemy is to the center of the spell, the greater the effect.
Misdirection Hex(makes it so that even if he could get a hit during he might miss and also slows down attacks)
The mage casts a blinding spell that makes an enemy likely to miss and prevents it from inflicting critical hits.
Misdirection Hex now also beleaguers an enemy with fatigue, slowing the speed of attacks.
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Hemorrage(effecting him even if he does the T.S.while possibly paralyzing him)
This spell corrupts the blood of all foes in the targeted area, inflicting damage over a short duration without regard for enemy armor or damage resistance.
Hemorrhage now inflicts more damage and immobilizes some enemies.
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Tempset(lightning would be striking down which still should be moving pretty fast even during the slow)
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Entropic Cloud(put it up around them so DB gets hurt trying to get close)
The mage afflicts a foe with lesser forms of all entropic spells. This chaotic energy swirls into a cloud that also affects other enemies near the target.
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Frightening Appearance(could keep someone from coming close to the warden
This talent focuses the Reaver’s unsettling countenance into a weapon, making a target cower in fear unless it passes a mental resistance check.
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Aura of Pain(psyhcic damage even while the T.S., could probably help to slow then done or just work as a mean of attack during)
Radiating an aura of psychic pain, the reaver takes constant spirit damage while this mode is active, as do all enemies nearby.
===
“He can instantly heal, anytime, as well as heal the DB.”
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I think both he and Hawke are capable of this.
===
“Illusion makes both invulnerable to physical damage thanks to Sanctuary (gives them extreme dodge abilities) and gives him the Blind spell (blinds enemies).”
-
Warden has a few other means of attack other then physical. Like Psychic, his attacks can drains magic from people, and has a few ranged abilities that don’t fall under elemental.
===
“Restoration allows the Neveraine to instant heal both himself and DB, while using the fortify skill spells to make both him and DB godly powerhouses.”
-
Pretty sure it’s the same with Hawke.
===
That’s about all I got.
This is gonna take longer than I thought, isn’t it?
Next up, Amell Warden candidate vs Murtagh of Inheritance, anyone?
Not sure how long that idea would take, but if it would bring AHEM back…
So have both sides reached Over 9000 power levels?
@Lowk
Just like how DA team has dispel magics and mana damage, so does the Nerevarine have dispel and magicka. But for the damage magicka/mana attacks, wouldn’t they do nothing against the other, since they both have different energy pools (why would a Damage Mana spell affect magicka and vice versa)
—–
Also, the DB’s shouts don’t work on magicka, which still makes him a tough contender. The Nerevarine’s magicka regenerates at a stupid rate anyways at higher levels.
—-
Question. Are all these spells available to the Hawke and Warden we’re using? I’ve read something about a Reaver, aren’t we just using a warrior class? (please enlighten me, I haven’t played DA, and there’s no point doing research when I’m not sure what I’m looking for)
—-
Also, for the paralysis glyphs, are they visible? Because than the DB has encountered something similar in Skyrim.
—-
The Gravity Ring still wouldn’t have much of an effect to Whirlwind Sprint, since the DB is being carried by energy instead of just running really fast. It would cancel Elemental Fury though, making him swing normally. But the Nerevarine could just buff his attack skill to be ridiculous.
—-
The Nerevarine can counter the Misdirection Hex with either dispel or a buff to DB’s weapon skill, which would make him more accurate.
—-
DB has something almost exactly the same to Tempest with Storm Call (also now spammable)
—-
Aura of Pain seems a bit too dangerous to work in this scenario, since neither side can spare to take any damage, since both deal stupid amounts of it.
—-
How do the mana reserves of the DA team work? Does it regenerate quickly, or do they have to wait a good amount of time to start casting spells again? Because DB doesn’t have to worry, while Nerevarine can regenerate magicka pretty quickly, and if he needs to, absorb DB’s with magic.
=====
@Cross
This is going to take a while, unless team DA can pull off a coup de grace attack that could instantly put down either player from team TES, since TES already “sort of” has one with the DB’s shout spam combo.
Sorry for the double post…
But does team DA have a counter against the Blind spell? That seems like a pretty big game breaker.
“But for the damage magicka/mana attacks, wouldn’t they do nothing against the other, since they both have different energy pools (why would a Damage Mana spell affect magicka and vice versa)”
-
They don’t seem to be that different from what I can tell. Both seem to just be a measure of power with each of them being able to affect the world.
===
“Question. Are all these spells available to the Hawke and Warden we’re using? I’ve read something about a Reaver, aren’t we just using a warrior class?”
-
Reaver is apart of the Warrior class. As is templar, spirit warrior, Berserker, and champion.
Same with Hawke, they all fall under the mage class and it specializations.
===
“Also, for the paralysis glyphs, are they visible? Because than the DB has encountered something similar in Skyrim.”
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I don’t know if they are visible to everyone else since no one seems to run around them.
===
“But the Nerevarine could just buff his attack skill to be ridiculous.”
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Hawke’s dispel can harm enemies it as well as removing the effect on them.
===
“DB has something almost exactly the same to Tempest with Storm Call (also now spammable)”
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Hawke’s is a bit more focused and can be used to avoid friendly fire… and it doesn’t add up a bounty when you accidentally set it off in a city. damn button.
===
“Aura of Pain seems a bit too dangerous to work in this scenario, since neither side can spare to take any damage, since both deal stupid amounts of it.”
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Well he’s also got resilience which helps with regenerating health.
Also torrent of pain seems to be apart of current reaver ability which reduce the damage dine to himself while adding the damage to the enemy.
===
“How do the mana reserves of the DA team work? Does it regenerate quickly, or do they have to wait a good amount of time to start casting spells again?”
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It recovers at a pretty quick. With Arcane mastery it evocers quicker and his armor also ads to his recovery as well.
===
“while Nerevarine can regenerate magicka pretty quickly, and if he needs to, absorb DB’s with magic.”
-
Hawke as well knows how to absorb power from other people.
===
“This is going to take a while, unless team DA can pull off a coup de grace attack that could instantly put down either player from team TES”
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Best bet for that would be Hawkes Blood magic. He can control them using their blood, corrupt thier blood to harm them, and cause people to explode using thier blood.
Unless he was doing something like trying to subjugate them mental, the only why to defend against it would be to
===
“But does team DA have a counter against the Blind spell? That seems like a pretty big game breaker.”
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Shields/barriers to block it, Cover of rock to keep it from hitting him, I think both have a passive defese against spells working on them(might just be Warden due to templar status), and both have a form of dispelling it(Hawke’s actually can heal as it dispels HImself/allies)
“But for the damage magicka/mana attacks, wouldn’t they do nothing against the other, since they both have different energy pools (why would a Damage Mana spell affect magicka and vice versa)”
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Fair enough. Nerevarine’s can basically drain arch-mages dry with one cast.
===
Oh I get it now. See they’re all sub-classes of the same class. Helpful.
===
“Also, for the paralysis glyphs, are they visible? Because than the DB has encountered something similar in Skyrim.”
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Do opponents cast these spells?
===
Nerevarine’s dispel doesn’t harm, but it also completely negates all buffs and debuffs. A quick heal will solve the damage though.
===
“Hawke’s is a bit more focused and can be used to avoid friendly fire… and it doesn’t add up a bounty when you accidentally set it off in a city. damn button.”
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The 3 word version is more accurate, but not as accurate as Tempest (watched a video). Still, it’s powerful enough to take half the health of base dragons (a huge feat).
===
“It recovers at a pretty quick. With Arcane mastery it evocers quicker and his armor also ads to his recovery as well.”
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Remember, because of Nerevarine’s disintegrate armour and weapons, team DA is naked and disarmed.
===
“Hawke as well knows how to absorb power from other people.”
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Is it limited in any way? If not, than Hawke and Nerevarine will end up endlessly absorbing from each other.
===
“Best bet for that would be Hawkes Blood magic. He can control them using their blood, corrupt thier blood to harm them, and cause people to explode using thier blood.
Unless he was doing something like trying to subjugate them mental, the only why to defend against it would be to”
-
Conveniently left out how to defend against it I see XD
Totally forgot about Nerevarine’s Silence spell. In Morrowind, it doesn’t look like they say anything, just use their hands to cast spells, but silence still stops spells from being used. This could make Hawke fairly weak, coupled with the disintegrate spells, make the Warden useless. Would a strong constitution help to protect against Blood Magic?
===
For the Blind counters, it depends on the terrain whether there’s rock cover. Disabling them with ice-form or unrelenting force will make the spell easy to hit. Do the shields and barriers specifically block all magic? And does the dispel ability have to be targeted first?
@Bluefire
Initial bets says ths might take weeks to deal with, wouldn’t it?
“Do opponents cast these spells?”
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Not that I recall. I try searching see if any of them have but I’ve never seen them do so.
===
“Remember, because of Nerevarine’s disintegrate armour and weapons, team DA is naked and disarmed.”
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Well the both have barriers surrounding them. Hawke has rock armor that could take the it instead of his armor or weapon if it gets through the barriers and Warden has a chances hostile spells not working.
Also wouldn’t the Warden ability to drain magic with his attacks be useful if he attacked the spell as it was coming?
===
“Is it limited in any way? If not, than Hawke and Nerevarine will end up endlessly absorbing from each other.”
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Doesn’t seem so, Mages can drain power from both living and dead people.
===
“Conveniently left out how to defend against it I see XD”
-
Thought I finished that.
“the only why to defend against it would be to be blood less like a skeleton or something”
Sorry for the cliffhanger.
===
“This could make Hawke fairly weak, coupled with the disintegrate spells, make the Warden useless.”
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Both Warden and Hawke have a dispel ability and Wardens doesn’t require magic so it would be useless on him. Hawke would still be able use his staff to blast stuff.
===
“For the Blind counters, it depends on the terrain whether there’s rock cover.”
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I meant Hawke’s ability to pull up the earth and have it floating around him which he could use as cover.
=
“Disabling them with ice-form or unrelenting force will make the spell easy to hit.”
-
Elemental shield would help with the ice power. Freezing people is part of the basic elemental attack. And this Passive ability should help with U-force
- Unshakable-
The mage suppresses the physical and elemental force of incoming attacks, becoming nearly immune to knockdown or other effects that interrupt combat.
-For the Warden: Shield Expertise-
The character’s experience using a shield in combat has made certain abilities more efficient, increasing the defense bonus for Shield Defense and making the character immune to direct knockdown attacks while using Shield Wall.
Combined with the barrier buff each could have should help defend against those.
===
“Do the shields and barriers specifically block all magic?”
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Barrier/Arcane fortress seem to, Arcane shield helps in deflecting.
===
“And does the dispel ability have to be targeted first?”
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Hawke’s targets an area. Warden I believe is an AoE around him.
Yeah, I see this taking a while after all!
@Cross
This will last as long as we got counters. And thanks to the Morrowind spell list, there’s infinite possibilities.
===
@Lowk
“Well the both have barriers surrounding them. Hawke has rock armor that could take the it instead of his armor or weapon if it gets through the barriers and Warden has a chances hostile spells not working.”
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From my research, all the barriers and shield spells protect from actual attacks. Disintegrate armour deals no damage to the wearer, it just destroys the armour. The only one that would serve to protect against it would be arcane shield, but dispel than disintegrate armour than weapons works just fine too. This isn’t just a debuff, in the game, if you get hit with these spells enough, you’re weapons break and become useless. Hit too much, and you lose the item. Can’t dispel having your clothes and sword/axe/hammer/staff eaten away by magic. Rock armour would be a viable tactic, but there’s no cooldown on the spell and they’re fairly cheap magicka wise for what they do.
===
“Also wouldn’t the Warden ability to drain magic with his attacks be useful if he attacked the spell as it was coming?”
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If Nerevarine uses the ranged variant. He could just turn invisible, dispel on target, cast blind on target, than uses the touch variant of disintegrate armour and weapons.
===
What’s the chance spells won’t work on the warden? From what I found, would it be around 40%? That still wouldn’t stop the spells from working if the Nerevarine casts it 6 or 7 times. And once it does, the fight becomes R18+
===
“Both Warden and Hawke have a dispel ability and Wardens doesn’t require magic so it would be useless on him. Hawke would still be able use his staff to blast stuff.”
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Than the Silence spell is a bit meh than.
===
“I meant Hawke’s ability to pull up the earth and have it floating around him which he could use as cover.”
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Unrelenting force could solve this issue while dealing damage to team DA (I mean the rocks flying right at them)
===
So unrelenting force is useless on the actual characters. Unless disintegrate armour destroys the warden’s shield, than he can’t protect against it without buffs. Same deal with the buffs for ice-form.
===
“Hawke’s targets an area. Warden I believe is an AoE around him.”
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Which means Blind will have a negligible effect, and none at all on the Warden.
===
Dispel looks like it’s the main spell here XD In case you’re wondering, all hostile Morrowind spells have a flying and touch variant.
@Bluefire
Fair enough.
As far as I’m aware, the only weapon the D.A side might bring to the table that’s indestructible would be weapons like Starfang, but other than that…I don’t know what else they’d got that’d canonically qualify as indestructible equipment, really.
So anyone else want in on the match thus far?
“Rock armour would be a viable tactic, but there’s no cooldown on the spell and they’re fairly cheap magicka wise for what they do.”
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Well rock armor does show he can control multiple pieces of earth at the same time, couldn’t he just hold up a piece one after the other in the fallen’s place?
===
“than uses the touch variant of disintegrate armour and weapons.”
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He has a few AoE attacks like fade burst, War cry/Superiority, and holy smite(useful since it can add additional harm to depending on how much magic it take). These could e used to keep him from getting close.
===
Can I give up? I didn’t want to just leave with argument present without acknowledging it but I just really don’t feel like arguing for DA side anymore.
I think I’ve done enough that it’s not like stomp or anything for elder scrolls right? Cuz that pretty much the extent to what I’d thought I’d accomplish.
@Lowk
“Well rock armor does show he can control multiple pieces of earth at the same time, couldn’t he just hold up a piece one after the other in the fallen’s place?”
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Which will leave him locked, and at the mercy of the DB (assuming the Warden already got taken out).
===
“He has a few AoE attacks like fade burst, War cry/Superiority, and holy smite(useful since it can add additional harm to depending on how much magic it take). These could e used to keep him from getting close.”
-
This the invisibility.
===
The fight is in now way a stomp. Thank you though, my first debate in a long time and you made it memorable :3
===
@Cross
Read a few Dresden matches. You’re right, they are entertaining. It does look like Lowk was the only one, and he gave up.
So TES for FPA?
“@OMEGAMI
If I mention that the idea of Sheogorath vs Tricky the Clown has potential to work, would you believe me, true or false?”
-
That would just get people thinking “Tricky? Who is that?”.
___
“Hawke as well knows how to absorb power from other people.”
-
Luckily the DB can use shouts wich are not magic based attacks.
Dragon Age would rape Elder Scrolls. The Warden is so damn powerful and Hawke is almost as good. The Dovakins shouts and powers suck for the most part, have very limited range and duration and from what I remember by playing Morrawind the Nerevind or whatever, is a very under powered and undefined character. Not to mention the Dragon age characters are much more skilled in physical combat.
Also I say that the Warden should be changed to a Rouge. If so it would be a stomp, especially if he’s given the powers from Awakening.
American Badger came back. Good to see ya man.