Suggested by MrTBSC
Samus Aran arrives from the Metroid franchise to fight the Tyranid Carnifex Old One Eye from the WH40k Franchise.
Samus comes with fully equiped upgrades from Other M and Coruption (no PED/phazon).
Old One Eye comes with his standart Equipment.
Battlefield:
Coloseum of Sakaar
Fight goes till one is knocked out or killed.
Who wins?
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Old One Eye was able to regenerate from a plasma blast to the eye and has enormous regeneration capabilities as well as physical capabilities far beyond most other Carnfiexes
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Thats as far as my knowledge on him goes
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Given the arena he should have a somethingth of a chance to close the distance and bust Samus up, but given Samus’ ranged weapons, Im guessing she’d have an innate advantage
first….Awa damn!
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Samas still is one of the best characters on this site, but i’ve no very little of old one eye to judge. By the way how did mother brain beat both Samas and MC?
I don’t know a whole lot about these guys but I would say that Old One Eye would win unless Samus Aran can continually put the tank down from time to time to find his weakness which would probably be exploited by an energy-based weapon. Thinking through now OOE, from memory, usually backs out of battle after receiving potential mortal wounds so in this sense it’s possible that he could die from continual unremitting attacks to certain weak spots on and in his body. Not sure on either of the ideas. Some clarity from fanboys of either side would be helpful.
Going to pop a little something I found on KMC. Unfortunately I have no page number, but a regular Carnifex survives a cyclonic torpedo bombardment (albiet with very heavy injuries) and regenerates (admittedly in a dormant state), survivng an Exterminatus (planetary bombardment) basically in one of the codexes
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i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/exterminatus.jpg
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Said Carnifex being inferior to Old One Eye in all aspects physically. And having inferior regeneration to him to boot
And that Carnfiex wasn’t one of the super regenerative ones (even the super regenerative ones are inferior to Old One Eye in that respect)
Spammy spammy Nova/plasma beam and fried innards, anyone?
Regeneration was brought up in Samus vs Wolverine. And Ridley vs Wolverine. It was decided that both Metroid characters won because they could disintegrate him over and over and over. The reason why it had to be like that is because of the adamantium skeleton. No my knowledge, One Eye has no such thing. So what’s preventing Samus from turning this guy to ash?
well Samus has amazing dodging skills but Old One Eye is definitely stronger…. so my bet is on Samus….. cause well she could just keep running and firing while OOE tries to get her…
Hard to decide…i just don’t know if Samus have enough power to put OOE down for good before he can reach her.
There’s just too little info about him and his limits.
StealthRanger, good find there. It’s interesting because akin to one story aforementioned we see that OOE is put out of action for a while from a plasma shot through the eye and into the cranium consequentially mashing brain matter but in another he is nearly just as affected when we compare him to something oddly more gargantuan in seeming lethality as an orbital bombardment. It appears to me that this Tyranid Carnifex does indeed have a weakness and this would be found by concentrated quick-moving projectiles instead of let’s say massively concussive blasts. From this premise I think Samus Aran may have a chance because of her locating techniques for designated attacks, concentrated firepower and also her skill in marksmanship. A critical wound could institute the giant to a ‘dormant state’ and she could continue from there to separate main body parts and finally kill the beast. If the Carnifex could regen from a small group of cells then I’m sure being as hardy as it is it would have relived from the secondary attack of the Exterminatus protocol but as read from the description the beast had finally become deceased.
@MaxTheUsurper
“cause well she could just keep running and firing while OOE tries to get her…”
Here’s the problem i see. As i understand about OOE he was created to quickly reach enemy “big armored boys” and put them down. So hard to say about speed. But Samus definetly more agile.
But still my understanding OOE is limited so I maybe wrong.
If he has a weakness or a weakpoint, Samus would know all about it in three seconds. Because of her handy-dandy scan visor. Once she knows, she would do just about everything to maliciously exploit that weakness.
But again, I ask, what’s keeping Samus from disintegrating him like she does against most other enemies? Being turned to dust is hard to regenerate from, I’m sure.
Zolanius, that is what I am placing my bets on at the moment. Samus Aran will wear this guy down through attrition because unlike Wolverine OOE does not have – as it appears to be so – full regen abilities and only a persistent healing factor. As for the debate between Wolverine and SA I would personally bet on the Big W.
Handy-dandy scan visor = locator for designation purposes as aforementioned in my post.
I think it was decided as a loss for Wolverine because she could flash-vaporize him faster than he could regenerate. Which I see happening here.
Does One Eye have resistances to cold? Ice missles and beams and whatever.
Forgive me for using WH40K Wiki. I have no other source about this character. Like in the Cloud Strife vs Link thread, I want to throw everything onto the table. That plasma pistol that brought down Old One Eye, went through his eye and into his brain. He hasn’t recovered from this, hence the reason why he must be called “Old One Eye”.
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Samus has two types of plasma beams here, and unlike the plasma pistol, she can charge her Plasma Beam, which has demonstrated the capability of vaporizing Space Pirates. I might also add that from my observation when playing Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, that Samus’ Power Beam is much stronger than it appears in-game.
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At Wikitroid, someone else wrote this, but I made some corrections. So here is what is said about Samus’ Power Beam.
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“In Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, the Power Beam is presented as being more powerful during cut-scenes than it is during game play. Samus is seen killing Pirate Troopers in a single shot, while in game play it takes 20 shots or two full charged shots.”
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So as we can see, if the Power Beam is portrayed as more powerful during the cut-scenes, we may also say the same of Samus’ other weapons, including the Plasma Beam. So the question is, will Old One Eye be capable of surviving a constant barrage of the Plasma Beam? While the Metroid Prime trilogy grants Samus quick charges, the six Accel Charges make Samus’ charges nigh-instantaneous.
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Another thing Samus weilds is the Power Bomb. According to Adam Malkovich, this is capable of vaporizing humans, i.e., flash frying them. If plasma weapons can harm Old One Eye, then I power bombs should be very effective here.
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Another thing I have read is that Old One Eye was frozen for decades along with other corpses, but when he was thawed out with the rest, his wounds began to instantly heal. Again, Samus’ has the Ice Beam in conjunction with the Diffusion Beam, as well as ice missiles. What is keeping her from freezing Old One Eye and then firing a missile to shatter his frozen body? Has he ever regenerated from something like this?
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I suppose Old One Eye had some kind of armor as well when someone named Telion was tracking Old One Eye down. Apparently, Telion was able to land a shot with a missile, hitting Old One Eye’s ruined eye socket, causing him to be “overcome with pain and stumbled into a cavernous ravine”.
Zolanius, Oh, okay, if Samus could do that then Wolverine would have no hope. The thing with OOE is that he is basically like an organic MBT so his skin is much, much more dense and hardy than Wolverine’s. Plus it seems it has a super-healing factor with its external features and a slow regen rate for its vital organs.
Wait, if she has Corruption upgrades then who needs regeneration? Grapple Voltage!
I’ll just throw out some more fun. Samus is capable of traversing at supersonic speeds. The low end of supersonic is Mach 1.2, although it is feasible that Samus might be, or might be capable of traveling up to Mach 4.9. The safest is to go with Mach 1.2, however.
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Mach 1.2 is 921.6 mph, or 1,351.68 ft./s (411.992,064 m/s). That’s a little over three football fields in 1 second. Since we know Samus’ weight, which is 90 kg., if she ran or flew into Old One Eye, she would produce 7,638,185.735,954,105 joules, or 7 megajoules.
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According to Wikipedia, one megajoule is equal to one million (106) joules, or approximately the kinetic energy of a one-tonne vehicle moving at 160 km/h (100 mph). So I guess that could be multiplied by to get an idea.
Or, as my favorite video goes, this is what it would probably look like if Samus flew right into Old One Eye with the shinespark.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSVfYwdGSsQ=#t=0m33s
Big bugs…Samus her speciality.
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Anyway, skimmed trough my Tyranid 5E codex to make sure OOE is a purely melee based carnifex and he is.Unlike normal Carni’s he doesn’t have the option to have ranged weaponry leaving him…to say it simply, really fucked againsr Samus.
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Not only is this prime3 Samus who can scan and use her Novabeam to hit specific bodyparts and fry internal organs, she can also use her speedboost from Other M which makes sure the lumbering melee based Carnifex is never going to get close.The only point that migh be annoying is making sure OOE will go down for good this time.But I believe a combo of freezing him and then using supermissles will shatter him in many pieces and that really should do the job.
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In conclusion, this is another bug on Samus her gigantic pile of bugcorpses.
Anyone out there supporting the cyclops?
“Anyone out there supporting the cyclops?”
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No, he never stood a chance to begin with. Were it a ‘nid that actually had one (Doom of Malan’tai for exmple) then yes, but old one eye? Forget it.
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Stomp match is stomp.
Good thoughts guys, but I don’t think this battle is as easy as one thinks it is. I’m prepared to jump to either Samus winning by attrition or there is somewhat of a draw. I still don’t know much about either of these characters so constructive criticism is welcomed.
I’m not so sure that a 7-tonne vehicle at 160 KM/H could come close to matching Orbital Bombardment and as StealthRanger said the Carnifex that was attributed the damage was one of the weaker types of its kind and that whole kind itself somewhat weaker than OOE. Also, how would Samus not be hurt by the impact? The amount of pressure exacted on Samus not to mention the shock-power of the hit would undeniably do damage to her and most possibly the Power Suit.
When it comes to the OOE I believe it is its internal organs that are the weak-points of its structure but to get to them one needs to pass the hard outer-casing of the Carnifex which has a super-healing ability especially with this particular entity. A freeze, if powerful enough, will stop him but the missile once hit will thaw the material and allow him to quickly heal again. Remember that Orbital Bombardment was used on a much weaker version of this Carnifex yet it didn’t pull it to pieces it was just stunned. (Did some research) In the Nightbringer novel by Graham McNeill the ‘cyclonic torpedoes’ used in the Exterminatus protocol for Orbital Bombardment, as seen with the Carnifex, have the same effect whatever their method of destruction, “the complete destruction of all life on the planet, its atmosphere burned away in a storm of fire and its oceans boiled to vapour, leaving it a barren rock” (Lexicanum). Remember we are seeing (as shown from info supplied by StealthRanger) a weaker version of this kind of Tyranid Carnifex survive the first hit from such a deployment. Is this PIS? Can Samus disable the giant by focusing on the last eye that the Carny has? If so from there can she kill it? I think I need help from someone who actually knows about the WH40K universe…
heck how did i miss that one beeing posted? …thx a lot admin
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ok … most important:
NO PHAZON weapons (as stated in the description) !!!
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what is old one eye able to tank?
cause as far as i am concerned fightin higher tier metroids like zeta- omega or queen metroid … shooting plasma on their hide does jack shit and does not pierce through (game mechanic or simply metroid tanking ability) … as far i see it i would put old one eye on omega
/queen metroid hide level …
*Also, how would Samus not be hurt by the impact? The amount of pressure exacted on Samus not to mention the shock-power of the hit would undeniably do damage to her and most possibly the Power Suit.*
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Samus simply doesn’t get damaged from speedboosting/shinesparking into solid objects.Shinesparking headfirst into a solid wall that doesn’t budge?Not a single scratch on Samus.
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*When it comes to the OOE I believe it is its internal organs that are the weak-points of its structure but to get to them one needs to pass the hard outer-casing of the Carnifex which has a super-healing ability especially with this particular entity.*
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Which would be a good point if Samus didn’t have a visor that targets vital organs and beam that ignores armor and goes straight for the organs.
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You wanna turn this into something resembling a good match?Then remove all prime3 upgrades and her ability to speedboost.
I seem to remember from other Samus threads that she was able to stand up and move normally in 500 G gravity or the like. If true, that should give her equal footing in terms of physical strength, if not greater.
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“Samus has two types of plasma beams here, and unlike the plasma pistol, she can charge her Plasma Beam, which has demonstrated the capability of vaporizing Space Pirates.”
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I would just like to point out that a plasma weapon in one universe =/= a plasma weapon in another. However, if it is capable of completely vaporizing a human, then OOE better have some pretty heat-resistant armor.
“You wanna turn this into something resembling a good match?Then remove all prime3 upgrades and her ability to speedboost.”
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well i do want it to be FPA worthy … that´s for sure …
looks like i overestimated one eye …
“she was able to stand up and move normally in 500 G ”
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I remember it being 850 G…
*I remember it being 850 G…*
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I generally ignore that number these days.There is nothing else in Metroid that supports this and there are plenty of instances ingame that would contradict that number and then there is a manga scene that destroys that outright.The best calc feat provided here on FP for Samus is the Vorash fight which from the top of my head puts her around more then 20tons (roughly vorash his weight and ignoring the lava and the fact he was struggling against Samus with all his strength for now).
@orber:
think super metroid incarnation would be better?
Okay, shinesparking is a powerful ability even at 1.2 Mach but I would still want to ask how that would compare to say Orbital Bombardment as poised by the description in the Nightbringer. Not only would the shockwave be stronger but the ‘cyclonic torpedoes’ are normally strapped with nucleonic fire or raw plasma. The comparison is at widely different limits.
Considering the beam that can pass through armour to reach tissue I believe this would be negated seeing as the Carnifex is not an armoured organism in the sense of metal alloy unless someone wants to beg to differ and show me an source that points to OOE having armour-plating. I would argue that even if it did its own organic body compounds would be infused with the metal platings which is what we see with some scorpions here on Earth. I’m still open to Samus aiming for OOE’s eye and brain again and incapacitating it but I don’t know where to go from there as a weakness to a catatonic state is different to one of death.
Aelfinn, hey there, vaporising a human with 7 layers of thinly-tiered flesh is different to trying to vaporise the flesh of a monster with hardy outer-coverings of dense and callous skin with possibly a myriad set of layers or even worse possibly consisting of a metal-skin fusion.
@Orber
Do you know the figure for lava’s viscosity? 20 Tons seems a good number for his size (maybe slightly more though), so if there was a way to figure out how viscosity affects how easily something is pulled and lifted, that could give us a good thing for strength. She also lifted him a fair bit into the air when she yanks him I think, that should be taken into account. Then, as you said, the strength needed for a creature his size to swim through lava at his speed, and jump as high as it does.
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I will say that ‘Nid claws are rediculously sharp and cutty; a swipe, if it connected, would certainly do damage.
@Paveway
The purpose of a cyclonic torpedo is to ignite the atmosphere of a planet, making it uninhabitable. If the carnifex had been even a little ways underground, it would have been just fine. And your average fire isn’t all that hot; I bet Samus could survive a CT bombardment if she had her varia suit.
Hey Gluttonous-Behemoth, by the definition of the novel cyclonic torpedos are designed to wipe away all living things not just igniting the atmosphere of a planet to make it uninhabitable. By the way the Exterminatus attack was defined in what was quoted from StealthRanger’s citing (it’s up there in the link if you want to read it) the Orbital Bombardment was made as a reference to how durable the Tyranid Carnifexs indeed are so the idea of having one burrowed a little underground would have been pointless to the narrative. Also, this isn’t an average fire it is a nucleonic fire bombardment. It’s probably a relative of an atomic bomb crossed with napalm. Incredibly destructive. Orbital Bombardment uses some of the most powerful attacks in any militarised situation.
does anyone else want a change for samus to make the match more fair?
any suggestions?
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about the 850G:
as far as i remeber that number was calculated from the size and mass of zebes … though there were statements of the mass being translated wrong …
is that true?
Samus trained since she was three on a planet with 865.5x gravity.
I know that, I’ve read most of the books and codexes, that’s why I’m dubious about how this thing survived. Exterminatus is the “Fuck you, if we can win, neither will you” solution of the Imperium.-Nothing- is supposed to survive. So how did this basic carny survive what can fuck up the day of Greater Daemons of Chaos? Its just contradictory.
You might be right. It does sound odd. Seeing as I actually know little about either of the universes I was hoping someone would come along and clarify. It’s peculiar, StealthRanger even said it was from the codexes where he got his information. He has the image of the material in the link. I did say I was open to it being PIS and it still could be. If someone can show a story where a formidable variant of the Carnifex genus was stunned by a missile or artillery shell that would be helpful. It may also depend on what its strengths and weaknesses are to what kinds of weaponry as maybe raw plasma torpedos are lethal to the TC but nucleonic fire isn’t or maybe vice-versa.
Maybe it was a faulty CT? During one of the wars for Armaggedon, the Planetary Governor tried to use some ancient Virus Bombs that had been left on the planet to destroy an Ork Waaagh! but because they were so old, the Life Eater was only partly effective. Maybe the Cyclonic Torpedo was broken?
@Gluttonous-Behemoth
“So how did this basic carny survive what can fuck up the day of Greater Daemons of Chaos?”
Simple. Without constant sacrafice no such high ranking demon can maintain their presence in material world. And dead world can provide no sacriface.
Tyranids on the other hand can evolve and upgrade themself. So they see a couple Exterminatus(which is bio or burn type, not cracking) and voila! they no longer in danger(some simply burriving under ground other…simply doesn’t care anymore)
That is a no limit fallacy. And the cases I’m talking about involve the Exterminatus happening in the middle of a chaos invasion, where the daemons involved are at great power levels. While ‘nids do develop resistance to attacks at an unholy rate of efficiency, there is nothing to suggest a base carnifex will survive a Gawdamn Exterminatus.
For some reason, I have funny sight seeing Samus stacking the plasma and ice beam together. Doesn’t really matter. (Freeze on the outside, burn in the inside?)
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Though I do wonder, how much will hazard suit add to the 75%damage resistant gravity suit?
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24 energy tanks (2499 units of energy)
+75% damage reduce
335 missiles (normal<ice<super<seeker)
power/charge beam <diffusion <ice <plasma <wave <nova <plasma(enemy piercing version)
speed booster and shinespark
screw attack and space jump
grapple beam/lasso/voltage
morphball, spider ball, boost ball bombs, and power bombs
11 ship missiles/ship grapple
Samus got this.
“Aelfinn, hey there, vaporising a human with 7 layers of thinly-tiered flesh is different to trying to vaporise the flesh of a monster with hardy outer-coverings of dense and callous skin”
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Unless this is incredibly heat-resistant, flesh sucks against heat. No two ways about it. Even if the outside is able to survive, the insides will cook. That is, if the Tyranids aren’t 40k-hax in terms of heat-resistance. Does anyone know?
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“possibly consisting of a metal-skin fusion.”
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Any proof?
@Gluttonous-Behemoth
“there is nothing to sugges base carnifex will survive a Gawdamn Exterminatus.”
Base? Maybe not, but you can never know for sure. I mean they have giants that can hide in human body(forgot the name). But oh well, I just don’t know nids well enought to argue, to be honest, so I accept your point.
By the way i found this pic and it looks like about our OOE, don’t you know from which comic it(cause i long abonden Warhammer and don’t remember all info about it, and certanly know no comics about it):
fastpic.ru/view/39/2012/0614/a0464275cb0a9282c7f0a17d27eaf95a.png.html
^
did his link take anybody to a russian site with pictures of ads for computer parts and boobs?
@Gluttonous-Behemoth
“did his link take anybody to a russian site with pictures of ads for computer parts and boobs?”
I guess i should’ve use direct link:
dawnofwar.ucoz.ru/_fr/23/s4592400.jpg
“did his link take anybody to a russian site with pictures of ads for computer parts and boobs?”
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Now I kinda want to go to the link, but I also don’t…
“did his link take anybody to a russian site with pictures of ads for computer parts and boobs?”
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Yep.
“vaporising a human with 7 layers of thinly-tiered flesh is different to trying to vaporise the flesh of a monster with hardy outer-coverings of dense and callous skin”
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Except that the plasma beam(prime variant) also vaporized armored creatures and enemies in prime 1 and 3 such as the armored space pirate. Not to mention, the plasma beam hurts enemies that make lava(or is it magma?) their home.(700c to 1200)
Let us remember that she disintegrates space pirates, who are known to have powerful exoskeletons. And then, and I know people might avoid mentioning this, but Metroid has that whole terrawatt weapon thing…
Ooh, so this is in the Sakaar Arena? This will make the fight very similar to a lot of the Prime Batttles.
What’s the Sakaar Arena?
A huge arena from planet sakaar
The hulk was fighting on there.
Unbiased for the most part?
*shrugs*
The arena was pretty huge.
The fact that many giant monsters could be released there proves it in a way.
Its kinda like the geonosis arena for reference. Sand floor, field preventing escape, lots of louts hooting as you smash another being’s head in.
something ive been wondering for a bit
how or vajra compsre to tyranids
Prepare for a long post.
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@Paveway:
Good thoughts guys, but I don’t think this battle is as easy as one thinks it is. I’m prepared to jump to either Samus winning by attrition or there is somewhat of a draw.”
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I find this doubtful. A plasma pistol shot out OOE’s eye and took him down. The Plasma Beam covers a wider range, being at least 6 feet. As I noted before, the cut-scenes demonstrate Samus’ Power Beam being more powerful than it is in-game. During game play it takes 20 shots or 2 charged shots to take down a Pirate Trooper, whereas in the cut-scene it only takes 1 shot. I would be inclined to think the Plasma Beam is stronger, not just from what the cut-scene portrays, but also what plasma actually is.
“I’m not so sure that a 7-tonne vehicle at 160 KM/H could come close to matching Orbital Bombardment and as StealthRanger said the Carnifex that was attributed the damage was one of the weaker types of its kind and that whole kind itself somewhat weaker than OOE.”
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Well, I have a quantifiable number of 7 megatons from Samus either running into or flying into her target. I don’t know what this Orbital Bombardment’s ton range is. It also doesn’t say what type of Carnifex this was, nor does it say where this Carnifex was located. Humans can survive a nuclear explosion, and later die from the radiation. Either way, that Carnifex is said to have went into a dormant state to heal its grievous wounds, and was still killed off.
“Also, how would Samus not be hurt by the impact? The amount of pressure exacted on Samus not to mention the shock-power of the hit would undeniably do damage to her and most possibly the Power Suit.”
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Samus is pretty durable against blunt forces.
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“When it comes to the OOE I believe it is its internal organs that are the weak-points of its structure but to get to them one needs to pass the hard outer-casing of the Carnifex which has a super-healing ability especially with this particular entity.”
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Again, what’s keeping Samus’ Plasma Beam, or even her Power Bomb from destroying OOE’s internal organs? In fact, what is keeping the Wave Beam from passing through the dense skin? How durable is OOE’s outer shell? Say perhaps it can take a hit or two from a missile, this doesn’t mean it would be able to resist a super missile, which is five times stronger than a missile. And since this is MOM Samus, what’s keeping one super missile and four other missiles from destroying this?
“A freeze, if powerful enough, will stop him but the missile once hit will thaw the material and allow him to quickly heal again.”
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Who is to say that OOE can regenerate on a level like that of Deadpool? Who is to say that upon being frozen and destroyed with a super missile, that OOE would suddenly reform from a single portion of flesh or whatever it is OOE is made of?
“Remember that Orbital Bombardment was used on a much weaker version of this Carnifex yet it didn’t pull it to pieces it was just stunned.”
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“Grievous wounds” doesn’t sound like just being stunned. Again, where was this Carnifex at the time of the explosion? Was it directly hit? Was it further away and got caught in the explosion?
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“(Did some research) In the Nightbringer novel by Graham McNeill the ‘cyclonic torpedoes’ used in the Exterminatus protocol for Orbital Bombardment, as seen with the Carnifex, have the same effect whatever their method of destruction, “the complete destruction of all life on the planet, its atmosphere burned away in a storm of fire and its oceans boiled to vapour, leaving it a barren rock” (Lexicanum).”
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And did this cyclonic torpedo cause complete destruction to all life on the planet? How large was this explosion? Was it a mile, two miles? Is this comparable to an atom bomb? Where was this Carnifex at during this time? Again, people have survived an atom bomb, but later died because of the radiation.
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“Remember we are seeing (as shown from info supplied by StealthRanger) a weaker version of this kind of Tyranid Carnifex survive the first hit from such a deployment. Is this PIS? Can Samus disable the giant by focusing on the last eye that the Carny has? If so from there can she kill it? I think I need help from someone who actually knows about the WH40K universe…”
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No one has forgotten. That OOE is capable of being harmed by plasma, stopped by ice, and has a vulnerable eyes, one with which it never healed from, I don’t see why Samus couldn’t do the same. OOE was stopped by a plasma to the eye, which went through the brain, and is something OOE never healed from.
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A missile to that weak point also made OOE go crazy. I really don’t see why Samus can’t just use her Plasma Beam and target the eye and just freeze OOE from there and shatter his body.
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“Considering the beam that can pass through armour to reach tissue I believe this would be negated seeing as the Carnifex is not an armoured organism in the sense of metal alloy unless someone wants to beg to differ and show me an source that points to OOE having armour-plating.”
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Oh, the Wave Beam doesn’t discriminate about what it fires through. If the target had tissue and muscle covering its vital organs, the Wave Beam would pass through that as well. Armor or not, it matters not. In MOM, the Wave Beam can also pass through transparent objects like glass, as well as transluscent objects, which clearly isn’t armor. If OOE has a very dense outer shell or whatever, maybe the Wave Beam would pass through.
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“I’m still open to Samus aiming for OOE’s eye and brain again and incapacitating it but I don’t know where to go from there as a weakness to a catatonic state is different to one of death.”
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The thing about this match is that the fight goes on until one is knocked out or killed.
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@orber:
“Which would be a good point if Samus didn’t have a visor that targets vital organs and beam that ignores armor and goes straight for the organs.
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You wanna turn this into something resembling a good match?Then remove all prime3 upgrades and her ability to speedboost.”
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I really don’t think that would change anything. Sure, remove MP3:C upgrades. It’s not like I’m using that for this argument anyway, but she still has the Wave Beam, and if her Speed Booster needs to be removed in order to make this match fair, then it just clearly says Samus is too powerful for OOE.
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“I generally ignore that number these days.There is nothing else in Metroid that supports this and there are plenty of instances ingame that would contradict that number and then there is a manga scene that destroys that outright.The best calc feat provided here on FP for Samus is the Vorash fight which from the top of my head puts her around more then 20tons (roughly vorash his weight and ignoring the lava and the fact he was struggling against Samus with all his strength for now).”
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Ha! That’s what I’ve been saying about Vorash, but I was comparing it to a whale shark in previous battles on FP. I would love to eventually get a number, but I’ve also estimated Samus’ strength so far is in the 20 ton range, possibly a little higher.
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@Aelfinn:
“I seem to remember from other Samus threads that she was able to stand up and move normally in 500 G gravity or the like. If true, that should give her equal footing in terms of physical strength, if not greater.”
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865.5 g, actually, but that’s not something I ever take into consideration because I don’t agree with it anyway.
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“I would just like to point out that a plasma weapon in one universe =/= a plasma weapon in another. However, if it is capable of completely vaporizing a human, then OOE better have some pretty heat-resistant armor.”
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Oh, I know. I know Samus’ Plasma Beam was demonstrated to be more powerful than the plasma weapons in the Halo Universe. I’m simply doing a comparison, though. In MP3:C, there were Space Pirates that had armor to protect them from high temperature weapons, and missiles would probably be more effective in this case, but Samus could still destroy the armor if it took enough hits from the Plasma beam. As as demonstrated before, cut-scenes demonstrate Samus’ weapons are stronger than what is portrayed in-game.
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@MrTBSC:
“does anyone else want a change for samus to make the match more fair?”
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By doing that, it only demonstrates Samus is superior by default.
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“about the 850G:
as far as i remeber that number was calculated from the size and mass of zebes … though there were statements of the mass being translated wrong …
is that true?”
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I contest that, actually. I’ll post what I wrote below.
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@Zolanius:
“Samus trained since she was three on a planet with 865.5x gravity.”
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Samus is by far my most favorite character of all video games, and there is none I can say who could replace her. As much as I love Samus, I still doubt that.
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@Alpha or Omega:
“Though I do wonder, how much will hazard suit add to the 75%damage resistant gravity suit?”
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It doesn’t add anything. Wikitroid had some wrong numbers in the past, but I corrected the information on the Varia, Gravity, Phazon, Dark, Light, and PED Suit, as well as the Hazard Shield. The only defense Samus is granted is the 75% damage reduction from MOM. Of course, there are other defenses, such as resistance to lava/magma and gravitational field effects.
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Now, about Zebes’ gravity. *puts up flame shield*
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Samus’ exact strength is currently unknown, although there have been some who have been of the opinion that she is capable of lifting 86 tons, or at least within that range. This is because she can lift herself up without the Power Suit in Metroid: Zero Mission (MZM). This is based on the mass and diameter of planet Zebes, as well as Samus’ weight. [1][2][3] Because it is assumed Samus’ weight is 90 kg on Earth, she would weigh 86 tons on Zebes because of its 865.5 g.
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A teraton is simply one trillion tons, so Zebes would be 4.8 trillion trillion tons (4.8 x 10^24 Tt). Earth’s mass is 5.9 trillion trillion kilograms (5.9 x 10^24 kg). [4] This is equivalent to 5.9 billion trillion tons (5.9 x 10^21 mt). With respect to diameter, Zebes is 11,700 km, [2] whereas Earth is 12,756 km. [4] Already, one can see the similarities here. Did Retro Studios mean Zebes was 4.8 trillion trillion kilograms, or 4.8 billion trillion tons?
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This has led me and a few others to believe that Retro Studios erred. Supporters of Zebes’ mass argue that because the mass is written in-game, it is canon, regardless of the reasonable explanation presented. However, it is also canon that Samus has never demonstrated this physical strength. To avoid inconsistencies, it is assumed by these supporters that the other planets and the space stations Samus visits are of similar gravity.
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While Metroid Prime (MP) presents several planets in the trillion teraton range in the Observatory located in Phendrana Drifts, it is an assumption to think that this is true for every planet and space station throughout the Metroid series. Supporters have nothing to go by outside of what was presented in MP. Strangely, the mass and diameter aren’t mentioned for planet Aether.
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It is also argued by the same supporters that if Retro Studios thought there was an error, they would have made changes when they worked on Metroid Prime Trilogy (MPT). This assumes two things. First, it assumes that Retro Studios was aware of this. Second, it assumes that Retro Studios thought there was a mistake. The problem is that no one knows, and while an argument from evidence isn’t evidence against this, it doesn’t support this, either.
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I believe that both Metroid: Other M (MOM) and Metroid Fusion (MF) disprove the 865.5 g notion. No one knows the gravity for both the Bottle Ship and Biologic Space Labs. There is also no reason to believe it was in Yoshio Sakamoto’s mind that both ships were 865.5 g. Therefore, the safest assumption for both ships would be 1 g.
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References:
1. “Planet Zebes Mass: 4.8 trillion teratons.” Metroid Prime, Logbook, Zebes
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2. “mass: 4.8 trillion teratons
dimensions: 11,700 km diameter” Metroid.com, Planet Zebes
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3. “Weight: 90 kg” Metroid II: Return of Samus manual, p. 14
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4. The New York Times Guide to Essential Knowledge: A Desk Reference for the Curious Mind, p. 244
@Proto-Mind
Since you seem to be alright with calcs wanna help me calculate out strength from the Vorash battle, figuring in his struggling and the viscosity of the lava?
@Gluttonous-Behemoth:
“Since you seem to be alright with calcs wanna help me calculate out strength from the Vorash battle, figuring in his struggling and the viscosity of the lava?”
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I’d like to, but I’m really not sure how I would go about doing that. Art 67 says Vorash’s body is covered in lava, and I’m not sure how much weight that would add to it. The fins would also need to be taken into account.
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Originally I was going to compare Vorash to a great white shark, but the size was too small. When I saw an image like the one below, I thought it was comparable to Art 67.
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Vorash: images.wikia.com/metroid/images/a/ad/Vorash.jpg
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Whale shark: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Rhtyp_u0_white_bg.gif
“Well, I have a quantifiable number of 7 megatons from Samus either running into or flying into her target.”
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I think you meant to say 7 megajoules.
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Anyways, my biggest problem with the 850 g’s is that we never observe gravitational accelerations of 8,3000+ m/s every time someone jumps on Zebes in games.
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If the gravity was that high, every time somebody jumps up 2 meters, there should literally only be 0.04 seconds between the time they jump up and the time they touch the ground again.
I would help, but I suck at math.
Man, I’m starting to miss most of the party. I see that the stacked beams and speed booster have been brought up, but I do have to question the thing about the Nova Beam. In MP3:C, that thing was only able to target specific body parts in conjunction with the X-ray visor, as long as the targets were using Phazite in some way or another. I’d like to ask if that’s a gameplay limitation of some sort. In any case, the Wave Beam should be able to make for a more effective alternative.
@EnigmaJ:
“I think you meant to say 7 megajoules.”
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Oops. Thanks for catching that.
@proto
“then it just clearly says Samus is too powerful for OOE.”
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stomp matches in which an opponent has ABSOLUTELY no chance
to put up resistence wont get an fpa
a match getting an fpa means that it was propperly discussed from both sides and even ..
what i want is a propper match that can be discussed for and from both sides … and no such thing like a) justs needs to sneeze to overkill b) to the ends of the universe
so if one side needs to be weakened
in order to even thinks out (in other words prevent overkill in every respekt) then so be it … but i only will do that if that is wanted by other factpilers too
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“Samus is pretty durable against blunt forces.”
yepp kraid for instance stomped on her in the manga and she didn´t get a scratch
in fusion however one swipe of the omega metroid depleted all her shields
“in order to even thinks out (in other words prevent overkill in every respekt) then so be it … but i only will do that if that is wanted by other factpilers too”
its too late admin put in a new rule where you can only make changes before 50 posts
@MrTSC:
I know stomp matches means no FPA. If anyone else thinks there should be some changes, that’s fine.
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As for the Kraid scene in the manga and the Omega Metroid, blunt trauma isn’t the same as pressure or slash attacks. I thought I’d make that known, since I feel when people think durability, they’re thinking of toughness.
“yepp kraid for instance stomped on her in the manga and she didn´t get a scratch
in fusion however one swipe of the omega metroid depleted all her shields”
/
Did the omega metroid have some kind of power up because I remember the metroid manga also showed Samus getting stabbed and sliced by a worm and fly working together.(forgot their names. They were also in zero mission.)
Sorry, should be giant worm and giant fly
“about the 850G:
as far as i remeber that number was calculated from the size and mass of zebes … though there were statements of the mass being translated wrong …
is that true?”No. Just people saying it is.
“Now, about Zebes’ gravity. *puts up flame shield*”Copy and pasting what a person believes and is are two different things. and it isn’t what you believe.
Metroid prime is considered to be separate by the sexist author anyway.
“its too late admin put in a new rule where you can only make changes before 50 posts”
… yeah i knew that … that´s why i asked if you guys wanted a change earlier …
“its too late admin put in a new rule where you can only make changes before 50 posts”
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When was this?
“When was this?”
like a few month …. i think
@Laharl:
“Copy and pasting what a person believes and is are two different things. and it isn’t what you believe.
Metroid prime is considered to be separate by the sexist author anyway.”
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I hope you’re not implying I stole someone’s work and treated it as my own. Either way, the information about Samus’ says the velocity is 7.2 x 10 c, and yet, the games have demonstrated higher, based on what has been written here in FP.
“Metroid prime is considered to be separate by the sexist author anyway.”
/
I don’t think he ever said it. Also, I thought Metroid Prime was canon due to a timeline that was made.
Metroid (Zero Mission)
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime Hunters
Metroid Prime 2 Echoes
Metroid Prime 3 Corruption
Metroid 2 Return of Samus
Super Metroid
Metroid Other M
Metroid Fusion
/
Besides, Nintendo can say it if it’s non-canon. Retro Studios can’t. Retro was only the developers. Not Publisher.
It was Solid Snake vs some guy… Anyways, blame Chuck Inglish if you need somebody to blame.
“its too late admin put in a new rule where you can only make changes before 50 posts”
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When was this?”
/
I remember it was in Daken vs Solid Snake. The date should be there.
Do you know where he said this or where I can find the rule?
I think that rule should be able to be overruled if enough people vote otherwise. I’m not sure what the admin would think of that suggestion, though.
“I remember it was in Daken vs Solid Snake. The date should be there.”
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Oh, ok, thanks.
“Do you know where he said this or where I can find the rule?”
page 3 or 4 of daken vs solid snake
its in one of akumas posts
as far as remember
sakamoto himself considers
prime as alternate reality …
“I think that rule should be able to be overruled if enough people vote otherwise. I’m not sure what the admin would think of that suggestion, though.”
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i second that …
“as far as remember
sakamoto himself considers
prime as alternate reality ”
/
I don’t ever remember him saying that.
If that was true, the official timeline retconed it then.
Looking at the video of their fight, when Vorash is beached on the island, he looks to be about roughly ten times longer than she is tall, and close to three times wider at his widest. Does sixty feet seem realistic to you all?
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I guess if we took the weight of a sixty foot animal, then added the weight of a common igneous rock several inches deep across Vorash’s surface area, we could start to figure what it would take to lift it, plus how strong vorash would be to be able to swim in the lava.
“If that was true, the official timeline retconed it then.”
would´t matter for this fight anyway since i initialy put in curoptions stuff too … and if you want it i would allow to use primefeats too … since i don´t give a fuck about sakamoto … and i bet many fans of prime would too
“No, he never stood a chance to begin with. Were it a ‘nid that actually had one (Doom of Malan’tai for exmple) then yes, but old one eye? Forget it.”
then shall we try something else like a tervigon or trigon ?…
this is what i find wierd … she buttkicks fexes but shall then have trouble with the likes of terminators? or greyknights (yeah i know psykicks for against demons .. but still ..)?
sry for multipost:
if you guys still want a change for samus
then just say +1 for change and give a suggestion…
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my initial idea would be:
varia and gravity
morphball,bomb,powerbomb
powerbeam,charge,diffusion,grapple
full energytanks/accelerators
missiles,supermissiles
spacejump/highjump
… would that be ok?
i´m off for now see you guys tomorow …
For this match?
How many missiles tanks does she does she get?
guess 15 would be enough since she can restore them via concentration
“I hope you’re not implying I stole someone’s work and treated it as my own.”
I dunno could be the other way around or it could be you did it.
I’ve seen a link to it before.
“Besides, Nintendo can say it if it’s non-canon. Retro Studios can’t. Retro was only the developers. Not Publisher.”
Note I said sexist author.
The guy that’s worked on every single one besides retro studios.
What’s his name?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshio_Sakamoto
“as far as remember
sakamoto himself considers
prime as alternate reality ”
yeppers
“Metroid (Zero Mission)
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime Hunters
Metroid Prime 2 Echoes
Metroid Prime 3 Corruption
Metroid 2 Return of Samus
Super Metroid
Metroid Other M
Metroid Fusion”
btw this timeline makes no sense in any context at all with what Samus being a scared as fuck little girl in other M and already going through all that crap in the manga early on
Other M just doesn’t belong anywhere at all.
“Note I said sexist author.
The guy that’s worked on every single one besides retro studios.
What’s his name?”
He never did say it was non-canon.
Also, wouldn’t the timeline just retcon what he said?
Not to mention, in Brawl, the song for Metroid Prime States that Metroid Prime took place after the events of Metroid.
/
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkFO1e9hcOE
“In the reaches of space,
below the surface of planet Zebes
Samus Aran faced the space pirates
she destroyed their opperation,
wiped out the parasites called Metroids
and defeated mother brain.”
“Also, wouldn’t the timeline just retcon what he said?”When the time line is worse than zelda’s… I wouldn’t think so.
It’s still a timeline.
Also, Metroid doesn’t have a three way timeline like Zelda does.
/
Not to mention Brawl states that Metroid Prime takes place after Metroid.
@Laharl:
“I dunno could be the other way around or it could be you did it.
I’ve seen a link to it before.”
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I know what I wrote. If you don’t wish to believe me, I don’t care. It doesn’t change anything.
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“Note I said sexist author.
The guy that’s worked on every single one besides retro studios.
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What’s his name?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshio_Sakamoto
“as far as remember
sakamoto himself considers
prime as alternate reality ”
yeppers”
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Nope.
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www.joystiq.com/2010/03/12/interview-metroid-other-m-producer-yoshio-sakamoto/
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“I actually didn’t have a lot of input on the Prime series. But when [sic] they’re doing with Other M here, it’s not so much a different universe, it’s just a different part of the story.”
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www.nintendoworldreport.com/translation/23982
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“Regarding ‘the Samuses’, it is a complicated question. Nearly everybody has asked about the Prime series, which are part of the Metroid timeline, but are completely different. It has nothing to do with it, but it could be a way to represent other facets of Samus’s personality. I don’t want to create divisions between the Samus from the east and the Samus from the west; to me, the real Samus is the one you will meet in Metroid: Other M.”
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I honestly have no care for your hate for MOM. It’s irrelevant to the discussion.
“I honestly have no care for your hate for MOM. It’s irrelevant to the discussion.”
“to me, the real Samus is the one you will meet in Metroid: Other M.”
Like hell it is. Author keeps backing it.
You know how damn tall Samus is?
Do you notice the black man towering over like she’s some delicate thing.
Just as bad as the new Laura croft torture porn game that is being made.
It fits in nowhere in the story besides the beginning and guess where it isn’t.
Heyheyhey
knowyourmeme.com/memes/remember-me-mbd
“know what I wrote. If you don’t wish to believe me, I don’t care. It doesn’t change anything.”
Because I have seen that word for word elsewhere and it still has no basis of being a typo besides you wanting it to be.
So yes you are right doesn’t change anything it’s still has huge amounts of gravity, get mad.
Come back when you have something to contribute.