Suggested by ZomBninjasamurai
The Peacekeepers (debut), Imperium of Man, Galactic Empire, Terran Dominion, UNSC, and the Goa’uld must defend their empires against three species-consuming races: The Zerg, Flood, and Tyranids.
Team 2 is commanded by Scorpius, Lord Solar Macharius, Grand Admiral Thrawn, Jim Raynor, Admiral Preston Cole, and Ba’al respectively.
The Tyranids only have their forces that are in the Milky Way.
New page
@Hermit
I thought Stukov was now acting independently, and even if he is with Raynor, that doesn’t make him part of the Dominion, and the thing is you said Raynor is part of the Dominion because he is helping the Foundation right? Problem is I’m pretty sure he is not now..Kerrigan in this match is deinfestated right? In that case Raynor’s partnership with the Dominion is ended right after Tychus’ betrayal..anyway it was more like partnership, not owned..
@ ahrrd
“nd the thing is you said Raynor is part of the Dominion because he is helping the Foundation right? Problem is I’m pretty sure he is not now.”
We cannot be sure.
We have to wait for Heart of the Swarm for an answer to your question.
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And whether you like it or not, Raynor is the leader of the Dominion for this match. ZomB says so.
I kinda wish Kerrigan got her red hair back.
@Lightning
I kind of like her better this way. It helps to define her, unlike the generic red head, big boobed, longed legged and sex symbol she was before.
“I kind of like her better this way. It helps to define her, unlike the generic red head, big boobed, longed legged and sex symbol she was before.”
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Looks like Nova replaced her. :/
‘Looks like Nova replaced her. :/’
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True. If they can somehow get starcraft:ghost out anywhere in this century though.
I like Ariel Hanson.
NovaxSarah. I support this pairing. Psychics FTW. ;D
“True. If they can somehow get starcraft:ghost out anywhere in this century though.”
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No real news on it has happened since like 2006. I think it’s safe to say that game is not happening.
So did this thread die?
“So did this thread die?”
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I guess so. Shame, I was enjoying this one. It just seems Team 1′s proponents have gone.
“NovaxSarah. I support this pairing. Psychics FTW. ;D”
psychics or not
they´r still levels bellow the most badassed sci fy heroine … samus
I’m watching Farscape and it looks like Peacekeepers have rather short engagement ranges, but in the last episode one of the Characters used a Peacekeeper hand weapon (it was about the size of a blaster rifle from Star Wars) and it took a dinner plate sized chunk out of the target’s torso.
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I still haven’t seen anything where a Peacekeeper ship weapon has scored a hit onscreen yet though.
Awwwww…
We’re talking about thrawn here he’s the one who regained the glory of the Empire from ruin to former glory also saying the fact that empire has crudloads of planet killing,solar system killing,ship owning doomsday weapons.
An ISD is capable of rapidly exterminating all life on the surface of an entire planet, in a massive orbital bombardment known as a Base Delta Zero operation.
A BDZ leaves no survivors at all, hence no witnesses. Only a “deep planet shelter” can protect someone from a BDZ operation, which is so savage that three ISD’s working in concert can blast the entire atmosphere away, leaving its surface a barren, “evenly cratered” airless wasteland (and even a deep planet shelter is still potentially vulnerable if a shot happens to hit directly overhead, hence some uncertainty about survivability even in such a shelter). The 1E8-1E9 megaton range of the Shadow planet-killer (if you know babylon 5) is a fairly conservative range for BDZ firepower. According to the SW2ICS, fleets of warships (typically 100 ships according to other official sources) conducting this kind of operation will actually melt the entire upper crust of a targeted world, although that is far beyond the requirements of a single planet-killer operation, of the kind that a lone ISD would typically perform.|
ALL OF THOSE COPYPASTED FROM HERE:
www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Planet-Killers.html
copy paste because theres too much stuff.
Another piece:
Eclipse-class and Sovereign-class Star Destroyer (Star Wars: Dark Empire stuff)
Concept
Eclipse and Sovereign-class Star Destroyers mount smaller versions of the Death Star’s fearsome superlaser. There are various conflicting reports on its power. Some sources say that it has two thirds the power of the Death Star’s superlaser, while other sources say it has one seventh its power. However, both figures appear to be exaggerated; even one tenth the Death Star’s power would easily destroy an entire planet, which is beyond the capabilities of an Eclipse of Sovereign-class ship.
Known Effects
According to the official literature, the Eclipse-class Star Destroyer’s superlaser is capable of “cracking the crust” of a targeted world and “searing continents” off its surface. It goes without saying that such a large superlaser should be much more powerful than an Acclamator or an ordinary ISD, and the energy requirement for vapourizing an entire continent is well in excess of the threshold for a global extinction event (1E9 megatons). Figures in the range of 1E10-1E11 megatons are probably more realistic. The radiative heating effect and the enormous volume of ballistic ejecta produced by such an event would undoubtedly heat the entire atmosphere up well beyond the point of total sterilization, so it is unlikely that any forms of life would survive.
And for the champion of ass busting super weapon:
Death Star (Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope movies and some stuff i read
Known Effects
The absolute minimum energy requirement for destroying an Earth-like planet is roughly 5E16 megatons. This is 500 million times the K-T extinction asteroid impact (and hundreds of millions of times the firepower of an individual ISD or Shadow planet-killer). However, this does not even come close to the firepower of a Death Star. 5E16 megatons would just barely overcome gravity, and the planet would expand so slowly that it takes ten minutes to double in size. Obviously, the destruction of Alderaan exceeded this quantity by many orders of magnitude. In fact, an energy estimate derived from Alderaan’s rate of expansion leads to an estimate in the 1E22 megaton range (yes, that’s at least 100 trillion times the K-T extinction asteroid impact, or as much energy as our Sun has generated since the time of Moses).
Woah woah have you forgotten there is a death star 2?!!!
Death Star 2 (Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi movies and two books)
Identical to the first Death Star, but it added the ability to fire off-axis, so that it could use its superlaser to target capital ships. Obviously, no capital ship could possibly survive a direct hit from a Death Star superlaser. This one had no “thermal exhaust port” Achilles Heel, and its heat dissipation had been greatly improved, so that it could fire every few minutes instead of every few hours.
An aside, it should be noted that there were numerous other Death Stars in addition to the two famous Death Stars. A Hutt crime syndicate built Darksaber, which was a bare-bones Death Star with no armoured shell, shielding system, or defensive weaponry.
Known Effeects
the second Death Star is even more powerful than the first, but we never saw it fire on a planet so we have no way of knowing how much more powerful it was. It was many times the first Death Star’s size, so this implies at least an order of magnitude firepower increase. However, firepower of this magnitude becomes virtually meaningless, because there is no longer any question of whether it will penetrate a warship’s (or planet’s) defenses, so the larger advantage of DS2 is its off-axis firing capability, not its sheer firepower for a max-yield shot.
Theres just so many stuff saying the fact that i copy pasted but mostly i added some feats
just read all the doomsday weapons of starwars
www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Planet-Killers.html
@ Listen to me
Nobody is denying the power of those weapons.
But the Empire would have to manufacture them 24/7 and up the ante of their construction if they have even a small chance of not simply being overwhelmed by sheer numbers.
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This is where the small fighters and Roger Rogers (Droids) come in.
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Because they are easy to build and even easier to give orders to, they can keep up with the numbers game while keeping the powerhouses safe from attack.
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Arise, arise.
Rise from your slumber necrothread.
Holy pentuple necropost, Batman!
So many posts in a row!
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Srsly, did this thread ever some to a consensus?
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Seems to have died
It died when some of the regular posters just stopped posting.
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I think the general agreement was that team 2 wins by:
a) Reviving the God Emperor of Mankind and basically owning team 1 from that point on.
b) A holding operation wherein they will try and starve team 1 of resources, while building up their own defenses.
c) Building droids until they defeat team 1 by sheer number of cannon fodder.
Time travel probably fit in there somewhere too.
Hermit worte
“Nobody is denying the power of those weapons.
But the Empire would have to manufacture them 24/7 and up the ante of their construction if they have even a small chance of not simply being overwhelmed by sheer numbers.”
A lot of people seem to not be quite up to speed On the Galactic Empires size, abilities and strength. As noted some time before, it was stated that generally it is concluded that They are on par firepower wise with the Imperium, and end up beating them.
Even if we want say that they aren’t quite up to par, ship for ship, man for man( which I myself for the most part do believe they are up to par) The Empire has vastly more of everything.
At any one time, the Imperium has 1 million Space Marines throughout it’s chapters, The Empire fields billions of storm troopers.
The Imperial Guard number in the “countless billions”. The Imperial Army number in the tens of trillions.
Both Empires tend to use a sector fleet or force, as their largest normal composition of ships. Where as the Imperium assigns 60-75 ships to a sector fleet, The Imperial assigns over over 2000.
The Imperial navy fields tens of thousands of star destroyers, and millions of smaller cruisers, frigates, etc. and countless fighters craft.
I don’t know how many people reside in the Imperium total, but the GE has a total of around 100 quadrillion sentients, made up of millions of sentient species.
You could say that pound per pound, that they aren’t even. But They have far, far more of what they have to bring to the table, an insane industrial capacity, and better yet, unfair force projection. With the ability to very quickly put those forces anywhere in the Galaxy.
Not to pick a fight directly, just wanted to say what I don’t think anyone really has up to this point. The GE and the Imperium are in a league of their own here when compared to the other factions of team 2, and some people, at least seemingly, approach them as if they are near the bottom.
I’d argue they are the single most important member, for how much they posses, how quickly they can place it, and how quickly they replace it if need be.
Now the fight as been stated to be within the Milky Way, and combatants, except for the GE, who I assume are spread amongst Team 2 worlds, are all where they would be in normal times. That leaves, Team 1 separated between vast distances, with the forces of Team 2 that know how to deal with them, right in their face.
Imperium gets to put it’s now undivided attention towards the Tyranids, Dominion the Zerg, and UNSC the flood. WIth the Empire free to dispense it’s vast Armadas, endless armies amongst the 3 fronts as necessary.
^ was pretty much said earlier on, before the Halo fanboys jumped in and made attempts to the Flood soloing everything. This fight, with this set-up, isn’t even remotely fair.
I don’t know if this is still going because I only found about it on 2st of July but here goes
@deathmetal3k
I don’t mean to sound like rude or anything,but any hardened Guardsman would not panic about the flood.We(I’m a guard fan)Have faced the horrors of the warp and held the line,we have stood against the un-killable(To a level that makes all 3 races on team 1 look laughably easy to keep down in comparison) un-ending march of the Necrons and HTL,we have faced the disease and corruption of Nurgle and HTL,we have fought tooth and nail against corruption,madness,heresy and mutation with nothing but a grim look on our faces and the knowledge that our brothers and sisters in arms will fight by our side and shed blood in the name of the Emperor and the Imperium.I will admit that Rookie guardsman,PDF and “Whiteshields”(Cadian guard trainees,too young to join the guard) would be quite likely to freak and panic about some flood, but hey,that’s what the Commissariat is for.If anyone said anything similar on pages 5+ I apologize,I just wanted to say this before I forgot about it,I also apologize for the long post.
You know what,all of these ridiculously awesome guys for all of the other races/factions and the Imperium has diddly squat apart from The God Emperor of Mankind on Holy Terra and Ward’s avatar,I’m just going to go ahead and bring this up.Lord Castellan Ursurkar E. Creed.All of the large Team 1 forms were actually Baneblades,Hellhounds,Land Raiders and Titans with “Liberated” Imperial shields (Please note.These only apply if tech sharing means that it is given willing only.) there are Blood Ravens on team 2 after all.
“I don’t mean to sound like rude or anything,but any hardened Guardsman would not panic about the flood.We(I’m a guard fan)Have faced the horrors of the warp and held the line,we have stood against the un-killable(To a level that makes all 3 races on team 1 look laughably easy to keep down in comparison) un-ending march of the Necrons and HTL,we have faced the disease and corruption of Nurgle and HTL,we have fought tooth and nail against corruption,madness,heresy and mutation with nothing but a grim look on our faces and the knowledge that our brothers and sisters in arms will fight by our side and shed blood in the name of the Emperor and the Imperium.I will admit that Rookie guardsman,PDF and “Whiteshields”(Cadian guard trainees,too young to join the guard) would be quite likely to freak and panic about some flood, but hey,that’s what the Commissariat is for.”
The flood doesn’t beat people by using fear. They win by having your legions of bold faced guardsmen finding themselves being body jacked by infection forms in seconds and turning on their allies with super human mutations. The guard would find themselves in a mass of confusion as there enemies pop out of random places day in and day out, their numbers building higher and higher as they replenish themselves off your own numbers (including your trillions of unarmed civilians).
The flood would be helpless against any enemy with full body suits and liberal use of heat weapons (terrans, space marines, maybe storm troopers etc…), but they’re just there to eliminate any in your population not toting power armor. The tyranids and zerg are the ones called up to fight the various super soldiers that those various empires like to employ.
Team 2 with all their super weapons will stop any major invasions, but they can’t do much against the terrorist-esque attacks the zerg and flood like to employ (i.e. ramming infested ships into populated cities, stations, and other ships). It’d be along process, but the assorted hive minds could just routinly send an infested frigate into team 2′s lawn every other day and watch as they steadily burn their own resurces to amputate the infections. All the while team 2′s actual force is just laying dormant somewhere out of sight.
I skimmed the first part of the thread and saw most of this was already said though. What happened that made all this null and void?
The hell? Nothing was spaced out!
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What is the meaning of this factpile!
yea the
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have become necessary
“The Imperial Guard number in the ‘countless billions’. The Imperial Army number in the tens of trillions.”
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The Imperial Guard consists of trillions of soldiers. The “Countless billions” line is not an accurate count. It is poetic, nothing more.
Just like how the “Untold billions” line for the total human population is used all the time in the 40k background, but we know that the actual population numbers in the quadrillions at least. See 32,380 hive world count with average 100 billion humans per hive world in 5th Edition.
@ Scuba Steve
The fight is not taking place in the Milky Way, but in a much larger galaxy.
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Question, how many sensors does it take to identify strange vessels coming from out of nowhere?
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“they can’t do much against the terrorist-esque attacks the zerg and flood like to employ ”
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Tyranids, as far as I can tell. also use terrorist tactics.
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Raynor is a veteran against the Zerg. He knows how the Zerg thinks. He also has a knack for using whatever is at his disposal to win.
…and the Terran Raynor has proven himself to be highly resourceful in the past. – Zeratul, Starcraft: Brood War Episode 4, 2nd mission
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As for the Flood, for what few encounters he’s had with them, MC is the one with the most number of run-ins with the Flood.
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This is actually one of the few battles where experience is a very important factor to both sides.
Without the experience given by the leaders of the Imperium, Dominion, and UNSC, Team 2 would be sitting ducks to the constantly evolving tactics of Team 1.
@I-speak-braille
That was my bad for not being specific enough,I wasn’t saying that the guard would win,the initial patrol would go down hard regardless of if they were Veterans or not,just that I was a peeved that he was assuming that all Guard/Stormtroopers/U.N.S.C/who ever else he mentioned would start running about like headless chickens as if it was the first time they had seem dead people get up and say hai.I’m not going to embarrass myself by speaking for the Stormtroopers,U.N.S.C or the rest of them,but Guard Veterans,i.e.the Grenadiers(The non-Cadian equivalent of Kasrkin),Kasrkin(Kudos to whoever can translate the name),their own Stormtroopers,the Death Korps of War/Krieg and Veterans of multiple wars against Nurgle would be very hard to scare with the bodies of the dead and the infection forms(Even more so with the Krieg since they have next to no fear anyway).I apologise for the Creed/Bloody Magpies thing,I apologize for reviving a dead thread,I should have read to the last comment,but I didn’t want to ruin the ending.I also apologize for coming off as an arrogant dick about the mental fortitude of the guard’s Veterans at least fear wise.I’m kind of new here to be honest,so if anything I said is out of place or seems too much in favor of Team 2 and specifically the Guard then pointers would be appreciated.
@I-speak-braille
If you are referring to Team 1 one of the things that rendered Team 1 void and Null was a revived God Emperor Of Mankind Roflstomping Team 1(At this point he has roflstomped the 4 Chaos Gods I believe and can focus his full attention on team 1).
If you are referring to Team 2 I can’t tell you,the GEoM roflstomping Team 1was the thing that caught my attention the most.
“I apologize for reviving a dead thread,I should have read to the last comment,but I didn’t want to ruin the ending.”
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Don’t beat yourself up over it; here, unlike 99% of the rest of the internet, necroing threads isn’t frowned upon and is even encouraged should there actually be something important to say.
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I don’t think you came off as a dick at all.
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“I’m kind of new here to be honest,so if anything I said is out of place or seems too much in favor of Team 2 and specifically the Guard then pointers would be appreciated.”
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The first and most important pointer anyone could give you here is prove/support your claims with first hand sources; its the foundation of every good debater (whether I am one or not however is debatable…)
@The_Assassin711
Thanks for making me feel welcome on factpile,I’m glad that I found this site and glad for the pointers.
Getting sources about the Guard Veterans might be a bit hard,(I think anyway)but I do know that the Krieg are glad to die in battle to “atone for sins of the traitors on their planet”(Which they done.For 500 years and apparently still aren’t done) so they would have no fear of dying.As for Cadians.Failbaddon’s 13 Black Crusades.
I think the Creed thing was part true,as the Codex rules stated that he could pick ANY one unit(Without specifying maximum size,hence the Titans part) and scout with them,but some Grey Knights fanboy apparently stole his Tactical Genius.
@Kilo Actual
Hello, welcome to Factpile! In case you don’t already know, you can separate your paragraphs using
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Unfortunately its the only way to make spaces, unless you want to use
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@SgCombine
I think I gotcha’.So the above comment would be this?
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@The_Assassin711
Thanks for making me feel welcome on factpile,I’m glad that I found this site and glad for the pointers.
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Getting sources about the Guard Veterans might be a bit hard,(I think anyway)but I do know that the Krieg are glad to die in battle to “atone for sins of the traitors on their planet”(Which they done.For 500 years and apparently still aren’t done) so they would have no fear of dying.As for Cadians.Failbaddon’s 13 Black Crusades.
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I think the Creed thing was part true,as the Codex rules stated that he could pick ANY one unit(Without specifying maximum size,hence the Titans part) and scout with them,but some Grey Knights fanboy apparently stole his Tactical Genius.
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Opposed to this?
@The_Assassin711
Thanks for making me feel welcome on factpile,I’m glad that I found this site and glad for the pointers.
Getting sources about the Guard Veterans might be a bit hard,(I think anyway)but I do know that the Krieg are glad to die in battle to “atone for sins of the traitors on their planet”(Which they done.For 500 years and apparently still aren’t done) so they would have no fear of dying.As for Cadians.Failbaddon’s 13 Black Crusades.
I think the Creed thing was part true,as the Codex rules stated that he could pick ANY one unit(Without specifying maximum size,hence the Titans part) and scout with them,but some Grey Knights fanboy apparently stole his Tactical Genius.
@ Locust
Ah ok, that does make a difference in numbers, Imperial Guard has just that much more of their own weight to throw around. Team 2 is looking better all the time.
Further reinforces my belief that just the Imperium and Empire can take this easy.
@Kilo Actual
Yup, you got it
@Kilo
Well you don’t seem hostile judging via the overall tones of the posts I’m reading from you, so far.
Welcome to the site, New Blood.
There’s one sure fire way to get rid of Team 1 with complete ease,Tell the Bloody Magpies that every single organism on team 1 has a relic of the Blood Ravens past.
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“SURVIVORS ACCOUNT OF THE BATTLE OF ”
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” We were fighting these creatures that The U.N.S.C called “The Flood”,we thought they were creations of Nurgle bu the U.N.S.C insisted they were alien in origin.
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We were holding the line pretty well all things considered,but we had lost 50 of our men the little *ERROR* and 61 of the StormTroopers.we were in a staggered retreat with Group 1 covering Group2 and so forth,they were about 3 meters away when all of a sudden there was a tremendous roar from the direction we were retreating and all of a sudden there were 10 Leman Russes,Punisher Class and 3 Baneblades,StormLord Class hurling a Cascade of fire and a solid wall of lead in the direction of the organisms.With this much needed morale and firepower boost we turned and did what we did best,we held the line just as my mentor taught us to do.
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We managed to hold for 10 painful minutes all the while blazing away against the mass when he heard the tell tale howl of the Tyranids,at this point we everyone was low on ammo,and I gave the order for my men to fix bayonets as we wouldn’t go quietly to those .
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Then just as ammo was running dry we heard these little pops in the sky,we ignored them and readied ourselves to become just another part of the flood war machine when I heard this Droning of jet engines behind us,closed my eyes and accepted my fate.
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Curious as to why we weren’t dead yet I opened my eyes and a sight confounded me,the entire horde that could rip us apart,re-animate us or turn us into bio-mass were in an apparent state of shock,I turned and was not prepared for what I saw.Thousands of Space Marine drop pods bearing the Raven.As they thundered into the ground next to our position and opened with not with the hiss of hydraulics but with the crunch of metal on metal I saw an awesome sight.Gabriel Angelos himself with a look of complete fury leading his Chapter into battle,with an eardrum shattering cry of “That big one has the most relics” they stampeded over our positions into the mass of now retreating organisms.To this day I have never seen anything else make a Tyranid retreat as well as they did”.
Colonel Commissar 412th Cadian Infantry Regiment.Transcribed M42 Y158.
I’m sorry for the long post.I do believe I got carried away.I also know I can’t write worth a crap,please don’t rub it in.
@Kilo
The Blood Ravens are Badass Incarnate, I will admit this much!
Well that…and they pretty much told me I’m not alone in regards to the ancestral charts, either.
Team 1 lost indefinitely because of Team 2′s time travel hackery; aka Goa’uld..
@Tarbel
Didn’t they say back on page 1 or 2 that time travel isn’t allowed. It would kind of make this match pointless…
@Commander Cross
The Blood Ravens are one of my favorite chapters,but they do have a habit of going up against Guardsman for a few relics and getting stomped(I know they lost in DC and SS,I know the Guard won in DC and I believe the guard won is SS as well but I’m not 100%)which annoys me in addition to attacking the guard in the first place.
@Kilo
They definitely lost in SoulStorm, NQA about it.(Due mainly to the fact that Borale’s incompetencey potential rivals that of Cornelius Fudge himself, which for all I’d care shouldn’t have been possible, but is!) T_T
If I were to try to get the Blood Ravens intro’d, I’ll probably go and play it smart as to whom their opponents to get an intro with should be, really.
No wait,the BR beat the Guard in DC and someone else Stomped them,which I don’t get.If whats his face got stomped by the Ravens,why does he canonically die in the SS intro?I would imagine a blunder that bad would cost him his rank and maybe his life.
And if you mean intro’d on factpile I would fight tooth and Nail for the BR as long as it wasn’t against Imperial Guard.AND as long as Angelos is the overall commander.
@Kilo
Fair enough on this.
Besieging Silent Hill might be questionable at best, what about New Vegas?
I would say New Vegas is a good bet.(As SH would only work if Chaos possessed all the people and monsters there,then opened a warp gate.Which would defeat the spirit of the siege and render it moot)
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If they seige New Vegas will they get any local support?(NCR,BoomersBrotherhood of steel if they didn’t go ahead and mess with guys who would pulp them without any effort that is)
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They would probably just see Caesars Legion as Khorne worshipers.(In my opinion anyway)And possibly see Mr.House as an abomination,which would put them against him and his bots.
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I would also assume that to make it somewhat balanced that this will take place post House victory(possible removing everyone but Boomers) which would give him all the bots from Fortification Hill.
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Also,Do Vegas get the Courier or will said Courier switch sides?
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Of course it is your idea and I will defer to you judgement on all matters involved.
@Kilo
I’ll save it for the VMA back at factpiletopia.com, which you are welcome to join if you like.
In the meantime, what else is new that both sides appear to offer thus far?
@Commander Cross
If you are referring to this match,then nothing really.But I would propose that the Ultra’s don’t enter this match unless they are Pre-Ward smurfs.
@Kilo
I can agree to this statement.
@Kilo
I haven’t really been keeping up to date, what did Ward do to the Ultramarines?
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A bit off-topic, but I recall hearing Matt Ward changed the SM from being 7 feet tall to 8 feet tall, is that true?
I’m gonna head off for a bit,but I have one question that will probably be a no.Do the Imperium of Man get Renegade Space Marines that Haven’t converted to Chaos?(Not many,I know but there’s surely some that didn’t contract rabies,”I do things to eye sockets”,Space Bubonic Plague or CREEEEEEEEEEED! syndrome)
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On the same virtue do the GE get the Rebels?(They already get Tharwn/however you spell it,but the rebels do have Admiral “It’s a trap” Ackbar)
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Last point before I go off.Team 2 needs to kill all the Ewoks or Team 1 get uber small Stormtrooper destroying bears.
Head off for the night even.
I can’t confirm the Height increase,but Ward turned the Ultra’s into GODMODE MARINES!They are apparently the perfect marines in every single way and every loyalist marine should accept Girlyman as their Spiritual Liege and that disobeying the Codex Astartes means that that chapter/Legion(Legion only applies to the Black Templars since no-one really knows their exact number anyway.And MAYBE the Space Wolfs.) are filthy heretics,he has single handily make the Ultra’s ridiculous.One of their nick-names is “Second to Tha Emprah Marines” for good reason.And do you want to know the kicker?He used to/does play Ultra’s.He also cranked the “Broken Factor” of the Grey Knights up to about 9133.7.
@Kilo
I already had two chapters I feel ought to be strangled lately, is Ward trying to give everyone impulses to strangle much of the rest?
-___-’
My receptions for the Grey Knights is still intact, hopefully its likewise with the Space Wolves, but I feel I can’t even catch a break with the idea of Ward wardifying everything.
We suppose to get a match between him and Christopher Paolini, then?
Don’t get me wrong,I still like the Grey Knights,but some of the Wardian changes annoy me.I have a couple of questions though if you will indulge me.Is the thing about the Grey Knights turning Sisters of Battle(Who are less pure that the GK’s anyway) into “Armor Paint” to ward off Daemonic influence,then stealing a Daemon Sword true?And can you really field a whole army of monkeys with Las-Cannon/Flamer/Plasma Gun/Melta rings?
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Also,If we have to use Wardian Smurfs,I vote that Titus(And maybe Sidonus if he hasn’t been dead too long that is.) as he is the only Ultra I know of that says the Codex Astartes is a set of GUIDELINES WARD GUIDELINES and not the ultimate Answer to everything
Titus is the only Ultra we can use*
@Kilo
Titus is actually pretty cool!
What did the Sisters of Battle do to deserve that, I wonder?
Oh wait, They Did NOTHING to warrant it.
Yeah Titus and Sedonious are the only 2 cool Ultra’s I know(Except from that Chaplain in WA who said that barring his own Space Marines[NO WONDER] he couldn’t have asked for better.but then again he died because the Elfdar ending of WA is canon except that Sturnn lived.)
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And I will fight with you Commander against the Wardian Tide.If the Worst comes to it and he breaks all the Space Marine Chapters I will grant you one of my 2 ceremonial Bolt Pistols with which to do what needs to be done.I will use my pistol to take my own life as I know my Guard will be next.
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I only wish that they would Fire Ward before he just goes ahead and turns all the SoB into Slaanessh worshiping slaves.
@Kilo
Well one of the Order endings had to be canon, otherwise the Eldar and the Imperium would have been boned several ways to sunday and beyond.
I could only hope that the Blood Ravens and the Space Wolves are as relatively intact as possible, we don’t want to hear that they’re next to be warped beyond reason. T_T
The Sisters of Battle themselves could use a good and well-done group combat vs match in the site, I wonder how their better sub-factions would fare in the current campaigns at hand, in fact.(Provided they’re not frakked up beyond belief, already!)
“Didn’t they say back on page 1 or 2 that time travel isn’t allowed. It would kind of make this match pointless…”
They can’t time travel back to before the match begins, as per FP rules. But they can still go back to the start of the match repeatedly and take their knowledge of the ‘future’ with them, basically simulating the ability to see the future.
@Commander Cross
Well,I wouldn’t be much good in a sisters match(Then again you did mention group so I might be able to help)as I know next to nothing about them other that they love fire almost as much as the Salamanders.
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I also get that one of the endings had to be canon,I figure that the favoritism that Relic showed the Elfdar is why they(Not the guys that stomped Necrons without the Titan) the people who broke the thing just to beat the Necrons won.
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At least Sturnn survived or I would have jumped on Ward’s War-trukk until the Eldar were dead then Reported to the Commissariat for summary execution,if there was even one left at that point.
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In regards to the Group battle Match up,I’m not an expert,but this is an idea I have floating around.
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Team 1-Imperial Guard,NCR,CW BoS,SoB
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Team 2- Renegade Space Marines,Masters Army,Enclave,W BoS,Caesars Legion
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This time I really am going off,but thats just an idea,you have more experience that me so I’ll leave it up to you.
“And can you really field a whole army of monkeys with Las-Cannon/Flamer/Plasma Gun/Melta rings?”
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Yes; if you take Inquisitor Lord Torquemaeda Coteaz as an HQ choice you can take Inquisitorial Warbands as troops choices; you can up to 11 or 12 models per unit, all of which may be Jo’kaero Weaponsmiths.
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50+ lascannons firing each turn at BS 3 for only 15 points each. (Pricey though at $12 a model)
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“Also,If we have to use Wardian Smurfs,I vote that Titus(And maybe Sidonus if he hasn’t been dead too long that is.) as he is the only Ultra I know of that says the Codex Astartes is a set of GUIDELINES WARD GUIDELINES and not the ultimate Answer to everything”
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The video game Space Marine is non-canon. Titus doesn’t technically exist in 40k.
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Also, Ward isn’t the only person who says the Ultramarines are die-hard to following the Codex Astartes to the letter, Black Library does as well. In the novel Warriors of Ultramar, the main character Uriel Ventris breaks the Codex’s teachings to secure victory against the Tyranids; at the beginning of the sequel novel (Dead Sky Black Sun) he and his faithful companion Pasanius are exiled from the chapter and sent on a suicide mission to redeem themselves (which they weren’t expected to survive). Regardless of why they did it or that it worked, these two were severely punished for going against the Codex.
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Thank the Emperor for chapters that only use the codex to wipe their asses like the Space Wolves.
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“I only wish that they would Fire Ward before he just goes ahead and turns all the SoB into Slaanessh worshiping slaves.”
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Don’t taunt me with that, I can only dream that it would be so, that I may hate them even more so than I do now…. I can dream can’t I?
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Also, @you can CC;
Blood Ravens sieging New Vegas…? Really? That’s a horrendous stomp in favor of the Blood Ravens.
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The only way that match could possibly be fair is if it was 1 squad of Blood Ravens storming the place….
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If you haven’t noticed, all of the factions in Fallout have pitifully small armed forces, New Vegas is no exception; there are probably less Bots than there are Blood Ravens and a single space marine is worth easily 15+ bots each.
So 1 Squad of Blood Ravens vs New Vegas Factions would be more viable?
Meantime, how do the SoB fit in this match?
Those are really good points about the match…hm
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I would say that in regards to getting the SoB’s in the match I think that an entire city dedicated to vice(Insert all 3 casinos here) would be deemed corrupt,especially Gomorrah,and worthy of their purifying flame.
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The only way I can think to make this not a stomp is to switch the Renegades to Chaos,Make them a Khornate Warband and have them corrupt everyone on Team 2 into Khorne Worshipers themselves which would toughen them up somewhat.And then Give Caesars Legion either Power Armor(T-45d or T-51b) or Flak Jackets and Chain-Swords/Axes.
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Give the NCR Flak Jackets and Las-guns(With Guard squad leaders and all veterans getting either Autoguns or Hotshots depending on specialty)
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We could maybe make it fairer on Team 2 by making the Guard unit that’s taking part in the fight Elysian,hence they won’t have any Armor meaning that they would require the other factions on their team to reinforce them when/if a position is secured.(As guard or not,A few hundred Khorne Worshiping Legionnaires bum-rushing them will require them to be reinforced)
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We could switch the Renegade/Khonrenate Marines to one of the Khorne Worshiping Lost and the Damned warbands and maybe have the SoB with all Carapace in the name of fairness.
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That’s just some idea’s,discredit at will.
“But they can still go back to the start of the match repeatedly ”
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They can also take entire armies with them to the past repeatedly and kill everything from there.
@Hermit
I’m surprised that anybody else was still saying anything else on this thread,and you raise a very good point.-
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I just realized something completely broken related to what your saying:If they take their whole force back in time to the start of the match,could the guys who just TT’d go to the future a couple of hours before they went back in time and take the forces from there back?Or would doing that remove the first group they took back from the past?
“They can also take entire armies with them to the past repeatedly and kill everything from there.”
Eh, maybe. They’d be time travelling either by Stargate or with the machine Baal makes in Continuum, both of which are more suited to sending squads of infantry and similar-sized things, instead of whole armies, tanks, and spaceships.
I’m still with Team 2, due to their super weapons, but what would happen if the Flood or the Zerg (not sure about Tyrand though) infest those super weapons? I know Zerg can infest anything(except other Xel’naga’s creations), even the buildings, and the Flood too, capable of turing their enemies technology aginst themselves(like they did against the Forerunners)…. In that case I think Team 1 will eventually win the match…
“Or would doing that remove the first group they took back from the past?”
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Methinks it won’t. I could be wrong though.
NovaxSarah is starting to make sense.
@ ahrrhd
They could, but then they’d have to get close, and Team 2 has a virtually unlimited number of meatshields to throw at Team 1 due to time travel.
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Take your fleet to a time machine and go back in time to the start of the match, thereby reinforcing the troops that are already there and doubling the number of firepower and other stuff. Rinse and repeat and you have an infinite army at your command.
Team 1′s advantages come frm the zerg.
The Zerg and Flood are both infecting hive minds.
The Zerg can set up fast and easy on multiple planets at a time and move through space swiftly.
The flood are already in EVERY galaxy, meaning that their numbers are ridiculous, the only downside is that they’re trapped on the Halos (which doesn’t matter if the whole zerg collective sets out to connect and free them).
Also the Tyranids could take their damn time. The Zerg doesn’t just assimialate, it copies DNA, alters it, slaps in a connection to the Hive and poof! instant Tyranids. As far as their tech, they merely share some secrets and its done.
Plus the Zerg have Nidous Networks(Giant worms that dig in and branch across a planet) which allow instant transport across continents and the Creep makes the planets uninhabitable for their enemies.
Simply put, every problem that’s been brought up here is easily solved by the Zerg’s mobility and duplicating abilities.
“The Zerg doesn’t just assimialate, it copies DNA, alters it, slaps in a connection to the Hive and poof! instant Tyranids. As far as their tech, they merely share some secrets and its done.”
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The Tyranids do that all the time.
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“Plus the Zerg have Nidous Networks(Giant worms that dig in and branch across a planet) which allow instant transport across continents and the Creep makes the planets uninhabitable for their enemies.”
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Game mechanics. That, and most of this battle takes place in space anyway.
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“The flood are already in EVERY galaxy, meaning that their numbers are ridiculous, the only downside is that they’re trapped on the Halos (which doesn’t matter if the whole zerg collective sets out to connect and free them).”
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Halos not included. Only the factions stated on the match description are allowed to fight.
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“The Zerg can set up fast and easy on multiple planets at a time and move through space swiftly.”
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So? So can Team 2. Worse, Team 2 knows how the Zerg act, and can prepare beforehand.
It would be more fair to add from Stargate, The Replicators to even the teams in terms of numbers and to cover space combat for team 1, also, as pointed out the Zerg are good as, say tech one before the Tyranids get going to hold the line, while the flood use the enemy casulties against them. So all in all each race brings something to the table and covers their bases well.
Team 2, i’ve got pretty much nothing, don’t know most of the races on it.
Although the Snakes are a little redundant, all they can do is bring numbers and the Clones have them beat in this(Remember Thrawn used clones in his war so he does have cloning facilities) their ships as planetside landers(clone ships or Alteran/Asgard transporters) so I’d replace the Snakes with the Stargate humans.
Using the Tyranids as a foundation if you mix the Zergs fast base-building abilities as well as rapid force deployment with the Floods ability to possess corpses,as well as the Tyranids Psyonic abilities, and use the replicators nanites to coordinate across subspace on multiple planets simultaneously, and the Tyranid/Zerg spaceships with replicator shields, engines and weapons for transport and the field is even.
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As for time travel, if one of the copies is killed all of the others created after that one Cease To Exist, is why time travel is not to be used in combat, if the original dies all of em do. same up to ship or fleet level.
Using the Tyranids as a foundation if you mix the Zergs fast base-building abilities as well as rapid force deployment with the Floods ability to possess corpses,as well as the Tyranids Psyonic abilities, and use the replicators nanites to coordinate across subspace on multiple planets simultaneously, and the Tyranid/Zerg spaceships with replicator shields, engines and weapons for transport and the field is even.
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As for time travel, if one of the copies is killed all of the others created after that one Cease To Exist, is why time travel is not to be used in combat, if the original dies all of them do. same up to ship or fleet level.
“It would be more fair to add from Stargate, The Replicators to even the teams in terms of numbers and to cover space combat for team 1″
No. No it would not. At peak and with optimum strategy, the Replicators could very likely solo everything in this match, on both teams, except for *maybe* the IoM (and that’s only due to the Warp), especially if we go most recent incarnation of the Replicators (that being Ark of Truth Replicators), which we probably would due to rules.
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“while the flood use the enemy casulties against them.”
Tyranids can do this too, you know. Only instead of being limited by what said casualties are (a combat form is only as good as the host body), the Tyranids just melt it down into biomass to make whatever they damn well please.
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“Although the Snakes are a little redundant, all they can do is bring numbers and the Clones have them beat in this(Remember Thrawn used clones in his war so he does have cloning facilities) their ships as planetside landers(clone ships or Alteran/Asgard transporters) so I’d replace the Snakes with the Stargate humans.”
While I agree the Goa’uld are a little out of place, adding in the Tau’ri makes this an even larger stomp for Team 2. All they would need to do is have the IoM and GE buy enough time for the Tau’ri to get some Replicators going, and Team 2 now has an inevitable victory.
Besides, the Goa’uld are bringing more than just clones and Ha’taks to the table. Capital ship-level cloaking (remember, Apophis figured out how to cloak Ha’taks), time travel, real-time gene resequencing, sarcohpagi, beaming tech, etc.
I’d actually say the UNC is far and away the most useless faction here. Their weapons are orders of magnitude less powerful than everyone else on Team 2, they’re the only member of Team 2 with no shielding tech, their FTL sucks, they have no neat tricks. Literally the only thing (other than food for Team 1) that they bring to the table is their foreknowledge of the Flood.
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“As for time travel, if one of the copies is killed all of the others created after that one Cease To Exist, is why time travel is not to be used in combat, if the original dies all of em do. same up to ship or fleet level.”
You’re not understanding the use of time travel. The Goa’uld’s time travel devices are too small to use for large-scale troops movements (especially with the whole Cascade Effect thing going on). It would primarily be used to send back infformation; for example, Team 1 attacks a planet. Baal sends the information back to Team 2 at the start of the match. They now know exactly where and with what force Team 1 will be attacking, and can make the necessary preparations.
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“if you mix the Zergs fast base-building abilities”
Wouldn’t this be game mechanics?
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“with the Floods ability to possess corpses”
Tyranid’s version is better.
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“and use the replicators nanites to coordinate across subspace on multiple planets simultaneously, and the Tyranid/Zerg spaceships with replicator shields, engines and weapons for transport and the field is even.”
Team 1 doesn’t have the Replicators. Thank god.
“Team 1 doesn’t have the Replicators. Thank god.”
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I’m pretty sure it’s canon that the zerg are stupidly fast at setting up bases creating large invasion forces. It’s not like their troops are match for the equivalent style unit on the other factions. The ‘nids are slow to do everything, need biomass to make stuff, ect. I believe it’s the fast acting nature of the flood and zerg that give the ‘nids the foot hold that makes some or a lot of people feel like Team 1 would make a perfect storm of sorts of ugly-alien invasions. I still feel like the GE makes this a stomp, but that’s just how I see things.
Wait,do the Imperial of Man have Ursukar Creed?By codex rules(if he still has the ability) he in theory can Tactical Genius.(A:Move first[useless here],or B:outflank) a unit of unspecified size,but then that would raise the question.How could Team 1 NOT see something bigger than a Gravemind charging them?
Sorry for the double post,ignore that.As far as I know,we aren’t using codex rules.
As I said, Goa’uld time travel is the ultra stomp for Team 2. It’s too easy for Team 2 to find Team 1′s locations, travel back and blitz them before they can even do much.
Well, I think team bug take this, due to nid’s number, zerg warp transports and the flood… The key is I don’t see any limit for the flood, and in halo, there are some suggestions that the flood already taken some galaxies before come to our. Though I hear that on fact pile and it can be another fan wanking claim.
While I agree the Goa’uld are a little out of place, adding in the Tau’ri makes this an even larger stomp for Team 2. All they would need to do is have the IoM and GE buy enough time for the Tau’ri to get some Replicators going, and Team 2 now has an inevitable victory.
No, i meant the Replicators on team 1, not team 2, they are more like the members of team 1 anyways.
So it would be the Stargate humans on one side and the Replicators on the other(the humans would just be at the point where they just launched their first ship, no crazy high tech level,Replicators are also baseline, only basic operating tech or anything they can acquire after the battles start.(they can make these fighter and destroyer ships,made from replicator pieces though.)
the reason the flood are useful is while the tyranids can create units using bio mass, they cant do it Instantly On The Battlefield in a Few Seconds, it takes time to use biomass while the flood can pop in and join the fight imediatly, even if the flood unit dies the biomass is still there so no loss.
“No, i meant the Replicators on team 1, not team 2, they are more like the members of team 1 anyways.”
I know. I only mentioned them in that paragraph because Ark of Truth shows current Tau’ri can make Replicators with the Asgard Core, so pending stipulations against it, any inclusion of the Tau’ri also includes the Replicators by proxy.
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“the humans would just be at the point where they just launched their first ship, no crazy high tech level”
So… the Tau’ri would be using modern weapons and a single ship with Goa’uld shields, a bunch of railguns, and a nuke launcher? How do you expect them to be any use at all? At least the UNSc, however useless they may be, still have more than one ship.
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“Replicators are also baseline, only basic operating tech or anything they can acquire after the battles start.(they can make these fighter and destroyer ships,made from replicator pieces though.)”
That still means that after a few battles the Replicators would be toting all the tech from everything sent against them. Their whole schtick is eating and absorbing technology. The whole ‘nigh-unstoppable’ thing really helps too (what with their near-immunity to energy weapons and ability to reform after being blasted apart by kinetic ones).
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Also, giving two sides only their most basic stuff isn’t exactly fair
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“the reason the flood are useful is while the tyranids can create units using bio mass, they cant do it Instantly On The Battlefield in a Few Seconds, it takes time to use biomass while the flood can pop in and join the fight imediatly, even if the flood unit dies the biomass is still there so no loss.”
The real issue with the Flood is that they’re totally outmatched. At best they start with High Charity and, say, 100 infected Covenant ships of various sizes loaded to the brim with ground forces. There are only two ways they could really get rolling; attacking the UNSC (since everyone else has basic ships that can one-shot them in space), which is no eays task considering they’re much, much more likely to stumble across either the GE or IoM first just due to size, or by hitching a ride with the Zerg or Tyranids. The Zerg are in a similar (although not as bad) situation as the Flood; the GE or IoM could spank them with no effort at all, so they’re not a good idea to run with. The Tyranids are painfully slow, so any attempt to run with them just buys time for Team 2 to build up.
And then there’s Team 2′s time travel card. The Flood show up and cause some damage. In-combat, reports are sent describing their abilities (or the UNSC just informs the rest of Team 2 at the start of the match). Now, wherever a Flood fleet turns up, either with Zerg/Tyranids or not, that information (fleet strength, location, time of arrival, etc) is sent back to the start of the match. Baal informs the rest of Team 2 of this, the necessary precautions are taken, and now when the Flood first show up, they’re vaporized before they even finish leaving Slipspace, quite effectively halting their spread before they even fire a shot.
dear guy who came up with this battle:stop making up names of things!thati
is all.
I just realized a funny little quirk that may come into effect.There’s no tech sharing right?That means that whoever on team 1 gets to the biomass first is now the permanent owner of said biomass.
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As if some Tyranids nom nomed some dead flood forms,they would absorb the floods abilities and that may be considered “sharing”.Just a thought that popped into my head just now.
I have a question… Is sharing support (you know, large but slow nid’ force being transport by zerg warp ability) considered tech sharing
I think we need to iron out 2 things:
1. What constitutes tech sharing.
2. Why it’s disallowed in the first place.
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I mean, why wouldn’t the GE start mass producing the other groups tech and using it? Why wouldn’t they outfit the other groups’ ships with their superior hyperdrives? It’s an all out war to completely destroy thee groups of dangerous parasitic organisms, so why would team 2 cripple themselves by remaining technologically isolated from their teammates.
So… the Tau’ri would be using modern weapons and a single ship with Goa’uld shields, a bunch of railguns, and a nuke launcher? How do you expect them to be any use at all? At least the UNSc, however useless they may be, still have more than one ship.
-By the end they have 7, so not a real difference there, not even the weapons for most of them are upgraded much even by the end of Atlantis, so its a non issue.
And as I said the point where they launched it, 2-7 months after, and didn’t say it would be the only one they have, or could build, they can use the resources of the other factions even if they cant share tech, so they can build more.
As for using time travel, it is literaly using Cheat Mode so i would throw it out completly.
or it would go as such:
Team 2: Our last base is about to get crushed by trillions of enemy ships, lets Restart Game, oh sorry i mean, lets Time Travel.
wed never get a fair conclusion cause team one can get endless do overs.
sorry meant team 2 for the last sentence.
“By the end they have 7, so not a real difference there, not even the weapons for most of them are upgraded much even by the end of Atlantis, so its a non issue.”
You’re kidding, right?
When they first launch the Prometheus (in the aptly-named episode ‘Prometheus’), it has reverse-engineered gigaton-level Goa’uld shields, a few railguns (a half dozen or so), reverse-engineered Goa’uld Hyperdrive, a Ring transporter bay, and a few launchers for naquadah-enhanced nukes (a few gigatons each). They had no Asgard tech whatsoever, since that was pretty much duct taped on later (which was the whole point of the Daedalus; a ship with the Asgard tech built-in from the start rather than strapped on afterwards).
By the time of the installation of the Asgard Core on the Odyssey in ‘Unending’, they’ve got a ZPM, teraton+ -level Asgard shields, petaton-level Asgard Plasma Beams, cross-the-galaxy-in-a-few-hours Asgard Hyperdrive, Beaming tech, cloaking and phasing, Mark IX nukes (the ones they use to completely scorch Asuras in Atlantis), time dilation tech, and what essentially amounts to a Star Trek matter replicator. That’s a massive, massive difference.
And this is totally ignoring what they’ve got by the end of Atlantis, by the way (such as, well, Atlantis itself, intergalactic teleportation, Project Arcturus, the Ascension machine, a reliable way to create human-form Replicators loyal to them, even better and more reliable time travel than the Goa’uld, etc).
Hell, the Odyssey by itself would be one of the most powerful individual ships in the entire match, were it included.
Sheesh.
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“And as I said the point where they launched it, 2-7 months after, and didn’t say it would be the only one they have, or could build, they can use the resources of the other factions even if they cant share tech, so they can build more.”
Well, fortunately for everyone involved, you don’t control the stipulations of this match.
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“As for using time travel, it is literaly using Cheat Mode so i would throw it out completly.
or it would go as such:”
I read this as ‘team 1 has no way of beating time travel, so since I don’t like it I’m going to ignore it’.
That’s not how these things work, man. The Goa’uld are already prevented from going back thousands of years to wipe each race out before they achieve space travel by Factpile rules, but there’s nothing preventing them from using time travel within the scope of the match (in fact, there’s a clarification saying exactly this is allowed).
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“Team 2: Our last base is about to get crushed by trillions of enemy ships, lets Restart Game, oh sorry i mean, lets Time Travel.”
Hardly. It would never, ever get that far.
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“wed never get a fair conclusion cause team one can get endless do overs.”
We do have a conclusion. Team 2 (or rather, the GE and IoM with some help from the Goa’uld, while the UNSC, Peacekeepers, and Terran Dominion act as cheerleaders) completely murderstomps Team 1 through judicious use of superweapons and time travel.
If circumstances dictate that it is essentially impossible for one side to lose, but not vice versa, then that side must obviously win.
“We do have a conclusion. Team 2 (or rather, the GE and IoM with some help from the Goa’uld, while the UNSC, Peacekeepers, and Terran Dominion act as cheerleaders) completely murderstomps Team 1 through judicious use of superweapons and time travel.”
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Correct.
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Just to be clear on tech sharing. It was decided a few pages ago that the other factions are free to use the technology of the others, but they are not allowed to manufacture their own weapons based on another group’s technology.
For example, everyone in team 2 can use the advanced prosthetic technology of the Terrans, but they are not allowed to copy it and make it their own.
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The way I see this match going, is that team 1 will capture at most a fifth of the galaxy (Zomb has made it clear that this match takes place in a supergalaxy) before the defenses of team 2 kick in and make it impossible for team 1 to attack.
And that small success is attributed to the lightning speed assaults that the Zerg will bring to the table.
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Just to put icing on the cake of the team 2 victory, they may not even have to play the time travel card. They could turn the tactics of the enemy against them and swarm team 1 with Battle Droids.