Guts Vs Bloodthirster

Mister Teal February 10, 2012 at 7:59 am - #1

IB with WH

StealthRanger February 10, 2012 at 8:00 am - #2

Meh, leaning toward the Bloodthirster

Mister Teal February 10, 2012 at 8:01 am - #3

The wiki for Guts doesn’t seem to have a list of powers/abilities. Although I could just have missed it. Never heard of Berserk though.

Xeno Dimentio February 10, 2012 at 8:02 am - #4

Who the he’ll is Guts? What is Beserk?

StealthRanger February 10, 2012 at 8:03 am - #5

Meh, OBD isn’t giving me anything impressive either
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Unless theres something else, id say the Bloodthirster wins
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At least it isn’t a 40K Bloodthirster. Or my gravatar

Fatazn February 10, 2012 at 8:33 am - #6

Guts is a demon merc with a prosthetic arm that doubles as ether a crossbow or cannon.

He carries a large claymore and has a troubled childhood.

Namely his dad selling him as a sex slave to his friend.

It gets worse as he gets older.

As long as he don’t get taken over by the demon in him, he won’t be able to win easily.

Commander Cross February 10, 2012 at 8:40 am - #7

Guts is a Big Badass Merc from the Berzerk Universe.
The Madder he is, the more of a threat he becomes, in fact.

orber February 10, 2012 at 8:58 am - #8

I haven’t followed Berserk lately but doesn’t Guts have some sort of demon armor that already boosts his already high combat feats these days?
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Last time I checked vanilla Guts could stand his ground against this guy:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=h63YO1cInQM
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And that video is pretty early in the series, At the current time he is rather adapt at fighting bigass demons and whatnot.

Crimson Sentry February 10, 2012 at 9:03 am - #9

As one who has read all of berserk I can comfortably say guts would get his shit tossed, but not right away. With the current armor he has I think he could put up a fight for a good 30min. and maybe get in a few hits, assuming his sword could penetrate the bloodthirsters hide (it has no special properties, it’s just huge, about 6ft). The problem would be whenever the bloodthirster hit him, it wouldn’t kill him out right because the magic armor he is wearing will snap bones back together for him, but not stop bleeding. So I guess the best question to ask ourselves is, can Guts hit the bloodthirsters head before he bleeds out?

Sauroposeidon February 10, 2012 at 9:38 am - #10

I have heard nothing and seen nothing but scary horrible things about Guts. The dude’s got a gigantic sword that he uses to smack people around the way baseball players smack balls… From what I’ve heard about the manga version of him, the anime version seems kind of downplayed. That’s typical for manga/comics being turned in to shows/movies though..
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Also.. kind of lame how they had Guts lose his strength for JUST long enough for them to show how powerful Zodd is against normal soldiers before he and his buddy go back in to kick ass mode. I always hate it when animes do this, it seems to be one of the most common anime cliches around.

Crimson Sentry February 10, 2012 at 9:59 am - #11

I think it should be said that, guts has never defeated zodd the immortal, he has stalemated him later in the story, but never won. A bloodthirster should trounce Zodd like cake, the only reason he couldn’t do the same to gutz is because of his armor and his agility.

IamTaco February 10, 2012 at 10:06 am - #12

For those of you who haven’t heard of Bersek or Guts, it’s a manga written by Kentaro Miura and you should check it out. Its the best and darkest manga I have ever read.

Belisaurius February 10, 2012 at 11:18 am - #13

www.mangafox.com/manga/berserk/c226/1.html
Start there and finish the chapter. It’s a good read.

Without the berserker armor, Guts is stronger than most humans.

With the armor, he’s terrifying to most monsters.
At page 15 we see that his swings are harder than cannon shots.
At 17 it is revealed that Guts no longer feels pain.
In the net chapter we see him smash through the haft of a war hammer and catch a dragon by the tail.
After that the Berserker armor splints Guts’s broken bones with spurs of iron and Guts’s sword crack corundun

www.mangafox.com/manga/berserk/c227/19.html
www.mangafox.com/manga/berserk/c227/21.html

So don’t write off Guts just yet.

Total_Overkill February 10, 2012 at 12:09 pm - #14

“Who the he’ll is Guts? What is Beserk?”

Not for Bronies… do to the existence of Rape Horses (god i wish i was joking)

Total_Overkill February 10, 2012 at 12:10 pm - #15

It should be noted that “Dragon Slayer” Gutts OMFG huge sword, does indeed have special properties that allow him to straight up kill spectral entities, demons, undead, etc. (Beyond the physical qualities)

Xeno Dimentio February 10, 2012 at 2:53 pm - #16

““Who the he’ll is Guts? What is Beserk?”

Not for Bronies… do to the existence of Rape Horses (god i wish i was joking)”
Umm…… And what makes you think i havnt seen worse lol?
In any case……
If Guts is at ‘full power’, and the blood thirster is at ‘average power’, that usually tells me ‘stomp’.

StealthRanger February 10, 2012 at 5:59 pm - #17

“So don’t write off Guts just yet.”
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Im not saying its a stomp. Im just saying that the Bloodthirster would win more times then not due to likely being physically superior (strength, durability, etc) to Guts (i could be wrong but OBD says hes a Class 5 with Building+ level durability)

Total_Overkill February 10, 2012 at 6:10 pm - #18

Well Mr.Ranger, would you care to regale us with tales of how the Empire takes down a Bloodthirster?
Am i wrong in estimating that it takes at least 1000 soldiers and some focus-fired cannon barrages?

Commander Cross February 10, 2012 at 6:56 pm - #19

What is the full extent of his Arsenal, to be sure?

Commander Cross February 10, 2012 at 7:07 pm - #20

So is Guts taking this so far, yet?

Total_Overkill February 10, 2012 at 7:24 pm - #21

“What is the full extent of his Arsenal, to be sure?”

Of “magic” equipment

Dragonslayer, 9ft (min) long 1.5ft (min wide) sword, with the ability to kill spectral, undead, demonic entities. (Subsequently preventing their reformation/regeneration)

Berserker Armor, full body armor, unknown material (never been damaged).
Storywise, its said to remove “all human limits, to self destructive levels” Allowing incredible strength, speed, reflexes, etc. At the cost of permanently screwing over your body or even outright killing yourself.
Wearer can no longer feel any pain or fear… and is possessed with the urge to kill everything. In case of broken bones, “magic” spikes are impaled through the user to reinforce the region (naturally causing further flesh damage, and bleeding)

Example of sword and armor
static.zerochan.net/full/43/10/545543.jpg

1 pouch of Healing dust
In battle, the most it will ever do is temporarily stop bleeding, out of battle it accelerates regeneration/healing above the levels of most humans (still leaves horrific injuries and scar tissue)

Brand of Sacrifice, if you can call it “equipment” a cursed wound that allows Guts to detect the presence and general location of evil entities, undead, etc etc.
It also draws such being to Guts, as they are overcome with desire (to possess, kill, eat, rape, whatever) will it effect Mr.Blood? I cant say either way

Of “normal” equipment

Prosthetic arm with magnetic grip, hand falls away to reveal a hidden cannon. Repeating crossbow attachment connects to the top.
Probably a dozen silver throwing daggers, couple hand grenades, and a silver shortsword that ive never seen him use in 20 years >.> probably a few more inconsequential things that wont have the slightest effect on a Bloodthirster

Jwlynas February 10, 2012 at 10:05 pm - #22

Lets get some feats for either side shall we? Rather than relatively vague equipment lists and statements.

The Drifter February 10, 2012 at 11:21 pm - #23

How exactly would the sword Dragonslayer effect a run of the mill Bloodthirster?
Last i checked, they don’t receive Khollars do they?

Commander Cross February 11, 2012 at 1:13 am - #24

@TheDrifter

What would happen if the ‘Average’ Bloodthirster(what Guts is up against) winds up having it or not?

Commander Cross February 11, 2012 at 1:27 am - #25

Shall I look up Tv Tropes for info on Guts’ feats?

Belisaurius February 11, 2012 at 1:54 am - #26

Collars of Khorne aren’t going to stop Dragonslayer.

While the weapon does have supernatural properties, it’s not truely magical. There was no spell cast on it and it causes no arcane effects. What it does have is spiritual presence, allowing it to interact with spiritual beings normally.

StealthRanger February 11, 2012 at 1:55 am - #27

I thought magical weapons worked on Greater Daemons and it was magical powers/or AoE effects/whatever of magic weapons that were nulled

Dr. Lowk McNinja February 11, 2012 at 2:33 am - #28

Dr. Lowk McNinja February 11, 2012 at 3:55 am - #29

Another skill/speed feat
This guy dodges attacks/acrobatic
www.mangareader.net/96-1129-111/berserk/chapter-9.html to 115
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Guts ends up being better then that guy
www.mangareader.net/96-1129-119/berserk/chapter-9.html to 124

Belisaurius February 11, 2012 at 2:23 pm - #30

So how does the bloodthirster measure up?

Deus Ex Machina February 11, 2012 at 6:27 pm - #31

Sadly I can’t help much in this debate as I am not all that aware of abilities for Warhammer FB Bloodthirsters. Will have to remedy that one day….

tau43 February 11, 2012 at 7:54 pm - #32

“Sadly I can’t help much in this debate as I am not all that aware of abilities for Warhammer FB Bloodthirsters. Will have to remedy that one day….”
-Chaos Deamons have pretty much stayed the same with the exception of the Soul Grinder.

StealthRanger February 11, 2012 at 8:39 pm - #33

I thought that 40K Greater Daemons were stronger than WHF ones

tau43 February 11, 2012 at 8:45 pm - #34

“I thought that 40K Greater Daemons were stronger than WHF ones”
-Tabletop wise they are pretty much the same.

StealthRanger February 11, 2012 at 8:47 pm - #35

Fair enough
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Either way I know little of WHF other than this site and a few IRL friends who say something about owning a WHF RTS game
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So i can’t really debate this

Dr. Lowk McNinja February 11, 2012 at 10:01 pm - #36

One more strength feat. cuts through a shield, heavy armor, the guy, and the pillar behind him.
www.mangareader.net/96-1122-168/berserk/chapter-2.html to 173
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Also pretty nimble on his feet
www.mangareader.net/96-1129-162/berserk/chapter-9.html

The Drifter February 11, 2012 at 11:46 pm - #37

So are the cutting feats due to his strenght or all derived from his sword Dragonslayer? If its just from Dragonslayer, i don’t see how he’ll be able to keep up with a Bloodthirster.

Could you possibly provide parry’ing feats that show him blockin incredibly strong strikes?

The Drifter February 11, 2012 at 11:52 pm - #38

Excuse the double post. But if the collar of khorne is the same between all of Khornes subjects, specifically flesh hounds and b.thirsters, then he’ll be immune to the magical properties of Dragonslayer

Total_Overkill February 12, 2012 at 12:38 am - #39

“So are the cutting feats due to his strenght or all derived from his sword Dragonslayer? ”
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His strength is his own, but naturally weapon weight and momentum plays a roll.
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“But if the collar of khorne is the same between all of Khornes subjects, specifically flesh hounds and b.thirsters, then he’ll be immune to the magical properties of Dragonslayer”
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Collar of Khorne does not ward against magic/enchanted/demonic weapons. Khorne fully supports such a practice
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“Could you possibly provide parry’ing feats that show him blockin incredibly strong strikes?”
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Lets start with a size comparion. Guts bottom, 6ft.5. Zodd leftish, 12ft. Gurunberd 20+ft tall giant
www.mangafox.com/manga/berserk/c223/13.html
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Gurunberd wields a warhammer as big as he is.
www.mangafox.com/manga/berserk/c223/16.html
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Guts manages a parry and a half ass block. He lives, and is sent flying do to physics.
www.mangafox.com/manga/berserk/c224/6.html
www.mangafox.com/manga/berserk/c224/10.html
(Should be noted that Gurunberd is a terribly disguised demon, and Gutts is without the Berserker armor at this point)

Dr. Lowk McNinja February 12, 2012 at 1:09 am - #40

“So are the cutting feats due to his strenght or all derived from his sword Dragonslayer?”
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Haven’t gotten to info on the Dragonslayer however it seems it’s due to his own strength.
This seems to be part of his regular excersise with his swords
img9.imageshack.us/img9/6748/66352688.jpg
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Even as a young Guts was able to swing a sword about his size very quickly.
www.mangareader.net/96-1124-93/berserk/chapter-4.html
Blocking a huge(even compared to the adults) guys attack
www.mangareader.net/96-1124-94/berserk/chapter-4.html
I Think this was the first instance shown of him cutting through heavy armor.
www.mangareader.net/96-1124-96/berserk/chapter-4.html
www.mangareader.net/96-1124-97/berserk/chapter-4.html
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Another young Guts
www.mangareader.net/96-1125-87/berserk/chapter-5.html to pg 89
===
“Could you possibly provide parry’ing feats that show him blockin incredibly strong strikes?”
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Post #28 speed feat. The big guy is swinging around a large ax at highspeed.
This is the ax
www.mangareader.net/96-1122-35/berserk/chapter-2.html
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Younger Guts example/while injured
www.mangareader.net/96-1127-56/berserk/chapter-7.html up to pg 65
Also counts as
Speed: Blocking all the attacks
Strength: armor is stated to be three time thicker then others an Guts cuts through the shield then through his helmet.
===
another speed feat, arrows
www.mangareader.net/96-1127-66/berserk/chapter-7.html
www.mangareader.net/96-1127-67/berserk/chapter-7.html
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www.mangareader.net/96-1127-85/berserk/chapter-7.html
===
Bit on stamina, despite the previous damage due to protecting Casca he goes on to take out almost 100 soldiers alone.
www.mangareader.net/96-1127-103/berserk/chapter-7.html

orber February 12, 2012 at 5:02 am - #41

So I’ve been power reading myself trough a couple of chapters from Berserk.And the thing Guts has the most diffeculy with appears to be his injuries and pain.As soon as 1 of those big ass monsters gets a hit on him he breaks a couple of bones (logical as those attacks from the monsters generally bust thick solid wounds) and the pain leaves him generally incapacitated.
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From what I readed later on, none of this is a problem due too the Berserker armor, that forces broken bones to be replaced and pain is non-exsistant.Have yet to see a good speed feat in his armor but everything so far posted is easily doubled from the looks of it.
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So it would be nice to see some Thirster feats.How much impact does the strike of it’s axe has? How the everloving fuck did these weak men of the Empire manage to take down a Thirster en what does it take to take one down?

orber February 12, 2012 at 5:06 am - #42

*(logical as those attacks from the monsters generally bust thick solid wounds*
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Oops, I meant thick solid walls.

Jwlynas February 12, 2012 at 11:56 am - #43

“Collar of Khorne does not ward against magic/enchanted/demonic weapons. Khorne fully supports such a practice”

However, Obsidian Armour does exactly that, takes the magic properties of weapons and nullifies them. Of course, that’s only tabletop equipment rather than in-lore equipment, because canonically, nothing stands up to a bloodthirster without some serious back-up from either magic weapons or a whole army of black-powder weaponry.

The Drifter February 12, 2012 at 3:51 pm - #44

All in all i think Guts will not be surviving this battle against this High Handed Slayer. Not only do blood thirsters hav the Obsidian armour which does provide vast protection to a Bloodthirster. Then you hav his ax, which can be used to smash fortress gates.

Hell, Bloodthirster could just fly around and whip Guts to death. Also, Dragonslayer could potentially fuck up this Bloodthirsters since it harms them physically and across the Astral. Now, since this is the case his armour. Negates the part of Dragonslayer that hurts the Astral part of a demon.
“Bloodthirsters bear sections of armour adorned with the glowing skull rune of their master. These attest to the blessing of the Lord of Battles, who abhors above all else the cowardly use of sorcerous powers on the field of battle” pg100 of Realm of Chaos

Commander Cross February 12, 2012 at 4:07 pm - #45

Is there more that Guts can do to kill that Bloodthirster in question, to be sure?

Belisaurius February 12, 2012 at 4:18 pm - #46

If the obsidian armor is a physical object then the Dragon Slayer can smash it.

While the bloodthirster could stay out of range and whip guts to death, it won’t. Khorne revels in close combat and no bloodthirster worthy of the name is going to pass up the chance to face a strong opponent head to head.

Deus Ex Machina February 13, 2012 at 12:24 am - #47

Actually there was a statement that I am too lazy to find that says that Fantasy Bloodthirsters are weaker than their 40k counterparts, as them wrecking worlds and laughing off anti-tank rounds doesn’t bode well for arrows.

Gluttonous-Behemoth February 13, 2012 at 12:27 am - #48

@Deus

In Fantasy, the Gods are weaker because the scale of the battles is infinitely smaller (confined to one world rather than several galaxies and millions of worlds) so their daemons are as well.

Dr. Lowk McNinja February 13, 2012 at 12:36 am - #49

“fly around and whip Guts to death.”
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He’s got some pretty good reflexs at catching things coming at him mid air
i2.mangareader.net/berserk/9/berserk-1556886.jpg
i17.mangareader.net/berserk/9/berserk-1556888.jpg
i22.mangareader.net/berserk/9/berserk-1556890.jpg
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And dodging whip like things
i31.mangareader.net/berserk/9/berserk-1556908.jpg
i26.mangareader.net/berserk/9/berserk-1556911.jpg

Jwlynas February 13, 2012 at 5:09 am - #50

The only Bloodthirster I can think of offhand for proper non-blurb tales is the one that did a number on a Dwarf army (And took the full brunt of three magic weapons, at least one of which was forged by the greatest dwarven rune smith of all time) in the Gotrek and Felix books.

Will search for feats later on, unless anyone wants to beat me to it?

Dr. Lowk McNinja February 13, 2012 at 6:20 am - #51

Looking back at a good deal of Guts’ use of arrows and knives, he tends to go for eyes like this
i3.mangareader.net/berserk/15/berserk-26934.jpg
i4.mangareader.net/berserk/15/berserk-26935.jpg
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Would the Bloodthirster’s eyes be vulnerable to such an attack?

Cautiosly Pessimistic February 13, 2012 at 4:28 pm - #52

I’d have to say that Guts would win this one. I seem to remember Guts’ sword being able to slay deamons and monsters that only magic could kill. If Guts is in a full rage with his berserker armor allowing him to recover from blows that would reduce a man to a paste, he’d definately be able to send the Bloodthirster back to the Warp.

Whether Guts dies or not after the fight is what I’m not so sure about. Who knows, maybe Khorne would extend his life for doing such a good job spilling blood for all those years.

Belisaurius February 14, 2012 at 9:06 am - #53

It’s really a bit ironic. Guts is one of the few warriors that can truely embody kornate ideas. On the other hand, Guts Hates all gods and is at war with apostles already.

Considering that damn hound that takes over when ever Guts uses the Armor, I’d say Guts is already possessed. Possibly by his own savagery. Kinda funny if you think about it.

NinjaFresh February 15, 2012 at 9:35 pm - #54

Now this really depends on also what the average Bloodthirster has for his gifts? Also just because Guts can hit doesn’t mean he will actually do damage with the way daemons work they have the ability to warp the space around them giving them a save that could stop anything from a cannon shot to a lascannon with not even a scar to show for it. All in all Warhammer has a huge power scale and it is hard to escape from the grim dark bull shit that gets pulled out of some writers asses. *Cough* Matt Ward *cough*

Dr. Lowk McNinja February 15, 2012 at 11:53 pm - #55

” Also just because Guts can hit doesn’t mean he will actually do damage with the way daemons work they have the ability to warp the space around them giving them a save that could stop anything from a cannon shot to a lascannon with not even a scar to show for it.”
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I only know a little about the verse but aren’t lascannons apart of 40k. What about Warhammer fantasy can they take the same there?
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Also Guts’ sword isn’t exactly just a big pieces of sharpened metal anymore.
i18.mangareader.net/berserk/26/berserk-1592835.jpg
i35.mangareader.net/berserk/26/berserk-1592836.jpg
i24.mangareader.net/berserk/26/berserk-1592894.jpg
i12.mangareader.net/berserk/26/berserk-1592895.jpg

Dr. Lowk McNinja February 16, 2012 at 6:18 am - #56

Activated Berserker Armor feats
===
Charging fast enough to knock back this big guy
www.mangareader.net/96-1146-203/berserk/chapter-26.html to pg.204
from there
Pg.205-207: Strength + agility
Pg.210: States it allows Guts to go beyond his normal reflexes. Even before the armor his reflexes allowed him to
-block arrows,
-speedblitz(he was weakend and tired during this)
www.mangareader.net/96-1136-168/berserk/chapter-16.html to pg.172
===
Durability/Strength
www.mangareader.net/96-1147-19/berserk/chapter-27.html to pg.27
===
Agility/Strength
www.mangareader.net/96-1151-47/berserk/chapter-31.html to pg.50
Pg.84-90
===
Here he looks like Batman…
i18.mangareader.net/berserk/31/berserk-30313.jpg

Belisaurius February 16, 2012 at 9:42 am - #57

So here’s the question, how well do WHFB Bloodthirsters stand up to cannon balls?

I-speak-braille February 17, 2012 at 4:03 pm - #58

Fantasy greater daemons are far weaker than 40k greater daemons do to circumstance. A single daemon prince can easily claim an entire planet for chaos in 40k, the entirety of chaos struggles to do so for one planet.

weaker 40k greater daemons are massacring entire squads of super human adamantium armored space marines at a time, and laying claim to entire sectors for chaos. Their WHF counterparts struggle to conquer simple stone castles.

From what I read you can count on one (maybe two) hands how many people in WHF can solo a bloodthirster and live (much less win). Said individuals include demi-gods, ascended beings, or reality bending magic users. As well Greater daemons have a stigma for carving through entire armies by themselves.

Unless Guts can parry blows that easily lop reinforced castle doors in half, evade stomps that would crush a boulder, and outskill a monster that’s spent eternity battling all sorts of different daemons, immortals, and demi-gods, he’s pretty much done for. here’s a few pics that potrays bloodthirsters well enough

majesticchicken.deviantart.com/art/Khorne-s-Fury-160527524

www.desura.com/groups/warhammer-40k-fans-group/images/bloodthirster

www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=675&tbm=isch&tbnid=W5G00DKbUSyN9M:&imgrefurl=http://gmortschaotica.blogspot.com/2011/05/list-design-for-beginners-part-3a-what.html&docid=d130LvBfJ9tV9M&imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VfDEuzN5IsQ/TdVSe-BbI2I/AAAAAAAAB6k/OoIBU8jKN3A/s1600/Daemons_WH_art.jpg&w=620&h=877&ei=5r4-T7bYFIfAtge2w9ncBQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=193&sig=103041805374412750123&page=1&tbnh=152&tbnw=107&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=0CFgQrQMwBQ&tx=70&ty=74

A bloodthirster would likely be overkill. We should substitute a Khornate herald or Myabe the Skulltaker instead.

Dr. Lowk McNinja February 17, 2012 at 6:21 pm - #59

“Unless Guts can parry blows that easily lop reinforced castle doors in half, evade stomps that would crush a boulder, and outskill a monster that’s spent eternity battling all sorts of different daemons, immortals, and demi-gods, he’s pretty much done for.”
-
Sounds like Zodd… but Guts has yet to go up against him at eithers fullest, berserk armor or not. Disregarding the last part it also sounds like some Apostles, like the first one in fact. Back then Gut’s wasn’t as prepared and experienced as he is now but still manage to do some damage against him.
===
How fast are they and how mobile are bloodthirster? Even without activating Berserker Armor Guts is pretty quick, agile, and used to fighting things bigger then him.

Belisaurius February 22, 2012 at 9:19 am - #60

@I-speak-braille
As far as I can tell, yes, Guts can do all these things.

Guts’s swing hits with more force than a cannon shot and historicly, a single cannon shot was enough to blast through a castle door.

He’s fast enough to deflect a falling ceiling into a lunging opponent.

In terms of skill, Guts out performs Nosferatu Zodd

Dr. Lowk McNinja February 22, 2012 at 9:21 am - #61

“In terms of skill, Guts out performs Nosferatu Zodd”
-
Eh, I got the feeling that they were somewhat equal.

Dr. Lowk McNinja March 17, 2012 at 12:33 am - #62

Dr. Lowk McNinja March 17, 2012 at 1:27 am - #63

Sorry that was for Guts v Link

Mortis Rex December 25, 2012 at 4:57 am - #64

Reading the manga would definitely help other see how truly awesome Guts is. Hes fought almost Gozilla sized monsters and killed them.

Guts Vs Bloodthirster

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