Suggested by SgCombine
Infiltration
A Brute Chieftain (Halo) leads a strike team against a Wraith Hive-Ship (Stargate). Assuming they get inside the dart bay they will have to fight their way to the control room and kill the Wraith Queen, all while protecting an Engineer who will take over the hive-ship after the queen is killed.
Chieftain – Energy Shield, Gravity Hammer, Fuel Rod, 1 Flare, 1 Invincibility, Brute Power Armor.
4 Body Guards – Energy Shield, Brute Shot, Mauler, 2 spike grenades, Brute Power Armor.
5 Stalkers – Cloak, Plasma Rifle, Mauler, 2 Firebombs, Brute Power Armor.
Will the Pack add the Hive-Ship to their fleet, or will the Wraith end up feeding on Space Ape blood?
Link to full size image of Hive-Ship (opens new window)
How long does an “invincibility” last?
Ooh, new category?
Er, do they start in the ship or outside in a Phantom?
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Because a Phantom doesn’t have a cloak, is pretty large, poorly armed, has no shields and moves slowly. And the masses of Darts will blow it to pieces in no time at all.
Do the Wraith know the Brutes are there? Because if so we’ve seen Hive Ships rearrange their interior fast enough to be seen happening in real-time (episode Infection, season 5 SGA), so they might be able to trap the Brutes if they can hold them up for a while.
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For on-board defenses, a typical Wraith Hive Ship contains, as the name suggests, an entire Hive (basically a clan or tribe), which amounts to ‘tens of thousands’ of troops, although most are in hibernation but can be awakened, and automatically wake up if the Queen is killed (as seen in the pilot of SGA). Wraith primarily use stunners, which overload the nervous system of their target and basically paralyze/knock them out. They can drop a human immediately in a single shot, so a Brute might be able to take a few hits, but not very many. Once stunned, the Wraith take their victims and feed upon them, draining their life force. This artificially ages their victim (although they will return to their normal age over time if not sucked dry and killed; it’s kind of weird) and nourishes the Wraith. This also has the side effect of supercharging the Wraith’s healing processes for some time; we often see even standard Wraith cannon fodder stand right back up after being filled with bullets to continue the fight. One episode in particular (‘The Defiant One’, season 1 SGA) deals with a Wraith whose healing is so supercharged he takes every piece of ordinance Shepard and McKay have (including C4) and keeps on ticking; they need a Puddlejumper’s Drones (starship-grade weapons capable of killing capital ships in a few shots) to take him down for good, by order of total vaporization. Nasty stuff.
Note that this super-supercharged Wraith got this way by feeding on other Wraith. Totally possible to duplicate if things go badly.
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The Wraith are also psychic; their preferred tactic is to project phantom images into the minds of their foes (hence the name ‘Wraith’). This could prove extremely useful in depleting the Brute’s limited supplies, especially since (to my knowledge), they’ve never encountered anything like this before.
The only reason the protagonists from SGA discover this and stop wasting ammo on these ‘ghosts’ is because they are told they are illusions by someone who knows quite a bit about the Wraith (and in fact is part Wraith herself). I doubt the Brutes will catch on anytime soon.
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On the topic of Psychic powers, there are two more I think may be useful; the Wraith all share a psychic Hivemind with any other Wraith in the area (‘the area’ being interplanetary, but not interstellar, distances, so it definitely covers the entire Hive Ship). Could be useful.
Another big one is available only to the Queen so far as we have seen, but she is able to psychically compel people, going so far as to be able to force them to perform actions against their will (most commonly, ‘kneel’). Might be useful if any of the Brutes manage to get through.
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All in all, between being massively outnumbered, in unfamiliar territory, having their minds played with, and with such limited supplies, I don’t think the Brutes can do this. Their one saving grace may be the 5 Cloaked brutes, however. Do these cloaks last forever? We’ve seen Wraith sensors pick up starship-level cloaks, but only when the ship had a ZPM. No idea how regular sensors will react to Halo’s inferior and smaller-scale cloaking.
“Er, do they start in the ship or outside in a Phantom?”
Sorry for the double post but this is an excellent point. I had assumed the Brutes started inside, but if they’re outside there’s no way in hell they’re getting in. The Dart bay only opens when its letting Darts out.
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Also, just remembered, but the Wraith could just beam all the Brutes up with a dart before they even get out of the dart bay. Game, set, match.
@Zazax
Unfortunately for the Brutes
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“Assuming they get inside the dart bay”-OP
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This seems to tell us that entering the Dart Bay is one of their main objectives, so they have almost no chance of getting inside with a Phantom.
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That being said, it doesn’t determine how they get inside, so they could take over a dart or maybe use a seraph. The only instances of the Atlantis teams getting on board a Wraith ship is when they hijacked a Dart correct?
Lol the Brutes get nowhere. The Hive ships are over 5.5 kilometers long (think half the size of Vader’s SSD). That’s larger than any Covenant ship, save for one. And Brutes, given their namesake, are not the spec ops type. The Brutes will announce their presence, even if they are trying to be stealthy.
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The Wraith have advanced head sets which allow them to see heat signatures and other cool stuff. Their psychic ability will confuse the Brutes when they start seeing things that aren’t there..
We’ve seen numerous times how when Atlantis teams are discovered, Wraith swarm to the intruders. If the Brutes get caught, they all get stunned and taken to be fed on. The only thing going for the Brutes is the Queen will likely want to interrogate the Brutes herself, giving them an opportunity to kill her. But that’s the only chance. Taking over the ship is impossible.
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” This seems to tell us that entering the Dart Bay is one of their main objectives, so they have almost no chance of getting inside with a Phantom.”
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I think OP wants us to assume they’ve gotten inside.
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” The only instances of the Atlantis teams getting on board a Wraith ship is when they hijacked a Dart correct?”
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Shepards team once flew a cloaked Jumper into the Dart bay while the Darts were launching.
@sgtnacho
Nope, they fly in all the time in cloaked jumpers.
I’d say a better match would be a Brute controlled capital ship vs a Hive ship.
Both get thousands of troops, but the Wraith get in the tens of thousands and the Brutes get in the thousands
halo.wikia.com/wiki/Covenant_assault_carrier
This ship seems the best match in terms of intended use. Brutes are better equipped than Wraith, Wraith are more numerous than Brutes. This seems to play to both their strengths.
Both ships are also capable of glassing planets (or at least depopulating them)
This would give your assault squad a chance of getting on board xD
@sgt
I believe they got in a few times using Jumpers. Anyway lets assume there are Seraphs keeping the darts busy, so they get past the darts. Now they have to deal with the wraith themselves. How strong is a wraith really, I remember them back handing humans into a wall, but I don’t think they can take on a brute in h2h.
“The Wraith have advanced head sets which allow them to see heat signatures and other cool stuff.”
I forgot about that. Do Halo cloaks mask thermal signatures? Because if not, then the cloaks will in fact be totally useless.
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“Nope, they fly in all the time in cloaked jumpers.”
But they only ever get in when Darts are leaving. Regardless, it’s a moot point. They’re still not getting out of the Dart Bay once inside.
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“I’d say a better match would be a Brute controlled capital ship vs a Hive ship.”
Actually, given the calcs over on 40k vs Stargate, a Hive Ship could one-shot damn near anything in Halo; even the Forerunner stuff. Multi-teraton impacts per shot FTW. Especially when they can keep up a level of sustained fire that makes this absolutely insane. Here’s a pic of the Siege of Atlantis:
images.wikia.com/stargate/images/0/00/Wraith_attack.JPG
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“How strong is a wraith really, I remember them back handing humans into a wall, but I don’t think they can take on a brute in h2h.”
Wraith are strong enough to easily manhandle humans (the backhanding into a wall bit is actually a good example. It’s quite casual too), but they’re not quite on the level of Brutes. Thankfully they don’t have to be, as Stunners, Stun Bombs (or grenades, or whatever they’re called), regeneration, totally insane numbers advantage, psychic powers, and even a single Dart with it’s beaming thing will win this easily for the Wraith.
One thing going for the Brute is their shields though. Halo shields are quite good at stopping bullets and the Halo plasma has a EM effect which makes them far more effective against shields but the Wraith stunners are likely not going to be that effective in small numbers.
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That said I seriously doubt that the Brute’s can get into the Hive in the first place, unless we are going to ignore the battle scenario rules.
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And if we are, I think that the Brutes will be very confused by all the Wraith’s psychic wraiths floating around and more to the point the Queen herself may be able to take control of the Chieftain, or any other Brute, with a bit of effort and cause abit of chaos.
Well from what I saw the wraith usually don’t use their psyhic powers too often, and we don’t know how it would work on complete aliens like Brutes. Its only been seen used against humans. They wouldn’t use stun bombs either since it usually stuns entire bases and ships, and if they do use it, I think we know who will wake up first. We’re already assuming they get past the darts so that a non factor. What I want to know is how many shots from the stunner will it take to drop the Chieftains shields since hes the main threat. Also, we’ve seen peak humans like Ronon take several stun shots, then get up in a few minutes, the Wraith don’t have any lethal weapons besides knifes if I recall correctly.
Wraith aren’t as physically strong as brutes, but they’re several times as strong as humans, and much faster as well. On top of that they have serious regenerative capabilities (even a wraith that hasn’t fed recently usually takes several bursts of MP5 rounds on full auto to the chest before going down).
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Another noteworthy ability is the fact that if they manage to touch their palm to the victim their feeding mechanism immobilizes it, making brute strength even less of a concern.
@Galorian
In the books it takes a full clip from the Assault Rifle just to kill an unshielded brute minor.
Besides if the wraith get close enough to try to feed on the brutes I think they’ll end up like this.
ui14.gamefaqs.com/2029/gfs_63166_2_7.jpg
(btw thnanks Admin for posting my matches.)
Well, we know that brutes can still kill you after you kill them. It takes their bodies time to relize they’re dead. An example is in the book grasslands a spartan puts a knife in the skull of a brute and shoots it twice and the brute keeps on fighting, it takes time for the brute to know that it’s dead.
Onto weapons, a bruteshot will make insta wraith pulp when ever it hits a wraith. That is a damn given fact, if a wraith gets hit by a bruteshot it will die. Their other weapons including the mauler will take two or more shots to kill…..maybe one if the brute is close enough. The plasma rifle will still be effective but knowing the brutes they will charge.
Shielding, well, are we going by game canon shielding or book canon shielding? Because in contact harvest 30 militia with assaultrifles unloading a clip into a normal brute just barely dropped its shields. While the larger chieften wasn’t even phased by the assaultrifle ammunition.
And to end this now phantoms can infact cloak, if you’ve played halo 3 then you know that they can cloak
@Fire
Those are just separatists that cloaked in Halo 3, but thats irrelevant since we’re assuming their already onboard and darts are too busy fighting seraphs. And we still don’t have any calcs on the wraith stunner, or what effect it has on energy shields.
Lets be honest here guys, the only reason SGA ever survive Hive ships is because Rodney pulls some Deus Ex Machina to fuck with the ship’s systems. They also have a psychic at near Wraith Queen level that can tap into the Hive mind.
Brutes don’t have that… finesse.
The squad will kill about a hundred Wraith and then over fed super charged wraith will start to pick them off and psych them out.
What are the Brutes’ intentions anyway? Blow up the ship?
If that’s the case just bring a satellite busting bomb with them and detonate right in the dart bay.
If it can kill a Super MAC station, it can hurt a 3km long ship.
Wraith stunners rely on sensory overload rather than direct nerve paralysis. Or so I under stand. It’s entirely possible that covenant shields wouldn’t be able to completely defend against such an attack.
It is also unlikely that wraith stunners would knock out covenant shields seeing as they’re non-lethal weapons to begin with.
Overall, the one think brutes can’t account for is the psychic abilities of the wraith. Eventually, the brutes are going to get swarmed and mind controlled. They just don’t have the numbers.
@hare
Read the description for gods sake. Their objective is to get to the control room, kill the Queen, and protect the Engineer while he hacks the wraith ship, upon gaining control of the ship they vent all rooms besides the one their in and the ship is theirs. Now, whether the Engineer can hack the wraith computer or not is up to debate.
“Eventually, the brutes are going to get swarmed and mind controlled.”
The thing that I feel is just not right is the Wraith casually mind raping the brutes. There’s an episode where a wraith device does this, but that was never seen again and no wraith were in that episode, it was just assumed to be some ancient wraith prototype. Also, if they can just use psychic powers to control people, why did they have to feed on/torture Ronon to control him and several others?
This might be a first time where a scenario has -really- sparked my interest despite my knowing very, very little about both participants. This will be fun to watch unfold.
Come to think of it, how do you expect a brute engineer to hack a wraith hiveship? These guys use sentient computer viruses ffs. Besides, don’t they require wraith telepathy to pilot?
I don’t think it’s a Brute engineer, rather a Covenant engineer; one of those pink floaty things. They are biological supercomputers designed by the forerunners so I’m pretty sure it’s not a problem.
media.giantbomb.com/uploads/2/23457/1890244-reach_14677035_full.jpg
I should have specified that they are Huragoks. The “biological supercomputers that were created by the Forerunners.” Didn’t Shepard fly a dart before? If so then maybe theres a way to get around the telepathy requirement, I’m sure if anyone can figure it out it would be these guys.
Well Michael as a hybrid had no Wraith telepathy and he piloted a Cruiser with no problems.
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And I’m pretty sure the telepathic abilities are only needed to use the standard controls, if they can be bypassed (which I believe McKay did on at least one occasion) then the telepathy isn’t really an issue.
How do Wraiths do with decapitation/dismemberment? Since brutes are partial to bladed weapons and all that jazz.
Much the same as humans, though they probably will carry on fighting with a missing limb for at least a while.
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From what I can remember about Wraith stunners they mess with the brain to cause sensory and motor nervous system overload so they will probably need to actually penetrate the Brute shields first.
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I’m going to try and find an energy output figure for them.
well that’s the first point in the brute’s favor.
Would a Brute shields even notice a stunner? The weapon puts out minimal energy by comparison and isn’t really meant to be used on hard targets anyway.
Well that was an exercise in near futility.
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A taser, as best I can work out, firing for 5 seconds uses 750J of electrical energy to put a man down. But when those 5s are up that person will be up in 10s or so.
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I believe that the Wraith stunners tend to put people out for a 3 hours or so, which makes them 1080 times stronger, in term’s of putting people down, than a taser. I don’t know if you can just say that that makes Wraith stunners 1080 times stronger but if you can then that means that the Wraith stunners will have an output of around 810KJ, that will obviously vary between pistols and rifles though.
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But that is pretty rough work and I’m not sure how long it will stand up for but there we go.
Another disadvantage for the Wraith is the Hive ship itself. It wasn’t made to repel boarders, the ship is huge, and most of the wraith are asleep, the guards patrolling are far apart and theres only a few hundred max. And the hallways are narrow, their number advantage isn’t that great when they have to go in single file lines to the slaughter.
(I’ll try to find a pic of the hallways, not having much luck right now.)
@Reaper
3 HOURS?!?! Most people get up in minutes after being stunned, hell, some people like Shepard barely pass out from just 1 stun shot. It seems that the more you get stunned, the less effective it becomes.
BTW, I think you got the 3 hours from Ronons Particle Magnum, but that pistol is way more powerful then a Wraith stunner.
Hmm, I thought it was about that long.
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Given that Sheppards team was stunned on many occasions and on most of those ocasions the Wraith or whoever was doing the stunning had time move and secure them over quite large distances suggest that the effect lasts far longer than a few minutes.
Also I do believe that on one of the Atlantis episodes. Ronan and McKay were stunned on a Wraith ship whilst they had a mission to accomplish in a specific time period so finding that episode, or one like it, should answer the question of how powerful they are. -
I’m confident of the 750J for 10s stun with a taser so whatever the time scale for the Wraith stunner is it will be fairly easy to do the calcs later.
That was in the early seasons, but we also have ones where the stun really doesn’t last that long. And if it really is 810kj, wouldnt that burn the person getting stunned? If I recall correctly, no one ever gets burned by wraith stunners, no matter how many times they get shot.
No the 810KJ doesn’t necessarily mean that it would burn. Joules can be any sort of energy, even if it is a sci-fi stunning energy, and this energy seems to directly effect the brain and nervous systems rather than burning or hitting or whatever.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kcovlcA08U&feature=related
Finally found a good video showing wraith in action.
This video will show…
1. Wraith shrugging off multiple 9mm rounds
2. Wraith running (a lot)
3. Wraith stunners
4. Wraith back handing the shit out of people.
5. How to ineffectively fight off wraith back to back with Ronon.
6. And of course, Wraith having “dinner” with humans.
(I hope this gives those who had no idea what Wraith are, an idea what wraith are now)
Reading you description of the video then watching it made me laugh.
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I would like to point out that the few people seen engaging in hand to hand fighting (namely Teyla, Ronan, Teal’c and the blond Doc that McKay gets with in the end whose name eludes me). With the exception of the Doc who frankly fails at fighting them, the other three are all some of the best hand to hand fighters in the SG universe and Ronan and Teal’c are quite a bit stronger than most humans.
Forgot how easily they can backhand people into the air…
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Also fun seeing a heavily trained “peak human” martial artist main character dual wielding bo-sticks and going all out on an average wraith after emptying a fully loaded pistol into it’s chest and getting curbstomped without getting a single blow past it’s hands…
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Tough SoB’s.
Teyla isn’t quite on Teal’c or Ronan’s level but still she could probably take on most humans or Jaffa from SG with ease.
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Maybe if they gang up (6 or 7) on one Brute they might be able to take them in hand to hand.
The duration of the Wraith stun, and therefore it’s strength, appears to be very subjective with the exact duration depending on the person in question. As you mentioned SgCombine, Sheppard does seem to have a limited resistance to it’s effect, as does Ronan. This appears to have been done to indicate characters of above average durability, the ‘badass’ characters from the show if you like, and probably doesn’t give a true reading of the weapons strength.
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A good example of this is in SG-A S1E05 Suspicions, a head shot to McKay put him out for hours (he woke in the medical bay unable to move and had been dressed in patient robes, indicating a relatively long stay) whereas Sheppard shot in the shoulder was up and about far sooner (all team members from the same mission had removed and stored their off world gear and presumably done any standard medical checks and whatnot but were still in the middle of arguing a return rescue mission).
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Not quite ready to put a final figure on the stunner energy output but I’m definitely leaning more towards and hour or two rather than just a few minutes.
@Reaper
Not if that brute is swinging its Tungsten carbide bayonet from his brute shot or spiker. Despite the wraiths endurance to blunt trauma, we see Ronon easily cut down a few with his swords. Then again, we’re not even using any of the Wraith feats from the books, unfortunately I don’t have any SG books so I can’t help there.
Don’t forget wraith also possess stun rifles, which presumably possess greater power, and the stun bomb they used to knock out the personnel of the SGC (set it off somewhere near the boarding party and close in for the kill).
Neither do I, have any books that is.
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They don’t have spikers, well according to your battle scenario they don’t. And the brute shot blade isn’t nearly as useful as a blade just due to it’s positioning.
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Maulers will be somewhat useful but given the Wraith ability to shrug of bullet wounds it will take several shots from a Mauler to take them down, baring point blank ranges.
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But I agree, Wraith arms and body parts will be sent flying in the process but I think it is possible for them to overpower a Brute if needs be.
How many Brutes are there?
Now when will they hurry up to bring in Kroot vs Brutes in even-numbered group fights?
10 Brutes (1 Chieftain, 4 Body Guards and 5 Stalkers, weapons and equipment are in the battle description).
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Against a Hive Ship capable of holding tens of thousands of Wraith. Most of them soldier/worker wraith.
They don’t have no fight through all of them of course, just get to the bridge, kill queen, and let the Huragok do the rest. Reason I put stalkers in is because the wraith soldiers cant even sense people who hide in bushes, so I figured the cloak should work fine.
It’s never shown what exactly those mask’s allow them to see, the whole not seeing them in a bush thing smells of PIS.
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In the Sateda (S3E04) the wraith hunters have access to goggle’s which has either thermal or night vision.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVmi7EXnDwA
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3:23 is the bit I’m talking about, though the clip doesn’t actually show him placing the goggles on his eyes.
This has a good image of the hunter in question wearing said goggles.
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stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Wraith_combat_goggles
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But as the page indicates all the goggles show is that the Wraith have the capability to make such things not that they are common place things.
Sure the Brutes only have to get to the bridge. But where the hell is it? They’ll have to trudge through a 5.5 kilometer ship and over several dozen decks to find the bridge. Then they have to kill the queen. When that happens, all 10,000 Wraith will wake up. It’s doubtful the Engineer can decipher the Wraith systems before 10,000 Wraith bear down on them. It’s an alien, biological system completely foreign to anything its seen before.
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The Wraith have stun bombs which are powerful enough to knock out the whole of Cheyenne Mt. Complex and explosive grenades.
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The amount of time the stunners put you down for is situational. Sometimes it is many hours, sometimes it doesn’t at all – it all depends on what the producers need for the plot. And it was also mentioned that Marines have trained on them to fight the effects. Brutes will have no such advantage.
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If someone can help me, that’d be great – I won’t be in front of a computer for a few days (only my phone). I think somewhere it was mentioned the Wraith have “conventional” weapons from back when they fought the Ancients and the Replicators.
@Eric Gigliotti
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Good points on navigation and on the consequences of killing the Queen.
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It might be worth pointing out that unless SgCombine feels otherwise then the Hive Ship is already at full strength at the beginning of the fight, meaning all 10,000 Wraith on board are awake and ready to fight. The match type may suggest that they wont be awake but some clarification would be good I think?
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No, I don’t think the Wraith have ever used lethal, projectile or energy, weaponry for individual warriors. The very deadly energy weapons on their Darts, Cruisers and Hive Ships are what would have defeated the Ancients, with the numerical advantage of course.
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You mentioned the Replicators, I assume you mean the Asurans, which were human form replicators and immune to energy weapons (they never fought the block/bug replicators). They were defeated the first time, by the Wraith, by reprogramming them to make them non-aggressive, not through strength of arms.
@Eric
Huragoks are experts at deciphering, their bio super computers themselves, they have no trouble with alien technology.
“And it was also mentioned that Marines have trained on them to fight the effects”
I’ve never heard of the Marines training to resist stun blasts, in any case it doesn’t seem to help them much.
“the Wraith have “conventional” weapons from back when they fought the Ancients and the Replicators.”
Never heard of that either. I thought the wraith always used stun weapons so they could capture humans and then steal their blood, I don’t see why they would kill them with conventional weapons when they needed them for feeding.
Note – “No, I don’t think the Wraith have ever used lethal, projectile or energy, weaponry for individual warriors.”
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Should clarify this. They may have many, many thousands of years ago. But not since well before the war with the Ancients.
Wraith stunners do have blades on the end of them, and I’m pretty sure Wraith have enough strength to stab Brutes to death with them.
@itcheyness
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Maybe if the shields were down. But their lies the problem were not sure how powerful Wraith stunners are in terms of there ability to a) break down the Brute shields and b) stun the Brutes themselves.
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Though as you say if they can get through the shields then they can just mob rush the Brutes and stab them to death or feed on them.
“Well from what I saw the wraith usually don’t use their psyhic powers too often”
They use them all the damn time. It is explicitly said that this is how they hunt and fight. It is also explicitly said that once you’ve been informed they are illusions and trained to ignore them, then you, well, ignore them. In fact, we have seen several episodes where people who have not yet encountered or been trained against the Wraith (such as in the episode ‘Vegas’, where Todd is able to get into an alternate-universe Sheppard’s (who has never encountered a Wraith before) head despite being starved to the brink of delusion).
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“I’ve never heard of the Marines training to resist stun blasts, in any case it doesn’t seem to help them much.”
It pops up every now and then. They do mention the Marines thing, although I can’t remember the episode. At one point McKay also says that having been shot so many times with Stunners has given him (and the rest of the SGA team) a built-up tolerance or resistance to them.
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Also, I imagine it is entirely possible that the Wraith could/would kill the Engineer, basically mission-failing the Brutes right there.
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” I thought the wraith always used stun weapons so they could capture humans and then steal their blood”
They eat life force, actually, not blood.
@Zazax
life force = blood? Or are they actually soul drinkers?
“the Wraith could/would kill the Engineer”
Not with those stunners, they would have to actually kill it with their hands/bayonet, which they can’t do until they get past the Brutes.
The only thing I think that really poses a threat that the brutes can’t overcome is the mind rape.
“life force = blood? Or are they actually soul drinkers?”
Not so much soul as ‘life energy’. They don’t go into a lot of detail about it, but what we do know if that it is definitely a transfer of energy, not blood.
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“Not with those stunners, they would have to actually kill it with their hands/bayonet, which they can’t do until they get past the Brutes.
The only thing I think that really poses a threat that the brutes can’t overcome is the mind rape.”
Someone is seriously overestimating the Brutes. Even if the Wraith were just disposable mooks in comparison (they’re not), 10 against 10,000 minimum is not good odds. The Brutes will get tired eventually. They’ll run out of ammo and grenades (hell, they only have 18 grenades total). The cloaked ones do not have shields, so there’s half of them gone right there. Even in melee the Wraith have the advantage; while individually not as strong as Brutes, they are definitely far above peak human and so groups of 3 or 4 should be able to handle a Brute, especially since a Wraith touching a Brute basically instantly takes that Brute out of the fight. And remember the Brtes are outnumbered 1000-1 at least.
As for only mind rape posing a threat, the Wraith do in fact have some lethal weapons still poking around. For example, the Wraith have a sort of grenade that actually explodes (seen in ‘The Defiant One’ and ‘The Siege, Part 3′) and is powerful enough to damage structures. That would seriously mess up a Brute.
And again, the mind rape bit. This cannot be stressed enough.
@Zazax
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The Wraith will need to take of the shield and rip off the Brute armour to be able to feed.
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@SgCombine
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I’ve been looking at the episodes, been skim watching based on what I remember about the key episodes, where people are stunned and most of the time when you actually get a hint of time passing, other than them waking up in a cell, it suggests that for individual’s who don’t have the random CIS resistance to them (even then in later episodes the length of time they are out for doesn’t vary much, the resistance just means that they tend to need to get shot more than once to achieve the same effect) are out for around 1.5 – 2 hours.
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Taking the lower time frame (1.5 hours) puts the energy output at 405KJ per shot, there seems to be no difference between pistol and rifles in effect only in effective range and accuracy. The high value, per shot, isn’t really that surprising given the amount of power generally thrown about in the SG universe.
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Now, to work out how powerful Brute shields are, yay. Actually it’s not that difficult. On the MC vs Alcatraz thread, page 5, I worked out a new figure for the Chief’s shields based on the 50mm impacts, go have a look if you want I posted my full calculations. Anyway back before the humans really had had a chance to improve on the Covenant shield technology the MJOLNIR Mk V had 13.36MJ shields and even these were stated to be somewhat better than Covenant shields. So Brute shields are probably around 10MJ, and less on the cloak individuals if game mechanics tell us anything.
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405KJ per shot will deplete their shields in 24 shots, with low end figures for Wraith stunner output. There is no shortage of fire-power given the 10,000 Wraith around and the Brutes will likely at some point get surrounded. Not mention that the Wraith can just use one of those massive stun bombs or that glowing stun rod thing that Todd used to knock out the entirety of the crew in a 304 class Tau’ri warship that apparently doesn’t effect Wraith.
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Even if the stun bomb/glowing sticks of doom aren’t involved big and tough as Brutes are accumulative stun blasts will take them out and leave them effectively dead.
ok I concede, looks like Brutes definitely lose this one. Funny how I was a bit worried the Brutes had too many advantages, although at first I had only though there were only a few hundred wraith on a hive ship, and I didn’t give the psychic thing much thought since it seemed downplayed in the show. I think I’ll make another Infiltration match, maybe this one with Goa uld Ha’tak vs a team of assassins lead by Ezio Auditore, what do you guys think of that one?
“Goa uld Ha’tak vs a team of assassins lead by Ezio Auditore”
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1. Do Goa uld incase every part of there body in armor?
2. Are they aware at first the assassin are on board?
3. Are they already on board?
4. Do the GUs have a way of detecting everyone on board and separating friend from foe?
5. Does Ezio possess a Piece of Eden?
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If the answers go yes, yes, no, yes, no then I think it might be a stomp for the goa uld.
“what do you guys think of that one?”
This would depend largely on the stipulations, I think. The Assassin’s only hope is if they are able to avoid all confrontation with anything more than small patrols of Jaffa. A Staff Weapon should be able to kill an Assassin with a single good hit, and Jaffa armour is tough enough to reflect bullets (in-show they switch to armour-piercing rounds to get through, but the Assassin’s do not have this luxury). Here’s a pic of standard Jaffa armour:
images.wikia.com/stargate/images/0/01/Normal_sg1_914_2114.jpg
There’s also the special ‘Guard’ Jaffa, which have helmets:
images.wikia.com/stargate/images/3/37/Children_of_the_gods.png (Note, the gold one is actually Apophis)
images.wikia.com/stargate/images/3/3c/Horus_Guard_Poster.jpg
stargate.wikia.com/wiki/File:Jackal_guard.JPG
And so on.
Jaffa also have Zats and Stun Grenades, and most are quite well-trained in melee combat with their Staff Weapons (and some have knives as well), and all Jaffa are above peak human in strength and endurance. The Assassins will probably not want to get into a fight with any Jaffa if they can avoid it.
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Is there a Goa’uld present on the ship (as a sort of equivalent to the Queen in this match)? If so, I don’t think there’s any way the Assassins could deal with him/her, entirely due to the Hand Device. Personal shields, blasts of force powerful enough to bodily lift humans and smack them against walls hard enough to knock them out, that weird wavy beam of light thing, etc are not things the Assassins will want to screw with. Those, coupled with the Goa’uld’s enhanced strength, endurance, and regenerative capabilities make for a potent combbination.
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Wow, that diversion was longer than I thought it would be. Sorry for the off-topic-ness.
It goes no (yes for hand device goa uld, shielding), maybe, maybe, yes (recent goa uld), maybe.
My guess, Ezio gets lost and just spends a few hours swan diving into hay stacks in the engineering section.
Another win for Stargate. Admin should give the FP Award to Goa’uld Mothership vs Covenant Cruiser (Mothership), and it looks like the Stargate vs Warhammer thread is wrapping up too.
Isn’t this one more of a stomp then a win? Brutes can’t get past the wraith mind rape.
Probably should’ve been a more stealth-orientated spec ops force. Like Sanghelli.
” Probably should’ve been a more stealth-orientated spec ops force. Like Sanghelli.”
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With some proper canon on spec ops Elites, that could be a match. The term “spec ops” ≠ Navy SEALs.
“Probably should’ve been a more stealth-orientated spec ops force.”
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Predators? Ghost? Batman’s posse of badass normals?
A squad of ghosts from Ghost Recon?
“A squad of ghosts from Ghost Recon?”
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I Think I was thinking of Starcraft Ghosts at the time. Don’t really know much on them just throwing out stealth oriented forces….
As or the infiltration Match ideas:
Aliens, a team of xenomorphs
“A squad of ghosts from Ghost Recon?”
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I Think I was thinking of Starcraft Ghosts at the time. Don’t really know much on them just throwing out stealth oriented forces….
Camp Half-Blood or the rest of the Forces Of Olympus need to send out a task force to inflitrate an enemy base, next!
Let the leader in question be either a Hekatean creation or an Athenian ‘Brain-baby’, please?
@CIDE
I kinda wanted to use Sangheili at first, but I already used them in my last match, so I didn’t put them in this one, I don’t like overusing the same race of aliens.
I’m not sure if it is game mechanics or not, but doesn’t the Engineer have the ability to give it’s teammates a brand new overshield like every 5 seconds? So if an overshield is only twice as strong as the standard brute shield, that means the Wraith would have to put 72 rounds into the standard Brutes, 48 into the cloaked, and a very large amount into the Chieftain, then stun them which may take about two shots based on their size. They also have to do this before the Engineer flashes another overshield, making them do it all over again.
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Now we beg the question, can their stuns even effect shields? They are specifically designed to hit your nervous system, and do no further damage, hitting a “solid” surface like an energy shield would be practically useless.
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Now even if they get their 10,000, it was already mentioned that the corridors on a Wraith ship would give the Wraith’s numerical advantage very little weight, only problem being a lack of ammunition for them all. But, with an overshield recharging every 5 seconds, the Brutes could quite literally just beat the crap out of the Wraith as they walk around unable to touch the monsters. The Chieftain’s hammer is also unlimited while he uses it correct? Meaning they have an unlimited AoE weapon with which to crack skulls.
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This is all assuming that the Engineer giving shields is canon, but they do give shields to the Rookie, Buck, etc. in ODST don’t they?
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If the mind abilities can only make the Brutes see copies then I would imagine they would understand eventually that they are only mirages, if not, they could still “kill” them with a good head twist or brute force pummeling. and continue on.
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Does killing make the Brutes go into a berserk mode? or only when they are damaged? Because if the Brutes plow through the ship killing thousands of Wraith, they are certainly going to be high on war.
“Does killing make the Brutes go into a berserk mode?”
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Normally only if you make them mad or if they are unexperienced. But they do put a lot of rage into combat.
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Let’s not forget that Brutes are not only very strong, but they are also very FAST. There movement speed(Not reaction speed) is equal to a S-II wearing MJOLNIR Mark V.
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A much better thing from Halo would either be an Elite Spec. Ops. team or a squad of S-IIs or S-III Headhunters.
@tmwta
I figured Spartans would be overkill for the Wraith because of their training, discipline, and resourcefulness.
Spartans would equally stand little chance. With a fully awake hive that knows were you are, even if you prove too difficult to swarm under the hive itself can just dynamically alter itself and trap you. We’ve seen that happen.
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Or the wraith could just pile on and physically restrain them.
Spartans are too fast for the wraith to effectively pile on I think, but your right about the ship trapping them. I’m actually surprised at how hard it actually is to capture a Wraith ship when PIS and CIS isn’t involved. That gave me an idea though, what if we have matches on which sci fi ship is more difficult to capture, for example Wraith Hiveship vs Collector ship?
Out of all the groups mentioned I think the SC Ghosts would have stood the best chances. They have psionics of their own and are well accustomed to dealing with mental assaults from others. Meanwhile they can read minds far easier than any Wraith could AND it’s easier to read the mind of a fellow psionic (in SC universe).
Meanwhile they have decent cloaks to help them out and their weapons would one 1-2 shot any but the super Wraiths.
Theoretically they would never need to fire a shot though.
Also, the answer to dealing with the Wraith computer and ship? Throw a Mutate in the team. Or they could very easily just infect the ship with the Zerg virus from the inside and leave. Sit back and watch the fireworks.
That’s assuming the Zerg virus could actually out do the ship. The wraith have immune systems second to nothing and I’d assume their ships do too.
” That gave me an idea though, what if we have matches on which sci fi ship is more difficult to capture, for example Wraith Hiveship vs Collector ship?”
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We have a matchtype. It’s called Siege – SGC vs Castle Base was the first of the type.
@Cide
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The Wraith psychic stuff, mind rape stuff, seems to work better against other psychic’s too.
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In Rising Pt 2 a Queen makes Sheppard, or is it that Colonel, either way she makes him kneel and does so pretty easily. Whereas in The Seige Pt 1 a captured male Wraith takes over Teyla without much effort, she has mild Wraith psychic abilities due to her being part Wraith, and in Submersion and in the The Gift two Queen’s do so much more easily.
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Another thing going against the SC Ghosts is that the Wraith would more than likely be able to detect their presence simply due to that fact that they have psychic abilities.
Also Wraith psychic abilities increase massively in scale with numbers. A group of 10 or 12 Wraith can pool their mental resources and signal ships in FTL several light years away, for instance.