ODST Vs Sangheili Spec Ops Vs US Marines Vs COG

ODST Vs Sangheili Spec Ops Vs US Marines Vs COG

Suggested by SgCombine

Location: Flood infested wastelands

Objective: Rescue an agent whose hiding in a bunker, the four teams will have to battle through hordes of Flood and each other to find the agent and then escape. The agent will go with the first team that finds him. There is no extra ammo or weapons lying around, and there are all types of flood, including trasher forms.

ODST: 6 troopers, armed with BR55HB SR, MA37, M90 shotguns, 1 M41 Rocket Launcher and 1 SRS99C-S2 AM Sniper, Standard Ammo.

Sangheili: 6 Spec Ops armed with Plasma Repeaters, Needle Rifles, A Beam Rifle and 1 Fuel Rod, Standard Ammo.

US Marines: 6 Marines, M4 Carbines, FN SCAR H, Benelli M4 Super 90, 1 M40 Sniper Rifle, and 1 AT4 Rocket Launcher, Standard Ammo.

COG: 6 COGS, Mk 2 Lancer, Gnasher Shotgun, 1 Boomshot, 1 longshot sniper rifle, Standard Ammo.

Who would win and how?

Related Posts:

SHARE THIS POST

  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Myspace
  • Google Buzz
  • Reddit
  • Stumnleupon
  • Delicious
  • Digg
  • Technorati
Author: admin View all posts by
Read before commenting! We welcome constructive comments and allow any that meet our common sense criteria. This means being respectful and polite to others. It means providing helpful information that contributes to a story or discussion. It means leaving links only that substantially add further to a discussion.

Comments being disrespectful to others or otherwise violating what we believe are common sense standards of discussion can lead to the banhammer getting used. You can read more about our comments policy here.

188 Comments on "ODST Vs Sangheili Spec Ops Vs US Marines Vs COG"

  1. Cananatra November 9, 2011 at 2:20 pm -      #101

    The weapons feats contradict that 5Kj number, so either the laws of physics differ in the Halo universe enough that 5Kj is enough to do what is shown or the 5Kj number is incorrect.

  2. Soldier's Shadow November 9, 2011 at 2:26 pm -      #102

    “So now you’re taking ONE gun and deciding that ALL covenant guns are crap. Brilliant…absolutely brilliant….”

    ====

    No, it’s just a cornerstone of the many, many crappy weapons within Halo’s arsenal that suffers from Bungie’s idiocy.

  3. sgtnacho November 9, 2011 at 2:32 pm -      #103

    I agree with Cananatra, the “Weapon feats” Bungie provides are crap at best and completely wrong at their worst.
    When every instance in the canon shows one thing, Bungie being idiots as far as science goes and putting the opposite? We should probably go with the science and physics, over Bungie.

  4. ZomBailout November 9, 2011 at 2:45 pm -      #104

    “When every instance in the canon shows one thing, Bungie being idiots as far as science goes and putting the opposite? We should probably go with the science and physics, over Bungie.”
    -
    It’s their canon… well 343′s now… we don’t say that since Marvel lists someone as peak human and they do something inhuman that they’re not Peak Human… Halo could just as likely be in a universe with video game physics.

  5. sgtnacho November 9, 2011 at 2:53 pm -      #105

    Or Bungie could’ve done some serious screw ups when they were coming up with fictional numbers, that sounds much more likely than their entire universe’s physics are cartoon.
    -
    But in Marvels case, their peak human, is much stronger than real peak human. They say it’s peak human, and we agree to call them peak human, but their feats still count. Bungie says 5kJ, Marvel says peak human. Bungie shows much more power, Marvel shows above peak human abilities. We use Bungie’s 5 kJ factor, Marvel gets to keep their insane abilities. Flaws are obvious

  6. Cananatra November 9, 2011 at 2:55 pm -      #106

    Not exactly what i meant sgtnacho.
    -
    I meant that when every feat in canon we have is above 5Kj, and the only mention of 5Kj is a tech manual of sorts, then the manual is wrong.

  7. SgCombine November 9, 2011 at 3:03 pm -      #107

    It never said 5 Kj, someone (probably LW) saw the numbers on Halopedia for the Plasma Rifle say 100-150 KV @ 2~3 dA. Heres something interesting
    “One kilojoule per second (1000 watts) is approximately the amount of solar radiation received by one square metre of the Earth in full daylight.”
    Unless the UNSC marines are all Vampires, the Covy Plasma Rifle probably shouldn’t even be able to give them a sun tan, much less kill anyone.

  8. Commander Cross November 9, 2011 at 6:16 pm -      #108

    So are we using Force Recon Marines for this fight, you guys and ghouls?

  9. Michael50210 November 9, 2011 at 7:34 pm -      #109

    *sees Nero*
    *breaks out a Thunderhammer*
    Tread carefully.

  10. CIDE November 9, 2011 at 8:32 pm -      #110

    “As for Terran marines, they might actually run into some difficulties. It’s been established that sniper bullets just go straight through them without doing anything due to overpenetration. Gauss rifles are nothing if not an exercise in overpenetration. I forgot if standard pistols were the Reaper’s gauss pistols or needle pistols, but one isn’t much better about overpenetration than the gauss rifle and the other is actually worse about it. A Marauder or two would solve those problems though. Honestly they’d still beat the shit out of everything because their guns don’t have any problems killing the other 4 teams and the flood can’t realistically do anything to hurt them.”
    -
    You forgot the absolute best resort here: Firebats. Also, Reapers aren’t needle pistols; they fire explosive ammo. They’d be AWESOME in this case because of mobility as well as firepower.
    -
    The needle pistol in question is just a common side arm known to penetrate armor.
    -
    “The Covenant plasma rifle has an output of 5kJ per shot. That’s not terribly impressive (3 times the energy output of a basic M-16 round). It also has crappy penetration and a maximum effective range of 50 meters.
    -
    It’s also bulky, unwieldy, has no sights and can’t be reloaded on the field (though the last is admittedly that is offset by it’s 400 shot power supply).
    -
    It’s an incredibly crappy weapon.”
    -
    Normally by factpile standards? Yes, it is a very crappy weapon. However, compared to the alternatives here against enemies that generally shrug off kinetic impacts of small arms…? The heat of the plasma is perfect.
    -
    “3rd degree burns are to the base of your hairs. They take out the roots and everything above that point. 4th degree burns take out your hairs, your tendons, your muscles, and keep going straight to the bone. 4th degree burns exist.”
    -
    What he said.
    -

    This means a 5kJ shot can bring 19 grams of bodily fluids to the boiling point…”
    -
    For a comparison in weight a gram is roughly the weight of a medium sized paper clip. Also, was the 5kj TOTAL energy, kinetic energy, or the heat?
    -
    “The weapons feats contradict that 5Kj number, so either the laws of physics differ in the Halo universe enough that 5Kj is enough to do what is shown or the 5Kj number is incorrect.”
    -
    It’s like this for virtually every single covie weapon. Like the spiker? That thing is PATHETIC in its specs; but feats are awesome.
    -
    “Not exactly what i meant sgtnacho.
    -
    I meant that when every feat in canon we have is above 5Kj, and the only mention of 5Kj is a tech manual of sorts, then the manual is wrong.”
    -
    In this case we need to look at what happened first; tech manual or feats? Because what ever happened LATER is the truth regardless of the contradiction; as per Halo’s canon policy.
    -

  11. SgCombine November 9, 2011 at 8:58 pm -      #111

    @CIDE
    I’m pretty sure the stats contradict game and novel canon, since Marine and ODST armor provide good protection from small arms fire, but they do little to stop spikers.
    (Watch this ODST get impaled by 1)
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXl4X6s167U&feature=related
    Its 5 KJ per plasma bolt supposedly. Which also contridicts canon. I think we should use the books to get a more accurate idea of Covy weapon power, because these tech manual stats aren’t lethal to anything but the eye.

  12. EnigmaJ November 9, 2011 at 8:58 pm -      #112

    ““One kilojoule per second (1000 watts) is approximately the amount of solar radiation received by one square metre of the Earth in full daylight.”
    Unless the UNSC marines are all Vampires, the Covy Plasma Rifle probably shouldn’t even be able to give them a sun tan, much less kill anyone.”


    Focus all that energy to a smaller point, however, and you should theoretically be capable of melting an 8.6 x 8.6 x 8.6 mm^3 block of iron.

  13. SgCombine November 9, 2011 at 9:12 pm -      #113

    But UNSC troops wear Titanium armor. Iron melts at 2800 °F, Titanium 3034 °F. Not the same thing, and the armor looks much thicker than 8.6mm.

  14. ZomBailout November 9, 2011 at 9:19 pm -      #114

    “But UNSC troops wear Titanium armor. Iron melts at 2800 °F, Titanium 3034 °F. Not the same thing, and the armor looks much thicker than 8.6mm.”
    -
    No they don’t, they wear some fantasy Titanium…

  15. SgCombine November 9, 2011 at 9:21 pm -      #115

    @ZomB
    And your point being…?

  16. Reaper273 November 10, 2011 at 6:17 am -      #116

    ““One kilojoule per second (1000 watts) is approximately the amount of solar radiation received by one square metre of the Earth in full daylight.”
    -
    Unless the UNSC marines are all Vampires, the Covy Plasma Rifle probably shouldn’t even be able to give them a sun tan, much less kill anyone.”
    -
    Firstly fact fail here.
    -
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight#cite_note-0
    -
    At the top it state sunlight is 120 Watts per square metre. In the actual scientific paper that figure is based on, click the number ’1′ next to the 120 and open the .pdf, you find out that that figure comes from France and that globally they received figures of between 70-280 Watts per square metre, presumably the high end being from the Sahara or some other desert.
    -
    However 1 Watt is 1 Joule per second. So 280 Watts is only 280 Joules per square metre per second. A far cry from the 1000 Joules per square metre.
    -
    A little thought experiment:
    -
    You ever used a magnifying glass to focus the light from a circle with a radius of 3cm?
    -
    I assume you have at some point and that you know that you can set a large number of different materials on fire with sunlight probably with an intensity equal to around 120 Joules per square metre, if you are from Europe, Canada or the US that is.
    -
    If you had a magnifying glass with a radius of 2.384m, that’s 4.768m fully across, focusing the sunlight from the Sahara, the 280 Joules figure, onto a single point then you would match the energy a single plasma bolt, if we go by the figures from the manual that is.
    -
    So yeah that is actually quite a lot of thermal energy per plasma bolt.
    -
    The moral of this story is…. Check you facts before posting!

  17. SgCombine November 10, 2011 at 2:53 pm -      #117

    Um dude, I got that from Wikipedia, same as you.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule#Kilojoule
    go to Kilojoule. Maybe they meant the hottest place on earth in full daylight, idk.

  18. Reaper273 November 10, 2011 at 3:12 pm -      #118

    Sorry mate but having read the source Wikipedia cite’s for the 1000J figure I disagree.
    -
    The figure isn’t wrong it’s just from space. The graphs and such shown are all taken from the intensity of sunlight falling on orbital satellites. Given the lack of attenuating atmossphere the much higher figure is not unexpected.
    -
    Click the superscript ’8′ at the end of the 1000J per square metre claim and it takes you here;
    -
    www.pmodwrc.ch/pmod.php?topic=tsi/composite/SolarConstant
    -
    This is from the description of figure 1, where the 1000 Watt/square metre thing comes from, on that page:
    -
    “Figure 1. Upper panel: Compared are daily averaged values of the Sun’s total irradiance TSI from radiometers on different space platforms since November 1978: HF on Nimbus7, ACRIM I onSMM, ERBE on ERBS, ACRIM II on UARS, VIRGO on SOHO, and ACRIM III on ACRIM-Sat”
    -
    Key bit:
    -
    “from radiometers on different space platforms ”
    -
    1000J per square metre per second on the surface of Earth and there would be no land based life.

  19. SgCombine November 10, 2011 at 3:35 pm -      #119

    I guess your right… still I’m not buying that 5 kj bit. I was looking through my Helljumpers Comic Book and found several scenes where Covenant troops get pwned by this plasma. Heres one example, the bolt from the plasma pistol goes right through that grunt.
    imageshack.us/f/695/51737762.jpg/

  20. Galorian November 10, 2011 at 4:10 pm -      #120

    Maybe grunts are made of foam?
    -
    Besides, I think the pistol outputs more energy per round than the rifle.
    -
    I agree that the official numbers are way too low. Bungie always sucked at physics.
    -
    Just look at the design of the MAC- that thing shoots a 600 ton round at 4% light speed. Even if we ignore for a moment the fact the recoil from such a shot should send the ship flying the other way, the fact remains that it makes absolutely no sense to fire such a heavy projectile in the first place- a 600 kg projectile will pack as much punch, cause far less recoil and travel at near light speed with the same energy investment, making it overall far more effective.

  21. CIDE November 10, 2011 at 4:14 pm -      #121

    “@CIDE
    I’m pretty sure the stats contradict game and novel canon, since Marine and ODST armor provide good protection from small arms fire, but they do little to stop spikers.”

    -
    It depends on what happened first.
    -
    “No they don’t, they wear some fantasy Titanium…”
    -
    And some kind of ceramics.
    -

  22. ZomBailout November 10, 2011 at 4:24 pm -      #122

    “And some kind of ceramics”
    -
    Ahh yes, they don’t even wear the titanium anymore, just some non-specific ceramic armor or so I’ve heard… Probably because Titanium-A gets melted by 5kj

  23. SgCombine November 10, 2011 at 4:41 pm -      #123

    “Maybe grunts are made of foam?”

    Foam based aliens that can survive multiple hits from a pist off human swinging a fire extinguisher?
    Halo: Contact Harvest
    Pg. 49
    “Clang! Something heavy slammed into Dadab’s tank. He yelped with alarm and staggered
    forward. Another blow knocked him to his stomach. Methane hissed from a fracture in his tank.
    “Have mercy!” Dadab shrieked, curling into a ball and covering his face with his spiny
    forearms. He heard a series of guttural exclamations, and felt something kick the back of one of his
    legs. Dadab parted his arms ever so slightly, and peeked through the crack.
    The alien was tall and muscular. Most of its pale flesh was covered by a fitted cloth jumpsuit.
    Teeth bared, and holding a red metal cylinder above its mostly hairless head, the thing looked
    savage—not at all like something that might possess a holy relic.
    The alien lashed out with one of its heavy boots, striking Dadab’s leg a second time. It shouted
    more angry and unintelligible words.”

    “Besides, I think the pistol outputs more energy per round than the rifle.”

    I’m pretty sure thats just gameplay mechanic.

  24. Dr. Rockso November 10, 2011 at 8:37 pm -      #124

    …why would anyone try to compare modern mere human soldiers to all these futuristic forces?
    Odst- vastly superior weaponry, have shields and armor and extremely sophisticated HUD, not to mention they have vastly superior strength, speed, endurance, and senses
    Sangheli- never heard of them but from what ive seen so far they equally crush them
    Cog – could actually be a good fight against the marines, i feel as though the cog would be more experienced and somewhat better armed though
    -
    Really, this fight should be split into cog vs marines and odst vs sangheli

  25. Dr. Rockso November 10, 2011 at 8:51 pm -      #125

    @sgcombine
    Even if the titanium armor doesnt melt, do you really think wearing 2800 degree armor is gunna leave them unscathed?

  26. Gluttonous-Behemoth November 10, 2011 at 9:09 pm -      #126

    Ko sei vulgaris magistralis.

  27. CIDE November 10, 2011 at 9:44 pm -      #127

    “Odst- vastly superior weaponry,”
    -
    Already been discussed; not true.
    -
    “have shields “
    -
    Since when…?
    -
    “not to mention they have vastly superior strength, speed, endurance, and senses”
    -
    You’re thinking of Spartans. ODST’s are normal humans.
    -
    “Sangheli- never heard of them but from what ive seen so far they equally crush them”
    -
    ….And yet you’re talking about ODST’s like you know what they are.
    -
    “Sangheli- never heard of them but from what ive seen so far they equally crush them”
    -
    We already know how ODST’s fair against Elites.
    -

  28. Reaper273 November 11, 2011 at 3:28 am -      #128

    Dunno about the where the 5KJ comes from exactly but on:
    -
    www.bungie.net/projects/halo3/content.aspx?link=h3plasmarifle
    -
    It gives a voltage of “100-150Kv @ 3dA”.
    -
    Kv isn’t actually a unit, though I imagine they meant KV and it’s just a typo. dA just means 0. so 3dA is 0.3A.
    -
    Using the equation Voltage = Energy/Charge
    -
    Energy = Voltage * Charge
    -
    Which gives either:
    -
    Energy = 100000 * 0.3 = 30000 = 30KJ
    -
    Or
    -
    Energy = 150000 * 0.3 = 45000 = 45KJ
    -
    So the plasma rifle has an energy output of 30-45KJ.

  29. Reaper273 November 11, 2011 at 3:44 am -      #129

    For comparison with the plasma pistol using the same calcs and source:
    -
    In regular firing mode the shots are exactly the same, the gun is just less accurate, shorter ranged and has less ammo.
    -
    But when overcharged the voltage jumps up to 1.5MV @ 3dA.
    -
    Which gives 450KJ per overcharged shot aswell as the EMP effect.

  30. Galorian November 11, 2011 at 4:16 am -      #130

    @Reaper273
    That’s the output per second. You forgot to account for the rate of fire- at 540 RPM the rifle fires 9 shots per second, which means each shot has an energy output of 5kJ.

  31. ZomBailout November 11, 2011 at 4:29 am -      #131

    “That’s the output per second. You forgot to account for the rate of fire- at 540 RPM the rifle fires 9 shots per second, which means each shot has an energy output of 5kJ.”
    -
    Tsk tsk tsk… the number of people that have done those exact calculations, and you make a mistake cmon… Rookie move there man…

  32. Dr.Twinky November 11, 2011 at 5:04 am -      #132

    Even if plasma pistols and rifles suck, they are still great vs the flood, and that’s all that really matters right now.

  33. Galorian November 11, 2011 at 5:07 am -      #133

    True. But even if it weren’t so, the fact they’re WAY stronger and faster than any of the others, and are the only ones with active camouflage and shields makes this a stomp anyway…

  34. Reaper273 November 11, 2011 at 5:49 am -      #134

    Point taken.
    -
    But the overcharged plasma pistol shot isn’t affected by shots per minute so at the least that will clock in at 450KJ.
    -
    And the regular pistol bolt will be far closer to the 30-45KJ figure due to the much slower semi-automatic fire rate
    -
    Not to mention that the plasma bolts do have mass so will have kinetic energy as well the the thermal energy previously calculated.

  35. Galorian November 11, 2011 at 5:59 am -      #135

    @Reaper273
    “And the regular pistol bolt will be far closer to the 30-45KJ figure due to the much slower semi-automatic fire rate”
    -
    That’s assuming it has the same power output as the plasma rifle.
    -
    “Not to mention that the plasma bolts do have mass so will have kinetic energy as well the the thermal energy previously calculated.”
    -
    The kinetic energy is included in the 5kJ figure, since the power output of the rifle would be used to propel the plasma as well as heat it.

  36. Galorian November 11, 2011 at 6:07 am -      #136

    Now that I think about it I realize we forgot to account for the power output required to generate the containment field which holds the shot together until it impacts the target (or flies 50 meters), which presumably isn’t negligible, and the fact the process of generating the shot wouldn’t be 100% efficient.
    -
    These numbers are even more pathetic than I originally thought…

  37. Reaper273 November 11, 2011 at 6:43 am -      #137

    “That’s assuming it has the same power output as the plasma rifle.”
    -
    www.bungie.net/projects/halo3/content.aspx?link=h3plasmarifle
    -
    www.bungie.net/projects/halo3/content.aspx?link=h3plasmapistol
    -
    Same energy rating.
    -
    “These numbers are even more pathetic than I originally thought…”
    -
    I would hardly call a 450KJ pistol shot pathetic.
    -
    You are right about the efficiency but as yet I have seen no one take into account, in other debates, the effects of bullet slowdown at various ranges on the KE of the round so I don’t see why we should suddenly take issue with the efficiency of these plasma weapons.

  38. SgCombine November 11, 2011 at 8:19 am -      #138

    @Reaper273
    I remember the pistol in Halo Reach has like 400 shots per battery, but the info on the Halo 3 one only says 200, is that a typo or what?

  39. Galorian November 11, 2011 at 8:48 am -      #139

    @Reaper273
    “You are right about the efficiency but as yet I have seen no one take into account, in other debates, the effects of bullet slowdown at various ranges on the KE of the round so I don’t see why we should suddenly take issue with the efficiency of these plasma weapons.”
    -
    I’m not talking about range attenuation and such, but rather the inefficiency of the process which produces the shot itself. The power output goes into more than heating up the plasma- it has to contain it, run the various sub systems that make up the rest of the rifle (cooling, display, etc…), produce the effect that allows the containment field to last outside the chamber and propel the shot.
    -
    With most weapon calculations that’s not a factor because we study the round itself and its properties rather than the entire firing mechanism that launches it, but the figures we have here are for the power output that the rifle runs on, with little to no actual data about the plasma bolt that it releases.
    -
    Take SC’s C-14 gauss rifle for example- we know it fires depleted uranium spikes at hypersonic speeds and we know the dimensions of said spikes, so we can easily calculate the minimum and maximum KE figures for each spike fired according to the range of speeds covered by the term Hypersonic (roughly 194.2-776.8 kJ in case you were wondering).

  40. Dr. Rockso November 11, 2011 at 9:24 am -      #140

    Ok so soldiers who can punch a steel door off its hinges and then jump a good hundred feet out of it comepletely unharmed are regular humans?(in the beginning of the when the… Whatever the fuck it was, crashes) There has to be some level of enhancement from the suit, an average human, hell, even a peak human, cannot break a steel door designed to survive an orbital drop off its hinges
    “We already know how odsts fair against elites”
    Im not sure what you were implying, did you mean very well? Because in the game you kill plenty of elites, and brutes, and hunters…

  41. Reaper273 November 11, 2011 at 11:22 am -      #141

    @Galorian
    -
    I know you weren’t talking about it, my point was that given that you believe, and probably rightly so, that there isn’t 100% efficiency for the plasma weapon why aren’t you, and other pilers, taking into account how much speed, and hence KE, a round loses depending on how far the bullet has to travel from when it leaves the muzzle.
    -
    I know it may sound petty and I know that in some cases the bullet speed drop prior to impact will be negligible but the efficiency for the plasma weapons could have just as negligible an effect.
    -
    I mean despite the fact that the Covenant doesn’t have a decent grasp of physics they have a energy cell in a pistol that can generate 1,500,000 volts, without a massive bank of transformers to increase the voltage like our power stations use. Who knows what, or if, kind of superconductors they use within the firing and plasma generation mechanisms and the resulting efficiency.
    -
    Going back a few posts you were saying the plasma weapons were pathetic. The range and fire rate of all Bungie’s weapons are rubbish, but that’s for another rant. Even using lowly 5KJ bolt figure from the plasma rifle would cause serious damage to a human with kevlar body armour providing next to no protection.
    -
    2-3 hits from plasma bolts to the abdomen will largely cook your major organs and bear in mind that a) the bolt will penetrate, at least to an extent, into the body and fry anything it touches deeper into the body and b) the heat from the initial bolt isn’t going to disappear instantly it will keep radiating throughout the impact region cooking whatever living tissue is nearby. The result either going to die instantly or you’re going to go into shock and a) be useless in a fight and/or b) die slowly.
    -
    In any case I seriously doubt the ability of something with only 5KJ of thermal energy + kinetic energy to actually be plasma. We know Covie plasma is hot, as opposed to cold plasma, because a) we are told so by the fact it gives burns and b) because we know it gives off beta particle, electrons, when the plasma weapons charge (TFOR: pg 147) and as plasma become hot it becomes more ionised and ionised means it has been striped of it’s electrons hence the beta radiation.
    -
    But given the energy that the plasma rifle can put into each shot, 5KJ, you can work out the temperature of 1 mole of Hydrogen Fluoride, HF, 1 mole of HF is 20.008grams and 5KJ would heat that to around 200C. Which is far too cold to actually be ionising plasma.
    -
    Note – The ionising radiation is talking about ship mounted weapons but the handheld versions can be assumed to be the same because the bolts cause electronic static to appear on the Chiefs HUD on more than one occasion.
    -
    Given the need for the plasma to be very ionised and the damage it canonically, book wise, can do. A likely temperature range is anywhere between 10^3 and 10^4 kelvin (Kelvin is just Celsius plus 273.15) far hotter than the 5KJ would be able to heat HF to.

  42. Galorian November 11, 2011 at 11:27 am -      #142

    I think we can all agree that the 5kJ figure is way too low…

  43. Reaper273 November 11, 2011 at 11:36 am -      #143

    Bungie. Making Star Trek look scientific since 2001.

  44. Dr.Twinky November 11, 2011 at 12:33 pm -      #144

    Dr.Rockso,

    We don’t use gameplay as proof.

  45. CIDE November 11, 2011 at 12:33 pm -      #145

    “Ok so soldiers who can punch a steel door off its hinges and then jump a good hundred feet out of it comepletely unharmed are regular humans?(in the beginning of the when the… Whatever the fuck it was, crashes) There has to be some level of enhancement from the suit, an average human, hell, even a peak human, cannot break a steel door designed to survive an orbital drop off its hinges”
    -
    There were explosive charges ont he door for Halo 3: ODST. They didn’t push them off at all; the pod did all the work. What’s more is the fact that it wasn’t “hundreds of feet’ for the rookie to fall. I will give you the one or two dozen feet however SHOULD have hurt; still it’s a far fetch from super human.
    -
    Their armor is just armor. That’s it. It doesn’t enhance them and the shields were only when provided by an engineer.
    -
    “Im not sure what you were implying, did you mean very well? Because in the game you kill plenty of elites, and brutes, and hunters…
    -
    Gameplay mechanics and PIS, generally. These spec ops guys would TRASH the ODST’s.
    -
    “I know you weren’t talking about it, my point was that given that you believe, and probably rightly so, that there isn’t 100% efficiency for the plasma weapon why aren’t you, and other pilers, taking into account how much speed, and hence KE, a round loses depending on how far the bullet has to travel from when it leaves the muzzle.”
    -
    There’s too many factors that come into play when deciding that for most of these weapons. A planet’s gravity, direction and speed of wind, air density, humidity, altitude, etc. These things generally aren’t included in cut scenes or quotes from books for us to take into account.
    -
    “Even using lowly 5KJ bolt figure from the plasma rifle would cause serious damage to a human with kevlar body armour providing next to no protection.”
    -
    That mostly depends on how much of the 5KJ is kinetic, heat, and containment field.
    -
    “Bungie. Making Star Trek look scientific since 2001.”
    -
    Yes

  46. Dr.Twinky November 11, 2011 at 12:41 pm -      #146

    Do you guys think 343i will do any better with the fiction? Or did they already prove themselves unfit?

  47. SgCombine November 11, 2011 at 1:00 pm -      #147

    They did make the UNSC over-powered in Legends, but thats all we really have to go off of.

  48. Reaper273 November 11, 2011 at 1:08 pm -      #148

    “That mostly depends on how much of the 5KJ is kinetic, heat, and containment field.”
    -
    Considering that we a talking about relatively slow moving gas with negligible mass I imagine that most of that is thermal energy.
    -
    “Do you guys think 343i will do any better with the fiction? Or did they already prove themselves unfit?”
    -
    Dunno yet. I only hope they have a better eye for detail than Bungie. And maybe actually let the UNSC make some widespread use of some of the tech they must have captured in 28 years of war.

  49. Dr. Rockso November 11, 2011 at 2:14 pm -      #149

    @cide
    Im not saying they wouldnt trash them, i know nothing of them, but odst consistently kill large numbers of elites, you cant just call “gameplay mechanic” if odst couldnt beat elites then elites wouldnt be a primary enemy in the game

  50. SgCombine November 11, 2011 at 2:51 pm -      #150

    @Dr.Rockso
    The only ODST’s I remember “consistently” killing Elites was Romeo and Dutch from the Helljumpers comic. But most of that was through assassinations or using a hijacked Phantom, so ODST vs Elite in a straight up firefight, my money is on the Elite.

  51. Reaper273 November 11, 2011 at 3:28 pm -      #151

    “if odst couldnt beat elites then elites wouldnt be a primary enemy in the game”
    -
    In ODST you only see dead Elites, the primary enemy in the game are the Brutes.

  52. Dr.Twinky November 11, 2011 at 3:48 pm -      #152

    Dr.Rockso,
    those are stupid arguments. Try again.

  53. Hitman H94 November 11, 2011 at 4:20 pm -      #153

    “Do you guys think 343i will do any better with the fiction? Or did they already prove themselves unfit?”

    They released a new book Halo: Glasslands or are going to release it, but read that and I guess we will find out.

  54. SgCombine November 11, 2011 at 4:34 pm -      #154

    @Hitman
    Already released a few weeks ago, I could send you a copy if you want, its pretty good, its more like Cryptum then Ghosts of Onyx when it comes to action.

  55. w00tm0ng3r November 11, 2011 at 4:55 pm -      #155

    If there’s anything I’ve learned about energy weapons it’s that they need hundred to thousands of times more energy than a ballistic weapon to get the same effect. For example according to L-W’s calcs on Imperial lasguns, they produce more energy than an M1 Abram’s 120mm cannon firing the latest anti-tank sabots, yet have roughly the effect of a 12.7mm bullet, a round producing 1/1000th the energy. Heat transfer is just inherently less efficient than kinetic energy transfer because punching holes in things generally takes a lot less energy than melting/boiling them. Having said that, I am almost completely certain that a 5kJ energy weapon would not actually be lethal, especially if you have to generate an electromagnetic sheath for each bolt for the duration of their travel. Note that kinetic energy should be minimal: it’s a ball of gas moving at about the speed of an airsoft BB (“should” because in the comics/novels getting hit by plasma knocks people around, so something’s up). This one’s just down to Bungie fucking up.
    -
    On a side note, I’d say the greatest example of gameplay/story segregation weapon side in recent memory comes from Red Faction Guerilla’s railgun. The in game description: it’s SOOOOOOO high velocity it can punch clean through a building and kill someone on the other side! In practice: it’s sooooo “high-velocity” I can side-step it at 50 meters… Though it CAN punch through a building and kill someone on the other side, but it sure as hell isn’t from its velocity… Probably has something to do with the projectile being about a FOOT across. Same thing with the gauss rifle in that game actually. It supposed to be an assault rifle replacement that uses high velocity shells for big damage. It does do big damage but you’re gonna be leading targets 30 feet away…

  56. the_man_with The_Answers November 11, 2011 at 5:05 pm -      #156

    “Objective: Rescue an agent whose hiding in a bunker, the four teams will have to battle through hordes of Flood and each other to find the agent and then escape. The agent will go with the first team that finds him. There is no extra ammo or weapons lying around, and there are all types of flood, including trasher forms.”
    -
    Well, I would love to see 6 COG or 6 Marines fight a Flood horde, including THRASHERS(Which were designed to take out tanks), without any experience beforehand. Easy victems.
    -
    “ODST: 6 troopers, armed with BR55HB SR, MA37, M90 shotguns, 1 M41 Rocket Launcher and 1 SRS99C-S2 AM Sniper, Standard Ammo.”
    -
    Well, the M90 and M41 are their best agaisnt the Flood, and the BR55HB SR and SRS99C-S2 are the best against the rest.
    -
    “Sangheili: 6 Spec Ops armed with Plasma Repeaters, Needle Rifles, A Beam Rifle and 1 Fuel Rod, Standard Ammo.”
    -
    Stronger, faster, and more durable(Even without shields). The only team that won’t be instantly infected by infection forms. Plus plasma is >>>armor piercing rounds vs the Flood. Shields, Training, and Fuel rod ftw.
    -
    “US Marines: 6 Marines, M4 Carbines, FN SCAR H, Benelli M4 Super 90, 1 M40 Sniper Rifle, and 1 AT4 Rocket Launcher, Standard Ammo.”
    -
    What is standard? FMJ or AP? If so, then they lose, as FMJ or AP would do very little to the Flood. They need rounds like Hollow-points.
    -
    “COG: 6 COGS, Mk 2 Lancer, Gnasher Shotgun, 1 Boomshot, 1 longshot sniper rifle, Standard Ammo.”
    -
    I suppose their weapons would do ok, but their armor sucks vs the other teams.
    -
    “Who would win and how?”
    -
    The Elites, simply do to haveing all the advantages:
    1) They are significantly stronger than any other combatant here, besides some Flood.
    2) They are faster not only in speed, but reaction times, giving them the edge in H2H(When coupled with strength)
    3) They have been training essentially from birth, some of which was probably lethal excercises against eachother.
    4) More experience fighting the Flood, as well as just over all experience.
    5) Weapons that work perfectly against the Flood
    6) Energy shields allow them to take as much damage as an entire squad, on an individual level. It also prevents Flood infection.
    -
    -
    To see the Flood without the hinderence of game models and mechanics: www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJqQQshLAGU&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL3BCC62243C36B10E
    -
    Watch 1-11, and I’ll bet by the end you will be rooting for Henry.(BTW, it shows how good even unarmored, literally naked, elites are fighting the Flood)

  57. the_man_with The_Answers November 11, 2011 at 5:18 pm -      #157

    Oh, BTW, here is Elite Spec Ops:

  58. Dr. Rockso November 11, 2011 at 5:19 pm -      #158

    @w00t
    Thats just a fuck up on the part of the makers of red faction, in an actual railgun the entire point of it is that it fires vastly faster moving rounds than a traditional gun

  59. Dr. Rockso November 11, 2011 at 5:31 pm -      #159

    @the man
    I feel like the cog probably have at least somewhat better armor than modern day us marines

  60. Dr. Rockso November 11, 2011 at 5:39 pm -      #160

    Also, if someone woulda just told me sangheili meant elites from the beginning rather than getting all pissy and trying to insult my intelligence it would have forgone a lot of confusion

  61. Hitman H94 November 11, 2011 at 5:46 pm -      #161

    @SgtCombine

    I have only read the Fall of Reach yet, maybe once I have time to read the others, I am sure I can find it online.

  62. SgCombine November 11, 2011 at 5:51 pm -      #162

    We didn’t realize you were blind, I guess that awesome pic I selected myself was a waste.

  63. SgCombine November 11, 2011 at 5:53 pm -      #163

    My last comment was to Rockso

    @Hitman
    It would be easier if I sent you a pdf file of it, but its your choice.
    (its SgCombine btw, but i can see why alot of people mistake it as Sgt)

  64. Dr. Rockso November 11, 2011 at 5:59 pm -      #164

    @sg
    Sorry, im on my phone the pictures are all pretty low res for me, now that i zoom in really close i can kinda make out the vagina mouth

  65. Hitman H94 November 11, 2011 at 6:01 pm -      #165

    @SgCombine

    Yeh I figured when you said you would send it to me, didn’t think you would go withthe hassle of mailing it to me :P

    But I will read the other books first, sure I will find a pdf version of them.

  66. the_man_with The_Answers November 11, 2011 at 6:03 pm -      #166

    “I feel like the cog probably have at least somewhat better armor than modern day us marines”
    -
    I was thinking the Delta “armor”, but if it is like that dude in the picture, than I can see them doing OK, but lacking Spec Ops traineing and Flood Experience it doesn’t really help.

  67. Hitman H94 November 11, 2011 at 6:16 pm -      #167

    But the COGs do have the gnasher which I reckon would be pretty damn useful against the flood. The longshot will take care of the marines and ODSTs not sure about the Elites and their shields though but I am guessing the Boomshot can take care of them.

  68. Dr. Rockso November 11, 2011 at 6:18 pm -      #168

    @the man
    The lambent are pretty flood esk, but regardless, this is a roflstomp in the favor of the elites

  69. Dr. Rockso November 11, 2011 at 6:24 pm -      #169

    @hitman
    Elites have their own explosive long range weapon and their own sniper, as do all of the other teams, so thats not really particularly valid, not to mention the boomshot is a grenade launcher and the other teams have rocket launchers

  70. SgCombine November 11, 2011 at 6:28 pm -      #170

    @Rockso
    I couldn’t find any COG rocket launcher, and I heard they didn’t even have one ☉_☉.
    Maybe instead of Elites I should have had the Skirmishers?

  71. Hitman H94 November 11, 2011 at 6:34 pm -      #171

    Yeh COGs don’t have a rocket launcher, skirmishers are fast or as fast elites aren’t they? But they are waay too weak along side the other fighters, maybe the three would have been fine.

  72. Xeno Dimentio November 11, 2011 at 6:36 pm -      #172

    Plus Colonial Marines.

  73. Reaper273 November 11, 2011 at 6:40 pm -      #173

    Skirmishers are a sort of sub-species of Kig’yar, or Jackal, they are faster, tougher and stronger than a regular Jackal. So Skirmishers are probably as strong and tough as a human and probably a bit faster with much better senses.

  74. Reaper273 November 11, 2011 at 6:41 pm -      #174

    Damn, I wish for an edit button!
    -
    Meant to say that the Skirmishers are faster than both Elites and Spartans.

  75. Hitman H94 November 11, 2011 at 6:49 pm -      #175

    Well skirmishers would have any explosive ordance as they usually have a plasma pistol or needle rifle. Maybe that would be a god counter against the speed.

  76. SgCombine November 11, 2011 at 6:53 pm -      #176

    Their definitely weaker than Elites, but if you look closely, their armor looks a lot like Elite Power Armor, so their probably stronger than ODST’s. I think i’ll suggest them in a match soon, not sure against who, but I think they should be introduced to Factpile (°⌣°).

    www.halopedian.com/images/4/45/HReach_-_Skirmisher.png

  77. CIDE November 11, 2011 at 9:59 pm -      #177

    “In ODST you only see dead Elites, the primary enemy in the game are the Brutes.”
    -
    The elites are allies in ODST too.
    -
    “Already released a few weeks ago, I could send you a copy if you want, its pretty good, its more like Cryptum then Ghosts of Onyx when it comes to action.”
    -
    Ebook? That’d be nice.
    -
    “What is standard? FMJ or AP? If so, then they lose, as FMJ or AP would do very little to the Flood. They need rounds like Hollow-points.”
    -
    Standard is FMJ. Hollow points wouldn’t be issued. Ever.
    -
    “We didn’t realize you were blind, I guess that awesome pic I selected myself was a waste.”
    -
    Pretty much this. The picture above elaborates clearly.
    -
    “Plus Colonial Marines.”
    -
    Aside from the lack of NBC protection they would’ve been a good choice. They’re already used to dealing with something just as deadly and their weapons are almost perfect for them.
    -

  78. Dr. Rockso November 11, 2011 at 10:05 pm -      #178

    @sg
    I think the cog version of a rocket launcher is the hammer of dawn, but that would definately severely unbalance the match in their favor
    Replacing elites with something weaker would probably be a good idea though

  79. sgtnacho November 11, 2011 at 11:00 pm -      #179

    No, the good idea is to make another match that is similar, later, no point in completely changing the entire debate around because the Elites got a sweet deal. Also, considering the Marines had “Better” weapons, and that the Elites didn’t have shotguns, it seemed more even to the OP.
    -
    It turned out to be a clear win for the Elites, submit your own fight if you wanna see a better one.

  80. Hitman H94 November 13, 2011 at 7:23 am -      #180

    Okay so with the current step we are all agreeing Elites win then.

  81. Galorian November 13, 2011 at 8:55 am -      #181

    Indeed.

  82. CIDE November 13, 2011 at 12:13 pm -      #182

    They stomp. We need a different line up of squads here. Either all lower tier like the rest of them or we all go guys that are at or around the level of the Elites. Like a Crysis Spec ops team with equal numbers, maybe something from MGS, and….I don’t know about the last one.

  83. Hitman H94 November 13, 2011 at 4:51 pm -      #183

    Agreed will discuss things on the Topia about this.

  84. SgCombine November 13, 2011 at 5:20 pm -      #184

    Sounds like I’m in trouble :(

  85. Hitman H94 November 13, 2011 at 5:29 pm -      #185

    Hahaha no your not we will just make the match more fairer, and rethink things :)

  86. Carmine February 22, 2012 at 9:03 am -      #186

    Sorry but this is a huge spite, REGULAR C.O.G. soldiers are regular front line infantry they have no experience in rescues, everybody except the C.O.G. in this match are special forces units, you should at least added C.O.G. commandos or Onyx Guards

  87. Carmine February 22, 2012 at 9:06 am -      #187

    P.S the C.O.G. do have a rocket launcher

    gearsofwar.wikia.com/wiki/Rocket_Launcher

    But it’d be better if they had the Vulcan Cannon

    gearsofwar.wikia.com/wiki/Vulcan_Cannon

  88. johnnovak April 10, 2014 at 11:41 am -      #188

    Although… we all know Chuck Norris would win…

Leave A Response

You must be logged in to post a comment.


3b3390d9415db7f45e4b79ac7e8a57f590198af474230e495a