Suggested by Soldier’s Shadow
Here we have a match featuring two heavyweights in their genre – Jay-Z and Eminem.
While there are many ways to determine the winner, let’s focus on:
Who’s better?
Who’s more influential?
Who’s more successful?
My thoughts? Jay-Z takes the prize for one reason: Beyonce
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I agree with the Beyonce bit, Jay is slamming Beyonce while M&M has songs whining about the shitdicks and his mommy issues.
But, I hear a lot of Eminem praise from people actually interested in the genre, so I can’t knock his talents based on anything but personal taste.
Still, the Beyonce thing.
Eminem + Dido – Stan
Eminem for the win
Is this a fight, or is this about the music.
I do not know who will win in both.
Well since it’s a rap battle, the winner should be the one who got shot more and survived.
I believe that Nas already decided this battle. “Eminem killed you on your own shit.” ~ Nas… in some dis song to Jay-Z.
Better?: Eminem. Listen to Jay-Z and Kanye’s new album compared to Bad Meets Evil’s new EP, Eminem wins.
Influential?: Eminem redefined popular music, and hip-hop… Jay-Z just kinda is there being good.
More Successful?: Jay-Z: 50 million records sold. Eminem: Over 80 million.
Em wins with style and grace.
My money is on Eminem. After hearing criticism of Relapse, he scrapped the sequel and made Recovery within a year.
Also made a sample from What is Love not seem like a joke.
Hova wins this hands down. Unfortunately for Eminem he’s a one trick pony and been spitting the same shit over and over again for th last 2 albums. Still bitching about these hoes and his drug addiction. Hova on the other hand has more versatility. He also has put out better albus 2 of which are considered some of the greatest albums of all time. Business wise Hova wins it again. And last but not least Hova has way more swag and musical capability. And he banging Beyonce. Well. So well he got that girl dick whipped.
Midnite you obviously never heard anything beyond the singles of the last 2 albums. You are also a retard.
from my personal experience to both artist i would have to give this one to J-Z, better albums and personality
But hell to each is own.
Please note that there are 3 categories. Eminem unquestionably wins two of them, so he wins regardless of your tastes.
Personally, I really enjoy both artists but midnite does bring up a good point, Eminem’s too stuck in his own formula that began with Relapse and continued on with Recovery but I think that’s also because Em seems to be getting a bit too mainstream. Relationships is all the pop crap is about today and Eminem seems to be falling into there. Back in the days of the Eminem Show, that’s where he shined.
Jay Z on the other hand is different with each album in some way shape or form and has had his own albums to match Em’s two diamond albums. I don’t remember which ones but I know Jay went diamond at least once. I enjoy both of their flows and music compositions in the background but Jay has a better diction IMO
Wonder if Jay would’ve been better matched against Dr. Dre.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmbRNCqMrfA -Main reason I suggested this match. 8)
www.mtv.com/news/articles/1647055/eminem-jayz-by-numbers.jhtml
going by the numbers, they seem pretty even
akelz I have heard all of his shit and I’m not impressed. As for retarded I fail to see where you draw your conclusion for me having some sort of mental problem. Its obvious your one of the ‘Stans’ Eminem was talking about who thinks this dude is the best rapper alive. On thing I’ll give him though is that his writing scheme is very clever if you look at it on paper. Way better then Jay-z’s or most other rappers not lyric wise but the way they are composed. Read about the way he writes in class since we did a segment on it and his way of writing is a form of peotry which name escapes me.
As for being better that beyond subjective since some people think Gucci Mane is the best rapper alive. As for influential no he’s not even remotely as influential as Jay-Z. With Dame Dash Jay-Z turned rap on its head. He was the first to make popping crystal or however you spell it hot. He was the one who started turning rapping into big business being one of the first along with Dame to make a record label, clothing line, movie production company, and bring to light some of the best acts to grace hip hop. And last he made the bluerpint. What has shady done exactly that has been influential? He’s not the first white rapper, he’s changed nothing about the rhyme scheme(Jay-Z has though), he’s done nothing new musically(Jay-Z has), so what exactly has he brought to the game?
And admin please fix the comment bar I can’t see half of what I’m typing.
“Eminem unquestionably wins two of them”
Arguable as he only wins the last one. First one is arguable but I believe Jay Z put more influence into those he put on through Rocafella than Eminem did. Also take into account who each put on the scene;
Em help put on 50 Cent, Stat Quo, Cashis Yelawolf and D12, all of which out of suck or are mediocre. Even then, it was Dre who put 50 on further and on the direction he is today.
Jay Z put on Lupe Fiasco and J.Cole, both of which are infinitely better than any of the ones put on by Eminem in terms of flow, fame, skill and verses. I also believe Jay put on Rihanna (not a rapper but since I’m mentioned who they put on) whose no doubt a huge success nowadays in terms of sales and popularity.
The one thing that brings Jay down in my eyes is all the songs and albums he’s been making with Kanye West recently. Yes, some of them are pretty good but Kanye? Jay can do better than that.
Also lets not bring Nas into this since Jay-Z won that battle. All Nas did was make jokes. Jay-Z spit fact on both Super Ugly and Takeover. Jay-Z did fuck Nas’ baby mother. A basket ball player who’s name escapes did fuck Nas’ Baby Mother. Nas stay cuffing hoes among other facts. Facts win battles not corny ugly jokes.
@Midnite
1: So calling me a “Stan” is justified? You ARE retarded. Techn9ne is a better rapper. Period. Also Encore was mediocre, and I do NOT have the underground shit that he did with Scam.
2: Well Eminem, again, redefined popular music and was the first successful white rapper.Sure he hasn’t changed much in hip-hop (He’s still really the only good white rapper), but he’s affected a lot else.
@Soldier’s Shadow
1: I see no ‘mainstream corruption”, I just see his music being (understandably) popular.
@Greed
Again. 30 million record sales don’t lie. Em wins in the numbers.
“Jay Z put on Lupe Fiasco and J.Cole, both of which are infinitely better than any of the ones put on by Eminem in terms of flow, fame, skill and verses. I also believe Jay put on Rihanna (not a rapper but since I’m mentioned who they put on) whose no doubt a huge success nowadays in terms of sales and popularity. ”
Shit Jay-Z put on Freeway, Beenie Seagel,Chris and Neefi, put Pharrell on the map as a producer, Cam’ron, Jim Jones, Juelz Santana, Dipset in general, Kanye West(One of the most influential if not the greatest thing to happen to hip hop since he made it so you don’t have to have a thug persona to Rap), Tierra Mari, Memphis Bleek, and that’s off the top of my head.
@SS
Lupe, eh?
nottooshortand50Centisactuallyokay
“1: So calling me a “Stan” is justified? You ARE retarded. Techn9ne is a better rapper. Period. Also Encore was mediocre, and I do NOT have the underground shit that he did with Scam. ”
Wait what? What does Tech N9ne have to do with anything. And isn’t Tech N9ne independent. I don’t see where your coming from. As for calling you a Stan your acting like a Stan. Defending this man to the death is what Stans do.
“ 2: Well Eminem, again, redefined popular music and was the first successful white rapper.Sure he hasn’t changed much in hip-hop (He’s still really the only good white rapper), but he’s affected a lot else. ”
Eminem did not redefine popular music since the music was popping before he was there, while he was cracked out, and is still popping.
“ 1: I see no ‘mainstream corruption”, I just see his music being (understandably) popular. ”
What he means is once something becomes popular industry sees it can make money off it. Once that happens they take the music and twist it to appeal to the most people possible. Basically Eminem was better back when he first started then what he is now.
”Again. 30 million record sales don’t lie. Em wins in the numbers. ”
Well there’s a number of reasons for that gap. Namely because he is more ‘crossed over’ and appeals more to whites then Jay-Z’s does since what he raps about both whites and blacks can understand where he’s coming from. Besides that sales does not equate to quality if so Hondas are superior to Lambos and Jessica Black is the greatest talent to grace God’s green earth.
“Lupe, eh? ”
Yep. Jay-Z gave him his start when he put him on the song Touch The Sky with Kanye. After he got his buzz from that and people were feeling him he financed Food and Liquor and even got on a song with him. Got a nice return from it too since that album did surprisingly well. Not too happy with Lupe’s latest album though since it doesn’t sound anything like Lupe right down to the popish sound. But he admitted the record label forced him to put that bullshit out.
“Wait what? What does Tech N9ne have to do with anything. And isn’t Tech N9ne independent. I don’t see where your coming from. As for calling you a Stan your acting like a Stan. Defending this man to the death is what Stans do.”
1: I mentioned Techn9ne because no Stan would ever see someone as superior to Eminem.
2: No, Stans go fucking crazy and kill people. You’re basically calling me a fanboy for defending him at all. Fucking douche.
“What he means is once something becomes popular industry sees it can make money off it. Once that happens they take the music and twist it to appeal to the most people possible. Basically Eminem was better back when he first started then what he is now.”
Well of course he was but that’s not why (well, mostly… fucking Rhianna and Pink), it’s mostly because when he made his older shit he was more… inspired, should I say. I think that the whole ‘ 4 year hiatus with the drugs and the Proof dying which leads to the worst chorus EVER’ thing assured that he could not come back better.
“Well there’s a number of reasons for that gap. Namely because he is more ‘crossed over’ and appeals more to whites then Jay-Z’s does since what he raps about both whites and blacks can understand where he’s coming from. Besides that sales does not equate to quality if so Hondas are superior to Lambos and Jessica Black is the greatest talent to grace God’s green earth.”
Um, did you read the match description? One of the categories is “WHO IS MORE POPULAR?!” I think that the 30 million records sold difference between them certifies who wins.
“Yep. Jay-Z gave him his start when he put him on the song Touch The Sky with Kanye. After he got his buzz from that and people were feeling him he financed Food and Liquor and even got on a song with him. Got a nice return from it too since that album did surprisingly well. Not too happy with Lupe’s latest album though since it doesn’t sound anything like Lupe right down to the popish sound. But he admitted the record label forced him to put that bullshit out.”
I for one enjoyed Lasers.
“1: I mentioned Techn9ne because no Stan would ever see someone as superior to Eminem.”
Tech N9ne better then Eminem? Maybe since he certainly has more tenure. Lyrically I wouldn’t go that far. I like old Tech N9ne not the new devil worshipping rapist Tech N9ne.
“2: No, Stans go fucking crazy and kill people. You’re basically calling me a fanboy for defending him at all. Fucking douche.”
The meaning of Stan has changed so relax. It basically means your a devoted fan of something.
”Well of course he was but that’s not why (well, mostly… fucking Rhianna and Pink), it’s mostly because when he made his older shit he was more… inspired, should I say. I think that the whole ‘ 4 year hiatus with the drugs and the Proof dying which leads to the worst chorus EVER’ thing assured that he could not come back better. ”
Whoa wait Rihanna is actually very talented. The girl can sing, dance, play multiple instruments, and is a fashion designer. Never listened to pink though. Not to mention the woman is sexy as hell but that forehead is crazy.
“ Um, did you read the match description? One of the categories is “WHO IS MORE POPULAR?!” I think that the 30 million records sold difference between them certifies who wins.”
Since when does 1/3 equal victory. Jay-Z is more influential and is more successful by extremely large margins as well as arguably better but ‘better’ is not something that is tangible so I shy away from that term. Besides that popularity wasn’t up there
“Who’s better?
Who’s more influential?
Who’s more successful?”
No popularity to be seen.
Influential-Changed hip hop, brought better acts to the forefront, just him mentioning a drink in a song turned a man into a millionaire.
Success-More money, more business ventures, more respected, multiple acts that generate him money.
Better-Subjective
Thus technically Jay-Z wins.
Oh boy, a music thread!!! Time to wait for a flame war to erupt due to Sloth or something else.
“I for one enjoyed Lasers. ”
Meh it wasn’t up to my expectations. It took him almost 4 years to put that shit out and it wasn’t very good. Kind of like Duke Nukem Forever.
“Oh boy, a music thread!!! Time to wait for a flame war to erupt due to Sloth or something else.”
Just ignore the fucker if he posts some off-topic bullshit. They’re not even worth the keystrokes especially if they posting flame-bait on purpose just for attention.
“Success-More money, more business ventures, more respected, multiple acts that generate him money.”
I think that this thread would (and should) be strictly music that the artist made.
”
Meh it wasn’t up to my expectations. It took him almost 4 years to put that shit out and it wasn’t very good. Kind of like Duke Nukem Forever. ”
Ummm… DNF was a steaming pile of SHIT, at least Lasers was good.
Also, I dislike Rhianna. She’s talented but I…. I just don’t.
“Ummm… DNF was a steaming pile of SHIT, at least Lasers was good”
lol wasn’t that bad plus you missed the reference. DNF sucked so hard because it was made by multiple developers each putting something in it so it wasn’t coherent. Lasers suffered the same problem since it wasn’t just Lupe but all the executives of Atlantic Records putting what they feel should be in it. If you take LASERS and put it up against any of his albums or even mixtapes it’ll get slapped down every time. Even by the shit from when Lupe was a gansta rapper.
“ I think that this thread would (and should) be strictly music that the artist made.”
Hey the thing said success and influence. Success is not just about the music but everything that comes with that music. Money, Cash, Hoes. Besides that we all know Jay-Z is more successful so that shouldn’t be a surprise. Man was number 1 on the Forbes list this year clocking in 54 million dollars. Eminem was behind Lil Wayne and Baby at 14-15 million. Influence goes to Jay-Z cause he dominates the industry and has dominated it since the 97 and changed the way that shit works multiple times. And musically you can’t name another artist in music with more consistency as well.
“Also, I dislike Rhianna. She’s talented but I…. I just don’t. ”
Why? She sexy as hell and she must got that Wonder Woman pussy cause Chris Brown still beat after like 2 years. Plus I met her in person and she cool as hell and looks better in person but the forehead oh my god lol
Oh look. Another rap thread.. lol ^_^
But seriously… out of all the possible fights in the universe, this was chosen in spite of them? I assume the suggester of the match paid for priority. *Sigh*
@Sloth – Nope, not paid for. I enjoy seeing how others feel about other topics not commonly found on the ‘Pile.
Exactly Sloth so shut your ass up and stop bitching. People like debating other thing besides fantasy characters.
@admin-Do you think it would be possible to debate a hip hop vs rock roll thread. That’ll be interesting though I’m sure it’ll turn into a flame thread in short order.
Do you think it would be possible to debate a hip hop vs rock roll thread. That’ll be interesting though I’m sure it’ll turn into a flame thread in short order.
Please don’t go there, Marauder. Flame Thread won’t even cover the outcome of what you propose. Trust me.
I think I’ve suggested that already.
@midnite marauder – lulz, you know a thread like that will certainly open up a shitstorm, but what the heck, right?
Exactly. What’s life without a little chaos right.
@Blood Dancer-We’re all adults here so I’m sure we can have a civil debate. Who am I kidding the thread will be worst then Nintendo vs Warhammer 40k. But the lols that will be gained will last a life time.
@akelz7
“(He’s still really the only good white rapper)”
macmiller is ok but still getting off the ground
@ midnite marauder
“Kanye West(One of the most influential if not the greatest thing to happen to hip hop since he made it so you don’t have to have a thug persona to Rap) ”
thats some of the dumbest shit i’ve heard, kanye is what gets people to dislike the genre
your also acting like a stan version of jay-z
”
Influential-Changed hip hop, brought better acts to the forefront, just him mentioning a drink in a song turned a man into a millionaire.
Success-More money, more business ventures, more respected, multiple acts that generate him money.
Better-Subjective
Thus technically Jay-Z wins.”
……………your jumping to conclusions at comment 23????!!!!
“Hey the thing said success and influence.”
Hmmmmm, lets see, Wikipedia:::
Eminem:
An american rapper, record producer, and actor. Eminem’s popularity brought his group project, D12, to mainstream recognition. As well as being a member of D12, Eminem is also one half of the Detroit hip hop duo Bad Meets Evil, with Royce da 5’9″. Eminem is one of the best-selling artists in the world. He has been listed and ranked as one of the greatest artists of all time by many magazines. Including his work with D12 and Bad Meets Evil, Eminem has achieved ten number one albums on the Billboard Top 200. He has also sold more than 33 million track downloads and 39.6 million albums in the United States alone.
3 of his albums got grammy awards, making him the first person to win Best rap album for 3 consecutive LPs. Recovery was named the best selling album worldwide in 2010 along with the eminem show which was in 2002. He has a total of 13 grammys. He has his own radio station and record company. He starred in the hip hop drama film 8 Mile. He is also set to star in the 2013 films Shady Talez, Have Gun, Will travel and Southpaw. He has also made cameo appearances in The Wash (2001), Funny People (2009) and television series Entourage. He also has a book.
Jay-z:
He has sold approximately 50 million albums worldwide, while receiving thirteen Grammy Awards for his musical work, and numerous additional nominations.
Jay-Z co-owns the 40/40 Club, is part-owner of the NBA‘s New Jersey Nets and is also the creator of the clothing line Rocawear.[6] He is the former CEO of Def Jam Recordings, one of the three founders of Roc-A-Fella Records, and the founder of Roc Nation.[7] As an artist, he holds the record for most number one albums by a solo artist on the Billboard 200.[8] Jay-Z also has had four number ones on the Billboard Hot 100, one as lead artist.Jay-Z was ranked as the 10th most successful artist of the 2000–2009 decade by Billboard Magazine and ranking as the 5th top solo male artist and as the 4th top rapper behind Eminem, Nelly, and 50 Cent.
I think that this clearly shows they are both talented but Eminem wins the success portion
@ all, the better category is debatable so heres the dictionary version: of superior quality or excellence
also everyone should stop bashing the other artists just because you htink one is better
admin can always kill it if it gets to out of hand
Although it would be kind of like watching a forest fire…
PLZ LET THIS FOREST FIRE somehow reach a nuclear power plant
The biggest problem with Hip Hop vs. Rock and Roll is of course that rock is older and thus has an advantage in many categories, mainly being in the hearts and minds of the semi-adults on Factpile.
I think any time I see these music threads up from now on I’ll just say Wierd Al shows up and whoops them. Like the way people do (insert character here, usually Kharn) for a lot of duels.
“thats some of the dumbest shit i’ve heard, kanye is what gets people to dislike the genre”
No. If you look at what I’m saying instead of flying off the handle you’d understand. Kanye changed the game when it came to artist persona for better. Before Kanye all there was was gangsta rappers in some way or another. Kanye made it possible for dudes like Lupe, J. Cole, Wale, and even Drake bitch ass to be what they are now since 10 years ago they would have been laughed out the game.
“ ……………your jumping to conclusions at comment 23????!!!!”
No cause I can count. I don’t care nor does anyone on this site or the academic world for that matter what wikipedia has to say on the matter.
Jay-Z networth-over 500 million dollars and alongside his wife that figure is doubled and then some since she makes more money then he does.
Eminem-115 million.
Jay-Z successful acts-Kanye West, Young Gunz, Beanie Sigel, Freeway, Lupe Fiasco, Rihanna, Tierra Marri, Dipset, Jadakiss, NORE wack ass, and memphis bleek wack ass. Probably forgetting others
Eminem-D12-flopped, 50 Cent-only success, Royce Da 5’9-best thing he ever touched, and probably someone else I’m forgetting
Business Venture
Jay-Z-Rocawear, recently acquired BBC/Ice Cream, Co-owner of the nets though I don’t watch basketball so I don’t know if they trash are not but they probably are, Rocafella, Rocnation, and other shit I’m probably forgetting.
Shady-Wack ass clothing line that flopped named Shady Limited. Probably never heard of it since it went the way of the Pippen. Had a hoody from him, Record lablel, and a few commercials.
”your also acting like a stan version of jay-z”
Wrong and earl sweatshirts can vouch for me. My favorite rapper is Curren$y who’s better then both these dudes. I just respect Jay-Z. I also just speak these things called facts.
“The biggest problem with Hip Hop vs. Rock and Roll is of course that rock is older and thus has an advantage in many categories, mainly being in the hearts and minds of the semi-adults on Factpile. ”
Correction Rock and Roll is older and most people that frequent this site weren’t even born when real rock and roll was around. Rock and Roll is shit like Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and Elvis Presley. What these people on here listen are their sub-categories metal, grudge, and Rock the new age and lower quality versions since those are not nearly as well made, have as good a rhythm(you can dance to rock and roll since it was dance music) and is basically a bunch of dudes strumming as fast and hard as possible while singing horribly off key or worse screaming into the mic. But there are exceptions to every rule.
On a side note, since Kanye keeps getting pulled up.
The guy ruined a perfectly good Daft Punk song. I have no idea what possessed them to let him do that. Everything about that man and everything related to him needs to be burned off the surface of this Earth with a prejudice not seen since the complete and total eradication of small pox from everything outside of some back room lab where it (and all things Kanye) should be sealed away from the public for forever. The only musician that even approaches how bad this man is would be the infamous Rebecca Black incident, which I consider to be upon the internet the rough equivalent of a Godzilla attack on Tokyo or Osaka. The man needs to just stop.
@Sauro
If Kanye is SOOOO bad, why are all of his albums so critically acclaimed? Why has he “changed the genre” so many times? Just shut the fuck up about ALL THINGS RAP, since you, as proven by Biggie vs. Tupac, know nothing of it.
“The guy ruined a perfectly good Daft Punk song. I have no idea what possessed them to let him do that. Everything about that man and everything related to him needs to be burned off the surface of this Earth with a prejudice not seen since the complete and total eradication of small pox from everything outside of some back room lab where it (and all things Kanye) should be sealed away from the public for forever. The only musician that even approaches how bad this man is would be the infamous Rebecca Black incident, which I consider to be upon the internet the rough equivalent of a Godzilla attack on Tokyo or Osaka. The man needs to just stop. ”
Your clearly gassing it. Kanye is nice when he tries. Just cause he made one bad song, and I agree that song and album (though Daft Punk agreed to make it and helped him make it, and appeared in the music video putting their stamp of approval on it thus they obviously liked it), in general sucked, doesn’t mean Kanye as a whole is a bad artist. I like how you mention one song indicating you listened to very few of his songs in general. College Drop Out and Late Registration were two classic pieces of hip hop history and Watch The Thrown is great along with My Dark Twisted Fantasy, I take it you never heard songs like All Falls Down and Let You Down. Besides that Kanye is one of the best producers in the game topped by very few Namely Ski Beatz, Neptunes, and DJ Premier.
But one thing that saved the song was the video was inspired by Akira. That alone makes it a good effort.
“@Sloth – Nope, not paid for. I enjoy seeing how others feel about other topics not commonly found on the ‘Pile.”
I like how you say “how others feel about other topics” rather than “how others debate”.. kind of like you know for a fact that the flaming will outweigh the debating.
Oh.. and I wouldn’t say that rap is an uncommon topic around factpile. How many rap threads have there been? I’m thinking at least 5.. and how many are popular and/or have scored more than 100 posts? I’m thinking not many.
“Exactly Sloth so shut your ass up and stop bitching. People like debating other thing besides fantasy characters.”
Admin wasn’t defending you.. in fact, the way he worded it pretty much guarantees my right to an opinion.. and I think rap is the scourge of the music industry– not to say that it IS music.
“Admin wasn’t defending you.. in fact, the way he worded it pretty much guarantees my right to an opinion.. and I think rap is the scourge of the music industry– not to say that it IS music.”
And your mom is the scourge of the the buss down industry. We obviously don’t give a fuck what you think so why are you even here? You must be bored as hell. Fact of the matter is they still making money, still got your sisters and cousins on they dick, and ain’t shit you can do about it so stop hating.
“No cause I can count”
That makes a lot of sense
Where are you getting all these “Facts” since most of them are one sided opinons
And im still gonna say that i dont like kanye regardless of what he did for the industry
Also you added about 50 million to the Jay-z networth but anyway his is still higher
”
Jay-Z-Rocawear, recently acquired BBC/Ice Cream, Co-owner of the nets though I don’t watch basketball so I don’t know if they trash are not but they probably are, Rocafella, Rocnation, and other shit I’m probably forgetting.
Shady-Wack ass clothing line that flopped named Shady Limited. Probably never heard of it since it went the way of the Pippen. Had a hoody from him, Record lablel, and a few commercials.”
Your forgetting so much stuff like you said and you can find most of it in my other comment which you need to read again
THOSE are the facts not your “wack-ass” “flopped” opinions
As for lyricism: Em wins, his rhyme scheme and flow is untouchable
As for storytelling: Lose yourslef and Stan blow Regulate, Follow the Leader and even Parents Just Don’t Understand away
Freestyling and battling all for Eminem
So for who is better category Eminem should have it.
As for successful i say Eminem still has it the sales don’t lie
Influential, say what you want
@ MM
While rock and roll vs hip hop would be interesting, I think that metal vs rap(hip hop included) would be a better battle.
Watch the throne > whatever shit em and royce the fag 9 has
jay-z is lyrically better than Em hell, even kanye is.. Jay-z’s wordplay just slaughters em’s so called “style” just listen to gotta have it on WTT
“If Kanye is SOOOO bad, why are all of his albums so critically acclaimed? Why has he “changed the genre” so many times? Just shut the fuck up about ALL THINGS RAP, since you, as proven by Biggie vs. Tupac, know nothing of it. ”
Kanye “changed the genre”? When did this happen and why wasn’t I informed?
“While rock and roll vs hip hop would be interesting, I think that metal vs rap(hip hop included) would be a better battle.”
Metal is too narrow a spectrum to compete with Rap if you’re including Hip-Hop.
As for the match Eminem blows Jay-Z out of the water.
What did 3 rappers get in a liquor store? ……….they bought 2Pacs of M&Ms for 50 Cents
couldn’t help it.
“Jay-Z spit fact on both Super Ugly and Takeover.”
Takeover… One of my faves from Hova. 8)
“ 1: I see no ‘mainstream corruption”, I just see his music being (understandably) popular. ”
Compare the Eminem Show to Recovery and you’ll see a vast difference in terms of quality songs and lyrics. Love The Way You Lie was probably one of the only good songs that came out of that album. Bad Meets Evil along with Shady’s other collaborative works such as “Drop the World” with Lil Wayne are still pretty top notch IMO
“nottooshortand50Centisactuallyokay”
His collabs are decent but he’s still kind of a bitch.
back better. ”
“Whoa wait Rihanna is actually very talented. The girl can sing, dance, play multiple instruments, and is a fashion designer. Never listened to pink though. Not to mention the woman is sexy as hell but that forehead is crazy.”
This though I didn’t know about the instruments or fashion designer parts. Fact of the day lol
“Oh boy, a music thread!!! Time to wait for a flame war to erupt due to Sloth or something else.”
Dude, just ignore him. I suggested this thread in the false hopes of it not being turned into a shit fest like Big vs 2Pac.
“Meh it wasn’t up to my expectations. It took him almost 4 years to put that shit out and it wasn’t very good. Kind of like Duke Nukem Forever. ”
This and an awesome analogy lol
“Do you think it would be possible to debate a hip hop vs rock roll thread”
Damn, I’d be torn on that one….
“Watch the throne > whatever shit em and royce the fag 9 has”
Watch the Throne…. Yeah, I like that one. 8) While Royce isn’t too much compared to Eminem or Jay-Z, he’s got a pretty decent flow and voice.
Damn, I should suggest a match featuring Dr. Dre. Can’t get enough of “Natural Born Killaz”.
“Metal is too narrow a spectrum to compete with Rap if you’re including Hip-Hop.”
You don’t know much about metal then. It has as much, if not more, diversity than any other genre out there. Hell one sub-genre in particular may have as much diversity as some other genres.
hip hop vs rock roll thread
This is a train wreck waiting to happen. Though watching Sloth gettimg bitch-slapped is very tempting, I dare say.
Regardless, I am the first to say that I prefer Rock and Roll and all comes with it. Scorpions, Queen, Judas Priest, The Doors, Iron Maiden (not rock per se, I know) – btw no way Iron Maiden has more fans than Tupac or BIG - etc…
In short Rock and Roll and all of its variants have lost ground to Rap/Hip Hop.
“Where are you getting all these “Facts” since most of them are one sided opinonsAnd im still gonna say that i dont like kanye regardless of what he did for the industry”
Internet. Besides that your entitled to like whoever you want since its your tastes. I can’t tell you your wrong for liking or disliking anyone just respect said persons hustle is all.
”Also you added about 50 million to the Jay-z networth but anyway his is still higher”
Jay-Z made 54 million this year according to Forbes magazine so I’d say that boosted him up a little.
“ Your forgetting so much stuff like you said and you can find most of it in my other comment which you need to read again”
Actually I added to your list. Your list however just says accolades no business ventures.
“ As for lyricism: Em wins, his rhyme scheme and flow is untouchable
As for storytelling: Lose yourslef and Stan blow Regulate, Follow the Leader and even Parents Just Don’t Understand awayFreestyling and battling all for Eminem”
All subjective opinion.
“ Freestyling and battling all for Eminem”
Jay-Z is the freestyle master since he hasn’t wrote a verse in years aka all his songs are freestyles.
”As for successful i say Eminem still has it the sales don’t lie”
Can’t be. Success does not just include album sales but the whole package and as a whole Jay-Z shits all over Eminem when it comes to success. Once again more money, more business ventures, actually successful artists besides 50 Cents corny, played out ass, actually successful clothing lines(rocawear even though played out shitted on G-Unit and Shady Limited thus why its still sold while that trash that eminem and 50 were shoveling is in the dumpster where it belongs), co-owner of BBC/Ice Cream which is better then anything Shady can hope to bring out, and other shit I don’t feel like naming. As you said the numbers don’t lie and money equals success. Hova has more. Respect that.
“ Watch the throne > whatever shit em and royce the fag 9 has”
Agreed. Royce lost his edge long ago.
“ Kanye “changed the genre”? When did this happen and why wasn’t I informed?”
I’ll explain it again. Before Kanye the only rappers who were taken seriously were gangsta rappers like Ruff Ryders, D-Block, shit like that. Then Kanye came and changed the game to where ANYONE with lyrical skill can get on. Without him acts like Lupe Fiasco would never have taken off.
“ You don’t know much about metal then. It has as much, if not more, diversity than any other genre out there. Hell one sub-genre in particular may have as much diversity as some other genres.”
I agree Metal has a lot of subgenres. Problem is Hip-Hop in its essence has no distinct sound. You can make it sound like anything you want. Its essence was supposed to be a form of self-expression hence why it has the highest cult following of any music genre. That’s why its my favorite genre. You can take literally anything and make a hip hop song with it. Besides that hip hop isn’t just about the music.
“And your mom is the scourge of the the buss down industry.”
You seem to be under the impression that my mother is a prostitute.
Sorry, loser, unlike in your dirty family, the women I associate myself with do not have promiscuous sex, for pay or for pleasure.
“We obviously don’t give a fuck what you think so why are you even here?”
Yet you feel the need to directly address my opinionated statements. Way to sell your unfounded insinuation. lol ^_^
“You must be bored as hell.”
That, and it’s called a laptop. Unlike some of you, I can make my insults on-the-go and not from the safety of: my mother’s basement, my mother’s attic, internet cafes, public libraries, or in your case, all of the above.
“Fact of the matter is they still making money, still got your sisters and cousins on they dick, and ain’t shit you can do about it so stop hating.”
Last I checked, Homo Sapiens only breed with other Homo Sapiens.. unless you’re saying that my family partakes in bestiality. Again, don’t compare my family with the likes of your dirty family.
This is a train wreck waiting to happen. Though watching Sloth gettimg bitch-slapped is very tempting, I dare say.”
May want to refrain from making hasty conclusions considering the current situation.
“You don’t know much about metal then. It has as much, if not more, diversity than any other genre out there. Hell one sub-genre in particular may have as much diversity as some other genres.”
Well Metal is essentially just a sub genre of Rock that has separated itself and while it has many sub genres, they aren’t that diverse, they aren’t allowed to be because their stuck in the confines of Metal and if they go too far they become Rock again, even occasionally Blues, Funk and Jazz. Whereas Hip-Hop is essentially anything, unlimited diversity.
“You seem to be under the impression that my mother is a prostitute”
Yep your mother was a 5 dollar hoe under the employ of a Pimp named Slick Back.
”That, and it’s called a laptop. Unlike some of you, I can make my insults on-the-go and not from the safety of: my mother’s basement, my mother’s attic, internet cafes, public libraries, or in your case, all of the above.”
Wow I didn’t know I can make clones of myself. How the fuck can I be at 4 places at once? Shut your dumb ass up
“Last I checked, Homo Sapiens only breed with other Homo Sapiens.. unless you’re saying that my family partakes in bestiality. Again, don’t compare my family with the likes of your dirty family.”
Is this a racist joke? Cause that’s the only way I can see your reasons of posting this. Like your calling us black monkey or some shit like that.
I’ll be ignoring you from henceforth and admin should really start banning motherfuckers around here cause you guys are getting out of hand.
Anyway Jay-Z takes this easy. Not even a debate.
Success-Check
Influence-Check
Better-Subjective
Thus 2/3 victory for Jay-Z.
I think he was just calling rappers in general a lower-class of folks (not just the black boys), after you mentioned that his kin were riding them. It’s a bit clumsy sure, but the guy just hates rap lol
“Yep your mother was a 5 dollar hoe under the employ of a Pimp named Slick Back.”
1) Ho* LOL
2) I like how you ignored my second statement
3) Slick Back Jr.?
” Wow I didn’t know I can make clones of myself. How the fuck can I be at 4 places at once? Shut your dumb ass up”
LOL.. Oh my… how incredibly stupid of you.
“Is this a racist joke? Cause that’s the only way I can see your reasons of posting this.”
*Sigh* The worst part about arguing with a moron is that 75% of the time, they can’t completely grasp the wit involved in my insults.. or most times, like now, comprehend it at all.
“Like your calling us black monkey or some shit like that.”
Pardon? Could’ve sworn you just admitted to being of a lesser subspecies.
“I’ll be ignoring you from henceforth and admin should really start banning motherfuckers around here cause you guys are getting out of hand.”
Looks like I win again ^_^
I vote +1 to ban Sloth for being a racist, classist, troll. Who’s with me?
I’ll put a vote in for that too. Admin has let this troll stay around long enough. He should be IP banned and lets be done with him. Matter of fact we need more rules of conduct around here in general cause people stay either trolling or derailing arguments with bullshit. Now we have racists running rampant. When does it end?
“Anyway Jay-Z takes this easy. Not even a debate.”
Aww man, I was hoping it’d go better….:(
“I vote +1 to ban Sloth for being a racist, classist, troll. Who’s with me? ”
/raises hand
“I think he was just calling rappers in general a lower-class of folks (not just the black boys), after you mentioned that his kin were riding them. It’s a bit clumsy sure, but the guy just hates rap lol”
This goes beyond that. He said they were less then human and the vast majority of them are black thus he’s on some 1960s shit. I’m black and I take offense to this.
“Well Metal is essentially just a sub genre of Rock that has separated itself and while it has many sub genres, they aren’t that diverse, they aren’t allowed to be because their stuck in the confines of Metal and if they go too far they become Rock again, even occasionally Blues, Funk and Jazz. Whereas Hip-Hop is essentially anything, unlimited diversity. ”
You just helped further my point there, metal can be mixed heavily with other genres, and still be metal. It is only once the music becomes too heavily influenced in other genres that it stops being metal. Nearly every type of genre has been used as influence by a metal band. Even among purely metal bands, there is still a huge range of diversity.
“I’m black and I take offense to this.”
I’m white, and I take offense to that.
though I have a good sense of humor I find Racism not funny at all, Midnite I do agree that racism should not be tolerated. though since i’m new, I have really no say on who should be banned.
He did say he hated rappers awhile ago, I figured it’s a broad net. But since I can never be offended, and since I don’t know him personally I’m not gonna play devil’s advocate or anything.
though since i’m new, I have really no say on who should be banned.
Admin banned some white supremacist guy a long time ago. I think it was a few months before I joined this place.
I vote +1 to ban Sloth for being a racist, classist, troll.
+1
Ohhh … they so sensitive
Seriously?? guys its just the internet goddamnit
“
Admin banned some white supremacist guy a long time ago. I think it was a few months before I joined this place.”
COOL. STORY.BRO
“I’m white, and I take offense to that.”
And you should since basically in a deeper sense that means that based off what he’s saying anyone who’s ever been attracted to a black person is essentially attracted to an animal. I’m sure you’ve been attracted to at least one black person as I have been attracted to women of all races. Racists make me sad sometimes but I just marvel at what we as human being have accomplished. 50 years ago if a white man was to publicly marry a black woman or vice versa they hang him from the nearest tree and cut his balls off. Now we got same sex marriages. Times are moving forward.
“ hough I have a good sense of humor I find Racism not funny at all, Midnite I do agree that racism should not be tolerated. though since i’m new, I have really no say on who should be banned.”
You are a part of the community just like the rest of us. Tenure has nothing to do with it. A fool is a fool and logical person is a logical person. Thus I’m glad the stars were did away with.
“ He did say he hated rappers awhile ago, I figured it’s a broad net. But since I can never be offended, and since I don’t know him personally I’m not gonna play devil’s advocate or anything.”
I understand where you coming from but he needs to go just like the rest of the trolls.
@Blood
Admin, is he a cool guy
Oh got an even better idea. How about Rock and Roll vs Metal. Lets save the Hip Hop vs Metal/Rock and Roll for when people mature more and there are less trolls.
@Greed
Was that a question? If so, then the answer is yes. The man is awesome. One of the things I like about this place is that he actually cares and takes time to answer or tend to our concerns. Not so much nowadays but that doesn’t change my opinion of him.
“Thus I’m glad the stars were did away with.”
where stars a sign of status or like an achievement for winning debates?
How about Rock and Roll vs Metal
+1
@blood
that’s great an awesome admin is hard to come by. I should talk to him sometime.
Nope just how many times people posted. Every 50 comments you get one star. Bad thing was that people were posting random bullshit to get their stars up.
“ Was that a question? If so, then the answer is yes. The man is awesome. One of the things I like about this place is that he actually cares and takes time to answer or tend to our concerns. Not so much nowadays but that doesn’t change my opinion of him.”
Agreed. Even had a little discussion with him on the whole Tiger Woods scandal. Very cool and down to earth man would a good sense of morals.
“Oh got an even better idea. How about Rock and Roll vs Metal. Lets save the Hip Hop vs Metal/Rock and Roll for when people mature more and there are less trolls.”
That would be a very good match up.
Test test, trying link thing.
Well I’m stuck with youtube gibberish
I meat to add:
But there would have to be some strict guidelines to what is included in each of the genres. Like Punk, Grindcore, and other ‘sub’genres that are close to being genres on their own.
“That would be a very good match up.”
Word. Back when music had true swag and people can really ‘sang’ not just sing. But the 40s,50s, and 60s music in general was better as a whole. 70s and 80s were also great but music as a whole started to take a plunge by the 90s and its big business thus dead then a mug now.
Matter of fact we can make a match up of 50s, 60s, and 70s vs 80s, 90s, and 2000s.
Matter of fact we can make a match up of 50s, 60s, and 70s vs 80s, 90s, and 2000s
Elvis, Dylan, Cash, Patti Smith, Jim Morrison, Jagger, Hendrix, Little Richard against all that came after them? Team 1 wins.
“Elvis, Dylan, Cash, Patti Smith, Jim Morrison, Jagger, Hendrix, Little Richard against all that came after them? Team 1 wins.”
Agreed. That’s back when a love song was a love song with real true lyrics. Devil or Angel is one of my favorite songs specifically the Clovers version
www.mojvideo.com/video-the-clovers-devil-or-angel/2ceb159ee4cacc6a6985
Just great music.
“www.mojvideo.com/video-the-clovers-devil-or-angel/2ceb159ee4cacc6a6985
Just great music.”
Loved that, Midnite.
This one is my personal favourite:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=awi14wDTxNw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdy0HeZtlqw
From ’94
“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awi14wDTxNw”
Great music. Can’t wait till Hip Hop reaches the level of these songs. They’re getting there but they still need time to mature since the music still young but its still beautiful. Listen to these two great ones from my favorite Curren$y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7oWSgYz388
Beat is bananas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezDAQ-YiYC8&feature=related
Who was the lady singing in the intro?
Neither songs are particularly uplifting but its just great fun music.
This is a little old but I just gotta say:
“Well Metal is essentially just a sub genre of Rock that has separated itself and while it has many sub genres, they aren’t that diverse, they aren’t allowed to be because their stuck in he confines of Metal and if they go too far they become Rock again, even occasionally Blues, Funk and Jazz. Whereas Hip-Hop is essentially anything, unlimited diversity.
“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdy0HeZtlqw”
LOL favorite scene in that movie. Pulp Fiction was a classic. Terantino always had balls. Dead nigger storage yet married to a black woman.
well that didn’t work. Anyways, go folk metal!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2HMWBsgURs
@blood dancer
I’ve been listening to the doors since I was about 7, and I’ve been reading more gemmell.
“Matter of fact we can make a match up of 50s, 60s, and 70s vs 80s, 90s, and 2000s.”
80s-2000s can’t compete with this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=piW9MHpfCu4
or this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9H_cI_WCnE
@Marauder
Not my cup of tea but I still found them interesting. Going to look this guy up.
@Ian
Which book are you reading atm?
Actually I added to your list. Your list however just says accolades no business ventures.
Isn’t this a debate about who’s the more successful rapper, not successful overall?
Jay-Z is the freestyle master since he hasn’t wrote a verse in years aka all his songs are freestyles.
That’ll explain Death to Autotune, which made no sense since he only talks about the reaction and not criticism.