Suggested by gun5ling3r2.0
It’s the battle of the Star Warriors as Darth Maul (a Factpile Champion) taking on a newcommer to the pile in Aayla Secura. And both of them are Jedis of the Star Wars Universe. One is a Sith Lord, the other is a member of the Jedi Order. So not only light sabers will be a factor but also the Force.
Can the dual wielder defeat a female who looks like she came from Star Trek? Or will the Twi’lek female defeat the Dathomirian Zabrak?
This looks like it would be quite tough, Aayla is just as aggressive a fighter as Maul is, mastering the form ataru so she won’t hold back. Both of them seem to focus on combat skills rather than the force although Aala does have the force cloak technique, but i’m not sure that will matter much. Right now though I don’t know who will win.
Aayla is a top heavy twilek.. meaning she’s easy to off balance, that and being a woman has less physical mass than Maul. Combine this with the fact that she is somehow french and it seems Maul has it in the bag. That and she’s not very strong in the force if she didn’t sense the clones RIGHT BEHIND HER about to blow her away. Obi and Qui knew danger was coming just two movies ago when the nemoidian captain hundreds of meters away decided that they needed to die and sent droids and gas.
It’s hard to say. They’re both adequate combatants, but I’d give Maul the edge for his superior agility and aggressiveness.
I do believe he’d get his ass handed to him by Shaak Ti.
Time to piss people off and ask if we’re using EU or movie canon?
My money’s on Darth Maul here until some Aayla arguments are brought forth.
Give Maul credit, he took on two Jedi masters evenly and even took the time to meditate mid-battle.
How well has Aayla done against other force-users in the past?
“Time to piss people off and ask if we’re using EU or movie canon?”
I presume that we are using both unless any EU contradicts the movies as that’s how it usually goes. In the end I think Maul will win but not without a fight. She managed to survive encounters with Grievous(when he was good at fighting and not total shit as shown in the movies). However she doesn’t seem to have any great feats that puts her on a par with Maul.
“Give Maul credit, he took on two Jedi masters evenly and even took the time to meditate mid-battle.”
Wasn’t Qui-gon the one who meditated mid-battle? As far as I remember it Maul was getting pissy at the force fields but I still take your point.
Now, I only saw Phantom Menace once (Because it was, you know Phantom Menace) but I thought it was Obi Wan wgo was geting pssy about the force-field.
But again, only saw it once so I’m quite likely wrong.
Actually you are quite right, Obi-Wan was getting pissy, but then again so was Maul. To be honest, no matter how pissy Maul gets he will still probably come out on top. I’m afraid I don’t know anything beyond the points I maid in my past posts about Aayla.Hopefully someone can come along and make an argument for her.
Edit
For some reason I wrote the wrong word there, I meant to say ‘made’ not ‘maid’.
Going by the Wookiepedia article for an overview, Secura really doesn’t bring too much to the table. She’s a skilled lightsaber combatant with some powers in stealth such as Force Cloak. Darth Maul appears to be the superior duelist of the two going by the manner in which he fights and the fact that, going by EU if allowed, held his ground very well against Lord Vader.
Double edged style and the potential of his lightsaber being cut in two for a duel wielded one should provide a ruthless and brutal advantage to Darth Maul in a duel from what I understand.
Honestly while Aayla is a strong duelist she is not the best or strongest Twi’lek when you look in the EU, as Shadow said he doesn’t bring much to the table whereas a somehow survived fall similar to what killed Palpatine on top of being cut in half and managed to hold his own against Vader later on Maul brings much more to the table. that and as has been said his saber is more versatile.
I’m going with Maul because I really don’t remember Aayla doing much at all.
Darth Maul was one of my favorite bad guys when that movie came out. Maul has some skills, but then again I don’t know too much about Aayla except she was shot dozens of times. Does a Twi’lek have any sort of skills to survive mutipule blaster shots or were the clones just having a good time?
I also think that Master Raskta Lsu could beat Maul.
I wonder how the double blade continues to work when cut in half… Never did get that…
wait…what…? Maul fought Vader? that would be against movie canon and then not usable right? i mean the books can claim he didn’t die all they want, but the movie portrayed the death of him for certain. not that i have a reason Aayla Secura would win anyways…
there are those that can defeat Maul and Aayla from what I know and have read and seen just isn’t the one to do it as good as she was, every jedi has a limit and hers is Maul.
“wait…what…? Maul fought Vader? that would be against movie canon and then not usable right? i mean the books can claim he didn’t die all they want, but the movie portrayed the death of him for certain. not that i have a reason Aayla Secura would win anyways…”
No, he survived the fall and got a cybernetic bottom half. He only lost because Vader was willing to shove his own lightsaber through himself..
Maul or a clone or copy did in the EU. and if the *shudders* clone wars series is anything to go by he is still alive. and he actually is counted as having come back from apparent certain death at least twice
The cybernetic lower half Maul that survived the fall is non-canon I believe though. however fighting Darth Vader is canon, as it was a clone or something.
“No, he survived the fall and got a cybernetic bottom half. He only lost because Vader was willing to shove his own lightsaber through himself..”
-i still don’t get it. why would this be considered canon, when it contradicts canon. could they say jango fett lived through the beheading and no one knew because he got a cybornetic body in seclusion after the battle? or is another novel wrote the emporer alive all along because he survived the same as darth maul? writing someone back from what is depicted as death in the movies seems to me to be about as contrary to canon as you can get(until you get stupidly off canon, like luke is a wookie, lol).
“Maul or a clone or copy did in the EU.”
-a clone wouldn’t count as a feat from the real darth maul. the match would have to be “clone of darth maul vs…” or else we could use jango fett’s feats for ALL clone troopers, and that’d be weird.
it was him the question is was he cloned, resurrected through Sith Alchemy or…some other means. its never said.
and I meant the cannon time his brain was translated into a program that controlled a solid light hologram of his normal body and weapon, after Luke turned off the life support system that was the final end of Maul, but he nearly killed Vader, and would have if Vader hadn’t pulled a suicide gambit stabbing his saber through himself and therefore Maul. considering Vader had so much extra experience by then I think its safe to assume Maul would be able to kill Aayla with little effort.
the mechanical lower half was non cannon.
and really we aren’t sure how Maul was brought back but it was him for certain Sith Alchemy is creepy that way.
“-i still don’t get it. why would this be considered canon,”
It’s not canon, but it he did look awesome with a cybernetic lower half.
“-a clone wouldn’t count as a feat from the real darth maul. the match would have to be “clone of darth maul vs…” or else we could use jango fett’s feats for ALL clone troopers, and that’d be weird.”
Officially it is a resurrected version of Darth Maul not a clone, but I and many Star Wars fans still call it a clone cuz they don’t really explain the resurrection.
ok, so the cyber butt isn’t cannon, got it. but what is this that can resurrect darth maul? if he was actually resurected that wouldn’t be contradicting canon(severely raping it though) and would be usable. and can you show where he was resurrected? i’m not arguing against him winning, just want to verify for everyone the feats that are being used to say that he does win. my knowledge of star wars is only movie based(and what i’ve seen on this site).
“ok, so the cyber butt isn’t cannon, got it. but what is this that can resurrect darth maul? if he was actually resurected that wouldn’t be contradicting canon(severely raping it though) and would be usable. and can you show where he was resurrected? i’m not arguing against him winning, just want to verify for everyone the feats that are being used to say that he does win. my knowledge of star wars is only movie based(and what i’ve seen on this site).”
Well, this is the comic in which he was resurrected.Get this, it’s named… wait for it… wait for it… Resurrection. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Resurrectio
“Give Maul credit, he took on two Jedi masters evenly and even took the time to meditate mid-battle.”
I second this
Also, Maul was trained by Emporer Palpatine, anyone in that position would be almost invinsible when you consider that Palpatine killed his master, who killed his master, until you eventually get to Bane, who we can all agree was one of the most powerful sith lords ever
So that was technically the last time Vader wound up fighting Maul, right?
I recalled one of those Jedi Quest special editions where he fought off a vision of Maul, before, but the one shown to us in ZomB’s link was the last form of Maul Vader had to fight.
Hmm the lady who was shot in the back by her own men(sort of)
or
The guy who took on 2 Jedi at once…
this was a….clone but not a clone. more of a…I guess reconstructed corpse since his brain was again used later. not sure what else you can call him. clone is sort of a loose term for him in the same way it wouldn’t be a good way to describe a force ghost
Leland Chee didn’t even know what the resurrected Darth Maul was, he just said it was canon.
Heres Leland Chee’s blog showing that he has probably no clue what was going on in that comic just like everyone else. blogs.starwars.com/holocron/22
blogs.starwars.com/holocron/22
trying the link again…
so are you saying it is or is not canon? I’m not sure where your going with that sorry.
Well, it is obviously canon, I just don’t think we should use it, and just forget about it for now since the whole damn thing is an unknown. Maul doesn’t really need that fight to prove he can beat Aayla anyways I think. However Aayla did duel Quinlan Vos and he is quite formidable.
ah okay I just didn’t want to make the wrong response to your post my bad. and I agree he doesn’t since he really has the same amount of experience in both fights unless he trained in the afterlife. plus Aayla never really showed herself equal to any notable masters
Sauroposeidon wrote:
“That and she’s not very strong in the force if she didn’t sense the clones RIGHT BEHIND HER about to blow her away. Obi and Qui knew danger was coming just two movies ago when the nemoidian captain hundreds of meters away decided that they needed to die and sent droids and gas.”
On this point, I have to disagree; the whole point behind using the clones was that they weren’t antagonistic (or feeling hostile) towards the Jedi they were shooting, they were merely following their programming/orders. It is relatively simple to detect active hostility directed towards oneself, compared to detecting obedience to (nominally) lawful orders that would cause harm to oneself. This is largely what enabled the Clones to successfully execute Special Order 66.
I agree with Kytheros. The only Jedi that I can think of that actually saw the betrayal coming before they opened fire were Yoda and Ki-Adi-Mundi, and Mundi only realized it after his troops broke orders, abandoned his charge, and set up a firing line with him as the clear target. Yoda gets excused as he is over 900 years old. He can pull whatever crap he wants out of his bag of tricks and pass it off as an old jedi master trick. The only reason Obi-Wan survived is because the of the range he had when the order was given and that there was water underneath him and not solid ground.
Mind you, Mundi and Obi-Wan were Jedi Masters. Aayla is a Knight. If they couldn’t detect it I don’t think we should hold it against her.
“On this point, I have to disagree; the whole point behind using the clones was that they weren’t antagonistic (or feeling hostile) towards the Jedi they were shooting, they were merely following their programming/orders.”
Jedi employ limited precog. This is why they don’t get mowed down by the Battle Droids. They don’t use their danger sense alone to pick up on the hostility of targets. The precog is also exactly why they can deflect blaster bolts, because they know exactly where to put their sabers. The force tells them where to move the blade… haven’t you ever seen a new hope? There’s an entire scene devoted to Luke learning to let the force flow through him so that he knows where to move his saber instinctively..
Hmm, wonder what would happen if the droids were just a little bit smarter?
Yes, Sauro, but their precog is also limited, as you said. The future constantly changes and they cannot always accurately predict what is going to happen. Haven’t you seen Empire Strikes Back? There is a whole scene dedicated to Luke learning to see the future and how it those visions can be inaccurate to the eventual future.
thats when they are looking at things like whats going to happen on x planet at x time not whats going to happen in mid battle when the guns are pointing at you. but they are limited. and the clone thing is mute since Maul is almost made of Malice towards Jedi if Aayla can’t precog him trying to slice her head off she must have cheated on her final exam as a padawan I mean look at Mauls history, he was born to be used against the Jedi to hate them. even padawan Obi-Wan in Phantom Menace could sense him while he was flying the Sith fighter towards them. he is a disturbance in the force.
“Jedi employ limited precog. This is why they don’t get mowed down by the Battle Droids. They don’t use their danger sense alone to pick up on the hostility of targets. The precog is also exactly why they can deflect blaster bolts, because they know exactly where to put their sabers. The force tells them where to move the blade… haven’t you ever seen a new hope? There’s an entire scene devoted to Luke learning to let the force flow through him so that he knows where to move his saber instinctively.. ”
If there isn’t active hostility directed towards them/behind an attack, they need to know what/where to be focusing their combat precog. It’s not a one-size fits all kind of proposition. If they don’t know where to focus it, the utility is significantly reduced.
Jedi have been jumped/surprised on multiple occasions.
In the A New Hope scene you refer to, Luke knew where he needed to focus his attention through the Force. It does not contradict in any way my statements.
My whole point was that just because Secura got assassinated by her clone trooper allies, and didn’t see it coming through the Force does not serve as a good indicator as to how strong/weak or skilled/unskilled in the Force she is. SO:66 was deliberately structured to bypass Jedi precog, that it did so should not be used to assess a particular Jedi’s ability.
agreed and really like I said Kytheros if she doesn’t sense Maul coming she might deserve it.
There are techniques to hide one’s presence in the Force. This is how Sidious avoided the Jedi detecting him for all those years.
I don’t know if Maul knows those techniques, however.
But, I think it’s largely irrelevant for this particular match, since Maul owns Secura, unless she’s got major Force combat feats I am unaware of.
Force combat no, but even if she did, Maul survived a full on force lightning barrage once. and he was running into it
Yeah, but Force Lightning is primarily a Dark Sider technique, and the Nightsister blasting him knew the only reason he could have survived was by being a Sith.
Force combat feats aren’t strictly things like Force Lightning; there are other combat applications that could be useful, but to my knowledge, Secura doesn’t have anything of sufficient caliber to take Maul.
uhm I don’t know if she does but Maul ran headfirst into a barrage of force lightning once and was all but totally unscathed. it wasn’t Sidious who did it but still. I don’t think Maul does, or that he’d bother using them. Maul is…well he’s like his namesake freaking brutal
I would definately say that Aayla is not stupid with the Force when it comes to precog. In the second episode of the two-parter where she, Anikan, and Ahsoka were stranded on that planet with the dumb pacifists, she and her group were spotted by a tiny probe droid. Ahsoka and some troops chased after it while Aayla calmly walked down a path to the side. Right as the droid is about to get into a clearing, and sound the alarm, Aayla sets out in front of it and cuts it up; only then do Ahsoka and the troops catch up to it. Aayla clearly saw where it was going to be and took a shorter path at a much slower rate and got there first.
I think it is safe to say that when there is an obvious threat, her battle precog works just fine. I also think that Maul will be an obvious threat in light of the fact that she will be told that he is going to try to kill her.
Aayla is also pretty awesome with a saber. She can wield both one or two sabers with great skill. I don’t think she is outclassed here. She might very well be beaten, but I don’t think she is outclassed. Now if we were talking about Savage Opress… THEN she would be outclassed; that guy is a monster jedi killer!
uhm do you mean the same Savage Opress that was sent to find Maul so that Maul could help him beat Dooku? I would think that since Maul is an unaugmented Zabrak that was capable of taking on jedi masters and only got killed because he thought Obi-Wan was too useless to be a threat which Savage is supposed to find to help him take on a sith lord would be at least as skilled as Opress. not saying he is or isn’t but still
Do I have to bring back up the fact that she’s french? She loses.
@GA:
Yeah, the Savage Opress who lived through a fight against a Jedi Master, a Sith Master, a Jedi Knight, a Sith Apprentice, and several battle droids. Yeah, that Savage. The dude just does not know how to die. I mean even before the guy was trained, and without a lightsaber too, he took out an entire detachment of clones, a jedi padawan, and a jedi master. Basically, he did in 5 minutes what Maul died trying to take out. Yeah, Maul should have won, but he didn’t.
@Sauro:
First off all; no she isn’t. She just sounds like it. All twi-leks in the Clone Wars do. And she is voiced by Jennifer Hale! That means she has a bit of SAMUS ARAN and COMMANDER SHEPARD in her. Do you really think Maul could stand up to THAT?
The fact that you even responded to that is hilarious. You have to know I wasn’t being serious.
Then again.. when I look at some of the 40k and Halo posts I’ve seen…
uhm Sauro I wouldn’t tell the French Foreign Legion, Joan of Arc, Napoleon and them the French equals auto lose.
and Original I had meant that if he was being sent to ask Maul for help then obviously Maul has something going for him. I admit Savage had some awesome feats but Maul also almost took down Vader with no more experience than when he was killed by Obi-Wan so obviously he was not a foe to be triffled with. also Maul suffered from fatal pride he was used to his opponents staying down after he put them down.
… I am impressed, alot more people than I thought manage to watch the clone wars series.
As for the French thing since we are all talking about it now… The Leclerc tank… nuff said.
right but back to the fight at hand Maul will well….maul Aayla. he’s not going to just walk in, despite Dooku amounting him to a dog he actually had a tactical mind. it was just PIS that caused him to ignore a weakened Jedi he could have easily sliced open and decided to not pay any attention to Obi-Wan after knocking him down
@sauro:
I’m equally surprised that you could mistake the glaring hole in my logic as anything but a joke. … then again, as you pointed out, some of those halo posts.
@GA:
Ah, I see. All too commonly I miss the point and I had done so once again. Yeah, Maul would have more refined skills than Savage. Savage was, after all, little more than a war hammer forged in a few weeks time while Maul was a rapier that was tempered over the course of years. My point was that Savage’s brute force was so over whelming that he would be the more dangerous foe. Although I might be talking out of my ass after all though. It has been some time since I watched those episodes. It’s all off topic anyways, and I apologize for the diversion. I would like to mention though that pride counts as CIS, and that is something that is factored in on Factpile. That’s usually not an issue, but Maul passed up certain victory for several minutes of gloating; that’s kinda a big flaw.
@ ZomB
The Clone Wars is one of the few shows I actually watch on TV. It is also the only show, aside from Neon Genesis Evengelion, that I have the DVDs for. That show is awesome, and exactly how cartoons should be done in this decade, just like Avatar: The Last Airbender. It is simply a great mix of seriousness, playfulness, color, action, and drama. Simple enough for kids to enjoy, but deep enough for adults to pick up a deeper meaning to it.
@OriginalA
I tried to watch it, I own almost every Star Wars novel, collectible, action figure etc. But I just can’t stand Ahsoka.
In an attempt to avoid thread derailment due to my dicking around…
I still think Aayla’s biggest draw back is her apparent inability to detect the clones were about to do what they did. She wasn’t the first one hit either, so she had to have felt a disturbance in the force. I’m not saying she was stupid about it, just that she’s not strong in it.
Of course, there are characters in fiction who are leaps and bounds weaker than others in said works of fiction in terms of their own (insert paranormal ability here). Char from Gundam being the biggest example I can think of.
Still.. Maul’s a total BA, to the umpteenth degree.. Aayla is going to need some serious displays of wicked saber combat technique to counter Maul.. who took on Obi and Qui-Gon for quite a while, and was WINNING until Obi somehow got him by surprise.
its okay and sorry on the mistaking the PIS CIS thing, still new around here. and agreed on it being a big flaw, but this is one foe he’s facing and arguably Qui-gon was a more skilled swordsman than Aayla from what I recall
Correction: Of course, there are characters in fiction who are leaps and bounds weaker than others in said works of fiction in terms of their own (insert paranormal ability here) who don’t suck in combat at all against those who are strong with “Power X”. Char from Gundam being the biggest example I can think of.
Too bad. I like her, or rather, I like how we see her dealing with her training; especially when she questions the quality and direction of her training. I think she would make for some good matches here on the ‘Pile. She’s a jedi, so she’s powerful, but she isn’t fully trained, so she can’t pull off all of the hax stuff they usually can do.
There still are a number of good episodes that either don’t center around her, or don’t include her at all. If she is the only problem you have with the series, then I highly suggest you watch the episodes that don’t feature her prominently. Most of them are clone centered episodes, and honestly I think those are my favorites anyways. … or they center around the Anikan/Obi-Wan duo, which is also good. If nothing else I highly recommend the quartet of episodes from season three that center around Ventress and Savage (11-14). I think that, thus far, that story arc is the highlight of the entire series, and I don’t think Ahsoka even showed up in any of those episodes to boot.
And I must say that that is a lot of star wars schwag you’ve got. Awesome!
“uhm Sauro I wouldn’t tell the French Foreign Legion, Joan of Arc, Napoleon and them the French equals auto lose.”
Just mention it to the French of every other time period! In all seriousness the French had some serious fighters, Charlemagne is one. The French in WW1 weren’t awful they managed to hold the line, with help. the Normans that took over the Saxons in Britain were French were they not? But yeah the only good military thing France has, that i know anything about, is the FAMAS. Beast of a rifle.
oh right the topic!… I personally see Maul winning this fight, but to say Secura will get “stomped” or “mauled” seems over the top in my opinion. She is a skilled Jedi. She was made a general over her own Clone “army” (idk how big it was) so the Jedi Council must see some serious skill in her. Was any other non Jedi master made a general? besides Anakin.
I agree the series has some high points when you watch it.
and yeah Aayla doesn’t have much screen or page times or anything
There are other issues with the series.. the plot armor is the biggest one.
Trandoshans are crazy strong and durable, equal to Wookiees. They’re depicted as being able to smack around the Jedi.. up until the plot calls for the Jedi to win, then they go down like B-1′s.
DROIDEKAS! If you’ve seen episodes with these, you know I don’t need to really go on.
sgtnacho
right they did no question there.
hmm off the top of my head I don’t know if they were but not sure. I do know that Maul was capable of going toe to toe with the likes of Darth Vader and almost winning, Vader had to suicide gambit his way out by stabbing himself through the lifesupport system to hit Maul. he’s no slouch when it comes to the art of saber combat
“Trandoshans are crazy strong and durable, equal to Wookiees. They’re depicted as being able to smack around the Jedi.. up until the plot calls for the Jedi to win, then they go down like B-1′s.”
If I recall they were always almost as strong as Wookies.
“DROIDEKAS! If you’ve seen episodes with these, you know I don’t need to really go on.”
I don’t remember much of them in the series, are they OP or UP? I’m guessing UP since they’re supposed to be like Jedi killers… also wtf is with those Assassin droids?
It has created a few really fkin weird plots.
It is ridiculously censored www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE11a9BXe54&feature=player_embedded
“She wasn’t the first one hit either, so she had to have felt a disturbance in the force. I’m not saying she was stupid about it, just that she’s not strong in it.”
www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4S_e4YcG3M
According to this Plow, Mundi, Allie, Obi-Wan, and Aayla were all blindsided by Order 66. In other words, every single council member that was shown on screen except for Yoda had NO warring that Order 66 was coming until either after the clones had taken aim or opened fire. Aayla actually falls under the former category; Obi-Wan, Plow, and Allie are in the latter.
The ONLY person that has a demonstrated reaction to Order 66 is Yoda. That makes HIM the exceptionally perceptice one instead of a particular example of faiilure on Aayla’s part.
Sauro, the plot armor issues aside its still a decent show in some cases
and OriginalA is right Yoda is the only one that really reacts to it.
speaking of Yoda is there a Yoda Darth Maul fight on here? if not maybe we should suggest it
“speaking of Yoda is there a Yoda Darth Maul fight on here? if not maybe we should suggest it ”
Yeah there is, but Maul would get slaughtered it would be lulzy.
ah okay I was just curious, I’m assuming its was a stomp in Yoda’s favor?
so is it mostly agreed that Maul will win this fight mostly no matter what?
“I still think Aayla’s biggest draw back is her apparent inability to detect the clones were about to do what they did. She wasn’t the first one hit either, so she had to have felt a disturbance in the force. I’m not saying she was stupid about it, just that she’s not strong in it.”
The execution of SO66 was more or less simultaneous throughout the galaxy. She can’t feel the disturbance until it happens, and at that point she still would not know that the disturbance meant the clones were shooting Jedi, until of course, her clones started shooting her.
Again, Special Order 66 was deliberately designed to blindside the Jedi by a Sith Lord who had years of work invested into the preparations for it – decades of work building up to that one instant – the issue and execution of Special Order 66. That SO66 did, in fact, blindside the Jedi, should not be taken as an indication that a particular Jedi is below average in terms of the Force because they did not see SO66 coming.
well that doesn’t explain Yoda though…he didn’t exactly just decide to see if the clones were going to shoot him. and it wasn’t all simultaneous because later on he felt the pain of their deaths
So we can chalk up lack of precog for Order 66 as PIS?
personally I think so in most of those cases.
Darth Maul win this with EU or not
also Darth Maul look menacing and having cool tattoo also killed by Obi Wan
Ayla while not bad killed by Clone trooper
“Ayla while not bad killed by Clone trooper”
which is not awesome compared to darth Maul killed by Oh bee One
also in Aayla defense that clone did the “doublethink technique” and they just folllowing order so the clones have no Grudge to Aayla, which makes her totally unaware of her impending doom…..
pardon my english
Yeah, we all get it, Darth Maul had little screen time and what little he did have was spent having carefully choreographed duels. He still fought extremely arrogantly (a character flaw that is exploitable by the rules), defensively (much of his fight is him blocking attacks while the tag team Obi/Jinn team stupidly attacked in a pattern that allowed him to block easily. He was also pushed back constantly. He never once gained any footing until he fought them one on one, and even when he removed Obi Wan from the fight for the first time in the catwalk area, Jinn still pushed him back through the forcefields.), and stupidly (being a dumbass at the end being covered by the arrogance point, he also didn’t really push any advantage he had. He didn’t take advantage of his unique weapon to its fullest capabilities when he fought a single enemy. And his fighting style is generally all flash and no substance).
Personally I don’t think he is all what he is hyped up to be. Yeah, he was cool, but the Rule of Cool only goes so far against Fridge Logic.
Aayla, on the other hand, is clear headed, quick, and has bouts of awesomeness. It is a pity she doesn’t get more screen time.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyWLph6c-Ww#t=18m31s
Also Darth Maul’s death was not awesome. He was an idiot and he died like one because of his own idiocy since he didn’t actually kill the person trying to kill him. Although I will admit there is a bit of irony there. Maul had the high ground and Obi Wan beat him by jumping over him. I guess when RotS came around Obi Wan knew to press his high ground advantage and cut Anakin out of the air before he could complete the jump, turn around, and laterally bisect Obi Wan, as Obi Wan did to Maul.
If you want an awesome death in Star Wars you have to go either with Obi Wan’s death, because it is awesome in its own dignified way, or Heavy’s.
“…you have to go either with…”
That really should be “…I would have to go with either…” as it is my opinion and I accidentally stated it as fact. Also I misspelled Hevy’s name. Oops.
well when you look at the movies there’s only so much they can do with the lightsaber battles compared to the EU where he has been shown to have a surprisingly effective style
@OriginalA
You are right about Maul’s stupidity, after all, he could of just force pushed Obi-wan down the abyss but instead he decided to play with his victim. We still should take into consideration that he killed a Jedi master and almost killed Obi-wan while fighting arrogantly and stupidly.
Unfortunately, the fight scenes in novels and cartoons always tend to be better and show off more skill purely because you aren’t dealing with live action, so we shouldn’t hold that against him.
agreed the novels and cartoons are much better for referencing many characters abilities
“Give Maul credit, he took on two Jedi masters evenly and even took the time to meditate mid-battle.”
Yes, very true. And the only reason he lost the duel was because he got cocky.
**ADD-ON**So, I’d say this goes to Maul, and even as a child he was able to kill the Jedi Master, Manka whom was one of the greatest Jedi warriors during this time. To be honest, I can’t see how Aayla can win this, she never received as brutal training as Maul did, not to mention the fact that Maul mastered one of the most vicious forms of lightsaber combat — unless she used to be a Sith, which to my knowledge she was not.
“Give Maul credit, he took on two Jedi masters evenly and even took the time to meditate mid-battle.”
@Asger *EDIT* Well, despite Maul’s high prowess of lightsaber combat, he was facing a Jedi Master and Apprentice, but Obi-Wan was more than ready for Master status.
“So, I’d say this goes to Maul, and even as a child he was able to kill the Jedi Master, Manka whom was one of the greatest Jedi warriors during this time.”
And said Jedi Master was armed with a wooden stick while Maul had a lightsaber. Manka still managed to unbalance Maul.
“she never received as brutal training as Maul did”
The brutality of the training means nothing. The quality of it means everything. Considering that Maul is characterized with arrogance, sloppiness, wastefulness, and impatience means that his training probably wasn’t of a very high caliber. Aayla, on the other hand, is calm, composed, forward looking, and understanding.
Consider the fact that Maul’s main form realize on psychological attacks as much as physical ones (at least according to wookipedia), he probably won’t make much head way with that avenue of attack against a Jedi Master who is shown to be fairly level headed. If he can’t get inside her head then he has to rely on brute force. If that doesn’t work then he can’t win. On the flip side, Aayla is trained in three different styles of combat that are not reliant on any single tactic. If her fast strike style doesn’t work then she can switch to her style that emphasises strong attacks and parries. If that doesn’t work than she can fall back on her dual bladed style. It is worth mentioning that the style she is strongest in is the same style that Obi-Won used to kill Maul with.
“not to mention the fact that Maul mastered one of the most vicious forms of lightsaber combat”
Said combat style actually encourages him to be emotionally unstable and open to psychological attacks. Considering his already mounting character flaws, I don’t see how this is beneficial.
“Obi-Wan was more than ready for Master status.”
Knight status actually. Aayla is the Master here.
to be honest the movie exaggerates those traits so he’ll lose, wookiepedia also shows he has a fairly tactical mind normally. and Obi-Wan being knight or master is a bit moot as he still held two skilled Jedi off and without much more experience was capable of pushing Vader into using desperation tactics
“Obi-Wan being knight or master is a bit moot”
Okay, first of all, the use of the word “moot” in that manner means that it is “debatable”. It isn’t. He was a padawan soon-to-be Kngiht. He wouldn’t be a Master for another 10 years. End of discussion.
Um.. yeah that is an important point. Unless you are going to suggest that someone like Ahsoka Tano is equally capable as Yoda then the distinction between Padawan (which Obi-Wan was at the current time), Knight (which Obi-Wan was ready for at that current time), and Master (which Obi-Wan would spend the next ten years in preparation for) do matter significantly.
More over, those jedi were still in their peacekeeper personas. It wouldn’t be until the Clone Wars till they are retrained for war. The Jedi during the Clone Wars could mop the floor with the Jedi peacekeepers of Qui-Gon’s era. While they mostly overlap, you still have people like Ahsoka, a mere padawan, that acts as a (pardon the pun) force multiplier against people like Ventress. Ventress herself, a mere apprentice, is skilled enough to take out any single Jedi Master including Council Members, save Yoda and perhaps Windu. So now you have apprentices and padawans that are being emphasized in combat rather than diplomacy and peacekeeping (Ahsoka wondered if she could even function in a peacekeeping role without resorting to heavy handed violence). The most of the other jedi also had to study strategy and combat in order to deal with the crisis of the clone wars (that is mostly a guess, but I somehow doubt that space combat tactics, army strategy, and troop deployment tactics are in the regular jedi curriculum and the rank of general does imply certain strategical/tactical combat know how). Qui-Gon Jinn stated to Amidala that despite everything he “can’t fight a war for [her]” and yet in the Clone Wars that is exactly what the Jedi are expected to do and, for the most part, succeed in doing.
Aayla has something that Maul is desperately lacking: actual combat experience.
And I’m not fully convinced that the doppleganger was really Maul. It is a rather murky subject.
I meant it was debatable if it really mattered if he was about to be a knight or not, my bad. and it is a big difference I know. there’s no way Ahsoka could take Yoda.
and its true the era changed greatly for Jedi, not to mention Qui-Gon had different Force beliefs than some of the others but thats not really anything to effect his combat.
lacking combat experience? I presume you mean massive battlefield combat yes? he was Palpatines assassin for most of his life. He fought Sith and Jedi alike and took everything they dished out when you look at the EU, which I’m not even talking the ressurected version here I’m talking before Obi-Wan got lucky. Maul actually showed incredible tactical ability in his fights with Jedi and Sith, he was just too impulsive and impatient which got exaggerated in the movie so that he would lose to a Padawan that may not have had half his actual dueling experience Maul was one of the very few serious lightsaber duels up to that point not counting sparring. Now after that he became a very combat experienced Jedi but up to the actual battle with Maul he didn’t have many serious to the death duels. and also there is some PIS in that when Maul had him in that pit instead of using a second force push he tried to use sparks to make him lose his grip. if I’m mistaking CIS and PIS again my bad but that seems like PIS to me.
“I’m not even talking the ressurected version here”
Not in post 91, but you were citing it when you mentioned Maul’s fight against Vader in post 89.
“he tried to use sparks to make him lose his grip”
Honestly, I consider that as more taunting than legitimate efforts to cause Obi-Wan to fall. I mean, Obi-Wan had to be thinking that here he was, over a bottomless pit, without a weapon, no back up, no high ground advantage, and his enemy is just dicking around and sneering at him. If Maul was a mute trickster instead of a viscous arrogant warrior I would have expected a victory dance that ended with a raspberry. It fits his fighting style as well (the taunting, not the impish victory dance idea).
And it was a mixed bag of PIS and CIS that allowed Obi-Wan to win. Maul had existing character flaws, as the EU points out. The PIS exacerbated them.
agreed without the PIS, which I think was the using sparks thing since in the EU fights he seemed to not taunt much unless he was about to kill blow. but taunting or not PIS is what caused things to go bad for him. but it says on Wookiepedia that it was to make him loose his grip.
Just to specify: I think the PIS that allowed Obi-Wan to win was Maul’s surprised reaction to Obi-Wan’s leap. That fatal delay between observation and reaction to it. And referencing back to the Anikan/Obi-Wan fight in RotS, it is Obi-Wan’s lack of hesitancy in a similar, but reversed, situation that wins him that fight.
agreed, either way though Maul lost do to having to Obi-Wan having already been used in movies coming after this so he had to survive.
“I don’t remember much of them in the series, are they OP or UP? I’m guessing UP since they’re supposed to be like Jedi killers… also wtf is with those Assassin droids?”
They miraculously can’t hit shit against any named jedi.. and don’t use their shields in the same instances.
When the plot calls for it they remember to use their shields though, and the main characters won’t even DARE try to fight them, thus denying them a path or something.
I’m gonna be honest. Darth Maul…Is overrated. His combined track record against force users in both canon and EU pretty much have him outright losing. The only two wins he really only has under his belt are against Qui-Gon, and some fat alien who was force-sensitive. Bottom line:Aayla would most likely win against the sith’s best jobber.
@Atma
uhm what EU were you reading? he took down for sure one Master Padawan team the same level as Obi and Qui-Gon. and they had a force well to tap into causing the padawan to be able to duel Maul evenly and she still had to pull a suicide move blowing the place up to try and finish Maul off and he still escaped to start hunting the afore mentioned Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon not too mention a reclusive male Twi’lek capable of winning saber duels with a wooden staff was defeated by Maul and. and Silus the fat guy with no lightsaber, Maul was unable to use his saber either and Silus was powerful enough in the force to catch Sidious’s attention. after starting to lose Maul summoned his rage beat the pulp out of Silus and then used the force to overload the machine blocking energy weapons and then used his saber to decapitate the defeated in Hand To Hand and force combat foe. that fight shows that he can fight even unarmed. I wouldn’t hold it against him personally.
oh wait my bad it was a speeder bike explosion that the Jedi used to try and kill Maul, but he still only got minor injuries while the skilled master was killed.
“Time to piss people off and ask if we’re using EU or movie canon?”
I imagine it must be EU…Even if the rules state otherwise.
“I presume that we are using both unless any EU contradicts the movies as that’s how it usually goes.”
That isn’t how it usually goes. Movie-verse comes first as the source canon and default universe. Only when the match OP actually calls for EU does it come into play. OR if a specific character is solely from the EU. You are right though that if the EU source contradicts it’s thrown out.
“Now, I only saw Phantom Menace once (Because it was, you know Phantom Menace) but I thought it was Obi Wan wgo was geting pssy about the force-field.
But again, only saw it once so I’m quite likely wrong.”
Maul got pissy and Obi meditated.
“Darth Maul appears to be the superior duelist of the two going by the manner in which he fights and the fact that, going by EU if allowed, held his ground very well against Lord Vader.
”
It was pure PIS that Vader even won if we’re looking at the reincarnated Maul Vs Vader fight.
“wait…what…? Maul fought Vader? that would be against movie canon and then not usable right? i mean the books can claim he didn’t die all they want, but the movie portrayed the death of him for certain. not that i have a reason Aayla Secura would win anyways…”
Yes but IIRC the movies don’t include both combatants so I think we would be forced to use EU here. Or at least enough for usable feats.
“No, he survived the fall and got a cybernetic bottom half. He only lost because Vader was willing to shove his own lightsaber through himself..”
I think you’re looking at the wrong fight. ’cause Maul’s come back twice IIRC. Cyber Maul and “healed” Maul.
“. however fighting Darth Vader is canon, as it was a clone or something.”
something to do with Sith alchemy and a group of Sith that wanted to overthrow Palpatine and Vader using Maul. It failed.
“resurrected through Sith Alchemy or…”
this…
“Officially it is a resurrected version of Darth Maul not a clone, but I and many Star Wars fans still call it a clone cuz they don’t really explain the resurrection.”
EU Fan-fiction worthy fanwank…