ARMD-01 Vs Pillar of Autumn

ARMD-01 Vs Pillar of Autumn

Suggested by Enoirin

Making it’s debut on FactPile is the ARMD-01 of Macross up against the Pillar of Autumn from Halo.

What should make for an interesting topic of discussion, we have the what appears to be a stomp in Halo’s favor up against a great carrier of weaponry for the Macross side.

When these two titans collide, which one will survive?

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102 Comments on "ARMD-01 Vs Pillar of Autumn"

  1. Fire grot tim March 29, 2011 at 7:59 am -      #1

    Hmmmmmm……….. I will have to look up armds weaponry to make a choice.

  2. Fire grot tim March 29, 2011 at 8:04 am -      #2

    5 x guided converging beam cannon system
    many x small anti-aircraft beam weaponry
    2 x large forty-meter-long (approximately) automatic anti-celestrial-object anti-ship missile launchers (mounted dorsal starboard and dorsal port)
    6 x large automatic guided anti-ship missile launchers.

    So armd is only 400 some meters long compared to the 1000meter pillar of autumn.
    But what could the weapons of the ARMD do to pillar? I will leave that to a macross fan

  3. Belisaurius March 29, 2011 at 8:55 am -      #3

    The ARMD class ship is a little more than a box with some guns attach. It’s tiny, flimsy, undergunned, sluggish, and entirely useless in combat. These guys went up first against the zentradi and couldn’t even put up a fight against the scouts. Really, a VF-1 is more of a threat.

  4. Fire grot tim March 29, 2011 at 8:58 am -      #4

    ……. Were they the ships in the first episode that took out like 2 zentradi then got assraped?

  5. Belisaurius March 29, 2011 at 9:36 am -      #5

    Yep, two on three with the support of a swarm of SF-3A Lancer IIs and they had to use all the missiles they had.

  6. Enoirin March 29, 2011 at 9:41 am -      #6

    “The ARMD class ship is a little more than a box with some guns attach. It’s tiny, flimsy, undergunned, sluggish, and entirely useless in combat. These guys went up first against the zentradi and couldn’t even put up a fight against the scouts. Really, a VF-1 is more of a threat.”

    Did you not watch the first episode of SDFM?! The ARMD class carriers were very effective combat vessels, between their considerable armament (most notably their large anti-ship reaction warheads), greater maneuverability (compared to most other Macross ships, including the Zentradi scouts) and considerable fighter craft compliment (which can all be armed with reaction warheads as well) they make for quite a formidable warship. Also, its small size is an advantage, it’ll have a much, much smaller target cross-section than what the PoA is accustomed to dealing with.

    Here’s a little snippet from M3:

    “Both ARMD-01 and ARMD-02 were destroyed in the first battle of Space War I on February 7, 2009. However, both vessels engaged in combat with the Zentradi fleet and proved quite successful in destroying several large Zentradi capital warships with their anti-ship reaction warheads. Eventually, six more vessels of the ARMD Class were commissioned and both the original ships were replaced. To this day, ARMD-01 and ARMD-02 remain docked with the SDF-1 Macross on Earth.”

    Here’s the clip with the ARMD carriers engaging the small Zentradi fleet: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WW069vEIxM#t=5m30s

    Man! Just look at how many SF-3A Lancer II are just pouring out them!

    Also if you pay attention, at around 6:40 into it, you’ll notice that those “sluggish” little ships were able to dodge incoming beam weapons (which also implies that they were at quite a great distance away from the firing vessel(s), but still quite impressive). And when they finally get what’s comin’ to them, you’ll notice they don’t spontaneously explode into a cloud of debris after being fired upon. Sure, they were mission-killed, but at least they didn’t go out like a fucking Leo or one of the MF carriers.

    “……. Were they the ships in the first episode that took out like 2 zentradi then got assraped?”

    They were outnumbered, but they still managed to take out several Zentradi warships with their large anti-ship reaction missiles. It’s pretty understandable that they got “assraped” after the return fire, I mean, damn, they were taking on a small fleet of warships and there was only two ARMD class carriers. That’s pretty ballsy of the Spacy. Of course the Spacy really didn’t have any idea how massive the Zentradi armada truly was at the time.

  7. Michael50210 March 29, 2011 at 10:13 am -      #7

    Hey, is Halo actually winning?

    From the sound of it, the carrier is, basically, a piece of crap. That sum it up?

  8. Enoirin March 29, 2011 at 10:27 am -      #8

    Just by eyeballing it, I can tell you that the vessels the ARMD carriers engaged were Thurvel-Salan class battleships, as in the 2.3 kilometer long mainstay warships of the Zentradi armada, I didn’t see any actual Pickets (as in the actual scout ships), but they were probably off-screen. Oh, and Britai’s Nupetiet-Vergnitzs, the biggest and most badass of all conventional Zentradi warships.

    You don’t go up against Britai’s Nupetiet-Vergnitzs and survive unless your ship is called the “SDF-1 Macross” (obvious joke is obvious).

    “From the sound of it, the carrier is, basically, a piece of crap. That sum it up?”

    Perhaps through the eyes of Belisaurius, sure. :-P

  9. Michael50210 March 29, 2011 at 10:46 am -      #9

    I smell an absolute sh*t-fest on the horizon… Plus, the smell of spicy popcorn chicken

  10. Eric Gigliotti March 29, 2011 at 11:06 am -      #10

    “Also, its small size is an advantage, it’ll have a much, much smaller target cross-section than what the PoA is accustomed to dealing with”

    I don’t think it matters with a ship-board AI controlling weapons.

    As for the weapons of the PoA, it has its MAC cannon which can fire 3 successive MAC rounds on one charge. It carries 300 Archer Missile Pods (a single pod holds 30 Archer missiles). A single Archer missile can destroy/disable all but the most heavily armored UNSC ships. The PoA can fire 9000 of them.

    It also has 30 megaton nuclear missiles and 50mm point defense auto cannons.

  11. Enoirin March 29, 2011 at 11:07 am -      #11

    “I smell an absolute sh*t-fest on the horizon”

    What? Between me and Belisaurius? That’d actually be a first.

    “Plus, the smell of spicy popcorn chicken”

    That is so not fair. I love things that are popcorn and chicken and spicy. :-(

  12. Michael50210 March 29, 2011 at 11:07 am -      #12

    And Longsword. They might not help much, but they still exist.

  13. Michael50210 March 29, 2011 at 11:12 am -      #13

    Hey, so do I. I’m hungry now.

  14. Enoirin March 29, 2011 at 11:23 am -      #14

    “I don’t think it matters with a ship-board AI controlling weapons.”

    That doesn’t make any sense. Just because something is AI controlled doesn’t automatically guarantee a hit will be scored, especially at extreme range with something like an unguided MAC round and a maneuvering target.

    “It carries 300 Archer Missile Pods (a single pod holds 30 Archer missiles). A single Archer missile can destroy/disable all but the most heavily armored UNSC ships. The PoA can fire 9000 of them.”

    That’s a lot a missiles. How effective they would be depends though. If they’re only armed with sub-ton (or even sub-kiloton) HE warheads, then they’d probably not do more than scratch the ARMD’s paint job, but if they’re actually 20 kiloton warheads (like Johnny had suggested they might be) then they would most certainly be a credible threat. A very credible threat.

    “It also has 30 megaton nuclear missiles”

    This one’s definitely a biggie here. That should be able to take out the ARMD if it detonates at an extremely close proximity (a contact detonation would guarantee a kill, I’d wager).

    “And Longsword. They might not help much, but they still exist.”

    Yeah, I don’t think they’d stand much of a chance against the ARMD’s SF-3A Lancer II (78), QF-3000E Ghost (270) and VF-1 (unknown number of these) compliment (which can all be armed with anti-ship reaction warheads).

  15. Michael50210 March 29, 2011 at 11:26 am -      #15

    Maybe a Longsword could carry one of those nukes and suicide ram the ARMD.

  16. Eric Gigliotti March 29, 2011 at 11:33 am -      #16

    “That doesn’t make any sense. Just because something is AI controlled doesn’t automatically guarantee a hit will be scored, especially at extreme range with something like an unguided MAC round and a maneuvering target.”

    An unguided MAC round, no. But the Archer missiles, yes. The AI does give an increased chance tor a hit though.

    “How effective they would be depends though.”

    Not exactly a numbers guy, but a quote from Halo: Contact Harvest says, “A single Archer missile can disable all but the most heavily-armored UNSC ships.” Marathon-class cruisers are the biggest and most heavily defended; they have 191cm Titanium-A hulls. There are no numbers on titanium-a except we know its stronger than regular titanium. The armor of PoA can take 5 plasma torpedoes (a single plasma torpedo slags most UNSC ships).

  17. Enoirin March 29, 2011 at 11:38 am -      #17

    “Maybe a Longsword could carry one of those nukes and suicide ram the ARMD.”

    Maybe a VF-1 could carry 6 RMS-1 large anti-ship reaction warheads, launch them at the PoA and take it out. :-P

    Seriously, the VF-1 can have up to 6 of these bad boys fixed to their hard points; www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1a-valkyrie.htm

    Their yield is likely in the megaton range, given the yield of the Varauta flagship’s reaction warheads (www.macross2.net/m3/macross7/varauta-fleetflagship.htm ). Small warheads are 20-100 kilotons.

    “An unguided MAC round, no. But the Archer missiles, yes. The AI does give an increased chance tor a hit though.”

    Was just sayin’, dude.

    “Not exactly a numbers guy, but a quote from Halo: Contact Harvest says, “A single Archer missile can disable all but the most heavily-armored UNSC ships.” Marathon-class cruisers are the biggest and most heavily defended; they have 191cm Titanium-A hulls. There are no numbers on titanium-a except we know its stronger than regular titanium. The armor of PoA can take 5 plasma torpedoes (a single plasma torpedo slags most UNSC ships).”

    Well, this doesn’t really tell us anything, really. :-P

  18. Michael50210 March 29, 2011 at 11:39 am -      #18

    ” The armor of PoA can take 5 plasma torpedoes ”
    I think she took a lot more than that. She was doing overtime, remember?

  19. Galorian March 29, 2011 at 1:23 pm -      #19

    Whe don’t even know if any of those torpedoes scored a direct hit on the PoA, but I doubt it.

    Covenant plasma torps are known to gut UNSC ships with a single hit, and having one merely pass next to a titanium A armor plating is sufficiant to boil away its surface area.

    If memory serves Cortana had stated that the PoA had lost 90% of its armor plating before its MAC was disabled. Given the power of the weapons involved, the seemingly superficial damage to the ship itself and the fact the PoA’s propultion system, power system, and internal structure were all mostly intact for MC’s escape and captain Keys’ landing maneuver, I think it is far more likely that the PoA suffered only glancing blows that grazed along its armor.

  20. Paramedic March 29, 2011 at 2:44 pm -      #20

    Pillar of Autumn: Halcyon-Cruiser
    Manufacturer: Reyes-McLees Shipyards

    Dimensions:
    Length 1,170 metres (3,800 ft)
    Width 352 metres (1,150 ft)
    Height/depth 414 metres (1,360 ft)

    Armament:
    Magnetic Accelerator Cannon (1)
    Shiva Missiles (4)
    Archer missile pods (6)
    50mm point defense guns (6)

    Roles:
    Naval Engagements (combat)
    Troop Carrier/ Supply Carrier/ Escort

    Hull:
    Resistant to around 5 Plasma Torpedoes/Titanium-A battle plate

    Shields:
    None

    Sensory Systems:
    Radar
    Spectroscopes

    Targeting systems:
    Equipped

    Slipspace drive:
    Shaw-Fujikawa Translight Engine (FTL)

    Power plant:
    Mk. II Deuterium fusion reactors

    Refitted Halcyon Cruisers have the following:
    One upgraded MAC Cannon capable of firing 3 rounds in quick succession
    300 Archer Missile Pods which were arranged in thirty columns and ten rows. Each pod contained 26 individual devices, equaling 7800 missiles[6].
    Four Shiva Nuclear Warheads. One of these missiles was disguised as a Longsword fighter, which could be remote controlled.
    Forty 50mm MLA Auto-cannons with overlapping fields of fire for point defense against single ships

    Hopes that helps some guys.

  21. Eric Gigliotti March 29, 2011 at 4:18 pm -      #21

    @ Galorian

    I agree with you. There is no way a UNSC ship can withstand a direct plasma torpedo. I can see a cruiser like a Halcyon or Marathon – 191 cm of Titanium-A is a lot of metal – doing it. Once. But not 5. The Halcyon cruisers (PoA) have been known to have lost 90% of their hull in battle but were still combat effective.

    Even still, 5 plasma torpedoes at 100 meters off is very impressive considering the sheer temperature of them.

  22. BC March 29, 2011 at 6:25 pm -      #22

    Has it ever been clarified whether the archer missiles are conventional or nuclear? The web based information talks around the question without actually answering it, they just say that they are very lackluster weapons that need to be used in huge swarms to be really effective.

    The ARMD is indeed a box, a heavily armored box stuffed with an incredible amount of weapons for its size. While ARMD 01 only lasted about 30 seconds against the zentradi fleet it was taking a literal rain of of fire from heavy beam weapons. The inside shots show that a relatively few beams penetrated through the ship compared to the amount shown striking the outside which indicates extremely good performance of the armor, it just cannot take hundreds or thousands of capital ship gun hits in half a minute.

    While PoA can fire swarms of archer missiles the ARMD can do the same thing with high yield reaction missiles, missiles that are not known for underwhelming performance.

  23. Fire grot tim March 29, 2011 at 6:28 pm -      #23

    What about the autumn tanking two or three Energy projecters, that ripped a carrier in half? If im right carriers are 3000m long.

  24. I-speak-braille March 29, 2011 at 7:16 pm -      #24

    “That doesn’t make any sense. Just because something is AI controlled doesn’t automatically guarantee a hit will be scored, especially at extreme range with something like an unguided MAC round and a maneuvering target.”

    Usually it does. Smart A.I. are infamous for their ability to hack systems and use a warship’s weapon systems to full potential. To my understanding, all command ships have A.I.. The UNSC go through alot of trouble making sure a MAC will find its mark since a missed shot hitting a planet is one of their greatest fears. If the space battles in halo are an indication, MAC’s rarely ever miss A.I. or not.

    “Not exactly a numbers guy, but a quote from Halo: Contact Harvest says, “A single Archer missile can disable all but the most heavily-armored UNSC ships.” Marathon-class cruisers are the biggest and most heavily defended; they have 191cm Titanium-A hulls. There are no numbers on titanium-a except we know its stronger than regular titanium. The armor of PoA can take 5 plasma torpedoes (a single plasma torpedo slags most UNSC ships).”

    Plasma torpedos are in the megatons. They gut near anything but halcyon, marathan, and battlecruiser class warships. And even then said ships take plenty of damage from it. It’s a solid example of a UNSC warship’s durability. Hey why do we always use the pillar of autumn? Why don’t we just say “Halcyon class warshp” instead of using a specifically named ship?

  25. Fire grot tim March 29, 2011 at 7:25 pm -      #25

    Because the autumn is modified to the point of being a completely different class of ship. What other halcyon could take out ships the size of an assault carrier?

  26. Enoirin March 29, 2011 at 8:26 pm -      #26

    “Usually it does. Smart A.I. are infamous for their ability to hack systems and use a warship’s weapon systems to full potential. To my understanding, all command ships have A.I.. The UNSC go through alot of trouble making sure a MAC will find its mark since a missed shot hitting a planet is one of their greatest fears. If the space battles in halo are an indication, MAC’s rarely ever miss A.I. or not. ”

    AI or not, it’ll depend on the range at which the MAC round is fired, its velocity relative to the ARMD and how long it takes the ARMD to detect and commence emergency maneuvers (considering they were able to detect and dodge the Zentradi beam spam (at least it for a short time before they were overwhelmed) it wouldn’t be impossible for them to maneuver out of the path of the MAC round).

  27. Galorian March 30, 2011 at 12:34 am -      #27

    Dodging a MAC round traveling at 12,000 km/s should be a walk in the park for a ship capable of dodging beam weapons traveling at 300,000 km/s.

    Looks like the PoA is going to have to rely on its missile compliment to hit the ARMD-01…

  28. TheSorrow March 30, 2011 at 2:42 am -      #28

    They made some serious error when making the calculations for the MAC guns. I mean when you look at the books they have ships engaging light seconds from each other yet they claim that by the time the round leaves the ship it’s already too late to maneuver.

  29. OriginalA March 30, 2011 at 3:55 am -      #29

    “I mean when you look at the books they have ships engaging light seconds from each other yet they claim that by the time the round leaves the ship it’s already too late to maneuver.”

    This just means that their ships are slower than snails. In addition to that the special move that Captain Keys created (Keys Loop) depended on the gravity of a near by star to boost their speed, which wouldn’t matter, or at least be negligible, if their ships could pull decent acceleration.

  30. TheSorrow March 30, 2011 at 4:05 am -      #30

    “This just means that their ships are slower than snails. In addition to that the special move that Captain Keys created (Keys Loop) depended on the gravity of a near by star to boost their speed, which wouldn’t matter, or at least be negligible, if their ships could pull decent acceleration.”

    Damn creators have no idea what they are talking about. I mean even one light second between two ships and it would take the round 25 seconds to reach it’s target. That is a long time for a ship to move out of the way.

  31. man March 30, 2011 at 4:14 am -      #31

    Then a Battlecruiser smashed right into both ships, wrecking them both.
    But seriously,
    Let’s make the ARMD take on the Terran Battlecruiser.

    About the match, how maneuverable are both ships?

  32. TheSorrow March 30, 2011 at 4:18 am -      #32

    “About the match, how maneuverable are both ships?”

    Apparently the Pillar of Autumn isn’t that maneuverable at all since it can’t move out of the path of a round only going 12000 km/s.

  33. man March 30, 2011 at 4:24 am -      #33

    Then how about we have both ships ram each other at light speed?

  34. BC March 30, 2011 at 4:44 am -      #34

    ” About the match, how maneuverable are both ships? ”

    The ARMD is surprisingly nimble, the two were dodging fire from the zentradi beam weapons for a few seconds until ARMD 01 got hit and it stopped dodging as well as it was and got pounded. ARMD 02 kept up the dodging pretty well though until it tried to dock with SDF-1 and then it got hit with the small version of the converging beam cannons which took it out fairly rapidly.

  35. hotshot March 30, 2011 at 9:12 am -      #35

    “They made some serious error when making the calculations for the MAC guns. I mean when you look at the books they have ships engaging light seconds from each other yet they claim that by the time the round leaves the ship it’s already too late to maneuver.”

    When did you ever heard of UNSC ship fights at light seconds?

  36. Eric Gigliotti March 30, 2011 at 10:02 am -      #36

    “Apparently the Pillar of Autumn isn’t that maneuverable at all since it can’t move out of the path of a round only going 12000 km/s.”

    I recall the PoA dodging the Covenant beam weapon. The weapon which travels so close to the speed of light, Cortana could not even calculate its exact speed. But the PoA cant be too nimble.

  37. Galorian March 30, 2011 at 12:18 pm -      #37

    Sounds like Covenant AIs are lousy shots…

    What do you guys think of a PoA vs Normandy SR2 match?

  38. Eric Gigliotti March 30, 2011 at 12:31 pm -      #38

    “Sounds like Covenant AIs are lousy shots…”

    Cortana actually watched the charge build up and fired emergency thrusters at the right second – too soon and the Covies would just readjust their aim and too late the PoA would not exist anymore. But it still shows the PoA can jump out of the way of incredibly fast weapons.

  39. Lowk March 30, 2011 at 12:46 pm -      #39

    “What do you guys think of a PoA vs Normandy SR2 match?”

    It sounds good as long as its just those two ships and not any of the fighters aboard the PoA. But I recommend either waiting for me3, its hinted that they might have a third Normandy(or upgraded the previous). Or put Normandy without “SR2″ so it won’t be limited to its past incarnation.

  40. Galorian March 30, 2011 at 1:30 pm -      #40

    @Eric
    figured it’ll be something like that.

    @Lowk
    Figured Normandy starts the match in stealth mode to balance out PoA’s fighter compliment. You’re right about waiting on ME3 though.

    We really aught to find a good match for Sovereign once we get some more info on Reaper capabilities in ME3.

  41. TheSorrow March 30, 2011 at 2:30 pm -      #41

    “When did you ever heard of UNSC ship fights at light seconds?”

    Light travels at nearly 300,000 kilometers per second, do you think they fight Covenant ships that close to each other?

  42. Eric Gigliotti March 30, 2011 at 4:21 pm -      #42

    100,000 km is extreme range for Covenant-UNSC engagements.

  43. TheSorrow March 30, 2011 at 4:41 pm -      #43

    Well that’s just sad…

  44. Fire grot tim March 30, 2011 at 5:24 pm -      #44

    What? The range of combat?

  45. BC March 30, 2011 at 7:31 pm -      #45

    The MAC slug itself would have unlimited range, but hitting anything with a giant cannonball becomes increasingly difficult with range, especially when trying to aim at a moving target as small as a ship with lightspeed sensors. If using active lightspeed sensors (like radar) it is even worse, even at 100,000km the computer is trying to guess where the target will be about 1.3 seconds from firing using data from at least a third of a second before and the target ship has already had two thirds of a second warning from radar intercept so may be maneuvering already be at max deltaV. It does not sound like much but it can make a big difference.

  46. Fire grot tim March 30, 2011 at 7:43 pm -      #46

    But dont forget the autumn fires three smaller shredder rounds. So couldnt each progressive round Be aimed slightly different to increase the chances of a hit?

  47. TheSorrow March 30, 2011 at 7:51 pm -      #47

    “So couldnt each progressive round Be aimed slightly different to increase the chances of a hit?”

    Unlikely, each round is fired in rapid succession of the last, like a Battle Rifle.

  48. Fire grot tim March 30, 2011 at 7:58 pm -      #48

    Thank you, i wasnt sure if it was a timed fire by the AI or the burst.

  49. TheSorrow March 30, 2011 at 8:01 pm -      #49

    Yep the rapid fire capability of the MAC gun is what the PoA counts on to successfully damage a Covenant ship or at least make it more difficult to recover.

  50. Eric Gigliotti March 30, 2011 at 8:02 pm -      #50

    “Unlikely, each round is fired in rapid succession of the last, like a Battle Rifle.”

    Wut? Since when? The PoA has fired only single MAC rounds before. In fact, I don’t recall the PoA ever firing all 3 rounds that its capable of.

  51. Fire grot tim March 30, 2011 at 8:07 pm -      #51

    …… I have the book, i will look real quick ok?

  52. TheSorrow March 30, 2011 at 8:08 pm -      #52

    “Wut? Since when? The PoA has fired only single MAC rounds before. In fact, I don’t recall the PoA ever firing all 3 rounds that its capable of.”

    Maybe I read that wrong, but I was almost certain that it could fire one after another fast. I mean it says that Pillar of Autumn is capable of firing 3 rounds per charge.

  53. Eric Gigliotti March 30, 2011 at 8:12 pm -      #53

    “Maybe I read that wrong, but I was almost certain that it could fire one after another fast. I mean it says that Pillar of Autumn is capable of firing 3 rounds per charge.”

    It is. But it doesn’t have to.

  54. Fire grot tim March 30, 2011 at 8:15 pm -      #54

    “The pillar of autumns MAC gun fired three times. Thunder roiled up from the ventral decks. Archer missiles snaked through space toward the covenant frigate on the starboard edge of the enemy formation” well it fired a three round ” burst ” at a covenant frigate.

  55. TheSorrow March 30, 2011 at 8:16 pm -      #55

    “It is. But it doesn’t have to.”

    You think it would be in their best interests since they do not want to give the Covenant a chance to have their shields to recharge.

  56. Fire grot tim March 30, 2011 at 8:29 pm -      #56

    Because im too lasy to quote the rest, the third round breaks the shield and then guts the ship. So yes it takes three or so rounds to break a cov shield.

  57. Enoirin March 30, 2011 at 9:06 pm -      #57

    “If using active lightspeed sensors”

    This would be a disadvantage, especially seeing as how the ARMD class seem to make use of cross-dimensional radar (FTL sensors).

    The biggest advantage the PoA would have here is its slipspace drive, as the ARMD class as it was during its initial roll out wasn’t fitted with any fold drive (though it was designed with the intention of having a drive installed and most likely the later constructed versions, such as the ones that are often docked with the Macross class vessels(mass produced version of the SDF-1 Macross), would have a fold drive installed). Though given the limitations of human slipspace drives the advantages this entails is, well, limited.

  58. BC March 30, 2011 at 10:57 pm -      #58

    ” This would be a disadvantage, especially seeing as how the ARMD class seem to make use of cross-dimensional radar (FTL sensors). ”

    True, the ARMD would have an additional one third of a second jump on the radar equipped ship on top of the jump a passive detection system would give which widens the cone of possibility and makes it even harder for the MAC to hit it. And they are maneuverable enough to really make it count.

  59. WaffleTosser March 31, 2011 at 7:09 am -      #59

    Dodging a MAC round traveling at 12,000 km/s should be a walk in the park for a ship capable of dodging beam weapons traveling at 300,000 km/s.

    Its like ~30 km/second now.

  60. Enoirin March 31, 2011 at 7:41 am -      #60

    “True, the ARMD would have an additional one third of a second jump on the radar equipped ship on top of the jump a passive detection system would give which widens the cone of possibility and makes it even harder for the MAC to hit it. And they are maneuverable enough to really make it count.”

    Quite so.

    You know, I always liked the ARMD class carriers, such an underrated class. They’re very versatile combat vessels, capable of engaging enemies with multiple weapon systems, launching hordes of fighter craft that can be armed with anti-shipping missiles and, man, are the ARMD maneuverable little boxes. Oh, and I like the overall look of the ships (especially the DYRL?/2012 refit design) compared to later UN Spacy vessels (such as the New Macross class, hate those things, though I do like the Guantánamo class stealth carrier’s design somewhat).

    “We really aught to find a good match for Sovereign once we get some more info on Reaper capabilities in ME3.”

    Must’ve missed this one.

    I agree. The Sovereign seems like such a badass, it’d be a shame to put it in a stomp match of any kind.

    What do we know of Reaper combat capabilities currently? Such as; firepower, durability, acceleration (combat and linear), ect. I don’t mind ballpark estimates.

    I’m actually pretty curious about ME, but I have a shitty PC that could never run any of the games, which makes me a sad, sad little panda.

  61. Galorian March 31, 2011 at 10:24 am -      #61

    Sovereign is a 2km long (I think) sentient ship made out of some kind of metalic prossessed biomatter (don’t ask). Its kinetic barriers seemingly ignored the weapons of the Citadel fleet and it rammed its way through a Turian dreadnaught with no discernable damage to itself. A “dead” Reaper maintained its kinetic barriers inside the atmosphere of a gas giant for untold eons and they kept a bubble of calm in the turbulance who’s radius was probably hundreds of kilometers.

    Sovereign’s weapons fire beams of superheated molten tungstan at high releatevistic speed that one-shotted every ship unlucky enough to be hit by them.

  62. Enoirin March 31, 2011 at 10:35 am -      #62

    “Sovereign is a 2km long (I think) sentient ship made out of some kind of metalic prossessed biomatter (don’t ask). Its kinetic barriers seemingly ignored the weapons of the Citadel fleet and it rammed its way through a Turian dreadnaught with no discernable damage to itself. A “dead” Reaper maintained its kinetic barriers inside the atmosphere of a gas giant for untold eons and they kept a bubble of calm in the turbulance who’s radius was probably hundreds of kilometers.

    Sovereign’s weapons fire beams of superheated molten tungstan at high releatevistic speed that one-shotted every ship unlucky enough to be hit by them.”

    The Reapers sound pretty tough. How well do Reapers handle particle weapons? Any idea?

  63. Galorian March 31, 2011 at 10:44 am -      #63

    Forgot to add that Sovereign pulled a turn that would “shear any of our ships in half” and in the battle of the Citadel it outdistanced the entire geth armada in seconds.

    Judging by the fact that the above quote was by the Normandy’s pilot Joker, which is an extremely maneuverable ship in its own right, I’d say Sovereign is pretty sick in the maneuverability department.

  64. Enoirin March 31, 2011 at 10:49 am -      #64

    “Forgot to add that Sovereign pulled a turn that would “shear any of our ships in half” and in the battle of the Citadel it outdistanced the entire geth armada in seconds.

    Judging by the fact that the above quote was by the Normandy’s pilot Joker, which is an extremely maneuverable ship in its own right, I’d say Sovereign is pretty sick in the maneuverability department.”

    I was already under the impression that ME ships were pretty quick and maneuverable, thanks their ME fields and powerful thrusters.

  65. Galorian March 31, 2011 at 10:54 am -      #65

    Kinetic barriers can block anything with mass, so particle beams are suseptible to them. Lasers on the other hand go through as if they aren’t even there.

    No one has ever tried to shoot a giant laser at a Reaper before, so it is unknown if they have some kind of countermeasure against it.

  66. Enoirin March 31, 2011 at 11:09 am -      #66

    “Kinetic barriers can block anything with mass, so particle beams are suseptible to them. Lasers on the other hand go through as if they aren’t even there.”

    How powerful would said particle beam have to be to overcome a Reaper’s kinetic barrier? Any ideas?

    Sorry for asking so many questions, just want to get some ballpark idea of how formidable a Reaper would be.

  67. Galorian March 31, 2011 at 11:39 am -      #67

    Well… A dreadnaught is a km long ship itself and Sovereign rammed through it without so much as slowing. A few minutes afterwards the entire 5th fleet of the System’s Alliance navy opened fire on it and Sovereign simply started blasting them away.

    It was never explained why Sovereign’s shields went down but it wasn’t the fleet’s doing.

    For reference, the main gun of a human cruiser is rated at 20 kt, though I don’t remember their rate of fire or the stats of Alliance dreadnaughts atm.

  68. OriginalA March 31, 2011 at 12:36 pm -      #68

    “It was never explained why Sovereign’s shields went down but it wasn’t the fleet’s doing.”

    It went down because Sovereign’s consciousness was placed into Saren’s body. When Shepard killed Saren at the very end of the game Sovereign was effectively brain dead. At that moment his Barriers failed and the Alliance started to score hits.

  69. awsm March 31, 2011 at 2:57 pm -      #69

    I’ve been reading different posts and haven’t had my question answered so I’ll ask: does the ARMD have energy shields sufficient to stop a triple MAC blast?

    With an AI on board, a hit is almost garunteed, so I need to know: if it was hit, what kind of damage would it do?

    Same question for Archer missile spam and the 4 Shivas.

  70. WaffleTosser March 31, 2011 at 3:27 pm -      #70

    “With an AI on board, a hit is almost garunteed, so I need to know: if it was hit, what kind of damage would it do?”

    Now really, most robotech fights are at range of light seconds, and at 30 km/second, getting there is the UNSCs first problem.

  71. Galorian March 31, 2011 at 3:57 pm -      #71

    I never understood why the UNSC use 600 ton slugs when its clearly more efficient and effective to fire smaller projectiles at greater speeds.

    At the very least it would save them a LOT of storage space…

  72. the_man_with The_Answers March 31, 2011 at 7:21 pm -      #72

    Doesn’t the PoA have a few nukes, over a thousand archer missles, a triple MAC shredder cannon, and a bunch of .50 cal point defense turrets?

  73. Michael50210 March 31, 2011 at 7:34 pm -      #73

    “At the very least it would save them a LOT of storage space…”
    They do Have a lot of open space. Even when the ship is homeycombed with Grade-A titanium.

  74. Enoirin March 31, 2011 at 10:37 pm -      #74

    “I’ve been reading different posts and haven’t had my question answered so I’ll ask: does the ARMD have energy shields sufficient to stop a triple MAC blast?”

    Does the PoA have energy shields sufficient to stop ripple-fired reaction warheads?

    “With an AI on board, a hit is almost garunteed, so I need to know: if it was hit, what kind of damage would it do?”

    Well, considering the ARMD class have demonstrated the capability to dodge Zentradi beam weapon fire, I doubt a few MAC rounds would be very much of a problem here. And what sort of damage would be expected? I have no idea, depends on how much kinetic energy is behind the round.

    “Same question for Archer missile spam and the 4 Shivas.”

    The Shiva missiles should be able to take out the ARMD if they can score a direct hit or detonate at a close enough proximity (30 megaton warheads?).

    Archers would be next to useless against the ARMD itself given their HE warheads (they should work just fine against the ARMD’s fighter compliment though, if they can hit them).

    One has to keep in mind that the PoA isn’t just fighting the ARMD, but its fighter compliment as well (something like 78 Lancer II, 270 Ghost and an unknown number of VF-1 (all of which can and would be armed with anti-ship reaction warheads).

    “I never understood why the UNSC use 600 ton slugs when its clearly more efficient and effective to fire smaller projectiles at greater speeds.”

    I agree with this. It’d make much more sense to have lighter rounds at greater velocity (thus also increasing effective range). Though I’m sure the UNSC have their reasons for using such a massive round at a lower velocity.

  75. Fire grot tim March 31, 2011 at 10:52 pm -      #75

    If you were to think about it, a smaller round at a higher speed would punch a nice small hole. While the MAC is a larger round would shatter most objects when hit. The autumns MAC rounds have a harder shell, with a less dense core. It acts like a grenade when it hits a target, it penetrates then shreds the insides if a ship.

  76. Fire grot tim March 31, 2011 at 10:59 pm -      #76

    Sorry, i meant shreds the insides of a ship

  77. Eric Gigliotti March 31, 2011 at 11:18 pm -      #77

    “Archers would be next to useless against the ARMD itself given their HE warheads (they should work just fine against the ARMD’s fighter compliment though, if they can hit them).”

    Proof please. You’ve yet to provide any proof at all supporting these claims. From all I’ve seen, this thing was shredded by little beams of light which did no actual damage beside blasting small holes through metal. If this thing had a strong hull, it would have held up to that barrage. If those weapons are supposed to be some uber powerful laser, it should have had a much greater effect. But they didn’t.

    “Does the PoA have energy shields sufficient to stop ripple-fired reaction warheads?”

    Hydrofusion multi-reactive pulse rounds would wtfpwn the ARMD 01. See? I can do it too. Long, multiple-word names for weapons means nothing. Let me see proof these weapons are anything you claim them to be.

    “One has to keep in mind that the PoA isn’t just fighting the ARMD, but its fighter compliment as well (something like 78 Lancer II, 270 Ghost and an unknown number of VF-1 (all of which can and would be armed with anti-ship reaction warheads).”

    Cool. The PoA has a squadron of Longswords with Shiva nuclear missiles, anti-air missiles,120mm and 100mm cannons, and optional mines (34).

    The PoA can also fire its compliment of ODST pods at the ARMD 01 for a boarding action.

  78. Enoirin April 1, 2011 at 12:16 am -      #78

    “Proof please. You’ve yet to provide any proof at all supporting these claims. From all I’ve seen, this thing was shredded by little beams of light which did no actual damage beside blasting small holes through metal. If this thing had a strong hull, it would have held up to that barrage. If those weapons are supposed to be some uber powerful laser, it should have had a much greater effect. But they didn’t.”

    So we’re gauging the firepower of Zentradi beam weapons based on them interacting with a starship’s…hull? Really? I always viewed that scene more of an indication of the ARMD’s overall durability rather than an indicator of the supposed weakness of Zentradi beam weapons. Oh, and Zentradi beam weapons are particle beams of some sort, not lasers.

    Well, here’s something, though it’s mostly showcasing the super-dimension-energy cannons rather than the normal anti-ship beam weapons; www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApjsuGBVeh4#t=6m18s

    I’ll look for a better example of the standard beam weapons. Obviously they won’t be as impressive as the big guns, but that’s to be expected.

    Anyway, HE warheads, as in high explosive, non-nuclear warheads, yeah. There are upper limits to how powerful those can get. If they are actually armed with nuclear warheads, then they’d probably be a considerable threat to the ARMD, depending on their yield. Really, I’ve seen so much debate over whether or not Archers are armed with nuclear or HE warheads, the Halopedia seems to not be able to decide which one it is either, as it seems to change often between the two.

    “Hydrofusion multi-reactive pulse rounds would wtfpwn the ARMD 01. See? I can do it too. Long, multiple-word names for weapons means nothing. Let me see proof these weapons are anything you claim them to be.”

    That was a response to awsm’s silliness. You must realize that, yes?

    Well, all things considered, the ARMD’s large anti-ship reaction warheads are probably at the very least a few megatons considering the yield of the warheads used by Varauta; www.macross2.net/m3/macross7/varauta-fleetflagship.htm

    Wait, I already linked this. Post #17.

    There is no stated yield (at least none that have been translated yet) for the ARMD’s reaction warheads. All we know is that the Varauta’s warheads are 416 megatons (if M3 is correct) and that small warheads, seemingly only used by the poor little Oberth class destroyer are 20-100 kilotons; www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/oberth.htm

    Good god, I’ve linked this shit all over the site in the various Macross related matches so many times now.

    “Cool. The PoA has a squadron of Longswords with Shiva nuclear missiles, anti-air missiles,120mm and 100mm cannons, and optional mines (34).”

    That’s nice and all, but 78 Lancer II firing their entire payload of reaction warheads is something like 624 combined total missiles (counted 4 from port and starboard launchers in the video I linked in post #6). Considering the size of the fireballs and the fact that they didn’t poof out of existence immediately, I think it’s safe to assume they were reaction warheads. UN Spacy isn’t known for using non-reaction warheads in their missiles against actual warships.

    “The PoA can also fire its compliment of ODST pods at the ARMD 01 for a boarding action.”

    That’s retarded. Also not exactly something that could be resolved seeing as how there’s no information on the ARMD’s on-board security systems and what its security teams would be equipped with.

  79. Michael50210 April 1, 2011 at 12:33 am -      #79

    “The PoA can also fire its compliment of ODST pods at the ARMD 01 for a boarding action.”
    Umm, wouldn;t that kill them? And what if they miss?

  80. Enoirin April 1, 2011 at 12:36 am -      #80

    “Umm, wouldn;t that kill them? And what if they miss?”

    Yeah, what you said.

  81. the_man_with The_Answers April 1, 2011 at 6:57 pm -      #81

    If they miss they have limited thruster options, and would eventually die due to lack of oxygen if the PoA didn’t win and pick them up. Otherwise the pods could technically hit and survive. ODST suits are vacuum sealed and I’m pretty sure they have magnets on the bottom of their boots to keep from floating away. if they had the proper intrusion gear, they could possibly take over the ship. But the chances of ODST pods succesfully landing on the ship are very low.

  82. Eric Gigliotti April 1, 2011 at 7:10 pm -      #82

    @ Enoirin

    Most of what you posted are opinions. And saying “the weapons are this powerful because they compare to these weapons” does not mean anything. I want to see visual evidence. And I’m not going to watch a 24 minute video for a 2 second clip. Please post times to watch when linking a video.

    On the ARMD-01 hull and Zentradi weapons-
    Here we see the Zentradi beam melt the armor (although I don’t see how without any transfer of heat) and pass right on through. There is no buildup of energy on the wall before the beam passes through. It just sliced through like a hot knife through butter.

    Here we see the ship shattering. Now as we saw above, the Zentradi weapons did not hit with much concussive force, they basically melted the hull. So what would cause this? My only guess would be the hull tearing apart under the stresses of space flight.

    “That’s nice and all, but 78 Lancer II firing their entire payload of reaction warheads is something like 624 combined total missiles (counted 4 from port and starboard launchers in the video I linked in post #6). ”

    I understand this. But I have two counter arguments (for less of a shitfest) – the Longswords, and their pilots, went up against vastly superior ships in the Covenant Seraphs. The Seraphs had superior shielding (they actually had shields), weapons, armor, and maneuverability. The Longsword still held its own in space combat. And 2. I forgot to add the Pelicans. They have been shown to be formidable in space (if anybody has Halo: First Strike, please give some references for me).

    At least one of the PoA’s Longswords has mines (34). These are seeking mines and could help protect the PoA/Longswords.

    “That’s retarded. Also not exactly something that could be resolved seeing as how there’s no information on the ARMD’s on-board security systems and what its security teams would be equipped with.”

    Not really. It has been done before. And about them missing, @ 2:47 we see the ODST pods have propulsion systems. And then later at 3:00, we see them change course so they can maneuver as well.

  83. Enoirin April 1, 2011 at 8:43 pm -      #83

    “Most of what you posted are opinions. And saying “the weapons are this powerful because they compare to these weapons” does not mean anything. I want to see visual evidence. And I’m not going to watch a 24 minute video for a 2 second clip. Please post times to watch when linking a video.”

    Firstly, all the videos I link have the timestamp code if you’d notice, secondly if I’m not allowed to make comparisons of reaction weapons in-universe to try and figure out a probable yield for the ARMD’s reaction warheads, then there’s no fucking point in continuing this. You’re asking for information that either A. doesn’t exist or B. hasn’t been translated yet.

    The “visual evidence” you’re asking for isn’t really useful for determining any yields, it’s in the video in post #6. At around 6:05.

    “On the ARMD-01 hull and Zentradi weapons-
    Here we see the Zentradi beam melt the armor (although I don’t see how without any transfer of heat) and pass right on through. There is no buildup of energy on the wall before the beam passes through. It just sliced through like a hot knife through butter.”

    Being nitpicky now, eh? The show was poorly animated back in 1982 and it’s a fucking anime with mecha and space giants, it isn’t known for its realism.

    “Here we see the ship shattering. Now as we saw above, the Zentradi weapons did not hit with much concussive force, they basically melted the hull. So what would cause this? My only guess would be the hull tearing apart under the stresses of space flight.”

    Really? You’re really suggesting that the ship tore itself apart from simply performing maneuvers? Even though that isn’t the case at all? Really?

    Are you daft?

    “I understand this. But I have two counter arguments (for less of a shitfest) – the Longswords, and their pilots, went up against vastly superior ships in the Covenant Seraphs. The Seraphs had superior shielding (they actually had shields), weapons, armor, and maneuverability. The Longsword still held its own in space combat.”

    The Lancer II compliment is only a small part of the ARMD’s fighter payload, there’s 270 Ghost aboard the thing too. Again, they can be armed with anti-ship reaction warheads. But whatever, we don’t know the yields for any of the warheads so this is all pointless dribble.

  84. the_man_with The_Answers April 1, 2011 at 8:53 pm -      #84

    Wasn’t the PoA made specifically for the S-IIs? So wouldn’t it have a full compliment of them, around 25? Not that it matters, unless the S-IIs hijack the ship, which they have been shown to to on multiple occasions.

  85. Eric Gigliotti April 1, 2011 at 9:27 pm -      #85

    “Being nitpicky now, eh? The show was poorly animated back in 1982 and it’s a fucking anime with mecha and space giants, it isn’t known for its realism.”

    Its visual evidence. Its the highest canon. The visual evidence in Halo Reach screwed over everything Halo. The UNSC vs Starfleet was a debate until that game came out.

    “Really? You’re really suggesting that the ship tore itself apart from simply performing maneuvers? Even though that isn’t the case at all? Really?”

    No, I’m saying the hull became structurally compromised from the barrage. Because of this, the G forces tore it apart – G forces the ship normally could handle.

    “Wasn’t the PoA made specifically for the S-IIs? So wouldn’t it have a full compliment of them, around 25? Not that it matters, unless the S-IIs hijack the ship, which they have been shown to to on multiple occasions.”

    No, the PoA was re-purposed for the Spartan mission.

  86. Enoirin April 1, 2011 at 9:56 pm -      #86

    “Its visual evidence. Its the highest canon. The visual evidence in Halo Reach screwed over everything Halo. The UNSC vs Starfleet was a debate until that game came out.”

    Anyway, trying to gauge firepower from scenes involving the weapons interacting with a starship’s hull is silly for a multitude of reasons.

    We could use these to gauge Zentradi firepower:

    1: i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/Enoirin/Untitled.jpg

    2: i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/Enoirin/Untitled2.jpg

    3: i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/Enoirin/Untitled3.jpg

    4: i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/Enoirin/Untitled4.jpg

    5: i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/Enoirin/Untitled5.jpg

    6: i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/Enoirin/Untitled6.jpg

    7: i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/Enoirin/Untitled7.jpg

    But that’d be just dishonest. Now wouldn’t it?

    The only real way to gauge Zentradi warship firepower is by observing the effects of their weapons on the Earth when they bombarded it in the video I linked post #78 (which I recommend muting, good lord the Robotech dub has not aged well).

    This is what the Earth’s surface looked like years after the bombardment:

    www.thatanimeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/vlcsnap-2009-11-24-23h24m16s143.jpg

    And a couple decades later:

    www.thatanimeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/vlcsnap-2010-03-03-14h35m09s69.jpg

    “No, I’m saying the hull became structurally compromised from the barrage. Because of this, the G forces tore it apart – G forces the ship normally could handle.

    But the ship wasn’t torn apart by the G forces. In fact, it was rather in one piece still, mission-killed, but still in salvageable form. Re-watch the scene in question. Post #6, video link, at around 6:51.

  87. BC April 2, 2011 at 9:14 pm -      #87

    ” “No, I’m saying the hull became structurally compromised from the barrage. Because of this, the G forces tore it apart – G forces the ship normally could handle. ”

    It is also probably at least partly from secondary explosions from the things the beams hit. As for the strength of the armor watch the amount of beams hitting on the outside and then compare that to the density of beams in the interior shots. There is quite a difference in the number of beams per square area which means the armor stopped quite a few of them. Some of the debris may also be from fighters and missiles caught in the barrage as well.

    ” “No, I’m saying the hull became structurally compromised from the barrage. Because of this, the G forces tore it apart – G forces the ship normally could handle. ”

    The artificial gravity failed and the ship went into a spin so anything not latched down probably drifted out of the landing bay doors as well as other possible causes. The beams had a certain amount of duration too even though it was not long, so aspect changes from the spin would sweep the beams a short distance cutting parts loose from surface mounted stuff and possibly cutting loose some pieces of the armor plates and such.

    ” “On the ARMD-01 hull and Zentradi weapons-
    Here we see the Zentradi beam melt the armor (although I don’t see how without any transfer of heat) and pass right on through. There is no buildup of energy on the wall before the beam passes through. It just sliced through like a hot knife through butter.”

    You are kidding with the ‘no transfer of heat’ comment I hope. Elementary school physics has demonstrations of concentrated light burning things, and lasers are concentrated light. The target absorbs the light energy which transforms to heat. Particle beams also cause heating from the impact of the particles and friction as they pass through the material among other possible effects.

    As to the quickly burning holes through without a ‘buildup of energy’ it is unfortunately impossible to tell exactly which beams came from which size guns and how powerful they are. For all we know from the visuals the ones doing the instant punch through the armor could be capable of drilling a hole through the moon (though personally I doubt quite that high of an output it does illustrate the point). On the other hand, with the extremely high density of fire the ones punching right through could be hitting spots already hot from previous hits that did not penetrate.

  88. Eric Gigliotti April 3, 2011 at 4:26 pm -      #88

    @ Enoirin and BC

    All I’m saying is this: when a metal is heated up, it gives off light. When the beam hits, there is no glow coming from the increased temperature of the metal, therefore, no heat energy. Then all of a sudden, the metal melts and the beam shoots through.

    The beams also did not blast through the hull as there was no explosion and no ejected materials until after the beam left.

  89. BC April 3, 2011 at 6:10 pm -      #89

    ” All I’m saying is this: when a metal is heated up, it gives off light. When the beam hits, there is no glow coming from the increased temperature of the metal, therefore, no heat energy. Then all of a sudden, the metal melts and the beam shoots through.

    The beams also did not blast through the hull as there was no explosion and no ejected materials until after the beam left. ”

    The glow may not have been visible on a bright white surface in bright sunshine. It is also possible that the armor spread the heat out enough that there would not be a visible bright glowing spot even though the armor got very hot, perhaps enough for it to fail on the next hit. Also composite materials do not always glow like plain metal would and the hull could have been made of one of those.

    Though it is true it would have looked more realistic if they had shown scorching paint and glowing patches appearing on the hull it was done in a rather minimal animation style compared to modern cartoons and so they probably did not think the extra expense of going to such detail worth it.

    ” The beams also did not blast through the hull as there was no explosion and no ejected materials until after the beam left. ”

    Lasers and particle beams ‘blasting’ things is a ridiculous hollywoodism, and one that the macross producers apparently chose not to include in the scene. They can carry tremendous energy from the electromagnetic spectrum and negligible kinetic energy at anything above the atomic level without it being some kind of contradiction. Any explosions in the ship would be more likely to be either pressure releases from catastrophic failure of pressurized tanks or ignition of flammables and explosives before the atmosphere is depleted in the section.

  90. the_man_with The_Answers April 3, 2011 at 6:14 pm -      #90

    Either way, someone needs to find the weapon stats for that damn beam.

  91. BC April 3, 2011 at 6:58 pm -      #91

    ” Either way, someone needs to find the weapon stats for that damn beam. ”

    If you mean the barrage striking the ARMD it was probably a number of different types and sizes of beams. Zentradi ships seem to use quite a number of different weapons on the same ship and there were several different types shooting.

  92. Enoirin April 5, 2011 at 11:12 am -      #92

    I’m surprised nobody’s nitpicked the whole Gnerl fighters entering the atmosphere scene (which is around 9:06 into the video linked in post #6). There’s no apparent heating of the Gnerls’ hulls upon entering the atmosphere. Go figure.

    “Either way, someone needs to find the weapon stats for that damn beam.”

    It’s unfortunate that no stated yields for Zentradi beam weaponry exist (at least nothing within canon (perhaps there is, just simply not translated yet, I honestly don’t know).

  93. BC April 5, 2011 at 2:12 pm -      #93

    ” I’m surprised nobody’s nitpicked the whole Gnerl fighters entering the atmosphere scene (which is around 9:06 into the video linked in post #6). There’s no apparent heating of the Gnerls’ hulls upon entering the atmosphere. Go figure. ”

    Maybe they have some kind of repeller field that keeps the atmosphere from rubbing the hull hard enough to cause incandescence, or the hulls could have unusual thermal properties like the ceramic used in the space shuttle. Thermal properties like that would also give a measure of protection against heat based weapons like lasers so it makes sense that they would develop and use something like of the sort.

  94. Enoirin April 5, 2011 at 2:38 pm -      #94

    “Maybe they have some kind of repeller field that keeps the atmosphere from rubbing the hull hard enough to cause incandescence, or the hulls could have unusual thermal properties like the ceramic used in the space shuttle. Thermal properties like that would also give a measure of protection against heat based weapons like lasers so it makes sense that they would develop and use something like of the sort.”

    I really doubt they have a “repeller field”. There’s really no explicit evidence for this (and the only implicit evidence are the odd visuals in said scene, but I think what was intended wasn’t to be some sort of “repeller field” effect, rather just the effect of the Gnerl entering the atmosphere).

    Anyway, according to various sources, Zentradi and Supervision Army vessels (and by extension UN Spacy vessels) are (presumably) constructed out of something called “hypercarbon” (as that’s apparently what the SDF-1 Macross’ hull and frame are made out of). If we take the dialogue from one of the M7 episodes (that City 7 had a thermal resistance of up to 6000 degrees Celsius) and assume its hull materials are the same as Zentradi and SA vessels, would mean that “hypercarbon” is quite resistant to extreme temperatures.

    So, the Gnerl may very well be constructed out of “hypercarbon” or some sort of composite (like you said) that makes use of the material. Hell, “hypercarbon” may in fact be a composite material itself.

    I can’t recall the M7 episode in question that had the aforementioned dialogue and I don’t particularly feel like looking for it at the moment, so I’ll come back at a later date with a video link and time stamp.

    As for the “hypercarbon” bit:

    ” Hypercarbon (described in Macross The Movie: Do You Remember Love? – 1984)

    A material possessing properties of superior structural strength that composed the hull of the ASS-1/SDF-1 Macross.”

    www.macross2.net/m3/macrosspedia/macrosspedia-index.html#h

  95. Johnny-the-Homicidal-Maniac April 30, 2011 at 1:06 am -      #95

    The ARMD rapes the PoA with reaction missile and beam spam

  96. macross the complete May 16, 2011 at 3:04 am -      #96

    you kidding no contest ARMD all the way, this is what i see happening, POA destroyed. why? POA spasms from a heart attack do to a massive nuke attack. ‘to laugh’ jk aside check out this nice pics of macross ships theres nice info and line art to see of ARMD and its weapons and fighter craft. injoy

  97. best August 16, 2011 at 6:48 pm -      #97

    ARMD would win due to it massive barrage of reaction weapons. The thing stand no chance against an ARMD.

  98. 4thlovora September 11, 2011 at 3:42 pm -      #98

    PoA has a remote controlled longsword armed with a shiva-class nuke on it, and if you’ve read the fall of reach, the PoA was able to take out several CSS class battlecruisers before the MAC became offline, one ARMD would be like a phantom with it’s engines blown out, easy for PoA

  99. Mr. Twattington September 14, 2011 at 2:52 am -      #99

    “PoA has a remote controlled longsword armed with a shiva-class nuke on it, and if you’ve read the fall of reach, the PoA was able to take out several CSS class battlecruisers before the MAC became offline, one ARMD would be like a phantom with it’s engines blown out, easy for PoA”

    Hey, why not post an actual argument AND something a bit more solid than an opinion to back it up?

  100. Johnny-the-Homicidal-Maniac September 14, 2011 at 4:41 pm -      #100

    ARMDs carry over 300 fighters, all capable of carrying reaction missiles which are shown to be equivalent or superior to equivalent weapons in halo. (ref Macross Chronicle) ARMDs also carry 5 beams cannon equivalent to ones used by the zentradi which are kiloton range per shot. An ARMDs main weapons are its ICBM sized reaction missiles which can be fired extremely quickly and are capable of killing warships that survive ballistic impact from orbit with proximity detonations

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