Suggested by Negative Zero
Here we have the Wookies from Star Wars up against the Na’vi from Avatar.
The fight takes place on a heavily forested planet similar to Kashyyyk and Pandora with neutral air.
There are 100,000 Wookiees and Na’vi on each side.
Wookiees get…
Bowcasters
Ryyk Blades
Bladesticks
Na’vi get…
Hunting Bows
Hunting Knives
Bolas
Which side wins?
“Well, is there any evidence that supports the notion that Stormtroopers have excellent accuracy, other than the fact that you seem to think they do? You actually need proof that what your claiming is PIS, before you can convince other people that it is so… otherwise you know, anybody can come up with some pet-theory that A, B, or C only occurred due to plot-reasons just because they don’t like what A, B, or C entails.”
EU indicates that the storm troopers are actually the elite of the elite troops and a whole slew of other things. Thing is going with the latest interviews (every few years the opinion changes) EU isn’t canon to the main timeline of the movies. It IS canon to its own universe though.
With the movies being the primary source of SW canon however it would imply that the EU isn’t canon. Thus we’re looking at an entire universe of poor shots.
“Well, is there any evidence that supports the notion that Stormtroopers have excellent accuracy, other than the fact that you seem to think they do? You actually need proof that what your claiming is PIS, before you can convince other people that it is so… otherwise you know, anybody can come up with some pet-theory that A, B, or C only occurred due to plot-reasons just because they don’t like what A, B, or C entails.”
I was not just reffering to Stormtroopers goddammit. Read my entire post please. Common sense would tell you that if the major characters were killed by accurately shot Blaster bolts then we would have dead characters and NO movie. COMMON FUCKING SENSE.
“EU indicates that the storm troopers are actually the elite of the elite troops and a whole slew of other things. Thing is going with the latest interviews (every few years the opinion changes) EU isn’t canon to the main timeline of the movies. It IS canon to its own universe though.
With the movies being the primary source of SW canon however it would imply that the EU isn’t canon. Thus we’re looking at an entire universe of poor shots.”
If you really want to be that way then EU canon is allowed in this match because I’m sick of all Star Wars argumants turning into canon arguments so I’m nippin’ this bitch in the bud before it starts.
“Common sense would tell you that if the major characters were killed by accurately shot Blaster bolts then we would have dead characters and NO movie. COMMON FUCKING SENSE.”
No, Lucas put that in there to show how inaccurate the Stormtroopers were. If he wanted to show that the Stormtroopers were accurate and keep the characters alive, he would have avoided putting in so many scenes where Stormtroopers miss their intended target. COMMON FUCKING SENSE.
Ahh… see what happens when we break suspension of disbelief and we begin questioning the orginal movie creators intentions and motives? Now you’ll probably come back with a response explaining how I’m wrong because you’re right, at the same time implying how knew exactly what Lucas was thinking when he made this movie ( maybe you’ll even go as far as to claim you knew him personally, just to give your argument a bit more substance? ).
There’s a reason why debates such as these are meant to be objective, meaning we deal with tangible, apparent evidence; you know, the stuff that proves what you’re claiming beyond the benefit of a reasonable doubt? If somebody wanted to go out to prove that Stormtroopers have terrible accuract, they have the tangible evidence to do so. You need evidence that its PIS ( aka, that Stormtroopers missing isn’t the norm, despite what we generally see ), otherwise its just a pet-theory. Fact is, Stormtroopers miss a lot in the movies. Your opinion is, this doesn’t actually reflect their full potential. At the moment, your only evidence that this is so is yet even more opinion ( that is, your speculation on George Lucas motives ).
“If you really want to be that way then EU canon is allowed in this match”
Now you can use EU material to prove their accuracy. However, my argument from before still stands, as it pertained to movie-only material.
“No, Lucas put that in there to show how inaccurate the Stormtroopers were. If he wanted to show that the Stormtroopers were accurate and keep the characters alive, he would have avoided putting in so many scenes where Stormtroopers miss their intended target. COMMON FUCKING SENSE.”
Or he had all those scenes for entertainment and that they pertained to the story. COMMON FUCKING SENSE.
“Ahh… see what happens when we break suspension of disbelief and we begin questioning the orginal movie creators intentions and motives?”
Not really seeing as how YOUR the one that is questioning Lucas. But nice try at putting words in my mouth I guess.
“Now you’ll probably come back with a response explaining how I’m wrong because you’re right, at the same time implying how knew exactly what Lucas was thinking when he made this movie ( maybe you’ll even go as far as to claim you knew him personally, just to give your argument a bit more substance? ).”
Now your trying to predict what I’ll do next? You really are one sad little smartass huh?
“If somebody wanted to go out to prove that Stormtroopers have terrible accuract”
Hmmmm terrible accurat………
“( that is, your speculation on George Lucas motives ).”
Funny how you keep saying I brought up George Lucas.
so…….do wookies shoot more accuratelly in the books then?
Every single scene in movie or in a book is put in there for entertainment purposes. Yes, as you put it, its “common fucking sense”. However, I asked you in the post prior to your response for evidence that Stormtroopers have excellent accuracy. By telling me “there would be no movie if Stormtroopers hit everything” as a response, you are implying its “common fucking sense” that that George Lucas intended the Stormtroopers to be accurate, although that is not what the movie events ( in-universe facts ) seemed to imply. If this is not what you were trying to say, then you merely swerved around my initial question without answering it.
Here, let me re-quote it for you: “Well, is there any evidence that supports the notion that Stormtroopers have excellent accuracy, other than the fact that you seem to think they do?” Are you trying to imply what I previously claimed you were implying ( aka, me putting “words in your mouth” ) or are you trying to imply that you’re exempt from the requirement to provide tangible evidence for your claims by completely dodging the focus of the question?
“Not really seeing as how YOUR the one that is questioning Lucas. But nice try at putting words in my mouth I guess.”
Yes, I questioned Lucas intentions in my previous response [ "No, Lucas put that ... intended target" ], however, I was sarcastically making fun of your attempts to turn the point of debate into a subjective mess– as you were the first to question Lucas’ intentions in the first place It was to prove that what you’re claiming was not in fact “COMMON FUCKING SENSE”, because there are other possible, and reasonable explanations that would describe why Lucas decided to have Stormtroopers miss– reasonable explanations that goes against your claims that Stormtroopers have excellent accuracy. This is generally what happens when you break suspension of disbelief in order to wave away an event as merely a plot device; there’s going to be disagreement because one ( you, in this case particular ) cannot prove what the creator ( Lucas, in this case ) was actually thinking.
And by the way, not only did you in fact question Lucas motives ( not question Lucas, but yes, questioning his motives, or at the very least, attempting to pretend as if you know better than the rest of us as to what he intended in any particular scene ) in your previous response by saying that, “he only made the Stormtroopers miss because A-B-C”, but you did so again in your latest response by saying “entertainment was the reason Stormtroopers missed, therefore they have excellent accuracy”. And here, just to show how messy a subjective argument can get and how it gets nowhere, let me respond to it in the same manner:
“Or he had all those scenes for entertainment and that they pertained to the story. COMMON FUCKING SENSE.”
Yes, but in particular, those scenes were still intended to show how poorly trained the”galaxy’s elite” actually were. COMMON FUCKING SENSE.
Do you get it now?
“Funny how you keep saying I brought up George Lucas.”
Wait– you weren’t talking about George Lucas when you indirectly referenced the “creator” of the Stars Movies, by directly referring the creation of said movies? If have the wrong guy, then please, let me know.
“Hmmmm terrible accurat………”
Just curious, but what went through your head when you put in this blatant snipe? Do you honestly think that a typo such as this ( the incorrectly used letter being right next to the intended letter ) implies that I need to go back to the second-grade? Or were you filled with such emotion while writing your response that you felt that you needed to insult me, but couldn’t find any better matrial <— { there, I even put in a typo intentionally this time, just in case you feel the need to vent }
“however, I was sarcastically making fun of your attempts to turn the point of debate into a subjective mess”
Oh so you were sarcastically being a snot nosed twat? Anyway it wasn’t me bringing up the whole “EU canon” thing. As usual it was CIDE (no offense).
“Just curious, but what went through your head when you put in this blatant snipe? Do you honestly think that a typo such as this ( the incorrectly used letter being right next to the intended letter ) implies that I need to go back to the second-grade? Or were you filled with such emotion while writing your response that you felt that you needed to insult me, but couldn’t find any better matrial <— { there, I even put in a typo intentionally this time, just in case you feel the need to vent }"
No, I just think it's hard to put yourself so high on a pedastal with typos. Anyway why don't you stop being a smartass and at least try to debate the match.
so……someone still needs to show some wookie accuracy from books still, otherwise using the EU being taken into account doesn’t do much.
“Oh so you were sarcastically being a snot nosed twat?”
If this is what users of sarcasm are now universally known as, then yes, I believe I was.
” Anyway it wasn’t me bringing up the whole “EU canon” thing. As usual it was CIDE (no offense).”
The funny thing is that I never even once mentioned the canonicity of the EU, and it in no way pertains to my argument. The subjective mess I was referring to In fact, I even let off at the end of Post #103 by saying that the argument no longer pertained to the debate, but by itself, it still stood. And I can’t tell if Post #104 was an attempt to dismantle my previous argument or if you merely felt the need to vent.
“No, I just think it’s hard to put yourself so high on a pedastal with typos.”
Where did state that I was in any way superior to you or anybody else? But don’t get me wrong, I thought your argument made no sense and I made no effort hiding that or where I thought your argument was heading at its worst ( i.e. you claiming to have known Lucas personally ). Next time I’ll be sure to take into account the possibility that the person I’m debating against has some sort of inferiority complex.
“Anyway why don’t you stop being a smartass”
Are you serious? Is this the most you got out of our little argument? That I was flexing my “smartass” muscles? Did the possibility, that maybe, just maybe, that I generally disagreed with you in some way ever even cross your mind?
“and at least try to debate the match.”
This very well pertains to this debate until somebody can bring up evidence of Wookie accuracy in the EU ( or even the Movies ).
————————————————————————-
“so……someone still needs to show some wookie accuracy from books still, otherwise using the EU being taken into account doesn’t do much.”
I’ll see what I can find. I wonder if Chewbacca used any long-ranged weaponry during his debut of the Clone Wars series.
@Diarukia
You really were acting like a smartass when you started to predict what I would say next. Also I don’t have a complex of any kind. Anyway I would normally have better insults but I just don’t feel like arguing at the moment and I’m logging off anyway.
Question…. Do you guys think that a reaver titan vs an atlas battle mech is a good match?
mechwarrior.mytopix.com/img/a/atlas-0.jpg
www.darkestheresy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/reavermcpf10.jpg
“You really were acting like a smartass when you started to predict what I would say next.”
Hah, I probably should have waited to see how persistent you were with your claims before I used that one.
“ Also Blasters are apparently accurate enough to hit speeding Pod Racers. “
Those were tuskan ‘cycler’ slugthower rifles not blasters. The are very much like the czerka 6-2AUG2 sniper rifle and may have even been modified tuskan knockoffs of them. Some of them use the same plasma sheathe technology as the bowcasters. The have a maximum range of around 200 meters. Aurra Sing used a slugthrower sniper rifle because it was longer ranged and more accurate than a long blaster.
“ i think one of the major factors in how this fight will fare is the accuracy of shots from each side. navi didn’t miss a shot in the movie(as far as i remember). not saying they never do, just that they are skilled enough to take only shots they think they can make and make them on the move from a flying creature and hit others on another flying vessel(ending fight scene shooting guys on loading ramp of human ship). the wookies have been facepalmed by george lucas in the films……do the books make anyone shoot with more accuracy? “
Some of the books do have people shooting accurately, though most is relatively close range, and of course Aurra Sing and her rifle sniping. It is kind of like it is in real life, a few exceptional shots picking off people and small targets with ease but the majority sending a lot more fire downrange than hits. Most star wars soldiers are city types with little or no experience with blaster ‘rifles’ (or any other kind of long gun) before enlistment. Wookies could be an exception to that in light of the dangerous nature of their home planet, but most of them do not seem to take marksmanship as seriously as hand to hand from what I have seen and read. Most blaster fights seem to be brutal short ranged affairs like what often happens with UZI’s and MAC10′S with both sides within knife throwing range.
“ Well, is there any evidence that supports the notion that Stormtroopers have excellent accuracy, other than the fact that you seem to think they do? You actually need proof that what your claiming is PIS, before you can convince other people that it is so… otherwise you know, anybody can come up with some pet-theory that A, B, or C only occurred due to plot-reasons just because they don’t like what A, B, or C entails. “
Stormtroopers vary wildly in quality ranging from the exceptional kamino clones to the nearly useless spaarti clones (the empire would have been better off issuing blasters to orangutans than to the spaarti clones, though later Thrawn was able to eventually get a few that were smarter than five year olds after modifying the spaarti tubes). Then of course there are the natural-born recruits scattershot in between those extremes.
“so……someone still needs to show some wookie accuracy from books still, otherwise using the EU being taken into account doesn’t do much.”
While it isn’t the books, I found some interesting scenes in Episode 22 of Season 3 of the Clone Wars series.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlVKv7a-wu8
Accuracy: (16:58), ( 18:25 ), ( 18:33 )
Strength: (15:04), ( 17:20 )
Nothing too particularly astounding, but they’re a start.
“With the movies being the primary source of SW canon however it would imply that the EU isn’t canon. Thus we’re looking at an entire universe of poor shots.”
Much of your evidence for this is PIS and character shielding. The Stormtroopers on Tantive IV completely owned the Rebels and hit almost every time.
“If you really want to be that way then EU canon is allowed in this match because I’m sick of all Star Wars argumants turning into canon arguments so I’m nippin’ this bitch in the bud before it starts.”
Then get the Admin to change it I guess. Graned, canon debates are in fact a huge part of hte debating process and is still very important. Even if it annoys you it doesn’t mean it’s any less important.
‘Oh so you were sarcastically being a snot nosed twat? Anyway it wasn’t me bringing up the whole “EU canon” thing. As usual it was CIDE (no offense).”
It’s not usually me, actually. Maybe in some of the newer debates (2-3 tops) but a vast majority it had been brought up and discussed long before I even joined the site.
“Accuracy: (16:58), ( 18:25 ), ( 18:33 )
Strength: (15:04), ( 17:20 )”
The strength was rather impressive if we compared the weight of the vehicle lifted to something made of modern day steel. I don’t know how durasteel (assuming its composition) would compare to normal steel, structural steel, or carbon steel when it comes to weight.
The melee bouts they had though suggest REALLY pathetic fighting skill though…
I’m just saying.
The accuracy on the other hand was okay. They were at close ranges against a stationary target. Both shots taken with a full sized “rifle” from a kneeling position at just a few dozen yards isn’t enough for me to be convinced.
Id give it to the wookies who are phsically on par with the navvi but theyre bowcasters are far more advanced on 100,000 vs 100,000 and they are both well suited for the jungle
can anyone post average height and weight for each race
Wookies are about a foot taller than humans, the Na’vi are a few feet taller than humans. (Correction would be highly appreciated)
No idea about the weight.
The average na’vi male is 10 feet tall and 356 pounds. Their bone fibers are natural carbon nanotubes so breaking one is extremely difficult (which is how they can fall so far without injury). Females are slightly smaller and lighter but not by quite as much as the relative difference in human height and weight between sexes.
They have about four times the raw strength of a human but their long limbs and very rigid bones allow them to leverage it better.
The easiest way to tell a native na’vi from a dreamwalker (avatar) is to count the fingers and toes, natives have only four where terran avatars have five (it is a limitation of the avatar process, some terran genetics express themselves regardless of what is done to make them look more like natives). Dr. Augustine has one of the first generation avatars with more human-looking features rather than the flat wide nose and such.
the weapons of the wookies are nasty and they have shomn exreme feats of strength in revenge of the sith durung the CIS invasion of kashyyk
the weapons of the wookies are nasty and they have shown extreme feats of strength in revenge of the sith during the CIS invasion of kashyyk
” the weapons of the wookies are nasty and they have shown extreme feats of strength in revenge of the sith during the CIS invasion of kashyyk ”
No more than the feats shown in the avatar movie, and na’vi weapons are nasty too. They were shooting down VTOLs with bows and arrows (though not all of the shots worked an impressive amount did) for one thing.
Hey, do the Wookies get comlinks or any other non-weaponary technology? Because comunicatating over distances and modern medicine would be a huge tactical advantage.
wookies have i would estimate similar physical abilities and superior technology i would think they could relatively pwn the navi if the navi got their banshees and the wookies their.. erm helicopter things… it could be more interesting
Just in case anybody doesn’t know.
Wookiee: Average height- 2.1 meters, Weight- ???,
Na’vi: Height- 2.7-3 meters, Weight- 356lbs,
My opinion? Wookiees all the way.
lazer is faster than bows = wookie win
um, wookies have guns and their hide protects from light blasters a bit so their hide is much tougher, plus the wookies live in jungle and do all that stealth hunting too.
And i mean, a wookie would just straight up throttle a na’vi with one hand.
” um, wookies have guns and their hide protects from light blasters a bit so their hide is much tougher, plus the wookies live in jungle and do all that stealth hunting too.
And i mean, a wookie would just straight up throttle a na’vi with one hand. ”
Na’ vi are tough too, their trick of jumping off a high place and using the impact with branches and leaves to slow their fall would pound a human to jelly. They are also very stealthy and their bows are much quieter than a blaster. Wookies may be able to throttle a na’vi but it would probably take two hands and end up with a choke vs. choke and who passes out first situation.
Hm wookies will win due to tech and strength.
Obviously all the new posters have not read the entire debate before posting their opinion on the matter.
“Herp derp TECHNOLOGY!!! IT WINZ!!” is sounding so fucking retarded when the only form of technology they are are SW level hand held weapons with too many variables to be of any use.
Herp derp! avatar was such a great movie so i’ll go against all reason to argue that na’vi would win because the movie was awesome and they’re blue! yay!
Go learn about any conflict that took place in history where one force had superior technology.
English soldiers vs zulus : less than a hundred men with guns fought off waves of zulus numbering in the hundreds. zulu’s had primitive spears.
that would be just one example many campaigns in history where the side with guns was horribly out numbered but still won. I can name at least three more if you need me to.
I’d love to hear your reasons why the na’vi, who have sticks and loincloths, are going to beat the wookies who have guns, bombs, flying vehicles, as well as the ability to fight in the jungle and all that stuff and use stealth.
In soviet Russia, Humans wtfpwn giant blue smurfs.
“Herp derp! avatar was such a great movie so i’ll go against all reason to argue that na’vi would win because the movie was awesome and they’re blue! yay!
Go learn about any conflict that took place in history where one force had superior technology.
English soldiers vs zulus : less than a hundred men with guns fought off waves of zulus numbering in the hundreds. zulu’s had primitive spears.
that would be just one example many campaigns in history where the side with guns was horribly out numbered but still won. I can name at least three more if you need me to.
I’d love to hear your reasons why the na’vi, who have sticks and loincloths, are going to beat the wookies who have guns, bombs, flying vehicles, as well as the ability to fight in the jungle and all that stuff and use stealth.”
I see you’re definitely going to be a fun one…
First, let’s cover these “guns” for a minute, right? Can you actually show that these specific weapons are all that effective? Sure, there’s a lot of wank for them but as it stands now only a handful at best have any decent stopping power with a provable range being a few dozen meters with some of them even having a horrible rate of fire.
I bring this up because the primary reasons guns win battles is one of two reasons; range or rate of fire. Specifically in the one example you gave me they could keep the Zulu outside of their effective range because of the range of their rifles. For every spear thrown too a single Brittish soldier could probably get off 5 shots.
As far as can be proven the Wookie weapons do NOT have this advantage.
“Here we have the Wookies from Star Wars up against the Na’vi from Avatar.
The fight takes place on a heavily forested planet similar to Kashyyyk and Pandora with neutral air.
There are 100,000 Wookiees and Na’vi on each side.
Wookiees get…
Bowcasters
Ryyk Blades
Bladesticks
Na’vi get…
Hunting Bows
Hunting Knives
Bolas
Which side wins?”
Do I see anything about vehicles for either side in the OP? No?
Also, I HATED the avatar movie and loved Star Wars. What’s this say about your claims of bias?
Okay, someone answer my question, please.
“Hey, do the Wookies get comlinks or any other non-weaponary technology? Because comunicatating over distances and modern medicine would be a huge tactical advantage.”
“Okay, someone answer my question, please.”
Support technology wasn’t covered. However, commo is something that the Navi also have access to in their most current incarnation.
Thanks, CIDE. Being ignored is one of my pet peeves, and I’ve been getting it a lot on this site lately, so it was nice of you to actually respond.
welp, I’ll be back to this thread once I locate my specs on bowcasters… but I know it can kill stormtroopers… and as much as people like to dis Stormtrooper armor, its a whole lot better than Navi skin… and finding specs for Stormtrooper armor may be easier. not to mention, Avatar was one of the most hyped and worst films of all time so nothing in its verse gets to win…
“Avatar was one of the most hyped and worst films of all time so nothing in its verse gets to win…”
that’s not the right mentality to have for a debate. It has nothing to do with what’s liked or not or hyped or whatever.
As for killing Storm Troopers all that does is bring it to a one hit kill weapon vs one hit kill weapon (given the toxin in the arrows).
Seriously Cide, go watch star wars.
For what? Go see a weapon with a provable range of a couple dozen meter range and a horrible rate of fire that can kill Storm Troopers? Stuff we ALREADY know?
“that’s not the right mentality to have for a debate. It has nothing to do with what’s liked or not or hyped or whatever.”
jeesh, someone can’t take a joke… I have been gone from this site way too long, noone knows when I am joking anymore
aanyeways, how fast does the toxin take to take effect (sorry, I repressed everything Avatar related to the deepest darkest part of my mind along with all my memories of Catholic priests)
“aanyeways, how fast does the toxin take to take effect (sorry, I repressed everything Avatar related to the deepest darkest part of my mind along with all my memories of Catholic priests)”
The speed of teh toxin was mentioned, though I cant recal it. However I think the primary effects of a spear fired by a ballista would probably kill the target before the poison.
@ Canantra
I saw you were debating with EMOboy on the Oddysey vs Enterprise threa… don’t, hes just a rabid Trekkie, that throws numbers hem makes up around. He would take Jean Luc Picard over The One Above All
I’m seeing people have taken to debating the accuracy of the Wookies, well, there are 100,000 on each side, which means misfires would end up hitting another target, or the branches beneath the Na’vi, or we could simply be looking into a wall of light where it would be impossible to miss, should the Wookies decide to get into a line and start firing at the same time.
As for the toxins, it works in less that a minute. Um, that’s what I heard from the movie, can anyone confirm?
“I saw you were debating with EMOboy on the Oddysey vs Enterprise threa… don’t, hes just a rabid Trekkie, that throws numbers hem makes up around.”
I know, I’ve encountered him before.
“I’m seeing people have taken to debating the accuracy of the Wookies, well, there are 100,000 on each side, which means misfires would end up hitting another target, or the branches beneath the Na’vi, or we could simply be looking into a wall of light where it would be impossible to miss, should the Wookies decide to get into a line and start firing at the same time.”
Eh, thats realy assuming teh battlefield is small and everyone is bunched up, as opposed to hundred or thousands of squar miles of jungle to move through. That might need to be defined.
Cide, the wookie’s guns do not have a terrible range. And even if they did, it would still have a farther range than a thrown stick. I will admit the woookie guns do have a less than stellar rate of fire, but again, still better than the rate of fire of thrown sticks.
You, know, it’s not JUST about the killing aspect of the guns. There are NUMEROUS advantages that come with having guns that have nothing to do with the actual killing. For example, the wookie’s guns are ALOT less likely to break or suffer damage from harsh conditions since they are made of metal. On the other hand, the na’vi bows and sticks can mold or break easily because they’re made of um….wood.
On an unrelated note, i am just going to point out that the na’vi would never have even come close to winning the battle against the humans in avatar if it weren’t for that lame mumbo jumbo power of nature crap. It was one hundred percent Hollywood.
“Cide, the wookie’s guns do not have a terrible range. ”
Proof?
“still better than the rate of fire of thrown sticks.”
I didn’t see any thrown sticks. I remember seeing bows and arrows with projectiles the size of fence posts.
“For example, the wookie’s guns are ALOT less likely to break or suffer damage from harsh conditions since they are made of metal. On the other hand, the na’vi bows and sticks can mold or break easily because they’re made of um….wood.”
Yes, but what happens when the gun breaks? They don’t have the facility to repair or remake. The Navi could have a surpluss of weapons stored up and the ability to make new ones is readily available.
“On an unrelated note, i am just going to point out that the na’vi would never have even come close to winning the battle against the humans in avatar if it weren’t for that lame mumbo jumbo power of nature crap. It was one hundred percent Hollywood.”
Mostly agreed. But that was primarily because of vehicles; something the Wookie don’t have here.
“Yes, but what happens when the gun breaks? They don’t have the facility to repair or remake. The Navi could have a surpluss of weapons stored up and the ability to make new ones is readily available.”
thats not in the match details… so they don’t, and have you ever tried to make a bow from scratch? it takes months.
Are traps allowed to be set?
Then again traps can or cannot work, on both sides.
Personally I would say that the Na’vi are just as strong as the Wookie if not stronger. They are also much bigger and just as agile. Wookies have much more tech and are a way more advanced race, also Wookies are probably tactically much more aware.
Over all I would give this to the Wookies, because of the technology advantage.
“Are traps allowed to be set?
Then again traps can or cannot work, on both sides.”
I don’t see why they can’t be set.
“Over all I would give this to the Wookies, because of the technology advantage.”
Why does everyone bring it down to technology when what they have is negligible at best…?
“Yes, but what happens when the gun breaks? They don’t have the facility to repair or remake. The Navi could have a surpluss of weapons stored up and the ability to make new ones is readily available.”
Wookie guns would break ALOT less often, and they wouldn’t have factories to mass produce more and it would probably stay broken or not be fixed.
however, na’vi bows would break much more often. They would be hard to replace since bows take weeks or months to make. Also, you cant exactly duct tape a fine instrument like a bow together and have it be in a working condition. Also, a surplus is impossible since the fight is on nuetral ground away from both sides home cities.
So wookie guns and na’vi bows are both susceptible to be broken and become useless, however this would happen to wookies less.
Also, na’vi spears are a one time use (at least when considering that the na’vi probably won’t get close enough to use them for melee, thus rendering them one time use thrown weapons.) Whereas wookie bowcasters can be used over and over.
“Why does everyone bring it down to technology when what they have is negligible at best…?”
well, if l flying assault vehicles, bombs, and laser guns are negligible then yes, i would have to agree.
And if wookie tech is so negligible, then what is na’vi tech? Downright stone-age?
bad tech is better than no tech any day.
“well, if l flying assault vehicles, bombs, and laser guns are negligible then yes, i would have to agree. ”
Hrrmmm? Did you read the OP? Here:
“Wookiees get…
Bowcasters
Ryyk Blades
Bladesticks
Na’vi get…
Hunting Bows
Hunting Knives
Bolas”
Do you see anything about vehicles? Or animals for aid for the Navi? I sure don’t. Or perhaps the explosives that you’re mentioning too.
Nevermind the fact that Wookies also can’t manufacture more ammo while the Navi can. In this case a battle of attrition also goes to the Navi.
Oh, a battle of attrition, when the Wookies run out of ammo, they would have to resort to using the local materials, and make some sort of makeshift crossbow or something.If it boils down to that, then the Na’vi’s familiarity of their own weapons could be an advantage.
I forgot, what does a Bowcaster look like again?
“And if wookie tech is so negligible, then what is na’vi tech? Downright stone-age?”
Um, yes?
*English soldiers vs zulus : less than a hundred men with guns fought off waves of zulus numbering in the hundreds. zulu’s had primitive spears*
tony i have seen the movie of this and i don’t know if this part of it is true but the zulu did have some guns that they looted off of some other british troops they fought
and the brit’s won due to superoir tactics and tech not just tech alone.that and the zulu aim worse than stormtroopers.
you know i dont care what the rules are because whoever made them is an idiot. Why wouldn’t wookies have their bombs and vehicles? sounds like someone wants to stack the odds in the na’vi’s favour. thats immature and it shows that they have no real argument.
While arrows are easier to fashion, this bonus is outweighed by the fact you can carry only so many at once (as much as can fit in a quiver) and you have to be concerned with weight. Wookies however will find it hard to make bullets, power cells, or whatever, but this outweighed by the fact that they can easily take many extra clips with them. Reloading is also easier for wookies because they can slip in a clip and be good for 30 plus shots, wheres bows must reload every time and in the middle of combat this can be difficult.
Wookies guns have more advantages
Random Whiny U.N.S.C Marine,
I think in real life the Zulus had some guns, which makes it even more impressive. 30-50 british troops beating hundreds of zulus, some of which have guns.
“Why wouldn’t wookies have their bombs and vehicles? sounds like someone wants to stack the odds in the na’vi’s favour. thats immature and it shows that they have no real argument. ”
No, we have posted equipment for both sides. Now if this were as-is vs as-is then the wookie’s stomp because of the same equipment you mentioned. If you feel it’s that unfair you could whine and bitch and complain to the admin or the person that posted the match to get it changed. Until then both sides ONLY have what is posted.
“Wookies guns have more advantages”
But it’s not large enough to be the sole reason for victory.
never said that was enough to be the sole reason for victory.
also, thanks for agreeing with me. “Now if this were as-is vs as-is then the wookie’s stomp because of the same equipment you mentioned” Glad to see we are on the same side here suddenly.
So that just goes to show that if it were a fair fight wookies stomp and even with people who cant form an argument bending the rules to help na’vi the wookies still win.
Now, i don’t think it’s fair though to say im whining and bitching. Since when did I do that? The only person who is getting angry is you.
“But it’s not large enough to be the sole reason for victory.”
it really kind of is… seeing as that Na’vi lack any advantages over the Wookies, not to mention the huge ammunition advantage Wookies have considering Wookie warriors carry a bandolier of bowcaster ammo, whereas, the Na’vi are limited to a quiver, and Wookies can get off at least five shots before the Na’vi can get two
Dont forget bowcasters give away the firers position a lot more then a bow.
“you know i dont care what the rules are because whoever made them is an idiot. Why wouldn’t wookies have their bombs and vehicles? sounds like someone wants to stack the odds in the na’vi’s favour. thats immature and it shows that they have no real argument.”
This is my thread and I’m the “idiot” that made the rules. Don’t like it? Suck it up and put your big girl panties on. I made these rules as to not make it a stomp for either side. Also I’ve been supporting the Wookies for this entire thread.
Fuck off.
Why wouldn’t you give wookies what is fairly theirs and what they actually own? It just doesn’t make sense. Having a stomp means someone won.
“it really kind of is… seeing as that Na’vi lack any advantages over the Wookies, not to mention the huge ammunition advantage Wookies have considering Wookie warriors carry a bandolier of bowcaster ammo, whereas, the Na’vi are limited to a quiver, and Wookies can get off at least five shots before the Na’vi can get two”
With no resources mentioned (Your call NZ) we can only assume that they have the ammo that they are currently carrying on their body at the time. So the battle of attrition STILL goes to Navi. Even if they can only carry so much they can still make a potentially limitless supply (given the location) whereas the Wookies are going to be conserving ammo and–if thinking tactically– restrict themselves to melee.
“Why wouldn’t you give wookies what is fairly theirs and what they actually own?”
Then there would be no point in debating.
“Having a stomp means someone won.”
Trust me, the Wookies win this, just not stomp this.
Look, this is a forested area, how on earth are vehicles, never mind ships, gonna fit inside?
And if those vehicles get hijacked, forest equals many hiding places? The Na’vi may or may not know how to operate them, but they can still salvage the vehicles for weapons.
And it’s not like the Wookies can’t fashion repeating crossbows from the local environment should they run out of Bowcasters.
If you’re gonna make a crossbow without metal arms you may as well just make a normal bow; not that we even know if they have the knowledge to fashion a bow or crossbow with only basic tools.
“With no resources mentioned (Your call NZ) we can only assume that they have the ammo that they are currently carrying on their body at the time. So the battle of attrition STILL goes to Navi. Even if they can only carry so much they can still make a potentially limitless supply (given the location) whereas the Wookies are going to be conserving ammo and–if thinking tactically– restrict themselves to melee.”
have you seen how much ammo is on a Wookie’s bandolier, which every warrior has on them at all times, they would have no need to conserve ammunition, though I must ask NZ are the Wookies allowed their bandoliers?
“And it’s not like the Wookies can’t fashion repeating crossbows from the local environment should they run out of Bowcasters.”
the bowcasters themselves can be used to fire wooden bolts with slight modifications
@ Cananatra
Unfortunately, the Wookies are more accustomed to crossbows, and if their Bowcasters are broken, they will have to resort to creating a makeshift weapon from scratch, and if they are fighting a war, they will have no choice but to learn how to make one.
In Courtship of Princess Leia(8ABY), Chewie rips the arm off of a Nightsister … and he didn’t start out in reach of her.
So it’s not just hyperbolistic feat.
That he did it to a Nightsister is even more impressive (even though she might have been checking out Isolder at the time).
Here’s the quote, don’t have the page number, though it’s from the very beginning of Chapter 23:
“Isolder carried the window to Chewbacca, held it up for a moment as the Wookiee searched with his hairy paws to grab a bolt so that he could fasten the new window to the Falcon. The Wookiee’s hands were shaking in fear.
Behind them, Isolder heard a voice that sounded almost distant, even though the woman shouted, “Gethzerion, I’ve found them!”
Isolder spun, dropped the window. A Nightsister stood in the doorway, panting. Isolder pulled his blaster, fired, and the Nightsister waved her hand, knocked the blaster bolt away.
“Well,” she said. “You’re a pretty one. I think I’ll keep you.”
Chewbacca roared and leaped at the Nightsister, and she backed up a step. Chewie dodged aside as if to pass her while retreating from the room, and the Nightsister lurched back. The Wookiee had snatched off the Nightsister’s arm so fast that Isolder had never even seen it.
She gazed at the bloody stump of her shoulder, and Isolder fired again. The Nightsister went down.”
“have you seen how much ammo is on a Wookie’s bandolier, which every warrior has on them at all times, they would have no need to conserve ammunition, though I must ask NZ are the Wookies allowed their bandoliers?”
If it’s something they have at all times then it wouldn’t make much sense for them not to. They can have their bandoliers.
““Having a stomp means someone won.”
Trust me, the Wookies win this, just not stomp this.”
I’ll just take your word for it then.
“have you seen how much ammo is on a Wookie’s bandolier, which every warrior has on them at all times, they would have no need to conserve ammunition, though I must ask NZ are the Wookies allowed their bandoliers?”
Would you be kind enough to provide a guess (preferably with a picture if possible) as to how much each Wookie would carry?
“the bowcasters themselves can be used to fire wooden bolts with slight modifications”
Proof.
“In Courtship of Princess Leia(8ABY), Chewie rips the arm off of a Nightsister … and he didn’t start out in reach of her.”
EU…
““In Courtship of Princess Leia(8ABY), Chewie rips the arm off of a Nightsister … and he didn’t start out in reach of her.”
EU…”
Goddamn-ever-changing canon policy. Why the fuck can’t they just stick with something?
“If you really want to be that way then EU canon is allowed in this match because I’m sick of all Star Wars argumants turning into canon arguments so I’m nippin’ this bitch in the bud before it starts.” – Negative Zero
“Goddamn-ever-changing canon policy. Why the fuck can’t they just stick with something?”
it hasn’t changed, EU has been and always will be canon… it just does not supercede the movies canon, unless it is a sourcebook specifically dealing with specific items
““If you really want to be that way then EU canon is allowed in this match because I’m sick of all Star Wars argumants turning into canon arguments so I’m nippin’ this bitch in the bud before it starts.” – Negative Zero”
Sorry, I forgot about this hissy-fit.
“it hasn’t changed, EU has been and always will be canon… it just does not supercede the movies canon, unless it is a sourcebook specifically dealing with specific items”
Actually, it has changed multiple times. George Lucas will say something and contradict someone else at LA and vice verse. However, the latest inverviews on anyone with any kind of say-so in the matter all agree for once.
That said EU is canon but in a separate and alternate universe. So unless otherwise stated we’ll use movie-verse only.
oh yeah, sorry, I had a really long post about wookie bandoliers (seriously, I had four paragraphs about damn bandoliers) with pictures and everything and my computer froze, I’ll try to get it up tomorrow
What about the clone wars that are canon? They are all decent shots in that.
Whatever the bowcaster range might be it is unlikely that they will be using much of it in the short line of sight of the dense jungle, and the na’vi bows would be in the same situation so maximum range considerations are kind of moot.
” “have you seen how much ammo is on a Wookie’s bandolier, which every warrior has on them at all times, they would have no need to conserve ammunition, though I must ask NZ are the Wookies allowed their bandoliers?” ”
If they are using blaster clips than that would be a lot, if they are actually using quarrels with a ‘plasma sheathe’ like some of the sources say then it is not a whole lot. The na’vi arrows, while they probably do not carry as many at a time are reusable and a thing the size of an infantry spear would be a lot easier to find and recover in the jungle than a finger sized or at most pencil sized bolt that is probably burned by the plasma anyway. As to the durability of the wood used in the bows and arrows, remember that they are probably nanotube reinforced like just about everything else on pandora.
hey guys don’t want change the subject but would 3 wookies vs 3 predators unarmed
“hey guys don’t want change the subject but would 3 wookies vs 3 predators unarmed”
That might end up going to the Predators….I’m not sure though.
The Na’vi could take the high ground by climbing up trees. Still don’t know how much of an edge it gives them though.
Wouldn’t 3 Wookies vs 3 Predators also depend on whether or not the former’s group has force-users among the 3, or are we using ‘Regular’ Wookies for such a confrontation?