Suggested by Anime Hero Kevin
Aang is from Avatar (The Last Airbender). He’s going against Naruto from the Anime/Manga Series Naruto. Aang has fought another Naruto character on Factpile before, but this time he’s going against the Main Character of the series. Aang is a master of the four elements while Naruto is the third jinchūriki of the Nine-Tailed Demon Fox.
Can Aang over come the Number One Hyperactive Knucklehead Ninja? Or will Naruto’s knowledge of the Ninja Arts out match the knowledge of the four elements?
EDIT: The Location is at the Forest of Death and close there is the battle ground were Lee and Kimimaru fought as Kevin added
Huh. I’m…Honestly surprised this hasn’t come up yet.
Does Aang get the Avatar state? If not, he’s at a disadvantage.
This is going to be good…
Naruto takes the cake, believe it.
“Does Aang get the Avatar state? If not, he’s at a disadvantage.”
It’s an ability so I don’t see why he wouldn’t have it. Unless AHK comes back and for some reason takes it away.
“Naruto takes the cake, believe it.”
Lol, does he still say that?
“Unless AHK comes back and for some reason takes it away.”
Please Lowk…..don’t jinx us all.
For this match-up, I believe Naruto will end up winning due to his cloning ability that will massively outnumber Aang but I’m going to stick on the side lines here to provide clarification or back up for Aang in case it’s needed. This could prove interesting as a match-up though.
I miss AHK aka the hero of anime.
sorry to say but naruto takes this and if the nine tails get involved than it’s a stomp..
“Does Aang get the Avatar state? If not, he’s at a disadvantage.”
No reason why not. Current incarnation for both characters as nothing is stated to the contrary.
“Naruto takes the cake, believe it.”
Not sure about all that. Sure, physical strength easily goes to Naruto. Speed is debatable for either if we disregard the lightning timing as both are only provable to be in the super sonic range. Aang still has a mobility advantage from flight and has superior ranged attacks though.
“For this match-up, I believe Naruto will end up winning due to his cloning ability that will massively outnumber Aang but I’m going to stick on the side lines here to provide clarification or back up for Aang in case it’s needed. This could prove interesting as a match-up though.”
Even base form Aang has scale enough with his elemental manipulation (as well as flight) to take care of the kage bunshin army.
“sorry to say but naruto takes this and if the nine tails get involved than it’s a stomp..”
Man, the evidence is just stacking up!
I’m thus far undecided based on everything I know of both combatants.
well, from what it seems, both took a direct hit from a lightning based attack (not sure if chidori is actually as strong as real lightning, and same for azula’s), and lived. However, that was when aang was in the avatar state. Naruto survived before he went 1 tail back in season 1. since then, naruto has pretty much been getting stronger.
Currently, he was able to dodge a punch from the Raikage when he was at max speed. Only his father was said to be able to dodge it before now. This was when naruto was in his tailed-beast mode.
I’m just waiting for someone to go “HERP DERP RAIKAGE IS FASTEST!” and use that unproven and biased line from the series to suggest that Raikage and Naruto are faster than a gated Gai (mach 5+) for debates.
I don’t read the manga, but from what I understand Naruto has taken control of the Kubii’s chakra which should make him a walking WMD in terms of power.
I think I heard somewhere that he also learned a teleportation jutsu, but I could be wrong.
Either way Sage mode + Kubii chakra + shadow clones = one ninja clone army superpower speedblitz with rasengan/shurikan on top.
Don’t know squat about Aang, so I can’t say if this will 1HKO him.
“Please Lowk…..don’t jinx us all.”
What could possibly be wrong with AHK coming back?
“However, that was when aang was in the avatar state.”
He was in the process of trying to achieve control of avatar state but was cut short by azula via lightning rape to the back.
Pressed submit early-
So not actual avatar state more like a trance to finally reach it.
AHK is back? As if ladidala wasn’t enough now………..
would the rasengan ever work? i mean aangs and air bending master, couldnt he just stop the air from spinning (correct me if im wrong)
Rasengan is spinned primarily by chakra, not air. Sang would probably be able to divert or stop a shoehorn rasengan, but not the spinning itself. Meaning, if Naruto connects it in close combat, it would be the same as we’ve seen previously.
I don’t think he would connect it at range, but that is not his preferred method of delivery anyways.
A pretty close match I’d have to say..
On physical strength, probably Naruto for obvious reasons. On endurance, Naruto given that he’s decedent from the Uzumaki Clan who are in turn distant relatives from the Senju Clan so he’s blessed with high endurance, physical energy, longevity, and also the nine-tails chakra. On hand-to-hand combat I’d have to give it to Aang. Not that’s it’s used much in the televeision series, but considering he’s a master of the 4 elements which are based on 4 styles of martial arts, he’s technically a master of those 4 different martial art forms as well. On individual abilities, probably Aang again. Naruto doesn’t have a wide array of ninjutsu or genjutsu to work with besides all of his variations of the rasengen, the rasenshuriken, and shadowclone. Aang, on the other hand, has a multitude to choose from assuming he’s surrounded by plenty of water and earth to make the match fair. On agility, could be a close tie between the two. Naruto has demonstrated pretty common ninja feats. such as backflips and whatnot. Aang, as an airbender, is naturally agile and his bending only makes it easier. On range, Aang again. On super special awesome mode (Aang in one-bending avatar mode and Naruto in sage mode), Naruto. On EX plus alpha mode (Aang in four-bending avatar mode and Naruto in Fox-Chakra mode), it’s debatable since we haven’t seen much feats. on Naruto aside from insane speed.
I think like most anime battles, speed is what’s going to take the cake. Normal modes, Aang would probably be faster being able to bend the air currents around him to reduce friction as we’ve seen him run faster than the human eye could see. When Naruto is in his other modes, however, he’s clearly faster than Aang. So yeah.. did some comparisons on stats, but still not sure which would come out on top.
“What could possibly be wrong with AHK coming back?”
Were you not there for the events of Dante vs Lobo or Naruto vs Luffy?
Thinking about it though, if he came back, we’d get some entertainment with those comments of his…
I think Aang could take away Naruto’s chakra fueled abilities if he manages to successfully Energy Bend him like he did with Ozai. Chi flow is very important to allowing Bending (as explained by Ty Lee), and Aang managed to completely remove Ozai’s ability to Fire Bend; I’m sure there is a connection. Chakra and Chi is basically interchangable, so yeah.
Of course Aang actually getting the opportunity to attempt to Energy Bend Naruto is going to be the trick, but I think that if he does manage to take away Naruto’s chakra abilities that will basically end this match.
didn’t aang react. to lighting?? If so naruto’s speed wouldnt mean a thing.
“didn’t aang react. to lighting?? If so naruto’s speed wouldnt mean a thing.”
Kinda. When Ozai was amped up on Comet power,base Aang narrowly intercapted the bolt and redirected it. Buuuut, given that this was base Aang and characters like Iroh and Zuko did the same I’m not sure it can be compared to full-blown lightning.
“I think Aang could take away Naruto’s chakra fueled abilities if he manages to successfully Energy Bend him like he did with Ozai. Chi flow is very important to allowing Bending (as explained by Ty Lee), and Aang managed to completely remove Ozai’s ability to Fire Bend; I’m sure there is a connection. Chakra and Chi is basically interchangable, so yeah.”
Energy-bedning should effect Chakra, but the problem is Aang would probably be overwhelmed by the demon fox. I mean he was very nearly corrupted by Ozai, who despite his vast power was basically just a bastard of a human.
Aren’t Iroh and Zuko like the third and fourth best fire benders on the planet? They are supposedly top tier martial artists despite their ages. Not sure discrediting Aang’s ability to react to lightning because they both have is really a solid argument.
“Aren’t Iroh and Zuko like the third and fourth best fire benders on the planet? ”
True.
“They are supposedly top tier martial artists despite their ages. ”
Also true.
“Not sure discrediting Aang’s ability to react to lightning because they both have is really a solid argument.”
While they are skilled, they’re still effectively human. They never showed any other speed/reaction feats that suggest full blown lightning timing and in every instance the characters seemed to be straining just to come close to catching the bolt.
I’ve never implied that they are full blown lightning timers. Just suggesting that discrediting Aang for the feat of being able to achieve this kind of reaction timing at least some of the time because they both have done it, even if only just barely may not be a good argument.
Naruto easy. The fact is that even without the Shukaku, Gaara was able to make a very admirable fight against Aang, and Naruto along with the power of the nine-tailed demon fox and his “Sage mode” this is just not even much of a fair fight. Not to mention the Demon fox’s ability to regenerate Naruto’s health–to a limited extent–just makes this too much for the Airbender to go up against.
On hand-to-hand combat I’d have to give it to Aang. Not that’s it’s used much in the televeision series, but considering he’s a master of the 4 elements which are based on 4 styles of martial arts, he’s technically a master of those 4 different martial art forms as well
This is one thing I wish to get a better knowledge on. The bending styles are based off fighting styles, but they are not really fighting styles.
Katara is considered a water bending master, but proved to be a weak fighter without water aiding her (as seen with her fight against Ty Lee). The same shown for Toph (though that is because she is blind) and Fire Benders during the Day of the Black Sun (though they were against benders of other elements). The only benders who showed fighting mastery without bending was Iroh (who escaped prison during the Black Sun) and Azula (who, with the help of earth benders, held off Toph, Aang and Sokka for a good while).
@ AkumaTh
Knowing the moves does not make one a master martial artist. Knowing when to use them, and having it be trained in to you until it has become as natural as breathing is how one becomes a good fighter. Employing these move sets for bending is nothing at all like using them for physical combat. We can see with Aang that his air bending is as natural as breathing, he does it with out even thinking, but do we actually see him USING his martial arts with out the use of air bending? It is so much a part of him that he no longer -think- to do it, he reacts and it occurs because the air itself is as much of an extension of him as his own arm or leg. That is key to martial arts, and it is key to bending, but they are exclusive to each other in the sense of knowing when to use each move depending on which school of combat you wish to employ in that particular moment. Because of this, knowing Aang’s actual martial arts capabilities may never be possible. He’d probably be awful though, because, as I said, the air is practically another limb to him. Removing his bending would literally be akin to making someone fight with one arm tied behind their back.
That having been said, a full fledged Avatar can do virtually anything they want. They have -absolute- control over the elements. While in the Avatar State there is probably nothing Naruto can do against someone who is essentially a God, with the knowledge of countless generations of Avatars at work to combat him. You will be hard pressed to find someone who competes with another that can move entire land masses as easily as they wave their hand. When it comes down to it, the other Avatars are more interested in results and balance than fair fighting and showing kindness. If it became a desperate enough fight I don’t see what would stop one of them from eventually just blood bending Naruto to a stop. Or another old avatar from cracking open the earth beneath him into a wide canyon to consume him alive, or turning the whole battlefield in to a raging white fire/electrical storm, or just pulling the air out of his lungs, or some other crazy and quick method to kill him. Ozai was no match for Aang in the Avatar State, and it never came down to Aang being -forced- to do something drastic to win… If Naruto became too big of a threat, though… Game Over.
hey any body know how 2 get a profile pic i 4got
@jhud.
Gravatar.com and use the same e-mail address as you Factpile account.
“I don’t read the manga, but from what I understand Naruto has taken control of the Kubii’s chakra which should make him a walking WMD in terms of power.”
No, he couldn’t control the bijuu bomb attack enough. His training was interrupted.
“I think I heard somewhere that he also learned a teleportation jutsu, but I could be wrong.”
I’m the one that claimed it but there’s no definitive proof.
“Either way Sage mode + Kubii chakra + shadow clones = one ninja clone army superpower speedblitz with rasengan/shurikan on top.”
Only 3 kage bunshin tops with sage mode. Besides, shadow clones are not the best option for this.
“What could possibly be wrong with AHK coming back?”
Everything.
“would the rasengan ever work? i mean aangs and air bending master, couldnt he just stop the air from spinning (correct me if im wrong)”
It’s not spinning air in either the standard or Rasen Shuriken configurations but rather elemental chakra.
“I don’t think he would connect it at range, but that is not his preferred method of delivery anyways.”
Yeah, his thrown version doesn’t seem all that fast.
“On hand-to-hand combat I’d have to give it to Aang. Not that’s it’s used much in the televeision series, but considering he’s a master of the 4 elements which are based on 4 styles of martial arts, he’s technically a master of those 4 different martial art forms as well. ”
Yeah, but what about his physical level? Current calcs on Naruto’s strength give him the physical strength to bench press the empire state building.
“I think Aang could take away Naruto’s chakra fueled abilities if he manages to successfully Energy Bend him like he did with Ozai. Chi flow is very important to allowing Bending (as explained by Ty Lee), and Aang managed to completely remove Ozai’s ability to Fire Bend; I’m sure there is a connection. Chakra and Chi is basically interchangable, so yeah.”
Yeah, chakra=chi. Chakra as a name was simply fucked up anyway as “chakra” (by the mythos of the real world) is the name of the points in your body that chi flows through.
“but I think that if he does manage to take away Naruto’s chakra abilities that will basically end this match.”
That it would. However, as far as can be proven all that can be done is taking away elemental affinities. Naruto still has a slew of abilities that go beyond elemental manipulation.
“Naruto easy. The fact is that even without the Shukaku, Gaara was able to make a very admirable fight against Aang, and Naruto along with the power of the nine-tailed demon fox and his “Sage mode” this is just not even much of a fair fight. Not to mention the Demon fox’s ability to regenerate Naruto’s health–to a limited extent–just makes this too much for the Airbender to go up against.”
I still haven’t seen anything to give a definitive win to either side…
i am jhuds brother and i pick naruto and thats it
“Were you not there for the events of Dante vs Lobo or Naruto vs Luffy?”
Yeah and I enjoyed every word of it.
“Kinda. When Ozai was amped up on Comet power,base Aang narrowly intercapted the bolt and redirected it.”
He dodged them the first few times before that.
“Energy-bedning should effect Chakra, but the problem is Aang would probably be overwhelmed by the demon fox. I mean he was very nearly corrupted by Ozai, who despite his vast power was basically just a bastard of a human.”
How was it sealed before?
“The only benders who showed fighting mastery without bending was Iroh (who escaped prison during the Black Sun) and Azula (who, with the help of earth benders, held off Toph, Aang and Sokka for a good while).”
Zuko as well whenever he had to hide his firebending. Iirc Aang also had to do the same when hiding in the fire nation.
Endurance wise, Aang can take a good deal of pain.
Aang survived
-Iroh hitting him with a blast that heated stone red hot then blasted apart sending Aang flying.
-Body lasted being frozen for 100 years without food or water.
-Hitting a statute face first then dropping a few feet.
-He can also turn earth into armor.
I think there might be a few others but I’m on my phone and looking up videos is a pain.
im jhud brother i pick both and thats all
@ABURN
Wow. Way to think. i know loyalty to family is a good thing…..but……
“-Iroh hitting him”
Meant Ozai.
im jhuds brother i pick naruto that is it
“Yeah, but what about his physical level? Current calcs on Naruto’s strength give him the physical strength to bench press the empire state building.”
Well, Aang’s biggest physical strength feat that I can think of off the top of my head is during the second season of the show when Aang held back Toph in her rock armor during their training but that pales in comparison to Naruto’s strength if it’s as high as you say it is.
“-Iroh hitting him with a blast that heated stone red hot then blasted apart sending Aang flying.”
Iroh? Do you mean Ozai?
“That having been said, a full fledged Avatar can do virtually anything they want. They have -absolute- control over the elements. While in the Avatar State there is probably nothing Naruto can do against someone who is essentially a God, with the knowledge of countless generations of Avatars at work to combat him. You will be hard pressed to find someone who competes with another that can move entire land masses as easily as they wave their hand. When it comes down to it, the other Avatars are more interested in results and balance than fair fighting and showing kindness. If it became a desperate enough fight I don’t see what would stop one of them from eventually just blood bending Naruto to a stop. Or another old avatar from cracking open the earth beneath him into a wide canyon to consume him alive, or turning the whole battlefield in to a raging white fire/electrical storm, or just pulling the air out of his lungs, or some other crazy and quick method to kill him. Ozai was no match for Aang in the Avatar State, and it never came down to Aang being -forced- to do something drastic to win… If Naruto became too big of a threat, though… Game Over.”
While this is all true Aang has never demonstrated this level of power in the show before. The closest thing he’s ever done in that state that were remotely close to feats by Roku and Kyoshi were the Book One finale when he wiped out the Fire Navy fleet and army and in Book Three when he pulled the tides in to wash away the debris. He’s never shown the same destructive power as his past lives due to the limited amount of time we get to see him in the Avatar State. Knowledge of all past lives is one thing but have we seen him do anything like that in the series?
“Meant Ozai.”
Oops, disregard the correction in my post on this Lowk. My bad.
Flesh…..Bone….and Bile! How delicious.
About the actual match though, I’m inclined toward Naruto. Aang seems hesitant to inflict a simple flesh wound. Naruto on the other hand doesn’t seem to hesitate when killing or even drawing his own blood. This may just be PIS and immediatley disregarded but hey, just putting it out there.
Ah, finally.
So, I’m inclined to say Aang, because if he goes avatar state then Naruto might be in for it.
Unless of course, he’s going nine-tail fox, controlled state.
Then Aang’s probably screwed.
Also, Aang took away Ozai’s bending. Could that help?
@braille
In matches involving characters like Aang, it’s a bit difficult on whether or not we disregard CIS like a no kill rule or not in debates. If we didn’t, Aang would never kill anyone. Batman would only go for incapacitation. Superman would never go all out instantly.
It’s somewhat of a tricky issue to decide but I do believe we have to disregard crippling CIS issues like that one. Could be wrong though.
Also, Aang took away Ozai’s bending. Could that help?
If chakra = chi, then that would help. But it would have to pass the cloak of the Nine Tails to do so, which I don’t think he could.
“Aren’t Iroh and Zuko like the third and fourth best fire benders on the planet? They are supposedly top tier martial artists despite their ages. Not sure discrediting Aang’s ability to react to lightning because they both have is really a solid argument.”
Actually, Iroh and Ozai were said to be about an even match, so they’re a tie on No. 1 most skilled firebender. No. 2 would be Azula given that she’s a prodigy with blue fire and all. She only lost to Zuko because she went bonkers with her paranoia and the utter rejection by her father towards the end. Don’t know how Zuko would place. Never really thought of him as anything special.
“This is one thing I wish to get a better knowledge on. The bending styles are based off fighting styles, but they are not really fighting styles.”
Actually, they are. Azula has demonstrated remarkable fighting techniques which were basically just her with firebending forms minus the firebending.. like when she took on the Kyoshi warriors.
And airbending is based on Ba Gua which we’ve seen Aang use a lot when confronting enemies, mainly for defense.
“Katara is considered a water bending master, but proved to be a weak fighter without water aiding her (as seen with her fight against Ty Lee).”
Yeah, I know. But the fact of the matter is the avatarverse is based on bending and not quite martial arts. And it’s not really fair to discredit Katara in her fight against Ty Lee considering that while taking away her bending, she also paralyzed her.. and there’s also the fact that she hadn’t faced her before. The second time they faced off, Katara was able to dodge her as was Suki in her rematch with Ty Lee.
“The same shown for Toph (though that is because she is blind)”
Well, when has her bending ever been taken away from her? She’s never had to rely on hand-to-hand with her bending. And without her bending, she wouldn’t be able to “see” her opponents without earth and would therefore be unable to fight anyways.
“and Fire Benders during the Day of the Black Sun (though they were against benders of other elements).”
Exactly. I see where you’re coming from, but there have been other instances of characters using just martial arts instead of bending, like when Zuko had rescued Iroh from those earthbenders.
There’s never been an instance when benders of both elements lost both their bending abilities and had to rely on hand-to-hand. Only and instance where one lost theirs such as the earthbenders who were kidnapped or when that admiral guy killed the moon spirit. The earthbenders and waterbenders aren’t exactly going to tai chi or hung gar a nation of people that can set them on fire at a distance.
“The only benders who showed fighting mastery without bending was Iroh (who escaped prison during the Black Sun) and Azula (who, with the help of earth benders, held off Toph, Aang and Sokka for a good while).”
Yeah, there’s Iroh and Azula, but also Zuko and Aang.
“I’m the one that claimed it but there’s no definitive proof.”
Didn’t Naruto say that his dad taught him? And since the Fourth’s space time jutsu is the only known tech faster than the Raikage, I assume that’s what Naruto did..
“Yeah, but what about his physical level? Current calcs on Naruto’s strength give him the physical strength to bench press the empire state building.”
I noted that on physical prowess, Naruto wins. He’s easily stronger than Aang in normal mode, sage mode, nine-tails mode, and nine-tails chakra mode.
“While this is all true Aang has never demonstrated this level of power in the show before. The closest thing he’s ever done in that state that were remotely close to feats by Roku and Kyoshi were the Book One finale when he wiped out the Fire Navy fleet and army and in Book Three when he pulled the tides in to wash away the debris. He’s never shown the same destructive power as his past lives due to the limited amount of time we get to see him in the Avatar State. Knowledge of all past lives is one thing but have we seen him do anything like that in the series?”
He’s the Avatar.. which means he CAN do anything that the past avatars have shown to do and more since within each generation, the avatar supposedly grows stronger (with more wisdom and all). That means he’s capable of creating Tsunamis, wield enough lava to recreate “pompei”, vast tornadoes, and massive earthquakes. Theoretically, Aang could forcibly drown Naruto or even suffocate him by bending the air around and in him.
And I’m assuming that while on the verge of death or after Naruto is killed, the nine-tails doesn’t rip out of his stomach and roam free to attack Aang..
@ I-speak-braille
The point of the match is to see who’s abilities trump who’s. That being said, such CIS is ignored to allow the competitor (Aang) to strive for and achieve victory.
“Didn’t Naruto say that his dad taught him? And since the Fourth’s space time jutsu is the only known tech faster than the Raikage, I assume that’s what Naruto did..”
Not sure about being taught but it’s untrue about Raikage. In provable speeds and feats Raikage is only really in the top 5 in the Naruto-verse. Right now Gai using the 6th/7th gate is the fastest at mach 5+.
Also, Minato (despite Raikage’s own words) wasn’t the only one to dodge his blows.
“I noted that on physical prowess, Naruto wins. He’s easily stronger than Aang in normal mode, sage mode, nine-tails mode, and nine-tails chakra mode.”
Yep. No contest in this way. All of those require Naruto to actually grab Aang though.
“He’s the Avatar.. which means he CAN do anything that the past avatars have shown to do and more since within each generation, the avatar supposedly grows stronger (with more wisdom and all). That means he’s capable of creating Tsunamis, wield enough lava to recreate “pompei”, vast tornadoes, and massive earthquakes. Theoretically, Aang could forcibly drown Naruto or even suffocate him by bending the air around and in him. ”
Kind of the point I was trying to make earlier in regards to the Kage bunshin army idea.
“And I’m assuming that while on the verge of death or after Naruto is killed, the nine-tails doesn’t rip out of his stomach and roam free to attack Aang..”
Possible but it contradicts the statements earlier in the series that if the host dies then the bijuu dies. Nothing’s canonically proven though.
“If it became a desperate enough fight I don’t see what would stop one of them from eventually just blood bending Naruto to a stop. Or another old avatar from cracking open the earth beneath him into a wide canyon to consume him alive, or turning the whole battlefield in to a raging white fire/electrical storm, or just pulling the air out of his lungs, or some other crazy and quick method to kill him.”
Has Blood bending been shown by the past avatars? If not then Aang would have no knowledge of how to do so. Also was Aang taught to generate lightning or just how to redirect it?
“Aang seems hesitant to inflict a simple flesh wound. Naruto on the other hand doesn’t seem to hesitate when killing or even drawing his own blood. This may just be PIS and immediatley disregarded but hey, just putting it out there.”
I think there’s rule for that for characters that don’t normally kill. Also Aang did try to hit Ozai with a blast that eroded stone and several high velocity stones so he does have some form of killer instinct.
“Current calcs on Naruto’s strength give him the physical strength to bench press the empire state building.”
That’s from my calc in the Spiderman vs Naruto thread, where I calculated the force necessary to throw the Rhino. It initially gave Naruto a 450,000 metric ton lifting capacity, because I used scaling to determine that the Rhino is 5,000 tons. Laharl called me out on the whole density thing, and after a bit of research, I realized this 5,000 ton figure was probably unrealistic due to the fact that many dinosaurs weighed only 20 – 40 tons and even the blue whale only weights 200 tons. I’ve yet to fully correct myself in that thread ( although I did admit that Laharl had a point ), but I might as well now since it may be relevant in this thread.
I re did the calc using the same calculations on the other thread with an assumed mass of 50-100 tons ( This is generous considering this the Rhino is nearly twice as tall as some of the tallest dinosaurs and is significaly more bulky than sauropods, whose height is mostly attributed to their thin neck. The Rhino is quite nearing blue-whale proportions in fact; and a blue whale would have to be much less dense than the Rhino for buoyancy purposes ), and it gave Naruto a 3,000-8,000 ton lifting capacity. It’s a far cry from the “450,000 ton Empire State Building lifting claim”, but it’s still enough to benchpress 50-100 of your average sized house/home all at once. Still comparable, if not outright superior, to Spiderman’s building lifting feat and still more than enough for Naruto to destroy Aang in close combat while in Sage Mode.
As CIDE said nothing is truly set in stone yet about whether or not the bijuu in fact dies if Naruto is killed, but I would like to point this particular part: www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v56/c544/10.html from the latest chapter. Tsunade tries to convince Raikage that even if he were to kill Naruto they could still try and capture the Nine-Tails even though the host died. Nothing concrete, but it certainly gives us more evidence in favor of Sloth’s scenario.
“Not sure about being taught but it’s untrue about Raikage. In provable speeds and feats Raikage is only really in the top 5 in the Naruto-verse. Right now Gai using the 6th/7th gate is the fastest at mach 5+. ”
How is this proven? Raikage himself notes that he is now the fastest ninja. Possibly a boast, but it really doesn’t seem to be. And if 6th/7th gate Gai is indeed faster than the Raikage which himself being bested by the Fourth, how is he not famous for it or at least received any attention at all considering the Fourth was titled the “yellow flash”?
“Also, Minato (despite Raikage’s own words) wasn’t the only one to dodge his blows. ”
Who else has?
“Kind of the point I was trying to make earlier in regards to the Kage bunshin army idea.”
Wasn’t really expanding on your point.. was addressing another’s claim that Aang can’t demonstrate as much destructive power as the other avatars. That’s clearly untrue since he’s the avatar and as such he’s entitled to their wisdom and their abilities. That said, anything Kyoshi, Yang Chen, or Roku have done, Aang can as well.
“Possible but it contradicts the statements earlier in the series that if the host dies then the bijuu dies. Nothing’s canonically proven though.”
That’s what I suspect as well which is why I said on the verge of death since on the verge of death plus being weakened by child birth, Naruto’s mother didn’t have the strength to suppress the nine tails and it broke free.
“Has Blood bending been shown by the past avatars? If not then Aang would have no knowledge of how to do so. Also was Aang taught to generate lightning or just how to redirect it?”
Never been proven. Hama didn’t learn it, she developed the technique. Master waterbenders can only do it under the full moon. The avatar being all high and mighty could probably do it without it, but it’s not registered as one of Aang’s abilities since it’s not just applying waterbending to blood.. it seems to require a whole other bending form.
Still, Aang could airbend the air around and in Naruto to suffocate him or waterbend water into Naruto to drown him internally (since we’ve seen Katara waterbend water out of Aang’s lungs once.. and this was before she received formal training).
“Nothing concrete, but it certainly gives us more evidence in favor of Sloth’s scenario.”
My point was that anything dealing with the nine-tails escaping from his womb be disregarded since it’s a battle between Naruto and Aang. So if in the event Aang kills Naruto and the nine-tails breaks free, the fight ends with a victory and doesn’t continue with Aang vs. nine-tails. Or if Naruto is about to die and the nine-tails breaks free, it doesn’t come to Naruto’s rescue.
Even if he were to have Blood-bending it isn’t a match ending ability. I very much doubt that Aang could even hold Naruto for a few seconds before he overpowers it. Given the calculations that Enigma has presented whilst in Sage Mode, blood-bending will be of little use in this match.
Aang can’t even blood bend to begin with. No Avatar before him was said to know that ability, it was invented by Hama in the interval years between Roku’s death and Aang’s awakening.
Also, Sorrow, how will blood bending, if it were to be more than a nonfactor, be resisted by Naruto? Has he ever encountered anything similar to it before?
“I very much doubt that Aang could even hold Naruto for a few seconds before he overpowers it. Given the calculations that Enigma has presented whilst in Sage Mode, blood-bending will be of little use in this match.”
If he did have bloodbending he wouldn’t need to hold him. He could just drain Naruto of all the blood & water in his body then attack his bloodless corpse with his own blood…..
“Also, Sorrow, how will blood bending, if it were to be more than a nonfactor, be resisted by Naruto? Has he ever encountered anything similar to it before?”
Pain’s God Realm technique, basically being able to repulse or attract objects. It isn’t exactly the same, but it can provide control over a person’s body. The nine-tails was able to stand it’s ground to a force that was capable of annihilating the entirety of the Leaf Village.
“If he did have bloodbending he wouldn’t need to hold him. He could just drain Naruto of all the blood & water in his body then attack his bloodless corpse with his own blood…..”
Just realized how messed up that’d be. Bloodbending is like Invader Zim stealing children organs messed up.
“If he did have bloodbending he wouldn’t need to hold him. He could just drain Naruto of all the blood & water in his body then attack his bloodless corpse with his own blood…..”
I very much doubt Aang would do that, not even considering that it’s not in his character, we have not even seen any water benders have such a capability. It may very well be out of their range of ability.
“I very much doubt Aang would do that, not even considering that it’s not in his character, we have not even seen any water benders have such a capability. It may very well be out of their range of ability.”
Not true.. waterbending has been used to separate solvents from solutes before such as water from the pollution in the “painted lady” episode. Aang with his enhanced bending could surely do it.. Oh, and btw, Hama and Katara were able to draw water from fire lilies and full moon enhanced Katara and hama were able to do the same to trees; they basically drew the water out of them so fast that they emploded.
Seriously, guys. Aang doesn’t even have to firebend or earthbend. He could just airbend air from his lungs or the air around him so he can’t breathe or waterbend water into Naruto, drowning him internally or draw the water from his body, effectively killing him.
“Pain’s God Realm technique, basically being able to repulse or attract objects. It isn’t exactly the same, but it can provide control over a person’s body. The nine-tails was able to stand it’s ground to a force that was capable of annihilating the entirety of the Leaf Village.”
It’s not the same thing. What Naruto withstood was an external force: gravity. Bending his blood would be an internal force that Katara only, hypothetically, withstood due to her own bending abilities (or maybe since she drew power from the moon, she had some kind of immunity). With blood bending, Aang would be able to control the flow of his blood, direct it, redirect it, potentially cause his organs to fail among other things.
“That’s from my calc in the Spiderman vs Naruto thread, where I calculated the force necessary to throw the Rhino. It initially gave Naruto a 450,000 metric ton lifting capacity, because I used scaling to determine that the Rhino is 5,000 tons. Laharl called me out on the whole density thing, and after a bit of research, I realized this 5,000 ton figure was probably unrealistic due to the fact that many dinosaurs weighed only 20 – 40 tons and even the blue whale only weights 200 tons. I’ve yet to fully correct myself in that thread ( although I did admit that Laharl had a point ), but I might as well now since it may be relevant in this thread.”
I recall. Then again it’s a fictional universe where things that fly can’t, humans regularly tank impacts with similar kinetic energy to tank shots, and carry around 30 ton weights (I out of curiosity calced Lee’s weights based on when he dropped them and went with a LOW END estimate of 1 megajoule of kinetic energy to work backwards). Even using just 20-200 tons for realistic animals it still gives Naruto enough strength to tear Aang’s body apart if he can grab him.
“As CIDE said nothing is truly set in stone yet about whether or not the bijuu in fact dies if Naruto is killed, but I would like to point this particular part: www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v56/c544/10.html from the latest chapter. Tsunade tries to convince Raikage that even if he were to kill Naruto they could still try and capture the Nine-Tails even though the host died. Nothing concrete, but it certainly gives us more evidence in favor of Sloth’s scenario.”
Yeah, too many contradictory statements. But I also hold weight to the bijuu dying as it was the ninetails itself that said this. However, I do question how he knows considering no bijuu has died thus far.
“How is this proven? Raikage himself notes that he is now the fastest ninja. Possibly a boast, but it really doesn’t seem to be. And if 6th/7th gate Gai is indeed faster than the Raikage which himself being bested by the Fourth, how is he not famous for it or at least received any attention at all considering the Fourth was titled the “yellow flash”?”
Well, that’s the thing. It’s an unbacked boast right now. Raikage can say all he wants; until proven he isn’t above super sonic range whereas Gai is hyper sonic. Minato however will forever remain unmatched; you literally can’t move faster than “instant” short of time travel.
“Who else has?”
Sasuke, Naruto, Bee…
“Seriously, guys. Aang doesn’t even have to firebend or earthbend. He could just airbend air from his lungs or the air around him so he can’t breathe or waterbend water into Naruto, drowning him internally or draw the water from his body, effectively killing him.”
When has Aang ever even demonstrated an ability remotely similar to bending air out of one’s lungs….? That’s just hypothetical to say he can do that as he’s never done anything like that and going by his character, he’d most likely never kill Naruto with a move like that. Also, where’s Aang going to get water to bend in an unspecified environment?
Aang can’t blood bend nor draw water from sources such as the air or ground as Katara can simply because he’s never demonstrated those abilities before.
“With blood bending, Aang would be able to control the flow of his blood, direct it, redirect it, potentially cause his organs to fail among other things.”
There has yet to be a feat where they could even do something that complex. That includes air-bending the oxygen out of a person’s body.
I thought Aang doesnt know how to blood bend?
@Michael
Nope, there have not been any feats that show Aang Blood bending in the show.
“I very much doubt Aang would do that, not even considering that it’s not in his character,”
True.
“we have not even seen any water benders have such a capability. It may very well be out of their range of ability.”
Hama & Katara can drain water from organisms. They drained several plants & trees completely dry in “puppetmaster”. Not like it really matters unless she taught Aang to bend water from anywhere or a past avatar has.
Anyway couldn’t Aang hit Naruto with a blasts of air so hard that it becomes difficult to breath. Could that could be an effective way of weakening him?
“Also, where’s Aang going to get water t bend in an unspecified environment?”
Isn’t there a rule about the setting incorporating all elements for both side to operate at max. So wouldn’t that include a source of water?
“Anyway couldn’t Aang hit Naruto with a blasts of air so hard that it becomes difficult to breath. Could that could be an effective way of weakening him?”
Curious question. Why is the ongoing debate parting from the assumption that Naruto would just stand there and take it. Even if Aang managed to land an attack, he is considerably more likely to find himself with a face-full of Sage knucles delivered by the non-decoy Naruto.
The fact of the matter here is that however destructive both of them can be, only one of them practices lethal sneakery on a day to day basis. Aang may have power, but Naruto has both power and EXTREME combat tactics. Not really calling victory for him, though – I don’t know nearly enough about Aang to do such a thing – but just pointing out that Naruto seems to hold all the advantages here.
- Combat experience
- Wide range of abilities
- Inhuman speed, strength, and stamina
- Regeneration
- Multiple alternate energy sources
- Multiple combat forms and enhancements
- Multiple weapons
- Multiple summons
- And a pretty impressive resume in terms of usable feats
I always forget about Naruto’s genius mastery over the cloning techniques. Coming up with very complex and perfectly-timed tricks in a very short time span is definitely one of Naruto’s best points as a ninja. He will certainly be using this to his advantage throughout this match.
Then ichigo Kurosaki joined in…
But seriously,
“If he did have bloodbending he wouldn’t need to hold him. He could just drain Naruto of all the blood & water in his body then attack his bloodless corpse with his own blood…..”
And can’t ninjas survive a few minutes without air? Just enough time for Naruto to stop Aang.
I thought you can only bloodbend on a full moon?
A very common thing for Naruto to do is measure his opponent’s strength and skill by setting up clones while he hides away.There is no reason to believe he wouldn’t do the same against this foe.
Given how quickly he burrowed his way to Neji, and how much he has improved since then, I really do not doubt Aang could be defeated without any alternate forms being used. A decoy bunshin could be followed by a suddenly appearing wind rasengan to the mouth delivered from below.
If such tactics are effective against other experiences Nin, I can’t imagine an individual that comes from a world NOT dominated by such sneakery being able to out-think an oponent who is so high-tier amongst supernatural assassins. “Almost” single-handedly defeating Kakuzu and Nagato should be counting for quite a bit here considering these foes were too much for Kakashi, a high-level Jouning who is is essentially the vice-Hokage, AND whom we have seen performing incredible feats of skill and tactics himself. Those two S-Level Nin had bested upper-tier Nin numerous times before, enslaving them to their twisted ways, and Naruto out-manouvered them both with relative ease. Against one of them he didn’t even have to switch to an alternate form. Against the other, he didn’t have to use up ALL his resources as the Sage (if I recall correctly, one bunshin remained to be used).
No Kyubi form. No Sage of the nine paths form.
I honestly think that Naruto is a tough oponent to deal with throughout Pilerverse in general. If he is not matched against planet-busters, or people with obvious advantages over him, he has a good chance of victory. Dealing with an assassin is tough. Dealing with a supernatural assassin is tougher. Dealing with a supernatural assassin in the upper tiers of a universe full of supernatural assassins is even tougher. Dealing with an assassin like that, but who can also multiply himself into thousands of upper-tier supernatural assassins is just ridiculous.
…and we havent even added his alternate forms into that equation just yet.
Um…Mata, could we have feats for Kakuzu and Nagato, I know they are all powerful and all, but not everyone is going to believe what you say unless they see the battle for themselves and know what Naruto’s opponents are capable of.
For all we know Aang might have been able to defeat them as easily.
Kakuzu was an S-Level Nin who made an attempt on the first Hokage’s life. While he did fail at the time, he also survived a battle against that legendary, lethal Nin.
In a way that makes him similar to Aang in terms of wide area elemental damage, he can control elemental chakra for all 5 elements. He is able to do this because his real skill comes in the form of his Earth Thread Jutsus. Over time, Kakuzu tracked and killed top-tier Nin that controlled a particular elemental-chakra type (like Naruto controlling wind chakra). Once killed, he collected his victim’s heart and assimilated it into his body.
As he has an innate ability to control Earth Chakra, and collected hearts for the other four elements, the man became very adept at combining the energies, and subsequently developped devastating jutsus.
Not much is known about the people he killed for those hearts, only that they had to be high-tiered to be able to control the elemental chakras effectively. A good indicator of the quality of oponent needed for this is hinted at after Kakashi managed to cripple one of his hearts, and Kakuzu voiced his intent to replace it with his.
That said, the power the elemental chakras gave his were indeed great as he single-handedly defeated
His natural skill and combination of hearts also enabled Kakuzu with a virtual invulnerability. Not only must all 5 hearts be critically damaged, but he was able to take a steel-form similar to that of the X-Man Colossus’ Organic Steel.
Naruto employed a combination of out-thinking and out-maneuvering, with a massive attack to disable the man almost entirely, critically injuring multiple hearts, and leaving only one for Kakashi to finish off (which Naruto himself could have done).
Not much more is known of Kakuzu other than hints at the sheer amount of oponents he killed previously because of his “invulnerability” and overall power. He was partnered with a number of other S-Level Nin while in Akatsuki, but he always became annoyed with them and ended up killing them for it. Hidan was the only partner he had that he couldn’t kill like the previous ones, and that was just due to Hidan’s unique talent and jutsu. On top of that, Kakuzu became a bounty-hunter after he became a criminal in the Nin world, and is said to have collected a great number of top-tier bounties.
Again, taking Kakuzu out was a very big feat if only brief in the actual series.
As for Nagato, that is a similarly long post which I will save for later if needed. A good portion of it has been mentioned already. The biggest usable feat we have of him is his single-handed destruction of Konoha (and all Nin within it). In his “short” appearance on the series, we see him killing Jirayia (previously) and Kakashi amongst many other Nin ranging from Genin to Jounin (ANBU included) all at once in the assault on the village.
Nagato’s rampage was only stopped by Naruto. Another gargantuan feat.
does anyone remember if kakuzu actually helped fight the two-tails or was it all hidan?
It was a cut-away (as I recal from the Manga). We don’t know how that battle unfolded.
It ain’t only from the manga Piojo, the anime as I recall only showed Hidan using his special ability, the actual battle with the two tails was never actually shown, unless I am seriously outdated.
“Also, where’s Aang going to get water t bend in an unspecified environment?”
Isn’t there a rule about the setting incorporating all elements for both side to operate at max. So wouldn’t that include a source of water?
The rules states that unless specified, the location is a neutral area. In short, it doesn’t help either of them nor does it hurt them.
“Curious question. Why is the ongoing debate parting from the assumption that Naruto would just stand there and take it. Even if Aang managed to land an attack, he is considerably more likely to find himself with a face-full of Sage knucles delivered by the non- decoy Naruto.”
Aang has fought against several foes at once before. He is not going to relax his guard if he hits a few, knowing his opponent can make copies of himself.
“A decoy bunshin could be followed by a suddenly appearing wind rasengan to the mouth delivered from below.”
Attacking from the ground isn’t particularly new to Aang, it’s something earthbenders do all the time. Aang also learned to sense vibrations through the earth. Plus if Aang happen to be using earthbending it would make it difficult to navigate underground when the ground around him is constantly shifting and moving around.
What are some of naruto’s ranged attacks? One advantage Aang has is flight both in and out of Avatar state.
“- Combat experience”
Avatars have past experience to draw from. That’s at least 4 provable lives of combat experience to pull from… well 3 since I believe that one waterbender lived during a time of peace.
“- Wide range of abilities”
Aangs can manipulate the elements for a wide range of abilities as well. He can use them to run faster, jump higher, create armor, etc.
“- Inhuman speed, strength, and stamina”
Besides strength the same is true of Aang.
“The rules states that unless specified, the location is a neutral area. In short, it doesn’t help either of them nor does it hurt them.”
Right but it states
“Battles take place in a neutral arena appropriate to the scope of the match (i.e. stadium, facility, city, continent, planet, galaxy, universe, etc.), and it is assumed no one side will have an undue disadvantage.”
Why would the neutral battlefield have to be waterless?
Also
“This neutral setting will incorporate all associated elements for all combatants to operate at maximum efficiency.”
So wouldn’t that mean if there is no water then Aang is unable to use one of his own his abilities?
You all assume that there has to be an ocean or something for Aang. He could have a freakin’ puddle and that would work. I still think Naruto could win what with all the substitution, poofing, and kunai flying everywhere.
The only reason that the author stopped using it was because all the substituting and smoke poofing/teleporting was getting annoying and repetitive.
just to throw a stupid arguement against aang out there, if aang tries to waterbend, naruto could just use water-walking to walk on it herp derp. in all seriousness, though, if naruto can get in close and maybe get a good rasengan off, thatll probably be it. rasengan can not only punch through stone, but metal as well.
this was shown when he fought sasuke on the hospital roof and kakashi through them into the water towers.Naruto’s didnt leave huge hole in the front, but when sasuke looked behind it, the back had been ripped open. so, unless aang is stronger than metal, the rasengan will do some pretty serious damage.
and with the subject of speed, naruto still was able to dodge a max-speed punch from the raikage. not saying the raikage is the fastest ninja out there (as stated before, thats probably guy), but tsunade stated she saw a “yellow flash”when naruto dodged it. not saying he teleported, considering he was glowing yellow from the tailed-beast mode and could have just moved very quickly, but still.
thats all ive got for now.
“Curious question. Why is the ongoing debate parting from the assumption that Naruto would just stand there and take it. Even if Aang managed to land an attack, he is considerably more likely to find himself with a face-full of Sage knucles delivered by the non-decoy Naruto.”
What makes everyone think Naruto has enough of advantage to do it as simply as you laid out?
“The fact of the matter here is that however destructive both of them can be, only one of them practices lethal sneakery on a day to day basis. Aang may have power, but Naruto has both power and EXTREME combat tactics. Not really calling victory for him, though – I don’t know nearly enough about Aang to do such a thing – but just pointing out that Naruto seems to hold all the advantages here.”
True, and I see how expansive tactics can be for this universe in the roleplay for it. However, there’s still the facter that Aang still has the ability and the speed to keep Naruto had a pretty big distance.
“Then ichigo Kurosaki joined in…”
And killed them both with a slash from a distance.
“And can’t ninjas survive a few minutes without air?”
Too generalized a statement.
“A very common thing for Naruto to do is measure his opponent’s strength and skill by setting up clones while he hides away.There is no reason to believe he wouldn’t do the same against this foe.”
Naruto hasn’t used this tactic since gaining Sage Mode.
“Kakashi, a high-level Jouning who is is essentially the vice-Hokage,”
He is indeed at a high level but I do point out there’s a very large gap between Kakashi and many of the kages of the world. I still have the opinion that he could defeat Tsunade; primarily because combat is NOT her specialty.
“Against the other, he didn’t have to use up ALL his resources as the Sage (if I recall correctly, one bunshin remained to be used).”
I thought he had used his last one. Regardless, the bunshin really only allowed for him to access sage mode quickly. He coudl do it without and hold it; it’s just the act of drawing in chakra that caused difficulty.
As for dealing with kakuzu this was AFTER all of Kakuzu’s resources were used up. He had used up vast amounts of chakra and all of his ‘hearts’ had been defeated; he was desperate and had nothing left to offer save for brute force.
“Dealing with an assassin like that, but who can also multiply himself into thousands of upper-tier supernatural assassins is just ridiculous.”
At the moment he can’t make the vast army while in sage mode and it’s unknown if he can do it (given the difficulty during training for the Rasen Shuriken) while in the 9 tails mode. As for the ‘vast army’ of standard Naruto’s I see no reason why an airborne Aang couldn’t eliminate them all in just one or two moves.
“Not much is known about the people he killed for those hearts, only that they had to be high-tiered to be able to control the elemental chakras effectively. ”
The generalization from the series puts them at “jounin level”. Not that it specifies much beyond what Mata already stated.
“Hidan was the only partner he had that he couldn’t kill like the previous ones, and that was just due to Hidan’s unique talent and jutsu.”
Literal immortality for anyone curious.
“In his “short” appearance on the series, we see him killing Jirayia (previously) ”
This is kind of huge considering Jiraiya’s own level. Especially since Jiraiya’s arival prompted both Kisame and Itachi to run for the hills upon his arrival; individually each one being (potentially) more dangerous than Kakuzu.
“Nagato’s rampage was only stopped by Naruto. Another gargantuan feat.”
It should be noted that Pain would have won had the intent been to kill Naruto; instead he was there to capture and in the process (after pinning Naruto to the ground with several blades) infuriated him enough to awaken the 9 tails.
“does anyone remember if kakuzu actually helped fight the two-tails or was it all hidan?”
“It was a cut-away (as I recal from the Manga). We don’t know how that battle unfolded.”
This. Even in the anime (which usually elaborates a little bit more) we get to see nothing.
“What are some of naruto’s ranged attacks? One advantage Aang has is flight both in and out of Avatar state.”
At present Naruto has virtually none by comparison. He can throw kunai with profficiency at unknown speeds (but with accuracy to knock incoming thrown knifes out of the air) and he can throw the Rasen Shuriken. As far as can proven the Rasen Shuriken has a range of a few hundred meters (given the scene in the manga with the destroyed mountain) but with an unknown speed.
I still see it being too close to call. I still fail to understand how most people just jumped the gun for Naruto.
“Well, that’s the thing. It’s an unbacked boast right now. Raikage can say all he wants; until proven he isn’t above super sonic range whereas Gai is hyper sonic.”
Again, how is it proven that Raikage isn’t above super sonic whereas Gai is hyper sonic? Just curious since I’ve never really taken part in Naruto battles.
“Minato however will forever remain unmatched; you literally can’t move faster than “instant” short of time travel. ”
Only it seems to more more apparent the greater the distance involved.
“Sasuke, Naruto, Bee…”
Can’t really remember much of the fight between Sasuke and A. Did Sasuke ever really dodge? Didn’t susanoo basically protect him from all fronts? And to be fair, Sasuke has the Sharingan which allows him to perceive A’s movements to better react to them.
Naruto only dodged using space time (theoretically)..
And Bee seems incapable of matching A’s speed at all.. so I don’t know where you’re going in regards to him.
“When has Aang ever even demonstrated an ability remotely similar to bending air out of one’s lungs….? That’s just hypothetical to say he can do that as he’s never done anything like that”
No, obviously he hasn’t. But just because he hasn’t doesn’t mean he can and we know bending in such a way is possible or at least not out of the question. As I’ve said, Katara has done it before, except instead of bending water into a person’s lungs/body, she bended the water out of Aang’s lungs/body– and that was before she trained under Paku.
“going by his character, he’d most likely never kill Naruto with a move like that. Also, where’s Aang going to get water to bend in an unspecified environment?”
If you think about it, both characters have severe CIS against attacking let alone killing each other. Aang is a pacifist that has been taught all his life by the Air Temple monks that all life holds value.. plus he’s biologically and mentally only 12 years old. Naruto basically feels the same and would never even imagine harming another unless as a last resort in the defense of another’s life… and again, Aang is biologically 12 years old. Could Naruto really bring himself to sack someone such as Aang?
So really, I think we should concentrate on what they can do and not what they would do due to CIS.
“Aang can’t blood bend nor draw water from sources such as the air or ground as Katara can simply because he’s never demonstrated those abilities before.”
I’ve never suggested that he could blood bend, I’m just offering the possibilities would he be able to. And you’re still very wrong on both accounts. Just because he’s never demonstrated on screen those abilities, it doesn’t mean he can’t do it. And for heavens sake, he’s the avatar, which pretty much guarantees that he CAN do anything that’s been shown on screen minus special techniques such as metalbending, healing, lightning, bloodbending, and sandbending.
“There has yet to be a feat where they could even do something that complex. That includes air-bending the oxygen out of a person’s body.”
No it doesn’t. It would require controlling the flow of blood via waterbending, and not the actual production and circulation via air/oxygen.
“Curious question. Why is the ongoing debate parting from the assumption that Naruto would just stand there and take it. Even if Aang managed to land an attack, he is considerably more likely to find himself with a face-full of Sage knucles delivered by the non-decoy Naruto.”
How long again does it require Naruto to gather nature chakra? And when he does, how long does it last? As I recall, Naruto’s only effective way of prolonging sage mode is using shadowclones which by the rulebook he won’t be given time to prep for.
“The fact of the matter here is that however destructive both of them can be, only one of them practices lethal sneakery on a day to day basis. Aang may have power, but Naruto has both power and EXTREME combat tactics. Not really calling victory for him, though – I don’t know nearly enough about Aang to do such a thing – but just pointing out that Naruto seems to hold all the advantages here.”
Well, the whole series basically revolves around Aang’s travels: first to the Northern Water Tribe to learn waterbending whilst clashing heads with a few enemies on the way (including Zuko, Iroh, pirates, and miscellaneous firebenders), then to the great Earth Kingdom capital, Ba Sing Se, along the way finding an earthbending master to teach him earthbending (again encountering enemies such as Azula, Ty Lee, and Mei), and finally traveling to the Fire Nation to prep for and face the Fire Lord Ozai. So yeah, Aang has plenty of first hand experience combined with the wisdom of hundreds of past lives.
“- Combat experience”
Actually, Aang has hundreds (possibly thousands) of years of experience due to Avatar status.
“- Wide range of abilities”
Uh, no. Naruto’s signature moves include rasengan, summoning toads, shadowclone, and rasenshuriken. Aang has 5 bending arts to chose from (air, water, earth, fire, and energy) and among 4 of those 5 bending arts, many ways in which to bend the element to his will.
“- Inhuman speed, strength, and stamina”
Ok, yes, Naruto takes strength, stamina and endurance, but normal modes, discounting sage, nine-tails, and nine-tails chakra mode, Aang is possibly faster (he can bend the air around him to reduce friction and therefore run faster than the naked eye can see for long periods and vast distances without much fatigue).
“- Regeneration”
Ok, yeah.
“- Multiple alternate energy sources”
Really only 1 more than Aang, but yeah.
“- Multiple combat forms and enhancements”
What do you mean? Like ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu? Naruto excels in ninjutsu, his taijutsu is average, and he knows no genjutsu. If you mean taijutsu and hand-to-hand combat, Aang is actually the better being a master of the 4 elements and in turn the martial arts in which they are related to.
“- Multiple weapons”
I don’t think kunai and shuriken are going to make much of a difference here. I mean really, they hardly play a role in it’s own anime series. The only time kunai have made contact with it’s target is in that one anime movie with the zero-tails beasts or whatever. And I’m pretty sure even then it was staged.
“- Multiple summons”
Wondering if this violates “Outside Help”..
“- And a pretty impressive resume in terms of usable feats”
Both have this..
“A decoy bunshin could be followed by a suddenly appearing wind rasengan to the mouth delivered from below.”
And then Aang burns them both to a crisp with firebending, rips off a leg, takes a bite, and says “Hmm, tastes like chicken.”
“I honestly think that Naruto is a tough oponent to deal with throughout Pilerverse in general. If he is not matched against planet-busters, or people with obvious advantages over him, he has a good chance of victory. Dealing with an assassin is tough. Dealing with a supernatural assassin is tougher. Dealing with a supernatural assassin in the upper tiers of a universe full of supernatural assassins is even tougher. Dealing with an assassin like that, but who can also multiply himself into thousands of upper-tier supernatural assassins is just ridiculous.”
Pretty sure you’re violating one of the fallacies since you’re essentially asserting that since it’s highly improbable that Aang could defeat Kakashi or an assassin, it’s unlikely that Aang could defeat Naruto (since he’s defeated opponents that Kakashi has lost to) or supernatural assassins (since they surpass normal assassins).
And need I remind you that in the series, Naruto’s shadowclones more often than not are slain after the first hit and succumb by literally going “poof”? So I wouldn’t compare shadowclone Narutos to the real deal since they seem to be much weaker than the original.
“For all we know Aang might have been able to defeat them as easily.”
It’s really not a valid or fair analogy since those characters and Naruto differ in stats. For example, While it’s true that Rock Lee might lose to normal mode Naruto, he might also have a better chance against Aang with his super speed and all. That’s not to say that Naruto would then have a greater chance than Rock Lee against Aang (which was the fallacy that Mata seemed to be violating above).
Naruto has redeemable qualities such as performance in ninjutsu, taijutsu is ok, summoning is good, and high endurance.. and then he has some not so good qualities such as the urge to always start things off with direct attacks, he’s not the sharpest tool in the shed, worst motto ever (“.. believe it!”), and it usually takes about 2-3 episodes of him getting tossed around to actually formulate a working strategy, genius it may be.
“The rules states that unless specified, the location is a neutral area. In short, it doesn’t help either of them nor does it hurt them.”
That hurts Aang and makes it so he can’t fight with all of his abilities. You realize that, right? He should be provided a good supply of water and earth. It wouldn’t be helping him, just allowing him to fight with full capabilities.
“Avatars have past experience to draw from. That’s at least 4 provable lives of combat experience to pull from… well 3 since I believe that one waterbender lived during a time of peace. ”
Doesn’t work like that. It’s known that he draws experience and wisdom from all past avatars, even ones not specified in the series.
“So wouldn’t that mean if there is no water then Aang is unable to use one of his own his abilities?”
The rules you’ve quoted means that Aang WILL be supplied water and earth.
“Again, how is it proven that Raikage isn’t above super sonic whereas Gai is hyper sonic? Just curious since I’ve never really taken part in Naruto battles.”
Feats. Raikage hasn’t done anything to prove himself Gai’s equal or superior. As far as can be shown is that he matches/surpasses ‘bee and clearly outmatched Sasuke. At present as far as can be proven for ‘bee or sasuke is super sonic speeds. Gai on the other hand moved fast enough for friction heat to ignite the air; this only happens at hypersonic speeds.
“Can’t really remember much of the fight between Sasuke and A. Did Sasuke ever really dodge? Didn’t susanoo basically protect him from all fronts? And to be fair, Sasuke has the Sharingan which allows him to perceive A’s movements to better react to them.”
Sasuke only did it once. Technically his lackeys each did it once as well. Otherwise the rest of Sasuke’s moves and deflections were all a result of the Mangekyou.
“Naruto only dodged using space time (theoretically)..”
Theoretically, yes. So far however (as there were no seals or notes involved) it’s just speed.
“And Bee seems incapable of matching A’s speed at all.. so I don’t know where you’re going in regards to him.”
In the recent fight he did avoid one of A’s blows though. Granted, a split second later he was hit.
“How long again does it require Naruto to gather nature chakra? And when he does, how long does it last? As I recall, Naruto’s only effective way of prolonging sage mode is using shadowclones which by the rulebook he won’t be given time to prep for.”
We haven’t seen how long it takes currently without the shadow clones. However, without being in combat it did last long enough for him to go from that little village to where Sasuke and all them were at. No range or time frame but considering they went from a snowy wonderland to a bright and sunny forest implies a pretty decent distance.
““- Multiple summons”
Wondering if this violates “Outside Help”..”
It’s kind of a gray area.
“While it’s true that Rock Lee might lose to normal mode Naruto,”
I seriously doubt normal form Naruto could take Rock Lee.
That hurts Aang and makes it so he can’t fight with all of his abilities. You realize that, right? He should be provided a good supply of water and earth. It wouldn’t be helping him, just allowing him to fight with full capabilities.
Wrong. Aang is able to fight with his full capabilities. He just won’t have the object to do said specific ability. Aang, nor any past Avatar, normally carries around an Ocean with them. In a factpile match, unless specified, they have to use what they normally carry. And there is earth. Neutral areas are usually an open field.
“Ocean with them. In a factpile match, unless specified earth. Neutral areas are usually an open field.”
Why would it have to be an ocean, open fields can have small ponds in them correct? How far is the open field away from a water source? Aang has shown that he can summon a large amount of water from a distance. Also would Aang be allowed to cloud bend to make water?
“Also would Aang be allowed to cloud bend to make water?”
Why would it be against the rules for him to do so?
“Why would it be against the rules for him to do so?”
Switch allowed with able.
It requires clouds so if its a clear day in the neutral battlefield he wouldn’t have much to work with.
“As far as can proven the Rasen Shuriken has a range of a few hundred meters (given the scene in the manga with the destroyed mountain) but with an unknown speed.”
Even a quick and haphazardly done calculation puts the Rasenshuriken at thousands of meters per second and likely in the hypersonic range.
www.mangareader.net/93-444-6/naruto/chapter-439.html
This is the crater created by Pain’s Chibuka Tensei. As you can see the hole is easily several kilometers across when you consider both the size of the small mountains around it and the distance between the clouds and the ground below them ( clouds that are only two kilometers up are considered “low” ) – asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/edu_act/bkg_clouds.html.
www.mangareader.net/93-447-5/naruto/chapter-442.html
www.mangareader.net/93-447-6/naruto/chapter-442.html
Here we see Naruto throw the Rasenshuriken towards Pain. Just eyeing it, I would say there’s only around a twenty meters distance between the two of them. Pay close attention to the box that say’s “Five more seconds until Deva Path can attack again”.
www.mangareader.net/93-447-9/naruto/chapter-442.html
Lower-right box, the Rasenshuriken explodes at the other end of the crater. Notice the box that says “Four seconds to the next jutsu”. The Rasenshuriken Naruto threw crossed the distance from end of the crater to the next ( disregarding the small distance between Pain and Naruto’s side of the crater, which is small in comparison to the rest of the distance to the other edge ) in only one second.
Assuming the distance is somewhere between one and two kilometers ( which is probably a “low end” assumption ), Naruto’s jutsu would have to be atleast somewhere between Mach 3 and Mach 6.
“No, obviously he hasn’t. But just because he hasn’t doesn’t mean he can and we know bending in such a way is possible or at least not out of the question.”
Pulling the air out of the lungs of a passed out, stationary object and one that is moving at hundreds of meters per second are two totally different things. What your considering is highly unlikely because Aang would have to consciously manipulate the air in two 0.006 cubic meter volumes ( both at the same time ) and pull said air out through a tube that is only a bit over 20 millimeters across, while his target is likely dozens or hundreds of meters away and is casually moving at a speed of hundreds of meters per second. And then when you consider the high likely hood of his target using Shadow Clones or some type of replacement jutsu, the likelihood of immediate success drops even lower. That is precision Aang doesn’t necessarily have.
Not, to mention that this is a repetitive process, since Aang would have to constantly manipulate the air around Naruto to prevent him from taking another breath. It doesn’t help that more and more air will move to occupy the vacuum Aang is trying to maintain, meaning he will have to consciously manipulate yet even more air than that’s in Naruto’s immediate radius. Then, poof, Shadow Clone.
This is of course even assuming Aang even decides to fight like this.
didnt we decide in other debates that summoning is one of naruto’s abilities, and doesnt really count as outside help? on a side note, i wonder how appa vs. gamakichi would work out…… nevermind thats kind of a stomp.
Why would it have to be an ocean, open fields can have small ponds in them correct? How far is the open field away from a water source? Aang has shown that he can summon a large amount of water from a distance. Also would Aang be allowed to cloud bend to make water?
An open field is a very large area of just grass with no water nearby. The distance of a source of water depends on the location. The bigger the field, the farther it is from water.
And unless there aren’t clouds in the sky by the time of this fight, I see no reason as to why not.
“We haven’t seen how long it takes currently without the shadow clones. However, without being in combat it did last long enough for him to go from that little village to where Sasuke and all them were at. No range or time frame but considering they went from a snowy wonderland to a bright and sunny forest implies a pretty decent distance.”
But we don’t know when he stopped to gather nature chakra or how, do we?
“It’s kind of a gray area.”
Well in the example, it says that the Lich King thing can’t bring the legions of undead already in his command, but he can make new ones with the proper ingredients. For Naruto summonings, it seems to be in between. He’s not necessarily bringing them along by summoning him, but he isn’t exactly “creating” them like the Lich King does..
The best parallel I can make is between summonings and WoT gateways. If it were a match between say.. Rand and some other guy.. it would clearly be outside help for Rand to create a gateway for his allies to step through and aid him.
“I seriously doubt normal form Naruto could take Rock Lee.”
I know, me too. Wasn’t really the variables involved so much as the point I wanted to get across..
I never really stop to think of better examples or parallels once I think of one.. something you’re all going to have to deal with D:
“Wrong. Aang is able to fight with his full capabilities. He just won’t have the object to do said specific ability. Aang, nor any past Avatar, normally carries around an Ocean with them. In a factpile match, unless specified, they have to use what they normally carry. And there is earth. Neutral areas are usually an open field.”
No, you’re wrong. Like I’ve said, it doesn’t give an advantage were he to be provided a source of water to bend. Denying him one gives him a disadvantage for he can’t use the totality of his bending abilities (which is against the rules).
Furthermore, who are we to say what a neutral area is? Couldn’t a neutral area be an area water included? There needs to be specification.
“Why would it have to be an ocean, open fields can have small ponds in them correct? How far is the open field away from a water source? Aang has shown that he can summon a large amount of water from a distance. Also would Aang be allowed to cloud bend to make water?”
In addition, the amount of water given also speaks volumes. If Katara were given a pond to bend the entire series, she’d clearly be at a disadvantage all the time (remember when she was in the desert?).
I say as much water as Aang can bend at one time should do which would be able the size of a large lake.
Seriously, guys. The point of this thread is to see whose abilities trump whose. I really don’t see why we’re arguing whether or not Aang should be given the fundamental tools that make him who he is which would include breathable, bendable air (obviously), a source of water, earth, and his glider.
“Not, to mention that this is a repetitive process, since Aang would have to constantly manipulate the air around Naruto to prevent him from taking another breath. It doesn’t help that more and more air will move to occupy the vacuum Aang is trying to maintain, meaning he will have to consciously manipulate yet even more air than that’s in Naruto’s immediate radius. Then, poof, Shadow Clone. ”
Or, you know, cease air flow or increase it to the point where it’s suffocating (which is the preferred option with a moving target and all).
“An open field is a very large area of just grass with no water nearby. The distance of a source of water depends on the location. The bigger the field, the farther it is from water.”
Take a good look at this:
4. Field of Battle
Battles take place in a neutral arena appropriate to the scope of the match (i.e. stadium, facility, city, continent, planet, galaxy, universe, etc.), and it is assumed no one side will have an undue disadvantage. This neutral setting will incorporate all associated elements for all combatants to operate at maximum efficiency.
And take a good look at this:
15. Appeal to tradition
This is when someone claims that an argument must be true because it’s the way things have always been done previously, or the thing that people always believed before.
No source of water means an undue disadvantage on Aang’s part. Rules state a setting appropriate for the scope of the match should be the field of battle which in this case would be one including earth and water.
To say that it has to be an open field because it’s the way things are usually done is an appeal to tradition.
“No source of water means an undue disadvantage on Aang’s part. Rules state a setting appropriate for the scope of the match should be the field of battle which in this case would be one including earth and water.”
Can we just say they fight near a river or stream, and leave it at that?
technically, couldnt aang just bend the water vapor in the air? or is only katara able to do that. ALSO, about bloodbending only being done during a full moon, katara was able to bloodbend that one retired fire navy officer in the episode when she went to get revenge for her mom’s death. i forget the episode name.
If Aang becomes Avatar mode then can’t he always just drain the water from the grass and trees to use.
“ALSO, about bloodbending only being done during a full moon, katara was able to bloodbend that one retired fire navy officer in the episode when she went to get revenge for her mom’s death.”
It was the a full moon when she attacked the Fire Navy officer she believed to be the killer, but it wasn’t. Watch the scene if you don’t believe me.
Hey I just thought of something, is Naruto allowed to use his summoning abilities here? I don’t believe I’ve seen anything in here that says otherwise, if so, this fight is as good as done. No creature in the Bending world was shown to be able to inflict nearly as much damage as any summoning creature in the Naruto world, the largest creature I can even remember in the Bending world was the one that was basically a mobile island. Even though, I’m sure it wasn’t violent. Name anyone?
@TheSorrow
Correct me if I’m wrong–but isn’t blood-bending only applicable to water benders? Afterall blood is a liquid, and they’ve been proven to bend liquids.
“Correct me if I’m wrong–but isn’t blood-bending only applicable to water benders?”
Yes, and Aang, as the Avatar, is a Water Bender, and an Air Bender, and a Fire Bender, and an Earth Bender, and an Energy Bender.
He hasn’t shown the capacity to Blood Bend though. Only two characters have done that and Aang is not one of them. Same thing with Metal Bending (and Earth Benders) and Lightning Bending. (and Fire Benders); only those base types can do those and Aang, as the Avatar and thus an everything bender, is potentially capable of doing those thing, but he has never shown the capacity to do them.
He likely has the potential to do these things, but he hasn’t learned how to do them so he cannot do them in this match. Although he can redirect lightning; he learned how to do that and demonstrated that within his skill set.
“Correct me if I’m wrong–but isn’t blood-bending only applicable to water benders? Afterall blood is a liquid, and they’ve been proven to bend liquids.”
The reason they can bend blood is because blood has water inside it.
@OriginalA
Can we refrain from the comment about lightning redirection? It won’t matter unless a storm brews during this fight.
Oh and something, I do not believe nobody has mentioned–Aang can bend air, and since the Rasengan is technically wind, isn’t it possible Aang could manipulate it to some extent…? Well, at least if this Rasengan is in its finished state (when introduced by Jiraiya it was still incomplete).
Regardless, Naruto still has this, but let’s verify something quickly: Does Naruto get the help of the demon Fox this time around?
@Ryushi
The Rasengan itself is just a ball of swirling compressed Chakara and has no particular element assigned to it. That’s why it was stated to be an incomplete jutsu, but with Naruto’s breakthrough he was able to find a was to add the Wind Element to it and create an entirely different technique.
Now if he were to use it on Aang, he could very well manipulate it, if he can react fast enough. But if it does indeed come to that Naruto can easily use the original Rasengan and Aang would have no way of manipulating that.
“Does Naruto get the help of the demon Fox this time around?”
His current incarnation allows him to tap into the Nine-Tailed Fox’s power.
@Sorrow
Yeah, I realize it’s a basically a ball of an enormous amount of compressed energy, I was more talking about Naruto’s perfection (the addition of the wind element, as you stated). And, I think we should take into account his “Sage Mode” along with the ability to tap into the Demon Fox’s power whenever necessary, I just think Aang will be blown away by the pure power, even with his ability to tap into the power and strength of the previous Avatars’, they just cannot compare to the power of the Demon Fox, and Naruto’s Sage Mode. Let’s not forget most humans within the Avatar world are nothing special, aside from bending various elements, hardly any of them are notable of enormous strength.
Let’s take a look at some notable side-characters from the two worlds. Gaara and Toph–both had the ability to control Earth, in one form or another (even if Gaara’s ability was only inherited through the power of the Shukaku). Even without the Shukaku, Gaara was a very powerful individual (and eventually wise, due to the fact Gaara became Kaze-Kage), whilst Toph is basically a brute in the form of a blind-girl, regardless of the fact she’s a powerful girl even in close-quarter encounters. But maybe Lee and Toph is a better comparison, due to the fact of both being very strong in physical terms, even though Lee is vastly ahead.
The next comment is hopefully first on the next page.