Suggested by Aelfinn
Here we have the smackdown that’s been happening on other battles finally going head to head with the Wheel of Time series going up against the Sword of Truth.
Boxes of Orden and Choedan Kal are out. Gods can’t attack unless it’s another god, but their forces can.
You all know which side I’m rooting for.
Who wins?
so I’ll end it on a new page. Stop commenting here
FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who the hell is Herp a Derp?
Some new guy. He doesn’t like Goku
Actually I’d like to see this anti-SoT rant.
Could be interesting
New vote: Blood Dancer going on his anti-SoT rant +1
I know that this match has already ended a week ago, and that I didn’t participate much for the vast majority of the debate, but I wanted to say a few final words.
Really, I have to salute the long-time debaters who spent months upon months opposing Mike and continuing to argue to get this award. I reached my personal limits long ago, but I’m still heartened to see that, in the end, things turned out for the better.
I know that this isn’t the end, that Mike will still do everything he can to say that the award was unjustly given, that we only got it through mob rule, that a rematch needs to be posted, etc, but I knew all along that he would react that way if and when this award was finally given. Even if it took over 5,000 comments and Mike will still continue with his hatred and illogical wanking, it still feels like a great victory.
So Aelfinn, Commander Cross, ptaine, Galorian, Blood Dancer, and everyone else who contributed to this victory, I say again: Great job! Putting Mike in his place, even just once, wouldn’t be possible without you.
Hmmmmm……..this thread may just crack 6K
My God…
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AHEM! It sure is great to see you again.
@Councilor Aelfinn
You are not alone in regards to how badly this site missed AHEM, among other things!
Great to have AHEM back. This award is also symbolic, of how facts and intelligence will always trump arrogance and stupidity.
@TBC
The latter two only needs to gain an outright victory, just once, though, best to keep that in mind in the future, alright?
“Great to have AHEM back. This award is also symbolic, of how facts and intelligence will always trump arrogance and stupidity.”
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Ermmm……Arrogance>>>Facts Intelligence>>>ignorance. About a deadlock
I didn’t really ever expect to serious comment regularly on this site again, but seeing how Mike has been soundly defeated on this thread, that a large number of people are thoroughly tired of and rejecting his bullsh*t, and how many people want me back . . . I might just comment on a few threads, again. Probably not nearly as much as I used to, though, but still.
Every bit helps. Especially now that Factpile Day is almost here! (BTW don’t believe all that they say about me. Only the good parts are true
@ahem
“Great job! Putting Mike in his place, even just once, wouldn’t be possible without you.”
-was never put in my place. think what you want, as the others do also; i have proved my point multiple times and have quotes to back every single thing i say. just because a majority of people can lobby to get an award when one is unjustly given(and i have given multiple completely separate reasons why it’s even against factpile rules even) doesn’t mean i was “put in my place”, it means you guys were persistent enough and cried long enough to get what you wanted, nothing more.
C’est la vie, Mike. I disagree with your last post, and have disagreed with your sentiment for some time, but whatever dude. You think WoT got the award because of “Mob Rule” and that is it. Everyone else thinks that you provided fallacious arguments with shaky evidence. You haven’t convinced anyone else that you have “proven” anything, so maybe you should take a step back and reevaluate your strategy here.
“mob rule” doesn’t cover it completely, but it explains a lot. it’s how lesser entities pressure higher entities in many cultures/polotics/debates….ect. the fact that you guys pushed for an award so close to the last book of the wot series coming out speaks volumes in itself, much less that certain factors that could completely change the fight haven’t even been gone into much at all yet. i won’t even get into how you guys are wrong(or well more specifically how you convinced them of your inserted speculation) about what i said not being proven.
Give all the reason’s you want Mike, it will never make them facts. Incredible you are still trying even when the overwhelming majority is against you. It isn’t noble by the way, it’s just delusional.
““mob rule” doesn’t cover it completely, but it explains a lot. it’s how lesser entities pressure higher entities in many cultures/polotics/debates….ect. the fact that you guys pushed for an award so close to the last book of the wot series coming out speaks volumes in itself, much less that certain factors that could completely change the fight haven’t even been gone into much at all yet. i won’t even get into how you guys are wrong(or well more specifically how you convinced them of your inserted speculation) about what i said not being proven.”
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Translation: “HURR DURR I RIGHT EVERYONE ELSE WRONG!!! WRONG! WRONG! MOB RULEZZZZ! WOT SUCKS!!!!!!”
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STFU Mike, you lost this debate because you fucking suck at debating.
”i won’t even get into how you guys are wrong(or well more specifically how you convinced them of your inserted speculation) about what i said not being proven.”
You don’t have to Mike because it has been gone over already, numerous times in fact. The simple fact of the matter is, all I did was present an argument with your evidence and more evidence of my own showing precisely why YOU are speculating. The fact that I can LEGITITAMATELY do so was your only problem. You just never realized and/or admitted that I showed precisely why my assertions were legitimate with the evidence presented and in the process that I showed the fallacious nature of your arguments and the shaky evidence with which you made them. You can rationalize it however you want to my friend, it doesn’t change what everyone else except you can plainly see.
Seriously, if you truly believe as you do, take it as a learning experience and adapt your strategy. Or not, it’s really up to you dude.
I’m curious to see the shit that would go down in a Richard with Boxes of Orden vs Lucifer match.
“Give all the reason’s you want Mike, it will never make them facts. Incredible you are still trying even when the overwhelming majority is against you. It isn’t noble by the way, it’s just delusional.”
-the reasons that make them facts are the facts that back them.
-lol, you use the “mob rule” as a reason i should conceded.
-nothing about what i am trying to do is me trying to be noble, it’s just pointing out facts. even if you don’t believe my arguments, the simple fact that wot as a series is ending in some months and you guys push for an award is ridiculous, much less the fact that aspects of this fight that haven’t been discussed much at all that could change what even you accept as wot’s feats and what you accept are sot’s feats goes against factpile rules of if a true counter is left.
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“Translation: “HURR DURR I RIGHT EVERYONE ELSE WRONG!!! WRONG! WRONG! MOB RULEZZZZ! WOT SUCKS!!!!!!”
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STFU Mike, you lost this debate because you fucking suck at debating.”
-this level of troll mentality is why it’s so hard to debate with some of you guys.
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“You don’t have to Mike because it has been gone over already, numerous times in fact. The simple fact of the matter is, all I did was present an argument with your evidence and more evidence of my own showing precisely why YOU are speculating.”
-and i countered by going though every single factor possible that could be speculated and proved it wasn’t a factor(spirits and sub.magic come to mind).
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“The fact that I can LEGITITAMATELY do so was your only problem.”
-”legitimately” is the key problem here.
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“You just never realized and/or admitted that I showed precisely why my assertions were legitimate with the evidence presented and in the process that I showed the fallacious nature of your arguments and the shaky evidence with which you made them.”
-they were fallicious in no way, and you only think so because you are wrong about them being speculation.
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“You can rationalize it however you want to my friend, it doesn’t change what everyone else except you can plainly see.”
-the majority seeing it one way in no way makes that way right.
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“I’m curious to see the shit that would go down in a Richard with Boxes of Orden vs Lucifer match.”
-lucifer from marvel? don’t know much about him, but everything that’s able to be done in sot can be done with the boxes of orden, and that entails a lot. everything from universe creation to universe erasing to universe time stop. orden is literally the power of life and death, creation and the antithesis to it.
“-lol, you use the “mob rule” as a reason i should conceded.”
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Yep because you further alienate yourself from the group and become an absolute chore to debate with.
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“-this level of troll mentality is why it’s so hard to debate with some of you guys.”
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This is coming from the guy who doesn’t know when to quit.
@mike
I have question about the boxes are they piloted to their native universe or can they affect other universes or planes?
““-lol, you use the “mob rule” as a reason i should conceded.”
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Yep because you further alienate yourself from the group and become an absolute chore to debate with.”
-and as i have pointed out many times before….this is not a reason to think mob rule is right. if you mean this in a way that you just want to see me get ridiculed because my opinion is outnumbered, then fine, be a troll.
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“This is coming from the guy who doesn’t know when to quit.”
-non sequator there buddy. that has nothing to do with what i said. “not knowing when to quit” even if i was right, has nothing to do with blatant trolling against me.
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“I have question about the boxes are they piloted to their native universe or can they affect other universes or planes?”
-well they created other universes and the power they represent is everything which has other planes in a way. the problem with the sot universe though is that it is creation(one universe) surrounded by an infinite nothingness that is their afterworld(not physically surrounding). and somehow orden created another universe on the other side of that infinity. if you are getting at what i think you are getting at in that lucifer is mutiuniversal then it would be more of a discussion on what orden can do to see if it could affect him rather than richard vs lucifer.
It’s settled then. Richard with Boxes vs Lucifer Morningstar.
@mike
“that lucifer is mutiuniversal then it would be more of a discussion on what orden can do to see if it could affect him rather than richard vs lucifer.”
No it was just a question I’ve wanted to ask for a while
won’t be much of a fun debate either way. i’d quote everything said about orden and then i’d probably just let everyone debate it without me. since not many like, much less have read the SoT series on this site(hence not fun either way), you guys can figure it out. i don’t find super multiuniversal characters appealing at all, and marvel usually wins due to massive canon wanking beyond all belief.
I think lucifer is dc
either way, overpowered multiuniversal cosmic beings have to be the lamest thing to debate in a vs debate. the only thing fun in my opinion to talk about in regards to them would be the strange and wacky things they could do that weren’t done in story.
I’m just curious to see how much people will wank SoT.
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Is anyone up for Richard with Boxes vs Superman?
“I think lucifer is dc”
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Yes, he’s from DC.
“I’m just curious to see how much people will wank SoT.
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Is anyone up for Richard with Boxes vs Superman?”
-ah, yes. troll made spite matches, factpile needs more or those.
I don’t know I’m feeling random. Richard vs Black Bolt.
How ’bout Richard Rahl vs Dark Schneider, Richard Rahl vs Gemini Saga or Richard Rahl vs Overlord Zetta?
@Mike
“the simple fact that wot as a series is ending in some months and you guys push for an award is ridiculous”
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This is just you being downright misleading, it doesn’t come out in “in some months”, it comes out early next year.
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It’s not even june yet….
“This is just you being downright misleading, it doesn’t come out in “in some months”, it comes out early next year.
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It’s not even june yet….”
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-misleading? the series that will be ending on january 8th 2013 that will have had a 23 YEAR run! it’s mileading to say you should have waited with your mob lobbying for 8 more months to use the entire series instead of 93% of it which could very well completely change what they have for better or worse? no that’s not misleading at all. that’s pointing out another reason why the award that was given is a result of stupidity and misleading on your side’s part. look at it from another angle once. if an anime that ran say…..6 years(and was winning the factpile fight), and was going to have it’s last episode that was going to be the “final conflict” where all armies go at it and all big magic guns come out…….and the last episode was going to air in less than 2 months; would you argue an award was due before the last episode? i would hope not, but you guys have already done exactly that, the anime example is exactly the same ratio as the wot series. fuck man, the logic is even sound if the last book is scheduled to come out years later as long as it is the last book. the fact that it is in relative close proximity to coming out only adds more stupidity to your guys take on the situation and the award given.
@Mike
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No, what you’re saying is that because SoT isn’t ending anytime soon, NO loss on its side is acceptable.
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That not how Vs work, and you know it Mike.
“No, what you’re saying is that because SoT isn’t ending anytime soon, NO loss on its side is acceptable.
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That not how Vs work, and you know it Mike.”
-that in no way even resembles what i am saying. you apparently completely don’t understand the term “jumping the gun” or the idea of “quick do this before it’s gone”. how these simple concepts escape you i do not know. wot ending it’s entire series in relatively short time, should logically make you wait to see how it ends. because of this award(strictly on the last book issue, not the many other issues on how it’s wrong and against factpile rules) wot will not be represented in this fight how it will be represented in all fights after that up coming date.
@Mike
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WoT was already kicking SoT’s ass, and this Vs had gone on for over a “year”, WoT wining the whole time, in spite whatever you want to tell yourself, so there was no reason to wait of WoT to get a new batch of toys with which to kick even more ass.
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And like I said, that isn’t how Vs work anyway, you don’t get to say “the series isn’t over yet” just because you’re losing.
“WoT was already kicking SoT’s ass, and this Vs had gone on for over a “year”, WoT wining the whole time, in spite whatever you want to tell yourself, so there was no reason to wait of WoT to get a new batch of toys with which to kick even more ass.
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-……they weren’t kicking sot’s ass, we never even got into much the actual defenses that sot can do and did do in the series for which wot can’t counter much less a lot that wasn’t discussed hardly at all and i have mentioned this before.
-many fights go “over a year”
-and for all you know wot might get nerfed in the last book as did sot with confessor. final battles tend to do that sometimes. besides as you said, it might help them also.
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“And like I said, that isn’t how Vs work anyway, you don’t get to say “the series isn’t over yet” just because you’re losing.”
-even if sot was losing it has nothing to do with saying the series isn’t over yet. the TRUTH is what says the series is almost over and you guys lobbied for an award with only one more installment.
@Mike
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The only nerf’s that are likely to happen in the last book is Rand dying, and the defeat of half of wot’s forces, otherwise known as The Shadow.
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And it would just be rather cheap to count ether of those in this Vs.
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It would not on the other hand affect the outcome all that much.
“The only nerf’s that are likely to happen in the last book is Rand dying, and the defeat of half of wot’s forces, otherwise known as The Shadow.
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And it would just be rather cheap to count ether of those in this Vs.
-”“quick do this before it’s gone””
-it’s not cheap at all, it’s waiting to see what they are intended to have canonly for all time, instead of waiting to see if they get nerfed so we better get them the award right now.
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“It would not on the other hand affect the outcome all that much.”
-it very well might, YOU have no idea. people also forget that sot has a book coming out in only 3 months that add in a whole new race of beings with a whole new take on magic and what they can do along with more information on a sentient perfect prophecy machine. I gotta say it again, this has got to be the worst moment of factpile history giving this award out right now with all that surrounds it.
“-it very well might, YOU have no idea. people also forget that sot has a book coming out in only 3 months that add in a whole new race of beings with a whole new take on magic and what they can do along with more information on a sentient perfect prophecy machine. I gotta say it again, this has got to be the worst moment of factpile history giving this award out right now with all that surrounds it.”
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No, Mike, the award represents the triumph of actual facts over your stupidity, arrogance, and wanking. Just try to concede with a shred of dignity and acknowledge that you are a fucking failure of a debater.
“No, Mike, the award represents the triumph of actual facts over your stupidity, arrogance, and wanking. Just try to concede with a shred of dignity and acknowledge that you are a fucking failure of a debater.”
-completely not acknowledging the valid points i have made about my stance which counters your “stupidity, arrogance, and wanking” statement and then claiming i am a failed debater?
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-yeah, so does showing yourself wrong and showing yourself to be exactly what you claim i am(failed debater), while showing you are just a troll has got to feel good right?
“-it very well might, YOU have no idea. people also forget that sot has a book coming out in only 3 months that add in a whole new race of beings with a whole new take on magic and what they can do along with more information on a sentient perfect prophecy machine. I gotta say it again, this has got to be the worst moment of factpile history giving this award out right now with all that surrounds it.”
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Kind of see whee your going. Why not suggest a rematch when the new stuff comes out?
“-completely not acknowledging the valid points i have made about my stance which counters your “stupidity, arrogance, and wanking” statement and then claiming i am a failed debater?
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-yeah, so does showing yourself wrong and showing yourself to be exactly what you claim i am(failed debater), while showing you are just a troll has got to feel good right?”
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You have NO valid points. Everything you have claimed is either baseless speculation, or has been disproved. You are a failure of a debater, who continuously spouts the same arguments, and claims that people “don’t understand them”.
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It feels good to call you out on being such a fucking failure, because your attitude is ruining this site.
@ Mike
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Half serious question: If everyone else on this site is a troll, why do you come here?
“Kind of see whee your going. Why not suggest a rematch when the new stuff comes out?”
-it’s all i can do and have talked about before. it’s just sad that these guys mass lobbied for an award with so many unresolved and untalked about issues that are in current books along with the WoT series having it’s last book in january and sot having another in august. talked about calling it the “complete” wot vs the “complete” sot. but that might need to be a few years down the line since sot might go on for a while(there’s at least one book coming out in august, a prequel book sometime this year and another planned because of a three book deal with TOR that may or may not include the prequel).
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“You have NO valid points. Everything you have claimed is either baseless speculation, or has been disproved. You are a failure of a debater, who continuously spouts the same arguments, and claims that people “don’t understand them”.
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It feels good to call you out on being such a fucking failure, because your attitude is ruining this site.”
-you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. even a few days ago i showed you they are not baseless and NO ONE on either side thinks they are baseless, much less that a lot of my argument in this point in time that you are saying is baseless, speculation, or disproved is actual facts based on what is coming out for both series in the future along with things NOT talked about from either series’ current incarnation. so yeah, continue to troll ignorantly.
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“Half serious question: If everyone else on this site is a troll, why do you come here?”
-never said everyone else is a troll. i’ve only claimed that a couple of people are and only because of direct things they have said that were literally trolling. doesn’t mean they are nothing but a troll, like ptaine, but black crusader is definitely ONLY a troll on this site.
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“……….By quoting that in this Vs, I can only assume that you think that Rand already being dead when the fight starts is “fair”.
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To which I say “WTF?”.”
-you must be liberal because you continue to get the term “fair” wrong. being “fair” in this fight is to use what they have by canon, if rand dies then so be it. i’d love to have all the things that were taken away in the book confessor or the book omen machine like half the population of the world or hundreds of wizards and sorceresses or a whole country of magic immune people, or an undead necromancer that can summon demons, ghosts, zombies and the like, but you know what? they are dead/gone and in terms of using current incarnation for fights, not being able to use them is what is really fair. hell, do you realize that if i put sot from the time they were in the middle of stone of tears that my spirit argument is canonly happening? and that wot would lose within moments? taking what is current is what’s fair, and finishing a vs debate with only one more installment of information from one of the sides that could completely change what they can do and what they have is what is not “fair”, even to themselves because of the possibility of becoming overpowered.
@Mike
“-you must be liberal because you continue to get the term “fair” wrong. being “fair” in this fight is to use what they have by canon, if rand dies then so be it. i’d love to have all the things that were taken away in the book confessor or the book omen machine like half the population of the world or hundreds of wizards and sorceresses or a whole country of magic immune people, or an undead necromancer that can summon demons, ghosts, zombies and the like, but you know what? they are dead/gone and in terms of using current incarnation for fights, not being able to use them is what is really fair. hell, do you realize that if i put sot from the time they were in the middle of stone of tears that my spirit argument is canonly happening? and that wot would lose within moments? taking what is current is what’s fair, and finishing a vs debate with only one more installment of information from one of the sides that could completely change what they can do and what they have is what is not “fair”, even to themselves because of the possibility of becoming overpowered.”
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…..Is your computer working right?
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Or are you really saying that if Rand dies in the next book, then his corpse should have to fight Richard over in “Rand al’Thor Vs Richard Rahl”?
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I say again “WTF?”.
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“you must be liberal”
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And I’m Tea Party actually.
“…..Is your computer working right?
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Or are you really saying that if Rand dies in the next book, then his corpse should have to fight Richard over in “Rand al’Thor Vs Richard Rahl”?
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I say again “WTF?”.”
-universe battles take what is current incarnation to the “t”, individual battles………..
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“2. Battle Incarnations
All combatants are considered to be at their current incarnations, or most recent incarnation prior to death and/or incapacitation that would prevent them from engaging in battle at optimum efficiency, within their own continuities unless otherwise specified by the battle’s scenario.”
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“And I’m Tea Party actually.”
-well you share the same opinion of “fair” as liberals, more or less they think it means “equal”.
@Shgon
www.factpiletopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=33068&start=30
My response to your question, sir.
@Mike
“-universe battles take what is current incarnation to the “t”, individual battles………..”
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I honestly thought I might just be letting my love of WoT taint my view of you too much….
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But if you think that applies to to the characters being dead.
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You’re an idiot.
@Commander Cross
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Yes, yes I saw it.
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I might reply later, give me a little more time.
“I honestly thought I might just be letting my love of WoT taint my view of you too much….
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But if you think that applies to to the characters being dead.
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You’re an idiot.”
-holy shit!…….by your logic all characters that have ever died in any franchise are there for their universes fight. good luck trying to convince absolutely anyone of that logic. simple fact is that whatever the wot universe is at the end of the last book, is what current incarnation is, and whom ever is dead is dead for current incarnation. when someone wants to use a dead person in a match they get put at their most recent incarnation that isn’t dead or incapacitated in some way. you can’t do anything about it and it is how the site works buddy.
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-your love of the wot series IS tainting your view of the subject.
“simple fact is that whatever the wot universe is at the end of the last book, is what current incarnation is”
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- “current incarnation will be”, not “is”.
I did phrase that a little broadly
, so let’s change it to…
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“But if you think that applies to the characters being dead when it’s them Vs (insert name here).
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You’re an idiot”
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too be more precise.
i don’t even know what you are arguing then. current dead people in a universe don’t get to fight in a universe battle unless otherwise stated in the battle description. and if someone is named in the fight, like say rand & richard vs dante &alucard it doesn’t matter if they died in their series because they are put into the fight as the rule i posted says.
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-so what are you even trying to say? that, “I” don’t get it? because i have literally showed you the factpile rules and have never contradicted them.
@Mike
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And by the way, have you even noticed you’ve been jumping from thread to thread, quoting my posts in the wrong ones along the way?
does it matter? nope, but i’ll be more careful in the future.
”-it’s all i can do and have talked about before. it’s just sad that these guys mass lobbied for an award with so many unresolved and untalked about issues that are in current books along with the WoT series having it’s last book in january and sot having another in august. talked about calling it the “complete” wot vs the “complete” sot. but that might need to be a few years down the line since sot might go on for a while(there’s at least one book coming out in august, a prequel book sometime this year and another planned because of a three book deal with TOR that may or may not include the prequel).”
You also fail to mention that we waited for at least a year for the Omen Machine to come out to see the validity of several of your theories and found 3 of them to be seemingly contradicted. Just because something MAY or MAY NOT happen doesn’t mean we should wait just to satisfy your own sense of an unbalanced, unjust award. WHICH AGAIN, I will state that I adamantly disagree with you about all of that.
The bottom line is that everything that could have been was discussed Mike. You can spout off as much as you like about things not being discussed, which again IS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT! If YOU didn’t bring it up in 4500+ comments before now why in the hell should anyone care now that you are crying foul after the award is given? It’s idiotic and childish to say the least, and really we gave you enough time to prove your claims and you failed to do so. It’s that simple.
“and really we gave you enough time to prove your claims and you failed to do so. It’s that simple.”
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That cannot be QFTed enough.
“You also fail to mention that we waited for at least a year for the Omen Machine to come out to see the validity of several of your theories and found 3 of them to be seemingly contradicted. Just because something MAY or MAY NOT happen doesn’t mean we should wait just to satisfy your own sense of an unbalanced, unjust award. WHICH AGAIN, I will state that I adamantly disagree with you about all of that.”
-3? you mean richard consciously controlling his magic? because even though he can’t cast like zedd willy nilly it was still proven outside of that book needing to come out that he can cast whenever he wants in any situation he would be in on factpile. the other 2 i have no idea what you are talking about.
-we also waited for a wot book to come out if you forgot also. so waiting for information was part of both sides AGREEMENT that we made, and stopping it now with only one more installment for wot and all the new things in the next sot book is just stupid.
-there is no may or may not happen when it comes to events happening in the wot and sot next books either, well, unless all books before hand were lying about what would happen.
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“The bottom line is that everything that could have been was discussed Mike.”
-i’ve literally pointed things out that weren’t buddy.
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“You can spout off as much as you like about things not being discussed, which again IS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT!”
-my fault? for what, not being able to convince idiots of what is proven and then that discussion taking up most of the thread and because of the mass against me getting tired of it, they mass lobbied the administrator to get an award because they were tired of dealing with me? yeah, my fault as much as anyone elses. but nice to see you recognize that things weren’t brought up and by your own opinion is against the factpile rules also. imagine that, finding in the main opponents opinion that the award should not have been given via factpile rules…….
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“If YOU didn’t bring it up in 4500+ comments before now why in the hell should anyone care now that you are crying foul after the award is given? It’s idiotic and childish to say the least, and really we gave you enough time to prove your claims and you failed to do so. It’s that simple.”
-why should anyone care……oh, i don’t know…….maybe the rules of the site and all.
-so the rules of the site are idiotic and childish? or me bringing them up and how they weren’t followed is childish?
-i did not fail to do so, i did prove my claims. you guys not seeing it is what made it go on so long(and yes i know this is what you say about my argument, which is why it went on so long).
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-
-this is akin to a thread being debated solely about the two people’s speed for so long that one side lobbies for an award before strength is discussed; it’s just an example of how pathetic those that supported it and knew about all of this are.
“-you must be liberal because you continue to get the term “fair” wrong. ”
-
… what? What does this even mean? I don’t even… Maybe Goodkind’s “HURR DURR COMMUNISM BAD” political statements are getting to you?
”-my fault? for what, not being able to convince idiots of what is proven and then that discussion taking up most of the thread and because of the mass against me getting tired of it, they mass lobbied the administrator to get an award because they were tired of dealing with me? yeah, my fault as much as anyone elses. but nice to see you recognize that things weren’t brought up and by your own opinion is against the factpile rules also. imagine that, finding in the main opponents opinion that the award should not have been given via factpile rules”
As usual you misunderstand me and then further make an implication I am not making. So first and foremost let me make my position on this matter even more clear since you apparently are hellbent on putting words in my mouth. I do not, in any way, shape, or form, agree with you that information pertinent to this award hasn’t been discussed, AND the potential information that could be garnered in the next installment of either series will have any effect in changing this award. BY MY OWN OPINION, this award should have been given and I went over all the Factpile rules to show you why. BUT, and here is the key point here, the things you disagreed with me about in that particular post WERE DEBATE RELATED! ……..On a debate site!……Let that sink in a little bit….
…..If you were incapable of getting your point across for whatever reason (and, yes, I know you think that practically everyone that disagreed with you is an idiot because of “insert stock Mike reason here” but it is also possible you are simply wrong) IT. IS. YOUR. OWN. FAULT. You think the reason for that is one thing. WoT and seemingly everyone else thinks another. BUT the point is you were either wrong (which is what I say), you were outdebated (also true for me), or you were incompetent at debating within the confines of what YOU presented. Is it possible that Admin gave into Mob Rule in spite of logic and reason? Perhaps, even if I disagree, BUT you are the only one who thinks so and Admin seems content to not give his opinion other than rooting for SoT and giving the award to WoT. But again, this is a debate site, which deals with facts, true, but it also deals with the logic created in dealing with the claims derived from those so called facts. I found the holes in your logic using your own facts, exploited them, and WoT got the award because I debated against you (among all the others who did similarly as well). The bottom line is, if you feel pertinent information wasn’t discussed (which again I disagree with) then it is your own fault for not bringing it up before the award was given. It is that simple. It isn’t our fault for lobbying for an award everyone else besides you thinks is justly given, nor does that even remotely point to Mob Rule being satisfied despite logic and reason.
So in any event, if you wish to reply with your typical contrary retort that’s fine Mike, but I just want it to be clear why I think WoT got the award even though I think I’ve been plenty clear already. I’m just not going to respond to any more of your prattling here…
“-i’ve literally pointed things out that weren’t buddy.”
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I have not seen any new argument aside from a brief discussion of The Omen Machine and then back to the old points of contention.
It’s never Mike’s fault apparently, his logic is infallible.
“Or are you really saying that if Rand dies in the next book, then his corpse should have to fight Richard over in “Rand al’Thor Vs Richard Rahl”?”
…
“-universe battles take what is current incarnation to the “t”, individual battles………..”
…
“2. Battle Incarnations
All combatants are considered to be at their current incarnations, or most recent incarnation prior to death and/or incapacitation that would prevent them from engaging in battle at optimum efficiency, within their own continuities unless otherwise specified by the battle’s scenario.”
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Sorry for bumping a decided thread but I thought I needed to ass emphasis on Mike’s lack of reading comprehension. I bolded it.
*add
I wonder when/if it’ll ever be safe for the Civil War to be unlocked again.
For that matter, when will we be sure AHEM will be back to the site, for that matter?*
1.) When Murtagh gets a good match?
www.cracked.com/blog/8-stupid-arguments-that-internet-debates-always-devolve-into/
I see that all of you are WoT experts, however I just recently started reading it. I do however have quite a bit of knowledge about the SoT. Allow me to illustrate a few things, depending on the severity of the threat in general, Jagang would consider joining Richard in a weary alliance against the WoT threat, however you need to bear in mind the ability of a Dream Walker, they can immediately seep into the minds of anyone who isn’t protect by the Ancient Rahl Oath of Fidelity, or Devotion. So, bear in mind the ability of a Dream Walker. They are able to slip in between the folds of thought within fractions of a thought. With this in mind, Jagang would be just as deadly, if not deadlier in this regard to Richard and his natural War Wizard affinity. However, that is not the only reason that I would throw my hat in favor of SoT. You see, in the SoT series Wizards are not just gifted in the sense that they can project their han in Additive and Subtractive ways. Wizards in the realm of SoT are able to use Emblematic Constants, for example, a number of glyphs, and runes can be used to heal, separate someone from their gift, and even kill wizards like Richard if the symbols/mathematics equated.
–See Confessor for details
Pillars of Creation, granted that the Pristinely un-gifted were able to bypass magic mainly for a number of reasons as it didn’t exist for them, an ability that was subject to cause immediate death could in fact kill them. However by no means were they invulnerable they are able to being killed, it’s just that they are a broken link in the line of magic.
Prophets, these wizards like Nathan Rahl, and Warren are both Wizards of Prophecy. Meaning they are able to discern the ebb and flow of time by visualizing and writing down the flow of events from the future in order to classify true forks, from false forks and determine the best course of action within the line of prophecy itself. With this knowledge in mind they would be able to see the flow of events and give Richard the information to be decided by him, or those who the prophecy was meant for.
The Temple of the Winds, this by far is as deadly as the Boxes of Orden. Mainly due to the fact that a number of magical objects were stowed away there for the safety of the world. However the Temple itself has proven that it is as much a deadly tool because of the knowledge it gave Richard when he visited it. When he first entered the Temple of the Winds he immediately knew everything there was to know about the past, present, and future. As well as how his Gift worked, if Richard had all the knowledge of the Temple of the Winds. And he saw himself as the only driving force that could turn the tide in such a war, Richard would probably trade all that knowledge. for his life in order to either drive the enemy back to their world, or destroy the other side. Or even restore the subtractive side to Wizards of the Old World, and New World. In any effort he would probably give the people the restored link of magic to humanity if the crisis became severe enough.
Mord-Sith, Mord Sith have the ability to appropriate the gift of enemy gifted in such a way that they can gain elements of the gifted to be turned into a weapon against the perceived threat that they encounter. The Mord Sith have shown a brutal resolve to defending the Lord Rahl and ability to think on the fly that is very astonishing/humorous to read.
The Peoples Palace: The entire structure is a manufactured Spell-Form the likes of which acts in such a way to amplify any Rahl who inhabits it to such a degree that is astonishing. How this works is that while many people live and work within the palace in itself, their life-force acts as an amplifier that can increase the power of any Rahl within it. While at the same time this works as a sword to greatly diminish any gifted who enter or visit upon the structure by greatly buffering their ability to use magic.
Mriswith, For use as weapons against the wizards of New World, they are serpent like creatures that wear a cloak that can make them or other wizards with both sides (additive and subtractive) of the gift blend entirely with their surroundings. This cloak also makes the wearer undetectable by those with the gift, making everyone vulnerable to attack. Mriswith carry a three-bladed knife called a yabree in each hand to disembowel their victims, who never see them coming. They are lightning quick, fierce in fighting and relentless in killing.
Chainfire, even if you took Orden out of play by god you made the mistake of allowing Chainfire to be pursued.The Chainfire spell is one of the most powerful spells of all time, causing what is known as a Chainfire event. It uses Subtractive Magic to remove all traces of its victim from existence, from other peoples’ memories of them to physical evidences like tracks. Its effects are so extensive that Chainfire has the potential to unravel reallity.
There is a book of the same name that instructs on the use of the spell.
It removes all memories of the victim from everyone’s mind, except someone touching the Sword of Truth at the time of the Event, or involved in the creation of the Chainfire event.
It replaces memories that deal with the victim, making it seem as if similar events occurred without that person’s presence (Example: instead of Nicci using the Maternity spell on Kahlan to capture Richard, she remembers it as her simply overpowering Richard on her own). In situations where the victim’s absence would have made the event impossible otherwise, the others simply don’t remember the event (Example: Cara has no memory of how Richard got to the Temple of the Winds, or why they went to the Mud People at the end of that book).
It erases all text in Prophecy mentioning the victim.
Because of the contradictions between reality, it begins to unravel life and reality, causing the eventual destruction of reality.
The Chainfire event also acts as mind-influencing effect, causing anyone who sees the victim to immediately forget them.
As revealed in Phantom, those who are the victims of Chainfire have their own memories destroyed as well; in the case of Kahlan Amnell, this means that she will never be able to remember who she is or who Richard is ever again
So in essence by removing the power of Orden, I give this round to the Sword of Truth. Sorry but the Wheel of Time is screwed with this being allowed.
It’s nice to see new people at the Pile, but all of this has been covered. Chainfire may not have been argued, but it also may have been. I can’t remember, the fight went on so long. I would have to ask, though, why SoT would destroy itself along with WoT. Even in that, if SoT did that to an important WoT character, then that character could destroy entire cities with impunity. Sorry, but over 5,000 comments have led to the conclusion that Wheel of Time wins.
First a bit of advice, if you add a page brake or a ‘-’ between points it is much easier to read.
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Jagang: Isn’t he dead?
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Prophets: Most prophesy is difficult to understand by non-prophets, and there is no guarantee that it would pertain to the war.
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Ungifted: while potentially dangerous to chanellers, Aes Sedai would have warders, asha’man are trained fighters, so the ungifted would only be a major threat a Red Sister on her own or something.
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Mord Sith: Also a potential problem, but only if they can reach channelers. Warders and soldiers would protect them, again only a major threat to isolated channelers.
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Temple of Winds: Didn’t Richard move it somewhere or something else? I know others have said it is relatively hard to get in.
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Mriswith: Would be a major threat, but channelers and warders would be able to sense them like the gifted or darkspawn. And they would have to get to the WoT armies without the benefit or silphs.
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Chainfire: If it destroys reality then both sides would loose.
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While SoT is powerful, they do not have a very good counter to WoT’s mobility and sheer number and power of channelers. WoT can appear almost anywhere and cause an earthquake, rains or fire, and utter devistation.
@Harbinger
Hate to say this, but if you wanted to make an intro, you could have gone with Alagaesia vs Sword of Truth or even the Cartoon Network Civil War back when it was opened.(I’d rather not get started on arguments because as far as I’m concerned, the Cartoon Network Civil War >>>x1000>>>this match overall, even though this match went to expand on the Badass Creeds for Wheel of Time, really!*
Either that, or the overall well of Badassery went dried up on the site, lately.
1.) (Councilor Aelfinn, regardless of how you’d feel about it, I mean no offense intended!)
“Alagaesia vs Sword of Truth”
Somebody please do this. Alagaesia needs a match.
“Somebody please do this. Alagaesia needs a match.”
.
I believe that it was already posted. In fact, I was the one who suggested it, almost three years ago.
.
www.factpile.com/3684-sword-of-truth-vs-alagaesia/
none!
the natural 20 beats all exept chuck norris. and ahem you took our jobs!!!
@AHEM
Shall we revive the fighting between Alagaesia and Sword of Truth in that case?
Also, know that I have no qualms backing up Haseo against Eragon between you and me, alright?
the winner is natural 20!nothing beats natural 20 exept for chuck norris or non-scientist tom cruise
@AHEM: Just found that out.
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@CC: I’ll be against you then. Though I’m sure you have an advantage, probably having read both series’. Does Haseo have magic?
is heso a male or female?
just curios
@Epic
I studied the dot.hack universe, if we’re talking ‘purely’ current incarnations for both, odds are good whether or not Haseo can use spells will be rendered a very moot point, more moot than whether or not someone could get the killing curses or Sectumsempra to hit a WoT Myrdraal or not.
If we’re talking Haseo being permitted access to just about every stinkin’ power he ever came across in both the G.U and R:X eras, then its not so much a moot point that you can’t answer so much as an outright yes to the matter!
Of course, all 8 of the Morganna Factors to access powers from would only be needed if Eragon gets access to all the Eldunari and the true name of the language of Alagaesia itself, among other things.
We have a VMA for discussions back at the topia, I’d link you but I’m currently cut off ATM!
It’s funny this is still being posted on
@Primux
I know. T_T
If only the Civil War didn’t wind up dead…
This match is settled, there is no reason to continue exhuming and molesting its rotting corpse for no other reason than to lament.
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Respect fo da dead people.
@Master Sarge
Fair enough in there, T_T
Honor the dead!
Man what caused this t be the most commented page and not get locked???(rhetorical) Anyway may this thread rest in peace and……………….*Last*
No. You will never be last. Someone more deserving must be last, whoever that may be.
@Councilor Aelfinn
Let General Blood-Dancer do the honors, please?
Last.
@Captain
Didn’t I say to let the General do the honors?
Last again. :p
Enough.
Link didn’t work for me.
Curse you! Take your last spot, if it means so much to you.
~
/leaveinswirlofcape
Not the cape swirl! But it looks like… I’m the Last of Us.
Only admin saying the word “Locked” will ever be “last” in this thread, so will you all just stop?
I’m just having fun. It’s not like I’m messing with an on-going debate.